Big tech and woke are destroying the middle class | Joel Kotkin interview

With wealth inequality soaring and the power of the elites growing, is society returning to the feudal era? The demographer and geographer Joel Kotkin joins Steven Edginton in this week’s Off Script podcast to discuss his theory of “neo-feudalism”. Watch the full episode above or listen on your podcast app by searching for “Off Script”.
Subscribe to The Telegraph on KZbin ► bit.ly/3idrdLH
Get the latest headlines: www.telegraph.co.uk/
Telegraph.co.uk and / telegraphtv are websites of The Telegraph, the UK's best-selling quality daily newspaper providing news and analysis on UK and world events, business, sport, lifestyle and culture.

[@franklott834]

The destruction of the middle class class began when corporations off-shored jobs to maximize profits. This started with manufacturing jobs and continues with professional services being accessed from countries such as India, via the internet. Also unions that protected the life styles of many Americans decades ago have been destroyed or weakened.

[@Sincerely_MrX]

No it didn’t, it made goods insanely cheap and we benefited from it. The inflation caused by over a century of money supply expansion destroyed the middle class along with the disintegration of the nuclear family and the over regulation of most industries leading to a dangerous lack of competition. Inflation is literally robbery, they print it to fund wars, give subsidies and fund failed social programs. That value is taken straight out your dollar and into their control so they continue their shopping spree for votes.

[@spark300c]

@@Sincerely_MrX wrong, manufacturing jobs support ecosystem of jobs. also manufacturing plants set up where land is cheap. So housing is affordable. White collar set up in large cities where land is scare commodity. They also keep make same mistake of moving to large cities where land cheaper but quickly the price goes up when they move in. with the dot com boom started over contention of jobs in saturated areas.

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

Just called my bank the other day and spoke to several people in different departments to resolve my problem. All of them were in the Phillipines.

[@fredbloggs8369]

@@larrythorn6265 Monaco?

[@Rustsamurai1]

This also damaged the 'working' class..👍

[@andrewdavis8137]

IMHO, the root cause of many of these problems is cheap debt, inflated asset prices, depriving young and poor people of a foothold to make their own start towards financial independence. The other main cause is corporatism and the complete failure of governments to use anti-trust laws. Most of these tech companies are way too big. They need to be broken up. These two things would address a lot of the so-called wealth gap.

[@bbrebozo6417]

Cheap debt used for vanity items rather than productive purposes.

[@NUCLEARARMAMENT]

If a bank has a billion dollars in assets/reserve, it can create a billion dollars in loans, which get deposited at that same bank, which increases its balance sheet to $2 billion in assets/reserves. Reserves also count as liabilities since it costs the bank money to store it, even if done electronically: hence why double-entry bookkeeping is used for the banking industry.

[@patrickdennis7041]

@@NUCLEARARMAMENT Your thinking is old school. Fractional reserve banking needs very Little Asset/reserve. The loan is the way that new money is generated in our system. Accounting for the bank is , Loans are assets. Money, your money is a liability. New money is generated out of nothing. The bank opens up a secure spreadsheet and types in your loan. Bingo new money .

[@roostercogburn1943]

Another guy that can't say the words "mass immigration"

[@NUCLEARARMAMENT]

@@patrickdennis7041 Hence why I stated "if a bank has a billion in assets/reserves," it can create loans fully amounting to that, which assumes 0% fractional reserve lending ratio, which has been what the Federal Reserve has had set since March 2020. Before that it was a 10% reserve requirement, which means a bank could lend out $900 million if it had $1 billion in reserves, and in essence could create up to $9 billion on top of the original $900 million loan--created from the initial $1 billion in reserves--amount through the money multiplier of multiple generations of fractional reserve lending. Now it is just infinite with 0% reserve requirements.

[@athenassigil5820]

Joel is an old fashioned liberal and I love his perspective and personality. A most excellent and treasured conversation, indeed!

[@mrzack888]

He's still a capitalist stooge.

[@athenassigil5820]

@@mrzack888 Oh, no! He likes money and bettering himself!

[@darthvader5300]

Russians never trust liberals and leftists!

[@joshosullivan99]

@@mrzack888 I 2 am available as a "capitalist stooge" 2 do mostly anything 4 ~£50+ph! LOL

[@CoconutPete]

I would have never guessed him to be a liberal. I can see an independent or libertarian. If he's an old fashioned liberal, then the Democrat party must be very divided lol

[@themsmloveswar3985]

There is centralization of power and wealth. There is a coalescence of institutional, media and corporate power. There are increasing levels of escapism right across society. There is a persistent drive towards control of the individual, his thoughts, his possessions, his consumption, his production, his information.

[@bperez8656]

Free markets don’t lead to this alone They lead to hierarchies based on competence The ability for top performers to buy government favors is what leads to monopolies and hierarchies of power Aka tyrannies What we need is a decentralized govt And decentralized incentives for capitalist institutions owned by workers worker cooperatives. If corporations were owned by the workers they would never sell them to the highest bidder. We need mass decentralization and a literal walking away from central bureaucrats Squash their power

[@patriciakimball8150]

@Leandro Aude Oh! Thanks for letting us know. I hope your message gets out, acknowledged, and discussed. I know as much could be said about the unions…

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

Sounds like Russia and China.

