10 Classic Flat Twin Motorcycles that aren't BMWs

BMW is today synonymous with the flat twin engine but they are by no means the only manufacture to have used the engine layout and nor were they the first.
So This time we take a look at 10 Flat twin motorcycles that are not BMWs or licence-built copies of BMWs.

[@Volker_GR]

Boxer is a very interesting topic, and I didn't know all of the shown bikes. So thank you very much for the video! I would like to add: The East German MZ BK 350 (1952-1959) with its 2-stroke boxer, the Swiss Condor A580 (1948-1958) and the (okay, not quite so classic) French BFG 1300 (1982-1988) with the four-cylinder boxer from the Citroen GSA. Greetings from Germany!

[@bikerdood1100]

I have covered both previously but the video was starting to get a bit too long The MZ is the only shaft drive 2 stroke boxer ever to reach production I covered in one of my eastern bloc videos some time ago

[@andremaertens5964]

What about the French gnome Rhone?

[@anandmoon5701]

Wow, these boxer engines look fantastic! They have a rich history intertwined with these classic motorcycles

[@bikerdood1100]

Indeed they do And there were quite a few more besides

[@rickh8380]

Great collection of old iron. I really enjoyed seeing the different designs of the engine layouts. Thanks for sharing. Ride safe everyone. Cheers from the States.

[@bikerdood1100]

Glad you enjoyed it Even got HD & Indian. Bet not too many would have thought that

[@GrrMeister]

5:08 *I had one Exactly like that, bought from Pride & Clarke in London in circa 1962/3 - Noticed on the way home in the dark to Leicester trail of sparks coming out from behind. Phoned P&C next day with my concern and they said "no need to worry build up of Carbon in the Exhaust" - Rode it for quite a bit with no problems, and decided to do a **_Continental Trip_** However Broke down near Luton and a very kind Gentleman stopped to help and took me to his home nearby. Found that the Timing Gears had all Chewed up. So the Next day he took me in his Sidecar to London to get the parts. By the time we returned and rebuilt the gears it was too late, so he put me up again (FOC) for a Second night. Early next day set off for Dover (Around 110 Miles) but lost faith and decided to take the Ferry and Park up the Dragonfly in a Garage and do the rest of the trip on the Train to Konstanz where my Friends were staying - however - another long story won't bore you but in short turned out they had decided to stay in Kreuzlingen (Switzerland) as much cheaper back the [10 Swiss Francs to £1)*

[@bikerdood1100]

Douglas was a company that post war was just too small There ability to fully develop their machines was limited A shame because it was a very neat design

[@SevenBee-q2j]

Some superb motorcycles... I'll take the Zundapp all day 🤟 Ty for your hard work 🙂

[@bikerdood1100]

Thanks

[@GarnetNewfree]

Some amazing bikes there matie, I can imagine seeing them in the tin is even more of a pleasure, I personally will be giving this episode a few watches, well night shift work is like that, anyway cheers keep up the good work 👍

[@bikerdood1100]

True Only ridden a couple my self alas

[@Mike40M]

Interesting. Only flat twin I've ever ridden was a pre war Douglas. 60 years ago saw an ABC cylinder in a scrapyard. Only motorcycle cylinder with turned cooling fin I've ever seen. No wonder it was costly to make.

[@bikerdood1100]

Only ridden a very old Douglas myself Indeed the ABC is very finely engineered but oddly lacked a kick start if I remember rightly

[@OldGuyonaBike]

So many inteeresting boxers. Ran an R75/5 in the 70s & 80s so always have a soft spot for the engine layout. Some wonderful machines even if most of they were not commercially successful.

[@bikerdood1100]

Oh believe me there’s a ton more I left out

[@OldGuyonaBike]

@@bikerdood1100 I am sure there are more. Just had a discussion with an engineer that insisted that the boxer was actually a V twin that couldn't hold it's cylinders up.

[@umvhu]

In Africa, working out in the wilds we had a bulldozer which used a 750cc sidevalve flat twin as a donkey unit for electrical power and as a starter for the main engine. We also had portable electric generator for site power with, I think, the same engine. They looked very similar, were of American origin, but the maker I can't remember. The Harley unit brought it to mind.

