Big problem with inverter grounding! No Tesla charging?

[@peterrock2838]

I hate to say it, but I love when you have issues because I learn more about solar installations from you and Murphy. You have great enthusiasm and you are very good at troubleshooting. Thank you for leaving all the info in your videos. I love it! For me - I would not connect to a common/shared earths ground. I would hammer in another ground rod and separate by a good distance regardless if I used it for this application or not. I would try a resister of some sort rather than a straight wire jumper. Also, check to see if you still have a pure sine wave output after using the jumper or resistor... Not that I know anything. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

[@howardadams4072]

I went Victron Multiplus 3 years ago and never looked back. Solid equipment and well supported. Go bite the Victron bullet.

[@harrycrawford8517]

The reason that the negative is ground referenced in most countries was to reduce the risk of electric shock originally (prior to the introduction of RCD units in the 1980’s). Referencing one of the phases to earth in a single phase system means you can only get a shock off one of the wires on the single phase (not from either just from one). The introduction of RCD units added an extra layer of safety by allowing interruption of the supply if any current flows from the unreferenced wire on the single phase to earth at any point before the MEN link in the supply (usually as you say in the supply junction box). Having unreferenced single phase is not unsafe, it is just less safe, and in some cases more safe. For higher phase voltages such as 220/240 it is less safe, but for 110 volt with a split phase (120° AC) it is safer because each output is only 55volts when a connection through your body to the mid point earth is made. That is why industrial site equipment in the UK uses split phase mid point earth isolation transformers to drop from 240volts to 120volts with a mid point earth, and isolating the supply in the same unit. Personally I would not use any AC power supply at 220volts unless it has an RCD right at the source (at the inverter in your system). I think you should consider adding one that is plugged in the inverter outlet before anything else. In my last comment on your last video I explained I had not linked the negative and earth on my inverter with an actual solid connection but had instead used a 1000ohm resistor. This was done for a reason, firstly it protects the inverter as the maximum power the resistor can pass is about .2 to .3 of a watt, and secondly it provides the reference to earth needed for the RCD to work reliably. It is true that you can detect the voltage on your inverter secondary if the earth is linked. This will be true on any inverter except an isolated secondary inverter (such as a low frequency inverter). Low frequency inverters use a large transformer on the DC side and generally the output of that transformers secondary winding is not connected to the inverter chassis. So is the reference to earth on the DC side dangerous? It is no more dangerous than touching any of your garage earth points, the garage metal frame, or anything else that is touching earth since that is what you have connected it directly to with your link. So I would say it is not. The use of the resistor in my system was a safeguard for peace of mind but is based on an actual product available for off gridders in North America and Canada. It is sold at high street retailers anywhere where ICE generators are sold to allow the use of the generator on a hook up to a property that uses the same type of earth link (MEN test) circuitry in the main power box as is present in the Tesla EVSE unit. I wouldn’t feel safe having a direct link (without the resistor) as I know that it will trigger an RCD but won’t pass a lethal current.

[@emmanuelyazbeck6963]

Hello. Can you help me please with my above inquiry? I’d really be appreciative

[@fokcuk]

What sort of resistor did you use?

[@statonra]

I was just testing the same thing with an inverter, which is why I found this video. I ended up connecting neutral to ground and it worked fine. I don't think having AC on your batteries is a problem so long as they are protected from being touched.

[@henvan8737]

I am in sunny Melbourne. Just checked my MPP PIP5048GK inverter charger. It also uses split phase output drivers and when I measure the neutral its hovering at 84volts AC active at 146 voltage AC (230volt AC output) So I used a ground clip neutral to ground. I see about 14 mili amp float current. It had no affect on the inverter operation and the DC (Battery ) terminals did not have any change in AC volts basically zero. I will follow one of your earlier contributors and install a separate earth stack for my off grid system. I have 5kw of panels with two strings of 9 panels. The Pip 5048GK has a high DC input up to 500volt DC input. I also have the 3x Pylontech US3000 lithium battery packs. Total 10kw of battery storage. The nice feature of the pip5048GK is that it can operate without a battery as long as the solar panels can provide the power required. It means the inverter can deliver the load and the battery can be in float mode. Saves wear on the batteries.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Wow, that sounds like a great setup you have there. Thanks for sharing.

[@bluejeanvanlife8627]

I had this same problem with charging my volt from an inverter. I bought one of those enclosed outlet boxes with a 3 wire cord on it, I snipped the ground from the cord to the outlet inside the box, then connected the outlet ground to the outlet neutral and so the inverter ground is not connected to the inverter neutral, only the outlet neutral is connected only to the outlet ground. I plug this outlet into the inverter then plug my car charger into the external outlet and no more ground fault. And so the inverter ground is left as it is with this arrangement and maybe this will resolve the floating voltage on your battery input.

[@pfb3264]

That makes the most sense . 👍

[@Remigius0815]

You basically created an IT grid (vs TNS/TT/TN). It is necessary to create a reference for the Teals to detect - basically creating your own PEN by connecting N to PE and PE to actual Ground.

[@GregOnSummit]

Can you explain the difference?

[@craigandrew6409]

My chinese inverter/charge controller (all in one) very specifically says not to earth the inverter with the solar panels as it will cause current leakage to the inverter are the words it uses. To get around that I use a separate ground and grounding rod just for the panels. The panels really only need grounding in case of lightning

[@iainkay3630]

Two rods works. To avoid any leakage you should aim to keep the two rods as far apart from each other as possible. Ideally 10 metres or more.

[@vistagraphsnet]

I went off grid ten years ago and built my own home single-handedly. In June 2021 I bought a Tesla model 3 and wanted to charge it using the sun. Here is my setup: I have three 300 watt panels. I have a flat roof and leave them flat as I live in the middle of Oregon. (If I tried to point them south I would only get rays between 11am and 2 pm.) On a sunny day I get almost 800 watts. I feed this energy into a 60 amp MPPT charge controller keeping six 100 amp hour Battle Borne batteries charged. The key is using a 3500 watt inverter (pure sine wave). On a sunny day my Tesla wants 1500 watts if I set it to 12 amps and get 6 miles of range. On a cloudy day I need 1000 watts so I change the Tesla charging down to 8 amps and get 4 miles of range. I use thick wires so I do not loose current and protect batteries and inverter with 300 amp and 200 amp circuit breakers. If I tried to use 12 amps it would drain the batteries real quick so I keep it at 10 or 8 amps and it charges for 14 hours a day. This actually is as good as if not better than someone on the grid using 120 volts AC. Make sure you use a bonding plug (connect neutral to ground) if Tesla won't charge. Some inverters don't need one.

[@Muppet_Interfector]

You could get an isolation transformer and use an MEN link on the load side of the transformer.

[@dayleedwards3521]

That rogue AC voltage is caused by the secondary AC bypass capacitor being connected to the DC negative jnside the inverter. These inverters are "split phase, each ac terminal goes from plus 115, to -115 volts at 50 Hz, there is no ground reference as such. To safely use this inverter requires that capacitor to be returned back to whichever split phase terminal you have grounded, and not to the DC negative. This is easy to do if you have confidence in disassembling the unit and identifying that component. The current involved is very low as you have discovered, therefore, you may find that simply grounding also the DC negative to the common ground will also work with no disassembly required. Your inverter housing is floating, its not connected internally to anything. This problem of rogue AC voltages is common with appliances that use common mode suppressor capacitors, where a capacitor from phase, and another from neutral are connected to the case, this then floating at half mains AC voltage. Certainly not worth spending $1800 to replace that inverter.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

I agree.

