Dangerous imported smoke machine. (with 240V XLR socket)

[@johnjones4825]

Clive, you gave me the willies. At 60 years old, I still bear the scars, mental and physical from a shock exactly of the kind you describe, suffered at age 18. Both of my hands became locked onto a wire in left hand and a light fitting in the right. What you describe about the hand going to the chest is absolutely true, in my case both hands. A never forgotten lesson. Worst of it is that the flat had fuses only, no earth leakage. I think I survived only by falling onto the floor, and away from the lamp...

[@Ingvehetland]

That's really scary to hear. Glad to hear that you it ended well

[@JasperJanssen]

NozzyTheFox if it hadn’t ended well, you wouldn’t have been hearing about it!

[@Ingvehetland]

@@JasperJanssen exactly, that's why I'm glad to hear 😅

[@Kudos1799]

You say "a never forgotten lesson" but as in most cases one can rarely predict. As in my worst experience when I tugged on a faulty ball float micro-switch in a school vending machine that was sat on a wet stone changing room floor. It sure kick started my career.

[@firstsurname9893]

@@Kudos1799 Presumably the lesson was remember the one hand rule.

[@joshbobby]

Why on earth are they using an XLR connector? That's not popular enough- they should be using a usb connector, so when people go to plug their phones in, it sends 240v through it!

[@MrJob91]

Why not make the chasis live?

[@TheRealColBosch]

I snorted coffee out of my nose at that one.

[@MichaelMaj5]

You gotta love China. They are so good at making life exciting 👍 🤔

[@peterg.8245]

USB C and go for MacBooks

[@CanadairCL44]

I don't think XLR plugs / sockets were ever designed or intended to carry mains voltages.

[@nickbird7742]

It seems that anything at mains voltage from China should be opened to see if its going to kill you or not. UPDATE I thought after seeing a comment below saying that "if it had the correct saftey code it should be safe" now it's easy to find bad items on Ebay. So I opened electrical items from Amazon, most of the outside lights failed, these mainly had the earth wire just left loose, so that meant no earth protection or worst the case could be live. I reported this to Amazon, I didn't hear back. It's was a bigger problem than I had thought because when I locked at the packaging from different sellers they were coming from the same factory or area. Next I looked at Wifi cameras these had twin aerials, but strangely only one was connected. Next Led lights bulbs that failed with burnt wires inside. The last item was a power pack that i had planned to open to see what had failed, it's problem was the live wire was soldered with only a few strands making contact, easy to fix. I don't understand why the Chinese do not understand why it's important to do it right.

[@mlenstra]

That’s what I do, and I have caught quite a few potential hazards so far. Worst was a USB charger with soldered wires from its mains plug pins to the PCB, one of the wires had come off the PCB and was flopping about in the case near the USB output connector’s pins...

[@captainheat2314]

@@mlenstra extremly fast charging using 240v

[@LieseFury]

@@mlenstra that's fucking terrifying

[@Kaboomf]

Yup. I bought a cheap grinder once, that had a safety relay switch wired backwards. The way it is supposed to work, once you push the button it closes a contact to energize a relay, which keeps the contact in the on position until you hit the "off" button or disconnect the plug. When the relay is deenergized, a spring opens the contact. This insures the grinder cannot accidentally be left in a switched-on state and start immediately when you plug it in. Wired backwards, with the live input wire going to what should be the relay output side, the grinder always started on being plugged in. It was otherwise well grounded and insulated, but the auto-start feature made it crazy dangerous until I fixed the wiring.

[@techemically]

Anything at mains voltage from China should just never be used.

[@LarixusSnydes]

They probably saw a great deal on these XLR connectors and/ or they thought: this will definitely make my machine look more professional, because I've seen them use this connector everywhere in the entertainment industry.

[@BlackEpyon]

It would make perfect sense if that was for DMX control, but you're not going to find those on such a cheap device.

[@Sylvan_dB]

I expect someone specified, "XLR connected remote control" because that is what other units use. And the factory delivered an "XLR connected remote control." (Likely somebody at the "designer" thought the specification was insane, (who in their right mind would put 240v on an XLR?) but the culture does not allow questioning and so delivered exactly what was specified).

[@mashedpotatoes5323]

@@tamer27antepli that's literally what LarixusSnydes said.... Why are you repeating it.....

[@Ragnarok540]

These vaping devices are getting out of hand.

[@bostedtap8399]

Love it. Vaping for Groups 🤔.

[@MandrakeFernflower]

^ Car inverter hash oil hotbox

[@Davidnangle2000]

Hahahahaha

[@cowboyfrankspersonalvideos8869]

They quit testing because all the testers were electrocuted. :-)

[@8tyman8]

I'm not shocked they quit testing

[@Cosmochris_]

Lol

[@hotlavatube]

Clive orders it, "We'll never ship to Isle of Man again!"

[@katrinabryce]

John Ward orders it, "We'll never ship to England again" 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jp-um2fr]

@@katrinabryce Ever since that bloke said neon mains indicator screwdrivers should be banned as dangerous and as they have probably saved dozens of lives I gave up on him.

[@JohnnyX50]

lol you knew it was bound to happen.. Also if EEVblog orders it "No longer ships to Australia, the barsteds" lol. If I ordered it, it just wouldn't come.

[@ballsrgrossnugly]

Irony is, they already sent it to the one person who can actually potentially kill their sales anyway.

[@sandwich2473]

@@jp-um2fr Why did he say they were dangerous?