[@bikerdood1100]

It could indeed have been the HD

[@davecooper3238]

I remember a Dragonfly at the.Cotton House apprentice hostel in the early 60s. Did it have some fancy bore coating that ment it could not be rebored ?

[@bikerdood1100]

Good question They did have considered experience with two strokes where coated bores are very common So maybe 🤔

[@davecooper3238]

@Pretty sure neither of my two 1950s ride to work two strokes had fancy bore coatings. After that I moved to and have stayed with four strokes.

[@danweyant4909]

Cracking effort, my good man. Flat out your best yet, spot on. Very, very well done. Better than any motorcycle tv production I've seen. Should ( after paying you handsomely) be required material for rider training. Only note is a Douglas twin is featured in the book One Man Caravan, the best motorcycle book ever published.

[@bikerdood1100]

Well longest perhaps Which unfortunately also puts people off a bit too so I’m not expecting great figures We shall see

[@danweyant4909]

​@@bikerdood1100 This deep a dive might SEEM to much for some, but THIS IS REALLY GOOD STUFF

[@rodfryatt4266]

Well done! I had no idea there were so many.

[@bikerdood1100]

Tip of the iceberg in fact

[@GrrMeister]

5:28 *My Dad had 2 Velocette LE Water Cooled Bikes, the first I think a 149cc which was well underpowered. However he later acquired a 197cc Version from my Uncle and although much better should have been at least 250cc - but I presume Tax Laws at the time made it impracticable ! *

[@bikerdood1100]

It is interesting that it was never enlarged particularly after the 250 learner law I suspect a lack cash may be to blame

[@GrrMeister]

@@bikerdood1100 There was no restriction of Engine size back then for Learners

[@chrisweeks6973]

@@GrrMeister The UK's 250cc maximum capacity for learners was introduced in 1960.

[@paulreed3716]

Sopwith Camel..Biggles at his best As a kid in UK I had a Fairy bicycle,very proud at age 5😂

[@bikerdood1100]

Well the fairy name crops up quite often Best known would be Fairy aircraft The ABC engine would also be used in light aircraft too before Sopwith went bust only to set up shop again as Hawker aircraft Harry Hawker being his chief test pilot and business partner before Harry’s untimely death

[@ianseddon9347]

Interesting collection… as usual most things were invented in England, but good copies were made in Germany!

[@bikerdood1100]

What like the bf 109 😂😂😂😂 First production motorcycle was German Not very reliable apparently 😂 German bikes are like there tanks Overweight and hugely overrated

[@bikerdood1100]

Fascinatingly the Germans copied the Mosquito during the war Even gave the plane the same name , except in German obvious It was terrible

[@susannedemasgelinck5342]

1 of the first big boxermotorcycles was the Mars 1000. With a engine buildt by Maybach.

[@bikerdood1100]

Maybach is often associated with Mercedes but was one of the pioneers of the ICE and did indeed produce engines for multiple applications

[@stefanpaege2046]

You missed out the BK 350 built in the GDR in the 1950‘s - that would have been a chance to talk about a two-stroke flat twin.

[@bikerdood1100]

Yes I featured it in a video on eastern bloc machines

[@steveball2307]

I was just thinking the same! Fascinating little thing.

[@mervynprice7009]

It was very noticeable that the ABC shown had nice fat push rods replacing the thin ones as originally fitted. The original were notorious for popping out.

[@bikerdood1100]

Was rather cutting edge That said the video shows two different bikes on two different continents So if both have far push rods Could be a factor Change ?

[@RedRouge-j4j]

Wasn't there a Panther flat twin? I was told it was used in Speedway because the push pull reaction from the engine helped it bite the shale in time to the engine. & I have definitely seen a Scott Squirrel with sidecar raced in a sprint event. Hartlebury tading estate.

