How Much Travel Do You Need?

[@TheRealDanBell]

Sounds like a jet war in the background.

[@bikersedge]

Pretty much.

[@cloudsandcorrado]

It is

[@jonc.5310]

@@bikersedge Where is this? Curious what base is nearby.

[@bikersedge]

@@jonc.5310 This is in Kaysville, UT so its Hill AFB.

[@thetonk2173]

@1:40 I think a jet just went supersonic lol

[@tomashanzlik2595]

In process of picking a new bike and last week, I literally spend 50% of my wake time reading through articles and watching vids and this is definitely the top 3 I have watched! Good work, love the numbers and times.

[@bikersedge]

Hey thanks! Glad you liked the video.

[@neaaat5545]

Haha going through this same process

[@tommysampson3575]

@@neaaat5545 samee

[@JoseTorres-rl3rz]

Which bike did you end up with if? If you don’t mind

[@tomashanzlik2595]

@@JoseTorres-rl3rz I am happy owner of Specialized Enduro - tried some friends' bikes and most were much harsher even when set for slightly lighter riders. Still watching reviews and the only other bikes I would consider now is Santa new Megatower and new Trek Slash (I tried neither). Enduro is for its weight very decent climber (never touch the shock lever) and beast downhill that pumps almost too much confidence for a mediocre rider. Only downside I recognized is a problem with clearing very tight turns - had a few I have to go through several times before clearing them nicely (up or down - no endo turn in my repertoire) but that might be also a lack of real skill... Also worth mentioned that I ride a bikeparks and black trails so if you do not plan to do the same these bikes are nonsense overkill.

[@bakedmacaroni7078]

:how much travel do you need? James Harden: yes.

[@gamehunter788]

Nicely done 👌

[@josechavez2148]

🤣🤣🤣

[@TheWeardale1]

all of it..

[@rafaelgodoy3703]

double punchline, excellent joke

[@repp181]

ahahaha GOD I hate James Harden

[@mariearseneault9437]

This is probably one of the best bike reviews I’ve seen on KZbin. Succinct, well organized, and honest. It was helpful to have two different opinions in one video. Nice job!

[@bikersedge]

Glad you liked it! Thanks for the kind words.

[@Hawlkeye-e9p]

Apposed to the corporate machine doing and saying anything to sign your ccrd up...ya

[@financemarin]

Agreed. All comments on point. My only question: Where is this awesome area?

[@justinbigatel6780]

Ya I was scrolling though looking to see if he said anything about where they were. Looked like park city but not sure what trails.

[@certainperfectratio]

@@financemarin Park city I think

[@Jon-nz3dm]

I think the most important factor is simply where you live. I see all these youtubers living in Cali, BC, or North Carolina that are all running around on 160mm fork enduro bikes, but where I live in the Dallas, Tx area that much travel would be silly. We have no elevation, the whole area is pretty flat with lots of short burst climbs into 5 second descents. Anything over 130 is completely unnecessary. And that really makes it fun, having a short travel bike here. In north Texas, a 26-31 pound bike is much more fun than a heavy 34 pound enduro bike.

[@koretell]

well said, I was riding the N. Shore back when my arms were my suspension , ha ha. For me looking to get my 1st FS in BC I'll compare one bike MF. For 2020 the Meta tr mid 29 is in the 1190MM WB, And i think thats where the AM was last years. Now the AM is in the 1200mm with 160mm i believe. I'm fascinated on how this has changed in the 2 years i have been thinking of a FS, I think it's going to be the TR, and maybe upfork it by 10mm. For the NS and my local Bike park.

[@AustinsThicc]

Jon L kinda of agree but having a 130/130 trail bike I’m looking at going up to probably the 150/140 range. Trails like sansom park in Fort Worth and Cameron Park in Waco can be unforgiving on the short travel bikes. Those are the 2 main trails where I spend 80% of my riding.

[@UltimateMTB]

Exactly, here in New England every trail system is either a giant rock garden with singletrack trails that are mixed climbing and descending or a lift-assisted ski resort bike park. Unless you're riding at the park, anything more than 130 is unbearable on the climbs and wont really help you on descents. No trails really flow like the ones shown in this video

[@5tr4nge75]

Here in the southwest UK, or trails are either nearly flat, and best ridden on a fully rigid. Or so steep and balls out insane that even a 160mm full sus is underbiked. And there doesn't seem to be any middle ground. It's certainly an interesting place to ride.

[@austinsmithey8508]

Same down here is Austin, anything over about 130 is complete overkill. I have a 100mm xc hardtail and there have been just a couple times so far where ive felt under biked(or just underskilled)

[@jedimanultra]

Tbh I think 130-150mm is sorta a good start point for anyone who wants to hit trails, have good pedal efficiency but also hit some downhills when they arise. I’ve got a 130mm trail bike, but with its good Geometry and intelligent riding it’s never really felt out of place, it’s not the best when going downhill but once you start popping off roots to skip sections the bike becomes something else

[@Niidiin]

1 bike, for 1 rider, for 1 playground 🤘 no bad bikes in 2022, only different priority. Nice test. 👌

[@timhofmann1819]

"If I had only one bike" is such a theoretical question! 😅

[@arloridesbikes9921]

An enduro bike is the answer, it can do xc and dh

[@arloridesbikes9921]

My mates have hard tails and im the fastest on the climbs and descents

[@lukasbormann4830]

Nope not for alot of younger riders 😂

[@rolux4853]

Arko why not a trail bike?