[@RFC3514]

The code for aluminium wiring on eBay is "tinned copper". :-P

[@Rainbow__cookie]

If you connect 240v to amplifier Is this what we call AC/DC 😂

[@muaries12]

I love the change in his voice when he switches from joking to dead serious because its his actual line of work

[@PoignantPirate]

Just for extra information on Clive's comment @6:35: Edit: since youtube 'folds' comments, i'm moving this part to the top. "If you like your heartbeat to be stable and/or present, NEVER OPERATE EQUIPMENT WITHOUT A SOLID GROUND/EARTH CONNECTION." The issue with 'ground hum' happens when two areas are connected to earth from different locations at slightly different potential. There are better ways to deal with it, like optical isolation, or using ADAT/TOSLINK to remove the electrical connections between distant gear but 'Lifting' or isolating can actually reduce/remove ground loops for gear connected to different electrical circuits (or usually sub-panels) in venues that aren't wired well. THAT SAID: Lifting the ground on audio equipment should only be done if you're also *specifically running a dedicated ground line from the lifted gear back to a central location*. Again: If you like your heartbeat to be stable and/or present, NEVER OPERATE EQUIPMENT WITHOUT A SOLID GROUND/EARTH CONNECTION.

[@jakehallam7536]

I think you have just saved my actual life for the future, was about to extend the XLR cable for my smoke machine but then saw this video and decided to check the continuity between live plug pin and the XRL control and they were electrically connected! You are a life saver

[@RoadRunnerLaser]

My investigation (shown in my video of a unit purchased from a UK supplier) demonstrates that not only is the XLR live when the unit is not powered up, it's still live even if the fuse is blown or not present (as your diagram also shows). These things are a serious death-trap.

[@sphawthorne]

I have first hand experience with a similar smoke machine. I plugged the XLR into a multi core which was connected to a mixing desk. The idea was to have the wireless receiver beside the desk so the remote would work without any issue. Safe to say, the second the XLR from the smoke machine was plugged into the multi core, it killed the desk instantly. Good job it was my desk, but I learnt the hard way

[@millomweb]

A dead desk is slightly better than a dead operator.

[@ketas]

at least it wasn't first hand experience, literally!

[@simontay4851]

Did you manage to repair it.

[@sphawthorne]

@@simontay4851 Yes, it was an analogue desk so a bit of soldering sorted it out

[@lawhec]

"Does not post to Isle of Man" - living in Northern Ireland, I feel that pain, also often felt by those in the Highlands & Islands of Scotland, the Channel Islands, and sometimes even the Isle of Wight in England! What's absurd is that while in this example the item might be heavy & large enough to require sending via courier, there are loads of other stuff on eBay that is clearly small & light enough to be sent via the post and which they actually do, but still refuse to sell their wares to far flung places like Belfast, Inverness, Derry or even sometimes Aberdeen let alone to the IoM even though sending it via Royal Mail costs the same to send it to these places as it does to London, Glasgow or Cardiff! And it's almost always from sellers that have "UK Warehouses", wherever they have stock legitimately imported or otherwise, that are otherwise based in China. That's because almost all actual UK based & resident sellers know that sending something via Royal Mail is a flat rate to anywhere in the country, so no reason to cockblock potential sales as there's no additional postage cost. The same idiocy extends to stock that is held in Asia in the first place, sent via International post. I guess that souls like myself aren't that big in number as a % of the population that we can be cast off from being potential customers. Yeah, it does grind my gears! 🤬 Oh, and as for the smoke machine, the only good thing that likely death trap seems to be good for (unless as a few others have suggested is to seal the connection to the remote module, but even then it's not great) is for its remote control. Just take it with you to a live music venue or nightclub/disco that has stuff like smoke machines and if your remote can activate them when you push any of the four buttons, that's a sign to at the very least be cautious, or just get the f**k out of there because if the club owner is using shitty cheap electrics that are a potential hazard, then what other corners are they also cutting, aside from diluting down the beer before it reaches the taps at the bar? Rant over!

[@jasonlee3247]

lawhec I wouldn’t worry, you won’t be living in “N Ireland” for much longer

[@quibster]

"drop-shipping" companies like the ones that resell a lot of stuff on ebay, be it nationally or internationally, do operate on low margins with fairly large amount of losses, due to selling these untested rushed out products that will more than likely be DOA, faulty or just crap. anyway, they process a looot of refunds and replacements, one way for them to cut losses is to arbitrate or restrict their shipping locations to places that don't process as many refunds or replacements. it's not usually permanent, they may even do it only to say they won't process a replacement, especially for larger objects. that also happens to some specific objects which are screened by the likes of RM/Hermes/generic couriers, etc, which they list on their respective sites.

[@hecticscone]

just move somewhere not shit lol

[@driverdoozer]

It's a conspiracy to block the IOM in an attempt to stop Clive exposing shoddy practices.

[@obviouslytwo4u]

@@driverdoozer do you even know what the word conspiracy means? as you've used it incorrectly here

[@SuperBoobaloo]

I imagine Clive's house looking a bit like the electricals skip at my recycling centre, but lit like a Christmas tree.

[@simontay4851]

Do you salvage stuff out of it.

[@Kudos1799]

Did you ever watch "Steptoe & Son" ?

[@SuperBoobaloo]

@@simontay4851 I've tried. Once I walked off with a TV and got shouted at by the recycling centre nazis.

[@AAAyyyGGG]

@@SuperBoobaloo the trick is to intercept stuff before it gets dumped - but that means waiting like a hawk until something good turns up then asking the 'dumper' if you can take it of their hands...

[@NOWThatsRichy]

@@AAAyyyGGG 'Money for nothing' stylee' , the BBC show!

[@tazz1669]

Could you just glue the remote DMX into the device, so it couldn't be removed

[@bigclivedotcom]

That would definitely be a good idea.

[@dglcomputers1498]

@Matt Quinn Yes, if you need a cheap smoke machine go to a decent supplier (i.e. Thomann.de) and buy one of their own brand machines, guaranteed to be safe.

[@millomweb]

My question is - whether there's any need for 240V to leave the smoke m/c in any case.If 5V relay, the whole XLR & cable need only be 5V ?????

[@rimmersbryggeri]

@@millomweb Yeah they just make them hideously cheaply. Strange they put xlr jackson them becasue they cost money.