[@GregQchi]

I've been talking about the emergence of "neo feudalism" for a few years - but the primary driver of this is neither "woke" culture, or silicon valley. The primary driver is Neo Liberal economics which moved on from stripping wealth from the working classes (automation and export of jobs) to the more recent stripping of middle-class wealth (the hourglass economy). In essence capitalist growth depends upon finding margins between cost and sale price - i.e. finding ways to exploit natural resources and people lies at the heart of that. Aggregation of wealth is a completely natural and inevitable outcome.

[@jameswinks6721]

But it is not indefinite. And we at nearing the late stages

[@dendradwar9464]

The natural solution to neo-liberalism is capitalism ... provided capitalism is allowed to work properly ... socialising the fall out of large corporates is not capitalism ... the other issue with neo-liberalism is no accountability, when was the last time a member of the elite went to jail for anything? ... worst case scenario they have to "resign" keep low for 2 years and then re-emerge somewhere else ... crazy stuff ...

[@GregQchi]

@@dendradwar9464 neo liberalism is arch capitalism.

[@denisdaly1708]

Agree. Neoliberal economics is a dead answer.

[@GregQchi]

@@denisdaly1708 Neo liberal economics is the cause.

[@rickedeckard2006]

Steven Edginton... he is a new hope for what journalists used to be,and isn't scared to fire difficult questions at guests.

[@TheRuralpoet]

Absolutely, what a breath of fresh air...

[@lynnbaldwin7890]

Yes, I have heard him interview a variety of guests on a diversity of subjects; he never fails to impress!

[@MakeItWithJim]

Steven was wasted at The Sun. I enjoy these long format interviews

[@jerryhouck2237]

Ok,- nice, well spoken young journalist, but he keeps talking about the "dark picture" that Mr.Kotkin is "painting"- when he's not painting or fabricating anything,, he's ust stating the reality of what is- the fact this young journalist isn't aware of these things shows how buffered he somehow is from reality- not a good quality in a journalist

[@rollthetape88]

toffee nosed though, didn't seem to get the subtleties

[@rhysjones81]

This interviewer guy might be young, but he always seems to have actually read their content and has some really interesting questions for them, all without bias too which is great to see, hope he continues to do well.

[@alwhyte6533]

In what way does his age affect his ability to conduct an interview?

[@rhysjones81]

@@alwhyte6533 It doesn't necessarily. Obviously this won't be all young people, but meeting individuals with this ability at a young age is somewhat rare in my experience.

[@JetFire9]

The lefties will get to him and he’ll sell out or they will cancel him.

[@GudieveNing]

I run one of the few unwoke IT companies. (I have been banned from commenting on all the tech blogs despite keeping my prose polite.) Anyway, once we come out of stealth mode and begin to hire more people, we will refuse to comply with woke hiring practices. I have told my core crew that if we are legally forced to hire based on anything other than character, ability and reliability, I will sell off our assets and shut down the business.

[@MonaLisa-lu8zi]

Your CAR is a good policy framework. 👍

[@williamforrestall2161]

GREAT COMMENT !!! - One of the best tools to expose the political pathologies and Bullying of the 'WOKE" is the UDHR 1948 , - freedom of speech, property rights and so on all defined - and better yet those who abuse or even incentivize abuse ... are Human Rights Abusers ( see art 7). - All the best in your projects !!!

[@Ekimoglu]

Modern day Hank Rearden :D !!

[@williamforrestall2161]

@@Ekimoglu human rights .... stronger than steel.... and way better than political pathologies :-)

[@dickpartridge333]

Good luck!!

[@theoilandgasresourceportal2132]

Love the interviewer and love the guest. Its great that the guest knows soo much about the UK. I agree with everything he says, any middle aged thinking person can see that he is right

[@gardencity3558]

Agreed, I love the fact that he knows when to speak, when to listen and especially what questions to ask.

[@lightemittingheart1706]

Why are we listening to those who do not have our best interests at heart? Why?

[@sueb3747]

Excellent question. Wish I knew the answer.

[@earthstick]

But we're not listening to them are we, we just don't have an alternative way forward yet, so we cannot resist.

[@africanforum01]

@@earthstick I think the majority are listening either out of ignorance or their own narcissistic interest. There is a growing number of people who support crooked politicians, worship woke celebrities, deify woke technocrats etc. Which makes it even the resistance way harder as they play foot soldiers and informants for the elite. Cant understand it but it is what it is. And it is infuriating

[@earthstick]

@@africanforum01 I take your point. It looks very much like people are separating, and I cannot understand the other side either. If they think they will be favoured, then I think they will be disappointed.

[@minkorrh]

Because we sat by, greedily enjoying the poisoned fruits they offered, never realizing what the agenda was.