[@SciBee]

I agree too. These coupling capacitors are added for EMC reasons. You can proove that by measuring the resitance between case, AC and DC while all cables are disconnected. You should find something near or above 1MOhm. That 1MOhm resistor sometimes is in parallel to the coupling capacitors to discharge them in power off mode. Another proof is that your ~71VAC voltage breaks down to near zero as soon as you put any load on it.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

@@SciBee Absolutely. :)

[@neliosamch3195]

So it's not easier to buy the neutral bonding plug for $12.00 dollar's?

[@ebenwaterman5858]

@@neliosamch3195 Commercially available? If not he could make one. :)

[@awmmuc]

Great video. Here in Europe we have the same problem with the Tesla UMC in Norway for example. But, you could use some other mobile charger which have the ability to adjust it to work without ground. I am using my Juice Booster 2 with great succes in many countries where the umc is not working. You may want to give it a try. And many thanks for your content. From the manual "Ändern des Betriebsmodus (MODE) • Halten Sie die SELECT-Taste ca. 5 Sekunden lang gedrückt (bevor Sie die Fahrzeugkupplung am Auto einstecken oder bis 30 Sekunden danach). Alle LEDs leuchten kurz gelb auf, danach blinkt der aktuell eingestell- te Betriebsmodus gelb in schneller Folge und signalisiert damit Verände- rungsbereitschaft. • Stellen Sie den gewünschten Betriebsmodus durch Drücken der SELECT-Taste ein. Die Speicherung erfolgt nach ca. 5 Sekunden automatisch. Der gewählte Modus blinkt langsam gelb. Modus STANDARD Für den Betrieb in allen Ländern, ausgenommen UK, Frankreich und Norwegen. Modus UK/FR Wählen Sie diesen Modus zwingend zum Laden im United Kingdom und in Frankreich (begrenzt den Schuko-Stecker auf 10 A bzw. 8 A /14 A für GreenUp). Modus NORWAY Wählen Sie diesen Modus zwingend und aus- schliesslich zum Laden in Norwegen (stellt das Gerät ein für die Nutzung in erdungsfreien IT-Net- zen)." en.juice-world.com/juice-booster

[@MultiOutdoorman]

Its a neutral to earth bond / reference that the charger is looking for, As you are not connected to the grid where the neutral is connected to the center tap of the delta /star transformer, so your RCD / GFCI cannot trip . Solution might be a small consumer unit from the inverter with a bonded earth to neutral across the busbars, then connect your load(s) to a suitable circuit breaker. Test for earth loop impedance to be sure !

[@solarharvestfarm955]

Great topic. While I will read all the comments, I'll add some variables that may, or may not be relevant: My 2019 Magnum MS4448PAE will not charge my Chevy Volt or Bolt. However, I discovered this only occurs when the Magnum's load is light. When I turn on my resistive diversion load (water heater element) the Magnum charges both of my EV's just fine. This is an undesirable remedy as my diversion loads are successive, which is to say that if I'm plugging the car directly into my system, I've already reached my hot water capacity. Additionally, as I have two systems (48V and 24V), my old workhorse 1995 Trace SW4024 charges either EV perfectly regardless of the load imposed on this old inverter. While the solution may sound simple, (just use the Trace inverter instead of the Magnum), I have many reasons (primarily due to system balancing) that I had expected I would be able to charge the EV's through the Magnum. -- Steve in Wisconsin

[@henvan8737]

Your reply is not related to Andy's findings.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Interesting.

[@ElectricCarAustralia]

Great pickup as I hadn't thought to mention this as our Latronics inverter works fine charging the MG ZS EV. You will sleep better at night with the Victron 👍

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, absolutely. Thanks Greg

[@Wrenchen-with-Darren]

Let me add this, earthing- grounding, by code, is for lightning protection. While some people think that grounding is the holy grail of safty, others feel it's mostly a waste of time. There are some important uses. One, it makes these smart devices work. Second, it gives, current a path to flow, other than your meaty body, if there is a fault. Good luck.

[@budmartin3344]

You have what is called stray capacitance coupling between AC output of inverter and the cold side of the inverter. Your meter has 10 MOhm input Z so it can easily show the AC reading from the stray capacitive coupling effect, the current will be really low and not enough to trip GFCI (GFCI will trip if leakage current is >5 mA). If you do the same test on for example the USB charger that is connected to the AC outlet utility, you will also see the AC reading between earth safety ground and the USB pins and and meter shield. Some power supply will also have very small coupling capacitor (in pF range) between hot side and the cold side in order the pass EMI test. My VICTRON Phoenix inverter (12V 1200VA) is shipped with Neutral not connected to the chassis Ground, you have to open up the unit and move the jumper wire to bonded the Neutral and Ground, (similar setup for my MPP Solar) this Inverter then becomes your main power panel with Neutral bonded to ground and the ground must be connected to the Ground rod juts like in your house. BTW, some of these cheaply made Inverter will blow up if Neutral is connected to chassis ground which is connected to the cold side circuit ground. Mike Holt Videos are great for learning about US NEC system: kzbin.infovideos

[@dreupen]

For a closed inverter system I don't think earth ground is necessary. It does proved lightening protection, but for safety bonding of all devices, the earth rod connection is not needed. Recall that for the grid, power station actually use earth ground as a power return to the station whereas an inverter provides both potentials.

[@peterpetersen6024]

Great video again! Here are some thoughts, don't take them for granted: If you build a pure IT-Net without bonding "N" to ground, you should use an IMD/Insulation Monitoring Device/"Isolationswächter". Because an RCD will not trigger, it monitors the ungrounded system between an active phase conductor and earth and gives some security. Especially when using it in the garden, where water can shorten the system to ground. If you want to build a local TN-C-S system, you need to ground the battery-side also. These 70V come from a Y-capacitor in the inverter, which suppresses high-frequency distortion. It connects the primary and secondary side of the inverter and shifts the potential of the battery-side. But I don't know if all this cheaper inverters can work in a configuration, where the DC side is grounded too. Most of them are constructed for an IT-Net. Last thought: You should use an "Allstromsensitiven" RCD, which means it can detect DC too. A normal AC-RCD can be blocked by overlapping DC current. I think in Germany it's mandytory to use this types of RCD in photovoltaic-inverter systems. Great work so far, like to see charging your Tesla in a safe and solar way.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Peter, great comment and tips!

[@andresgodinho]

There are a lot of comments here already but i think this Will help... When the power suplier delivers power to you, they have phase and neutral Wire... The neutral Wire is created at the high voltage to low voltage transformer house or on those pole Transformers... They just conect One of the output legs of the transformer to a ground rod that they drive into the ground. And that creates the neutral Wire that comes in the low voltage lines to your house. You should try to conect One of the inverter outputs to a diferent ground pole that should be at least 20 meters away from your main earth rod...that should emulate what they do at the transformer houses or the Transformers that get mounted in poles... Hope you see this because i had the same problem and that is how i fixed it.