[@lukasbormann4830]

@@rolux4853 because look what the video says

[@hardmtnbiker]

I believe that you can push a short travel bike and use it as a medium travel as needed just depending on the “set-up” Wider rims with 2.6” tires, stronger brakes, and bigger forks is just an example.

[@PeepMeRide]

Nice comparison! I've decided that I'm currently over biked for my local trails and riding style. I rode a 120mm on a trip last month and it was so playful and fun that I'm going to make a switch (at least for awhile). I don't need to be the fastest. I just want to have fun. Cheers

[@bikersedge]

It's a nice change of pace and can open your eyes to a new style of riding.

[@ZeroCool-vn9bd]

The thing is, you can have 120mm of amazingly dialed travel or 120mm of travel where you are bracing yourself for every rocky section depending on your fork/tune. Dampener construction makes a huge difference. I have a specialized enduro with a lyrik that I put a coil U-Turn spring on one side(115mm-160mm adjustable travel) and a DH damper on the other side, since these shocks are so system interchangeable in the sram lineup. It may weigh a bit more than the air equivalent, but it's so versatile, and feels so good for jumping and DH after experimenting with many different fluid weight combinations. Bottom line is, there are many options out there, and there is no replacement for travel if you need it. Granted I have a dedicated bike in every travel range and category, I love my enduro, and if I could only choose one bike out of 11, it would be the one.

[@kayakutah]

I love the climbing hard time data, Vs. "well, it felt faster"!

[@bikersedge]

Thanks for the feedback. It was nice to actually be able to back up our thoughts with some data.

[@MrJoshItIs]

sorry to be 'that guy', but I studied stats, their data wouldn't be statistically significant, with possibly the climbs if it were to be repeated 30 times as normal. I'd hazard most of the differences were well within the differences of multiple timed decents. I could be wrong, put the onus is on that real data.

[@MrJoshItIs]

that being said, I'd lean to trusting their 'feel' because that is a seasoned rider making adjustments because they felt it needed.

[@jppickavance]

This was a solid video and review. It really does break down to what you can afford, what you ride mostly, and what preferences you have. I as well have drifted to an enduro carbon bike and feel it climbs surprisingly well. The reward in pointing it down as it “feels” like it makes me a better rider. I would also in the perfect world have an enduro bike and a short travel trail for the variety. Agin, enjoyed the info on this video ... pedal on!

[@dadventuretv2538]

I demoed the Tallboy. What a bike for less technical and gnarly trails but that still can get steep. I like my Bronson for the one bike to rule them all- smaller wheels and bigger travel = maneuverable, poppy and plowable = fun anywhere. Nice vid. Great getting such similar bikes to limit the variables as much as possible to just suspension travel.

[@bikersedge]

Totally right. The Tallboy can shred with the big kids. I really like that bike. Glad you liked the video.

[@feinchan]

here i am crying with my 100mm xc hard tail

[@depe8658]

105mm xc as well, fully though

[@froznfire9531]

I drove with my 80mm wallmart bike in bike parks and it worked... sure a fully is better, but use what you have and have fun with it :)

[@igormarinkovic1531]

Why not ... i feel like i dont need more than 100mm

[@two_broberni7233]

I have a 120 mm hardtail and i like it like that i dont need more than that

[@danielvillada8866]

I have 75 mm travel and take it everywhere

[@kenilworth7070]

“Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile; winning's winning.” - Tallboy

[@ronclarke8546]

Excellent review and comments by both riders! Very honest and helpful! Thanks! I have a 120mm short travel 29er and I love how it rides on the trails I have available to me here in Florida. One day I'd love to demo an enduro at a bike park.

[@bikersedge]

Glad you liked it! I'm starting to find that a 120mm bike can be super capable and a heck of a lot of fun.

[@cantrdr]

What an excellent review. I bought the HT but rode the Tallboy back to back with it just this weekend (and a MT a while back). Your review is exactly how I felt. Find the trails you love and there is an awesome bike for you. But between these three, the HT magically encapsulates the TB and MT in one...opportunity costs regardless.

[@bikersedge]

Glad you liked it. Stoked you're on a Hightower. It's a great bike.

[@msrfrog]

Where you live and ride is a huge factor. Im very happy with my 27.5 trance . Might seem like over kill for a all arounder , but in the Catskills it's very rocky and rooty. I did ride a $500 hardtail for two years in the same conditions. And then I got my trance. So much more fun on the trails. Although slightly slower on climbs and smooth decents.

[@joyfred100]

What travel is that 140/150? Im in the Catskills too and in the market, happy to have a recommendation

[@msrfrog]

@@joyfred100 I think that was the specs 150 up front and 140 rear. On the 27 .5 that is. The 29er is different . It's a good trail bike . Soaks up lots of roots drops and rocks.

[@thisisbenji90]

It seems to me that the 120mm bike worked the best for you guys despite the comments. It was only marginally slower in the downhill and significantly faster climbing.

[@mojitomaker]

How you came to your conclusions, and how clearly you communicated them, was super valuable - great video, thank you.

[@bikersedge]

Hey thanks for the kind words!

[@chrizzla1978]

Thanx. After 5 days of searching, watching and reading i choose the megatower. I wish I had found your video at the beginning. It’s the resoult of 5 days searching. Perfekt 👌 keep on!

[@bikersedge]

Glad you found it and that it was helpful.

[@bsk2er762]

How much travel megatower has?

