Dumpster-dive Honeywell 2-port valve teardown

I succumbed to temptation and dumpster dived a skip outside a neighbours house to see if there was anything technical in it. It was mainly junk, but there was a Honeywell two port valve in it, so I thought it would be interesting to take apart.
The little correction I made in my schematic of a Type-S heating system was to take the pump/boiler switch feed directly to the live rail. If I'd left it as I originally drew it, then one valve actuating would have back-fed the other valves in the system and prevented them from turning off until everything else had turned off.
Not a bad diverter valve. Rugged construction and quite easy to change the motor. If changing the switch take a photo of it first, and note that the motor has to be removed to remove one of the switch screws.
Here's a link to the video I made about the three port Y-system valve.
• Inside a clever Honeyw...
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of KZbin's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.

[@apbosh1]

Boiler alert! This video is about heating systems.

[@MichielvanderMeulen]

ironic that a man who refuses heating posts about heating

[@armeniansdoitbetter]

What else could one of these be used for? My 1940 home had one going from the basement to the kitchen but my home has always been forced air.

[@mforrest85]

Yay I love going all the way! Love to see all the bits!

[@markscheutzow3446]

That is the new compression nut and sleeve that came with the new valve, they reused the originals to avoid shortening the pipe! Call it "field expedience".

[@dougsaunders8109]

Saves draining down the system. Just change the head, which some plumbers merchants separately, cheaper and quicker

[@bobsempires]

Same is usually done with pcbs and such in heating devices, no point of spending extra time on labor that adds aditional cost for no increased benefit.

[@hgbugalou]

It warms my heart there are so many other fellow humans that enjoy watching Clive take apart various electronic and industrial parts. I don't feel so wierd about my strange video watching habits. Much rather watch this than more popular content.

[@dimitar4y]

the way you removered the cover, SHLING! Like pulling a sword out

[@chachavessel]

"there can be only one"

[@thapthoptheep2076]

He lived in Glasgow so Clive knows that sound well.

[@nrgzrbunny7775]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qavOmKyiq6mMd5Y

[@johnmorgan1629]

You talk of the butter robot, what about poor old Marvin the Paranoid Android? "Here I am brain the size of a planet and they ask me to take you to the bridge, call that job satisfaction, 'cos I don't!"

[@johnpossum556]

I found a Honeywell 25 year employee keychain at a garage sale. Years ago I got a German Shepherd that I think escaped from Honeywell's facility. It was a bitter cold night and for days I talked to all kinds of people trying to find its owner. No one knew. He was immediately protective of me and for a stray dog had unusually white teeth and would not eat dry dog food at first.

[@westinthewest]

Is this comment simply a display of some obscure prose-poetry format?

[@BloodAsp]

Do you think Dave will notice this missing from his dumpster?

[@bigclivedotcom]

It's OK. I replaced it with a $10,000 computer.

[@alexoja2918]

Who's Dave?

[@hempev]

@@alexoja2918 Dave's not here, man.

[@chachavessel]

@@alexoja2918 the guy that talks to HAL.

[@roscozone8092]

@@bigclivedotcom Only one?

[@pleasecho2]

One of the most reliable heating system components ever made. I have had two of these in my house since 1980 and only one failed. End switch in early versions couldn't be replaced without opening the system.

[@philrichardson5726]

Really badly made components 😂 , I had to replace one after 35 years, the second is still going strong at 40 years, built in obsolescence 🙂,as you say it has to be isolated to replace, mine were manufactured in Canada .

[@davidfaraday3085]

I think you are lucky. In ten years I've had to replace the motors in both the valves in my system. I've added three LED indicators to my system, one is in series with each valve motor and shows that the motor is energised and thus that the system is calling for heat, and the third is connected to the secondary of a current transformer in the boiler power feed and thus tells me that the boiler is running.

[@millomweb]

I feel a bit guilty having thrown one out (except the lid!) after 30 years service. Only 1 maintenance issue - valve once failed to open far enough to operate the switch. Got my finger in the motor and manually wound it fully open. Worked perfectly for the rest of its service !

[@waynem6513]

Great video explaining how this valve works and how it is used in a heating/hot water system. My heating system uses 4 of these valves. The valves are made in Canada and the motors are made in the USA. In 30 years I have had 2 failures. In one, the motor failed and in the other the gear stripped. There is a conversion kit for very old valves so the system does not need to be opened to replace the power head components. The complete valve costs around $100 and the motor can be easily replaced for less than $30.

[@millomweb]

@@waynem6513 I've 5 in my system ;)

[@saiskanda]

When springs go into something without a fight, more often than not it’s not put in correctly 😂😂😂

[@StubbyPhillips]

Trivia time: The insulating cardboard is generally known as "fish paper."

[@nickjarvis2731]

And works well until there is a leak, it soaks up water and shorts to the case.

