BIGGEST StarCraft II Patch in YEARS

[@Harstem]

I will be releasing a video after playing the tournament with other progamers discussing, first week thoughts etc. Any pros in particular you want to see in there?

[@OsOkod]

GO FOR NEXT beating - Grandmaster with stupid stuff just Cyclones proxy everygame GG!

[@remcoheijnen8427]

I would love to see Sollar, considered the Broodlord changes. I do think he likes to play it and i would love to hear his thoughts on that change.

[@liamryden558]

MaxPax, Reynor, Clem.

[@kennytennyson4485]

Lambo and Solar

[@christianhornlimann3079]

would definately like to hear lambros thoughts on the patch

[@3v1lp1ngv1n]

Wow is this an even bigger balance patch than the previous biggest balance patch in years that was released 8 months ago? Incredible!

[@Harstem]

It did manage to outdo it :)

[@HungTran-gz5em]

@@Harstem We thank you for your hard work, this is beautiful

[@orangepearlf40]

Just shows you how sc2 is a playable game but it's a dumpster fire 🔥 broken-ass game that needs major adjustments. About time.

[@neruneri]

@@orangepearlf40 Brother, you're wildin if you legit think the game is a dumpsterfire. The relationship with its players and Blizzard has been a dumpster fire sure, but the game itself is remarkably balanced for a completely asymmetrical game. The biggest fault with the balance is that it's boring when stuff doesn't change.

[@orangepearlf40]

@@neruneri :)

[@kyozo7796]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how the Captain loves this game so much? I think it's incredible.

[@JustDux]

Who is Captain?

[@christinemorgan5379]

@@JustDux consult with your mother

[@bobgoatfrog]

​gotem

[@NuclearCincy]

Single handily keeping sc2 alive

[@mattstarbuck4878]

There is a reason he's the captain.

[@kylepalaian]

I cannot thank the people still supporting this game enough 😢 The fact that we have these amazing and passionate people still pouring their hearts and souls into this is just incredible

[@rustyshacky6795]

Just published the balance test branch of the Advanced Unit Tester to include these changes so everyone can easily test them. There's both an extension mod and an arcade map version.

[@xitaris5981]

Most of the updates are centered around adjusting power at a specific timing or in a specific scenario, so testing out of context of a game loses almost all value.

[@Quivex1]

@@xitaris5981 .....sure but that's not really the point of the unit tester. Testing out hyper specific unit interactions outside the context of a game IS the value of the unit tester....Like that's usually the point.

[@Toast_94]

Fancy seeing you here!

[@rustyshacky6795]

@@Toast_94 No way, it's Toast!

[@greatoztv4200]

​​@@Quivex1It gets even better than that, the Advanced Unit Tester mod Rusty made is an actual mod in addition to a separate map in the Arcade. Which means, you can set up a base on a specific map with a specific context in mind to test out a scenario. TL;DR, you can test in and out of context scenarios with Advanced Unit Tester.

[@Dusk-MTG]

I love how Harstem started joking on zergs for their 25 mineral cost reduction on ultralisks and then went enthusiast for a 50 mineral cost reduction on +3 shields

[@Triiiiangle]

What people don't generally understand about patch notes (at least the ones you've singled out on Reddit) is that you don't have to get direct buffs to your played race's units for that race to get a buff. A nerf to another race is/can be a buff to your race.

[@brendandavies9270]

Thank you for being a voice of reason through these changes. I was reading the reddit thread as it dropped and I wanted to flush my phone down the toilet

[@cirrus2472]

I’m actually really excited for these! Cyclone hellion is a really cool composition and I’d love to see more immortals or tempests.

[@Name-ru1kt]

Idk about tempest one. Tempest is better for lower end of the ladder since the kiting against yamato is actually very close. Idk about the top of ladder. I don’t think it will be too op but a lot stronger for sure specifically against zerg since now the mothership and tempest both are much easier to avoid getting abducted So lower end buff against terran. Higher end buff against zerg not as much against terran.(everything is in a big ball and pros can easily micro since you really have to bunch all the bc up to do anything anyways.) Cyclones are the most intresting one. If they aren’t broken op in tvz then tvt is very very interesting dynamic.

[@gavbav]

Baneling nerf is HUGE. Curious to see how that will change, if it does.

[@nibaldodmgmail]

reynor / serral will now run 11 banes into harstem mineral line, up from 10.

[@raphaelantoine7331]

​@@nibaldodmgmailthat's not how it works 😂, you need twice as much banelings to kill workers not 1 more 😅

[@patches_sc]

@@raphaelantoine7331 i mean… I think 10 banelings is still plenty to delete a mineral line despite the nerfs lol

[@raphaelantoine7331]

@@patches_sc I'm not talking about the quantity, I'm talking about the difference from the changes here. If you wanna argue about quantity, that will depend on the opponent base defense, whether or not he has cannons for example. But to say that a baseline of 10 will go to 11 from these changes is dumb but hey, Terra's haven't learned to count yet 😂

[@kanchou7698]

The hp nerf is going to be big for late game. As it is now, banes are like a meatshield that does damage on death. I'm interested to see how this would affect late ZvT.

[@drakorez]

I just really want to see how the new Cyclone works. I have thought that mech needed a more simple "bread and butter" type unit for ages, and hopefully this will fill that roll well enough. Everything that mech has is either really good or really bad depending on the enemy comp. It needs something like the Marine for bio or the Stalker for P that is just a solid all around unit to base the army around.

[@greenlitlleman]

You said it already - Terran already has marines as their universal unit, they don't need more

[@HappyFir3]

@@greenlitlleman This was pretty much my thought. Do they really need long range marines?

[@aloe7794]

​@@greenlitllemanthey do though a lot of terran builds always tend towards bio play because amassing every other situational and expensive unit will likely cause the opponent to build a counter to that unit and make the terran utterly just lose - and if you play mech, youre pretty much at a disadvantage when it comes to moving your entire army and defending, since your opponent can already chase after your undefended bases I feel like terran always needed that one other unit that they can base their compositions off of. I mean, look at other races and dont tell me that they base their strategies around one unit? protoss has stalkers, zealots or even phoenixes sometimes as their "bread and butter", zerg can choose from either lings roaches or hydras (in lurker comps) while terran has to kind of build expensive units up until they win or they lose from the war of attrition or just pick marines

[@greenlitlleman]

@aloe7794 Terran is probably the most diverse race in terms of viable unit compositions, just look at uThermal and his challenges. Amassing just one type of unit isn't a good tactic in a macro game regardless of the race and is something more suitable for cheese anyway. I think the change to cyclones will make any robo cheese a very broken strat as it will allow you to build three types of units that, together, can counter any early game composition.

[@joshuakim5240]

Kind of wish that the Cyclone had a new transformation mode to synergize with Hellbats rather than only Hellions, perhaps becoming a missiles-only Goliath with more hp but gutted movement speed. Then again, that would also kind of be bad for the game since that would result in a "do-everything" unit like the Marine and Stalker.

[@zwingler]

Love it. I am not too knowledgable about game balance but its super nice to see care and the risk to change things up.

[@MrMali22]

They nerfed the hell out of Zerg and Terran and nude Protoss. That's it.

[@sakesaurus]

​@@MrMali22if you nerf all three races, you're back to where you started

[@MrMali22]

@sakesaurus1706 what a dumb statement. Nerfinh certain things on one race vs another do not automatically cancel out. They overnerfed zerg and barely nerfed Terran

[@slicemup9]

We found the Zerg player @@MrMali22

[@Name-ru1kt]

zerg got nerfed against terran and terran got buffed against zerg.(cyclones are stronger and banelings are weaker and lurkers are slower.) Although the lurker change isn’t too significant. They buffed protoss against terran and nerfed terran against protoss(tempest can now more easily evade yamato and counter mass bc. Mothership became cd based. Ghost emp nerf ext) Now I actually think if zerg can survive 211 based attacks they actually are stronger than ever. Droplord change is huge and hydra change is huge and the ghost got nerfed. Funny enough they actually buffed banes against workers since carpet bombing with overlords is back. Tvt is actually the most intresting matchup out of all of them. Cyclones now are op as heck but tanks also got a buff since now interfix matrix hits later. Makes for a very intresting dynamic

[@bloootz]

Protoss is gonna be OP after the MAJOR stasis ward buff!! A new era of protoss supremacy as a result of the almighty stasis ward

[@AB-xo3pl]

The previous patch nerfed protoss quite a lot. Shield batteries weakened, disruptors weakened. Protoss hasn't made it to finals of major championships since then. If they end up nerfing again in this patch, then the race will die out completely...

