Jordan vs. Barkley in the 1993 Finals | The RewatchaBulls | The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo for the third installment of 'The RewatchaBulls,' in which they revisit Game 4 of the 1993 NBA Finals between the Chicago Bulls and the Phoenix Suns. They discuss Michael Jordan's 55-point performance, why this was Charles Barkley's best chance at winning a championship, and why this game isn't remembered as well as some of Jordan's other iconic moments.
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[@mirko.a.83]

These pod with the editing and the cut back to the game over the discussion is GOLD. Thanks ringer staff for the production!

[@KTF0]

Suns should bring back those unis. Loved them and I never wanted them to change it in the first place.

[@withalittlehelpfrom3]

Good news!

[@Ausbrahdave]

Magic having a stroke over barkley and Jordan eating dinner was goat

[@tyleru96]

Just one note: Cedric Ceballos hurt his knee in game 6 against Seattle in the WCF and missed the Finals completely. He didn't just get benched out of nowhere.

[@StarWarsAnime]

I thought the same thing that he was injured!

[@ohkay2360]

Dude averaged 13 in 21 mins on 58% might of changed a game

[@tyleru96]

@@ohkay2360 He might've changed the whole series, honestly. He was a really good spark off the bench for them and provided a lot of energy. That Suns team had 7 guys who averaged double figures during the regular season, 4 of whom averaged 15.8 or more. They were legit.

[@jamesmarhen]

Not to mention for some reason Ceballos was a bad match up for the Bulls. He always played great against the Bulls. At the very least he provides depth.

[@sneakersole2914]

Yes! He would have made the difference in my opinion. Ceballos was a baller.

[@SLPDiscGolf]

Ryen's comment about Jordan being "Cool All the Time" is an awesome observation and so true

[@LordBranniganThe]

Roger Shepard it’s sad for a grown man to put another grown man on a pedestal like that

[@zachariaswells2483]

Reggie Miller fight the only time really

[@dusttaker]

thats why it was so glorious when the Bad Boy Pistons would thump his ass out year after year!!

[@LordBranniganThe]

Inspired is different than being in awe. Appreciating greatness is different that placing another person on a pedastal. Know the difference.

[@SLPDiscGolf]

@@LordBranniganThe So glad you understand exactly what I mean by that...(sarcasm...just in case you need to be told). Where did I or Ryen say that we put Jordan on a pedestal? Thanks for injecting your little PSA into the mix...

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

can you guys breakdown more retro games??? Its great hearing u guys discuss why these teams lost, and what they should've have done to win.

[@ja8ames]

Yeah, seconded, this is really fun, especially the thoughtful commentary on the non-Bulls teams.

[@EamonnCagney]

I love so much about these pods, but I think your observations on the commentary teams and ESPECIALLY Marv!! are so so funny : "Jordan has 47 points but only 4 in the fourth quarter" lol

[@blackphillip564]

2020: The year of the MJ revival.

[@SECRETARIATguy224]

The Bulls did NOT lose the next round after defeating the Cavs in 1989 ("The Shot"). They upset the Knicks 4-2 to make the EC finals for the 1st time in Jordan's career.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Thank you I caught this in the Magic vs Michael video.

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

and I mentioned it.

[@SECRETARIATguy224]

@@alecsanderhamilton9224 Ok then. You're welcome.

[@jdigitalseven7]

I don't know if his tendons or lungs or heart are different than most normal people...but by far his body was just built differently than anyone else. He was pretty much a super hero his first 6 years or so in league with what seemed to be 100% control over his body. Later on he became a master midrange jump shooter/player as his body aged. He was definitely a freak athlete...even all those 82 game seasons he went through.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

It is absurd just how many games he played every season. In the twelve full seasons he was with the Bulls (excluding when he returned for the final seventeen games) he started and played all 82 games eight seasons. The three other seasons that were the foot injury second season where he missed almost the entire season he started and played 78, 80 and 81 games. Excluding the season he returned late in 12 full Bulls seasons he could have played 984 regular season games and he played in 913 of them and started in 902 (lost starts in season 2 in games he played thanks to the minute limit thing). He got hurt in the first wizards year and missed a chunk of games but still played 60 and then in the second wizards year he played in all 82 games but didn’t start some as he embraced coming off the bench a bit. But it’s just wild that even when he was 39-40 he still played in every game. So of the fourteen full seasons he played there were a possible 1,148 regular season games and he played 1,055. That’s pretty incredible and clearly he was built different. But what I think is also even wilder is how at the end of the season in the finals when they needed him he was playing even more minutes a game. For example, during the suns finals he played 45.7 minutes a game. Even in 1998 when he was so physically drained and had honest minutes average in a finals he still averaged 41.7 minutes a game. Who knows if that would’ve changed or how much the two breaks he had helped in that. But still just super impressive. And clearly what he was capable of and conditioned to do was nothing us normal folk could imagine our bodies being capable of.

