I like the LED version and brightness is definitely an advantage here, but neon being the simplest, is probably more reliable.
@deltaxcd Жыл бұрын
you can just replace neon with led rod from incandescent lamp imitation. as drop in replacement with the same simplicity
@Elektrotechniker Жыл бұрын
But leds will break as short circuit and a neon bulb will just not light up at all while being highnimoedance. So it‘s much safer with the neon lamps I suggest 🤔
@deang5622 Жыл бұрын
But the neon screwdriver is contact only. So you can't use it to detect the electric field emanating from a live line behind the wall.
@eDoc2020 Жыл бұрын
My concern with the old-school neon version is the glass. If you drop your screwdriver how likely is it to break?
@Landogarner83 Жыл бұрын
@@eDoc2020 From experience the plastic handle tends to break first.
@TopEndSpoonie Жыл бұрын
Great work Clive. Thanks for the time an effort. Can see that a fair amount of time was put into it.
@stevenA44 Жыл бұрын
and, not an.
@taunteratwill1787 Жыл бұрын
@@stevenA44 Yup another grammar Nazi detected. And stop giving yourself a thumbs up freaky boy. 😎
@graememorris782010 ай бұрын
It's a nice idea. Much though I love neon testers, and believe that alongside their great value as a cheap and simple diagnostic tool, they are invaluable as safety equipment. I have heard tell of - and experienced personally, countless instances where their ease of deployment has given timely warning of an unexpected live. Some people bang on about them being electrocution hazzards, and sure, this may well be possible if one plays submarines with them before use, but I haven't heard of one electrocution occurring via these devices , yet I've heard as I say, of countless instances where danger was averted due to them. Their greatest drawback , is their dimness , which makes them unsuitable for use in bright daylight. Making such a tool brighter as you have done, has to be a good idea. Another drawback they (neon testers) have , is that they are limited in the voltage they can safely handle. For most home DIY ers this is not a problem, as most of us will only be probing 240VAC. But they can cause electric shock if inadvertently used on voltages higher than their rating. As an edit. I'd like to add that although as I said, electric shock could occur if neon testers are used to check voltages higher than their rating. I mean shock - electrocution even so would be difficult. If we consider the ballast resistor in the tester to be 1Meg ohm, than to pass a current of 7mA , which the smallest current known to be fatal (across the heart ) , 7000 volts would be necessary.
@Nono-hk3is Жыл бұрын
Also a good demonstration of why we have "one hand in a pocket rule" if you must work with live voltage.
@A-Negative Жыл бұрын
I did not know this and did some googling -fascinating while a simple concept we need a Big Clive video breakdown.
@TheOnlyEru Жыл бұрын
I assume this is the same as what I was taught. One hand gripping my belt behind my back. Should any current be induced in the body that hand would hopefully clench up and be prevented from closing the circuit across the heart.
@markfergerson2145 Жыл бұрын
Left hand in the pocket was allegedly begun by Nikola Tesla (I don’t buy it myself) because even while he was working, it was known that current passing through the heart could stop it, and avoiding current passing into the left hand lessened the possibility of stopping your heart.
@shadetreemechanicracing22 Жыл бұрын
Shake hands with danger.
@Bullcutter Жыл бұрын
There is no such rule! It's advice! And it's a pretty dangerous one if you are on ladders, fault finding some lights on a ceiling, as you can lose your balance and fall off with one hand in your pocket! Pretty daft idea!
@alpcns9 ай бұрын
Your implementation with the LED's is by far superior - and looks great as well. I'd happily buy and use one.
@Plexyglazz Жыл бұрын
One of the only applications I can see for those insanely bright blue LED's.
@michaelkaliski7651 Жыл бұрын
The neon bulb has high enough resistance to prevent a lethal shock even if the megohm resistor fails short circuit. The neon also has other uses checking for microwave leakage or standing waves on an antenna circuit. LED’s offer no protection, hence your suggestion of using three resistors in series. Fifty years of using neon screwdrivers as a quick sanity check gives me a degree of faith in these simple devices that I don’t have with the all singing and dancing high tech solutions today. Yes, you do need experience of how to use them properly and appreciate that no light never means a guarantee of no voltage!
@ianmason. Жыл бұрын
The impedance of a neon lamp once struck is quite low. Certainly low enough to carry enough current to be dangerous, tens of milliamps if not more just for a small indicator lamp. It would be highly dangerous to rely on the neon to protect you if the current limiting resistor failed short.
@boredape1257 Жыл бұрын
I just like how such things can glow when plugged in extension cord that has switch in off position. Feels like magic.
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
Only néon and leds. It means your switch is single pole. It's illegal in France, all our cord switches must be bipolar.
@rhiantaylor3446 Жыл бұрын
Yes, the problem with a series string of diodes is that they don't share reverse voltage equally or in any specified way since it depends on the leakage current vs reverse voltage curve. Your third option with three independent groups of LEDs looks more attractive.
