Marion, Ginobili, or Odom: 1999 NBA Redraft | Bill Simmons’s Book of Basketball 2.0 | The Ringer

[@brandononda1145]

I agree with most of the picks but Szczerbiak over Kirilenko, Terry, and Artest is outrageous

[@TheOddMindofSamBo]

Brandon Onda Szezerbiak is just shitty Korver

[@capitanawesome44]

Artest a former defensive player of the year not in top ten is outrageous on its own.

[@hwoarangthedoorbell]

Alex Capitan Armendariz They’re probably taking his baggage and poor FG% into account though. He wouldn’t work in a lot of the team environments.

[@antgreen1000]

Terry was a top of the line instant offense micowave Johnson type guy for 13+ years and had a 3-4 year period where he was borderline AS, 38% career 3 point shooter. Come on

[@ManFinest]

They're definitely not doing this by career anymore.

[@Kirbystare1992]

Y’all know Bill Simmons had clippers season tickets??

[@Roberta_Sparrow]

Kirbystare1992 this is good

[@ERam0912]

Underrated joke.

[@prolifik5]

First I'm hearing of it.

[@mr.stuntington2163]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ccb2757]

Damn I never knew bill simmions had season tickets for the Clippers 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@likeaboss3398]

“[insert name here] would thrive in the current nba given the pace of play and his 3 point shooting. I could even see him working in a small ball lineup.”

[@kdsburnerii8701]

TJ Mccarty Lavar Ball

[@Wolvesofsheep]

If you played his career 10 times

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

Yea, they say it too much but this class does have a ton of "gadget players" or "jack of all trades" whatever you want to call them. Marion, Kirilenko, Odom, all of those guys are great examples; they scored without needing the ball, they rebounded very well, Marion wasn't a great passer but AK and Odom both could. And of course, all could shoot the three and have the length to play the 4 or 5 in today's NBA. I think for these three guys that statement is valid.

[@patmurphy8622]

😂

[@aznbllr214]

ginobli 1 alll day

[@vishalsorout]

Absolutely correct. Manu is one of the most clutch players in nba history.

[@Dc-dp6go]

Yea manu was hard. Kobe would speak highly of him. Him as a focal point on any other team he’s numbers pts,reb, and assist numbers woulda blown up. Dude was playing with 2/3 other hall of famers his whole career and still made a hall of famer out of himself.

[@92akucaballero97]

Manu wins a gold vs Duncan and AI with a bunch of cab drivers off the bench . And Ron artest was top 5 in mvp like in 06

[@razkable]

manu was the best player in the 2000 and 1999 drafts at worst 2nd had the best career of anyone in either draft and we can throw in 2002 as well and only amare and brand have real cases over him sorry to marion but he was never much better than manu like brand and amare at their best were...and I still say manu had better career than either brand of amare albeit due to injuries...manu was argueably the best player over 3 drafts and he was chosen 56th or whatever...now in 01 parker may have been slightly better...but I think pau is the best player from 01 then parker so over the course of 4 years many parker pau and amare are probably the 4 best players of those drafts and its insane that one of them were top 8 picked ...the gms back then should be fired

[@cd6xc]

All respect to Marion, helluva player, but they disrespected Ginobili really hard. Well, spent his whole NBA career with the Spurs...

[@SaiyanZ3]

This draft class is so underrated. I would say Manu is the best player in this class so he should be #1 (he's my fav athlete too lol).

[@trvspvrk]

Manu had the most decorated career but Shawn Marion at his peak was better

[@the_auditor1017]

SaiyanZ3 He cost the spurs a title in 2013

[@Jake-jo4fw]

Manu at his peak won 2 gold medals as the guy

[@SaiyanZ3]

Every great player has their down moments. He made for 2013 in both 2014 series against OKC and Miami. I'd take Manu's peak over Marion's peak easily. Better shooter, slasher, passer and higher IQ. His stats would've been better if Pop's coaching style didn't restrict minutes compared to other teams.

[@ohkay2360]

Lmao best is your best season and nobody was better than brands 06 season

[@gregorycastillo4799]

What a draft for versatile players in Ak47 Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom

[@jonsclub123]

ron artest

[@gregorycastillo4799]

Sam Marram big Ron was nice

[@Simon-lg9kp]

And manu and artest

[@544CampStreet]

The Swiss Army Knife draft. AK47 was a fantasy god.