[@eddiespencer1]

Even if it's glued in, someone with more determination than brains will, inevitably, break it free to plug something else in.

[@HarmonicaMustang]

Hum in audio is a pain, so to avoid the bad auditory experience and an even worse death experience from missing ground, ground lift was invented. It's designed to disconnect the ground connected to an audio console and the ground coming in from various sources, but never un-grounding either end of the signal chain so you can be safe that the metal fader you're touching isn't live, and the strings you're about to pluck on your guitar won't be the fire you thought you were looking for. Removing ground altogether is stupid, you should never sacrifice your health and safety for some gig.

[@PoignantPirate]

Unfortunately, lifting still has some serious drawbacks even if you make sure to have a solid ground from remote/stage equipment back to the main panel.. Clive mentioned one in the video: Differences between *stage ground* and *instrument ground* can be pretty dramatic and it's nearly impossible to isolate the entire stage to make sure that the only ground is the intended path back to the main panel. There's no excuse for lifting grounds anymore. Isolators and optical/data runs are extremely cheap compared to even 10 years ago. Spend the relative tiny amount of extra cash to make sure your setup is safe.

[@jobblejosh9713]

I agree with PoignantPirate. If you're having mains hum problems that you just can't fix, using a GLI (Ground Loop Isolator, effectively just a cleverly packaged transformer) is the simplest and cheapest option. Professional setups may have single-point grounding, where all the equipment is connected to the same ground 'line', which feeds into a single grounding point, which essentially eliminates the issues of a ground loop. Whatever happens, it's never worth the risk of bypassing the ground pin on a device's power supply. In the worst case, it will kill you. Dead. And it can be a trivial fault like two wires touching accidentally. Not worth the risk.

[@tomboxyz5564]

When making audio cables, I use 3 wire shielded cables for 3 pin connectors (TRS jack and XLR) I then connect the shield to the ground pin on one end only, this avoids ground loops in the cable itself, in case of ground loops between equipment, I just use signal isolation transformers, never lift the ground on the power, separate signal instead

[@tomboxyz5564]

Also, if you have guitar + mic, connect the power to the equipment as close to each other as possible (limits possible ground difference)

[@bigclivedotcom]

Good quality wireless microphones are a godsend for this too.

[@86abaile]

"In China, do they just not understand the concept of electrical safety?" *checks liveleak* NO! I don't think they understand any concept of safety.

[@TheMrVengeance]

Profit > safety.

[@JesusisJesus]

There is no Chinese word for “safety” - absolutely no translation whatsoever.

[@SheepInACart]

@@JesusisJesus Don't confuse don't care with don't know, safety (安全) is perfectly widely understood, but its a socially held commons, and like its physical analog it suits any one individual to pilfer it for as much as they can get away with, even though everybody would be better off on average if they where more discerning. Not providing safety makes other people pay the cost, a misuse of intelligence, not misfortune from ignorance.

[@BenjaminEsposti]

They're communists ... each individual person is worth almost nothing.

[@deusexmachinareznov4975]

***GUTTER OIL INTENSIFIES***

[@youghurt2k]

Funny... they make a switchmode supply in the machine itself, and send 240 volts to another supply in the receiver. Why not just send 9 volt through, and use a cheaper connector?

[@bulk88z]

They dont send 240v to the XLR connector. The heating element is wired in series with the XLR connector, as a "safety resistor"/linear voltage regulator.

[@veraxis9961]

I have a co-worker who is in a band tell me something similar to what you said about the mic and guitar being at different potentials. He tells me that it is not unheard of at rock concerts for the guitarist to high-five the bassist and cause both to get a shock from completing the circuit between them.

[@veraxis9961]

@john hansberry Would certainly make the effect worse if there were a potential difference between the two.

[@ChurchOfTheHolyMho]

Uncle Doug has a few videos about leaky voltages in musical amps on his channel. For me, my Dad taught me from a kid to touch the guitar strings to the mic first (without touching anything) and look for sparks.

[@sumilidero]

yeah people 'ground lift' amps when they couple thru earth and buzz a lot; then just a short way to get zapped, as its very easy for the stuff to get damaged while 'tour handling'

[@markburton3306]

Way back in the mists of time, when I worked in TV. I had to safety test a school kids guitar amp for a popular live kids programme. The tester failed, so I took the plug apart to investigate. Not only had somebody disconnected the Earth, said wire had connected itself to live. That could have ended badly

[@czonczike630]

This is the cheapest and easiest way to make any guitar, an electric guitar.

[@legionitalia309]

“Y’all ready for this?” -Immediately starts humming the song. Damn you Clive! Now I’ll never get it out of my head.

[@peterg.8245]

Legionitalia not quite the same in his Scottish accent, but we need to get him to sing that song ...bonus for death daleks dancing

[@MrJtappin]

Dum Dum, Dum Dum Dum Dum... Lol

[@Gu1tar1st]

Jaw dropped when I saw what you looked like; listening to someone’s voice, you have a picture in your head as to what they look like. I was imagining a slim, clean shaven, younger person. Excellent videos. Thanks for posting.

[@bigclivedotcom]

That's why I rarely show my face on this channel. There's a different channel for face videos. (BigCliveLive)

[@zx8401ztv]

A small switchmode could feed the remote with 24v and the return wire back to the smoke machine would energise a mains 24v relay. No high voltage gets out of the box.

[@dj1NM3]

I imagine the meeting went something like this: i.imgflip.com/3m92q6.jpg

[@johnopalko5223]

Agreed, but that would add cost. A lot of people aren't interested in paying extra money just for, well, not getting killed.

[@strehlow]

Right. They put a low voltage supply (even if just a capacitive dropper) and a relay in the remote. Why not just put them in the main unit with ground, B+, and control return on the XLR? The LED driver could probably be the basis of its PSU too.