[@colinbeckitt9495]

I totally agree with decoupling the 2 system neutrals / earths by using a separate earth rod on the island network. I am not an electrician but totally understand the need to isolate the 2 supply networks (Off-grid + Grid). I have 2 island networks + Grid and each network has it's own earth and are all completely decoupled. Works perfectly and safe. Although Andy's system is very low powered

[@andresgodinho]

@@colinbeckitt9495 if you have a three phase power delivery, you have to create your neutral Wire in this way. 3 phase systems don't need a neutral. They create the neutral (in Portugal they call it the service earth) and then they create the earth (protective earth)... These two have to be at least 20 meters apart (portuguese rules).. this is the best way to make a safe system without AC voltages on the DC lines

[@Sylvan_dB]

The tesla has no need for an actual ground. Having multiple grounds in an electrical system can be dangerous, so you should not do it without understanding the ramifications.

[@andresgodinho]

@@ursodermatt8809 i'm talking about Portugal. I have 3 phase power delivered to me and they have 3 phase wires and 1 neutral Wire... When they inspect your electrical wiring inside your house they demand that you create your Protective earth and they test resistance between their neutral and my Protective Earth to see if they are in the values that they want.

[@andresgodinho]

@@Sylvan_dB the grounds are all the same. they are rods driven into the earth... and you go and charge any electric car in a place with no ground wire and then tell me if it charges...

[@bobschieble5737]

Hi Andy you need a low frequency inverter,it has an output transformers that isolates the dc from the ac.Hi freq inverters don't isolate the high voltage dc .This dc goes into an H bridge dc to ac output. When you connect one side to ground your getting stray voltage,. I would use an isolation transformer on the output ,then you can safely connect the neutral side to earth ground.Rember your high frequency inverter has 360 vdc going into the output bridge any high side leakage to ground will be fatal! !! Thanks For Yuri Time.

[@willrobertson826]

Well I learned something from this .my trace must have bonding because my gfi receptacles all work normally .but you got me checking grounding.as a point of concern I separate grid grounding from solar off grid system .i did this to stop frying invertors from lightning strikes.surges coming in on grid ground and looping thru invertor ground havnt had a lightning strike fry anything since I separated grounds

[@defjamsgreen]

Have you tried connecting the clip wire to the green ground , but disconnect the green from the inverter . Connect clip wire str8 to the green ground wire and see what it does . Props to you that it may work on the Tesla charger . You might can invest in a low frequency- transformer- inverter .

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That does not make a difference as I tried that before I connected earth to the rod.

[@campingsequoia4455]

Solar Dump Hot Water Heater? How to divert your extra energy to hot water heater once your batteries are full... great video idea, I think you are the exact person to figure out the best way to do this and make a great video about it. Do I need a Voltage Sensing Sensor and a DC to DC Solid State Switch connected between my Charge Controller and my Batteries? Thanks in advance!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You can just use the Victron Battery Monitor. It has a relay contact and can be programmed to a certain voltage. Once you battery reaches this threshold, the relay kicks in and connects you hot water heater until the voltage goes under a certain point again.

[@mjp0815]

Keep the current setup, but protect yourself by adding an RCD breaker between the earth bonded inverter and the car lead. So now you have the car lead earth directly connected to earth. The car lead neural connected through the RCD neutral, and the car lead live trough the RCD live, now you are safe again.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Watch the next video ;)

[@mannyfragoza9652]

You made me LOL when you were laughing saying you could watch the wattage on your phone all day long. I laughed because that's what i do for most of the day somedays.

[@mannyfragoza9652]

you can check out these monitors on amazon for Testing the AC outlets > TRC AECM20020-3-012 Electra Check Digital Monitor for All AC Power Sources, Black with White Face> *Southwire Tools & Equipment 40012S Receptacle Tester, Black * Surge Guard 44260 Entry Level Portable Surge Protector - 30 Amp

[@iainkay3630]

This will be an IT arrangement rather than a TN-S or TN-C-S that the inverter is producing. What the inverter is doing is actually unsafe though as the ground pin should not be going to ground. IT arrangements are safe because it’s isolated from ground. You should only ever have one class 1 item (anything with metal conductive parts) plugged in to such an inverter at any given time, or any number of class 2 items (double insulated). What you’re doing by essentially converting the IT to TN-S definitely isn’t safe particularly as you haven’t got a protective device to kick in (RCD or GFCI). Victron will have your back on this and have implemented it in a compliant way. It’s expensive but better to be safe!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that is absolutely correct. Thanks for pointing this out again.

[@thomasm784]

When using the Juice Booster 2 you can set "Earth Off" in order to charge the Tesla without earth. I guess it will also work in your setting.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Ah, that's a good tip. I didn't know the JB2 can do that. If the Tesla cannot see the MEN link it refuses to charge

[@colinbeckitt9495]

Hi Andy, I'm from Perth, Western Australia and also have an off-grid garage. I note that you are tying your island (off-grid) network to the GRID earth which is definitely not good. For a few dollars more, buy your own off-grid system earthing rod and keep everything isolated so you don't get the AC induction voltages seen here in the video. I checked my system for the same things you are experiencing here and both my off-grid inverters are correctly earthed with no induced voltages in anything (cases, load panel earth, etc.). Have you turned off the GRID supply Main Switch and done the same checks? I run a 4000W/16000W LF inverter for heavy loads (bore pump, air compressor, arc welder, etc.) and a little cheapy 3000W/6000W inverter (both pure sine) for lights, drills, saws, etc. and due to the high system power (>31kwh of battery (LiFePO4 + AGM + Supercapacitor). I needed proper earthing to safe guard against the possible >16000W of instant output. I have actually measured >14000W peak from the system so made sure by consulting an electrician, that my system wouldn't blow my arm off or kill me. My point, try to keep your off-grid completely decoupled from the Grid supply, including the earth.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Good info Colin. Thanks.

[@kevinmills5293]

@@MiniLuv-1984 good info? earth is earth. There is only one on this planet!

[@MiniLuv-1984]

@@kevinmills5293 There is only one Kevin Mills too.

[@kevinmills5293]

@@MiniLuv-1984 that’s not entirely true. I have an identical twin brother! LOL.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

:)