[@dataslul]

Please stop saying Antawn Jamison will be in the HOF.

[@davidhensley7422]

I agree w where ya comming from but its the freakn nba seems like everyone with padded numbers gets in

[@fiftytysondaman4522]

Lol never

[@waxl121]

Webber and Jamison are fringe entrants. They may make it in a weak year but should not make it otherwise.

[@dataslul]

@@waxl121 Webber was a geat player who was the top performer on 55 to 60 win teams when healthy. He's borderline, but only because he was hampered by injuries, but at peak, he was good enough to be among the all time greats at his position. Jamison was a stats compiler who was, at best, a 4th option on a mid tier playoff team. There is no comparison between them, really. It's also not the NBA HOF, it's the Basketball HOF; Webber was also groundbreaking at the college level, while Jamison is considered a player who never came close to living up to his college potential. There is absolutely no comparison here.

[@waxl121]

@@dataslul The comparison is 2 players that will be brought up over and over for the HOF, but ultimately won't make it(and shouldn't). Not comparing anything other than that. They're both fringe. To your point on Jamison; he was on a terrific UNC team(with Vince) and won the Naismith player of the year. He did plenty in college. Not sure what you're on about.

[@SpaceGhost-wx9sw]

They're talking like Odom was a problem during his career when the craziness happened when he retired

[@nba_fan7214]

Agreed. I would have taken Odom 4th over Rip Hamilton easily

[@215IamTheStreets]

I’d have paired him with KG over Francis. Imagine him with KG’s guidance.

[@811chelseafc]

NBA_FAN I think you’re forgetting who Rip Hamilton was.

[@tw3akedd0wn13]

The train went off the rails when he went to Dallas. I think he was 32?

[@nikosvault]

Odom was smoking weed almost every day in the mid-00's. He would look like PIppen one game and have 2 points and 5 rebounds the next. And watch the candy video btw.

[@seena96]

Ginobili should be #1. Dude averaged 30 minutes only twice in his entire career. His unselfishness coming off the bench will always make him one of the most underrated players.

[@sacramentofoodforest]

I think Shawn Marion is a great first pick

[@razkable]

Manu played with a lot of talent and one of the the best coaches...if he was your best player from 04-14 your team isn't making the playoffs...02-04 manu as your best guard is leading you to the lottery as well...

[@CalebShimomura]

Manu's advanced stats are insanely good. Like top 10 in BPM every year for a 6-7 year stretch good. He didn't get the counting stats because he gave up minutes in Pop's system and took a crazy bench role, but he was a really efficient scorer. Was top 15 for a 4-year stretch as a guard in True Shooting %. Is currently ranked 74th in True Shooting%, but again, he did it as a guard. He played with an all-time great, but I think Manu was a hidden superstar for the Spurs. You don't win 4 chips without a really good second option.

[@HITMIDorBIN]

@@sacramentofoodforesthe’s second to me. His peak was higher than Ginobilis, but Ginobili had the better career. Marion was the second/third banana on the suns and they couldn’t win a ring. Ginobili won two rings as the third banana. I know it’s not all about rings, but that’s what separates this argument to me.

[@stingerz122]

Damn this class was actually pretty solid .. no superstars just alot of good 2nd and 3rd players on playoff/championship caliber teams

[@David-mu8hn]

Manu should be 1st 2nd and 3rd.

[@TheIcemanthomas]

David nah I’d go Marion too. His versatility was just too insane to pass up on.

[@esa879]

​@@TheIcemanthomas Manu was the platonic ideal of John Havlicek; criminally underrated career.

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Eric Allard yes. Elite talent. I’m still going Marion. Just my preference. But u can’t go wrong with many either.

[@fabricio2467]

@@TheIcemanthomas but he wasn't as good as ginobili, besides who's going to HOF ?

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Fabricio Piotto both are candidates so.. Marion has already been a nominee, So he will likely get in eventually. You trying to defend against my personal pick doesn’t change anything. Ginobli is the better talent but I’m still taking Marion. He’s easier to build around. This isn’t a convo about who’s a hofer, it’s about who would be drafted first. As a scout, Marion would be the more enticing pick, and picking him wouldn’t be wrong regardless of if manu is better. That’s like taking ray Allen over AI or Kobe. Can’t go wrong. Still an all time great regardless.