[@Kumite_Champ]

Jordan averaged over 40 in the finals that year. Let that sink in. Unbelievable.

[@Cotswolds1913]

Aaron Owens In an era with less possessions per game and a slower pace at that

[@MandyZor-El]

Was actually 41ppg

[@ohkay2360]

He also averaged over 33 shots a game 41 off 33 shots ain't that impressive

[@Cotswolds1913]

oh kay He shot 50% on 40 points a game, in a league with a slower pace and less possessions per game, that’s ridiculously impressive.

[@ohkay2360]

@@Cotswolds1913 they shot the ball 7205 times that season thats 88 shots a game 1952 free-throws thats 24 attempts so lets say 10 more possessions 1103 turnovers 13 more possessions that's a 111 possessions league leader in 93 was 118 a game and today's leader is at 118 a game your arguments are homosexual

[@Tolstoy111]

In 89 they did not lose in the next round. They beat the Knicks in Round 2 and got the ECF against the Pistons.

[@sareaper69]

Thank you. Guy brushed the greatest shot ever in game 5 of the first round cavs series in 1989 off like it wasn't that sick last episode. 'The Shot' is unbelievable.

[@tyleru96]

they also played the heavily favored Pistons very tough in that series. They lost 4-2, but it was a super competitive series. The Bulls were actually up 2-1 and then lost a close game 4 and then games 5 and 6 by 9 points each. They were still really young, too, considering Pippen and Grant were only in their second season in the league.

[@at1212b]

@@tyleru96 yupp. MJ and Bulls were coming. There was no dispute. Next year to 7 games. Pippen mentally too weak had an absolute shit game 7.

[@tyleru96]

@@at1212b I think it's a little harsh to say Pippen's mentality was weak. If you go back and watch that game 7, Pippen was clearly not himself. He averaged 19 ppg through the first 6 games of that series, so something was clearly wrong with him in game 7. I give him the benefit of the doubt and think he legitimately had a migraine, and anyone who thinks that isn't a legit excuse has never had a migraine. They are debilitating to the point where you can't even see. I can't fathom trying to play in an nba game with one.

[@cptnsx]

@TheRealist 811 Jordan is on the record saying that 89 was his best year

[@Xmj202]

Russillo lookin like Jason Sudeikis in "whats up wit that"

[@Ginga]

Ooo weeee...!!!

[@AxeMan808]

Michael Jordan is powered by a system of small fusion devices.

[@nikeduck24]

Russillo fitting into that OL combine jacket. YOKED

[@samismith8752]

Grant was a monster this game. Dude hardly gets the credit he deserves.

[@adelinesarkissian8161]

Love Grant

[@roycema]

Monster

[@charlessimmons6573]

I love that mf

[@the80sguy80]

Thats why the had to go out and get Rodman, Grant left and went to Orlando. They really missed his rebounding, which isn`t at all mentioned in The Last Dance.

[@samismith8752]

@@the80sguy80 Yeah the supporting cast in 94-95 was quite awful. There's a reason they were essentially a .500 team before MJ came back.

[@rollotomasi4045]

Did anyone notice that as soon as Tom Chambers subbed in for Mark West at center, MJ took it straight to the hoop in the 2nd quarter? And Barkley never helped out on defense when MJ beat Majerle off the dribble...even when Dan was screaming at Chuck for help.

[@lorenzomadrigal3002]

Truly the saddest moment for chuck stans, HE DESERVES RESPECT

[@giannis.ioannidis.1995]

Theme draft: who could guard Jordan in the '90s? 1st pick: Scottie Pippen 2nd pick: Dennis Rodman

[@dusttaker]

MJ made sure they was on his team lol Would Lebron do that?

[@gabrieln2065]

@@dusttaker that's such a stupid comment.. scottie was drafted to the bulls.. no one thought he would be this insane defensivly. rodman was a gamble that paid off. jordan didnt shy from competition. every time someone said he could guard jordan, he would directly attack him! to show his dominance, thats a GOAT. lebron is afraid of kawhi as an elderly afraid of coronavirus.

[@edmerc92]

You forget Joe Dumars.

[@dusttaker]

@@edmerc92 he always put the clamps on MJ leading the Pistons along with Isiah Thomas to a convincing mastery over MJ and the Bulls. Isiah/Dumars played team ball while MJ played hog ball. This lesson convinced MJ that hey I got teammates! And if I use them better maybe we can win too!!!

[@PowerGearPerformance]

@@dusttaker they wasn't ready until 1991. Go check Bulls in 1987,88. That supporting cast was shooting bricks. Only Paxson could shoot

[@rodaxel7165]

Kevin Johnson really let me down in this series. It was the best chance Charles Barkley to win a ring. One of the best to ever play not to win one. He still gets insulted for not winning one. I wish he left the Sixers earlier when Malone and Irving were done. Dan really tried to defend MJ to bad he was just damn good.