[@mcomiskey7]

Where I'm from "Fish Paper" is usually The Daily Record.

[@teachweb69]

I had an interesting issue with one of these valves recently where the motor was broken and it didn't leak but when you put a new motor on which was stronger and turned the spindle more fully water squirted out all over the place and shorted to the case

[@Bear-cm1vl]

@@teachweb69 the new motor applied lateral side force on the stem seal when it reached full open and the motor stalled, causing the already worn stem seal to leak. This is why we cannot use drive to stall on larger hydronic valves, as the motors are geared for torque and large enough to split the fittings and enclosure into pieces. These little Honeywell V8043 series valves are easy enough and inexpensive enough to replace everything except the valve body, as long as the valve mechanism matches the original body, that I rarely replace just a motor. The seals and the gearing are usually pretty worn when the motor fails.

[@stridermt2k]

Wow we still service the old Eagle Signal mechanical timers and counters and use similar motors. I must be twisted because I see this all day at work and then avidly watch these videos with great relish! THANK YOU x3!

[@matthewbeddow3278]

I have, in the past, used these valves for controlling the heating and cooling of large Electropaint baths (40,000Lts &^) linked to a thermostat that fed Hot or Cold water through the plate heat exchangers, although we used solenoid valves on the cooling side because it was mains pressure. They worked well and had quite a long life considering they were switching all the time. The one you took apart looks like the ball had some wear but very slight and it looked serviceable to me. Thanks for the video.

[@tyhuffman5447]

I love the EEVblog channel too, his dumpster diving escapades are amazing!

[@macdonalds1972]

Until you realize that he planted half of his 'finds' in the dumpster room.

[@BloodAsp]

@@macdonalds1972 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Ie, in the language of the internet: SAUCE!!!!

[@nigeljohnson9820]

When he was moving his lab, and looking for new office space, I commented that the most important requirement was that the new location had a magic skip, where practical new discarded equipment could be found. I assume that the only thing better would be to share an office building with a bank, where the skip might be filled with old used bank notes:-) One of the places where I worked, often filled the skip with end of line electronic components. The management turned a blind eye to the radio amateur vultures who would raid the skip when stores disposed of its surplus components. Unfortunately, the EU waste disposal directive put an end to such activity, as that required an audit trail showing safe disposal of the parts. Those of us who frequent radio rallies, in search of old equipment to tinker with, are now disappointed. The directive has had the effect of removing the newer scrap from the the rally stalls, freezing that which is available to the the time before the WEE directive came into force.

[@rashinn2012]

Hi. I really appreciate your videos. NOTE: one little tip for you (on calculators): to take the inverse of the displayed number, just enter "divide, then equal" (rather than save to memory and divide that into 1). Retired engineer & tinkerer. Keep up the great videos. Thank you. Richard

[@beefchicken]

My parents’ coal furnace had the exact same Honeywell motor assembly controlling the damper. The only difference was that Instead of the valve there was a disc with holes around the periphery, and chain was strung between a hook in one of the holes and the damper door on the ash box door. When the thermostat demanded heat, the motor would turn on and let the fire have more air, which would cause the fire to get hotter, which would (in due time) trigger the fan to come in. As a kid I loved to grab the wheel and crank it around, and it made the exact same sound. Ahh nostalgia. Of course my dad had the whole thing disconnected, he seemed to enjoy periodically checking on the furnace so he could admire the coals and jiggle the ashes. As an adult I totally get it.

[@throttlebottle5906]

some of the smaller wax motor heads do have end switches built in, but you generally have to order them that way. yeah we mainly use 24V for control and thermostat circuits, unless it's electric baseboard or in floor/ceiling/wall radiant heat, which is often line voltage but even that may use a relay center to allow low voltage control

[@chuckboyle8456]

Excellent HVAC equipment autopsy teaching moment. Unfortunately, this type of equipment is no longer widely taught to young trades engineers & apprentices today. This product is highly reliable and field repairable. The present curriculum for the trades is focused largely on iPAD diagnostics, not solid electro-mechanical component diagnostics. Thank you for the video! Carry on.

[@YoutubeHandlesSuckBalls]

Lol, when I saw you were dumpster diving, I thought "Dave gets 500MHz oscilloscopes with a blown fuse and all you get in other places are 2 port valves". He must be in some magical place where they throw away gold bars when they get past their sell by date.

[@MartinE63]

The cover actually does show something quite important, the raised dimple means it’s the revised version where you can remove the entire head with all the electrics (using the two screws)without affecting the seals of the wet side. Earlier valves had a different screw arrangement (four screws) where removing the head could lead to a catastrophic leak of the wet side, as in the valve cover just fell off depositing shitloads of water everywhere.

[@jackhewitt7902]

that's rather valuable information thank you for sharing.