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

Most of the comments to this are wrong. These cheap inverters don't have (nor need) a true neutral. Rather than having a hot leg that's 240v and a neutral at 0v, they instead simply have two hot pins that are basically +120 and -120 each, adding up to 240 when combined. These inverters don't need to have neutral tied to grounded. They are in fact safer *because* their neutral is not grounded. Because neutral is not tied to ground ground there is no return path for current to flow from the hot leg of the inverter through your body back to inverter through ground. Because there is no return path for current, it's much safer to work with the electrical output from the inverter because it can't shock you from accidentally touching one of the wires. At 11:53 you say "In case of a problem inside the car and you have one of the actives touching the chassis of the car there would be no safety" This is not really true. People forget that the only reason a stray wire can shock you is because the ground you're standing on provides a return path for current to flow only because neutral is bonded to ground somewhere in the circuit. In this case since the neutral is *not* bonded to ground there is no return path for current to flow back to the inverter if you touched the car during a wiring fault. The voltage on the chassis of the car would only be respective to the second leg of the inverter. So unless you were holding the 2nd active wire in your hand and then touched the car there is no return path for current to flow. The "voltage" on the car isn't between the car and the ground you're standing on. It's between the car and the other active current carrying wire (Which you're not touching) As far as regulations: We have the same regulations in the US and we have the same issue not just with inverters but also portable generators. Get a small gas powered generator and plug your car into it: You'll have the same issue. These small inverters/generators don't bond neutral to ground because it's cheaper and actually safer because there's no shock hazard associated with touching one of the wires since the current can't flow through you and back to the inverter/generator through the ground. An easy fix for this is to simply add two 100k resistors: One between the "hot" leg and the ground pin, and the other 100k resistor between the "neutral" and the ground pin. The 100k resistors will not allow enough current to flow for there to be any shock hazard, but will allow the UMC to read a voltage between the hot pin and the ground allowing it to pass the ground check and charge the car. This is a common issue for EV drivers who want to charge their car with inverters or portable generators. Again: There is no safety concern here because even if the hot wire was attached to the chassis of the car since there is no return path via the ground it can't shock you. In fact: In some industries they use devices called "ground isolation transformers" which do exactly what your inverter is doing: They remove the link between neutral and ground to make it *safer* for crews to work in damp conditions outside. The neutral to ground bond is not needed for safety reasons and it in fact creates a shock hazard because now the entire earth becomes a return path for electrical current. Removing this return path actually makes things safer. However to be very sure: You can still use the GFCI "safety switch" in addition to this. The GFCI does *not* need the neutral to be tied to ground to work. The GFCI does not test that the current flow to ground, it tests that current flows *anywhere* besides the neutral pin. It doesn't care if the current flows through ground or some other path. Tying the active pins to ground via a 100k resistor is much safer than tying them directly, because the resistor makes it impossible for any dangerous current to flow. Without the resistor you create a potential shock risk that didn't exist before. Or of course you can just go with a Victron (I haven't mentioned that before already have I? haha) which is built to handle all of this setup. :D

[@dayleedwards3521]

One of my uses in life is the repair of inverters, interestingly I have the same inverter here, brought in for repair. Just now have had a look at this in detail. They are a generic design, all based on a ST micro doing the SPWM to the output H bridge, and overload monitoring. These come by many names, but I think the OEM was the Changi company in Shenzen province. These inverters appear to be very well made using high quality components and fibreglass PCB material, perhaps the only downside is the use of surface mount components, but they all use these now. The HV AC output side is electrically isolated from the DC side , the SPWM section is powered via a small SMPS, the low voltage overload protection and low voltage shutoff signals are isolated too via optocouplers. There is no galvanic connection from the primary DC side to the HVAC side, this is why either AC terminal can be connected to ground without any fire and flames. The correct way then to do this is to bond the inverter case, the battery DC negative , and one side of the AC output to a common ground. This effectively creates a small MEN system in isolation, preserving all safety aspects and retaining compatability. This will remove that rogue AC voltage as well.

[@jasondevine6014]

+1 yes this

[@petervanbeekum]

@@dayleedwards3521 yes, this is the way. For me the connection of ground to battery negative was missing and I had the stray AC voltage on the DC input just like Andy. When I then also connected the ground to battery negative the stray AC voltage was gone. I don't have a Tesla to test it on unfortunately :(

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Jeremy, great comment. Well, I cannot use the floating 240V to charge the vehicle even it it would be safer. There is no way the EVSE would turn on. I will use an RCD for the installation so I need N linked to PE to make this work.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Right. That's why I suggested using the 100k resistors. That's a way to avoid the "floating voltage" issue. With the resistors in place the EVSE will work. It's an old trick that EV drivers have been using for years. (They even sell pre-made "grounding plugs" for portable generators that have them preinstalled) Using resistors instead of directly tying one of the active pins to ground ensures that no significant current can flow which reduces the likelihood of a wiring fault causing a shock hazard.

[@jmaus2k]

Another idea. Get a grid tie inverter with limiter. Plug tesla to mains. Grid tie inverter reduces amount charger is pulling until main power is near zero. Ecoworthy is one brand.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's an off-grid-system. There will be no grid after all.

[@Sylvan_dB]

It sounds like a bit of capacitive coupling between the A.C. and D.C. terminals on the inverter. A high resistance may, or a suitable capacitor to ground will drain that low power A.C. from the D.C. side. The resistor will also conduct the D.C. which may or may not be a problem. If the D.C. side isn't grounded or if you can use a large enough resistor to not conduct too much D.C. to ground it should be fine. Are you supposed to ground one side of the D.C.? In the U.S. we are for grid connected systems and some equipment for that market does build in that D.C. ground bond. (I don't like it, but that was code years ago when I knew it.) Your Telsa charger does not need an actual ground, it needs only the neutral and ground terminals connected. (In other words, connecting neutral and ground terminal is necessary and sufficient, while the actual ground is neither necessary nor sufficient.) It may be that if you disconnect the inverter from the ground that you will eliminate that floating voltage, but I doubt it. Most likely the coupling is happening internal to the inverter and is simply some incidental capacitance between the D.C. and the chassis. Then you put A.C. on the chassis by connecting the chassis to the A.C. terminal. Your inverter might be intentional coupling or even a bond between the D.C. and the chassis, and you need to know that for each piece of equipment before you tie all your chassis ground together. If one vendor connects chassis to D.C. negative and another vendor connects chassis to D.C. positive and then you connect all the chassis together... The GFI (also known as GFCI) used in the U.S. does not need a ground nor a neutral to ground bond. They are purely differential devices - if the difference in current between the hot and neutral lines is too much, it disconnects the hot output. It is nice when equipment does not bond A.C. neutral to ground, but is designed to allow that bonding. That way the equipment can be used to provide backup power to the home and failover needs only switch the hot and leaves neutral and ground always connected to the home system as code requires. In that case the home system provides the neutral and ground bond, and it would be unsafe (and not code approved) to also bond it in the inverter (or generator).

[@gravelydon7072]

Does not need a ground or neutral bond? You better check again. That is how a GFCI knows when to trip. It cannot measure between just the two pins that normally carry the load. If you have a GFCI breaker in your panel, you will find a pigtail on it. That pigtail will go either to the ground or neutral buss bar ( depends on where the panel is in the scheme of things). If you push the test button on a GFCI breaker without the pigtail connected, nothing will happen. The circuit is not protected by the device as it should be. If it is a double pole 240Volt one and a leg goes to Ground, it will trip but not because of the GFCI normal pathway.

[@emmanuelyazbeck6963]

Hello. I have just faced the same issue. However my setup is different. I have three strings of 7000 wp each. They are connected to a three hybrid Deye inverters of 8000 w each. The letters are connected to a battery bank of 1000 ah. When the grid is on the Tesla charger works like a charm. However when the grid is off, then the Tesla charger throws this error: “insufficient grounding”. Would connecting the neutral phase to the ground on the connection coming from the load ports on the inverters and going to my electric distribution board solve the issue?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Depending on your country and regulations, you need to follow your local wiring rules. You probably should get an electrician in and get this checked as it is vital to have the right setup and connections. Europe and AUS use the M.E.N. link in the meter box or sub panel. But in an off-grid installation, it is a bit different and the right connection need to be made. I'm surprised the Deye don't have this build in. Or maybe it's not installed correctly. None of your RCDs will work either... better get this checked out.