[@ajrutherford600]

Well I cancelled my prime membership and since I no longer watch TV I’ll be cancelling my license fee in the new year

[@joshhernandez6974]

Me too. Bye prime I’m fine without it

[@stewartellinson8846]

nothing like cutting tourself off into a paranoid little silo, eh?

[@liamfraserobrien]

Free markets without effective monopoly law leads to this and with the global income the us gets from tech I can’t see them changing it anytime soon.

[@bperez8656]

Free markets don’t lead to this alone They lead to hierarchies based on competence The ability for top performers to buy government favors is what leads to monopolies and hierarchies of power Aka tyrannies What we need is a decentralized govt And decentralized incentives for capitalist institutions owned by workers worker cooperatives. If corporations were owned by the workers they would never sell them to the highest bidder. We need mass decentralization and a literal walking away from central bureaucrats Squash their power

[@TheRuralpoet]

I have to say, old Edgington is a damned good interviewer. I'm about his age and it's nice to see an intellectual who would be able to hold his own in the rigorous level of debate of previous times.

[@SUdatsthecalloftheWU]

Me too I'm similar aged to him and its really refreshing to see - all the best to him.

[@stephencrowther591]

Edginton an intellectual? He's a wet behind the ears Tory schoolboy.

[@carolyna.869]

Must be because he skipped university! ❤

[@rocknroll7400]

@@stephencrowther591 huh?

[@stephencrowther591]

@@rocknroll7400 huh what?

[@resOnantnOde]

Great discussion. Civilization as we know it is in the crosshairs.

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

It's TV. It's advertiser supported broadcast. Movies. Radio. Comedy. All garbage. Let's define terms. Culture is what we do. Not what we buy or see. Playing soccer and making sourdough bread are Culture. Playing cello is culture. Civilization is the specialized divisions of labor. All real life. 15K job descriptions. Societies are different. Clubs. Some active. Others passive. Some local. Others national or international. "Broadcast entertainments and advertising" are something else completely different. That's the realm of delusions and confusions. This is not new news. Huxley's Brave New World. These problems are 100 years old.

[@Adnancorner]

@@scottmcloughlin4371 yes, instead of blaming oligarchy he is blaming of fake abstract narrative like ideology...

[@oldskoolordie]

In the bin tbh

[@brynleytalbot778]

@@scottmcloughlin4371 The modern middle class is over a hundred years old. Culture is a middle class activity designed to exhibit their leisure hours, or, more precisely in a capitalist society, their values both within and outside of work, defining how they communicate and act. TV is merely the extension of an entertainment medium as is the Internet, as are papers and books, that preceded them. Culture is a rather snobbish dismissal of working class entertainments. I’m afraid your culture is bought and defined by those purchasing decisions influenced by what’s in vogue dictated by newspaper supplements and lifestyle television. The world of Huxley is highly hierarchical, which is loved by the middle class who jockey for their position on the ladder of “success”, exhibited by “cultural” pursuits. The best depiction of the crass world of middle class culture is the play “Art”. Once viewed this comedy exposes the garbage spoken in cultural circles. It’s eye opening.

[@johnappleby405]

This is interesting especially when he talks about the groupthink of academia and the media. I remember a Zoom call last Xmas with my wife’s American relatives. They’re all highly educated and well qualified and without exception anti Trump. Her nephew is doing a post graduate course at some prestigious institution and when he was asked if he knew anyone who had voted for Trump he said he thought he knew one person. The lack of awareness of why anyone might have a different view was remarkable

[@madeinengland1212]

How can he call Trump despicable, then say he didn’t agree with his immigration policy (nothing changed under Trump) , then say the wall on the California border worked well. Another TDS sufferer. Those thinking this is intellectak frontier are 15 years behind this debate. The first books about a new feudalism are 20 years old (out of France). He is also wrong about Russia. Russia has the resources Western Europe needs. Just pay them for it. Eastern Half of Ukraine speaks Russian and identifies as Russian.

[@justinbetland9792]

Interesting to hear your example. It definitely feels like America has become two different countries.

[@towlasniemy]

American education system prints out a lot of degrees, but the an average graduate is slightly smarter than an idiot. The schools eradicate thinking here. I had a pleasure of experience European and American education system.

[@tobymaltby6036]

Like like with Brexit...

[@jewulo]

Because a view is different doesn't imply that it is correct. It doesn't imply wrongness either, obviously. Only an analysis of the view gives it worth. This doesn't imply that other views ought to be given credence merely just for their otherness.

[@bboucharde]

Joel Kotkin = *TOP MAN* ......Well known and respected in California academic, public policy, and intellectual communities.

[@leanmchungry4735]

Kotkin's theoretical notions click with my experience of the world in many respects, he's voicing our current predicament well, people and govt's could do well to heed him.

[@mymangodfrey]

This is one of the better Off Script conversations I’ve seen so far. I like Kotkin’s low-key rebuttal of Pinker. (Pinker’s “life has never been better” shtick is sophistry.)