[@bikersedge]

160

[@dcouture79]

I ride a Bronson because I wanted a bike that could climb but rock the descents. SC drops the new Tallboy and oh my! Had no idea the trails could be that much fun. Insanely capable for a low travel machine

[@peaohvee1784]

I've got a 13/120 mm trailbike and i'm picking up a DH in a couple weeks :)

[@ethanlewandowski1939]

I know I’m late but how is it?

[@mojaverc1585]

Yeah hows it going

[@averageoutdoorsman9799]

Location is a huge factor too. Midwest here. Very few local trails that will max out 130mm+ suspension. But I still love the slack geometry.

[@NoRecoil2012]

The trail bike had the fastest times 4 out of 6 including on the flowy and tech downhills. Shows that it’s all about rider skill, not amount of travel.

[@adrianc6534]

Fastest isn't always everyone's priority. Some of us old fcks just want to have a session without being in pain for days after.

[@MaxMustermannnnnn]

I started at 130mm with a Fuel EX. Later I bought a DH bike. Because of the DH bike (i ride a lot bike park) I got so fast that i went through the travel of my Fuel EX all the time with max spacers in the fork and shock. Bought a Megatower.

[@RichardsWorld]

Should a heavier person 225 pounds, get a bike with longer suspension travel, or go to a heavier duty bike?

[@bikersedge]

I don’t think that’s needed. Buy the bike that fits your riding style. Suspension can be tuned to fit the rider weight. If you ride short travel trails buy a short travel bike.

[@RichardsWorld]

@@bikersedge Makes sense. Thanks!

[@chrisrey4664]

Thanks for all these videos! So many bikes to chose from but I really appreciate 2 different riders and their preferences. My current bike is a 2019 Bronson but I've been blown away by the enduro bikes that can climb. They all have bigger travel and climb 100x better. I do love me some climbing 2-3k but it's always for fun decent. Just picked up a SB160.

[@igormarinkovic1531]

most of the vids are about trail bikes as thats the standard now. my bike is now looking more trail than xc and its even labeled like XC Trail. New times new solutions. Im on 100mm as i spend most of the time on flat but i like light trail and climbs are so interesting to me. I live near danube and there are dozens of swamps and forest roads its beautiful.

[@conanthanoz19]

My 2005 Slayer "All-Mountain" bike with 125mm of travel would be the Trail bike in this test, although with the smaller 26" tires, it's probably not even close to as good as the Tallboy as a Trail bike... This video has given me a lot to think about. I think the upgrade that I need most, that isn't discussed in video...need friends to ride with.

[@luisguevara4113]

Great review! two different opinions but they explain WHY they chose the one they did. Knowing their train of thought helps the audience choose the right bike depending on what trails they have around and how they like to ride, fast, play around, XC, and so on. Keep these thoughtful reviews coming. Thanks guys.

[@bikersedge]

Thanks for the kind words!

[@EpicRev1]

This has been the industry challenge in other sports such as snow skiing or tennis. Any time you monkey around with geometry design changes to positively affect performance in one area there is always a negative affect in other attributes. The "Trail" bike is the one quiver bike, good at everything, not great one thing. Longer travel bikes in general (enduro) add two components to it's riding characteristics that will negatively affect climbing. One is weight and the other is longer travel bikes are less efficient, your typical pedal bob. Lighter frames /wheels with an efficient rear linkage system like the DW link (found on the Ibis bikes) will greatly improve the pedaling efficiency up hill. Riding preferences is all in the eyes of the beholder.

[@Twentykixx]

Nice edit guys. Most of us who ride regularly over multiple disciplines and topology understand the design philosophy and geometry of the current mountain bikes in the stream. My first bike into MTBiking was a Trek EX9 All-Mountain rig. This bike had 130-120 full suspension travel. I then went to Scott as I matured to benefit from a single quiver bike using the twin-lock and never looked back. After buying Scott’s 2017 Genius 700 LT Tuned that supports 27.5 and 29ers with 160/160 travel and the twin-lock for geometry when climbing/fire roads/descents, this bike smokes everything I’ve ridden as a quiver killer bike. Each configuration using the twin-lock has crushed all comers and encompasses all three of these bikes presented here literally into one bike. From 27.5 @2.35” all the way to 2.8” tire sizes and the flip chip for 29er @2.6” tires is truly a quiver killer. From all day rides in Galbraith, to A Line in Whistler, bike does it all progressively. What I’m getting at is this, from entry into mountain biking, to mid-high transition, into the gnarlier burly trail-sets will define your weapon of choice. A rider who doesn’t understand what he’s looking for and decides that safety via abundance of travel, will not enjoy the ride if they live in certain places. Which will also tend to increase the cost much more than they expected to spend. 1. Research your local riding trails and typical riding expectations based on your skill set. 2. Research your local bike shops and test ride different manufacturers and geometry configurations. 3. Go to the most gnarly trail head and take a walk. Meet some riders at those places and ask questions. They will guide you and give experience lessons to assist you. They may even get you riding with them and you will progressively get better. 4. Don’t spend too little or you will have a terrible entry into MTBiking and possibly get hurt. This sport is great but you WILL have crashes and setbacks. Last thing you want is to have your rig be the cause. 5. Buy all the safety equipment...helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, some good knuckle padded gloves, and eyewear. Use them all for your first year. 6. Don’t try to use clipless right away, use flat pedals when starting out unless you have previous experience using them. Any decent rubberized athletic shoe will suffice. 7. Watch a shit ton of KZbin professionals to edify your fundamentals related to equipment, skills, and experiences. 👍🏼

[@Rose_Butterfly98]

I guess I'll stick with my 120mm. Since I need to use it for daily riding as well.