[@colinbeckitt9495]

it would seem the popular choice is a ??$1200 Victron ?? - der you need at least a MultiPlos II 5k 48v due to your Tesla charger draw is about 2500W for several hours. I had a Victron MultiPlus 48v 3k which cost me a lot more than $1200 and it couldn't handle 1650W - 1800W continuous for even 3hrs (kept doing thermal shutdowns). Andy, Victron is good but don't go by the apparent specs buy bigger or you'll regret the experience. For me the Victron 3k was an expensive and complete disappointment as it failed after

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It depends... watch the next video ;)

[@landonferguson7282]

I think the floating voltage is coming from the inverter, and going to the DC side of the inverter. Maybe add a big diode to the DC input side of the inverter, and see if the floating voltage disappears.

[@SVAdAstra]

I second the suggestion from Gabriel Orzeszko below: get a 3 KVA (or larger) isolation transformer. NOT an autotransformer, but a real isolation transformer with no electrical connection between primary and secondary. The secondary will now have no potential between either side of its output and earth ground. To be shocked, you would have to be in contact with both output terminals. Choose either output to be "neutral" and jumper it also to the ground terminal on the Tesla charger. That's now your MEN link. The leakage you are seeing definitely indicates a low quality inverter. I suspect there is capacitive coupling to the chassis.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

A transformer will work the best, that's correct. Or the Victron Inverter I have now...

[@MichaelEricMenk]

The EVSE that comes with Teslas in Norway have this ground check disabled. This is because over 90% of homes have TT or IT power. So there is no neutral power pin (Both are live ). So any EVSE that are being used in Norway can be used on the inverter in the video. The EVSE he had for the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV will most likely work.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Right. That's great info, thank you.

[@andrewwhittaker6622]

I just wired my giandel inverters as you would a standard house setup with MEN on the main earth link in meter box years ago never had any issues Should work an RCD in that config as well if required Just a standard domestic setup with an inverter and batteries And a cheap 3 light plugin tester to see if it's working as it should

[@dig1035]

Old school GFI now called GFCI in the hardware store (US NEC). They are the same.

[@johncooler7711]

Dear Andy, you created No. 1 battery, do not ruin your project with that sh.t immature inverter. Victron is expensive but rules and works flawlessly (I have 2pcs in split phase) and you have all under control. Use that black brick just for experiments or sell it. Create your AC network safely and systematically..... & charge your great & expensive jewel Tesla with care. Enjoy your channel. Daniel Slovakia

[@neliosamch3195]

Only what he need is the $12.00 dollars neutral generator to match that expensive victron device.

[@neliosamch3195]

@@ursodermatt8809 I have full confidence that Andy will be able to achieve his goal to charge a Tesla with cheap batteries, controller and inverter for less than $500.00 dollars. If you want to pay $5000.00 for the same results go ahead.

[@neliosamch3195]

@@ursodermatt8809 I tell you a secret but don't tell anyone. I have eight 60a cheap solar controllers for various years now and still working. 10 cheap 400w which perform better than the Canadian solars. 50kw of cheap lifepo4 batteries. And a 6kw lf cheap inverter. Yes, I already did and I can say than Andy isn't more happy than me because I am more frugal than him.

[@smdindustries3699]

Get the Victron it is correctly setup for the MEN system and depending which model you get have a internal relay that switches internal MEN in or out depending on if it detects a upstream MEN if you are using it with a normal AC input/ Bypass input. Ive got a MPP solar inverter that does a similar thing, acts as a UPS with bypass and internal relay that switches the internal MEN in if the upstream disconnects, not a isolated/ transformer unit either. Long term i will be moving to Victron also.

[@gravelydon7072]

Do you actually have 240 between live legs or is it a split phase 480VAC system there? In the US most homes have a split phase 240VAC system. The wires in a 4 wire system are L1, L2, N, Ground. If you have a 480VAC where you are, then the legs would be the same with L1, L2, N, and Ground. If it only is a 240VAC system, then you really have no Neutral, you have L1 and L2 only with a ground. Inside one of PowerJack's US inverters there is a connection between the chassis ground screw and the outlet ground pins along with a connection to the center tap of the transformer. That allows the GFCI receptacles that are hard wired to a panel to function properly when fed from the inverter. Push the Test button on one and it works. Reset, and the indicator light comes on saying all is good. Hook up one of the 120 Volt only units where you don't have the grounded system to Neutral and you can destroy the inverter. That is common on the High Frequency 120V units. As I have both types, I built a transfer switch box for use with one of the refrigerators. If plugged into the house and using power from it, it operates with the house Neutral and Ground. If it is being supplied by the 120V inverter, it uses the inverter Ground connection. If using the 120V side of the 120/240V inverter, it uses the inverter Neutral/Ground system. If you attempt to use the 120V inverter with a GFCI receptacle, it will not function. You will find some 120V inverters that have GFCI outlets and those have extra circuits in them that allow them to work.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's 240V floating between the two contacts, no split phase.

[@marco1862]

Try to connect the ground to the output in the inverter (neutral and ground pin) and not connect it to the chassis of the inverter it self. than measure again on the DC output. I think DC - is on the chassis what makes your connection to DC. You can also do this with A short extension cable outside the inverter.

[@NackDSP]

I didn't see any reason to connect any of my solar battery inverter system to earth ground. If the whole system is floating there should be no safety problem. Stand in a puddle and touch any single wire and not get shocked. So I connected the outlet ground terminal of my inverter to the neutral and all was well so the Tesla charger sees no voltage difference between its input ground an neutral wires and runs. Of course the other solution is to add an isolation transformer to the output of the cheap inverter. I think that is basically what the expensive inverters are doing.

[@1978jra]

Well yes floating system is safe, but there is a catch. Lets say that you are pressure washing your car with your solar system. What happens? Frame of the washer is grounded and booom! Your system is no longer floating even you think it is. Not a huge problem because there has to be two faults to this be dangerous. Even first "fault" is really easy to make.

[@solarandwind9442]

Hello deh am from the Caribbean, st Lucia the reason why u are getting the high voltage on the inverter side is the grown wire have to be on a separate grown rod

[@wloulittle]

Hi. Just saying, ground is ground wherever you connect the wire. What you don't want to have is a floating ground as many of the Chinese inverters do. Measure your voltage from your ground terminal on your inverter to each side of your battery lead and you will probably see a voltage similar to what he is experiencing here. One way to cure this is to have a power transformer with a 1:1 winding large enough to support the power of your inverter. The output side of the transformer would need to have a center tap so that you can ground that terminal to Earth ground / neutral. The only problem is by the time you buy a transformer big enough to do the job you could buy one of the Outback power systems or a magna sine system that is capable of 230 volt 50 hertz European standard or 240 volt 60 Hertz American standard.

[@TheRmenke]

I charge the Tesla Model 3 and a Nissan Leaf with MPP Solar LV2424. A gasoline powered inverter generator had ground faults and would not work until I installed a small resistor between neutral and ground. The generator had two outputs. One to car, and the other to cord with accessory box having neutral tied to ground via resistor. I believe it is a carbon 10K ohms. Just try a few from your junk box.