[@ralphwarom2514]

Bruh, Gateway units need a buff. I just want the units to be worth the very high price. Currently I prefer playing as terran even though I am a protoss main. becase my units are actually good at their jobs.

[@Mnoukadlo]

Surprisingly fun video to watch and you make some good points there. My biggest complaint is that the disruptor did not get a full redesign, even bigger than the cyclone got. If there is one unit that is screaming to be replaced or changed it is the disruptor.

[@Zeppongola]

I woulda liked to have seen that too; feels like a unit that is simultaneously (at high level play) obligatory yet usually doesn't recoup its costs since micro is so well developed, but sometimes massively swings the game because the opponent happened to be looking away for a second to do macro or whatever. Largely irritating from both sides of the fence. And in lower levels of play where micro _isn't_ that reliable, I imagine it's just overly punishing and hard to deal with. In an ideal world, I'd like to see EMP's shield damage removed and have the disruptor _only_ damage shields instead, or maybe replace their novas with a guardian-shieldesque anti-EMP thing that is itself broken by EMP (or a barrier that, say, halves spell damage units inside it take), so that TvP ends up with the Terran having to either catch the disruptor out of position or burst them down before EMPing, or add a few extra ghosts to their armies to compensate for the number of extra EMPs they'd need to first bring down the barriers/compensate for the halved spell damage. The latter doesn't really fit with the name though, admittedly. Switch EMP to deactivate shields for a longish duration instead of doing damage to them, and make purification nova a debuff-cleansing bomb instead of a damaging one? More realistically, maybe switch it to another role like a dedicated zoner or a siege unit, and buff Colossi to compensate for the sudden lack of aoe (faster to build and some anti-air armour maybe), or their novas could apply an armour-nullifying debuff on units caught in them, so that the army has to commit to a follow up attack rather than the burst just dealing damage by itself, or something

[@StriKe_jk]

The Immortal change is crazy nuts aswell. Basically they can free tank everything from now from tank shots, EMPs, Widow Mines, NUKES, Yamato, etc..

[@ManDuderGuy]

I really dont understand how the current barrier even works or exactly how it's different now. I just know that Immortals are supposed to be tough and I've always liked them. Help me understand if you feel like it.

[@berengerchristy6256]

@@ManDuderGuy I want hardened shields back and for the colossus to see some love but what do I know. all I know is I miss watching immortal sentry all ins

[@andrzejnadgirl2029]

Well, barrier works that way as you say, massive damage reduction once activeted. However it will apply all the bonuses on the same shot that activates the barrier, it wasn't the case before. Best example is Yamato, full shield and how immortal would be one shotted by Yamato. However if you would shot once your immortal with another one to activate barrier and Yamato would hit with barriers already up Immortal survives despite having slightly less shields. EMPs were nasty as they didn't counted as damage despite lowering shields so Immortal could take really solid hit into his real HP from a tank and for next shots he already would be so low that barrier didn't mattered much. So there will be situations when Immortals will be able to stand their ground for significantly longer time than before. It doesn't matter much versus fast shooters but quite a lot versus units that have slow attack speed.

[@Eraz0rZ]

Well yeah... it kinda says so in the name doesnt it... lol

[@TrueThanny]

@@ManDuderGuy The big difference is in the first shot. Right now, the first shot hits, then causes the barrier to activate, which protects only against subsequent shots. With the patch, the first shot will activate the barrier and then apply its damage, meaning first shots can no longer kill low-health Immortals. A more complex scenario might be a Ghost using EMP, then a BC firing the Yamato. Right now, that results in a dead Immortal - the EMP removes all the shields and activates the barrier. The barrier drops in two seconds, which is the same amount of time it takes to fire the Yamato, which does 240 damage against 200hp. So the barrier wouldn't help unless the Yamato were already in flight. With the patch, however, that wouldn't happen. It's not exactly clear from the notes, but it seems the EMP would trigger the barrier then do 100 points of damage to it, cancelling it immediately. That leaves the Immortal with 100 shields and 200 health, meaning a Yamato would leave it with 60hp. Still badly damaged, but able to get off some shots, or be picked up by a Warp Prism.

[@nikku.anguru]

Harstem @ 30:35 you said "as individual members of the balance council....we signed an NDA". 2 Questions: How do I join this council? And was it Blizzard that made you sign an NDA? thank you for your time captain. great patch review

[@mixitra8320]

I swear Harstem. If this is a clickbait, I'm going to hunt you down and force you to eat a shoe.

[@ExValeFor]

perhaps he will accept it voluntarily? seeing how this wasn't clickbait

[@cobble3231]

He would enjoy that

[@LoverDino]

Harstem I think the complaints with widow mines were that most people were expecting nerfs, and not buffs. Not only are widow mines still extremely effective against top level protoss and also zerg, it's such a toxic unit that has probably caused so many ladder players to quit the game. It does too much for it's cost IMO

[@nfzeta128]

Yea, they nerfed banelings because they one shot probes WITH 2 upgrades and yet mines do it just base form and are a lot cheaper to field and easier to use and you don't have to suicide them.

[@widowmines231]

you can see the targeting line and dodge it you know

[@jesusbarrera6916]

@@widowmines231 on your mineral line when you are looking for them in the middle of the map?

[@AntondeStoc]

Hydras buffed, Overlord creep spread buffed. Meomaika is definitely on the Balance Council !

[@Name-ru1kt]

You forgot ultralisk got buffed since ghosts deal less damage. But yeah sounds like his time to shine

[@jonservo]

I don’t even really play StarCraft but I always like seeing some love for the hydralisks

[@BatkoNashBandera774]

At my level on the ladder, TvP is still a cheesefest where whomever cuts the stinkiest cheese the fastest wins. Macro games are rarer than an over 20 APM protoss. It will be fun to see if anything changes, or if when game begins and I type "gl I am lactose intolerant" -my winrate goes up.

[@firestarter000001]

Whats yuor ladde rank?I am at diamond 3 EU and its true its full of cheese. I never cheese tough, i just dont enjoy that type of plays. Usually the way it goes, if i havent played awhile, I loose 3-6 games to cheeses, then i remember how to defend them and it gets much better.

[@sjoerdglaser2794]

6.5 Minutes is and I don't think I've seen Harstem this worked up in ages. Looking forward to the reddit thread!

[@msrm55]

Good changes however, tempests with the "bonus damage vs buildings" upgrade still don't do bonus damage to flying buildings.

[@ganstera2011]

"They are stupid I am smart" he says and we expect people to listen to his full video

[@dylf14]

The baneling nerf is the obvious highlight and an obvious mistake here. Runbys wont be supply efficient anymore. The commity seems to be focused on the damage it does when it hits while ignoring the number of times a run by fails because of widow mines, sim city, storms. Against a decent opponent, for every 10 banes you make, only 1 or 2 hit the workers. So the investment is sizable.

[@JingIeFett]

Not to mention that on top of the damage reduction, the banelings are also losing the bonus HP from centrifugal hooks (I'll admit I wasn't aware of that bonus) which means they're even less likely to reach the target. If an attack doesn't land, you've lost 25/25 per failed baneling for nothing. And it's an especially huge nerf given that banelings are important for dealing with *marines*, a light unit. This means that not only will marines and similar units take less damage from banelings, it'll also be easier for them to take out the banelings before they have a chance to do any damage.

[@Wwillswords]

​@@JingIeFettso you will now have the same issue that the disruptor has at high levels.

[@PB4UGAME]

@@Wwillswords you are comparing a suicide unit, to one that can single-handedly one-shot more units, in a larger AoE, at no cost, just for waiting out a cooldown, and then gets to do it again ad infinum until it dies. You can also direct the blast of the latter, and it cannot be target down or destroyed before it detonates unlike how banes can be killed on their way in. This isn't even apples to oranges, you're not even comparing your apples to foodstuffs anymore.