[@beerman204]

I identify with Joel...growing up during the creative..alive..."people are more important than money"... seventies- which held such promise for a society of a free thinking creative egalitarian ethos. There really was hope for a new kind of world that avoided our parents conformity and rigid corporate values which felt like a straight jacket to the new generation. To me this aspect of where our culture has chosen to go the last 50 years feeds his disappointment (and mine) in how life is today. Compare the music of Hendrix...Beatles...Crosby Stills and Nash ..Jackson Browne...Bob Dylan..Neil Young...with today to get a flavor of how we have evolved...

[@lauravonutassy1919]

In a nutshell..... we haven't evolved, we've devolved.!

[@minkorrh]

Owning nothing, everything as a service, renting everything ... What's wrong with that is it takes away creativity, motivation, and the desire to elevate oneself above anything. Its central planning of the worst kind. Just look at the lack of motivation this pandemic has caused with the govt throwing money at people. Innovation will suffer, and mark my words, people will be oppressed because those with power can never get enough.

[@Pablo98145]

The hell off collectivism... A mountain of corpses and a sea of tears.. Yet here we are again, being sold this by the same type of misfits and psychopaths.

[@MackerelCat]

Even renting a womb is possible. Quite horrid.

[@grannyannie6744]

Jabs are not free they are paid for by taxpayers. In my country where jabs are mandatory, the people have become cattle whose primary purpose is to enrich big pharma with a constant flow of taxpayers money.

[@minkorrh]

@@grannyannie6744 That's sad, and exactly what they're doing here.

[@minkorrh]

@@MackerelCat What I find morally repugnant is the leftist idea posed by some pencil-neck of ........prepare yourself.......'post-birth abortion'. Yes, and no, I didn't mis-type anything. It's bad enough that people use it as a form of birth control and I understand that it's sometimes necessary, but that it simply beyond the pale. It was proposed as a 'thought experiment' by some apparently big-brained leftist idiot and gladly died where it was conceived, (pardon the joke). There seems to be no limit to what new and interesting experiments the left want to foist upon society. Whatever happened to 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'?...........I realise as a society we need to make improvements for everything, but tossing out the baby with the bathwater will do nothing but replace a functional, flawed system and replace it with what could be compared to a b-grade horror movie.

[@daviddoink872]

Break up big tech, and make them pay their taxes.

[@paulrevere2379]

It worked with the phone company and competition in that market was a kind of economic revolution ever since.

[@PulsatingShadow]

The only problem here is that those taxes go to the government which will waste them.

[@paulrevere2379]

@@PulsatingShadow A serious problem indeed. The corporate love of monopolistic regulations and consolidation which prevents free-market competition is no small thing either.

[@microfarming8583]

@@PulsatingShadow breaking them up has very little to do with taxes.

[@paulrevere2379]

@@microfarming8583 Especially when big tech and big government are co-conspirators against the people.

[@teresahall8762]

What he says about Britain being bought up by the Chinese, is happening already. I sold my house in the city centre to a young Chinese couple. No one local could afford what they could.

[@mykingslove7]

Bristol University has more Chinese/Asian students than British students. So its obvious who the future belongs to in the UK.

[@andrewdavis7017]

@@mykingslove7 yep the upper middle class selling those below them out. Nothing new there one day the middle and lower middle class will realise those who they call uneducated xenophobes have been in that position for years watching their cultural identity being stripped away .were right all along

[@voicnoir8830]

Sheffield a city that’s been left behind by countless British government, a ghost town , is slowly being bought by Chinese investors and businesses. Why would the Chinese be interested in buying a dieing town ? Cheap and easy to own .

[@karliem3534]

Read Big Capital by Anna Minton......

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

The Chinese already own much of London and have for decades.

[@pamcollins2178]

I like Trump. I do not believe he is despicable. Other than that, I believe Joel is spot on.

[@banjo1434]

He's old and divisive. A new leader with some of his ideas is required who can unite the majority who still have some common sense.

[@frankvghn1955]

He has Trump Derangement Syndrome, pity.

[@bkreed27]

I've lived in the vicinity of Trump for too long not to recognize him for the clown he is. No one ever took him seriously and his bid for the Presidency was a joke that even he didn't take seriously. Unfortunately millions of prime time TV viewers mistook the character from a reality TV show for the real deal...and here we are. It's certainly exposed a few things about the instability of American Democracy. That may be the only upside but certainly not one that DJT deserves any credit for.

[@Doomer1984]

Well, thank goodness America now has a sane leader with a history of excellent policy creation. Or not

[@bkreed27]

@@Doomer1984we're in a tough spot for sure.

[@counterf8515]

My question to someone like this would be, "How far are these people willing to let things go the way they are going, when confronting the deficit that to me is becoming more and more apparent between production and consumer?" Surely they see there will come a point where products will back up more and more as less and less people can afford to pay for said products. The producer will produce, the shop will buy stock (with more automation and less employment), the consumer (with less work and therefore capital) will purchase less. The shop will go bankrupt from lack of sales, especially from perishable consumables and droves more people will join the unemployed and on and on, until in a perpetual domino effect causes the devaluation of all currency. Robotics, automation and A.I. may be able to maintain the cycle to a degree, but still rely on human input for maintenance and necessity, otherwise there is no one to consume products and the cycle starts again. The only ones left to take advantage of such an economy would be those already exuberantly solvent enough to not require a work force nor consumer base. But even they will require products and consumption and so we go round again. Will it just keep cycling round till there is only one left with nothing but Robotics, automation and A.I. to surround them, what a sad state of existence that would be. Would they then learn the folly of selfishness and greed.