[@oliverpowell3141]

Sound engineer here, learnt a lot of useful tips from your videos that have helped me on the job and my degree. Very useful advice about the AV and entertainment industry as I have just finished university studying music and was looking towards that sector. I think it's worth working somewhere that will give training, I applied for a facilities role at a music college that desired people with PAT testing , as well as first aid health and safety and fire marshalling but offered to provide it you were an ideal candidate, so a good tip from me is to go for a company or role that provides that training. Though saying that experience is essential, so if you haven't got the education or experience, ask about and volunteer. My understanding yes earthing is important as it can get rid of hum and other unwanted noise. proper music studios and venues should have a seperate technical ground that should be a seperate earth reference to the general utility reference. other electrical appliances cause issues including hum as it becomes "contaminated". Even phone chargers create a buzzing and high pitched whines (presumably from the switch modes) through PA's, such as if you are charging a phone whilst it is connected to the PA with an aux to play music . The issue of ground loops and other unwanted noise can be the bane of any techie, but properley using and understanding your equipment will help you in those situations. DI (Direct Injection) boxes which convert high impedance signals like guitars to balanced line level signals have ground lift switches which are designed for that purpose. Often using lighting video and audio will cause issues all relating to grounding and interference. I worked in a venue where I was sound engineering and only had that issue once. I never disconnected earth or let anyone do so, though no one did. I am quite interested in how correct you are when it comes to getting proper into the industry. Luckily from my studies and career, I am very well experienced in audio and it electronics. Also Clive if you happen to read this essay, do more with audio devices and electronics. If you want, I have a dead rack amount DJ mixer with 3 mic inputs and 4 stereo RCA connections for decks you can tear down and talk about. I found it discarded by a bin and thought this could be fun to hack Another note about ground loop hums - vinyl turntables need to be connected to chasis ground to prevent hum. Haha.

[@PDeRop]

I've seen electrocution first hand. A colleague of mine was assembling a computer. The computer case (tower) was badly put together. And as he grabbed the frame, he no longer could let go. He cut both his hands on the iron frame, and as he fell back, the plug came out.. releasing him from 220V. He could not scream. His mouth was clenched shut. It was a very eery experience. It dawned only slowly to the rest of us, that something was wrong. He just stood there, hunched over a computer. Then he fell back and was able to scream.

[@LarixusSnydes]

Fortunately he could still scream afterwards.This will probably have damaged his both his jaw and teeth. I am glad he survived the ordeal. As a toddler I watched a friend of my parents fumble about while replacing a light bulb and get electrocuted, standing with bare feet on an aluminium ladder. This made such a big impression on me that I had nightmares about electricity for years to come, complete with laserbeams from sockets, computer CRT's and fluorescent lights exploding. Now that I understand a little bit more about electricity, I took up electronics as a hobby. I leave the high current stuff to the professionals though.

[@mojoich2736]

sounds like a DC line short

[@PDeRop]

mojo ich does DC also make your muscles cramp? I thought only AC did that. Thanks. Interesting.

[@Kudos1799]

@@PDeRop Hence the number of deaths from folk touching the "3rd rail", that is DC.

[@PDeRop]

@@Kudos1799 thanks. didn't know that. I thought DC was for short distances. Very interesting.

[@1973retrorabbit]

So... do we think there's a link between you ordering stuff and then it going on a "don't deliver to the Isle Of Man" list?

[@millomweb]

Maybe extra shipping costs that they weren't aware of until sending stuff to Clive? Anyone handy living in Heysham ?

[@1973retrorabbit]

@@millomweb it's the same cost if it's sent by royal mail, couldn't say for sure if you sent it by a private courier company. I know I won't buy from any company that refuses to ship to the Highlands or any island around the UK because I know the royal mail and parcel force don't charge any extra. (I live near Glasgow, so it doesn't directly affect me, just annoys me).

[@millomweb]

@@1973retrorabbit The problem is other couriers aren't obliged to work the same as RM/Parcelforce so can make easy routes cheaper more competitive and then refuse to offer trickier routes/destinations. Same issues have applied to bus companies - and that's why public service vehicles ran some routes at a complete loss. I suspect it's only the big cities and towns that have good bus services any longer. Even those places, services have dropped off. When you can walk home, it's cheaper and better for you health-wise, why use the bus ! I've even found I've still walked despite the bus service being free of charge.

[@1973retrorabbit]

@@millomweb yeah, I know. That's the problem with all this stuff being privatised... It "increases competition" or more accurately, jack's up the price and reduces the service... Annoyingly, while often using the royal mail infrastructure.

[@LieseFury]

@@1973retrorabbit private couriers are as parasitic as telecoms. we have the same issue with FedEx and UPS over here in the US.

[@Ray2Jerry]

"Take it to the nightclub and mess with their smoke machine" reminds me of when I would use my remote control watch to fast forward and mess with boring educational movies in middle school... they never figured out why the VCR sometimes had a mind of its own 😂🤣

[@Landie_Man]

Ray2Jerry people had watches which did this.

[@Landie_Man]

john hansberry great fun!

[@JAMESMANHUNT9]

@James Sloan my parents know i can control the entire direct tv system in the house from my phone

[@Dekko-chan]

3:34 i just love the amount of like disgust dripping off the word “excellent”

[@robroysyd]

This unit may add a whole new context to "live mic". On the upside no great electrical engineering skill required to make these units safe. All the difficult stuff is already done and for a reasonable price.

[@sumilidero]

And the singer would go 'on air'

[@FerralVideo]

I just yard-sale'd and repaired (leaky suction line) one of these with the IEC connector for the remote. It's a delicious one that has no last-resort thermostat...

[@gdrriley420]

I happy I learned much of my audio and electrical stuff from people who were working their last few years in theater and broadcast TV in school. There was never any serious rush and plenty of time to chat and pick their brains. I also spent about a year under an audio and electrical engineer who did lots of prototyping. That combined with spending time at my current work around 480V 3 phase in a data center I know just how much you need to respect electricity.