[@phils4634]

Had a few of those on the automated garden watering system of one of the hospitals I worked for. Although they leaked a bit (after a while), and were covered in verdigris, they worked just fine, and were pretty simple to drive via ordinary domestic plug timers (Hospital engineers - do it the easiest and simplest way - so when it breaks, repair is straightforward!)

[@psirvent8]

We do have a 2-port valve in our heating system but not wired the same. Also it comes from the apparently much cheaper Spanish manufacturer Orkli. Model 30313200 to be exact. It doesn't have a switch built in and is actually wired in parallel to the central heating pump because we have another pump that sits inside of the "boiler" (A heat pump actually) in a loop with a solar buffer tank that also does the hot tap water. Its purpose is obviously to transfer the heat generated by the "boiler" to the buffer tank that basically does... everything else. (The central heating with its pump on the wall is another loop from the buffer tank) Sounds complicated but frankly it isn't at least in person. The reason the valve is there is because when the house thermostat doesn't call for heat but the other pump (Which I'll call the "loop pump") is running, some of the hot water will actually manage to go to the radiators and heat them, although unevenly but enough for us to say... Enough ! 😂 We do have a one-way valve (Or a thermosyphon arrestor valve, I'm not really sure) but apparently it can't on its own keep the above mentioned issue from happening. So our heating engineer did first install a simple solenoid valve inline with the central heating loop and wired in parallel to the pump but the issue was that it indeed restricted the flow of water to a degree that the farthest radiator from the "boiler" simply didn't heat at all !. He then figured that out after having tried other options and did come with the idea of the 2-port valve. If you Google "Orkli 30313200" you'll see that it has a red plastic cover on it and to tell you how cheap it is, although the cover is only held in by clips you're clearly not supposed to take it out at all as there's already a 3-core flex pre-wired to the motor and metal chassis for earth using the same crimp terminals. Our heating engineer simply did connect this flex to the appropriate junction box. Funnily enough it makes absolutely the same noise as yours when it operates and there's also the same override lever. But I do wonder though how long it will actually last given how cheap it is... (I live in France not so far from the border with Spain so that may explain why we sometimes do end up with spanish stuff in the house...)

[@kthwkr]

"Made in the USA" Must be more than 10 years old.

[@millomweb]

Deffo - newer models don't have Honeywell embossed in the lid. Just a sticky label nowadays.

[@PaulSteMarie]

@@millomweb The newer models don't have Honeywell molded in. Instead they have a huge disclaimer about how Honeywell licensed the trademark to the actual manufacturer and Honeywell takes no responsibility whatsoever for the product. Personally I think that's consumer fraud, along with a number of other uses of trademarks on things that aren't what they seem to be, but the legal system disagrees.

[@charlesbridgford254]

@@PaulSteMarie I agree it's fraudulent, it's inferring a level of quality based on nothing.

[@mernok2001]

The good old days.Here is the nice new world where even china is made in china.

[@ATMAtim]

"Thought of in the USA and assembled in various countries, packaged in the USA". We see that a lot here.

[@sambaker3233]

These were also available in 24V AC option. You can feed 0 to 24V AV in for modulation.

[@davidgriffiths2223]

Good video Clive! Had a major problem with our radiant heat system last year and these same valves got a lot of my attention though the problem turned out to be a thermostatic mix valve just before the valve manifold. Easy fix when I found it, give or take a bit of leaking dirty water cleanup.

[@Rickblues46]

Clive the old olive and nut remained on the house pipe work as the thing will crimp on and the engineer who changed the valve for a new one just screwed the old retained one back and put the newteplacment olive on the old valve before disposing of it .. it’s common practice in the industry.. I know I did 40+ years in it ... great demo thank you

[@nicholaschestley4879]

Currently sharing a drink with you, and mr. Honeywell!

[@christianelzey9703]

~"What is my purpose?" * "You flash this LED" ~ "oh. :( "

[@bigclivedotcom]

Yeah, the butter-passing robot does come to mind with this.

[@andreasu.3546]

* "Actually, we're only letting you try to flash the LED, but it won't flash because we shorted out your output pins" ~ ":(("

[@adrianohaha7659]

I've put one of these (different brand) on each of my radiators, controlled by the room's thermostat. They also control the boiler, so I can set different temperatures in each room. Clever devices. I can also remove the drive part by twisting and pulling (kind like one of those british light bulbs).

[@howlingwolven]

At 2:20, the screws you point at are for the whole powerhead assembly. Had to replace a couple here a few weeks ago when the microswitches went dodgy (after ten years) and wouldn’t trip the boiler into heat mode.

[@millomweb]

Were they the Drayton variant ?

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Very cool how the motor works

[@SomeMorganSomewhere]

Not gonna lie, when I switched back to this tab some days(?) after opening it and saw the title I was expecting an EEVblog video ;)

[@rogerwilco2]

Hahahahah. True.