[@igormarinkovic1531]

im with 100mm

[@TrailBreaker]

I have a 130 mm 29er trail bike and a 153 mm 27.5 bike. Thought I’d use the trail bike most of the time and the enduro on “fun” days but end up grabbing the enduro every time! The trail bike might be lighter and faster on XC type trails but I don’t care. It’s just not as fun for me 😁 Nice comparison BTW👍🏻👊🏻

[@bikersedge]

Thanks! Personally that's how I am. I end up with the big bike and just riding trails that suit it.

[@bryanmurphy26]

150mm sounds like a good place to be.

[@johnwick3725]

You guys each need a dedicated mic

[@bikersedge]

We have one. Doen't help much when you have F-35's taking off right over your head.

[@TheBlocGod]

@@bikersedge *cough* lapel mics would help *cough*

[@michaelKOTD]

@@bikersedge if you mentioned that in the vid it would of made it less distracting xD

[@_rhapsodist]

@@bikersedge it would have helped a lot

[@Wheelsanstuff]

The audio was fine.

[@jonanderson1777]

I have a tallboy4 with a fox36 set to 140 and cascade link at 128rear. Fun new england bike

[@bikersedge]

Those cascade links look cool.

[@justaname109]

I ride a full sus 140mm travel bike (2017 Scott genius 720 plus) feels like the best of both worlds in a sense, having enough travel for what downhill I ride, plus the 2.8 tire provided some additional supplenesses, but also having partial and full suspension lockout capabilities for climbing.

[@bigredman31]

Thanks for the reviews, I was torn between the tallboy and Hightower. Now, I’m still stuck but Leaning Hightower 😂

[@bikersedge]

Glad you found it helpful. I think the Hightower is probably a more versatile bike that will cover a wider variety of terrain. The Tallboy will be more enjoyable on mellower trails.

[@Cartsp70]

GREAT REVIEW THOUGH GUYS , I’m not criticising, Ive just demoed all these bikes and I love the Megatower, Me personally though I ride a 2018 5010 XE BUILD with Dt Swiss carbon rims and 240” hubs , it climbs incredible and descends just as fast as the Megatower

[@daveharris39]

Usually there are differences in HTA and Seat tube angle as well as the differences in travel and weight. The shorter travel bikes that I've ridden have a more slack STA, which makes a big difference to me in how it pedals. A 75.9° STA vs a 76.9° STA (Spur vs Sentinel) is the main reason I sold my Spur. I'm simply more comfortable on the Sentinel, and if I'm more comfortable, I'll ride more and I'll ride more confidently. In short, if you're not trying to win races, ride what you enjoy rather than what is "best" for some other metric.

[@bikersedge]

It makes sense that shorter travel bikes have slacker STAs though. There’s less travel to sag into so you don’t need it to be as steep to keep your weight centered on the bike. If a 120mm bike had the same STA as a 170mm bike you’d be way further forward than you’d want at sag.

[@WildMidwest1]

Been on my 2020 Tallboy just over a year now. I bought her on a whim because of love at first sight. My two slight grumbles are: (1) the Fox 34 Performance fork becomes challenged on sandy washerboard fire service roads. That could be my setup more than the fork itself. Sometimes I wish I had Grip2 high and low speed compression and rebound settings rather than Grip1. On the other hand, the simplicity of Grip1 means I spend less time fussing and more time riding. (2) Setting the shock sag is pretty unscientific. Because the shock piston is in a frame tunnel it involves measuring pencil marks on toothpicks. Sag setup is an issue I knew about before buying the bike. The technicians at my LBS who sold me the bike couldn’t help me with setting sag… they just shrugged and said “good luck.” I expect sag setup is similarly difficult for Hightower, and maybe Megatower. After lots of testing shock pressures I think it’s about right, but I couldn’t tell you what percentage my sag is. I replaced the 175 mm cranks with 165 mm to eliminate pedal strikes. I tried a 34 tooth SRAM chainring before returning to 32 tooth on the 165 mm cranks. The 34 tooth chainring is better for 175 mm cranks, and the 32T chainring is better with shorter cranks. Those details relate to my local terrain and body form. We Are One Union wheels with I9 Hydra hubs are a perfect complement. I tried a bunch of different tires and I am happy with Kenda trail tires as long as I stay away from goats-head thorns. On flowy SoCal trails and street riding (90% of my year-round riding) I couldn’t be more pleased with this bike. She’s a real beauty - I get compliments on her all the time. Thanks for providing a great Santa Cruz comparison review.

[@kawkaw7234]

awesome breakdown...these are the kind of reviews everyone at a crossroad needs

[@bonefishboards]

I have multiple surfboards for different conditions. But I can't see getting more than one mountain bike. I need to figure which bike I'm getting. I've been riding my 1990 Cannondale F1000 hardtail with the Head Shox for 30 years.

[@bikersedge]

Anything at this point is going to be a massive upgrade. If we can help with suggestions, let us know!

[@dev_IL666]

140mm to 160mm is all you need !!! If you know how to work it that's all you need. NO need for a downhill bike. Been riding my all mountain/enduro since 2012 and never lets me down.