[@bikerdood1100]

There was a Guzzi like V twin the panthette Douglas flat twins were popular in speedway in the early days however

[@gntdriver2840]

Iam pretty sure there was also a small Italian boxer twin engined bike from the 1950's too and possibly a Spanish or French built one as well edit....the Italian bike was the Capriolo Cento 50,one of which is on display at the Sammy Miller museum alongside the French built Ratier 750 but this bike supposedley originated from BMW parts left behind after the WW2 German occupation of France. The Spanish boxer twin was the Mavisa 250 Sport which was a shaft driven 2 stroke

[@bikerdood1100]

Likely so

[@MrGindre]

J’ai tout appris, merci !

[@bikerdood1100]

Cool 😎

[@CaptHollister]

One flat-twin very few have ever heard about is the Honda Juno. A scooter from the early 1960s that featured either a 125 or 180cc ohv flat-twin. When it comes to quirky, though, I think the IFA (later MZ) BK350 takes the prize. Styling-wise it was very conventional, but the engine is a *two-stroke* flat-twin. Not a very common layout.

[@bikerdood1100]

Oh there are several I could have put in there

[@xvdd1]

Lol, I learnt to ride a bike on an LE around the school playground and we built a hovercraft using a Valiant engine as the lift motor.

[@bikerdood1100]

Nice Wonder how well it worked 12hp ain’t a lot

[@xvdd1]

@@bikerdood1100 It worked ok as it competed in an inter school competition I cannot remember how well it did though I was not the pilot and if I remember rightly the rear drive was turned through 90 degrees to drive the prop, there was a separate engine for the motive drive but cannot remember what that was but then again it was over 50 years ago, lol.

[@bobrodgersonsmostlymotorcy9265]

You missed out on Humber Flat Twins. They had a water cooled 500 cc produced around 1914 and a 600 air cooled produced in the early 1920's.

[@bikerdood1100]

Well can’t fit em all in There’s a couple of others too Williamson had a 1000cc engine built by Douglas for example

[@Jay_Speed]

@@bikerdood1100 Maybe a second part ?

[@RZVPeter]

Very interesting video! Out of curiosity, do you know what the bike in the background is at 7:08 with the silver and red tank?

[@bikerdood1100]

Think it’s an MV 350

[@andrewcole7895]

I heard that the Sunbeam S7 & S8 used a worm drive on the shaft rather than bevel gears (I don’t know how that works on the overrun) to overcome a BMW patent. However, that does not seem to have affected the shaft drives on these bikes. If true, I wonder why Sunbeam encountered the problem.

[@bikerdood1100]

A worm drive is often found in mechanical speedometers Problem was it got very warm and wore out rapidly in the Sunbeams The company had to limit the engine to 25 hp to reduce wear rate However the bikes also suffered with nasty vibration which resulted in the engine being rubber mounted The styling didn’t appear to the riders of the day They were a conservative lot So sales were slow

[@andrewcole7895]

@ Indeed. I suppose the answer to my question is maybe Douglas etc paid for the patent rights. I still can’t see how a worm drive doesn’t lock- up on the overrun and strip the worm, given the forces involved on a bike.

[@tomellis4750]

Just look at the mudguards, which did what they were supposed to, unlike the modern, fashionable ones which are pretty useless.

[@bikerdood1100]

True on many, although not necessarily all to be fair

[@trevortrevortsr2]

The 2 stroke Velocette Viceroy boxer scooter motor had potential - but like the Triumph they never really understood the scooter market

[@bikerdood1100]

Well the triumph was at least more conventional the victory was a real oddball by comparison In truth the scoot market hit saturation by the mid 60s, particularly in England

[@pettetread5959]

The douglas dragonfly was a beautifull looking bike. The colour scheme and overall design was classy. I wanted one when I was a kid but they were scsrcer than frog feathers. Never did get one.

[@bikerdood1100]

Yes the Douglas company was that bit too small and could never produce their bikes in big enough numbers

[@davidcranch7890]

My dad was a Douglas fan. He died at 93 in 2019 but was still riding his blue Mk 5 and cream Dragonfly well into his 80's.