@rpdom Жыл бұрын
Interesting. I'd like to see some measurements for both versions. Actual current for a start, if you've got a meter sensitive enough, both grounded and non-grounded. Also voltage drop across the screwdriver and across your body when grounded. I've a feeling the neon drops a higher voltage than the LEDs, so would be considered "safer". Using ordinary 3 or 5mm LEDs instead of the tape might give better all round vision, although the neon ones tend to have a little "lens" over them so you can see the tiny glow better.
@zh84 Жыл бұрын
In re green LEDs being the most efficient: it's also the colour to which our eyes are most sensitive. I did an SYS project on this and having got the wrong answer during my interview I will never, never forget that the wavelength which appears brightest to human eyes is 555nm.
@JMMC1005 Жыл бұрын
Green LEDs are actually among the least efficient in terms of actual light output. The high brightness per watt is purely down to our eye's sensitivity. From memory, blue LEDs are the most efficient by far (largely driven by the huge demand for efficient white LEDs).
@mernokimuvek Жыл бұрын
@@JMMC1005 I think some yellow LEDs are less efficient than green. Im not sure about IR and UV LEDs.
@JMMC1005 Жыл бұрын
@@mernokimuvek That's possible. I know that the power IR LEDs I've used also got damn hot, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were pretty bad.
@gartmorn Жыл бұрын
The thing to remember is that even with the good old Martindale tester you were still instructed to test it on a known live source before using it! Worth remembering if it is hardly ever used and gets damp/corroded in the bottom of an old tool bag and goes o/c! Common sense and a little electrical knowledge can go a long way!
@g8xft Жыл бұрын
Brilliant update and thanks for answering my previous question. Might look at making one.
@smilerbob Жыл бұрын
Nice video there and interesting as well. I prefer the definite brightness of the LEDs as I have found on occasions it is difficult to tell if tge neon has lit up or if it is a reflection off something else. There will be the traditionalists out there that will prefer neon over anything as that is what they have used for the last 20 years but they fail to remember that before these testers we used apprentices to test for live wires, if they made a mig of tea afterwards it was safe to work, if you needed the plasterer to repair a human shaped hole in the wall it was still live 🤣 Obviously the last part is a joke but the traditionalists will still favour neon 👍
@WECB640 Жыл бұрын
The little voltage tester was dim Invisible to see on a whim Clive took it apart designed it on spot This video gave me a grin
@frankowalker4662 Жыл бұрын
As a rule, I've always found the neon hard to see unless you are working in a rather dark area. Your LED version is very easy to see.
@misterhat5823 Жыл бұрын
The neon has a much higher threshold which could be useful. To duplicate the effect a couple of back to back zeners in the 68V range in series could be added.
@pjeaton58 Жыл бұрын
Don`t need zeners back to back, look up Tranzorb diodes !
@misterhat5823 Жыл бұрын
@@pjeaton58 Transzorbs are much better for transients and less accuracy on the point at which they start to conduct. In this application I'd stick with zener diodes.
@henrybecker2842 Жыл бұрын
Clever idea Clive - clearly the green LEDs appear much brighter.
@AliusScitmelius Жыл бұрын
The green light usually indicate that something is acceptable. In this case it can indicate that it is acceptable to touch the wire which is currently tested. Some other color could be better in this application.
@davelowets Жыл бұрын
Our eyes are very much more sensitive to green light. If one were to observe a green and a red laser beam of the absolute same power levels, the green beam would look MUCH brighter to our eyes, even though the beams are both the same in terms of output.
@terrym1065 Жыл бұрын
Haven't used one of those things in 30yrs, didn't know they were still made. I have one and think it's neon, will try to find it.. Thanks Clive👍
@CrimeVid Жыл бұрын
I still use a neon or a volt stick when pulling a switch or socket off the wall in an unknown house, it’s amazing what you find, and I don’t like finding current with my skin. ( Why the hell is it always the tender skin on the inside of my elbow !?)
@jagmarc Жыл бұрын
Here's a true neon screwdriver tale: I had a close call being up on a ladder many decades ago in a friend's factory in London checking to see if a 440V panel is dead or not before ripping it all out and redoing the connections. On that day I didn't have a neon tester so instead I was using a multi-range tester, holding the black and red probes one in each hand while leaning forward to the electrics to stay on ladder. I carefully dabbed the probes to various places but didn't get any voltage reading at all, it didn't make sense and it completely messed up everything I had planned out. All I got was the reading briefly just tiny jump slightly from zero when I made the probes contact. I wanted to confirm the voltage was there first then shut off that circuit only. So I just came back down from the ladder, very puzzled, I then packed it in until the next day. Next day I came back in to repeat and then I noticed.... the tester was switched to DC VOLTS instead of AC. DOH! I was THAT close to a major calamity but my '6th sense' + logic had saved me. If I had instead a Neon Screwdriver in one hand then I wouldn't had needed to have a 6th sense + logic to protect me. = much safer.
@jor7137 Жыл бұрын
What if the ladder increased your resistance to ground and the neon wouldn't have worked too?