[@henvan8737]

You may actually be dancing around a more serious problem with your fix

[@offgridtruckerdude7133]

Well, the inverter you have is basically for use in a vehicle for powering chargers, and such. The victron is designed specifically for what you are wanting to do, off grid. 1200$ is actually very inexpensive, and on the low side for high quality inverters. You can't go wrong, and will be very happy in the end. And one more plus, is you will have the ability for more charging options.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

And it has 5 years warranty...

[@houseofancients]

that smile on your face :) makes me think of a series from my youth.. "love it when a plan comes together" ;)

[@williamvaughan1218]

I have the same problem trying to charge my brothers tesla of my eu2000i. I'm going to bond neutral to ground in my generator. I can not see what the downside would ever be.

[@millzee60]

I have a Victron Multiplus 3K and have just measured the AC voltage between the AC earth and the DC +ve and DC -ve. There is no AC voltage on either.

[@colinbeckitt9495]

Andy wants to charge his Tesla so needs at least 2500W for about 4hrs @ 40C so a Victron 3k Multiplus won't cut it. I agree with your NO AC leaks detected I have never come across his problem in my little Victron Multiplus II 3k or 4k LF Power Jack unit. I think he just needs to separate and decouple his earth.

[@SigmaWorksSW3D]

most of inverters have grounding problems, but what i did with my reliable power inverter was i linked inverters pcb to case as it was meant to be and all works

[@svtosca3371]

Get the Victron. Stunningly good stuff that lasts. I totally live Victron. They know their stuff and understand safety!

[@colinbeckitt9495]

Victron is generally great quality and technically up there but my biggest mistake was spending $2k on a 3000/6000W Multiplus II that could only run about 1700W in the WA summer @ 40C in the shed. Definitely over-priced and not exactly up to claimed specs (blew up running only 1625W for 4hrs). I replaced it with a Power Jack 4000W LF inverter (16000W peak) and it easily runs everything the Victron wouldn't and easily runs 2500W continuously for 12hours. I had to spend $470 to get the Victron FETS fixed and only got $850 selling it used. Paid $440 for my Power Jack so actual changeover cost was only $60. My PJ 4000WLF has been running daily for >2yrs with no issues and with supercapacitors easily starts and runs all our heavy loads the piddly Victron would just grunt and die trying. The Victron wouldn't even start the 9.2kw Fujitso split air-con which only draws 3500W at start-up yet they claim it can handle 6000W peaks. My PJ4000 will start that air-con even with the 2.2hp air compressor is running and ~180W of lighting and Beer fridge all on. Sorry just not a Victron fan...

[@xboxice2005]

I'm having this same Ground issue from my 3.5kw inverter using my Nissan leaf EVSE.

[@WimSchutten]

The victron convertor is great. Dutch of course.

[@ralph9987]

Do you the link to your heavy duty battery/welding cable please?

[@pritambissonauth2181]

Go for the Victron inverter. Safety first. I do not have sufficient technical knowledge to judge the Chinese inverters, but they usually take short cuts in their design, because they do not understand the implications and thus cut costs! I would like to see others who know, explain to us properly what is happening. An explanation not just based on economics but rather technical reasons for safety.

[@upnorthandpersonal]

It's because it's a generic inverter, and there are places where you do not want the connection between earth and neutral, TT earthing networks for example and when a floating supply is fine (like in a vehicle, which this inverter is intended for). It's easy to just get the adapter for this that creates the MEN link.

[@alexandergunda8916]

Try to use an ECLB ( FI-Schutzschalter in german) on the output - maybe, and only maybe, it could do the trick. I presume that you don't feel the potential because you are wearing flip flops with a rubber, insulating sole. It would be interesting how the Victron does it - I presume some galvanic separation between DC and AC - as it should be.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's called RCD (or GFCI in the US). I tested it and it actually works without the MEN link. I'm not sure why it triggers. It definitely should not. The Victron has got an MEN link built-in and has three output terminals L-N-PE. So this will work just fine.

[@jasondevine6014]

It does have isolation but it has some high value resistor between. It will be fine.

[@maxhopper502]

Victron to Chinese and now I’m back to victron. They sound expensive but they are worth it and you will end up paying the same over time.

[@JoeInBendigo]

Where are Victron Inverters made? (I know their head sales office is in the Netherlands)

[@mrzed6597]

@@JoeInBendigo Republic of India

[@reginaldjones9924]

I think the Chinese company Fangpusun makes and clones some Outback and Victron products.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

Make a short cable between the inverter and the Tesla cable with the MEN link in it. Otherwise see Dayle Edwards comment. Don't run out and drop $1200 yet. This has a simple solution. Thanx :)

[@colinbeckitt9495]

$1200 ha he needs at least a Victron 5000 so double that $1200, a MultiPlus II 5000 will cost >$2400 in Australia and that will only just do it. I had a MultiPlus II 3k48 and it continually dropped the ball and cut-out with only a constant 1624 - 1800W load in my shed at only 40C ambient and eventually blew up the FETS. Overpriced and over-stated. Tesla chargers pull about 2700W continuously so he needs to get a decent unit that can handle at least 3500W continuously in the 40c West Australian summer.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

@@colinbeckitt9495 Hmmm. Thanx for the tip. Info is GOLD. :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Watch the next video, boys ;)

[@peter7344]

Did you ever sort your 71v AC on your solar DC side of the circuit? If not is there any reason you don't link the negative common of what appears to be a totally floating solar DC system through to mains ground? Even to give some small protection to static build up during electric storm conditions? I realise a direct or close proximity strike it will all be kaput! If you have some sort of ground connection then your capacitive pickup of mains will be gone from all of your equipment. Your inverter will still need it neutral to ground earth link to allow the Tesla brick to be happy.

[@carlosferreira7757]

May i sugest a diode in that wire you plug in inverter? (white one ) im no eletcrician, but might work. Best regards from Portugal

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That won't work at all. What difference would a diode make?

[@carlosferreira7757]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think it will stop the floating voltage or feedback voltage that concerns you, anyway its just a thought ... good luck on solving that issue :)

[@dreupen]

Check out Renogy. I just installed the Renogy 2kW inverter charger. It has an automatic neutral-to-ground bonding switch while in inverter power mode but when using grid power, the neutral-to-ground is disconnected, which is correct. I paid less than $600 USD, but the unit works on 12VDC (sailboat) and inverts to 120VAC.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That only works in these hybrid inverters with bonding and automatic transfer switch. They have this relay which connects N to PE when on battery and open it when on grid power. I'm off-grid only.

[@pmacgowan]

So you connected the active or neutral to house earth to make the charger work ? Which one Active (blue) or neutral (brown) ?

[@pmacgowan]

Neutral to house earth ... ?

[@frankz1125]

Great vid. Here in Canada its called islandable. There is a few inverters that are equipped with this. Outback, Magnum, Aims, Triplite and a few more. The Aims may be cheaper then the Victron. Also if you plan on running the Tesla charger then I would go with a bigger inverter. Maybe a 5000w. Thanks for sharing

[@frankz1125]

@DJ Collins Photography Im not sure . I know some of the models I have seen it is an optional bonding wire. You can choose to use it or not. You will need to ask them about their options and models.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you, Frank. Great information. I'm not in a hurry with charging the vehicle. The next video will explain all that.