[@coltenbluhm5867]

This was easily the deepest draft so far

[@leokizzo3515]

Lamar Odom had all the talent to be an all time great. Never felt like he had that killer instinct and willingness to take over offensively

[@moloch125]

+1 dude could have been special if he had *that dog* in him 🤔🤔 The fact that he never developed his right hand is evidence that he was cool with just being "pretty good" & cashing checks 🤷🏾‍♂️😪🤷🏾‍♂️😪

[@craigerickson8712]

As a clipper fan odom was such a tease . He had so much talent . Got a tripple double , all rookie like 16 and 7 numbers . Then also two drug suspesions , missed a bunch of games and never worked on his shot , right hand or got fit .

[@razkable]

He was a lot like post blazers rasheed...good better than average starter but nothing special

[@loisaida2980]

This content is getting me through the quarantine, but I want you guys to know that Wally over AK47 is not defensible.

[@pedrorojas82]

Manu #1

[@Christopher-dn3ll]

Marion over Ginobili- these guys are awful. They just want to seem different and wiser than other people. Manu was amazing and a winner.

[@rambaral1698]

Chris Manu was a career sixth man, the only reason he has respect is was because he had that role anywhere but San Antonio hes a mediocre to above average guard

[@Christopher-dn3ll]

@@rambaral1698 you clearly didnt watch him play then. If he was on another team he would have run the show. Regular above avg guards don't lead their country to gold over the USA. Go back and watch him play in his prime.

[@vc7363]

They have a point because Marion was more versatile and arguably more valuable to any team out there. Manu is better offensively but defense, rebounding, hustle - The Matrix all the way.

[@92akucaballero97]

Funny thing prime Athletic Manu vs prime Marion did happen ! We know is is better far and it’s in the playoffs

[@razkable]

brand manu and marion over rip gave me hives ….he was a better player than them at his best imo...

[@213byron]

14:25 I can’t believe he’s still alive 😂

[@jonathanfox676]

I once made 5 threes with rookie Elton Brand in NBA Live 2000 and I thought I broke my N64

[@Flawless_VicTory13]

I didn't know the 99 draft class was this good.

[@tubenachos]

No superstars but talented players who were multiple year All-Stars. 🤔

[@spericas]

Regardless on when Manu was coming, taking Marion over him is ridiculous. Spurs vs Suns was a great matchup and they played against each other multiple times. Manu’s BB IQ was so much higher that the comparison is silly, and last time I checked the Suns with Marion never won the last game of the season.

[@pointynobb5498]

Raja Bell was criminally underrated. Elite 3 and D on some great Phoenix Suns teams.

[@amc1140]

If you run Manu's career 20 times, that was the best version of him

[@razkable]

Playing with pop parker duncan robinson kawhi...I would think so....but it would be nice to see him run his own offense be a top 2 option for a decade and also not be a 6th man

[@Young-ep8ik]

@@razkable He was the man in Europe. Won triple crown and Mvp for every league he played in. He was the man in the national team. Won olympics gold medal and beat US national team en route to the championship. Won everything many times over in the NBA. Also averaged 20 ppg off the bench in the slowest era of basketball history in his prime. There is zero doubt in my mind he would have been a 27-30 ppg guy being a franchise player, and really makes you think if he is the 3rd best SG of all time.

[@razkable]

No mention of devean george 3 time champ...or posey being a top 6 guy on two title teams and a top 4 finals guy in some games

[@135jh]

I saw this draft in person. I remember the crowd kept booing David Stern for know reason. After he announced the last pick in the first round he said with a sarcastic laugh " thank you for your hospitality!"

[@lalk3434]

From 1996 to 1999 ..raptirs could have had a roster of camby tmac carter baron davis ...jus wow

[@Andherewego00]

*Raptors

[@Guzzydope]

Raptors management was awful smh. All the way until Boshs departure pretty much

[@gregorycastillo4799]

That would have been a wild lineup don’t know if it lasts long

[@elbowgang9715]

@@Guzzydope they screwed Isiah Thomas after he got the franchise founded and in turn they were dog shit for years

[@Ray-gd3zo]

Before injuries brand was a beast

[@nickrunnels1031]

"Give me on sentence on Shawn Marion" House: *no sentence*

[@leokizzo3515]

Lmao why does Bill keep saying Antawn Jamison will make the HOF

[@HSDJun]

Because the Basketball HOF has no standards

[@raisinbigdaddykane9723]

Because he will. Every player that has scored 20,000 points makes the HOF..except maybe Tom Chambers

[@hey.its.grace.16]

Keep in mind the HOF takes college into consideration

[@leokizzo3515]

Myung Bak Lee true but they also do dumb shit like not induct Chris Webber who is supposed to be a sure shot hall of famer. Dude’s been retired since 2008 and still not in..