@jagmarc Жыл бұрын
@@jor7137 Very good point..... if the metal ladder I was up on had been instead made of insulating plastic, but a wooden ladder that's more feasable. I'd still be puzzled all the same why a neon hadn't lit up for me first before I'm ready to cut the power, then I wouldn't had proceded any further by default. I just now remembered all those decades ago when I used a wooden ladder: I would leave a reel of insulated cable down on the ground and then carried up the loose end with me still insulated. Then came out in the 80s the non-contact LED 'volt-stick'. I guess if I'd used that the combined wood together with proximity acts like an almost short-circuit impedance? This all just neatly proves: *the most sinister and deceiving failure of a safety feature - is the one which is believed to be reliable*
@jagmarc Жыл бұрын
@@jor7137 By the way had you seen that YT video of the HV (500 kV?) line worker on a platform attached to a hovering helicopter, clipping on dampers one at a time to each live phase wire. There was a huge long spark in front of him as he approached. He definitely wouldn't had needed a neon tester!!
@graememorris782010 ай бұрын
@@jor7137A neon tester would still work even if the ladder was insulated . They work even if you are wearing electricians safety shoes. If the path to ground is blocked by an insulator such as a wooden ladder , neon testers will use the capacitance of your body to function. Any insulation such as rubber soles or wooden ladders, become the dielectric of a big capacitor where your body acts as one plate and the Earth as the other. Try it , you can jump in the air while one of these things is glowing , and as long as it stays connected to the live, it will continue to glow.
@jor713710 ай бұрын
@@graememorris7820 Good points. I had them give false positive before. Not sure about false negatives
@Mr_Lee68 Жыл бұрын
Very informative video, doubt I’d touch the end on live connection, I will stick to vde 1000v compliant test gear, but respect to Clive, and respect the beard 👍🏻
@wisher21uk Жыл бұрын
Brilliant explanation Clive really enjoyed your version too 😊
@billjuaire3316 Жыл бұрын
I built a tester after getting new green LEDs, It works great, even in a lighted area. Being that I am only using this on 120 vac I reduced the current limiting resistor to 220k. Tested it with one finger on the tester and an adjacent finger directly on a ground, absolutely no sensation of shock. It stays below the 400uA threshold for sensation
@Mike_5 Жыл бұрын
Brilliant research work here BC well worth the time to make one of these 2023 versions!
@jajwarehouse1 Жыл бұрын
Although it could be seen with green only, having different colors for each polarity would quickly tell you the direction of flow or if it is AC vs DC current.
@LakeNipissing Жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to read the current in µA. The green LEDs are acting similar to LED lamps that continue to glow dimly after the power is shut off due to leakage currents.
@acmefixer1 Жыл бұрын
Good quality Green LEDs need only a few hundred microamps to look reasonably bright. It depends a lot on the quality of the LED; there are so many shysters selling LEDs with defects, especially ones with bubbles in the clear epoxy. If you buy LEDs that are not mounted on tape, there is a high probability they're factory culls.
@chloehennessey6813 Жыл бұрын
@@acmefixer1what do you mean by mounted on tape?
@RobertSzasz Жыл бұрын
@@chloehennessey6813components with leads are shipped stuck to one or two strips of tape for automated handling
@zyeborm Жыл бұрын
@@chloehennessey6813on the reels that they come on for mass production probably.
@clockworkvanhellsing372 Жыл бұрын
I've experimentet quite a bit with leds and ultra low currents to recreate tritium keyfobs. Green doesn't work that well. White (warm white as low as 1800k 3535 leds) are by far the best. They can be seen at normal room brightness at as low as 2μA. Green takes ~10μA to be as visible. The second best are blue and ice blue leds followed by some kind of pink. Red and yellow are the worst taking >20 μA to be even visible at lower light conditions.
@M0UAW_IO83 Жыл бұрын
Used to love proper neon screwdrivers, they're great for detecting the presence of high frequency AC, you just hold the body of it near to the source and if it's energised the neon glows. Dead handy for working on old CRT tellies and radio gear because it takes a good whack of radiated energy to light it up..
@jagmarc Жыл бұрын
There used to be a craze of added neon light on the end of transmitting antenna. Lights up and flickers with your voice as you spoke.
@gregorythomas333 Жыл бұрын
I really like the LED version much better than the Neon just due to the fact that they are way brighter...especially when on a grounded source...easier to read in a bright environment. Have you thought about making a small batch of these tester replacement boards...maybe even recording the process too? I have been missing your longer videos...I even rewatch several of them over & over again :)
@piconano Жыл бұрын
I think the Neon lamps are safer and last forever in such application. The fact that diodes fail short is disconcerting. Neon lamps have two plates separated by gas, not much can go wrong there.
@deltaxcd Жыл бұрын
neon lamps die too the glass can break. or something can disconnect. led will also last forever
@Gengh13 Жыл бұрын
Even if the LEDs fail short it would still be safe. That's why it's better to use the version with several resistors in series to spread the voltage and keep it safe even if a resistor is shorted.