[@waldowsxxghostxx8577]

I would say 140mm is the sweet spot for me I’m building a hardtail that is compatible with up to 150mm but I’m going with 140mm and I’m getting my very first FS in a 120-130mm configuration

[@alexsoti3997]

I have a Enduro with 180 front, 165 rear, ok i'm dying when I have to climb but bro the descents feels soooooo good

[@LucasGoncalves-sp5nh]

SB165?

[@gregmacdonald2237]

Great video guys. Took a no right answer topic and helped us to be able to do a better job when shopping!

[@waynepriest6403]

Excellent job of riding all three on the same trail, same day, same weather, etc. Levels the conditions/playing field so that we can focus on the bikes. [I'm trying to figure out if I want to move to an All Mtn Bike from a Trail Bike] Thank you

[@bikersedge]

Thanks for the kind words. The test wasn't perfect but we felt it gave us a good idea of how each bike handled the terrain.

[@pierrebroccoli.9396]

Good conversation. I went from a XC Hardtail to a 150mm Enduro bike. Love the latter. Yes the climbs can be a bit of a grind but I find the Enduro bike better on tech and loose climbs than the XC and then when you point it down hill - fun fun fun. Also air time and popping off stuff, the Enduro is just so much more capable. Just firm up the compression on the suspension if the trail is less rowdy and pop away.

[@SoundboxPR]

Do you got a 29 or 27.5?

[@pierrebroccoli.9396]

@@SoundboxPR 29er Trek Slash. Bit slack on the seating but a good bike otherwise.

[@SunsPSD1]

Thought this was a really cool idea and well done. Thanks for this!

[@Mctyz125M]

The gentleman on the right I had a feeling he would weigh more into the megatower because of his height. Looks more like the riding style. I feel like I would go more towards the tallboy for the way I ride, even though the hightower and the mega tower is more comfortable downhill. But having the tallboy suspension a little stiffer for how aggressive I ride made a major difference. Also moving the bars a hair forward gave more confidence in all sections body height 5' 10". Would like to try a little less head tube angle and the crank set a little further back. Possibly go to a L to an XL if I had less head angle. Curious thoughts.

[@Getoutside2day]

Enjoyed your review on the 3 types of mountain bikes. I can relate to Brock, especially coming from the tallboy and now to a longer travel bike. Me going to an all-mountain style bike just fits me better for my style riding and trails I ride (or willing to ride). :)

[@jimm244]

I have a 5010 and a (pre-mullet) Bronson, the 27.5 equivalents of the Tallboy and Hightower. The comparison is similar. The biggest difference is the 5010 is more poppy and the Bronson a bit more supple. The 5010 is a more efficient climber, but the Bronson is fine. The 5010 is fun at the bike park, but the Bronson is more planted, faster, and even more fun. For flowy & twisty the Bronson is fun, but the 5010 makes me grin ear to ear. If I’m riding all day in mixed terrain, I’ll usually take the Bronson as it’s less fatiguing and a bit more forgiving. If someone was looking for a single bike only (27.5), the Bronson is where I’d steer them. And btw, an enduro bike is just too much for 90% of what I ride. Maybe it’s telling that I just decided to add a 29’er to my life and chose the Hightower. The 5010 and Bronson will be sticking around, but I bet a year from now I’ll be grabbing either the 5010 or Hightower (based on the ride) and the Bronson will be collecting dust until someone visits from out of town. When they visit, the Bronson will guarantee a fun time wherever we go.

[@axial27]

I currently have a 150mm travel all mountain bike, but I demoed and Ibis Ripley, and riding that made me realise how important good suspension platform is. So my next bike will be a bit shorter in travel.

[@bikersedge]

DW link is really good. Sometimes a good suspension design will let you get away with less travel.

[@bucktales66]

Great comparison video. I'm a former cross country guy from the east coast living in Cali and I can't get enough of the bigger trails, drops, rocks out here. I'm leaning towards an enduro bike. I need to find a demo day to compare different bikes bake to back.

[@bikersedge]

Its super helpful. Really highlights the differences between each one.

[@fekkyb]

I really enjoyed this video. It give me a clear insight on the differences between the 3 types of options and possibilities. 👍🏽 I would also want all 3‼️😁

[@xthunder769]

What are the chances that I came across this video and my sons names are also Connor and Brock

[@nils5861]

low

[@AlexNourse52]

This is them from the future

[@lrvz7187]

Well, what are the chances of you being their dad? That would explain everything 🤔

[@bikefailsandwins6337]

@木枯らし get lost

[@huntii]

140/125 , never had a problem

[@sasholz]

Why not using an all mountain with 150mm Suspension and a fork which can reduce the travel to 130mm so you have the best of both worlds of trail, enduro and even bikeparks... Correct me if I am wrong? Is there a fork actual on the market which works like the Fox Talas back in the days? I can remember that fork was able to reduce its travel for climbs. Combined with a premium damper which can lockout for efficient pedaling...

[@bikersedge]

It doesn't really work out that well. Personally I think the rear suspension plays into it more than the fork does. That's where your pedalling performance comes from.