[@aaronwilliams1249]

I worked one venu which was fed by two different substations. We saw a 90V difference between grounds in the same room. It made power fun. We powered everything off of camlock. Someone plugged their own equipment into a local outlet and plugged it into the AV system. There was a loud pop. Since then they have updated their electrical system.

[@bigclivedotcom]

Had similar in the past. We had strict optical data isolation between zones.

[@aaronwilliams1249]

@@bigclivedotcom What was fun was we had only one 30A extension cord to run all of the AV equipment and since the projectors were using VGA we had to run extension cords back to the projectors from it otherwise the grounding problems prevented them from working. We had to be careful since the voltage tended to drop from 120 down to 90V and bad things happened when we were not careful. That was a setup from hell. We were much better prepared in subsequent years. A lot of the equipment was ancient for the time and some very heavily modified and hacked. We had a SCSI MPEG decoder box leftover from some home shopping TV channel. We had to encode everything for it and had some custom software to drive the thing. We used baluns where possible, but those didn't seem to work well with the projectors. The organization had a shoestring budget but a lot of talented geeks on hand. It was a lot of baling wire to make square pegs fit in round holes. I'm amazed the whole thing worked. Most of the equipment was 2nd or 3rd hand.

[@Tump2010]

the chinese mentality in regard to this stuff in my theory is "What parts can we get for under a penny each, oh, that shouldn't be used for this but hey we got them for half a penny each, lets go for it." :-D

[@rdizzy1]

That would be the same as US corporations as well if we didn't have regulations in place to stop them from doing so. Capitalism only cares about profits, inherently.

[@AndrewWalsh43]

There's Nothing like a Live XLR Cable to bring some Excitement to the Party !!

[@dglcomputers1498]

Just a correction the supplied IEC cable is fused, the whole length of mains lead is the fuse wire! And as for removing ground loops, transformer isolation of the audio line(s) causing the ground loop is one of the only safe ways of doing it, sometimes removing the ground on one or more of the AUDIO cables can cure it but as Clive said, NEVER EVER EVEN THINK ABOUT REMOVING THE MAINS GROUND ON ANY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. Oh and as you may well know DMX cables are fine for audio use (inc. AES/EBU (AES3) but not the other way round as normal analogue audio XLR cables don't have the correct impedance (110 ohm) for DMX. Standard audio grade XLR cables can be used for MIDI however as it's part of the standard, with the Voyetra 8 being the most well known use of audio XLR for MIDI to connect the VPK remote keyboard to the synthesizer rack.

[@bigclivedotcom]

This doesn't stop people using audio cables for data, and they usually get off with it until one day it doesn't work and the lighting starts glitching as the show starts.

[@dglcomputers1498]

@@bigclivedotcom Quite, and the lack of DMX terminators too, in some ways it's the manufacturers fault for using the cheaper 3 pin XLR. In all fairness this problem can be removed by just using 110 ohm AES3/DMX cable on all XLR3 leads as it's perfectly fine to use it for analogue audio i.e. shop.sommercable.com/en/Cable/Bulk-Cable-Audio/DMX-Binary-234-AES-EBU-MKII-520-0051.html

[@gantmj]

Removing ground stops hum if the equipment's internal ground doesn't reference the chassis. It happens once in awhile, and more often with the spread of cheap gear. It also stops video output hum lines. I always have ground lift plugs just in case, when there isn't time to open up gear and rewire, or if it isn't my place to rewire someone's gear. Always meter afterwards to make sure death will not occur.

[@secondlyf2545]

Thanks for the info ,i just bought one and God directed me to watch this video first. Amen

[@strudders2112]

BigClive single-handedly protecting the Isle of Man from cheap electrical tat from the internet...

[@Kayshots]

*Like when it is broken, mhm it starts smoking, thats so good, it works!* 1 minute later: *Explodes*

[@DustinWatts]

That's why these types of mics come with a "shockmount"!

[@johncrowerdoe5527]

Nope. That's just to silence the mechanical shock of someone dropping dead on stage next to the microphone stand.

[@Sylvan_dB]

Thank you for the explanation of combined thermostat and thermal fuse. I had not yet figured that, and of course it is now blindingly obvious!

[@CoolDudeClem]

Some of my electronics projects end up becomming smoke machines!

[@d74g0n]

One of my mothers stories is about being at a concert in the 70's and the singer was acting so crazy moving wildly she said to her sister 'people these days are acting crazier than ever' but then found out later he was being electrocuted by his mic.

[@lodzalater8169]

For years I always wondered how you look. You look great dude

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

I used to work for a company that made DMX lighting controllers. Once we received one back for repair, and we discovered that a varistor that protected the DMX output was completely gone, leaving only a scorched crater in its place. *sigh*

[@Kineth1]

I like how the schematic shows the remote receiver looking like it's waving "Bye bye!"

[@jaycee1980]

Any audio guy caught disconnecting safety grounds should be prosecuted. If it stops hum, then find the real cause of the ground loop, or use isolating transformers. Even as an amateur I know that.

[@bigclivedotcom]

That's where they'll indignantly rant about audio isolation transformers tainting the audio.

[@jaycee1980]

@@bigclivedotcom Quite so, and if it was a hi-fi set up you might notice it... on a PA system though? Not a chance

[@brucegoatly]

Hang on, aren't the pins on the XLR connector on the back of the unit at mains voltage themselves? That doesn't seem safe...

[@Berkeloid0]

Well at least they used the female XLR connector and not the male one, so in theory you won't be able to touch the live contacts.

[@SeanBZA]

@@Berkeloid0 Yes, but many microphone cables connect the shield to the shell, and that will land up at mains potential.

[@dglcomputers1498]

Looks like it suffers from the pin 1 problem ;-)

[@Berkeloid0]

@@SeanBZA Yep, but that issue was covered in the video.