[@qwertyuiop3210]

Wait how is your comment from 5 days before this video came out?

[@tonymac1349]

@@qwertyuiop3210 wtf!

[@tonymac1349]

@@qwertyuiop3210 maybe patreons?

[@SomeMorganSomewhere]

@@qwertyuiop3210 The magic of Patreon

[@nmccw3245]

Two of the 24V models have been working flawlessly in my home hydronic heating system for twenty two years (nock wood). Good to know how easy they are to service / replace.

[@Bushougoma]

In the US you'll commonly see Taco valves for zone control. They run on 24 volts and contain a power head and a valve body. In the head is a wax pellet and pin (just like an automotive thermostat) wrapped around the wax motor is a resistive heater. In the valve body is a simple spring loaded plunger. When it's up water can't flow when it's pressed down by the power head water flows. When the power head is energized by the thermostat the resistive heater heats the wax and the plunger in the head presses the plunger in the valve down allowing water flow. They also contain a switch that signals to the boiler that the valve is open. Due to the design they can take up to 90 seconds to open so the switch is pretty important. When the thermostat removes power from the resistive heater the wax cools and spring tension slowly returns the valve to the closed position. The added bonus is this allows the valve to both open and close slowly preventing water hammer.

[@poseidon201]

Love these videos, very interesting learning how things work.

[@jpp9876]

The beauty of the honeywell residential zone valve besides it's dependability is one can remove and replace all moving parts including pivoting ball without unsoldering or removing the body of the valve. They often will last 30 even 40 years and longer. These are commonly used in apartment buildings controlled by a low voltage thermostat that controls the temperature in the individual unit.

[@jpp9876]

Honeywell got it's start in the 1890s with an invention that controlled temperatures. A man from the state i live in got a patent on a device he made, the patent was sold a few times and a few more control devices were patented and they had a viable business going.

[@jyesucevitz]

finally a product I know. I've sold Honeywell heating and a/c controls since 1985. probably the biggest and most diverse (product wise) company I've ever done business with. that series of zone value (V8043 series) is still very popular today. in the u.s. anyway.

[@Bear-cm1vl]

Wiring a three way valve, also known as a bypass valve, is exactly the same as wiring a two way valve, also known as a shutoff valve, as both valves in this design are drive open, spring closed. The valve is selected based on what happens to the water flow when the valve is closed; three way valves are used when the pump runs continuously and does not change speed, sending water around the coil or radiator, bypassing it when the thermostat is not calling for heat, where the two way valve just shuts off flow into or out of the heat exchanger and the end switch often signals for pump to start. In the US, hot water heating coils in the air stream of an air handler are common and the end switch can control the indoor fan in the AHU as well. Both two way and three way valves are available with different quantities and configurations of end switches.

[@gregorythomas333]

Pretty neat! @18:18 Can't wait for the interface module video...I am interested in these.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Coming soon. (Already released on Patreon.)

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Very intriguing Clive

[@robinwheatley4476]

Hey Clive, The replacement motors come with 2 crimps for the wires, you can also get a replacement plate, ball and o ring kit as the shaft going through commonly seizes either stopping them from opening or keeping the heating or hot water on.

[@millomweb]

Yes, you'd replace a load of GOOD components rather than add a couple of drops of oil to the valve bearing !

[@robinwheatley4476]

@@millomweb when it's siezed it's normally because the seals are leaking. Oiling can work but if it's leaking then it's a kit that Honeywell sell

[@millomweb]

@@robinwheatley4476 I've not had one leak - but I have had a stiffie. "When you get to my age, what hasn't dried up, leaks." - "The Gaffer" (played by Bill Maynard).

[@robinwheatley4476]

@@millomweb more leaky at my age now than stiffy 😆

[@madmanmapper]

I think the reason we Americans use 24vac to run all our HVAC stuff is because 24v is the highest voltage we're allowed to wire and install with almost no code or regulations. It's considered 'low voltage' and is exempt from most electrical building code that mains voltage would have applied to it. It doesn't really complicate anything, as it only adds a transformer that fits in your hand, and maybe a couple of relays.

[@bigclivedotcom]

That makes sense. It could be useful here with the explosion of red tape.

[@trikerjon]

Very good video, I’m having trouble with mine and your explanation of how it works is very helpful 👍

[@trikerjon]

The black bushing on mine are broken and you can’t buy replacement parts, you have to buy the whole upper body assembly. Very unhappy, considering I just bought 3 motors to replace the old ones 😡

[@JJsGA]

Ah my favorite, the zone motor/valve. We use this exact zone valve in our apartment complex. Super easy to swap the motor. Our water where we live is very hard with calcium and lime so you can imagine what that does to the valve and motor.

[@frankintegrity7996]

Found your channel recently.I'm currently sat in my shed/work shop surrounded by shite like the stuff you strip down.Glad it's not just me.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Technical hoarding is perfectly acceptable.