[@scottpowell7668]

Though this video is a couple of years old its still very informative but I/m not sure you'll see this question. I've been on my Santa Cruz 5010CC since I purchased it in 2017. I live up here in the Pacific Northwest where we have some long technical climbs (1000' to 3000' climbs) and the moderate to extreme descents. I've only recently been riding with some very good riders who have pushed my harder than I've been pushed in many years (I'm 61 years old but in good shape but they're all 20 years younger). I noticed that are all on 29'ers and I have 27.5. To be honest going downhill (I'm just an above average mountain biker, not extreme and not a jumper) I don't have the confidence on steep technical downhills. So I was looking at changing to a Hightower to instill more confidence (per some recommendations) with a increased head/tube angle pushing the wheel out further, more travel (as compared to the 5010). The local bike shop has the Tallboy and will not get a Hightower for at least a year. Wanted to get your opinion on a Tallboy for a above average rider, not going for speed or big air, just having a fun time with friends on hopefully a more confidence (downhill) inspiring bike? Thank you!!

[@bikersedge]

Glad you liked the video! I don't think the Tallboy is going to get you much more confidence, especially on steep and rugged trails. The 29" wheels might help with rollover, but you're not going to gain a ton in terms of confidence. A Hightower is going to be a much more forgiving option if that's what you're looking for.

[@jmanswat2457]

Unless I'm at the lift served resort, a 130+- travel range bike is the best all around. I prefer down hilling but slogging uphill SUCKS!!! The lower travel and weight bikes really open up the terrain and trail options and variety. And who knew that I wouldnt mind climbing as much when you're on a bike that accommodates it!?!?

[@NoShredDad]

Can’t imagine HT that much different in weight then the MT. SC website claims almost identical weight. Real world might be different. Could not help to notice MT was coiled.

[@snowairland]

👍🏽 I’m excited for the occam am review.

[@bikersedge]

Just dropped today.

[@mattjustin3596]

Great video, was trying to decide between the Hightower and the Tallboy.

[@bikersedge]

Thats a tough decision to make. Luckily you can't really go wrong either way.

[@simpleman5494]

That's what happens to me: I bottom out with my 140mm All mountain, I raise pressure to not bottom out again, but then have terrible damping, and the bike feels rock hard...

[@bikersedge]

Have you tried volume spacers? Also, bottoming out is normal. I set my suspension up so that it occurs most rides on big impacts. Harsh bottom outs aren't great. Volume spacers might help with your problem.

[@eagleeye9693]

if you have the option of locking your suspension like for example the scott genius 940, or scott ransom 920 22. does the extra travel then matter in an uphill?

[@bikersedge]

Yes. Extra travel usually comes with more enduro style geometry and heavier duty components. Those thing will have an effect on how the bike climbs.

[@rolux4853]

How does the Santa Cruz 5010 fit into this comparison? I’m looking for a super fun and poppy bike which is also able to get the hill up fairly well. I don’t care about times or racing, I’m only interested in how much fun a bike is. I don’t want a bike that sticks to the the ground and makes mellow local trails feel super boring, I had real downhill machines before and they stick to the ground way to much. I want to use every little root, stone or bump as a kicker and have the time of my life, even when riding fairly easy trails. Also the 5010 is fairly expensive, is there any bike that’s as playful and poppy but doesn’t cost a fortune? I’d also consider an aluminum frame, if it has the same playful character! I’ve looked into the Marin Hawk Hill 3(the price is amazing!) but there’s not a single one available in whole Europe..

[@bikersedge]

It’s like a 27.5” version of the Tallboy. I bet the TB would win a race both up and downhill but the 5010 would have more fun doing it.

[@rolux4853]

@@bikersedge now almost a year later I finally got my bike! It’s the Tallboy CC in the X01 version with the Reserve wheels. It was a demo bike, so I got it for almost 50% off, still with warranty over the bikeshop where I got it from! I was lucky to find a really good bikeshop and got to test both bikes for a full afternoon each in the Harz Mountain. The reason I went for the Tallboy is that I do 3-4 mtb tours a week, which aren’t very gnarly. My local trails go up and down a lot and also have a lot of riding without any ascending or descending. The 29“ wheels of the Tallboy are much better suited for this type of riding. Even if it is not as nimble as the 5010, it’s still very playful and I get the best of both worlds. If I need more downhill capability, the bikeshop told me to look into the cascade link and get a 140mm airshaft for the Pike. I’m super happy with my decision for the Tallboy and your reviews played a really big part in it! Thank you guys very much, keep on doing what you do!

[@88997799]

My custom build 2018 Santa Cruz V10CC has all the travel I need!

[@zach.225]

Where would the 5010 fit in this line up?

[@bikersedge]

Right next to the Tallboy but with 27.5 inch wheels.

[@zach.225]

Biker's Edge thanks

[@StraightLine_MTB]

I'm a fan of having 2 bikes...but fight having the Enduro bike and AM bike when I should go with the trail bike. Great review!

[@bikersedge]

Hey thanks! It’s nice to be able to have an Enduro bike and a Trail bike. Most of the time I only have one. That’s when I go with the Enduro bike.

[@quaaludes7898]

Jeez did you film next to an airshow? :D Great review!

[@bikersedge]

Close. Air Force base.

[@Gdownification]

So where would the Bronson or something like it fit into all this? 160F/150R travel, kinematics that supposedly feel like a mini-Megatower, but 27.5 wheels and a slightly shorter reach and wheelbase? Would you get more chunky terrain performance than the Hightower but more agility and playfulness than the Megatower? Or would it feel like a poor compromise?

[@bikersedge]

I'd put the Bronson right in line with the Hightower rather than the Megatower. It has a bit more travel but the difference in wheel size makes them fairly comparable. The Bronson is actually one of my Favorite Santa Cruz bikes.