[@JingIeFett]

​@@Wwillswords exactly, except it's a bit worse...if a disruptor misses a shot it still has the possibility of running away and trying again later. A failed baneling can't try again and costs you 25/25 per baneling...

[@Wwillswords]

@@JingIeFett but a disruptor is twice the supply and costs 150/150 it should be slightly better. It also is a higher tier as it technically is an end game unit that people tend to rush out. Vs the baneling is a early game unit.

[@noobzerg1990]

Didn’t they try the baneling health nerf a few years ago and immediately removed it because Terran won mid game almost every time? I swear I remember this is how I found out that bane speed gave health because they removed it in a patch awhile ago…

[@enumaelish8247]

I like how Harstem goes "I think the mothership will be less impactful now" and I'm over here like "is that even possible?". Also I feel like they should just scrap the cloaking field and make it a giant warp prism instead, I feel like that'll make it a bit more impactful.

[@matth1005]

It's probably more useful below master's since people forgot to bring detection

[@TrueThanny]

The Immortal barrier change doesn't just affect EMP. Right now, the first hit activates the barrier, but does normal damage to the Immortal. With this change, the first hit will _not_ cause damage. It will activate the barrier and put the damage it would have done into the barrier instead. So say you have an Immortal that's low on health but with a barrier available. Right now, that Immortal can be killed before the barrier activates, if the first hit does enough damage. With the patch, that Immortal will instead survive that first hit. An available barrier acts as an on-demand extra 100hp that lasts for two seconds, which must be depleted before actual damage to the unit is done - either by doing 100 points of damage, or waiting for those two seconds to elapse once the Immortal is first hit. In the low-HP-Immortal scenario, this basically translates into one or two extra shots they will be able to take in the fight, which could be huge if they target appropriately.

[@dtdarklycid]

I think alot of the outcryish comments come from the Help toss gets in this Patch mostly being nerfs to terran and zerg and less so direct buffs to protoss itself, so it appears as if protoss aint getting as much (also its less flashy).

[@2639theboss]

I think it's also because it can or does appear that the issues P has aren't actually being addressed. They've done the same thing with the ghost. "T is too dependent on ghosts", okay, fair point, how do we fix that? "Nerf the ghost". Yeah but T is still gonna be dependent on ghosts because there's no viable alternative. P has no midgame or late-game (or even early game). How do we fix that? Nerf the disrupter? There does seem to be a fundamental disconnect between addressing a unit which is too OP, and the necessary replacement of that unit by something else. The team is doing step 1, but not step 2.

[@johnkalyvas4838]

@@2639theboss They nerfed infestors, lurkers, broodlords and banelings in the late game so the terran army will be less reliant on ghosts.

[@ghosthunter0950]

​@@2639theboss fully agree, the nerfs to the ghost seem a bit extreme considering how reliant Terran is on them. Not just because it's OP but they also don't really have any alternatives.

[@Wwillswords]

​@@ghosthunter0950ravens could help with their anti armor missile.

[@andrzejnadgirl2029]

Lurker nerf isn't that huge though, aside from ghosts that isn't really much that deal with lurkers well on the ground. Tanks technically outrange them but difference is to small that it's easy to get them destroyed instead of doing other way around. Though we'll see, no one ever is happy about everything in the patch but for most part I liked what I read in this patch. Especially that I'm super curious about Cyclones, how those guys will be to play. Honestly look quite strong and I'm sucker for playing full mech and this playstyle seems to only getting better.

[@Sunjammer13]

Brood War Terran theme on the background :)

[@Alloran]

I feel like want the Captain needs is a crap ton of is it IODIS from ZvP and TvP players. We need to see Terran and Zerg bouncing these changes off the protoss to get a feel for how they work out. I personally thought that a colossus buff was in order, but I also hate mass splash being so prevalent in the game, since I think big dps splash is most of what's wrong with SC2 so seeing the Immortal get made more tanky is a better direction.

[@myselfthethird3393]

a thing i've always wondered how it would work that would be the following : Protoss : - adepts dont need core to be produced. ( protoss is the only race that their inital building only make 1 fighting unit ) - robotics facility gets a warp gate equivalent to be researched in robo bay (maybe something like a 200/200 research or something) - stargate gets gets a warp gate equivalent to be researched in Fleet beacon (maybe something like a 300/300 research or something) - voidays , gets their basic attacks removed and functions like oracles. player needs to chose one of 2 activatable spells, 1 is a weaker attack but doesn't drain energy as much and the other one deal large damage bu drains energy much faster. - MotherShip , time warp has shorter activation delay and significantly higher slow. ( 70% ?), ( the slow delay is so large that the opponent can dodge by slimply walking its units through it ) or - mother ship , remove it and bring back the arbiter but the cloak has to be researched and costs energy to keep up. zerg - all zerg units can move while burrowed. ( i dont care to lose to a zerg army burrowing under me and unborrowing all at once, the visual just looks awesome ) - viper cannot pull large units like thors, battlecruisers, carriers, tempests, motherships, broodlords. terran - medivacs drop rate increased for bio - tanks can be loaded while sieged but takes 1.5s. to load - raven , making its spells researched liked this patch. im just curious how it would look with those changes.

[@mEtil5656]

Most of this feel fine, but there are 3 parts i don't like too much. 1. Mothership rework seems cool, i would make the cloak longer tho 2. Cyclones seem kinda busted vs toss. Combined with a few mines i believe battlemech could snowball very fast. 3. The disruptor supply nerf could be a bit too much without buffing the overall power of the ground protoss army vs terran

[@arsteel2388]

Considering the EMP nerf and the change to Immortals I think it'll help vs Terran. We'll see on the test patch though!

[@HellecticMojo]

@@arsteel2388 why would you build immortals against Terran when they are going bio and immortals are terrible against bio?

[@FRIESorCHIPS]

The terrans benefit tremendously in terms of resources. Thanks to MULE, I spend less resources on SCV and only have 1 type of mechanic shield-up, so there is a lot of resource benefit The scanning range is also very wide. Blizzard have to block the Battle Cruiser for 5 seconds from using the Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump LIBERATOR & Ghost Sniper so OOOOOOPPPPPP. On the other hand, Protoss & Zerg need to invest more in ground and air defense upgrades respectively Even Zerg & Protoss' defense towers cannot recover resources, but Terran has another resource benefit with the bunker recovery function In terms of resources, Protoss & Zerg are at a huge disadvantage overall The zerg is still garbage INFESTOR skill Deleted but Ghost skill always non Deleted!!!!WTH! Zerg units are expensive to upgrade and take a long time to complete The tech building is also expensive, but you have to invest 50 more minerals called drones there and pay 50 minerals again to produce the lost drone Are the zerg a cheap tribe? Fukshieeeeet. Zerg most expensive and inefficient tribe Zerg adds minerals and gas when transforming units No race is more expensive than the Zerg One last thing on my mind. Terran Cyclone & Battle Cruiser can auto-attack Protoss Phoenix & Carrier can auto-attack Zerg have no such units Blizzard needs to patch these issues quickly nonono, please delete the zerg SC2 only requires Terran and Protoss Blizzard Always just trash balance thank you so much!

[@widowmines231]

@@HellecticMojoimmortals are great, and the new balance patch gives them another +100 hp. better than a thor

[@mEtil5656]

@@widowmines231 what no it doesn't. Also immortals suck against bio in the mid/late game, exactly were the toss ground army starts to really fall off once ghosts, vikings and tanks/libs are out

[@darkchaos454]

M2 random player. I've now played these changes. Obviously very complicated and I'm not good enough to say for sure, but these changes feel very rough for protoss in PvT (possibly worse than it already was).

[@kaceydillin7367]

What are the Zerg buffs? I think we can all agree Zerg is the race that needs the most buffs.

[@ArtificialQT]

Now, I may be remembering incorrectly, but I remember a time when the Warhound had to be removed because it ended up in a situation where meching Terrans just massed it and it was way too strong. By reworking the the Cyclone to come out much earlier and quicker than before, I worry that we're going to have another situation similar to Warhound on our hands. Where Meching Terrans have this one unit that they have no reason to not mass VS everyone just because its so strong on its own.