[@piratedprivacy9052]

SeanBZA Perhaps they shouldnt use pin1 of XLR to run live wires. the live wire should be routed thru pin2 or pin3 😀😀😀

[@sparkplug1018]

I did a lot of work on a site that had this serious hum issue, and no matter what they tried they couldn't nail it down and the only thing that stopped it was to disconnect the earth. So we got called to track this down. Turns out, the company that had done the electrical work had swapped the neutral and ground in every single stage light plug. So instead of the current feeding back through the neutral as it should have the lights were using the earth instead, which caused all kinds of issues for the audio. Surprisingly no one was injured because of this. I should also point out that the company that did the install were qualified electricians, but had no experience wiring stage plugs. The flat plugs we use in the US have to pins close together and a third way out on the right edge, and is wired neutral earth live. Turns out a lot of people assume the 2 that are close together must be the live and neutral.

[@TheDefpom]

@11:00 I have about 20 of those remotes and receiver modules for use in projects, very common and easy to get.

[@broofallbros3036]

Removing ground reduces hum? I installed ground to remove it.... 12Db nose difference with my tube microphone

[@Jcshh]

This whole trend of china sticking LED's on absolutely everything has to stop

[@muzallisam5068]

Tell. That to pc parts manufacturers. Look at ces. All are upping their rgb game

[@johncrowerdoe5527]

This device actually needs LEDs to give the colored smoke effect.

[@jonathantan2469]

Wait till you drive around many Asian cities today. Annoying LED screen-signs everywhere. It's like a 3rd rate Times Square...

[@r1asimon01]

What would work as a connector is a greater than 3 pin XLR, using a 4 PIN as Colarram did would work because it COULD NOT be confused with DMX 3/5 pin or audio

[@unfa00]

Holy snap, I was pondering getting one of these, and I thought the XLR connector is there because it's DMX compatible, but what a nasty surprise it'd be to try doing that... Thanks for the warning.

[@jamesbrown4092]

The reason the switch is on the neutral instead of the live is to ensure that all three XLR pins are kept at mans voltage for all your electrocution needs. Something that seems a bit insidious with this design is that you could conceivably connect something to the XLR and have nothing bad happen (because all pins are at the same 240V, and presuming there's no earth path on the connected device). You can then turn the smoke machine on and have nothing bad happen because the pins are still at 240V. However, a short time later when the thermostat cuts out and pin three goes from 240 to near 0 volts: SURPRISE!

[@JohnnyX50]

Years ago I had a powder grey NJD fog machine. It had an IEC Female socket for the remote. The remote had a red momentary rocker switch and a red LED that came on when it was ready to fog. The machine was quite large and heavy, it had a bigger tank in it and could take about 1 litre of fluid as I recall. The problem was the 'smoke' although really dense and foggy, made you cough a little bit. It made your mouth dry and it stuck to everything in the room leaving a sticky resedue on painted surfaces. I eventually threw it away as I think the fluid went bad as it wouldnt pump through any more and the cost of new fluid went up beyond being worth buying. Then the NJD shop closed down lol so it all ended up in the bin. However I do still have 2 PAR36 6V pinspots (hefty transformer inside) and 2xPAR36 'scanners' with seperate motor/lamp wiring (4 core wire) I got for doing a couple of free shifts in the pub I worked at. The scanners have a possitionable bolt that determines the 'bounce back' possition.. I looked up at the rig and the manager grabbed his ladder and just hoyked them down LOL. Bizzarly enough the lamps actually still work, and I found if they do go out, a gentle tap on the glass brings the fillament back into contact ha ha :D They must be getting on for being 27 years old now !!! I still have a roll of red and purple heat resist 'gel' I got at the time too. Not sure if PAR36 bulbs and the coloured plastic are still available to buy anymore?? It was the stuff you cut to size and stick in front of the bulb to give you the colours you want. I love the old disco lighting, so retro :)

[@davidelsbury2917]

An acquaintance modified a smoke machine once- he wired the pump directly (via a second transformer) to a second IEC inlet on the rear panel and drove it from a switch pack. Worked fine as long as you remembered to let the machine get up to temperature so as to avoid it pissing streams of lukewarm fog fluid out the front!

[@matt-im6wp]

Truer words on the events and live entertainment industry have never been spoken.

[@mrodriguez4829]

Some of the early Martin Mac lights utilized both XLR/DMX connectors. Cyberlights, Technobeams, Studio Spot etc. used strictly 3-pin XLR. I’ve got 5 Mac Entour 250s that used both 3-/5-pin XLR or DMX (whatever you want to call it)

[@deepblueskyshine]

These 3-pins button shaped things usually are not just resonators but complete oscilators based on a ceramic resonator. They are often used in remote controls as an RF section by themselves or sometimes with a single transistor amplifire.

[@BoB4jjjjs]

The three pin connector to the remote sensor is a hazard, but why they didn't make the second thermostat a thermal cut out is beyond me. It just appears so stupid. There is no indication that the first thermostat has failed either, so it just runs at possibly a slightly higher temperature. But it has some danger in it and that is excellent!

[@aj200415]

“Take to your perfect shitty nightclub”. I just laughed wayyyy to hard and long at that!

[@SeanBZA]

Switching neutral and fuse in live because that saves one wire and two solder operations extra.

[@The0Meerkat]

Yep. That's pretty much the same as mine. The only difference is mine came with a second RF remote for the LEDs (that also only works when smoke is being produced so you cant cue a colour in advance). It's installed in a hobby lighting rig that no one else has unsupervised access to, so safe enough.

[@peterburi2727]

What got my attention was"240 volt XLR socket" giving new meaning to the "hot mike" saying.

[@SiamWoodShop]

Love your videos, Living in Thailand I have similar issues with electrical systems (what is safety?) Although I must say that a few of the manufacturers of products here are now using ISO. The problem being there doesn't appear to be any certification for electrical workers . So, earth circuits lead to nowhere.