[@Gdownification]

@@bikersedge Ok, thanks! That’s what I was wondering. I have a 2021 Stumpjumper Evo on order, but the wait is around 5-9 months. The shop can get a Hightower in on the early end of that or a bit sooner, and has a large Bronson in stock right now that is really tempting. The info really helps a ton! With the bike market as it is it’s impossible to try most bikes out, so you have to do some hard research lol

[@bikersedge]

@@Gdownification Best of luck deciding. I've ridden both the Hightower and Bronson a bunch. there's no substitute for wheel size, but those bikes are pretty close in capability.

[@Gdownification]

@@bikersedge Ok, thanks! And thanks for the content, it’s really great stuff.

[@TheButlerNZ]

My new old bike is 178mm, before that my old Foes was 152... in between (my road and downhill cheapie) was 76mm of RST awfulness. Even my old enduro trailbike (1986 Yamaha IT200) had 300mm.... The 10yo totems on my Giant are a little brittle in their response tho.. My old Bombers on the foes were so plush my favourite trick was to stick a neubie on it and tell them to ride into the nearest gutter... watch them tense right up followed by the comment "I hardly felt it?"... (3.0" Gazzaloddi's helped... man I wish I could get one now to restore the foes. (it still has 20yo ones on it and I only retired it in Jan.

[@geronimomcbr2863]

Un a pregunta....es la.misma bicicleta con diferente recorrido ?

[@jst1199]

Is it a mistake if I buy an old bike with 100mm fork ? It's just to finish the summer but it's still costing money. What I want is an 140mm forks. The question is, how bad is a 100mm in wood trail rider over bridges, rocks, roots ?

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Depends where you Ride I Live In Vancouver So I Ride A 160/155 CF Warden Its An Awesome Bike 😎

[@coltonwinkel510]

Man that first trail is glorious 🤤

[@MrSkyline1337]

ive got a 130mm trail bike and have started to hit some gnarly downhills that are loose rocks,drops,big steps and lots of steep techy sections and its keeping up alright though i do think i would need at least 150-160mm of travel because ive progressed quite fast and the 130mm trail bike is going to hold me back, so i think anyone who wants and is able to ride gnarlier stuff to just get a better and bigger travel bike from the start so you dont have to buy and sell again.

[@bikersedge]

You’d be surprised what you can ride on a 130 bike with proper geometry.

[@LeDank]

I ride a 120mm on everything. Just bought a 135mm as an upgrade. I think that will get me through as gnarly of stuff I care to ride. If I went to bike parks all the time with lift access, I’d get an enduro. Either way, all bikes are good.

[@mattkeyes8385]

My LBS kept telling me that most peeps run too much travel for their riding. After a bunch of demo rides, I agreed and bought an all mountain bike instead of Enduro and am quite happy

[@bikersedge]

I’d say your LBS is probably right. I know that most of the bikes I ride are bigger than they need to be but I also like how big squishy bikes ride. At the end of the day it comes down to preference and what makes you stoked to ride your bike.

[@charliepalmer2465]

I think one thing you should touch on next time is Air pressure , and how that could help make lower travel do more...

[@adamadamsson6521]

can you lower the wind volume? thanks

[@m00nchildblues]

Only one bike, my Ibis HD4 hands down. It seems everyone w an AM/trail bike are always finding ways to beef up bikes, like swapping forks to 36 160, 2.5+ tires,dual piston brakes,etc. You rarely see enduro riders downgrading or wishing their bike climbed better. I cant afford 2 quality bikes but i can afford a nice enduro and decent hardtail for am/trail/xc coverage.

[@g0me2z]

Nice comparison especially i am looking into buing santa cruz bike :) But i have a question about bigger jumps. How does rare shoch 140mm compare to 160mm in terms of poping the bike and landing bigger stuff ? Bigger i mean up to 10m distance or 2m drop. I am riding 160mm Giant Reign 2017 and i feal like this bike is dead when poping it and i can not feel the bike in berms. I pumped the shock really hard and the difference is huge and i like it when it is more stiff but i am wonder how the shorter shock behave on big jumps.

[@bikersedge]

Generally the more rear travel you have the more “dead” the bike is going to feel on jumps. A lot of the poppy feel comes from the bike’s suspension platform and some will feel better than others. Bikes will less travel usually feel more lively, though. They will also handle landings pretty well unless the landings are flat. Just look at dirt jumpers. They hit huge jumps to nice landings with zero rear suspension.

[@g0me2z]

@@bikersedge Thanks a lot for response. Have you ever tested Hightower with 27.5 wheel or mullet setup ?

[@bikersedge]

@@g0me2z Not a Hightower, but I'm currently testing a mullet setup right now.

[@BrandonBoo]

can someone tell me which is the All MTB, which is the trail and which is the Enduro>? looking at a Stumpjumper , a Santa Cruz Tallboy and hightower, I live in FL but moving to NC soon. im 6'3 180lbs and long.