[@Bricks_shakur]

I was a big Richard Dumas guy Barkley was my favourite player and I'm also upset, he never got a ring. This series came down to 2 particular plays in game 6 when Barkley didn't want to foul Jordan hard, and he got an and one! And it also came down to a play where Horace Grant made a pass to PAX. When he was indeed was supposed to be fouled out, he was supposed to get his sixth foul five minutes before and I forgot who they gave it to....But if we watch it back, you can see he was supposed to have been fouled out, that pass was never supposed to been made to Paxson. KJ was ass this series too✌

[@dubbrown5594]

I always say who were Ewing, Barkley, Dominique's sidekick?

[@BernardMoon]

KJ was so awesome during those years. He would smoke Magic and other point guards during those years when hot. And who could forget his straight up dunk on Hakeem?? Yeah, I think MJ shut him down for a couple games during this series. But I wish KJ and Barkley won at least one ring.

[@joeysukhi6889]

@@dubbrown5594 ewing had a alot of great teams.

[@dubbrown5594]

@@joeysukhi6889 Who was great?

[@zogood3495]

The Marv Albert impressions were pretty funny lol

[@michaeljamesmccabe]

So awesome! Thanks for doing these!

[@75aces97]

Other thing about the 3 pointer. If you were born 1965 or earlier, you didn't play college basketball with a 3 point line except a few early season experimental games. And if you were born before 1974 you may have played some high school ball without the arc. Meaning at some of your prep level the shot was not part of the game. More importantly, it took a long time to get rid of the old coaches who grew up on and played basketball with no 3 pointer. Coaches that age are mostly dead or retired now, but it took a while.

[@buckwildboys1]

I wish there was more content with analysis of classic games or moments in NBA and NFL history!

[@brandonwright3119]

So refreshing to have people discussing basketball that actually know something about basketball.

[@blackphillip564]

Bill pulled the executive move and forced RR to talk about Chuck getting mawed by MJ

[@zenoftupac9096]

39:30 Bulls took Will Perdue at 11 instead of Dan Majerle who went at 14. Perdue wasn’t completely useless , but Majerle the much better pick ( 3X All Star ). Where Will Perdue really paid off for the Bulls was in year 7 when he was traded to SA straight up for Dennis Rodman.

[@ohkay2360]

If the spurs were trading for purdue they would of traded for majerle

[@zoeywitz6884]

Krause wanted to take Majerle but... I mean, they already had Jordan at the 2.

[@MeMe-td1ye]

Yep - bigs have more value hence got rodman trade. Krause was right with pick

[@RatedRex1]

Bulls also took soft-ass Stacey King over Shawn Kemp. Imagine a lineup of Jordan, Kemp, Grant, Pippen, and Armstrong.

[@authornahsun634]

@@RatedRex1 - That line up would've been nasty 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️

[@brandon1942]

Thank you for talking about one of my favorite Jordan shots

[@mitchell7309]

I think Ryne is referring to the playoff series versus the Bullets. Chris Webber commented on it before. Jordan arrived at the arena in his Ferrari while smoking a cigar, and asked who was going to check him. Proceeded to drop 55 on Calbert Cheney. On all jumpers. Poor guy.

[@seeehorn]

Bill Simmons is providing some GREAT content here with these videos, I like how in depth each video is. I've got to mention several things here: Early in the video Bill mentions the 1993 Western Conference Finals Game 7 Seattle at Phoenix in which he jokes that David Stern "made the call" and ordered Suns to win!! I've never heard this about that particular game(2002 WCF Game 6 SAC at LAL and to a lesser extent 2001 ECF Game 7 MIL at PHI are brought up as rigged games) , but it sounds believable considering that Barkley was the MVP in 1993. What are some other Conspiracy Theory Rigged playoff games?? I respect that we have knowledgeable commenters here who corrected Bill and Russillo on Cedric Ceballos being injured in the 1993 Finals and not benched, but I disagree with these commenters on Ceballos' value, Richard Dumas was better than Ceballos in 92-93, even though Ceballos became a way better player in the future when he left Phoenix, and we know the unfortunate demise of Dumas after this 1993 Finals About Kevin Johnson, I recall that he suffered a leg/knee injury during the final game of the season, Charles Barkley hit a shot at the buzzer to win at Portland, Kevin Johnson went to jump towards Barkley to celebrate and ended up suffering the injury. THAT is probably the reason he struggled in the Finals and a lot of the 1993 playoffs. If K.Johnson was healthy in the playoffs, Phoenix may have won in fewer games against the Lakers, Spurs and Sonics, and played better in Games 1 and 2 against the Bulls. Also, when you guys were reading off KJ's stats/accomplishments from 1988-1989 through 1993-1994 it shows how DEEP the Western Conference was during those years with the Lakers, Spurs, Jazz, Rockets, Sonics, Blazers and Suns. You had at least 5 championship level teams every year.