[@MrSchnickel]

i think if u just sand ur grounding rod it will make a better contact and work. good luck jan

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I thought about that but the contact to the rod is superb in any way. I measured from all kind of point and had 0 Ohm all the way.

[@friluftsguide]

Have you talked to Tesla in Norway most of houses has a it net. That’s more like what you have now. We hav seprat ground straight to earth. No link to the active leads. But we can stil charge Tesla or Nissan as I have.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

If you use a PEN wire over there that's N and PE combined so has the same effect as my bridge or an MEN link.

[@friluftsguide]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia no we ha L1, L2and L3 and L1+L2 make 230v orL2+L3 or L3-L1 an then we has ground as a separate system For some car this case trouble like the Renault Zoe it must be charge white a transformator that’s makes an local TN net

[@magicmanspaz]

Insulates ground wire through hole in the shed sheet, attaches to ground spike thats screwed to shed sheet with metal bracket and screw. hehe

[@kswis]

Victron should send you an inverter to review or at the VERY least give you a very decent discount... Though I'm sure the tesla would be fine to charge this way I'm sure posting the video for the world to see may void your warranty just cause they can be like that now and then, from what I've heard, regardless to be safe I agree with you

[@BastelPichi]

Do the link in the cable of the tesla charger...

[@nyneak]

it is effect of a lens flare. just like a sun eclipse, edge of cloud amplify the power

[@DazGeary]

Yes I agree, I noticed my solar output was allot higher on days with particular types of clouds.

[@reginaldjones9924]

Yep... Its also referred to as... Cloud edge effect

[@mgd09050]

The neutral/ground short is something I've seen done in videos where people try to charge their Tesla from a generator. Good work figuring it out for your set up! The nicer inverters like Victron Multiplus or Quattro have built-in grounding relays for this.

[@houseofancients]

look at the mpp solar , or deye/sunsynk/sol-arks

[@Sonnenschlumpf1]

I have an pip 5048 GK here in Germany. Behind the 230V Output I installed a RCD and I have no floting volltages between PE, battery or other equipment. The Inverter has only hotwire and neutral and I needed to connect neutral before RCD to PE. PE was connected to grounding rod. RCD works Like a Charm. I can only recommend installing a RCD! Victron Inverter ist very good equipment. But for double Cost. The 5048 MK is also very nice from mpp solar. You can cascade them like the victron.

[@houseofancients]

@@Sonnenschlumpf1 i had 2* mpp solar mti 10k. they are true 3 phase and i didnt have to do that

[@victorpatras1582]

@@houseofancients How did you connect the two mppt?

[@houseofancients]

@@victorpatras1582 they have a parallel module

[@1over137]

A visit to John Ward on KZbin reveals a few of the reasons the regulations are a bit picky, especially around EVs and islanded power. One thing to consider, if you have grid AC-In anywhere in the system, Should there be a grid fault involving the PME/NE conductor, ALL THREE conductors become live. An earth rod will fix that? Nope. Ground rods just aren't low enough resistance to handle that kind of fault current. It is still very likely the soil and ground around your rod is still dropping more than 70V, meaning all the exposed metal work will be 70V to earth and still lethal. A 3 pole transfer switch AND a separate local earth rod, and RCDs both sides should be enough for the inverter. Oh and a Neutral/Earth relay with the grid tie drops into island mode. For the EV... seek professional help, it is a special case because the car is insulated from the ground and the chance of latent high voltage is just too high.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, got this all sorted. The Victron Multiplus has a ground relay and the Tesla charges fine from it. The standalone inverters need a PEN link though.

[@1over137]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I got myself a Multiplus. Not wired it up yet. Need to do the tidy up first. There is some contention over if I'm allowed to event connect it's ACIn to the grid without violating some regulation.

[@henvan8737]

Red wire from your earth box to earth stack NAUGHTY" should be green and yellow. FAIL?

[@kevinmills5293]

I don’t suppose the electricity will mind.

[@Sirslayer_X]

you need to replace the inverter...ugghh!!! I'm using an Ampeak 2000w inverter with 3 outlets and the top outlet is a true ground setup but the 2 bottom are shared floating grounds. so i plug my sensitive appliances to the top outlet and everything else goes to the floaters.. take your shoes off and touch the back of the inverter, don't get mad at me when something happens

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, that's a good way any inverter should be internally wired. Most equipment will work with the floating 240V but some ground sensitive won't. I touched all wires and also measured currents. Nothing so far, but I'm still not happy with this solution.

[@gruntspeed]

If you add a victron inverter you can add a fix device and link everything to. View your data on the internet makes life simple. You need to have a bond between ground and neutral to be safe and a lot of these cheaper inverters don’t allow this properly. You will love the victron. Otherwise if you go with an axpert or must or something similar I believe they do it as well.

[@mrzed6597]

I think we all said in chorus that BUY A GOOD INVERTER ! :D For $600 you can buy a MPP Solar 5kW inverter. You can connect solar to it. It has a relay to bond E-N if it goes into off-grid mode. Victron is VERY overpriced. You can buy 3-4 MPP Solar 5kW inverter from the price of 1 Victron 5kW inverter. And you have to buy a stronger inverter because you will have constant high load. For 2-2,5 kW constant load 5kW inverter is better for long use.

[@JoeInBendigo]

Where can you get an MPP Solar 5kW inverter for $600???? The closest I find is $1200...

[@mrzed6597]

@@JoeInBendigo Write directly to them (sales, email in the bottom of there page). You can get an 5048MK/GK/MGX with shipment into EU with DDP (local store) for around $700 For ca $1400 you can have a hybrid MPI 5kW unit where you can also sell power to utility ! (EU certified under Voltronic Infinisolar Plus 5kW)

[@JoeInBendigo]

@@mrzed6597 No idea where you are, but both I and Andy form this channel are in Australia and referring to Australian $. Your $600 is now $700 and if you were referencing US$, that makes it AU$1200 including our GST - which is what I though all along.... so you can see why I responded with my question, because it "sounded like" you had found a 50% discount source....

[@mrzed6597]

@@JoeInBendigo Sorry for the misunderstanding BUT $ is US dollar, and not AU$ . Also unit price is ca $600. With shipping and VAT and TAX it is $700 (in EU). No 50% discount. It is the price for this unit if you buy DIRECTLY from them. And so you do not get a FAKE inverter. (yes there are fake MPP Solar inverters in some sites)

[@walterk8602]

I used my 8kw (2*4kw)mpp solar for 5 years and have had trouble free service. 1 year ago I replaced them with my 10kw (2*5kw) mpp solar so that I can charge my jag ipace at 7kw. I still use the 4kw inverters elsewhere.

[@amilasenarath5287]

Thanks ....

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Let's see, $1200 or a jumper lead...tough one. If you spend $1200 and buy the Victron, what guarantees do you have that you your batteries don't have a AC imposed on them as well? I wonder if this AC imposed on the batteries varies with load on the inverter and if there is a DC offset as well?