[@oorcinus]

Long long time ago, during the dawn of RepRap and other assorted home 3D printing jiggery pokery, at an unnamed local aditive manufacture meetup, i met a guy who - for some unknown reason - “repaired” his old laptop power brick with a barrel-type plug on the 240V side, and a matching 240V mains to barrel plug pigtail. He then - again, for some unknown reason - decided to use the exact same barrel plug on his RepRap Mendel’s controller board. My head was right next to his printer when he plugged the wrong cable into the wrong receptacle. The only things i remember were a flash, a bang, and capacitor confetti falling down. There was some soot and a few scratches on my face too, where the capacitor caps hit me. That was the moment on time i finally and definitely understood the importance of using the right (and unambiguous) connector standard for the right thing.

[@BlackEpyon]

Yeah, we lifted the grounds on the IEC cords for the powered speakers at my old school (I used to do the AV setup). I tried to convince budget to fork out a few bucks to pick up a dual isolation transformer instead, to play it safe,, but being a primarily Dutch community (I won't name any names), they couldn't be bothered. And for added fun, our foggier machine had the female IEC plug on the back for the remote.

[@Sparky95]

I have an old 100W mercury vapor UV inspection light that has A 3 pin XLR between the ballast and bulb, and it always seemed wrong. The ballast and capacitor are in the cast aluminium base with a fuse, switch, and female XLR connector, and the bulb is in a pistol grip handled spotlight can type housing that has a coiled cord with the XLR male connector. Thankfully the shell is connected to the ground pin, and the cord carries the ground to the lamp housing too. I don't see why a UV inspection spotlight would need to be extended, or even be around entertainment equipment in the first place, but I'd imagine there would be some excitement if A/V equipment got plugged into a mercury vapor ballast.

[@lostjohnny9000]

An extra layer of protection for the guitarist is to 'earth' the strings via a capacitor. A 400V 10nF cap is enough to ground the hum while limiting current from a dodgy mic to a survivable level. It's not a fix and I bet a lot of guitar techs would scoff at this but just for live use, I've decoupled the strings on my Ibanez Artist and the hum stops just as it would with a direct earth wire.

[@jf3570]

I have a somewhat-similar "built to a price" 400W machine. No funky LEDs, and no remote; it has a 1 metre permanent cord leading to a hand-held activation "button". The "button" is actually an illuminated spring-loaded momentary rocker switch with a green "neon" (neon/xenon mix + phosphor?) bulb that lights up when the machine is ready. So yes, mains voltage is in the wired remote. (At least it's permanently wired though! No XLRs!) My pet-peeve however is the AC wiring in my machine was (until I modified it) nearly identical as the machine featured here -- a thermal breaker opens when the heater reaches max. temp., when then allows the pump and pilot light to be powered in series through the low-resistance heater. Great for the pilot light... but garbage for the pump! Because with these designs, the machines are only capable of operating when the heating element is COOLING DOWN! (ie. thermal breakers snapped open) As soon as the heater drops to min. temp. and the thermal breakers re-close, the pump remains disabled -- even while the heater is once again passing through a perfectly viable temperature band -- leaving you locked out all this time until the heater hits max. temp. again! I would suggest for anyone who has a machine like this, modify the wiring so the pump remains operational at all times (but leave the pilot light in series through the heater). Then you're never locked-out of using your machine; smoke/fog is available at all times that the heater is at a viable temperature range! (Worst-case situation, you activate the pump when the machine is cold, and it just squirts a sticky slimy mess on the floor.) Of course, only do the modification if you know what you're doing, if you can make the new connections safe, and if there's no legal prohibition against you modifying your machine, for the application in which it will be used.

[@jf3570]

Addendum: If so inclined, you could add an extra thermal breaker to the heater, with a temperature setpoint somewhat below the heater's min. cycling temp., but still hot enough to vapourize the liquid. Wire the pilot light and pump through this extra thermal breaker, so that it locks out the pump when cold, but lets the pump run any time the heater is at a viable temperature... no matter where in its heating cycle... and keeps the pilot light on at all times the pump is enabled. Also in general, I recommend to anyone who modifies equipment that they affix a sticker or some other method of clearly indicating on the equipment that it has been modified. Especially if the equipment may be operated or handled by other people, or sold (even if just for scrap) in the future.

[@kimsleep4111]

I love pumping this smoke across dry ice...you get that wonderful deep laying fog

[@amunak_]

The reason neutral is going to the switch instead of live is that there are different standards for which is which in different countries (you even have IEC cables with left or right live depending). So what you think is neutral is most likely live to them.

[@pizzablender]

There should be a thermal fuse on either end of a heating element so it switches off if it develops an internal short to ground. In case of no ground fault interrupter. Note that in many countries, plugs are non-polarized.

[@mutetus]

Holy smoke! That sound when you turned it on was all of a sudden so loud I almost fell off my chair. At least I got that adrenaline rush I needed, kind of the same as when you get electrocuted.

[@DaveLennonCopeland]

Being electrocuted on stage ain't fun... have had it happen to me, years back in the 90s. The first time was a live mic, I got zapped in the face, and the second time my bass amp was live (somehow?) and got a shock when I touched the power on switch... All good in the end though... :)

[@Gold63Beast]

Great product for ElectroBoom. Plug in a microphone 😈

[@GiddeonFox]

I think China has plenty of people who know what they're doing and make things to good safety standards, and just like in other countries they cost a relatively lot of money to hire. So if you're going to build a cheap piece of crap to throw on ebay or the local market or whatever you're instead just going to get whoever you can. What are they gonna do, sue the imaginary company you're selling it under? I remember a guy who lives in Shenzhen once mentioned to me that he'd sometimes pass people on the side of the road with signs like "Will do circuit board layouts for food", so yeah.

[@YellowPinkie]

The problem arises that you as the importer are responsible for compliance and safety - if someone gets injured or killed from your smoke machine, you're the one that goes to prison.