[@GiantsHunt]

Kevin McHale in the modern era would be a god tier stretch 4-5. He had unbelievable shooting touch and he could easily pick up 3 pt shooting, and had good stamina and legs to run the floor.

[@WhelmedButReady]

His post-up highlights are insane. I can't believe how fast he was with those takeouts. That man McHale would've put every big of today in the torture chamber. One of the most underrated greats ever

[@kirbythomas2497]

McHale crazy underated He was Dirk before Dirk

[@scarykurapika100yago2]

He was a pest defensively too with those long arms

[@chrisg2214]

Love this series. I wish defense is still a part of the NBA. They should bring hand checking back

[@Reefism]

Cedric Ceballos was injured during the 1993 playoffs.

[@ja8ames]

It's interesting, I forgot that he was on the roster because he was absent from my memories of these finals, but I was just watching the Suns/Spurs game 6 from the semis that year, and he was coming off the bench shooting great, just not getting to play much.

[@MysticMungusSlungus]

Watch Ryen's face when Bill says that Dumas took Ced's job ( 20:34 ) . Ryen let him off the hook.

[@tyleru96]

he actually played in the majority of the playoffs. He got injured in game 6 against Seattle and missed game 7 of the WCF and all of the finals.

[@DaSuperFan312]

A healthy Ceballos would’ve given them a better fighting chance. But Dumas showed good flashes of his talents, could’ve had a better career.

[@xudongliu7232]

That's why Penny Hardaway called Jordan "The Machine"

[@wizard932]

Why do I like bill Simmons so much lol

[@jwp1002steel]

Simmons is wrong at 3:29 - Bulls won the series after the Cavaliers "The Shot" game, beating the Knicks.

[@istfejo]

Nope, they lost to Detroit 4-1 in the ECSF

[@jwp1002steel]

@@istfejo Bulls beat the Knicks in the next round and then lost to Detroit 4-2 in the 1989 ECF.

[@fabioburgos878]

Correct. Yurri is thinking of 1988

[@purplemonkeydishwasher4241]

@@istfejo Bulls lost to the Pistons in 6 games in 1989 in the eastern conference finals, the same year as "the shot" against Cleveland.

[@edmerc92]

@AnEn Simmons is mixing up 1988 and 89 because both years the Bulls beat Cleveland 3-2 in the first round, so it's a reasonable mistake.

[@jhall1887]

To give more perspective on how 3s were not a major part of 90s basketball I was watching Bulls vs Lakers in 91 and Marv Albert is referring to long 2pt shots as "From deep!"..lol. Im watching this and thinking about how ridiculous that sounds now but back then that was normal. From deep now is considered from the logo.

[@BernardMoon]

When Dan Majerle got hot, he was hitting from 35-40 feet. So many games for a few years back then. I don't know if there are many highlights on KZbin, but I assume there should be some.

[@CareFreeCommuting]

Here’s why the clutch shots aren’t brought up, because the clutchness of one, can spread like a (don’t do mention it anywhere...) virus to others. If you ever played team basketball, at any age and on any court...and there’s a “great player,” who is leaps ahead of everyone else in mentality and will and game...well...everyone feeds off that confidence as well...in the end...people who played with Jordan hit those shots because they believed in something beyond their greatness, through the greatness of MJs story. Simple as that really.

[@benhaney5843]

I understand how you misunderstand them because they were just talking about Paxtons 3 but they were actually talking about the clutch Jordan shots that don't get brought up. Not the guys around him clutch shots. They're saying that that game 5 shot against the Cavs where he jumps and throws out his arm like hes punching the air after the shot gets brought up again and again even though it was a relatively meaningless shot in the big scheme of things. While other clutch MJ shots, probably more important and just as good, like the one they showed, rarely get brought up. I understand your confusion though.

[@CareFreeCommuting]

Marzipan Hughes damn man, I see it to, I love LeBron’s game but I watched Jordan and LeBron enough to not question the GOAT. I think someone will pass him one day, but it’d be like Zion with a Curry 3pt shot lol.

[@CareFreeCommuting]

To add one quick last thought... At some point in time, even before he got a championship, Jordan decided that he was the best basketball player on the planet. He likely determined that if he never won one, he’d still go down as one of the best of all time, but he also had that humble kick of saying he plays his heart out for the fan that spent their hard earn money on a rafter ticket and is the only chance they’ll see him live...so he was gonna put on a show and 100% effort all the time. So yeah, teammates are gonna rise to levels of greatness that they’d have never otherwise. I think LeBron has had that impact as well, but no one on the court had it close to the goat. (LeBron takes the goat as a sportsman’s and leader outside the court, so, everybody got their gifts right).