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Leo Kizzo Webber is not sure fire. Just because of his name people would think that. But if u take a look at his resume, it’s very light. He’s a slip in. Injuries took a lot of his year away a from him. If anything, he should only get in because they lowered the standards by letting tmac get in. But if they were more strict on their standards, he wouldn’t not be a first ballot guy by any means

[@mashwork6615]

Consistent theme so far all the quality scoring guards have been slighted and undervalued so far. In this era all those guys would’ve been even bigger monsters (AI, B Diddy, Franchise)

[@davincerica7232]

Am I crazy or is Artest too low?

[@j5daniel182]

Odom is a favorite of mine. He was ultra talented! He just was not 100% focused at times. But he had all the skills plus the size. Manu should be # 1 . There was one season where he was actually regarded higher than Kobe (at least in Fantasy Leagues) . The dude killed the Team USA by himself.

[@DeadSezSo]

Marion over ginobili just shows how underrated manu was and still is. Unselfish guy, could have been a 25 6 and 6 guy on most teams but sacrificed and came off the bench and won 4 NBA titles. Marion is really good, had a fantastic 2006 season in particular but Manu is the guy here.

[@cmsquare247]

Wow, this draft was deep, and the GMs did pretty well! I'd pick Elton Brand anyway, even though Marion and Manu had better career.

[@moloch125]

3pt shooting is the most important thing in the world... until they *totally ignore it* when they overvalue Andre Miller 🤨🤨 (Career 21% 3pt shooter) The lack of logical consistency is staggering. PS. Wally over Artest is just ridiculous

[@Irfanhill]

This draft is one of the most underrated, because it doesn't have a number 1 guy and not really a number 2 either (barring Gino who was 2b with Parker and maybe Elton Brand for a few years). But you've got 11 great guys with either a very good peak (Francis, Odom, Kirilenko, Maggette) or quite long careers of being good contributors to good teams (Terry, Miller) or both (Ginobili, Marion, Brand, Artest, Hamilton) I don't understand why Wally S. was picked before these guys.

[@nanaglo4545]

cant believe how far artest fell

[@fiftytysondaman4522]

I'm only at pick 9 and I feel disappointed Artest is still on the board

[@harrisonphillips9625]

Bummed you guys didn't talk more about Baron Davis and how dominate he could be

[@razkable]

If only he learned the three ball earlier in his career like he had in golden state..put peak psychical bounce speedy baron with the experienced crafty savy baron mentally from his later prime years and you have a superstar pg on the level of peak cp3

[@MrBrainiac25]

They keep talking about guys playing in the wrong era, but kept picking other guys over LaMar Odom lol. I know he had his off court problems, but imagine Lamar Odom playing in this era. He'd be similar to Ben Simmons

[@elbowgang9715]

But he can actually shoot unlike Mr. Simmons

[@AaronMich90]

The off the court problems are there no matter what era

[@IvyLeather13]

This draft was sneaky deep

[@ayeev4625]

Bill “I had season tickets that year” Simmons

[@NateArchibaldWithTheFro]

Still cannot believe they didn’t take tat free birdman

[@Sai4651]

4:20 - The reason Manu was the 57th pick wasn't because he wouldn't be coming until a few years, it's because he was an unknown at that time, nobody knew who he was. The reason the Spurs drafted them was because in 1997, the Spurs GM randomly saw him play in Australia and he was impressed by his skill. In 1999 the Spurs had a 57th pick that they didn't care about cause it was such a low pick, so the GM remembered Manu and decided to draft him.

[@danortega748]

So true, it was a risk, mngt did not took him on the 29th in favor of an unknown Leon White, which was made for trade with 40th pick gericek.

[@evanrosenfeld4947]

Why did Steve Francis go so high? For me, I’d go manu, Marion, rip, brand, bd, Terry, artest, AK47, francis, wally

[@eboooo]

Lamar might want the ball but he would want to share it.

[@ldk8]

Lamar over Steve Francis, Baron Davis and even Elton Brand imo

[@davidjesuscastellanosmendo1799]

Men you guys are forgeting some important stats for those players. Artest won defensive player of the year and Andre miller is 11 all time jn assist (which is crazy). Id hace taken them higher.