[@JinKee]

look up the “georgia guidestones”

[@johnchristmas7522]

I find your analysis credible but with the process into AI, together with greed, leaves nothing but danger for the human race, let alone survival.

[@coopsnz1]

Franchise sell the product screwed over by government

[@robertpirsig5011]

Companies that become monopolys largely stop innovating. And we have examples were organisations are creating built in failure by Apple, Microsoft, Volkswagen etc They become so powerful that their main way to stay relevant is to become political instruments.

[@lisadellaratta495]

I LOVE this interviewer. His voice is awesome and he asks great questions!!!! ❤ 🇺🇸

[@chris-mg5ui]

Young people have been trained to blame their parents generations for their lack of opportunities, rather than place the blame where it really belongs

[@antonemilit2178]

OK Boomer

[@sharko121]

That's because the hippies sold out to the Globalist.

[@chris-mg5ui]

@@sharko121 And the modern version is doing exactly the same

[@veronica_._._._]

@@chris-mg5ui The reflexive top 2 responders to your post, l shall refer to them here as "Young Boomer and "Master Hippy", are a perfect example of what happens when people (of any age) don't study history and then live to repeat it I took Buzzword Bingo as a parody all those years ago, it was a harbinger.

[@chris-mg5ui]

@@veronica_._._._ Problem for them is that they do not get taught the real history - the difficult and tough reality of the lives of those who went before, who fought and died so that later generations would benefit from their sacrifice

[@jeeed6390]

This is a tremendous summary of what’s happening.

[@davidashley4386]

Joel in the last 2 minutes of this interview hit on what is happening ie Brexit and our trade agreements is exactly what he described as like minded countries banding together in ideals and free trade. Such a great interview and a really good interviewer !

[@flip-phone_becky4655]

Absolutely amazing interview. :D Joel is great!

[@katie4408]

00:46:00 He called it!!!!! This guy needs to run for president. I am so tired of the extremes on both ends.

[@mns8732]

This is so depressing. Having seen this change

[@TheHesseJames]

Very good man I hadn’t heard about before. In terms of “New Feudalism” I came to the exact same conclusion. In terms of remedies at least in the interview he unfortunately lacks concrete proposals what to do.

[@revolver_84]

This guy is really educated and interesting. His conclusions are objective and based on metrics. I like this chap

[@timothyrday1390]

"Can anyone tell me that Microsoft is better today than it was 10 years ago?"

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

It's more bloated and complicated. Most people use less than 10% of its software capabilities.

[@Srekwah]

I like this guy but I laughed when he said he doesn't agree with the right-wing position on immigration and then goes on to state the right wing view on immigration and agrees with it.

[@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry]

There's a wide range of opinion between "open door" and "none is too many".

[@Srekwah]

@@Grimenoughtomaketherobotcry Very true.

[@fivelakeskitchenandbath9458]

It's impossible to take the democrat out of someone lol

[@marionreynolds7080]

Yanis Veroufakis talks about techno feudalism.

[@michaelmcmahon7464]

France is the best place in the World to see what a feudal society looks like.Drive from The Palace of Versailles along the Loire River and visit the Chateaux de la Loire and Cathedrals in Pays de la Loire ending at the Cathedral in Nantes. Michael McMahon,Navan,Ireland.

[@danjenkins2064]

My question for Joel would be why hasn’t the pushback from the people in Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and Great Britain been enough to keep them from their totalitarian state imposed under the guise of COVID safety?

[@amraceway]

Covid has showed how ineffective the various governments in Australia really are . The response has been outsourced with dire consequences.

[@gld424]

Lack of guns!

[@danjenkins2064]

@@gld424 Great answer!

[@amraceway]

@@gld424 The answer to everything.

[@tonyclayton6975]

@@danjenkins2064 Yes, because having so many guns in the US has worked out so well for society over there! While people have been busy shooting each other, democracy was stolen from them decades ago by the oligarchs. How useful were the guns then? What is needed is solidarity between workers (white and blue collar) across ideological lines, like in the 1930's, to confront power (no guns required). Divided we remain feudal subjects under Davos Man.

[@wilts43]

Great discussion. Thanks

[@hostashevsky]

Why Trump is a despicable human being?! To me Hillary is much worse!

[@JC-dc5iv]

Biden and his administration are way worse that despicable they're enemies of all Americans, useful idiots working for the destruction of America.

[@quuqeemonster]

I agree. What's wrong with people - it's like they are blind.

[@vanderumd11]

Both are... Happy??

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

Hilary gets a free pass because she's a woman (I think).

[@NowheretogoRecords]

outstanding analysis! Mind blowing indeed.

[@c.6452]

Brilliant interview!