@StuartJ Жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same thing. Some circuits I have seen, which take a voltage reference from the mains, do so with a whole stack of resistors in series for safety. The classic neon screwdriver uses just one resistor, and my thinking was that neon bulbs added the additional protection.
@Mike-H_UK Жыл бұрын
That's the finest universal continuity tester (FUCT) or possibly the finest universal continuity-tester known..............
@memejeff Жыл бұрын
Never thought it would be this simple to use LED's in one. It makes me wonder whether one couldn't make a nice little decorative light without a neutral connection. Super simple design and looks really nice with the slight flicker.
@rexsceleratorum1632 Жыл бұрын
without a neutral, I'm guessing that if you add enough of them, you can trip the earth leakage protection
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
That's called the antenna effect. It's technically capacitor efect. I see it every day when leds are used with very long wires, they glow even when switched off.
@memejeff Жыл бұрын
@@rexsceleratorum1632 Good catch. Still would be a nice light but probably should use the neutral instead.
@memejeff Жыл бұрын
@@Benoit-Pierre Yeah, but that isn't done intentionally. That usually happens with cheap lights with no resistor across the led's.
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
@@memejeff It happens in most wall switches that include a witness (the witness may light in the wrong situation) (Legrand Mosaic, Celiane, or Plexo using LEDs like 067686 ), or alarms like Legrand 076671. It also used to happen with LED bulbs used with halogen regulators: even switched off, leakage current could still light the lamp; recent regulators now fix this issue. You can also fix the issue on the bulb side by adding a parallel 0.1uF X2 capacitor (X2 does not means times two, but the letter hix two is the capa classification).
@davidchoi6068 Жыл бұрын
In the old days, the neon bulbs are brighter and lighted bulb can be seen easily. Nowadays the neon bulbs are poor illuminated that may be seen as no high voltage and caused electrical shock. For safety, I use clamp meter with NCV for AC high voltage non touching testing.
@asiano3385 Жыл бұрын
Interesting. Mine has a different design. It contains spring which is connected to the red cap and is pushing to a glass fuse where the fusible wire was replaced with a neon and a resistor inside. But sadly the transparent plastic cracked and the red cap fell off and when I glued it back the glue covered the fuse with a white film overtime and slowly terminated the connection between the spring and the "fuse" so the neon won't turn on anymore. I hope they will make these simple test screwdrivers with LEDs instead. And it looks nice with the green ones. But I like the neon variants too.
@RODALCO2007 Жыл бұрын
Very good led conversion you made there Clive. The LED's are a lot brighter. I thought that most LED strips are power hungry. A high efficiency LED can glow at currents well below 1 mA.
@jessebob325 Жыл бұрын
I like the LED version. Well done Big CLive. 🍻😉
@assassinlexx1993 Жыл бұрын
My neon tester still works great for 60 + years. You have to have trust in your equipment. Never knew the black part was a 1 meg resistor.
@Phil.C1 Жыл бұрын
If I recall when I was working on human interface with mains voltage we had to allow for any direct path where humans could touch live would require a limiting resistance. We had to assume a resistors could become s/c or o/c. Safety resistors were too expensive, and not all approval bodies would accept them other than the ww type. So in order to say create a 330k resistor, we would need to use 4 resistors (a parallel pair of 330k and then another 330k parallel pair in series). The ww fusible resistors only went up to about 1k, and you needed to limit current to a few uA. This meant you had to use around 1M for a 253V AC rms (240 + 5%). Fun fact neons need a few photons to cause the gas to initiate the flow of current between the electrodes, even after the striking voltage has been reached. If you wanted to use a neon in a dark /sealed environment (relaxation oscillator or as a voltage regulator), you needed a small light source near it or to cover the inside of the neon bulb with a bit of phosphorus that will glow due to electron radiation from one of the charged electrodes.
@djalasdair4984 Жыл бұрын
I can't see any comments saying this but green might not be the best colour for this, often green implies safety and red danger
@rajanne29479 ай бұрын
LED is bright & easy to see. But neon is indestructible! Won't fail ! And Even if a high voltage is applied it won't electrocute you! Raj (Chennai) India.
@ZaneDaMagicPufferDragon Жыл бұрын
Very interesting 🧐 I like the LED version better than the Neon indicator.
@factorylad5071 Жыл бұрын
But it's too dangerous. Would you not consider converting it to a logic tester for your safety and the safety of others if you find it so attractive?
@noname-wo9yy Жыл бұрын
@factorylad5071 lots of people say this but has anyone actually died using them
@andygozzo72 Жыл бұрын
@@factorylad5071 no, theyre not dangerous if designed and used properly,
@PainterVierax Жыл бұрын
@@andygozzo72 yep as Clive said, the real danger is the inadequate isolation of cheap designs.
@SeventhSwell Жыл бұрын
Neat. The only very minor nitpick I can come up with is the LEDs are only visible on one side, while the neon one can be seen from any side. Probably a very easy fix with something as easy as twisting the LED strip so an LED can be seen from just about any side.
@tactileslut Жыл бұрын
Doesn't he have two strips of three each in inverse parallel? It's not omni like the neon but should light on two sides, not one.