[@cptnsx]

@Marzipan Hughes YES finally someone said it. I remember that 2014 Finals where Lebron just checked himself out the game with about 5 min to go in the 4th. Just flat gave up. So did the team. That Heat team got beat by the largest margin in Finals history. Next was his overtime meltdown with the Cavs.

[@slytherben]

You guys critique KJ pretty fairly, but the comments section is not being fair at all. KJ was one of the fastest players (maybe ever) and you can see how hurt he is in this series. He can barely move.

[@laucops198]

31:42. That long take from Ryen is a perfect summary of what's so fascinating about MJ. He is basketball's Steve McQueen !

[@iank3924]

Other than KJ, can you guys think of a nba superstar not showing up in the finals? ;) Maybe between 2010 and 2012?

[@Mektek19]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Dollar-zb2ik]

IAN KOST Bosh?

[@razkable]

Kobe in 04

[@NMac30]

Love these! Please please need more!

[@Tolstoy111]

One of the biggest arguments in favor of Jordan is just how thin that first threepeat Bulls team was. After Pippen, most people couldn't name another player. They beat teams that were more talented from 1-12.

[@leonzaduncan2438]

i say this all the time!!!

[@jamal4717]

I think the Bulls had a solid team. Horse Grant was an All Star, Paxson was a good shooter, BJ Armstrong was an All Star, Craig Hodges won three 3 point contest. That is a good supporting cast to the greatest player ever and Pippen.... And remember, the league added like three teams around this time, so that made everyone's rosters worst compared to the legendary teams of the 80s.

[@Tolstoy111]

@@jamal4717 Grant made the All Star team once the year after Jordan retired. B.J. too. They were nice complimentary players but not impact players. Hodges and Paxson were spot up shooters that every team in the league had on the bench. They won their championships primarily with defense, hard play and of course Jordan.

[@215IamTheStreets]

Jamal Horace NOR BJ was an all star until AFTER Jordan retired!

[@mrmacross]

Horace Grant was crazy efficient, particularly in 1992. And don't forget, the Bulls front office was okay with trading Charles Oakley because Grant could replace a lot of Oakley's skills on the boards (especially offensive rebounds) and defensively. Horace only scored about 14 ppg in his prime for the Bulls, but you never needed to call plays for him, and he shot well at the rim and out to about 17 feet. A guy who can do that when Jordan is scoring 30 and Scottie is scoring 20 is really valuable. And on top of that, he was one of the better defensively players at his position and excellent on the offensive glass. The 1992 Bulls Big Three of Jordan (27.7 PER), Scottie (21.5 PER) and Horace (20.6) is one of the more underrated ones in league history.

[@jflack6]

32:05 Kobe took this finger-point style of confrontation of MJ's, too. RIP

[@jbizz80]

Correction for Bill at 20:31. Dumas didn't take Ceballos' job, he was injured. Ceballos suffered a stress fracture in his foot in Game 6 of the Seattle series and had season-ending surgery before Game 7.

[@MrSean3kids]

I love these MJ Last dance Bulls shows you two are doing please do more of these Bulls flashbacks

[@razkable]

the 93 playoffs prove why its foolish to put anyone in mj's class on the perimeter as a complete player since big men are in a different category imo and can't be judged the same way...mj could get you 11 asissts get you 11 rebs get you 45 points get you 5 steals get you 3 blocks..whatever he has to do he did it and he did it effortlessly...almost toying with you...but when your teammates are shit in 85-89 and then in 90 one of them is a bitch what can you do? thats why he didn't win more...he should of 8 peated if not 9 peated in the 90's..insane to think about...I think they win in 94 and 95 if he stays and in 99...2000 was when the other guys fell off a cliff and were not the same but even then harper and pippen were in the conference finals so who knows maybe they had a decade within them

[@bilalmallick8428]

Warriors during their championship runs were top 5 in defensive efficiency. Draymond Green and Klay were really good defensive players. Steph and KD were decent and good at times.

[@chrisperez3614]

Steph and KD are both underrated defenders

[@razkable]

Iggy

[@drewaldridge2964]

How did Bill Simmons miss that Ceballos was out for the finals with a broken foot?

[@Fingolfin30]

I kinda wish Bill brought up the illegal defense rules during this era. If I remember correctly you basically can’t leave your man if you’re defending off ball. If you go to trap it has to be right away or the offense gets fts.

[@DrDetfink]

I grew up a huge Barkley fan. I hated Jordan and the Bulls but this game. I kept thinking to myself, "The Knicks beat Bulls within an inch of their lives...the Suns should steal a game." Suns fall behind 0-2. Then the Suns win a 3OT must-win game 3. Now, I'm thinking, "The Bulls have to be tired. This has to be where the Suns pull even." No. Jordan was relentless. Whatever the Suns did, he made sure the Bulls did it better. Game 4 broke me, even before game 6.