[@Wtfinc]

Very inspiring. Makes me want to keep working.

[@jkobain]

Dejavu is when you remember what you haven't met. That diverter I have certainly seen, as you mentioned, and now I guess it is time, again! ;D

[@tin2001]

I thought it was just for when something changes in the matrix.

[@jkobain]

@@tin2001 not that I wish to imply you have been sleeping on the job, Mr. Anderson.

[@Opel_Guy]

I have two of these on my system to control heating upstairs and downstairs independently via two timers/thermostats. The other week the one that controls the upstairs one stuck on and I woke up early in the morning to a temperature of 27degs! I striped it down and found the grease had dried and it was sticking. A good clean and re-grease it was all good again.

[@millomweb]

No need for a clean. No need for grease. 2 drops of oil thins the existing grease and a little wiggle works it in freeing the mech off perfectly.

[@AMDRADEONRUBY]

Nice a new video . Very interesting as ever thank you

[@wobblysauce]

Nicely designed unit.

[@zlatkojurkovac6981]

Thanks for another great video Clive! This is what I personally like, some strange component teardown that might actually help someone, or just to see a nice detailed show of a component working its job. Maybe you could try some odd power generators, elevator systems or something along those lines..? I am sure that you could and you obviously have the know-how. Anyway, this is just my humble opinion - please don't take it as a criticism, rather a possible point of us getting more thrills and you making more funds to keep the channel going :) BR Zlatko from Croatia

[@bigclivedotcom]

Some elevator stuff is hopefully coming soon.

[@jasonmurawski5877]

Here in the US these use 24Vac and are almost identical, except ours typically have solder fittings on the sides. The top module is almost identical, but ours have screw terminals and the voltage. I replaced 3 of them in my house and on 2 of them the switch had stopped making good contact, on the other the motor had failed. The ones with the failed switch i was able to clean the contacts with some sandpaper and repaired one of them, overall they are very resilient

[@woleast]

Pump lives have been wired from the heat source for pretty much the last 30 years, as they generally allow for a temperature over-run period controlled by the pcb. This is because radiators are supposed to be fitted with thermostatic valves for energy conservation purposes and in theory could all close. There would also be a bypass required between the pipework flow and return for water to continue flowing for this period, this is now usually a auto bypass which is a sprung loaded pressure related valve. Also on modern systems the pump is fitted directly in the heat source and prewired with a bypass internal of the appliance.

[@armchairwarrior963]

Only thing I know about Honeywell they make good components that last a long time! I see them in my heating systems that last decades.

[@beware_the_moose]

Dave is diving in his own dumpster. Don't overthink it :)

[@lauram5905]

I've got one of those for my apartment's heat, the only problem I ever had with them was unrelated air in the pipes, the water hammer ended up shaking one of the sensor wires loose. That was a toasty week.

[@SusiBiker]

Damn I'm old. As soon as you said, "A standard microswitch", I thought, "Ah, the old Burgess (McGall) microswitch." The MOD used/uses only genuine Burgess ones in everything during development as they are so damn reliable.

[@MONTY-YTNOM]

You REME ?

[@SusiBiker]

@@MONTY-YTNOM Civvy - RARDE/DERA/DRA, but was also in RY. You REME then? PS - Loved the BR @ Sennybridge.

[@MONTY-YTNOM]

@@SusiBiker Yer Ex REME

[@oliviergilcreest8088]

Honeywell sold out to a company called resideo. Resideo now make all honeywell home products. TBH the quality of alot of the stuff has gone up. Heatinggeek (on KZbin) does a very good job explaining this. I have some bits and bobs you might be intrested in bigclive.

[@AnthonyFrancisJones]

One of the reasons for the rubber ball valve is that it is very low friction to operate. The motors do not have a lot of torque so the quarter turn water valves have to be very easy to rotate. The metal parts often need freeing up though! This is noticeable if the boiler does odd things and one will find that the zone valves are not opening and closing correctly.

[@cartayno]

Nice teardown and explanation :)

[@michelgrenier1878]

In north America the same valve is used for hydronic heating , normally a Erie reverse acting valve 24 volts using the cooling circuit to power it off , The end switch normally turns on the pump , And unpowered it springs returns open ,It is a fail safe design just like the pneumatic systems if the air compressor quits the heat goes on full to prevent freezing .

[@markallen.2160]

Be aware - if you have one of these, only replace the actuator if the top has a dimple on. The plain cover one has the ball as part of the actuator, and things get very exciting (and wet) if you take it off the valve body. 99% of the time the fault will be the motor, 1% will be the switch, you will hear the switch click, but it will be open circuit.