[@georgecoumbos2511]

@ 3:45 we need an NBA team back!

[@rbaki94]

Not a ton of elite talent but really solid depth in this draft

[@MeMe-td1ye]

How the f is Jamison hof?

[@thomascrowniii1693]

Odom, Ginobili, Marion, Artest, Rip, Elton, Baron, Kirilenko, Francis, Jason Terry, Andre Miller...the rest doesn't matter

[@waxl121]

How dare you disrespect the GOAT Wally Szczerbiak

[@razkable]

wally and posey were good players

[@ishetrying]

Elton Brand would be great in 2022. No one can guard him and he can guard the basket.

[@peterkokosar9307]

Baron should be #1, no question

[@chrismillien7601]

How did Artest fall so far?????

[@GoCards1983]

Underrated class....Rafer Alston wasnt bad either

[@maplebear6527]

ARTEST 11th?! GTFOH.. Artest is top 3 in that draft

[@fiftytysondaman4522]

Easy smh

[@inwhichidie7171]

Top 5 yeah, top 3 absolutely not

[@gringostarr7858]

I love this class. Being a mavs fan, getting a chip in 2011 with Jet and The Matrix was awesome to see. Jet is very underrated i think he won 6th man of the year, won a 3point shoot out? He did finish in top 10 made threes for a career. I think he also scored over 20k points for a career. I know he wore the high socks which i always thought were cool. Damn though lebron baptized him when jet was playing for the celts.

[@HCXWinchester]

Ginobili should be 1, Kirilenko and Artest should be couple of steps higher...

[@johnathannabors3426]

Imagine Marion Odom and Ak47 in this era

[@timmutohfan]

A Spanish speaking Brazilian would call Raja Bell "Haha Bell". Just thought I'd point that out.

[@chrisdub846]

anyone who isn't a back-to-the-basket big man was born too soon

[@Riles3152]

I think if Artest would have kept his head right, he would end up being the best player in this draft. If that "Malice in the palace" never happens, that Pacer team had everything it took to win the whole thing that year. People forget that Ron was also the best player on the last Kings teams that went to the playoffs in 06.

[@RobertBalto]

I love binge-watching these re-drafts but Shawn Marion a future Hall of Famer? Did I sleep on his career? Because I sincerely doubt that he'll be making the Hall of Fame...

[@sammyttheg412]

Marion over ginobili ?

[@michaellee258]

I'd take Baron number 2

[@Xmj202]

Shawn Marion and Antawn Jamison in the hall of fame tho?

[@daleychips7463]

NBA needs a hall of fame BAD. The criteria for the current basketball hall is all over the place.

[@dudemanjack98]

Shawn should be in the Hall of worst looking jump shots

[@dataslul]

Marion has a case.

[@Oncopoda]

Shawn Marion has a 75% probability to make the Hall of Fame per Basketball Reference.

[@dataslul]

@@Oncopoda which is very good, but their HOF probability model is sort of bad, to be honest. It does not factor position and factors height, which I think is silly and likely based on old outcomes which are now obsolete. Ginobili's chances are 20% and they had Reggie Miller listed at 33%.

[@DavidWarrenMusic]

Andre Miller was great on Denver

[@Veyronp87]

too many clowns in the comments talking about Matrix's jumpshot and not the immense impact he had on teams. he was an ELITE 2 way player and justified over Ginobili.

[@davincerica7232]

Yo I remember the 2010 team USA Yoda Lamar small ball five 🇺🇸😃😍

[@xStealthPigeon]

So you guys gonna go straight to 2001 draft class?

[@razkable]

if only parker was in the 2000 draft then 2000 would not look as bad cause 02 outside of the top 3 is awful and really top 2...

[@brownhawk2208]

THE MATRIX

[@fentanyljones6956]

I promise Salt Lake wasn’t saving Lamar. I built a solid 10 year hard drug habit there. It’s a drug pit.

[@abosolute55]

​I love Marion but I would never take him over Manu. Manu at his Peak was the best player on a Olympia winning team and he followed it up with being the second best player on a championship team a year later

[@vc7363]

It's actually pretty debatable because Marion was so incredibly versatile and reliable, could fill up any position on the court and just did everything that his team needed.