[@sefsizarev]

this should be a series should be for the entire nba history not only the bulls.

[@zeldas24]

Best pod

[@10thinningcards]

Ainge was the Daniel Larusso of the NBA, that killed me and it's totally on point.

[@denigster]

ainge was dirrty - not the poor white guy

[@nichobarton]

Seems obvious what they're missing about KJ--who was guarding him?

[@johngist3761]

Lol he was trash the series prior vs Seattle. GP locked him up then too

[@drewaldridge2964]

If they had Ceballos it would’ve been closer!

[@SeecretWeapon]

5:25 for anyone who doesn't think the players back then. 80s & 90s would be better today with modern medicine, more training, advanced coaching, better travel arrangements, better therapy, softer rules, facilities to work out in YOU ARE CLUELESS! today you see Steph Curry or Lebron practice they have THREE GUYS getting them rebounds to put up another shot right away there's no Larry Bird practicing by himself with dead spots at Boston Garden chasing down his makes and misses There's no 3 guys getting up at 4am with Kobe to make sure he gets 800 makes for the day a guy like Kobe would need a morning and night rotation of guys training with him to keep up.

[@ericwright3798]

Ya people don't like to factor that in. Plus guys start getting that training young. Before they're even teenagers

[@benw7367]

2min 55sec of that clip

[@johngray1189]

Cedric Ceballos wasn't benched. He injured his knee in the WCF and had to sit out the Finals.

[@TheNeeks6]

Jordan and specially Bird would no doubt have much better 3pt numbers playing in today’s philosophy. Their actual numbers clue you in to what they would have done. The legend hit over 40% the first year he ever saw an NBA 3 pt line. Their percentages also were much higher in years they attempted more 3s. Both have about a season’s worth of recorded games when they attempted 5 or more 3s, and they both sank something like 43%.

[@chrisperez3614]

Yeah but Jordan’s years of good 3pt shooting were when they moved the 3 point line closer to the basket

[@coltenbluhm5867]

Marv Albert was Jordan’s Skip Bayless

[@chrislacy1990]

I’d say Marv Albert was the Jim Ross to Michael Jordan’s Steve Austin. “Oh, a spectacular move by Michael Jordan!” is as iconic as “Stone Cold! Stone Cold!”

[@elianoavila90]

I love this shit. These 2 guys know hoops

[@tpoltalksbasketball7298]

I want to watch the movie where these two go back in time to the early 90s and become the greatest Coach-Assistant Coach duo in NBA history.

[@lilpenny1982]

1993 was probably the best season in NBA history

[@razkable]

From a balanced standpoint 94 was better..no idea who was top tier elite ..in 93 we all knew the sonics suns knicks bulls were the best 4 teams cavs next up and a bunch of meh teams...the nba in the 70's was solid but besides that it's usually obvious

[@lilpenny1982]

@@razkable 1994 was the most exciting because of new blood like Webber and Hardaway. Shaq and Zo were in their second seasons.

[@ja8ames]

It wasn't until about a year ago that the name Richard Dumas came up somewhere, and I googled him to see what happened. All that I could remember about his career was this Finals series, but I had no idea that there wasn't much more to know, on court. Too bad, the way things turned out.

[@davidgreenshield2505]

This is an interesting Finals. I would say this to me is one of MJ’s greatest performances. Really thought coming in the Suns had a really good chance to win. They had home court and Barkley had easily the best supporting cast of his career. Bill is right the Suns didn’t play well the first two games with exception of Barkley. As the the series went on I thought Phoenix played with more confidence winning two of three in Chicago. The game six in Phoenix was interesting and I wish you guys would have shown it. The Suns really blew the last two minutes of that game giving up a wide open three to Paxson. Still wonder to this day what a game 7 in Phoenix would have been like. By the way so does Charles Barkley lol.

[@ohkay2360]

95 barkley has better supporting cast

[@davidgreenshield2505]

oh kay I probably should have put up until that point in his career.

[@vshmagadh]

You need to cover the greatest game in playoff history, the charles smith block game . game 5 1993 ECF

[@DanteFiero]

It’s so disingenuous to compare the 93 Suns to Golden State with Durant. The Suns perimeter defense is Thunder Dan, Ainge, and K.J. The Warriors have Draymond, Iggy, Klay, and Durant on the perimeter. It’s not even a comparison. Bill is such a prisoner of the moment.

[@dayra6425]

45:28 please tell me he just sayd randy Jackson from American idol .. if thats what he was doing there that’s frickin hilarious

[@benhaney9629]

The buddy buddy thing definitely started in 1993. Because what came just before this finals? The Dream Team. These guys started playing together on the same Olympic team. Surprised you guys didn’t bring that up... And I think the buddy buddy thing got taken to a new level after the Redeem Team.