[@flymario8046]

Wait... what??? No "One Moment plllzzzzzzz" today? I come here for that one thing!

[@bo0tsy1]

The XLR was designed to handle 120v 15 Amp 60Hz. But those are switchcraft plugs. The chinese knockoff connectors are dubious. The pins get loose with any amount of soldering, but the price of using the correct connector is often the price of the unit you are working on.

[@MrFlint51]

I once did the "guitar vs microphone vs mains" thing.A now-closed guitar shop in Bath St, Glasgow lent me a Marshall valve amp while they repaired mine. Unknown to me someone had disconnected the earth wire inside the plug "to prevent hum". All was well until I went to adjust my microphone while resting my right hand against the strings. There was a flash and a bang as my left arm flexed, the microphone touched the strings, and it flew out of my hand, disconnecting me from the earthed microphone

[@bigclivedotcom]

That's more than just a missing earth. It was either a botched input cap replacement or vintage live chassis valve amplifier where mains polarity is important. I'd love to have had a look at that to see what happened.

[@MrFlint51]

@@bigclivedotcom Yes, it was a 1960's valve amp with a live chassis. Someone told me that the chassis was referenced to the anode of the output valve (EL34 I think)

[@bigjoeangel]

For the sake of £5, just get the CPC one. You could glue the XLR connector into the socket, so there's no (less) chance of someone accidently plugging something else in. It's a bit of a dodgy bodge, but it's a hell of a lot safer than not doing that. Also you'd need to put a decent plug on the kettle lead, so that's an extra expense. Just get a safer one to begin with. Another aproach would be to employ a vaping enthusiast to stand at the side of the stage and produce massive clouds of vapour orally.

[@bdf2718]

It is possible to get mechanical thermal cut-outs that don't automatically reset when the temperature goes down. Usually such cut-outs have a little button on them that you have to press to reset them. It's possible to construct one of those without the button, so that once it's opened, it can never be reset. So it's possible the safety one is non-resettable, but I very much doubt that it is.

[@raymondmucklow3793]

Now I'm heading out to the garage to check the smoke machine I haven't used in 8 years. 😁

[@bigclivedotcom]

I bet its pump's gunked up.

[@twotone3070]

@@bigclivedotcom It's an age thing.

[@nojusurbutis6426]

That connector is DMX not XLR

[@thetriggerhappypwner]

The plug itself is dangerous. It has no fuse which is a requirement. It is also possible that when unplugging it, because there is little space between the live and neutral prongs, the person touching the plug could get a very nasty shock.

[@thehappylittlefoxakabenji8154]

The XLR connector is rated for mains voltage as is the Din Plug but I wouldn't use either above 50V I do remember having an old Mixer which ran on 24AC and that used an XLR but you couldn't connect a standard three pin XLR to it

[@HowardLeVert]

Thirty years ago there was such a thing as the mains-rated XLR connector - but although the shell was dimensionally the same as an XLR, the pinning was completely incompatible with anything else and all the plastics were red in colour. Look up "Neutrik XLR-LNE". It's a pity people don't get prosecuted for selling dangerous shite. As for working in the entertainment industry; I've done so for 36 years. And if anyone asks me how they can get into it, I say "Don't. There are better, less stressful ways of making a living."

[@crashk6]

In all fairness, I'd say the whole machine with it's apparent "normal functionality" coupled with massive electrical safety faults already falls into the category of "Worse case scenario".

[@bostedtap8399]

Space Age Technology, no Earth connection 😜.

[@stevet249]

Bosted Tap ooh, that’s clever. I’ll use it!

[@bostedtap8399]

@@stevet249 You're welcome, I think trademarks don't mean anything in space 🤔

[@SkeletonSyskey]

I wonder what would happen if this was connected with phantom power?

[@pelic9608]

I'm convinced this XLR connector is supposed to make the thing come across as some higher-tier DMX-capable machine, which makes it just so much worse. Imagine plugging that into your controller! 😲😖🤕 Granted, 3-pin XLR is prohibited by the DMX standard, for exactly that reason, but especially in the low-end market they are nontheless pretty common.

[@JesusisJesus]

Raphael Beer I think they used XLR because at the kind of places this thing would be used, would likely have mic cables readily available, but imo they have absolutely no reason to construct the thing with the remote receiver outside the case at all when you think about it.

[@BlackEpyon]

That was my thought as well. I've seen lots of 3-pin DMX devices.

[@pelic9608]

@@JesusisJesus I think big companies like Martin used to use 3-pin, before DMX was standardized in the late 80s. You know, someone came up with it, more and more adopted it - here and there modifying - and _then_ it was written to a standard. Anyway, besides the danger of mixups (phantom voltage on audio), microphone cables also have e.g. lower impedance and that can lead to signal degradation/loss. The really mean part is that your devices often do work with audio rated cables, but you still can experience loss of single commands. This one head not changing from white to red an ruining your grand finale or fun things like that. 😄

[@mattyhudson2081]

@@BlackEpyon yea loads of devices use xlr for signal, especially pro

[@comment2009]

Similar problem 5 - 6 years ago. Lighting guy plugged in a smoke machine from the band. It was DMX controllable, with 5 pin. Lights would not correctly operate. Neutral was active on the DMX data pin. Obviously could have been worse. U.S.120V.

[@dj1NM3]

This machine looks (if the LEDs are deleted) exactly like one I bought from a major hobby electronics retailer about 20 years ago, with the XLR Connector for the remote. The machine managed to turn an XLR lead into an external smoke generator when I pressed the remote button.

[@EGGWISHING]

Your videos are so fun to watch.

[@jakeclubinc]

A fascinating video, thank you Clive!

[@OAleathaO]

10:35 - "It's made down to a price and that also precludes safety." Safety is only included as long as it doesn't cost any extra or add much time to the manufacturing process.