[@spericas]

V C And Manu didn’t? He did and won 4 rings. I don’t understand why there’s even a debate. Marion was also soft when it counted.

[@stevesteve0521]

I’ll still take Elton brand number 1. He was a double double machine and score down low as good as any power forward not named Tim Duncan at the time. He was underrated and played for some bad teams in his career. I’ll take ginobili at 2 because he’s definitely the most talented player in the draft. Marion will be my 3rd pick for his all around versatility. Baron Davis is my number 4 and Ron Artest is my number 5. Rip Hamilton is my number 6, Steve Francis is number 7 and Lamar Odom is my number 8. Ak47 is number 9 and Jason Terry and Wally Sczerbiak is my 10 and 11 and Andre Miller is 12. The rest of the draft is whatever

[@troyj881]

Good as any forward not named Tim Duncan? Ummm Garnett, Webber? Really...i cud throw in Nowitski but that wudnt even be fair...smh really

[@stevesteve0521]

I said he can score down low as good as any power forward not named Tim Duncan buddy

[@justincox7955]

Shawn Marion over Manu is ridiculous

[@kw0017]

Deep draft

[@Mitra131]

This redraftables are really proamerican. If Manu came today in the NBA he'd be top 75 of all time

[@dannyf5595]

For about 95 percent of the players they call them “ahead of their times”

[@LordBranniganThe]

mike f and everyone can average 40 points a game

[@carlosg.delgado7996]

bc its true?

[@Benjofresh]

Ikr there's no mention of guys who would be worse in today's game (like Brand).

[@Ashish-xm9ol]

Brand is that 5%

[@diogocosta1305]

@@Benjofresh Bill actually mentioned that

[@Draw_Four]

Take a drink every time bill mentions having clipper tickets

[@zachdavis1481]

I was about to comment this lmao

[@matt9546]

Or says they’re ahead of their time

[@razkable]

they say these things but they forget mix up or lie a lot with the stats and info in front of them rehearsed..its embarassing..posey won two titles as a top 6 guy in his career...miami and boston and was solid in denver new orleans and good in memphis for years ...this just shows how little these guys actually know which is how artest falls to 11 terry to 10 behind ak47 and wally z?..like what?...rip is only 4th not 2?..marion top 2?..really?...I'm taking posey over no defense wally and maggette any day of the week twice in a big playoff game with all the marbles at stake..posey bailed out the heat and celtics multiple times...I never seen wally or maggete do shit in the playoffs in a big moment....they shrunk posey rose to the occasion ..how is terry 10th?...what is going on here

[@fortynights1513]

@@matt9546Or says that he likes their game

[@Stephen246666]

Next draft will be interesting considering many consider it the worst class ever

[@Juice-ig3jz]

I can’t wait. It probably won’t change much.

[@mattc6779]

Tremayne Williams I think he’s talking the video though

[@nasholston5112]

2001 draft wasn't much better either

[@Dc-dp6go]

Kenyon Martin draft right?

[@mike04574]

@@nasholston5112 much better, better than 2002, 2004, 2006, 2005

[@EvilOrso]

The entire lottery are basically all pretty good nba players

[@razkable]

the fact chris andersen was left for the 16th pick speaks to how shit the rest of the picks after him are at 17 onwards ...like seriously the 17th best guy nba wise might be jeff foster then kenny thomas then francisco elson and then at 20 gordan giricek who had literally one good playoff game in his career....its bad after that like horrifyingly bad

[@emilfrederiksen.1622]

@@razkable True but the whole draft lottery has good NBA players. There is no super stars but still a very good draft.

[@fortynights1513]

@@emilfrederiksen.1622The quality contributor draft.

[@lostinthedub8544]

It’s so clearly Ginobli

[@544CampStreet]

He didn't come over for three seasons. I think Manu and Marion are in the same ballpark so it depends if you want to tank or what your title window looks like.

[@scottf1000]

@@544CampStreet Marion and Ginobili in the same ballpark? Come on man. Statistically yeah okay. But who would you trust with the ball in their hands late? Ginobili is on another level.

[@jlnxn5374]

@@scottf1000 yeah but Marion can help you in way more way than scoring, Especially defensively

[@scottf1000]

@@jlnxn5374 Marion is a awesome player and no doubt highly versatile, but still come on man. If you had to start a team from scratch who are you picking out of those two?