[@jdm2339]

didn't ceballos get hurt in the seattle series?

[@jbizz80]

Yes. Game 6 he re-aggravated his stress fracture and missed Game 7 against Seattle as well as the entire Finals series.

[@jdm2339]

@@jbizz80 3 years later and I'm still annoyed about BS not doing his research on this for his whole Dumas digression lol they did a rewatchables for the Seattle/PHX series and STILL missed it sigh lol

[@iank3924]

They glossed over it but the 93 knicks series had some serious defense in it.

[@ChefSwooby]

Also horrific Knicks offensive plays, they had hardly an ball handlers and no outside shooting whatsoever. Their defense is still great to watch today mind.

[@iank3924]

@@ChefSwooby well... of course they didn't have great outside shooting. That wasn't the goal of this era of basketball. Their front court was Smith(6-10) Oakley(6-9) and Ewing(7-0) with Starks and Doc Rivers in the back court. They were by design owning the paint and playing D. Perfect team for this era.

[@ChefSwooby]

IAN KOST and yet they never got over the hump. I’d actually contest the idea that they were perfect for the era. Every time they came up short, it was because of their offense breaking down. Houston finals in 94 is the prime example of course. Every team that won in the 90’s had dependable jump shooters. The Bulls were by no means a “big” team, and yet they dominated. The Rockets had several great shooters. Regardless of the Era, New York needed more guys who could actually handle the ball and make plays. It’s what ultimately cost them in my opinion.

[@iank3924]

@@ChefSwooby starks choked. Team was good enough to get to the finals. They gave Chicago hell. I'm not a Knicks fan but I bet they would anything to have that success again.

[@ChefSwooby]

IAN KOST oh, they’d definitely do anything to have that success again don’t get me wrong 😂. The early 90’s Knicks were great, but in my opinion they could have been even better. Starks simply wasn’t good enough and as a shooter he was so streaky it’s untrue. If they had a reliable threat from the guard position they would have won. Could you imagine the impact a real jump shooter would have had on that team. They would have had everything.

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

The bulls were like the patriots in the playoffs. The whole squad steps up and plays well. Where as teams like the trail blazers and suns. Alot of players are having bad games all over the place. It just shows you how important it is to have a great coaching staff.

[@MrBgood84]

Except the entire country loved the Bulls (outside Detroit and Boston)... Even after 6 rings people wanted to keep watching.

[@diehardoutdoors]

How I’m I just finding this podcast I searched Jordan vs Barkley

[@billyjenkins3672]

Kevin Johnson had an issue with length and speed as a combination. He had no second move for years. The Bulls is what happened to KJ. I love this show with you 2. You guys should totally make this a thing. It’s a lot more basketball nerds out here then you think.

[@gijoey5912]

Always loved that dunk and the f you to Ainge at 36:15.

[@Randydaytona-q6c]

I never thought of the fact that had Magic not retired they really would have been the best team in the West to challenge the Bulls. Lakers won 39 games in 92-93, Magic had 15 win shares his last year before retiring from HIV, so a 54 win Lakers team with an 8 man rotation of Magic Byron Scott Worthy Sam Perkins Divac AC Green Sedale Threatt and Elden Campbell could've given the Bulls problems

[@alecsanderhamilton9224]

Majerle had some clunkers from 93-95. He played great in 90 vs LA. KJ was amazing from 89-95 but sucked in 93. Barkley was an amazing Sixer and Sun ☀️ and had some good to great teammates. But never consistently or appropriately. That's why he's my 3rd best of the 90s after Jordan and Olajuwon. K. Malone is after Barkley for me at 4. Despite K. Malone being a more consistent 90s steady force. But Barkley played better in 93 NBA Finals then K. Malone played in 97 and 98.

[@oliverg8085]

MJ in small ball OR MJ vs a team w/o shot blocking will be like this. MJ will destroy them inside, he is too fast and too strong for wings/bigs. And he can take contact at the rim.

[@bilalmallick8428]

NBA offenses are much better today. Shooting and execution are better today.

[@ArmondoOrtiz76Lincol]

As mentioned around 45-46 minute mark. I'd love to see full and half court traps in the NBA.

[@obijuanjabroni7543]

Richard Dumas was awesome and took notice of his game in Game 5. I remember he was supposed to be traded to Detroit for Rodman until he got done with drugs again. Such a shame....

[@jaysonmagro9131]

Does anyone know if Bill Simmons used to have Clippers season tickets?!

[@Israel-nb7ip]

Yes, he did. In the mid 2000s.