[@metalman4141]

Very interesting Clive thanks 👍

[@johnthorogood6601]

'S Plan' are typically gravity hot water and pumped central heating system. 'Y Plan' both HW and CH are pumped with the same pump. Heating installers decided on which plan to use depending if HW cylinder will work on gravity.

[@okbridges]

The older versions of these valves were marked Erie, I am guessing that was from before Honeywell bought the company that made them. We used to have dozens of them at the University where I work, they seemed to be popular in the early 80's for use on fan coil units on heating water and chilled water valves. Most of them are gone now, either replaced with Honeywell VC series cartridge valves or something else. We had a mixture of 24, 120 and 220 volt controls for these, depended on the building, and had to always check that we grabbed the right one when changing them out.

[@bubba99009]

Much more convenient than an alternative system where they have power on *and* power off to the valves - they requires an additional wire to all the thermostats and special thermostats. You would have to set up relays in the boiler room to be able to install modern thermostats.

[@throttlebottle5906]

that valve looks used to me, they just reused the same old compression ferrules and nuts on pipe/tubing. I'd guess the motor or end switch is bad, by recall it didn't look to be opening far enough, so maybe something in the gears or coupling slot worn. I don't deal with that type valve often and when I do I put taco wax motor models back in.

[@millomweb]

Nothing wrong with this one. Just stupid heating guy throwing out the good stuff to replace it with rubbish (i.e. Drayton).

[@thedim900conf]

If you want to look further the white rogers system is similar but there is a 2 pole rotory switch that controls the pump and the travel of the motor. took me a while to figure out how to wire it to a standard on off thermostat. had to use a relay because the valve needed a call for heat and a satisfied signal. Usa 24v system. If i recall the valves had 6 wires to each

[@TheEmbeddedHobbyist]

In all my C&H systems the pump has been controlled by the boiler. The boiler likes to keep the pump running after heat demand has been removed to keep the water flowing thorough the heat exchanger until it cools down a bit. Not a heating enginer but have been fixing my systems since my first one was installed in the 80's. So far changed about 3 electrical assy and 20 valve bodies.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Pump overrun is useful. Some boilers do control the pump so they can keep it running for a short time to dissipate extra heat in the boiler. You can also add a thermal switch or thermostat that bypasses the pump control to keep the pump running while the water is above a set temperature.

[@millomweb]

That's a variety. Looks like you throw a lot of good stuff out !

[@stevenmoomey2115]

You can replace the Clock Motors, they are available on the Internet and Some Supply Houses. Also I purchased a Bag of new seals, many years ago from the manufacture. Don’t remember who that was. I rebuilt, them because in high rise buildings, it was hard to get a burn permit, to use a torch.

[@nicholasviney5975]

The little nipple on the cover notes you can remove the head without getting wet, if there is no nipple (older models) if you remove the screws for the head the whole body comes apart and you will get very wet.

[@soranuareane]

I had lots of experience with these failing in our previous home. They were used as zone valves for sending heating oil to the baseboard heaters throughout the home. We had one that was faulty; I'm guessing the micro-switch failed. It's been a while so I forget exactly what the problem was.

[@sambuca9913]

Clive, not sure if you will see this but I just wanted to say I love the channel and I have a pair of Bluetooth earphones that only work in one ear if you want them to tear down and have a look at

[@arthurgordon6072]

I like the way you used an 'electrician 's hammer' to remove the nuts!

[@DerCrawlerVomUrAnus]

"I hope you'll find the information therein quite useful" Who is this posh man, and what did he do to Clive?

[@bigclivedotcom]

Yeah. Awkward ending.

[@teachweb69]

I am going to go to bed with this guy talking as I fall asleep

[@bigclivedotcom]

A lot of people do that.

[@vectravi2008]

The most common problem with these valves is wear on the drive gear to the quadrant gear. As a result of wear the gear slips when opening causing the valve to shut because of the spring return mechanism. You can check this by opening the valve manually using the level. Try it a few times and if you notice a sudden loss of resistance when opening it that indicates the gears are gone. No need to open it up. Skip it. Another important thing if your changing one of these is to check that you use the correct olives. 3/4" and 22mm olives are very slightly different in bore diameter. The same nuts can be used but I would advise that you purchase a couple of each size olive and try them on the pipe first.

[@DrGreenGiant]

Why do flat head screws exist, I hate them with a passion!

[@bigclivedotcom]

Legacy. It's so the screwdriver can slip and impale you easier.

[@l3p3]

Some people argue it is easier to use if paint, grease or oil is covering the screws. But I think in most cases, torx is also fine in these cases. I think torx screws with an extra slot as backup is a ideal solution. I am sure you could make a video about different screw keys existing and their reason of existence. ;-)

[@stepheneyles2198]

@@l3p3 And the subtle difference between Philips and Pozidrive!

[@johnpossum556]

Legacy is right. These synchro motors can go virtually forever with minimal care. They're very similar to a shaded pole motor only they last forever because they operate at so low RPM. I still have one running on a lighting system from my building that was built in 1958.