[@Miro_X]

I'm telling you right now, having played several games with the new cyclone; it feels terrible to use. It's so much slower that it's not useable without the speed upgrade in tandem with helions. The damage and range reduction is *extremely* noticable, the lower health and armour removal is awful. It's effectively killed cyclone usage against BC rush openers in TvT, so BC rushes are now extremely difficult to counter if you're playing Terran. This is exacerbated by the fact that Ravens now need an upgrade for Interference Matrix.

[@tambaz2276]

@@Miro_X oof yeah the cyclone change and the raven change is likely gonna make TvT even worse than before.

[@jackawaka]

the immortal instance damage should be very interesting at lower levels, being able to take a shot from a tank or a liberator each could help a fair bit in breaking turtle terran

[@laureloneiros1500]

It doesn’t, the barrier has limited HP as well and that is still reduced by the first hit

[@firestarter000001]

@@laureloneiros1500 The fact that the emp will not nulify the barrer tough, just trigger it, (if i undrstand it right) might be significant.

[@zaxtonhong3958]

The immortal change is only impactful in situations where the immortal gets poked (like it gets hit by a tank, then runs away). In a turtle-busting situation, it still takes 400 damage to destroy

[@HellecticMojo]

@@firestarter000001 it won't. Ask why would Protoss build immortals against EMP bio comp. Immortals were already doing good against tanks and planetaries, but you don't build them because disruptors are way more valuable.

[@firestarter000001]

@@HellecticMojo Actually immortals are great against terrans, because these days they heavily relay on maruaders. Without a few immortals, colosus/stalkers hvy army die to mass maruaders. Disruptors arent enough imho. It seems to many players concentrate on disruptors, and without immortals, terrans can dodoge disrtuptors and then jump on them, which often happens.

[@davidbodor1762]

I wish they'd give Tempests turret tracking instead of, or alongside of the acceleration buffs. It removes their awkward derpy spinning animation whenever they turn to shoot, instead they could just keep facing their targets for a few seconds like how Collossi and Phoenix and Immortals and even unsieged tanks do. Makes them more micro-able and it removes a really derpy animation what's not to like?

[@Iaotle]

Yeah I kind of agree with this. Wouldn't change much, would just make them more like the Phoenixes.

[@davidbodor1762]

@@Iaotle Just not too much like phoenixes. Imagine if they could attack and move at the same time lol, they'd be the stuff of nightmares.

[@ryanschultz9037]

That's a really clever solution! I love the immortal tracking. Also, you could then start drifting around corners with tempests.

[@jerubaal101]

Protoss isn't allowed to just have good units. Every unit has to have "interesting" drawbacks that can be expploited.

[@cat-astrophe8697]

How would this work in practice? The Colossis, Immortals, Tanks and Cyclones weapon is detached from its legs/wheels - thats why it makes sense that they would be able to use turret tracking. But would the Tempest just fly backwards? wouldnt that look ridicilous if such a big ship just decides to fly backwards? Phoenix are a lot smaller and faster, so its kinda excusable, but I think with Tempests it would look really odd.

[@Johnny-tw5pr]

For a while I thought that the meta of SC2 was pretty standard and not a lot changed. However it looks like the developers are not afraid to take some risks in order to freshen up the game

[@neruneri]

That's not quite true, SC2 doesn't really have devs anymore. They just have a basic maintenance team to keep it alive. These patches are typically decided on by the community.

[@greenlitlleman]

Developers? 🧐

[@shivamagarwal348]

@@greenlitlleman You must have meant the intern that has been locked in Blizzards server room that implements these changes

[@ldgarnett777]

EMP should do DoT to Protoss shields. Getting full damage instantly is crazy

[@myselfthethird3393]

i agree on this ! but the fact it can ruin a bunch of high templar is probably the bigger issue. what if it removed 40 shield at a time ? or something like that ? maybe % based ?

[@lordcola-3324]

I love that they changed so much. This is really going to fresh up the game! Though I really wished they changed more about Protoss.

[@DrewMiller1]

I think WinterStarcraft’s proposed Singularity Charge upgrade on the stalker is interesting. Agreed that it’s great that they keep the game fresh with new metas.

[@StriKe_jk]

WTF Stasis Wards become the supercharged version of creep tumors. Invisible, insane vision range, can be placed everywhere on the map in seconds and locks down units - absolutely broken. There is no way this change goes through if there is at least ONE non-biased person at Blizzards balance department.

[@orangepearlf40]

We need it. Zerg and terran has the most cost effective and OP map awareness ever. Alien 👽 race should not be less .

[@widowmines231]

@@orangepearlf40 observer is a thing that exist.

[@orangepearlf40]

@widowmines231 its slow, expensive speed upgrade and delays immortal, disruptor, collo production. Zerg: Overlord is supply and scout at the same time, its a 2 for 1 unit. Terran: sensor towers and mass orbitals is like the federal government.

[@widowmines231]

@@orangepearlf40 I would argue observer is cheaper than mass orbital, they are 550 a piece. overlord does not cloak.

[@orangepearlf40]

@widowmines231 When it comes to map awareness and tracking 👣 where your enemy is we need to look at greatest to least not just opinions. Opinions are good but facts are better. 1st place: Zerg. Overlords and creep. This is so powerful that if not regulated can get out of control. Before you know it, they have overlord speed and creep taking like 90% of the map. 2nd place: Terran. Orbitals and sensory towers. Sure orbitals are expensive but the game can get to the point that terran has so much money from mules that they literally have infinite ♾️ scans. Top that off with sensory towers and they literally are operating like the federal government. They see 👀 everything. 3rd place: Toss, obs and oracles. Stasis ward provides vision but it's 4. When toss wants to do a Stargate opener we sacrifice permanent map awareness because we can't make obs. We have to make oracles and do revelation for temporary map awareness but by allowing a site range of 7 on stasis ward its equivalent to an observer in surveillance mode minus approx 0.509090909%. Regardless, 1 unit can disable this vision by getting statis trapped so it's not like we will get the full 170 seconds of vision by setting statis wards. Stasis ward is made for trapping. The added benefit of vision doesn't break the game .

[@47StormShadow]

This seems like a good patch, although I think the mothership rework could be more interesting. This issue with the mothership is just that it's not very good so reducing the resources that go into it is one way to fix the problem but I think the more interesting approach would be to increase its power rather than reducing its cost. The adept is another unit that I think should get some love/attention as well as the banshee

[@HellecticMojo]

Protoss doesn't need yet another dead weight in their lopsided power budget. Warp in and disruptor strangle the ground power budget right now, the last thing needed is mothership doing it too.

[@HellecticMojo]

@@billwilliam6869 please edit this to be legible.

[@FRIESorCHIPS]

The terrans benefit tremendously in terms of resources. Thanks to MULE, I spend less resources on SCV and only have 1 type of mechanic shield-up, so there is a lot of resource benefit The scanning range is also very wide. Blizzard have to block the Battle Cruiser for 5 seconds from using the Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump LIBERATOR & Ghost Sniper so OOOOOOPPPPPP. On the other hand, Protoss & Zerg need to invest more in ground and air defense upgrades respectively Even Zerg & Protoss' defense towers cannot recover resources, but Terran has another resource benefit with the bunker recovery function In terms of resources, Protoss & Zerg are at a huge disadvantage overall The zerg is still garbage INFESTOR skill Deleted but Ghost skill always non Deleted!!!!WTH! Zerg units are expensive to upgrade and take a long time to complete The tech building is also expensive, but you have to invest 50 more minerals called drones there and pay 50 minerals again to produce the lost drone Are the zerg a cheap tribe? Fukshieeeeet. Zerg most expensive and inefficient tribe Zerg adds minerals and gas when transforming units No race is more expensive than the Zerg One last thing on my mind. Terran Cyclone & Battle Cruiser can auto-attack Protoss Phoenix & Carrier can auto-attack Zerg have no such units Blizzard needs to patch these issues quickly nonono, please delete the zerg SC2 only requires Terran and Protoss Blizzard Always just trash balance thank you so much!