[@andremaertens5964]

douglas dragonfly flat twin loved that bike

[@bikerdood1100]

Certainly a very stylish little number

[@CharlesSkinner-o6y]

Pity no mention of one of the most innovative flat twins which was way ahead of the "same old, same old" British twins - The Wooller. Look it up !

[@bikerdood1100]

There are several I left out purely in the interest of run time Of course I’ve heard of Wooller both their early two stroke horizontal single and the flat for 🙄 No need to look them up The Wooler father and son team didn’t really have manufacturing facilities and had their machine manufacturing outsourced, with the exception of prototypes of course To fit every flat twin into a single video would be a nonsense You forgot Williamson incidentally if we are talking veteran British and Ratier if you want continental and more recent ( De Gaulles motorcycle escort of choice) Then there’s MZ and their 350, look that one up 😂😂

[@bikerdood1100]

I did cover Woolers flying bananas in a video some time ago 🙄 You didn’t seriously think I’d never heard of Wooler did you 😂

[@annajeannettedixon2453]

duoglas engine develoment was done by my great uncle freddie dixon he won the first IOM side car TT 1923 had disc brakes all round his design and had banking contorl

[@bikerdood1100]

A Legend

[@marcmatthieu1939]

LILAC, CEMEC, RATIER, MIDUAL, check these brands if you are a curious bike fan.

[@bikerdood1100]

MZ , Williamson amongst others There are lots to choose from Lilac was made by Marusho Favourite flower of the owners wife see my video on Japanese bikes

[@wozza59]

I’m sure the ABC flat twin was the basis of BMWs flat twin. According to Granville Bradshaw ‘The German B.M.W. firm came to our A.B.C. works and acquired rights and at their request I increased the engine size to 500 c.c. How heartily I was cursed when it came over, and was the first machine of foreign manufacture to win our T.T. race.’

[@bikerdood1100]

That’s really not the case at all, something of an urban myth which is unfortunately incorrect BMW of cause made aircraft engines but started production of their flat twin engine as a portable static engine. Other companies Victoria for example made use of the unit in a motorcycle which prompted BMW themselves to follow suit. The link with ABC is quite untrue I’m afraid. I have heard a couple of people repeat this myth but it just that The ABC & the first BMW were very different The ABC was OHV and chain drive The BMW SV and shaft drive. Other than basic layout they shared little The after the collapse of ABC Sopwith continued to sell the engine for light aircraft use before going under completely. The BMW story is just a story I’m afraid

[@bikerdood1100]

Oh the first foreign machine to win at the TT races was Indian not BMW. BMW were at best the 3rd foreign TT winner Moto Guzzi managed it in the 30s being the first foreign rider/ foreign bike combination Tenni as well as two in a week for Stanley Woods and that’s just from memory there are likely others even in 1939 Benelli won the light weight earlier in the week So yeah literally everything the mentioned is wrong 🤷🏼 Every days a school day as they say. What can I see I read a lot and need to get out more 😂

[@wozza59]

@ Oh well I suppose Granville must have forgot about some of the other foreign machines when he made the above statement. 😆

[@danweyant4909]

You get that footage of the Marusho, Valiant, & Zundap yourself? I recognize Barber's!

[@bikerdood1100]

Tend to use my own where possible I always carry a camera, bike shows ride outs Where ever Sometimes you have to use other sources but less often these days as I build up a library of films and images

[@danweyant4909]

@bikerdood1100 Just wondering if you enjoyed the track and collection as much as I have. What a place.

[@jacketrussell]

I wonder why none of the big Japanese manufacturers went down the watercooled flat twin route in the 1980s?

[@bikerdood1100]

Welll not forget the Goldwing and the CX was very similar in character to a MW I that’s to say heavy Copying the Guzzi layout makes more sense from an engineering point of view Simpler, better natural balance, shorter pushrods, more compact and then there is the ground clearance Seeing from a Japanese perspective I would suspect

[@davidmarkwort9711]

Wasn't the Ural a Zündapp copy???