[@IceBergGeo]

I think the flat heads are there for when a homeowner touches it with a Phillips screwdriver, you can still replace the screws ... the hard way...

[@BobMuir100]

What a lovely piece of engineering! How do folk get these ideas and still work within what’s available parts wise on the market to actually allow it to be made and then serviced! Watching shows like yours Clive has given me such admiration for engineering and the like. Thank you Bob

[@BobMuir100]

Help! How can one edit a post please?

[@bigclivedotcom]

Select the dots at the side of it and choose edit.

[@BobMuir100]

@@bigclivedotcom Clive you are ACE, I was doing that but no edit option was given but because you told me I persevered and found out that it only works on the dots above the dots I was clicking!! Cheers mate.

[@albanana683]

I recently had a problem with a three port version. The microswitch was three wire so COM/NC/NO were wired up to the system. The switch had gone bad and was triggering the boiler even when the timer and thermostat was turned off. The motor was also making a bad screeching noise when it turned. I replaced the head unit as it just clipped onto the valve without having to disturb the plumbing. I see that the rubber ball had obvious marks where it was closing, so it doesn't seem to turn during normal operation.

[@lrochfort]

I believe the dimple on the cover indicates whether you can tinker with it and not get wet

[@JamienM]

Your hands are very close to the bare terminals of that quick connect. Im sure you can take it but it was making me a bit anxious 😂

[@jkbrown5496]

I believe the US migrated to the 24 vac control system because with the limit of 40VA on the transformers it is considered inherently safe from shock and fire ignition. This means running the thermostat cable doesn't require extensive wire overcurrent protection. They used to not even put in a fuse to protect the transformer, but do now. These days rather than an inline thermostat switch the thermostat switching signals to the control boards in the blower/furnace or outside AC/HP unit. Older systems were at mains voltage but obviously required mains standard wiring.

[@opelmonzagse]

Clive, the micro switch is wired to a permanent live through the grey wire. Which when the switch is closed by the synchron motor powers the orange wire. The syncron motor is powered via switch lives from the programmer and the cylinder thermostat.

[@millomweb]

That's one option. The valve offers 'volt free contacts' so the microswitch could be used to operate a 24V boiler valve.

[@opelmonzagse]

@@millomweb yes you could but that’s not how an S plan or that two port valve is used in domestic heating installations in the UK

[@millomweb]

@@opelmonzagse Some boilers' 'call for heat' is not mains voltage. This switch would cope with that.

[@acmefixer1]

Brass brings good money from the recyclers. Thanks for letting us know where we can obtain a syncron motor. They're found in 24 hour light timers and go bad after a decade. The grease turns to varnish and gets so gummy that the gears seize up. I guess Honeywell just used what they had laying around to come up with this product. 👍🤗

[@drpipe]

Nice work Clive.. be careful as some of the older versions when u remove the head the whole lot comes off 💥 ya get very wet in a hurry.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I've got your unit here and some components on order for tests.

[@drpipe]

@@bigclivedotcom I’m pleased mate.. I know lots on the channel will take a look 🙏

[@lee4hmz]

Years ago, the building my work was in replaced their old radiators with new, electronically controlled Trane radiators, and they had the 3-way version of these valves in them. The only problem was that Trane plumbed them backwards and so the controller powered on the motor when *not* calling for heating or cooling. The motors all cooked their bearings after a few years because of this, which meant that the valves wouldn't spring back when the thermostat demanded heating/cooling. You had to help them along by pulling the cap off the motor and turning the armature manually...

[@millomweb]

Odd.

[@Azlehria]

There's a (not-so-) fine line between "designed to be serviced" and "designed to _require_ service".

[@BM-jy6cb]

The olive and nut are more than likely off the replacement valve, as you would use the existing olive on the pipe, along with the old nut stuck behind it.

[@pollywollydo]

Notice the ring on the ball, it’s seat is rather sharp and under certain circumstance can result in the seat gripping the ball causing a jam

[@ntsecrets]

I have the 24v version of these. I can hear the mechanism in the pipes when it closes. I think these are more reliable than the Taco version that is also common in the US.

[@AndrewWorkshop]

I've replaced so many of these. Some have lasted many years and had others fail in one heating season. Usually the motor goes, they lose the power hold down the end switch but are still able to open the valve. Nice tear down.

[@millomweb]

Have the failed ones been Honeywell ?

[@AndrewWorkshop]

@@millomweb Yup all Honeywell.

[@millomweb]

@@AndrewWorkshop Might be the same issue I had - just wound the motor to the end stop once and seemed to fix the problem ! I can't remember if I oiled the spindle in the valve body as well. May well have done. No need for replacing parts.