[@paulrevere2379]

Poverty has not gone away, but it has changed. The mortally destitute have crossed a "health" boundary much more than a true "wealth" boundary. Both are acknowledged good things, but middle class folks have dropped to a much larger degree into the poverty class than the destitute have arisin.

[@sebas8225]

Too much "opium" has destroyed the middle class the consumerism enpooverished it.

[@paulrevere2379]

@@sebas8225 I would say secularism much more so but it tends to go hand in hand with consumerism.

[@christopherblanchard2099]

If the middle class get screwed we will enter an Empire State, with a small elite and a vast underclass. I think this would lead at best to stagnation.

[@coopsnz1]

Elite political class

[@fareshtak.touhami412]

Such a good interview and spot on with many of the insights. VA is ground zero for a lot of these issues.

[@oldskoolordie]

We criticise China while paying money to big tech to do the same thing. 🤣

[@lauravonutassy1919]

Yeah, talk about hypocrisy .....😁😂

[@stevensica89]

I loathe both of them. I criticize both of them. It's really simple.

[@wescolumbus621]

Ediginton is gettin better and better. Great guest, interesting caution: fix Capitalism, before its diminishing returns for the middle class create a Segway for another Socialist/Theocratic authoritarian "experiment." When it comes to housing, it's not necessarily that ownership is more stable than renting. Both have important urban benefit (rigidity, vs flexibility). With big Gov/big taxes, instead of a dream, ownership can become a nightmare, especially, if, instead of mutually respectful, both landlords and tenants are passive-aggressively hostile and abusive, or even when shared housing boards, property mangers and staff are that way and, when it comes to adjudicating disputes, courts are decisively Woke. Tod fix Capitalism, gotta to have a serious conversation on regulations, checks and balances and consumer protections (not Woke-potections for votes). The separation of Wokenomics and Wokiversities from Gov is at the top of the rebab Capitalism must undergo. Ramaswamy and McWharter think Wokesterism is a religion. More than Jim Crow in reverse, "Critical Race Theory (CRT)" is German school Racial Agitation 102. "Aryan-Semitic Race Theory, (ASRT) in the 1930's was Racial Agitation 101.

[@justinbetland9792]

Trump was helping to turn things around but now under Biden the middle class is starting to really nose dive again. Well, who am I to complain? My fellow American voters went for Biden apparently.

[@Sol_Invictus510]

Excellent interview. Spot on and very observant. Can personally see the issues he mentions on a daily basis out in the SF Bay Area.

[@johngallacher9957]

There is a famous speech by Malcolm X on this subject. It really applies to 'Everyman'.

[@simonjlkoreshoff3426]

It’s both sides of politics who are responsible for killing the middle class which I take it depends on decent, well-paid jobs. Both sides resist imposing tax on capital gains and on fact give it preferred treatment compared with income tax. This encourages speculation in assets and asset price inflation. It does not encourage investment in productive assets. Not only that but it deprives governments of the tax revenue they need to invest in infrastructure which is essential to support productive investment, including rail, the power grid and internet accessibility.

[@jamesbra4410]

Well no that would cause a mutiny the main economic driver is Wall Street so it would slow down investment and the government doesn't invest any money in these sectors but it will offer contracts for companies that bid the best price then select an investment bank that is willing to fund the project. Most government spending goes to subsidizing medical costs set by pharmaceutical companies and hospitals for people on government support.

[@kovvak_pot2512]

This journalist should get a raise.

[@frankcavazos5263]

I love this!! It's all about common sense, yes, we will have disagreements and may be on different sides of the isle but we cannot lose our common sense. I respect this man and would stand side by side with him in fighting for all of our rights to exist or rather coexist.

[@libertybellgaming6551]

Very interesting. Given that the rise of neo feudalism requires the suppression of competition, it would seem that the primary causal agent driving it forward is state intrusion in economic and political life. Vastly accelerated by the response of the state to the 2008 financial crisis (itself an artefact of state intrusion) and COVID 19. The solution, for those who regard these developments as problematic, would not be programmes of state organised redistribution, for this would render people even less independent of their feudal overlords. It would be one of withdrawing the state from involvement in economic and social affairs, ie., liberty and free markets.

[@thefreshcocktailcompany]

in short, Anarchy in its definition?

[@thefreshcocktailcompany]

which I tend to support these days, not in disagreement

[@veronica_._._._]

@@thefreshcocktailcompany Those that own the most data on us own us the most, no longer the State, so that would be tech oligarchs?

[@profavocado2506]

Totally free markets without state support kill people. This is what libertarians don't mention. They maintain structural unemployment which causes poverty and homelessness, they do not provide enough housing, they discriminate against the elderly and disabled. We have social programs because capitalism causes poverty. Not to mention that leaving industries without state regulation is another cause of monopoly power. Right libertarianism is a false solution.

[@leunisvandewege9651]

Study the Rhineland model and its results.

[@jimgordon6629]

Terrific program! I was particularly heartened by the trans-generational affinity that developed. Keep the faith!

[@jdg9999]

This is why crypto, web3 and decentralization is so important, we need to create networks that can out-compete centralized tech oligarchy and managerial elites.