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
The LED strip was double sided.
@gertbenade3082 Жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks Clive! If I might add: I think the neon being a tad safer as their failure mode is generally open cct whereas LEDs is a more 'direct' connection. Either way its 'only' mains voltage.....(he said while schmoke billows from his brightly glowing ears and now badly burnt nostrils, hair on fire) 😂 Also: money shouts louder than safety: neon wins due to being the very cheapest implementation of this design!
@robtitheridge9708 Жыл бұрын
What i liked about the NEON version was you culd wave it near the flyback transformer of a tv set to check for EHT.
@nigeljohnson9820 Жыл бұрын
In general, electrical engineers and contractor frown on neon test screwdrivers as being dangerous and unprofessional. I personally have always found them useful, provided they are used with caution and with awareness of their limitations, such as not probing excess voltages above 400 volts peak breakdown voltage, so basically limited to mains 230 volts. Though in my day it was 240/250 volts A.C.. In their heyday, the neon bulb was constructed like a fuse, with a glass tube with two end caps. The series resistor was specified to provide a good margin of flash over protection. The neon was designed to strike when the voltage between its end caps was between 60 to 90 volts, though they might start glowing at voltages as low as 42volts. They were specified to light at 100 volts. I suppose the main weakness, was that the glow was not that bright, and depended on the user providing a good earth with their finger touching the end cap of the screw driver. In the days of valve TVs, there were some times used in the highly dangerous practice of detecting the CRT EHT field, this did not require touching the end cap. Their greatest virtue was simplicity, not an a attribute that could be used to describe the very dubious modern alternatives, that require a stack of button cells, and contain a microprocessor circuit. The advantage of the neon bulb over an led solution, is that it operates at a high voltage, but very low current. The little neon fuse like bulbs were once common components. My very first stroboscope was made with one of these neon bulbs mounted in a bicycle front light reflector It worked, but was not very bright. I think you should flash test your LED version, as that is the critical parameter. I certainly prefer your version to anything containing batteries. Not sure that such test screwdrivers have much of a future. Their reputation has been damaged by the cheap Chinese imports, that use inadequate components, that make them very unsafe to use. Professional electrical engineers want such testers banned, so they may disappear as a result of some EU directive.
@alerighi Жыл бұрын
Also another thing these devices are useful for: to find which conductor is the phase. Yes, in an ideal world conductors have the proper color and everything, in the real work you open a derivation box and you find all black conductors, or colors that make no sense at all. This is why in my country this device is called "cercafase" that is phase finder. Another less common use case is to touch appliances to know if they are grounded correctly. If you touch the metal case of an appliance and the earth is not connected the neon will glow slightly. This is because the filter capacitors let some current (not enough to be felt or to trip an RCD) to ground, that is enough to illuminate the LED. Or in general to know if a ground is good, for example if you touch with the scredriver the earth and the neon illuminates it means that that earth is not really connected to ground. That could indicate a break in the cable. Of course these are not scientific tests, but a cheap test to do to find potential problems, that then will need to be investigated with the proper testing tools.
@DelticEngine Жыл бұрын
It may be easier to do an LED version that fitted in the larger version of those electrical test screwdrivers. If a pair of RGB LEDs was used, they could be configured in inverse-parallel with a resistor for each pair. The resistances could be chosen to give a particular colour, possibly including one approximating a neon.
@tomkelley4119 Жыл бұрын
I feel like there could be functionality added to this with a couple transistors so that a green would show 12v (ac or dc), yellow could be 120v, and red could be 240v. I don’t know how to design that, but I bet Clive could.
@snigwithasword1284 Жыл бұрын
That would be pretty cool but the idea here was to be stupidly simple. Actually im pretty sure its not possible to get 12vdc to show up wireless like this, you need a ground wire.
@tomkelley4119 Жыл бұрын
@@snigwithasword1284 Yeah - I was unclear on the operating principle of the light. I didn't think it was using HUMAN FLESH as a virtual ground. Maybe it would be possible with some sort of boost converter? It's quite possible that I have no idea what I'm talking about.
@alunjones3860 Жыл бұрын
The LEDs might be a little too sensitive. I get a green LED to dimly light in my house, by holding one leg and touching the other to an earthed object, such as a tap or radiator. Putting a 75V zener diode in series and a high value resistor in parallel, would make it less sensitive, but it should still work with the mains.
@cortanajpn Жыл бұрын
The LED version is probably better by all accounts, but I prefer the neon one just because it’s neon and I prefer the aesthetic. (I own a Nixie clock for that reason too).
@dragonrider4253 Жыл бұрын
I was kind of hoping you'd touch those with the iron directly. Would that release the magic smoke?
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
Neon always has a resistor that can accept 500v direct contact. For leds, a proper design should also be tolerant. Always be sure to use a 500V resistor, and calculate your max current for 500v. Note that small leds are said to use 10mA. That's partly wrong. That 10mA current is to get an MTBF of over 1 million h. They can easily accept 40 or 100mA for 100 000h or 10 000h. Do you think you will spend more than 10 000h touching the tip of that tester in your life time ? What you must consider in this usage is the max reverse voltage. That will be your limiting factor, because this one does not forgive.