[@twyckoff87]

I just watched the 2005 Spurs/Pistons finals. In the 4th quarter of game 7, Ginobili is BY FAR the most important player on the floor. And its not surprising at all, because its Ginobili.

[@chrissullivan6572]

I loved Anderi Kirilenko's game

[@Seamalicous]

I could never get in to WoW but I respect your opinion

[@chrissullivan6572]

@@Seamalicous 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@dunadan1995]

The guy put up 5x5. How many players in NBA history could do that? At 22 he somehow led the 2003/04 Jazz to the winning record while having Arroyo as his second best player for most of the season. That team literally had an Arroyo-DeShawn Stevenson-AK-Jarron Collins-Greg Ostertag starting line-up. I mean, Sloan was a great coach - but this is insanity and a testament to how good AK-47 really was. Taking Szczerbiak over him is insulting tbh

[@chrissullivan6572]

@@dunadan1995 Imagine him playing yoday. With a lil work on his 3 point shot, he would be a very hot commodity.

[@waxl121]

Steve Francis' Houston years were insanely fun to watch. Mostly forgotten nowadays.

[@dbag3345]

KckDwn Smoking Craaaaaack 🚬🚬🚬

[@clutchcity25]

Coming from someone that grew up in Houston watching him and Cuttino together, fun was an understatement.

[@David-iv6je]

Totally fun but empty calories.

[@ElBrillante4]

Damn the LO disrespect is heavy in this one

[@fiftytysondaman4522]

Man smh

[@SpaceGhost-wx9sw]

From my knowledge he wasn't a problem really until he retired

[@TheIcemanthomas]

Daniel Warren he was always into drugs. It just intensified when he retired

[@razkable]

he was a beast in miami that one year...dude was the best player on a team that could of made the east finals

[@544CampStreet]

Yeah as much as I enjoyed the Stevie Franchise experience, Odom was an order of magnitude more relevant and Odom won a lot while Francis was a tank commander on the Knicks in what should've been his prime.

[@clipscaughtcold]

You’ll are crazy for taking Marion over ginobili

[@mrmacross]

Marion could do more for you, but Manu can do the most important skill: take over in a tight game.

[@juanroa2239]

@@mrmacross ginobili beat marion, lebron and tim duncan together in argetina ??? WTF

[@samismith8752]

Agree. If you look up his stats in games when either Duncan or Parker didn't play, he was putting up monster numbers. He's the only guy in this draft that could be the best player on a title winning team.

[@danortega748]

@@samismith8752 agree to that, manu has a better winning percentage individually against parker and Duncan.

[@mechajintsu]

Manu over Marion. The greater thing is putting them in the same team. Manu and Marion would’ve complemented each other beaaaaaautifully like a Jordan-Pippen combo.

[@hutsonizer7548]

Shawn Marion over Manu Ginobili is a terrible pick.

[@hutsonizer7548]

Shea Serrano...is that you?

[@Doknot-tb9ey]

No its not.

[@the_auditor1017]

Hitman Hutson The Matrix was way better!

[@TarekAx]

No its not. It depends on what your team needs, both players can't be your number 1 but they are great number 2. Manu has the better game offensively while Marion is better all around with his defence, repounding and steals.

[@leokizzo3515]

You clearly need to take a look at Marion’s stats and look at how effective he was all those years in Phoenix

[@jfb1188]

I have never seen house. I’ve heard him for years. He’s got the wrong face.

[@DB-cg4vs]

Lmmmfaoo

[@trumpetking11]

He’s prettier than you imagined, right?

[@ashwincheekala1566]

Ginobili had his own team he’s an perennial all star who can give u 20-25 5 and 5 plus 1.5-2 steals. I mean I saw a stat where over like a 6 year stretch amongst west all star guards where he was top 2 in per for every one of those 5-6 years or so while playing 6th man minutes behind Duncan and Parker. Plus he’s clutch af against a plethora of west titans. He is easily a top 10 shooting guard all time as is and one of the greatest intangibles ever while being pretty darn skilled and a very solid defender.

[@pointynobb5498]

Bill is saying about J Terry "If he's your 4th best guy you're good, if he's your 3rd best you can get by". He was the 2nd best player on finals teams (!!) and should've got FMVP in 2011! Most players perform worse in playoff/finals, he got way better. Should've gone way higher (they had him below Szerbiak lol).