[@bperez8656]

Agreed. Free markets don’t lead to this alone They lead to hierarchies based on competence The ability for top performers to buy government favors is what leads to monopolies and hierarchies of power Aka tyrannies What we need is a decentralized govt And decentralized incentives for capitalist institutions owned by workers worker cooperatives. If corporations were owned by the workers they would never sell them to the highest bidder. We need mass decentralization and a literal walking away from central bureaucrats Squash their power

[@TheMushroomOfficial]

How do know who owns the majority of crypto? Seems to me that the vast majoriry of people are just using it as an investment vehicle, just like any other stock...the idea it will be used as a currency with the levels of volatility these days is too far fetched.

[@jdg9999]

@@TheMushroomOfficial World changing things are always volatile, that volatility is a function of massive adoption but subsides over time. Bitcoin has become vastly less volatile over time. Try having an open mind and not just looking for reasons to dismiss it.

[@angelbreath6539]

Great discourse

[@stevendouglas3860]

Nothing will be Done .

[@nickbrodziak611]

Other than his Trump comment, I agree with Mr Kotkin completely

[@GregoryWonderwheel]

The idea of "renting everything" is good or bad depending on who is the receiver of the rents. If the commonwealth was the owner of all, then we would be paying rent to the collective "us" and that would be a good thing. But if Bill Gates and Blackrock own everything, then paying rents to them would be a bad thing.

[@leunisvandewege9651]

Read George Orwell's "Animal Farm" on the subject.

[@oliviamaynard9372]

@@leunisvandewege9651 that's a children's book

[@undersatan5685]

@@oliviamaynard9372 Animal Farm being a "children's book" doesn't make it a bad book.

[@bperez8656]

Stop thinking like the old world The 20th century proved that centralized bureaucracy is bad We don’t want that wealth to be collected in the middle and controlled by a few people We want decentralized localized highly accountable bodies and a decentralized automated federal government with almost no employees as our systems are run by technology

[@bperez8656]

Bill gates and black rock own the government because they own the politicians !

[@jodamlibs2227]

i am getting impressed with the interviews i see here lately.

[@alexspielberg4090]

"...Monopolistic capitalism is the last stage of capitalism, its a rotting and dying stage of capitalism.." Vladimir Illich Lenin.

[@italiantraditionalcatholic2390]

Oh yeah..Lenin with his secret police..unethical, tyrannical power struggle

[@MH-zq4nl]

I have noticed that recognising the dangers does not protect one from falling victim to them. Mr Kotkin’s opinion of the former POTUS has been formed entirely by the media.

[@toni6053]

Quasi religious orthodoxy is an excellent description for the woke. The free marketeers have a lot to answer for but unfortunately they never ever do.

[@dead_or_alive2649]

Yes, I also believe we must all wake up and fast because it appears that time is running out to reverse our course.

[@larrydugan1441]

That was an excellent interview.

[@ianhooper3921]

Silicon Valley has a 70% workforce from other countries because multinational companies rarely hire locals. They don’t want to upset local companies.

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

It's because they can pay them less than US citizens and can fire them whenever they want.

[@annbrucepineda8093]

Great interview, guys.

[@gabrielfriedel4754]

good job by the interviewer, asks tough questions, but very respectfully

[@gabrielfriedel4754]

I will definitely read the book

[@justinmalinowski]

Failed capitalism is not capitalism, it’s cronyism.

[@littleprince8913]

Failed communism is also not communism it's cronyism.

[@justinmalinowski]

@@littleprince8913 Haha. True in a sense, but positions of political power are not present in a free-market capitalist system, so there are no political positions or political favours to be distributed.

[@littleprince8913]

@@justinmalinowski Good point, cronyism does fit Capitalism a little bit better.

[@justinmalinowski]

@@littleprince8913 Sorry, I must have poorly expressed my point; Political power is effectively nullified in a free-market capitalist system because government has no power. It's only governments that can hold and wield political power. We currently have powerful governments and as such do not live under a free-market capitalist system. It is the government power that allows for cronyism.

[@rogeralsop3479]

Most interesting - Joel Kotkin hombre.

[@RecoveringGenius]

Joel Kotkin. A man I do not always agree with--- (as I tend to be more of a small government free-market guy) But, a man I always like and respect and love hearing from. At his core--- he is just a nice guy.

[@CoconutPete]

This video is GOLD

[@youtubeviewer5017]

Joel is a genuine man.

[@steveschramko2386]

An important role is played in these scenarios by OVERPOPULATION....however this topic is always discounted or overlooked entirely....no one is connecting all the dots.

[@francislee2622]

Australia! Democratic country! Please.

[@sternamc919sterna3]

From the latest reports it seems to be quite the opposite🙄

[@dbcoco]

yes, that is such disappointing news… so sad

[@Geokinkladze]

Loved this guy in The French Connection

[@thomasjamison2050]

I live in the US. I am still waiting for the Enlightenment to arrive and all this is happening......

[@mykingslove7]

Great interview. Sad that he missed Trump's role, especially seeing whats happening in the United States.