[@MrSpleenface]

I think what I find frustrating is that we've had 2 patches in a row of Protoss substantially underperforming, and the changes we see in this third patch are small, incremental, trim around the edges type stuff. Meanwhile other races are getting units reworked pretty substantially. It doesn't matter if the new Cyclone is better or worse, it just seems off to me that the changes that are focused on adding new ways to play are going to the races that generally seem to be in a good spot and have relatively diverse options. In my view the race that is substantially out of line compared to the other two should be the one seeing radical changes. (Yes technically the mothership is redesigned, but it's a super ultra lategame unit that you can only have 1 of, so it doesn't really count IMO)

[@Appletank8]

It seems like the balance team is "buffing" Protoss by nerfing their counters? I-matrix, EMP, Baneling, etc.

[@joshuataylor6595]

Some days, the captain hides his biases to some extent. Today is not one of those days and I love it. I raise my fist with you and with all our probe brethren that will no longer be 1-shot by +2 banelings. ✊

[@tyranidswarmlord9722]

'There's a Protoss in the balance council' 'Tons of Protoss buffs, lots of Z gets kneecaps busted' Ya think?

[@lixnix2018]

I love the changes as a person who played Zerg and Terran I hoped for more I just want a major change in play styles and more big changes

[@tonaka86]

Zerg is dead if not hydrass all in. This is like SC1. Protoss is buff and changed.

[@byzantinerts6660]

As a Zerg I see nothing to be excited about 😅Possible I'm just too bad to appreciate the balance

[@windwalkerrangerdm]

Haven't played for a while but I still enjoy protoss qq tears. A couple weeks of adapting to balance will just make the tears afterwards even more tastier. Especially when they play the traditionally deathball army and accuse zerg players of having low IQ.

[@MrMali22]

No they nerfed the f out of Zerg so if you were bad already enjoy staying there lol

[@ledrash6079]

@@MrMali22My high 20% winrate in ZvT will drop a lot more if this is the reality patch :D Well, after 3 seasons, i have gotten used to it... :/

[@HellecticMojo]

Zerg did get hit hard, so the lack of excitement is understandable

[@jimmyha1898]

I am happy that the Chadmortals get a buff. It made no sense to both strip all shields AND the barrier with 1 emp.

[@allhailderpfestor4839]

I generally like these changes but I really hate mothership one. sure it will make mothership better but it completely killed whole flavor of unit to a point we might as well rename them into arbiter at this point. They should have went with buffing it instead of making it smaller and weaker. something like making mothership imnune/partially resisrsnce to CC, making ability cooldown based and some stat increase if necessary would made unit worth the price tag without ruining the flavor of the unit.

[@HellecticMojo]

No, Mothership only exists in the game because it's the only weak "super weapon" you don't want a unit that is a deathball in itself and hogs the power budget.

[@yellowpanther8228]

The biggest change in this patch: Harstem Triggered level is increased by 500%. In all honesty, love you man. Great vid.

[@Leeroy49]

Terran is too reliant on ghosts? Yeah because it is (was) the only chance in lategames after Ravens already being nerft to death. We'll see where the testing gets us :). Having a pro-player council finally is of course brilliant.

[@johanjof5613]

I am very worried by the snipe nerf. It was already nerfed by range and now dmg. I am very worried to see 10 ultralisks or lurkers knocking at my door, knowing that my ghost snipe which already requires quite some skills to avoid being cancelled and that you have to baby sit them letting your marines alone just to protect ghost from banelings... But now after a successful snipe the ultralisk which had been buffed in the 2 latest patch, will still be on the back of my army running for its life after the snipe

[@ledrash6079]

@@johanjof5613 Dont forget that with 10 ultras, zerg have saved 250 minerals!! (/sarcasm). However, this is my biased thoughts of the ghosts (i have won 8-20% only in ZvT for several seasons in a row, while the other races usually is 50-80%) Prediction: Ghosts will still be too powerful after this They usually dont snipe roaches anyway, but brood lords, lurkers and ultralisks. Brood lords: Still 2 snipes (no change) Lurkers: Still 2 snipes (remember they previously made so u could escape the snipe, but now lurker speed is nerfed, so they will just die even easier now...) Ultralisks: 4 snipes (instead of 3). My suggestion: Dont be able to snipe massive (?) (Ultra and BL). BL: Still countered by both vikings and thors (make it as a guardian, so thors can hunt them down without all the broodlings). Ultralisk: Marauder, Thor and Liberators still handle this one fine. =)

[@Cheng798536]

Mothership time warp Everything inside that bubble is 50% weaker And slower. And no longer require energy make Mamaship like a true tactical commandship perform surgical strike like a boss. Would love to see that in base trade and combo with nexus recall.

[@JA-in3hw]

I learned a disturbing amount of things about numbers currently in the game that I didn't remember/know. I forgot banes got bonus hp for speed and haven't read the speed upgrade in ages. I didn't know disruptors showed visually that the nova is down. I didn't think about widow mine unburrow being slower than burrow with drilling claws. Probably some other ones in there too.

[@Appletank8]

FYI, the glowing bit in the middle of Disrupters stop glowing during the reload.

[@FRIESorCHIPS]

The terrans benefit tremendously in terms of resources. Thanks to MULE, I spend less resources on SCV and only have 1 type of mechanic shield-up, so there is a lot of resource benefit The scanning range is also very wide. Blizzard have to block the Battle Cruiser for 5 seconds from using the Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump LIBERATOR & Ghost Sniper so OOOOOOPPPPPP. On the other hand, Protoss & Zerg need to invest more in ground and air defense upgrades respectively Even Zerg & Protoss' defense towers cannot recover resources, but Terran has another resource benefit with the bunker recovery function In terms of resources, Protoss & Zerg are at a huge disadvantage overall The zerg is still garbage INFESTOR skill Deleted but Ghost skill always non Deleted!!!!WTH! Zerg units are expensive to upgrade and take a long time to complete The tech building is also expensive, but you have to invest 50 more minerals called drones there and pay 50 minerals again to produce the lost drone Are the zerg a cheap tribe? Fukshieeeeet. Zerg most expensive and inefficient tribe Zerg adds minerals and gas when transforming units No race is more expensive than the Zerg One last thing on my mind. Terran Cyclone & Battle Cruiser can auto-attack Protoss Phoenix & Carrier can auto-attack Zerg have no such units Blizzard needs to patch these issues quickly nonono, please delete the zerg SC2 only requires Terran and Protoss Blizzard Always just trash balance thank you so much!

[@Appletank8]

@@FRIESorCHIPS Did you not notice Ghosts and Ravens getting nerfed? I'm not sure how you can call Zerg weak when they've been regularly kicking ass in top tier tournaments.

[@aloe7794]

@@Appletank8he just spams this commment everywhere else, just ignore him

[@K3rriganZerg]

I saw the ultralisk changes and I was like, if this was what they were going to do, they may as well not change it at all...

[@Washburne21]

The real ultralisk change is that ghosts can't just pop them.

[@patrickmuller3248]

Harstem, without even seeing the entire video, I TOTALLY understand that you are pissed about stupid comments! I don't even know what's cooking in the patch proposal, but I am hyped already. Simply because something is happening. Thanks to you and your efforts already. No matter what the outcome is (hope I am not going to regret those words ;) )

[@crystallakedood]

I think the only thing I'd like to see differently here (and this is speculative, rather than anything else), is the Mothership keep its energy, but only use it for cloaking. Make it a toggle ability and let it drain energy while active. Otherwise, I think this is a really crazy and interesting patch that I cannot wait to try out on all 3 races.

[@rnf123]

Balance team member inner monologue: "I've got it... the answer to all our balance problems!.... The answer was right in front of me... what this game needs is WIDOW MINE BUFFS!!!"

[@Eraz0rZ]

The problem with widow mines isnt proffesional play. But lower league play. They already see play in diamond+ games with the upgrade and this makes sure that after they did game ending damage they are now easier to get back in the medivac if stalkers are out of position. (Wich happens more frequently in lower league games due to amove and general lack of map awareness then higher league games. So yes for you it might seem meaningless. For a diamond you just destroyed the game for saying that

[@jeepld]

According to Harstem « Protoss get by far the best changes » With defenders like Harstem in the balance council, Protosses don’t need enemies 😢

[@Bronko_]

He just isn't a biased smug whiner.