@ChrisD4335 Жыл бұрын
I would be surprised to learn these did not already exsist on the market
@elvirasdog Жыл бұрын
LED brightness is a plus!
@johndododoe1411 Жыл бұрын
A key feature of the good neon probes is missing. Any indication means voltage tested is above the safety limit of about 50V . This prototype reacts around 10V . Adding an apropriately sized Diac or extra LEDs could fix that . Another key feature is polarity indication, traditionally by lighting only the electrode connected to one of the poles . In the LED design, different colors could do the same job , just remember to compensate for voltage differences .
@eDoc2020 Жыл бұрын
But is that really a good feature? I think the ionization voltage is usually around 90 volts which is well above the safety limit. It's definitely better to have false positives than false negatives.
@johndododoe1411 Жыл бұрын
@@eDoc2020 Still somewhere around the danger level . Getting a faint glow around half mains is still relevant when the main dangers are around 220V above ground . Of cause there's always feeling that voltage as a slight tingle while working on it .
@johnhatton7137 Жыл бұрын
I must defend the the much maligned neon screwdriiver and your improved LED version. I was brought up on this device when Avos other testers were too bulky to carry on a push bike and providing you understood the limitations as you must with all. test gear. I was once sent to investigate why shocks were being given from a cold water tap, the neon tester lit when placed on the tap! Of course the tap was not alive but the floor was, reaching in through the doorway and digging the neon screwdriver into the wooden floor there it was. The floor was soaked in moisture and chemicals and was conducting from a faulty heater next door
@vincenzo-zocca Жыл бұрын
A test screwdriver is perhaps an electrician's hammer. Hammers must be simple and without any vajazzling whatsoever. Proper clean, simple and great design!
@B-System Жыл бұрын
I would consider that a solid replacement-in-kind for the neon design, for sure. Have you consider maybe a 20 mA pcb fuse in line, if you're concerned about the isolation capacity of the resistor?
@mernokimuvek Жыл бұрын
I like the neon version better for 2 reasons: Its classic and worked for decades and plasma give more feeling than a solid state LED.
@martinda7446 Жыл бұрын
I was taught to keep a hand behind my back working on TVs as a lad. Nobody mentioned it during my later education, even though most professors had long white beards. I still automatically do it if I'm poking near dodgy voltages.
@manolisgledsodakis873 Жыл бұрын
Clive, you can get 350 volt resistors type MFR4-1M0FI from uk Farnell (code 1100042): Through Hole Resistor, 1 Mohm, MFR, 500 mW, ± 1%, Axial Leaded, 350 V I normally use this type for the start-up resistors in SMPSUs. Usually 2 x 47k.
@henrikoldcorn Жыл бұрын
I don’t know how efficiency of different colour LEDs compares but as I understand it green is the best colour for eye sensitivity - for a given energy output (proportional to voltage and current leakage = scariness) you will see green as being brighter. I don’t know what the threshold for visibility/danger is with neon but green LED in particular should add some safety margin.
@AllLoudNation365 Жыл бұрын
I prefer the Neon based one because it's a classic.
@phils4634 Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the "significant hit" I had from a (probably Chinese) VERY cheap Neon tester decades ago! Made a very basic version of this using two red LEDs in inverse parallel, and a 500k resistor. Bright enough to almost read a book by , and I wonder where that device is now -= somewhere in the garage I suppose 😀
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
500k will deliver letal current when used on triphasé 400v. Also you probably used a 250V resistor which will arc on the 310v part on the top of the wave, which can kill you in 0.2 s.
@barrieshepherd7694 Жыл бұрын
Smart idea to repurpose LED tape rather than make a PC board up - GR8 'out of the box' thinking!
@BPantherPink Жыл бұрын
They will sell very well as the "Clive Probe" 😁
@fredfred2363 Жыл бұрын
Clive, don't forget that a neon has a 50v strike voltage. So with a neon, it'll only light when above 50v. With 3 leds, it'll light up at any voltage above around 10v. Yiu need a zener in there... 😀
@vsvnrg3263 Жыл бұрын
clive i know very well that you know what you are doing but i think the light sticks are safer. years ago a sparky left his e-z scan above a suspended ceiling in a high-rise office building. some time later we had the job doing a total stripout including the ceiling. the e-z scan fell out of the ceiling and has been mine for more than 30 years. the same model is still available. a row of leds allow you to locate live wires, more leds light up the closer you are. ive shown it to qualified sparkies who had never seen such a thing. and some of them cant see how it has any advantage over the common light stick.
@nutsnproud6932 Жыл бұрын
I prefer my 1980s neon tester it just works from any angle.
@iamdarkyoshi Жыл бұрын
What about using some clear gel LED filaments? There's so many dies in them you may be able to get more brightness for the same voltage as a neon, like you did a while back in the LED vs neon indicator video
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
I did consider that, but even with two in inverse parallel there's a risk of exceeding the reverse voltage of individual chips depending on whether the reverse leakage currents are matched. It's a fairly low risk though.