[@cahoots289]

What is this thing they have when they say leaders have got to be nice? Whats nice got to do with it? Trump was a great leader.

[@craigwillms61]

Right, I've heard his riff on Trump before and it's purposely ignorant. But the fact is we need someone like Trump - just not Trump. Trump was the right message wrong messenger.

[@leunisvandewege9651]

I don't want to mix in internal affairs. Greetings from Holland.

[@quuqeemonster]

@@cahoots289 I thought he was nice.

[@fuckbankers]

@@cahoots289 he would have made a Great Dictator

[@leunisvandewege9651]

Although I really love Joel Kotkins analysis of the current situation, I tend to be more optimistic. I think we ("the reading classes") tend to be very cerebral. But there's also HUMAN NATURE, human instinct and human intuition. As we see it at the moment in the manifestations against covid measures taking place all over the world (from Europe over Asia to Latin-America). The central slogans are about FREEDOM. People FEEL their FREEDOM is at stake and react. As did the "Mama Bears" in Virginia who were the ones that won the elections (motherly instinct). So the modern technocratic left that by definition is totally cerebral with it's nihilism and industrial rationalism, in the end will loose to loving and caring "primitive" MAN.

[@sniwashitu]

Great interviewer

[@almamusikdotnet]

Let’s go to Oakland California and see all of the homeless camps set up.

[@poeboypoe]

Thank ronald reagan and corrupt politicians for whats been happening to the middle class.

[@glenwallis2366]

The difference between the interviewer and the interviewee is the interviewee Is talking from experience and the interviewer is basing his questions on logic with out the benefit of experience, and I’ll go with experience!

[@mariavarga9643]

His absolutely correct.

[@topsyturvy1982]

How much money is enough for some people? In Ireland so many of our young people can’t buy their first home, millennials living at home with their parents, delaying starting a family. Precarious work, zero hour contracts, cost of living crisis, 20% deposits to by a house if lucky enough to find one for sale and so on. Who let this happen? By the way, home ownership is the foundation of the West emanating from Ancient Greece, it’s a cornerstone, being able to pass your property on to the next generation. Renting erodes that.

[@robdunn6220]

We don't have a free market society ! The Fed's Printing press has been holding up the markets since 2008 too prop up all the losses from their gambling debts !! And now there are so many unfunded liabilities the economy can no longer support it.. So more and more and more printing....Watch !

[@hypnotechno]

"Maybe we'll let them be our jesters!" lol love iit great interview with Joel

[@taralewis4723]

Excellent

[@oversight8243]

Corporate greed + power at all costs with no concern for unintended consequences = collapse from the middle while undermining humanitys best interest

[@eggymixes]

Ah man, that was going so well.

[@toomingas3]

one thing makes whole neo-feudalism alot worse and that is debt serfdom. Whole world has been made serfs through central banks and their evil debt based economic model. At one point debt based economic system collapses and it becomes visible to everyone, things get really dangerous then.

[@tomvandepol4446]

'The Road To Serfdom' - Friedrich August von Hayek (1944)

[@paddington56baer]

One of the wisest summaries of our present political situation in the western civilisation. I would add two more important points: mass migration of unskilled labour to bring in low cost competion for the poorer working force is very much encouraged by big tech and big companies and their useful idiots, the left. Second: The radical cultural revolution that want to lead us to a perfect society but leads us into totaliarism with limited speech and heavy pressure to even use newly invented or newly redefined words. And a personal, wellmeaning message to Mr. Kotkin. Don´t give interviews in a pyjama. I damages credibilty. But all in all: Congratulations to your conclusions.

[@patrickdennis7041]

How about the elimination of the standard pension for the working class? the working class was sold into the 401k stock market and the only choice that they have is to fund the 10 biggest companies via the stock market.

[@tmr3109]

Very interesting interview, I couldn't agree more with many of Mr. Kotkin's opinions. At the end of the interview he mentions that England should seek alliances with Australia, South Korea...England already had it great in the EU, it had great alliances with its neighbors, Brexit is something that I still don't understand, it is being very damaging on many levels (to small business in England that can no longer sell competitively to EU customers...to families in the EU like mine, now having to decide if we send our daughter to study maths at King's in London and pay a fortune or if we send her to a much more affordable university in Holland, where programs are also in English.

[@golden.lights.twinkle2329]

BREXIT was all about immigration. But since we left it has continued unabated.

[@mabelheinzle2275]

… and the middle class is the backbone of democracy

[@italiantraditionalcatholic2390]

America is a Republic..

[@axegrinder6734]

hopefully if we can see what could be coming further down the road we can stop it in its tracks

[@johnjones6601]

He hasn't touched on the rise of the size of the State and its intrusion into every aspect of our lives: both economically and socially. Omnipotent and omnipresent Gov't is pushing up inflation, stifling growth and entrepreneurial activity, thwarting innovation and rendering spontaneous social life and human interaction almost impossible.

[@margaretratcliffe5465]

So how do we slow it down or stop it. It needs to be stopped altogether, but how do we do it.

[@stephens1950]

Nobody represents the middle class.