[@shivamagarwal348]

@@Bronko_Yup. He is not a Terran Prick

[@Bronko_]

@@shivamagarwal348 Why bring up Terran? Seems you have some hate bias?

[@shivamagarwal348]

@@Bronko_ I meant it as a joke. Harstem often says terrans pricks in his videos, I was just trying to reference that

[@Bronko_]

@@shivamagarwal348 Oh I'm sorry then. English isn't my first language so i might have failed to catch the sarcasm. Have a good day man

[@synka5922]

"how dare you nerf the attack range of this unit by 0.2!!?!? its unplayable! I will never win a single game anymore!" - everyone facing any kind of balance change for their race I wouldnt be surprised for people crying if a unit was to be resized (without changing anything about it) by like 10% to make it more distinct in a army, despite it not changing anything really

[@trevormalone1343]

The game needs a big patch, even if it makes things a little unstable and a little less balanced i feel the game needs big changes to make a bunch of new builds and different strategies

[@arnoldmayer1158]

Would you also periodically change chess for the sake of change?

[@greenlitlleman]

@@arnoldmayer1158 Chess is boring exactly because there's no change in the rules.

[@aloe7794]

@@arnoldmayer1158 starcraft 2 =/= chess though

[@trevormalone1343]

@@arnoldmayer1158 That's why chess is a boring game, but you also don't have to play with the new patches, you can play the original all day if you want to

[@PotatoMussab]

Wow what a crazy good haircut Harsty. I'm really glad you kept your appointment this time and did not cancel last minute

[@LordMephilis]

My concern about the baneling nerfs are trying to fight bioballs with them going forward.

[@andrzejnadgirl2029]

I'm a Terran but yeah, considering that not only banes lost some damage but also HP it's actually pretty solid concern. Frankly some gas discount would be fine but there is that issue that full -5 gas is probably too much and it would be good at -3 or something like that and it won't happen.

[@randyyyyyyy6977]

I’m a zerg main. My hope is the ghost nerfs will help even this out but I’m really unsure. I think this could make parade pushes a lot harder to stop, but other than my questions about this I really this patch

[@Iseenoobpeoples]

Plenty of time to get Infestors now, use lings in the front of the banes + Fungal.

[@mixuz91]

You mean... A move..? Its been 12 years.. maybe time to do something else :)

[@SPQR_14]

I already rage when I see stimmed marines simply blast my banelings to shreds before they can reach them. This is just going to make the problem worse. Marines are the counter to banelings.

[@admiralcasperr]

Why isn't this titled "Harstem rants about zerg players for 34 minutes straight"

[@signumsigma4485]

Here is how I would fix SC2: 1. make baneling damage global 2. make baneling damage friendly fire

[@cosmonauthal7651]

I think people issues with the widow mine buff is why? Idc if it was a “the widow mine is 5 minerals less” I would still be like why? I just can’t wrap my head around the council taking a look at everything in this game and choosing to take a slot and buff widow mines. It’s less about it having a actually massive effect as I really don’t think it’s that big a deal and more just I want an explanation.

[@knivesoutcatchdamouse2137]

I think it'd be really nice if we could find a way to make Adepts and Reapers not completely useless past the 3 minute mark, and maybe find a way to make Void Rays at all useable.

[@duskgod]

Bring back reaper grenade attack vs. Buildings 😂

[@shivamagarwal348]

I think Reaper buff is heavily dependent on Byun's wrist I would say, though I wouldn't mind seeing him showing how the Micro Jackson used to do things in his day

[@tambaz2276]

Firstly, adepts arent useless past the 3 minute mark because Adept all ins at 5+ have been a huge thing and they can be very strong still and currently reaper hellion attacks on the 2nd base are still standard in TvT. Secondly, that is the function of those units. To scout and defend in the early game, so they aren't meant to be a core part of your army however perhaps if they had an upgrade that simply made them even better scouts later in the game that could be cool but it sounds either broken or unnecessary.

[@Eckster]

13:50 "Transfuse each other, whatever Zergs do when they party, chill in the spawning pool" 😂

[@jeremyduke4938]

Finally protoss getting a little love. Protoss boys rejoice!

[@ManDuderGuy]

Yaaaay🎉

[@MisterNightfish]

So basically what harstem wants is to replace the broodlord with the guardian from Starcraft 1?

[@MrMali22]

About the fungal thing. They nerfed the damage so they couldn't kill marines from two consecutive fungals. Really? The tier 1 unit shouldn't go down from ticks from not one but two fungals? After watching this, i can see why harstem was happy... nerfed zerg the most. Not being able to kill a probe with +2 from a cost inefficient unit like an upgraded baneling? Holy crap

[@PB4UGAME]

Yeah, Zerg just took a sledge hammer to the face and got. . . a few seconds earlier of a Hydra push for it, and a whole -8 seconds on their bane timing in exchange for 4 damage, no extra health, etc? So glad Ultras cost 25 less mineral when you already have more than you can spend and are only limited by gas income. -___-

[@JingIeFett]

The fungal change is worse than people realize because they're also nerfing baneling damage against light, which means they'll do less damage against units like marines. So it's a double nerf to Zerg's anti-bio weapons. Back in the HOTS days, Fungal was specifically changed into an attack spell BECAUSE zerg had so few tools for dealing with mass marines and banelings weren't enough.

[@HellecticMojo]

better rev up those lurkers.

[@AxelTT555]

yeah. like infestor wasn't already crippled after removing infested terrans. now even in pro matches people raarely build more than a few of this units. while terran can happily sit on 20 ghosts. and toss can have 10-12 HT. this is so slupid.

[@b0wmanPL]

New RTS games have been announced. This one trainee responsible for SC 2 balance: Adios my friends.

[@MRApht]

I am just really impressed with the amount of information for each change. Way better than the Bliz years where the communication was terrible.

[@JohnCephas]

Who is doing it now if not Bliz?

[@renegaderu5126]

Cyclone with reactor... Here we go mech Terrans!

[@errgoseven4680]

These are all pretty exciting changes, I think it's well done. One nerf I always wished for is, a cost increase on Zerg roaches because I find their initial waves too strong.

[@Name-ru1kt]

I think this is simply because your pretty bad and don’t know the proper response in all respect. Zerg all ins harstem has admitted himself kinda suck and really pros as a whole do. If you want advice here is some. Banshee in tvz hard counter if its a very fast roach warren like 1:30 is where the reaper comes in can scout and delay the roaches with bombs and put a bunker out front If its zvz cut off the reinforcements with lings then counterattack or just go for a full surround since lings are much quicker If your playing toss and hate it so much since you can’t split against the biles just play stargate and make a voidray to clear out overlords. Can’t die to roaches with it either

[@FRIESorCHIPS]

The terrans benefit tremendously in terms of resources. Thanks to MULE, I spend less resources on SCV and only have 1 type of mechanic shield-up, so there is a lot of resource benefit The scanning range is also very wide. Blizzard have to block the Battle Cruiser for 5 seconds from using the Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump LIBERATOR & Ghost Sniper so OOOOOOPPPPPP. On the other hand, Protoss & Zerg need to invest more in ground and air defense upgrades respectively Even Zerg & Protoss' defense towers cannot recover resources, but Terran has another resource benefit with the bunker recovery function In terms of resources, Protoss & Zerg are at a huge disadvantage overall The zerg is still garbage INFESTOR skill Deleted but Ghost skill always non Deleted!!!!WTH! Zerg units are expensive to upgrade and take a long time to complete The tech building is also expensive, but you have to invest 50 more minerals called drones there and pay 50 minerals again to produce the lost drone Are the zerg a cheap tribe? Fukshieeeeet. Zerg most expensive and inefficient tribe Zerg adds minerals and gas when transforming units No race is more expensive than the Zerg One last thing on my mind. Terran Cyclone & Battle Cruiser can auto-attack Protoss Phoenix & Carrier can auto-attack Zerg have no such units Blizzard needs to patch these issues quickly nonono, please delete the zerg SC2 only requires Terran and Protoss Blizzard Always just trash balance thank you so much!

[@user-wb8iu1hl6i]

Cyclones being reworked into speedy Goliaths could make pure mech always viable, could be cool

[@viceroy___]

Meanwhile P has to use every unit and every ability to keep up. But T just wants to be able to play with one unit and win.