[@razkable]

2nd best scorer in the playoffs on 2 finals team...2nd best player is debatable cause those teams had stackhouse howard and butler...having dirk whose a legit top 15 offensive player ever possibly closer to 11 than 14 really helps

[@paulpsycho78]

Says more about dirk then terry

[@joshido7352]

Ron Artest should’ve gone waaayyyy higher he can easily be better version of PJ tucker on a small ball team. And in his prime was able to Put the ball on the floor. If the palace brawl never happened would’ve been an mvp candidate that year

[@razkable]

Artest and the jet were both undervalued...

[@shorafarahani]

Man... this draft is so underrated! sure, not too many top dogs... but SOOO MANY good ass players, alot of them great pieces in championship winning teams.

[@bookaufman9643]

Two things that Bill Simmons has made me aware of in every one of these redraftables. Well every one that I've watched so far. Number one is that he got his league pass in 01 to watch the clippers. Number two is that every playoff series that involved the Celtics is one of the all-time greats, no matter if it is first round second round or finals. Obviously by finals I mean conference finals because they didn't make a lot of NBA finals in any of these periods that the redraftables are covering. I'm going to watch the rest of them and count how many times he mentions either of the above. Also the Celtics didn't make a lot of conference finals either.

[@CC-bw7im]

manu would've been a better player in Memphis probably wouldn't have won 4 rings but if you think about it right now ja would be a Vancouver grizzly because manu would've been the best player on that team for however long and he wouldn't be coming off the bench he would also probably change the culture around canadian basketball as well

[@AhnSeoulo]

If I were Toronto I would actually go Odom over Baron, and Biddy is my favorite player from that time. But he was a scorer who needed the ball in his hands. So you have T-Mac, Vince, and Baron all looking to get there shot. Odom was a point forward and would actually contribute to moving the ball around more.

[@raisinbigdaddykane9723]

No. Baron passed the ball plenty when he had good teamates

[@razkable]

T mac was super young not the t mac you know heck in summer 99 he was a 6th man who just started to get starter minutes and shots plus Odom didn't pop for a few years really...in 00-01 odom was seen as a bust and t mac a star

[@razkable]

You clearly didn't watch baron from 2000-2008....he was bouncy and fast and could shoot actually a lot like cp3

[@MaxWraith]

I feel like Kirilenko should be higher. His defensive value was off the charts in his prime, top 5 in steals and blocks while being a perimeter guy. He was also a decent offensive player, so not just a 1-dimensional player.

[@JD-jc8gp]

He should be third.

[@HCXWinchester]

That run to playoffs with plumbers on (should be 03 Jazz) unbelievable.

[@davidvillela7476]

Ginobili should be a lock number one, also Ron shuold be number eigth, having zurbiack ahead is terrible, but im loving The pod

[@mahmoudbibbyfofana]

David Villela facts

[@pinbarbecue1100]

Idk y'all didn't pick Ron Artest in the top 10 pick because his defense was impeccable and better with most of these guy on the board

[@bobbyburns1404]

This is an amazing series. Great idea. Watched from 96 and will watch until the conclusion. Thank you ringer and Bill!!

[@armin38822]

Honestly,Marion at number 1 is a bad pick. Marion was a good player,sometimes even flirted with great but when you are going number 1,and you don't have the guy yet,then you absolutly have to take a guy who can create the big shot. Manu,if you just look at his stats was not a superstar,but give him freedom,put him in a James Harden type of solution,let him control the team from the start of his career and you would get a 25 points per game player 5-6 asissts 5 rebounds etc. Dude was great. He showed it in the euroleague before NBA,he showed it at Olyimpis and every time his number was called with the Spurs. Manu is easly number 1 pick. Great teammate on top of that,you can put him as teh face of the franchize,role model,plays defense,hustles etc. He just had it. Eeasy choice. Also Artest that low ? But man,Marion number 1 pick ? Wtf is wrong with Simmons.

[@wally000world]

I thought they've forgotten Artest The correct order: 1 - Manu Ginobili (imagine if they gave him the freedom like Luka has) 2 - Shawn Marion 3 - Elton Brand 4 - Ron Artest 5 - Baron Davis 6 - Andrei Kirilenko 7 - Rip Hamilton 8 - Lamar Odom 9 - Steve Francis 10 - Jason Terry 11 - Andre Miller 12 - Wally Szcerbiak 13 - Corey Maggette 14 - James Posey 15 - Raja Bell

[@33_milly93]

Elton Brand is not ahead of RIP Ham, and artest