@RavenLuni Жыл бұрын
Would be interesting to plot some measurements and see how they vary with dry vs wet skin etc. If there is a reliable gap between grounded and non-grounded thresholds, could the circuit be improved by setting a couple of comparators at those levels - then you would have a logic signal you could do anything you want with (like light LEDs at full intensity :P )
@mikenewman4078 Жыл бұрын
You can feel the difference. Hot sweaty environment can make it a bit tingly. The ol' "testicle pensicle" has saved many a lecky from unexpected live ones. In bright light you feel it before you see it. 240 / 415 VAC control circuits are still around.
@colinkinvig7670 Жыл бұрын
Great idea! patent it quick 😮
@fromgermany271 Жыл бұрын
In any case, to indicate „off“, always check the tester with a live line before/after. If you work on a line with a switch, that especially easy to do. And for professionals: yes, such a tester is not to prove the connection could hold 16A (that what your „Duspol“ is for. Sorry, only know the German term), but the very opposite, that there is not the slightest connection to life wire.
@Allan_aka_RocKITEman Жыл бұрын
FWIW: When I was a kid I did just a bit of 'messing around' with a couple of small neon bulbs. {This was back in the 1970s.} I had {and think I still have} a small hand-cranked surplus magneto generator I would hook to one bulb to light it. I also THINK at one time I had one bulb attached to a wire or small antenna {or SOMETHING} outside my bedroom window that would illuminate when a thunderstorm was nearby. Living in Saint Petersburg, Florida {USA}, afternoon summertime thunderstorms were a fairly common occurrence...😊
@ZaphodHarkonnen Жыл бұрын
I think the LEDs benefit on apparent brightness by being much more a point light compared to the neon. As for the future? LEDs will probably take over in time. But as you note it isn’t going to be something that happens quickly.
@eskieguy9355 Жыл бұрын
Bet we'll see it now. Now that you've done the work.
@PenryMMJ Жыл бұрын
When you find yourself sitting on the floor 5 yards away from the panel you were working on, with smoke coming off your beard....it was definitely live.
@theonlywoody2shoes Жыл бұрын
Clearly AC and not DC then - if it was the latter you’d be bouncing around stuck to it like a pin-ball.
@UpLateGeek Жыл бұрын
Speaking of neons, I was originally thinking of using blue neons for my "vintage style" VFD clock (mostly because blue LEDs wouldn't be "period correct" since I'm using soviet era VFD tubes from Ukraine) for the ":" between the hours, minutes and seconds. However I wasn't sure they'd be happy about switching on and off every half second, or if they'd be bright enough to match the VFD tubes. Then I thought of getting some of those tiny grain of wheat bulbs used in model railways and etc. and painting the bulbs blue or using a blue filter film. So I tried a blue alcohol ink pen, and rubbed off far too easily. Next I got some blue filter film from the art store and that did almost nothing to tint the bulb light blue. The only other option for the bulb is to try a piece of blue tinted acrylic, but I fear that would be much the same as the filter film unless I can find a dense enough blue coloured acrylic. So I'm looking again at neon bulbs, and I'm not totally comfortable using mains voltage in my design. So I'm wondering if there's a way to use them similar to the way they're used in that screwdriver, at at lower voltages with sufficient brightness to not look out of place next to the VFD tubes?
@Ni5ei Жыл бұрын
Big Clive The man who contributed to the demise of real neon bulbs... 😢
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
I doubt they are going to disappear any time soon.
@Ni5ei Жыл бұрын
Don't know. Compared to an LED they're pretty complicated and expensive to produce. I already have a glue gun that has an LED + resistor where there used to be a neon bullb.
@Fifury161 Жыл бұрын
Isn't the neon version inherently safer due to the fact that it remains open circuit? By contrast (no pun intended) the LED version must always make a complete circuit to work? The neon one will also not fail (nor function) on a DC connection - the LED version could put the user at risk if the DC current was high enough?
@ianmason. Жыл бұрын
Why do you think the neon indicator remains open circuit? It doesn't, it strikes, some of the neon forms a plasma and conducts current. It wouldn't light unless there was a current flowing through it. Also neon tubes are not AC only devices, they will operate quite happily on DC too (only one electrode will glow). The whole point of the 1M ohm resistor in both types is to limit current, so in both cases you get similar currents flowing through the test device as it is dominated by the 1M ohm - about 180uA for a neon and 230 uA for an LED. They are as safe, or depending on your view, as dangerous as each other. Personally I wouldn't use either as making yourself part of the test circuit just seems a dumb idea.
@Fifury161 Жыл бұрын
@@ianmason. Well I suppose only one leg will glow on DC. Have a read at this: www.effectrode.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/glow_lamp_specifications.pdf
@jagmarc Жыл бұрын
I would feel quite safe using this LED one because I've no problem in slightest touching via 1 MegOhm to mains voltage, but there's only one thing which I wouldn't do, even though it was safe and that was touch to an earth to get a brighter signal. It's because there's a 6th sense inside me inhibiting me do that even though in this case unlikely anything bad would happen.