[@user-wb8iu1hl6i]

@@viceroy___ You can't win on pure marine and theyre the best unit in the game

[@Mykulveli]

I think this is a step in the right direction. However I think what was needed personally, is more late game tools for protoss against zerg specifically. Just for an example, I don't know how this changes in a match like Serral vs Classic that just happened. Serral still has most if not all the active tools (i.e Vipers, infestor) and it feels like you're just hoping he makes a mistake as the protoss. Perhaps it's easier to win before this point now, but I feel like it's still a pain point that the active tools don't seem to be there for protoss (specifically against zerg, because lurkers or broods push you away from ground viability then Viper/infestor have all the initiative). I think some tools for protoss to be active with skill expression to set up a fight would be a better solution imo. Again patch is good for Protoss to be sure, but does it accomplish the goals?

[@xitaris5981]

That's kind of antithetical to the core idea behind those two races though. Protoss, in general, are supposed to be strong race, but slower/less ability to choose the fight unless they force their opponent into defending. Zerg are weak, but fast and have much more control of when and where to fight because otherwise they'd get obliterated every time. Terran are the middle ground where they have a combination of weak/fast units and strong/slow units If you give the Protoss too strong of an initiation then you'd need to nerf their units or else they'd be OP AF and then you'd start to lose the identity of the Protoss race that's been established since SC1

[@xitaris5981]

KZbin is dumb and won't let me edit my comment. As far as being forced to wait for the opponent to make a mistake, there's also the inverse of that: the Zerg has to play nearly perfectly just to be on equal footing because the race is designed to be fragile and replaceable, so one mistake can lead to their entire army getting wiped out and, in the late game, it's difficult to replace it quick enough to not take critical damage in the counter attack

[@Mykulveli]

@@xitaris5981 Sure, maybe my thoughts/wording wording wasn't clear. I don't think late game protoss has any threat against theoretical mistake free play. If the lore/design is to have the stronger single units, the current balance is failing. This patch maybe tries to address that with stuff like fixing movement speed on tempest and momma ship, but where is the actual threat? Can Protoss ever assemble a tipping point of too many "strong" units? No, imo. Can they tech high enough to have a race advantage? No, imo. Just feels like watching the very best players in the world sometimes beating players like Serral in early and mid game like in the recent Classic match, and he gets to basically watch himself get picked apart with no counter play. Edit: I'll also say they had a more "lore accurate" version of late game during the skytoss a move Era and people rightfully didn't like it because it wasn't fun to play against. Wouldn't say that was good for the game, but neither is taking all the late game win conditions away then never recouping something more skill expressive.

[@motoboy6666]

No

[@Barcodeuser123]

Yea that is serral how about masters and diamond where protoss just a moves and wins the game? People dont have the micro of zerg and protoss generally has a broken end game compared to zerg. People cant micro infestors vipers ground units and the corruptors using 4 different hotkeys like serral does. Protoss can just a move and storm and win.

[@MichelMichelMann]

Cool, super excited for the changes! All seems really fair and thought out (except the Stasis Ward vision). And had to laugh about the Ultralisk burrow speed change, but I mean, it doesn't hurt. IMO the mothership should keep its continuous cloak, maybe just decrease the radius a bit or give it some other constant area of effect bonus.

[@jennymckenzie5304]

My first thought about the ghost change, other than "oh good, hating on ghosts again", is nerfing terran's only viable ultra lategame unit without compensating for that, I promise you terrans would be all for making the ghost more niche so long as it doesn't just wreck our lategame entirely. Ghosts rn just feel like the only unit you CAN make

[@boartank]

In what universe is EMP damaging energy AND shields in a large AOE at that long range fair. 1 hit deletes all energy and almost all shields.

[@faikerdogan2802]

​@@boartankbecause shields are imbalanced xd

[@todung7033]

@@boartank exactly. some terran players have been spoiled for too long they forgot what actual balance feels like

[@zant1566]

>Terrans only viable ultra lategame unit Ok lets stop there. You have Thors and Liberators, and like almost all of your other units: Hellbats, Marines, Marauders, etc. are still good in lategame. Either way, the most important thing is the first like 50 seconds of this video. Just accept the test because the whole point of this is to experiment and see what works, not add it into main immediately

[@Lmaokekw975]

While i can see the argument against zerg, i cant even comprehend how poeple think it is a good idea to give one of the most powerfull spell casters an ability which not only diables all other spellcasters but also drain 50 % of one of the races health instantly .... Tbh: Everything toss has except disruptors (which are a bad designed unit) can get countered by terran. They have the perfect counter to every unit Zerg and Toss has. With the 2. (maybe best) economy due to mules, blockable bases, most defendables command structure and the best lategame scout ever (scan)... poor terran.

[@TheNeomare]

I feel like the 3 most impactful changes will be: 1) Baneling nerfs. It is a heavily used unit and it not being able to 1 shot workers anymore at +2 is pretty big deal as well as being able to shoot it down more easily. 2) Ghost nerfs. It is a staple late game Terran unit, it is very hard for me to imagine this will not have a huge impact. 3) Disruptor nerfs. Same as 2) pretty much. Seams like one of the goal of the proposed changes is also to make a wider array of units to be usable by pushing out some of the staples and giving some more love to some of the less used units. I expect this to make balancing the game in the future even harder but in general it is a very good thing for the game long term if it can be balanced properly. It will also make the game fresh again which is great :D. I feel like the Protoss is getting a big W with this proposed changes as games VS zergs being less volatile and late game VS terran to be much less oppressive and also templar becoming more late game viable. I am a little bit worried about potential strength of hydra or cyclone timing attacks. I am sure this will get tested and tunned. However in that case I am worried the whole update will just be a big L for both zerg and terran because of that gets nerfed.. all the other changes for zerg and terran are mostly nerfs or very insignificant nerfs. In general I enjoy watching terran players the most and I feel like there has always been a lack of championship level terrans out there compared to other races. I do not consider this a terran friendly update proposal. However I also have no idea how to solve the ghost problem. I can already see the EMP getting buffed again next update if this one goes trough. However maybe it is okey to nerf them while making terran late game stronger in other ways. The Medivac buff is interesting but maybe it is not enough. I would not downplay it for sure. Championship level terrans which are active on the map and steam a lot can often drain their medivacs quite hard this will be a big buff for them. I think zerg got hit the most though. For quite some time I felt Zergs are a bit to powerful but that is just my gut feeling by watching championship level competitive play. SO I kind of agree with it.. but I wonder if it is a bit to much. Still it is hilarious to see the reddit comments and people just writing nonsense, focusing on wrong things, overlooking the big changes and deciding for themselves that the update proposal is fail before even trying it. Thnx for sharing! Cheers!

[@Feloblod11]

The Widow Mine target line should go back to the thin line when an armory is built (or maybe an upgrade) to give it back its stealth surprize attack.

[@kevlee2366]

As a more casual player, I'd have to disagree. Higher level players will already be able to register when a mine is dropped, and once they fire, you'll know. It's like a siege tank. Once they fire, it's very clear it's a tank. Same thing with widow mines. The mine's wouldn't really change for higher level players, but it'd raise the floor for lower skill players, which is pointless outside of smurfing.

[@Feloblod11]

@@kevlee2366 I too am casual, and Z btw. My defence of this is purely from a love of the game and not my race. I worry that making things easy for lower level player will dilute and take the fun out of the pro level. I suggest my change to allow lower level players to level the playing field early on (lover level games dont last long enough to late game usually) but allow Pro players to still incorporate putting mines in random places and giving that stealth feel to the mines. Your thinking too much for drops (which happen early on and my suggestion accommodates that), but the current change suggests that putting mines in key places to snipe random units is made mostly redundant at pro level.

[@MadMan-7978]

Honestly just incredible how the community is keeping this game alive by itself. This is gonna be a controversial patch for sure but a patch is a patch and that breath of fresh air is gonna be amazing

[@Supergoon1989]

6:10 You're wrong about drilling claws here. - Drilling claws VS Toss can actually be very very good. Reaction speed at pulling probes away from mineral lines in time VS drilling claws compared to regular un-upgraded widow mines is extremely significant. I know it's only like 1 second faster, but it the heat of battle, you might have your screen somewhere else. That extra moments hesitation can make so much difference. I saw Uthermal use the build, he got EPIC hits against probes with drilling claws. Toss just could not react in time.