[@CadChamberlain]

Some athletes that seem to have that superhuman recovery: Michael Jordan Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell Deion Sanders Joe Namath Mike Tyson

[@BudFuddlacker]

0:57 You guys should really do Game 7 of the ‘93 WCF. It’s one of the most RIGGED games in NBA history! David Stern would not allow the Sonics to face the Bulls instead of Barkley. I’m still furious over that game

[@James2213-]

Great pod guys, definitely gonna check that kJ game 7 loss

[@Cotswolds1913]

17 ppg at 42% isn’t ideal, but I wouldn’t call it a complete no show. Majerle and Dumas were damn good in this series too.

[@DaleTrinihooperAustin]

The Bigger the Game, MJ rises everytime. Scoring 55 Buckets in different ways in an intense important GAME 4 Finals is unbelievable & hard to do. For MJ it's a routine great performance for him but having the Mental Energy & Stamina to do this shows the type of conditioning level he was in. He is a Super Sayian GT Athlete.

[@christophercase9835]

What type of mic do we think Ryen is using?

[@mr.e347]

Suns not winning a single home game in Finals shows how bad they choke. 93 it should have been Bulls x Sonics in Finals. But ppl wanted Barkley so much. And that Suns won 55 games without him previously season.

[@glorysake]

Probably the greatest Finals performances of all time.

[@razkable]

Shaq had some insane finals games

[@SeecretWeapon]

Dan how do you nail these bottoms and tops on these stocks? How?????????

[@LenGott8345]

Of the 6 Finals, I think 93 was the one where the Bulls probably were most tested and most susceptible to be beaten. There's a reason why it was until 93, next to impossible to threepeat. The Bulls by this point had those WARS with the Pistons from 88 to 91 and I really can't emphasize that enough. They were PHYSICALLY DRAINING on MJ, never mind the emotional toll losing three straight years to them did. Then, they clear that wall in 91 and have their run. The Knicks pretty much became their nemesis, but in 93, that was it. When they lost 4 straight after taking the first two, that was the ballgame. Yeah, they took it in 94 but one call could've pushed the Bulls to their 4th straight ECF. Sorry, 5th straight. Success, especially sustained success is a double edged sword. In the 80s and 90s, time did in a lot of teams. The Lakers, Celtics and Pistons all got folded in part because of a hungrier challenger but time factored in. I think this spared the Bulls somewhat because MJ took a year off. 95 he comes back and they stumble against Orlando, but yeah. Phoenix lost this series and then they blew 3-1 series leads in back to back postseasons to the Sprockets who end up going back to back. Barkley forces his way out of town to Houston in a move that doesn't get blasted as a whole the way KD's 2017 move does. But 1993, oof, I felt bad for Phoenix. The Barkley trade really pushed them over the top after they spent years kinda just being there. Other than TKOing the 90 Lakers in the West Semis in an underrated and understated upset, the Suns didn't do much. This is also another example of, never presume that anyone who loses a title game will be back the year after. Cause the reality is, the team that loses usually has a tougher road back than anyone else. It's not just the 'everyone sees you coming' deal, it's getting over the reality that you were RIGHT THERE and it was ripped from you. Phoenix never got over the 93 Finals ans the franchise hasn't been back since.

[@sQrin]

How can I watch these games?

[@it15]

Jesus, guys, Ceballos was injured in the Finals, who do you not know that?

[@CDiddy-go6cg]

Russillo head look so tiny in the animation. Like beetlejuice. Power move by simmons lol

[@nickd9693]

Barkley was MVP, MJ was 3rd in voting, who was second??

[@KazenoniKakuremi]

Dream

[@nickd9693]

@@KazenoniKakuremi of course!

[@Dats_dope]

Did Draymond green take the warriors to the finals ?

[@andgar923]

KJ was actually killing the Bulls.. until MJ got on him. Once again, this podcast showing how they're not analyzing the game like they think they do.

[@dweb2334]

Russillo mentions that Jordan guards KJ

[@FirstNameLastName-kt3zn]

Did you even listen to this podcast? Both Bill and Ryen mentioned KJ several times.

[@Buttington_Headerson]

Did you not listen lol

[@Ausbrahdave]

KJ was quiet all game up towards the end of the game.

[@slytherben]

@@Ausbrahdave well he just set the NBA playoff record by playing 63 minutes two days before, he had just suffered a hernia that would plague his career and eventually force him to retire, and he was forced to guard the GOAT even though he was barely 6'1. So yeah he was quiet lol

[@benhaney5843]

30 for 30... What a misnomer now. They've done over 100 and were now past ESPNs 40th anniversary. Perhaps they should change the name?

[@edmerc92]

It's a brand name now. No one remembers what it originally meant just like no one remembers what ESPN stands for (Entertainment and Sports Programming Network)

[@benhaney9629]

If you want to see how good of a coach Phil Jackson is... Watch the Kobe and Shaq Lakers before and after Jackson arrived. Sure Kobe matured a bit but the way those Lakers play, their defense, their hustle, their intelligence; it’s like a completely different team after Jackson arrived...

[@benw7367]

14:00 good stuff