@divVerent Жыл бұрын
One issue or not is that this one already lights up at lower voltages, while the neon one only lights up at "dangerous" voltages - those that can send a dangerous amount of power through your body given usual body resistance. But this is obviously fixed easily by not using 3 but like 30 LEDs in series. May also make it more visible. Or maybe not, as this one is also nice and helpful in automotive usage.
@DBRCustoms Жыл бұрын
Makes me wonder if you could use the led strips that come inside of the vintage filament bulbs. Would make 360 illumination simple with either polarity direction.
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
No. They flow a current that could kill you. Also they are designed for 250v top, while these screwdriver need to accept 500v to keep you safe. 240v neutral phase is 440v between two phases. Neon remains a bad solution for peuple with 110v because that bulb starts working only above 85v, so at 110 the current is low, thus low light emission.
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
It should work. Even at the very low current through the resistor.
@DofTF Жыл бұрын
I'm sure you must have used the older ones that had a screw on end cap, which was always handy so you could tip the water out of them after picking it up out of the puddle of dirty water you'd just dropped it in, that would have been shortly before your teeth were rattling around in your head 😮
@noanyobiseniss7462 Жыл бұрын
Nice work.
@nakfan Жыл бұрын
I really like the green leds one 👍 Great video like always. BR, Per (DK)
@Poundy Жыл бұрын
I think the biggest drawback on the LED version is the viewing angle "benefit" that the Neon bulb has, you can see if it's lit or not from any viewing angle. Perhaps that can be dealt with with some form of fresnel lens, or super efficient double sided but super-narrow PCB layout to restrict the viewing angle blockage...
@jawjuk Жыл бұрын
Before the video was half done, manufactories in the Mystic East were already churning out your tester, Clive!
@markfergerson2145 Жыл бұрын
Big improvement over the neon version IMO. Expecting Chinese copies in 3… 2…
@snigwithasword1284 Жыл бұрын
Countdown to seeing your version reproduced showing up on ebay en mass
@lightcapmath2777 Жыл бұрын
Very cool demonstration...You ROCK! Big Clive...Cheers! DVD:)
@katrinabryce Жыл бұрын
Yes, if you can get a pair of opposing polarity LEDs are are visible from any angle.
@Benoit-Pierre Жыл бұрын
-Facom already sells led testers since over 5 years.- They also use a black plastic tip ( with high level of carbon - french patent design to electro paint cat bumpers).
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
I can't find one. Can you give a model number or keywords?
@mikemines2931 Жыл бұрын
We apprentice electricians many decades ago used to short the resistor and leave the tester around. No one complained as this was an electricity board and these testers were strictly verboten.
@RousePartridge Жыл бұрын
I'm voting Green in this experiment. Of course each component will be considered on the pennies-per-pound cost point. ( or cents-per-0.45Kg)
@chrisj2848 Жыл бұрын
Beauty!👍 Id buy one.
@joseph8208 Жыл бұрын
I still don't understand how you don't get shocked, is the resistor the only thing stopping you from getting a zap?
@CanizaM Жыл бұрын
Yes. 240V/1M = 240uA which is the current if the whole thing was across the mains, but your body also has a voltage drop, so in practice the current will be lower. LEDs or neons don't need much current to light up.
@ernstoud Жыл бұрын
Got the neon ones, but I have always wondered whether the various non-fixed contacts (spring to resistor, resistor to end cap, spring to neon, neon to screw bit) are reliable enough to rely on using them to determine presence of live power. If one of those flimsy contacts fails, one concludes there is no live power and you might die…
@Landogarner83 Жыл бұрын
Hence why you should always test them (or any indicator) before use.
@henninghoefer Жыл бұрын
I have so many failed neon indicators, mostly in illuminated switches. Hopefully LEDs take over those as well.
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
The neon indicators in electrical accessories are often ridiculously overdriven, stressing the neon and its resistor.
@Gold63Beast Жыл бұрын
There’s nothing like a nice Neon bulb. Nothing even comes close to a nice neon glow.
@Coxeysbodgering Жыл бұрын
As an industrial mechanical fitter I would prefer something more visible in bright light, however the led is far better. Do they do one for higher voltage upto 415 ish?
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
The 415V is still just 240V to ground if that's a three phase supply.
@The_J_Man Жыл бұрын
And I should bloody well hope you're not going *across* the phases with the tester in one hand! You'll not last long unless you're very well insulated from ground!
@richardbriansmith8562 Жыл бұрын
Awesome Video big clive
@penfold7800 Жыл бұрын
Only thing is, im sure i have one somewhere that has a screw on the end so you can replace what i thought was a fuse with an incandescent light filament in it. Im pretty sure i would prefer some kind fuse that cut the circuit if the rest of it failed to save my finger.
@bigclivedotcom Жыл бұрын
I don't think there's a fuse value low enough to protect you from a serious shock.