[@xitaris5981]

He's talking about pros. While uThermal is very high level, his opponents frequently aren't (compared to him or compared to pros). Even low GM player's reactions are not a good point of reference because there's 1-2 thousand MMR difference between them and the pros.

[@Supergoon1989]

@@xitaris5981 Dude the widow mine drops hit like a freakin' truck!! Even against high-5-point or even 6k opponents. - slow burrow mines, they pull away, then micro just 1 probe back to bait the shot, then clear up. they lose {50/0} for the probe, you lose (75/25) for the mine. not a good trade. but WITH the fast burrow it's just like HOT DAMN! - BOOM! DEAD! no time to react, entire. freakin'. probelines. KILLED! - Get that to work 1 time, their economy is in shambles, you can pretty much do whatever you want after that.

[@PotatoMussab]

First of all, the buff is for the widow mine UNBURROW speed with drilling, not burrow speed. So this doesn't help with the drop itself hitting faster than you can react. Second, To get drilling claws you need an armory. To get an armory you either need to play 2 gas and significantly delay your expansion or you just wait an extremely long time for no reason. Protoss players are aware of 2 gas armory mine drops. But even then, drilling claws would be super weird for that because it means you make a techlab on your factory, not a reactor. Then you would have to sit there and wait for the armory, then wait for drilling claws then do your drop and for what? Faster UNBURROW? It has ZERO effect on TvP

[@voodoochild24262]

Lol yea it buffs unburrowing not borrowing

[@Supergoon1989]

'Drilling claws now also makes the widow mine unburrow twice as fast' - It already makes them burrow fast. post-patch, it makes them unburrows fast as well, which i'm not too concerned about. The fast burrow was always the part that hits hard. @@voodoochild24262

[@StriKe_jk]

Cyclone upgrade increases move speed to 5.1 sounds a bit nuts

[@ryuranzou]

That minimap change to medivacs is my favorite out of all of these. I love changes like this that don't affect the pros, but help out the newer players like me.

[@ryuranzou]

Overall I like the sound of those changes all around. I don't know how they will affect the game, but from what I can imagine it will help more units get more use. Just coming from the games I've watched nerfing ghosts emp and snipe abilities will be huge in changing the matchup of protoss and zerg both against terran.

[@chanathipkovorakul1639]

They should add option to show warning symbol when spotted enemy transport units too.

[@DULobanov]

Looks like it missing few additional "cosmetic" changes: Change purification nova damage 145/55 to 49/55 to do not one shot drones Damage of Psionic storm ability of High templar is not summarized (from several storms), and change effect time from 2.85 to 5 seconds to have time to save drones Slightly change ghost ability to cast abilities from cloak, so if Ghost casts any ability he became visible during this time Battlecruiser Yamato canon deals 180 damage to do not one shot corruptors

[@Templarfreak]

the thing that i primarily like about the change to the cloaking field is that now Ghosts cant EMP it away and there being absolutely nothing you can do about it. now, you can wait until you think Ghosts are out of energy or are all dead and then cloak. it's not the biggest or most impactful change in the world and i doubt you're going to be seeing this happen every time you see a Mothership (already a rare event), but i like that Protoss has that option now.

[@thoughtsaboutnothing8776]

I think the maneuverability changes in general (Cyclone, Mothership, Tempset, Brudeloard) are most intersting to see play I out all of them might have huge impact. And finally the -400/-400 Meme is over, hopefully not -250/-250 from now on, but you little clip makes it seem really nice

[@FRIESorCHIPS]

The terrans benefit tremendously in terms of resources. Thanks to MULE, I spend less resources on SCV and only have 1 type of mechanic shield-up, so there is a lot of resource benefit The scanning range is also very wide. Blizzard have to block the Battle Cruiser for 5 seconds from using the Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump LIBERATOR & Ghost Sniper so OOOOOOPPPPPP. On the other hand, Protoss & Zerg need to invest more in ground and air defense upgrades respectively Even Zerg & Protoss' defense towers cannot recover resources, but Terran has another resource benefit with the bunker recovery function In terms of resources, Protoss & Zerg are at a huge disadvantage overall The zerg is still garbage INFESTOR skill Deleted but Ghost skill always non Deleted!!!!WTH! Zerg units are expensive to upgrade and take a long time to complete The tech building is also expensive, but you have to invest 50 more minerals called drones there and pay 50 minerals again to produce the lost drone Are the zerg a cheap tribe? Fukshieeeeet. Zerg most expensive and inefficient tribe Zerg adds minerals and gas when transforming units No race is more expensive than the Zerg One last thing on my mind. Terran Cyclone & Battle Cruiser can auto-attack Protoss Phoenix & Carrier can auto-attack Zerg have no such units Blizzard needs to patch these issues quickly nonono, please delete the zerg SC2 only requires Terran and Protoss Blizzard Always just trash balance thank you so much!

[@elarisgg]

If I remember right, we went from wanting to reducing hydra bane attacks and splitting hydra upgrades in two, to undoing that all to go back to an old meta. Why?

[@mothrahlurker788]

So first off, have you actually compared the numbers? Secondly, we're talking about a long enough time period that creep got changed, queens have a much harder time assisting in pushes, super battery exists and the entire ZvP meta is a different unit composition with faster expansions.

[@xnephysisthere]

Exactly, you need to return to the baseline

[@NotaThing13]

I'm bad and I know I'm gonna be dying to hydra all-ins. Exciting patch though can't wait to see what goes live! :)

[@TheNeomare]

@Harstem thank you for being such a hard worker in keeping this wonderful game alive. I feel like you worked on this update a lot and I am sorry people do not see the intended goals and react to it so negatively without even trying it out. Some things will definitely need to be ironed out but that is what the testing is for. Good luck!

[@snaddd2693]

my only slight complaint is that, while i might just be bad, widow mines feel impossible to get through they just snipe off such a chunk if units and ive always been confused by why the radius cant be slightly smaller or have a damage falloff in outer oarts of the radius so it doesnt just kill 40 lings a pop also instead of a radius nerf why doesnt the ghost just do a percentage of shield damage to protoss units or a set damage number instead of disabling half the health

[@Guerrilla705]

I've worked as a game dev on some popular games for many years now. I say that just so you know that I have extra experience from the other side, and I can _assure_ you that the correct play with reddit or twitter threads about patch notes is to read them with popcorn and a some sort of alcoholic beverage. People really do cry about how the sky is falling no matter what you do lmao!

[@skipperg4436]

EMP range buff was to help dealing with Chargelots. Where is the corresponding nerf to Chargelots?

[@HellecticMojo]

That happened ages ago when they lost their impact damage on charge.

[@mustard9933]

I am purely a spectator, but I am slightly concerned that the zerg changes could make their mirror matchup more monotone. Currently the roach is the linchpin unit where there are a few techpaths into and out of it. The changes to baneling will probably incentivize players not to invest in melee upgrade builds. Additionally the lurker changes will make lurkers weaker to ravagers. I predict the result will be SoO style never ending midgames of roach-ravager. Spire will be the only answer where whichever player is ahead will use to checkmate the losing player with map control. Idk tho…

[@falcon758]

My biggest problem with the lack of noticeable protoss buffs, is that we hear the same story again. "If this is not good enough, we can always buff protoss again in the future" It takes basically a year to get a balance patch out, so this is quite frustrating. But hopefully this patch does do something. To be honest, I need it to work at the pro level. I am not good enough for these changes to make a difference for me, but my motivation to play is zero if protoss can't win tournaments. Or if protoss can never even make it to top 4

[@nd7915]

I like this because it will herald a new era of IODIS.

[@abrahameyre4029]

Master level protoss here, a concern I have about the cyclone and even the way this "balance council" is structured, is that I know lower levels struggle greatly in playing against the cyclone and ALREADY report playing against it as immensely frustrating. Making changes for the top 0.1% of players is a quick way to ruin a game and even though I am top 3%, would not structure changes around what I find improper without taking into account what lower levels are going to be dealing with. I also would like to know who has named themselves the "balance council" and who elected them?