[@AndrewWorkshop]

@@millomweb Thanks, that makes total sense. Will try that next time ( it's going to happen again I'm sure lol) 🙂

[@klaust.2769]

In my central heating i had to replace this valve three times over the last 20 years! The motor never failed. Always the rubber ball had shrinked or was hardened so it didn't close full anymore. If it was in the dumpster ist has perhaps the same issue. Next time i will try one of these repair kits instead replacing the whole valve.

[@horrovac]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, the manufacturer knowingly saddles the customer with a stalling motor that draws 8W constantly when on and will eventually fail because of this, in order to save a tiny bit of money on some kind of end switch and latching mechanism? At least switching a resistor in series with the motor to reduce the current to a "holding" value and stop the motor from wasting energy on the task of roasting itself to death? This seems to me to be the annoying kind of penny-pinching that causes vastly higher cumulative cost in the end, just to save a couple of cents from the initial cost.

[@olavl8827]

I'm sure you're right but I believe this is also done to make it fail safe. Power goes out = valve goes shut, without need for any switching.

[@eDoc2020]

I wonder how much this actually effects the unit's lifespan. The motor dissipating more power surely reduces its life a little bit but not having an additional switch also means one failure point which gets eliminated. The effect of the power on the customer's electric bill should be fairly negligible. It only wastes power during a call for heat, and the 8w here is nothing compared to the kilowatts of a boiler.

[@millomweb]

@@eDoc2020 Didn't BC say 6W ?

[@millomweb]

It's not a reason for failure. It's just powering a coil of wire close to a rotor that will rotate if free to do so.

[@alerighi]

@@eDoc2020 It depends on how many zones you have in your system. If for example you have 4 zones, it's 4 * 8 = 32W wasted when all the zones are calling. Not too much but. By the way a boiler doesn't consume a lot of electricity, in the end it only has to run a pump, a fan and some microcontroller. It's probably less than 100W. Wasting energy for wasting energy in my house there are wax motor valves, I think when they are open consumes less energy in the end, and are a resistive load (instead of a motor that is an inductor), and are more simple. The thing to wire the switch to control the boiler is done also in my installation, tough the switch doesn't switch 220v directly but a control signal from the boiler. All zone valves contacts are in parallel so the boiler starts when one of the zones requests heat. By the way in modern days a heating system made this way is no longer good. Newer boiler should support OpenTherm and thus can module, not go always 100% of the poer but heat the radiator at the correct temperature based on the set point that you want, so if you are near the set point the thermostat tell the boiler to heat them less. A system like this with multiple zones requires a more advanced control, basically a BMS that gets all the OpenTherm output of all the thermostats and then combines the set points to make the one to send to the boiler.

[@christastic100]

I have replaced lots of these and the modern versions have a flimsy gear that gets mashed ether jamming open or not opening. . I would venture to suggest this is a deliberate weakness. I also noticed this doesn’t have a little earth bond wire to the lid that newer models have ( last few years)

[@xfran70]

Same here ... mechanic damage ... This is deliberate weakness for sure.

[@Lagmire]

Honeywell basically has a monopoly on heating controls in my area of the world. I make a lot of money replacing these things...such crap, but there’s nothing else

[@dopiaza2006]

just had a 2018 one of these die today. Genuine honeywell. Having googled, the advice is to buy aftermarket replacement head. Another once great brand turned to shite.

[@TheRintincola]

Very interesting!

[@colinfarrow9971]

Being a plumber the reason the nuts and olives look new is because they are new, when replacing like for like we slot the new honey well onto the existing pipes and use the existing nuts and olives, plumbers compound is all thats necessary. 👍

[@BarneySaysHi]

Wow, people tossing brass in the dumpster!

[@tncorgi92]

I once worked at an industrial park, we'd find coils of cable, copper pipe, electronics etc. especially when a unit changed tenants. I even snagged a couple of perfectly good fire extinguishers.

[@tbelding]

@@tncorgi92 I have three fire extinguishers left behind by a customer during a move. I just do a regular maintenance on them. (Turn them over, hit them with a rubber mallet until you hear the powder release)

[@dennisphoenix1]

Common failure point on these valves is the spindle goes tight and the motor cant overcome the resistance so the valve doesn't open . When fault finding on 2 ports you can push the manual lever quickly across and for a second it will close the micro switch and bring on pump and boiler. Quick check to see if it's the motor either not getting a feed or is failing.

[@tomvleeuwen]

Take a sip every time Clive says "spring"

[@kareno8634]

*Dumpster Divers Rule!* Well worth the 'Dip'! new sign on dumpster . . . 'note: Don't expect this dumpster to be taken to bits to get you out.' ; )

[@sidneylarkin7002]

One of these was my first central heating fault, I could not turn the boiler off. Took the programmer clock off its mount, still would not stop. The microswitch contact had spiked. I ordered and fitted new microswitches