[@pbrenneman5]

I rode a YT Capra 180/180mm for about a year then just swapped over to a Santa Cruz 5010 140/130mm. I think something that was maybe understated was suspension, on my YT I had Fox Factory 36 and X2 and to build up my 5010 I put the Fox 36 on it but reduced the travel to 140mm and the 5010 frame I got had a DPX2 on it. So initially, the 5010 was pretty limited. Sure it was a lot easier to pedal but the DPX2 felt just plain aweful which made the bike feel aweful. At 15% sag I had to run max volume spacers to keep from bottoming out which made it feel horrible on fast small bumps. I swapped that shock out for a EXT Storia LOK coil and now the 5010 feels amazing. I'm faster than the YT on flow trails, about even on fast but somewhat technical decents that aren't too chunky, and on chunky technical decents the 5010 starts to be kind of exhausting to ride so I'm a few seconds slower. The bigger difference to me is pedaling performance , the 5010 is waaaay easier to pedal. Over the year I rode the YT I averaged approx 30 miles a week but on the 5010 I've averaged 40 miles a week so far. As I've set it up, my 5010 is a lot more fun and a lot more versatile a bike and I would never go back to an enduro bike unless I was basically only riding DH trails.

[@k1ngofthosewhoknow]

Any pics on the 5010 with the EXT coil??

[@1bojanbojan]

I know this is unusual question but could u tell me which bike around $4000 full suspension. Is the most comfortable sitting up right position for flat riding. I want one for flat that will be super comfortable crossing sidewalks in city without getting sore now I have specialized bike that has no suspension at all and I’m looking for full suspension! And once in a while I’ll go off road but 95% I won’t. Thank u

[@bikersedge]

I can't think of any super upright full suspension bikes off the top of my head. Most will be way more upright than a road bike, but they will still bring your weight forward over the bars a little bit. With $4000 thats a pretty good budget. I'd suggest trying a few out and seeing what fits you the best and is most comfortable.

[@1bojanbojan]

Biker's Edge thank u ill try to find Stumpjumper ST Comp Alloy 29 locally and give it a try and go from there. Thank u

[@ROSE-by5su]

:How much travel do you need? Freeriders:Yes Roadbikers:Travel? BMX Riders:Who needs travel

[@lauriavincenzo3040]

the problem is not the travel but the weight of that travel because that 180 mm travel of a 16kg super enduro bike with a open geometry need to go uphill before the downhill

[@bikersedge]

All three of these bikes actually weigh within 2-3 lbs of each other.

[@fillfreakin2245]

LOL, it also depends on where you ride. It might be the POV footage, but I don't think I saw any technical downhill footage in that video. Those looked green and blue trails to me. With two of you making the video it would have been nice to see a few side angle shots of the other person going down what you call technical sections, so the viewers can better calibrate what you consider technical downhill to their own view of those terms.

[@bikersedge]

Good feedback. We will try some of that on the next one. To put the tech trail into context it has an average grade of -20% over a mile. The upper third is covered in aspen roots. There are a handful of 2-3' drops scattered in there. It's not super technical but harder than it looks in the video.

[@downundermtb4744]

Bike for every trail I agree all three.

[@karlheinzreichel670]

What about slow techy stuff, narrow switchbacks and such? Sure there must be some of that in Utah.

[@bikersedge]

We have some in Utah. Especially in the Moab area. But for the most part our trails are pretty open and fast. A good rule of thumb is the longer and slacker the bike the tougher the tight twisty bits get. I rode my Megatower for an entire year and never noticed it was too difficult to navigate in tight sections. I’m sure they Tallboy would have been easier though.

[@karlheinzreichel670]

@@bikersedge Thanks for getting back, dude. It's different over here. Quite a few slow sections with switchbacks, narrow turns and stepdowns. So really long and slack doesn't always work so well. I guess it's horses for courses, pick the bike that best suits your local riding.

[@bikersedge]

@@karlheinzreichel670 There's a lot of personal preference and terrain style that goes into how much you'r going to like one bike over another. There really isn't a substitute for a proper demo.

[@barkingmadman1169]

OUtstanding review. The conclusion, as you said, may be a little confusing. The real value of this video is the discussion and opposing view. Each rider can identify with one or the other reviewer, given their own preferred riding style.

[@MergulhoDoJoey]

I regret buying the TB. Not enough travel for me. Should’ve went with Hightower or 5010

[@bikekakai4412]

Please advise me: I wanna do enduro, xc, bike park & bikepacking. Could you recommend me ONE bike only?

[@dixonbrown4256]

Bikekakai Steel hardtail my guy

[@bikekakai4412]

@@dixonbrown4256 got one actually, Cotic bfe. I mean, full suspension.

[@dixonbrown4256]

Bikekakai That is such a sick bike nice!

[@rox89dgo]

Hello :) can i have an opinion on my bike XC KTM phinx 291?? 100mm rear and 120mm front shock. I see people dont buy european manufacturers as much (at all) so I'd like to hear some opinions if there is any. Thanks

[@bikersedge]

I have never ridden one. Can't really say one way or the other.

[@ryanmerryman7657]

Nice comparison video and better riding!

[@bikersedge]

Glad you liked it.

[@charliepalmer2465]

Can you please let me know what the travel was on the trail vs All Mountain bike.. thank you, enjoyed your video!

[@bikersedge]

Trail had 120mm and all mountain had 140mm.

[@JoseTorres-rl3rz]

Which is a better full suspension, trek fuel ex 5 , trek top fuel 5 , or the Santa Cruz high tower ?

[@bikersedge]

We don’t carry trek. Haven’t ridden them. Cant really say.

[@Sick-o]

I know I’m a couple months late but if you see this could you tell me what the trails were you rode? I’m a PC local and these all look like a blast!

[@bikersedge]

It's mostly a combo of Payroll and Moosehouse

[@Seskel6174]

Hey hum, idk what I should choose. A 160mm hardtail or a 120mm front and rear bike..

[@bikersedge]

Probably both.