[@MiniLuv-1984]

@@ursodermatt8809 Andy measured 70VAC on the battery relative to his local earth.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

@@ursodermatt8809 That's good to know, what brand/model inverter do you have? I've been trying to figure out why there is an AC component ( Andy measured the AC at the input of the Inverter - not at the batteries if I recall correctly). And the info you just offered adds to my guess why the AC. I'm thinking that the sine wave currents demanded of the battery coupled with resistance of cables/batteries/connectors is resulting in these AC voltages he measured. If that is true, then higher loads on the AC should result in higher AC voltages on the inverter input terminals. (I've suggested Andy could check that). I now think that the better inverters store current in huge capacitors across the battery inputs and the cheapies skimp on these capacitors. Skimping on big input capacitors will result in sine currents from the battery rather than a more constant current from the battery. 35mV is an excellent result. Is that under load or just idling Urs?

[@MiniLuv-1984]

It just occurred to me that these sine currents will be at both 50Hz and the internal oscillator frequency...(they use 50kHz - 200kHz internally to create the 50Hz AC waveforms).

[@MiniLuv-1984]

@@ursodermatt8809 I agree Urs. If you want to buy cheap, be prepared to rip it apart diagnose and hope you can bring it up to spec with mods - whether that is to fix bad sub standard behaviour or to correct production flaws. There is another scenario, where you are experimenting and rather than spend the big bucks initially on something you are unsure you will need or unsure of its sizing and you just want to prove the concept with the intention of upgrading to good gear when you feel you have the system sorted. Ofcourse the danger with that is that you end up fixing problems that wouldn't exist had you got good gear to begin with.

[@rottweiler9535]

I have ran across this exact problem and found cheap inverters have no isolation between the battery and ac output, and have destroyed an inverter making the connection you made the solution was finding an isolated inverter, Meanwell makes the very inverter that you need and the quality is very very high. www.meanwell-web.com/en-gb/dcac-inverter just be sure to choose the correct dc and ac voltages. best of luck with your offgrid system

[@bostjantrancar9605]

U could use transformer 240v to 240v 3.5kw to make galvanic separation...like victron....

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, that would work. I still would need the MEN link though.

[@bostjantrancar9605]

Is easy secundar u have 240vac that is galvanic separated from inverter and two wires ....one conect with the ground and u get neutral other wire that is left is L....so u have now PE that is connected to N and L.... Just like in house elecrical sistem only u have inverter as source and galvanic separated....from battery/solar panels..

[@bostjantrancar9605]

And transformer is cheaper than victron inverter .....eventualy u will se that u did not buy right kind or not strong enought like i did at the end i have now two 5kw in parallel on 48vdc that run whole house 24/7 with 600Ah li ion battery....😜

[@DavidBTB]

Don't Tesla's have DC charging? Can you skip the inverter and just feed the correct DC V&I to the fast charging connection? Edit: 480-volt DC might be tricky. Got a nice boost converter lying around? :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You figured it out yourself ;)

[@sventrebes7990]

Die Tesla Wallbox baucht eine saubere Erdung. Ich werde es bei meinem Aufbau so machen, dass ich die Zuleitung zur Wallbox am Hybridwechselrichter vorbei auf die Zuleitung der Bypass-Zuleitung überbrücke. Da Du eine komplett autarke Insel hast wird das schwierig.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Ich kann es nur ueber die N-PE Bruecke loesen...

[@isaac827]

I am not sure about the impact on the DC circuitry but on the output side you have basically done the same thig you would do in a switchboard where you only have an active and a neutral to start and you subsequently connect all of your neutrals to your earth stake, I dont see why this wouldnt work but you might want to use at least a 1.5mm cable in case power does go to earth for some reason. A dead short could send a lot of power down that jumper wire.

[@timtheprojectman3973]

Just give the inveter its own ground or don't ground it to anything but still bond the N to the G

[@rbee3936]

I would say get a cheap solar inverter to charge the battery and create off-grid mains electricity

[@oneeyedphotographer]

Why not ask Tesla? A lot of its customers are likely to have the problem, I would expect Tesla to understand the problem, Australian regulation, and what to do about it.

[@devmich99]

+1 for Victron MultiPlus. Reliable and no ground loops.

[@michaelb.1192]

Buy the Victron, it is cheaper because it will last more than 3 timers longer than the chinese inverter. Gruß aus Deutschland, Michael

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

And comes with 5 years warranty ;)

[@MoreSplit]

Bootleg Grounds, Men-link is forbidden in EU. we use TNS grounding. Germany baned Bootleg Grounds, Men-link in early 1970.

[@james10739]

Once you ground everything else it should go away you might need to ground one side of your battery I don't know if that is a problem

[@henvan8737]

No don't do that.

[@crankydavesmylfs4787]

Another great video Andy. Go with the Victron. I’ve got the 5Kva Multiplus II for my off grid set up although the earth neutral link is done in the switch box with that. I had a Giant Power 5Kva inverter/charger and it was still going strong when I replaced it but the Victron unit is twice the weight of the Giant Power.

[@richardsirois6975]

Hey from Québec City Canada. My solar panels beat yours: it is MINUS 30C, full sun. Talk about efficiency.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, freezing cold and full sun is perfect for them. How much do you get in such conditions? I got 1.550W of a 1.220W system. That's my record.

[@DazGeary]

Was a good work around, but you are right about it being a bit risky. I can see two options with the Victron inverter, 1, what would be the payback time with charging the car on solar and not mains power ? 4-5-6-7-8 years (I'll let you do the calculations 😀) 2. I think alot of EV people would be interested in the oportunity to charge their vehicle on solar, so maybe Victron should send you a unit for free for you to evaluate 😀😀😀😀😀😀

[@neliosamch3195]

Come Andy! It not a unique problem, that is why they sale the bonding plug in Amazon to generate a neutral. Southwire Company LLC 44400 Surge Guard Generator Neutral I see all sellers and electrical engineers trying to sale you the expensive one but not helping at all.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No such plug here in Australia and not safe to use...

[@Cowardlyduck]

I had exactly the same situation recently when I grounded my powerwall to my house ground. I got 110V though and when I touched it, I did get a small shock. Measuring the current it was around 0.3-05A. I didn't like it and in my case have my powerwall already going through a properly grounded setup to run my house so don't really need to ground the battery itself.

[@sreekumarUSA]

Add separate grounding not to your home ground connection. Sink Cu pipe approximately 1 Meter to ground, wet surrounding , see the difference.

[@Cowardlyduck]

@@sreekumarUSA Thanks! I'll give that a try.

[@closertothetruth9209]

And now you can use rcds, interesting, my latronics will accept men link according to their website.

[@rov.3358]

this so called ghost or phantom voltage i think..

[@mrrewog]

In the US, neutral and ground connect at first disconnect after meter. It appears you have a floating neutral on inverter. Also the earth ground connection to ground rod shouldn't have anything to do with your Tesla issue. Make sure you have circuit protection to your Tesla controller. Your ground/neutral conductor should be large enough to handle the short circuit amps, which is the point of the neutral/ground connection in the first place. If the manufacturer doesn't allow for neutral/ground connection, I wouldn't do it. Maybe back feeding small distribution panel and make neutral/ground connection there? Your panels are stationary and now your inverter is because of grounding concerns. Batteries are on wheels. Are you still on track to meet your project goals? I probably would have started on stationary off-grid solution then portable.