[@bikerdood1100]

Nope Boxer engine Was a BMW built under license starting pre-war The Dnepr is now built in the Ukraine but started after the war initially in a factory near Moscow using BMW tooling taken at the end of the war but was later moved to a new plant on the Dnepr river

[@bikerdood1100]

Interestingly later the OHV DNEPR had a sleeve bearing crankshaft which was a copy of a Zundapp design which may explain the confusion, the Zundapp unlike the Soviet bikes wasn’t a boxer although it was a flat twin

[@ianseddon9347]

Where is the IFA two stroke?

[@bikerdood1100]

Actually in another video Limited myself to 10 Not making a 2 hour video No Williamson, Ratier etc either Better to think about what’s in a video rather than what is not I think 🤔

[@JR-bj3uf]

I worked in a BMW shop in the 1980s. We had a "customer" leave a Marusho with us because he was sure we could fix it. It looked just like a BMW, how hard could it be? It was not a BMW and nothing fit nothing. It was still, tucked away gathering dust, in the back when the shop closed years later.

[@Volker_GR]

Nevertheless, it is interesting to note that in their early years, Japanese manufacturers orientated themselves on European models or even produced real replicas. In addition to some British models, the Yamaha YA-1/YB-1, for example, is one of countless derivatives of the DKW RT 125 that existed in many countries around the world, from Harley-Davidson to the BSA Bantam.

[@bikerdood1100]

Also not pretty much all Japanese 250 two strokes even the late v twins run the same bore & stroke dimensions as the Ariel and a number of other European bikes If it ain’t broke etc

[@JR-bj3uf]

@ Early Honda's take a large amount of their manufacturing and styling cues from NSU. Lots of welded/stamped steel components.

[@danweyant4909]

​@@Volker_GR Much as early cars were based on wagons and the early fiberglass boats were the shapes of wooden boats of the time - you start with what works

[@danweyant4909]

Sounds like a BMW shop, alright. Turned their noses right up. I can see why they closed.

[@pascal-l2z]

Il y a aussi ( MF 650 ) avec le moteur citroen visa 😁

[@bikerdood1100]

Was fitted into a limited production motorcycle in the 80s Very heavy, fairly ugly Very 80s

[@JosipRadnik1]

Dnjepr's and Urals are NOT license built BMW's - they somehow are evolutionary derrivatives from the M72, which in itself was a reengineered BMW R71 - but that was in the 1940's to 1950's and the Dniepr's and especially Urals have moved on ever since. So you can't really call them license builds. They might be inspired by BMW, but at some point, every bike manufacturer ist somehow inspired by some other model

[@bikerdood1100]

Well the Ural was indeed just that with production starting pre war Under license The Dnepr however was woo booty with production moving to Ukrain from its original factory near Moscow 🤷🏻 Although both were later evolved they both started life as BMWs 🤷🏼

[@stefanpaege2046]

All boxer engines are flat twins but not every flat twin is a boxer…

[@bikerdood1100]

Hence I avoid the term boxer in the title and in the video 🤷🏻 Zundapp never made a boxer fyi

[@DonMason-cv6og]

What would call a K series B m w

[@voornaam3191]

It was great, but too expensive. It was cheap, but not great. The company went bankrupt. The customers had no money. This misery never ends. What is wrong with those Brits? They screw up each and every fantastic bike. Well done. Just asking, WHY?!

[@bikerdood1100]

Well there speaks an expert 😂😂 The British industry went down for the same reason the US industry did many years before. Inexpensive cars. The model T did not have the same impact in the UK as it did in the US. Advent of the mini and a bunch of other affordable cars from the late 50s on Try reading a book 😂 It’s amazing what you can learn if you try 😂😂 Prior knowledge makes for more interesting and informed questions don’t you think

[@voornaam3191]

Waykey waykey, aren't is not spelled arnt. Watch that text again. Pallease. What a messsss. And that akzend, is that from northern Wales? It zoundz Polish. Can't help it, they ride the wronk side of the world, maybe Sweden, just centuries ago? Suhzyaziz Denmark?

[@bikerdood1100]

Gee an American ( I assume ) or possibly colonial ( who cares which) correcting English Hilarious how un-self aware some people are isn’t it Shame you probably find the irony passes right over you head