large and small bore clarinets:what are their major differences?

[@jerrykorten664]

Can't get enough! So good to understand these fundamental relationships between the mouthpiece/barrel and the instrument and find out where to work with the phyics rather than against it. Thank you Tom.

[@Cornodebassetto]

As someone that played on Boosey & Hawkes 1010 as a student and then the first 10 years professionally on the Peter Eaton Elite (1010 bore) I don’t understand much of what has been said in this video and have never found these issues. The 1010 bore was roughly 15.24 and cylindrical. If you paired a French bore mouthpiece with it the intonation would be rather wild especially in the throat. But have a mouthpiece with a matching bore then the instrument plays perfectly well in tune without the sharp right hand in the chalumeau register that was mentioned.

[@leonply]

Excellent video! I'm having so much fun with my new A and C Clarinets, with their gorgeous silver-plated keys. They look incredible, play in tune, and produce the most luscious tones. Please stay safe and healthy, especially with the temperatures. I'm not saying that it's been hot here in Portland OR, but two hobbits threw a ring into my back yard... Now I have to hope that you'll eventually begin to produce the Libértas in the new materials configuration!

[@billyboy647]

Libertas is progressing nicely.

[@victorpashkevich8801]

Only this week as an intermediate player going from 14.8 bored freer blowing instrument to the R13 and noticing the greater resistance.And was contemplating looking for a 15mm bore clarinet.you have convinced me to persist with the frustratingly smaller bore.

[@leonply]

Do you have to play the R13, when there are so many other fantastic clarinets on the market? Honestly, I have a collection of Leblanc LL Clarinets (B-flat, A, E-Flat, Basset Horn, etc) which I play frequently and with great pleasure, as well as the Ridenour Libértas B-flat, Lyríque 575 A Clarinet (silver-plated model) and Lyríque 570 C Clarinet (silver-plated model), ALL of which are fantastic in their tone, intonation, ease of playing and glorious sound production. I would much rather play an instrument which I am certain will produce stunning music, ON PITCH, without having to perform hundreds of gymnastic feats with my embouchure, rather than exhaust myself with an instrument which has inherent design flaws but somehow has captured the market with their advertising budget and big-name "sponsored" musicians.

[@victorpashkevich8801]

@@leonply I purchased it at a seriously bargain price.but always open to find as you say easier instruments.

[@avarmadillo]

Small bore clarinets do not have to have greater resistance. The real question for the player is not more or less resistance in the clarinet. A simple change of reeds will solve most of those problems. The REAL question is how even the clarinet is in response and how stable it is in pitch, color, and shape during dynamic changes.

[@victorpashkevich8801]

@@avarmadillo I struggle with altissimo on smaller reeds so was assuming freerer blowing with thicker reeds would balance out. Admitting my lack of experience..

[@billyboy647]

www.rclarinetproducts.com If you have questions about any of our clarinets or other products please don't hesitate to email or call. Email: [e-mail] Toll Free (for customers in America): 1-888-258-7845 Cell (international customers): 469-394-3245

[@davidsmart8594]

The mulitplicity of fingerings for the 3rd register is also available on large bore clarinets! It's just my opinion, but the marketing of the Buffet clarinet in the latter half of the last century is responsible for this change. It can't have helped much either that the largest manufacturer of large bore clarinets (Boosey and Hawkes), acquired the largest manufacturer of small bore clarinets (Buffet) and stopped making large bore clarinets. You don't really have a choice, either. The only companies I can think of off the top of my head that produce 14.85mm and 15.03mm bore clarinets are Selmer and Peter Eaton, respectively. I'd really like to try one of your clarinets. Are they for sale in the UK?

[@billyboy647]

David, We could absolutely arrange for you to trial any one or more of our clarinets. Feel free to email us anytime at [e-mail] Best regards, Tom

[@davidsmart8594]

@@billyboy647 Thank you William.

[@avarmadillo]

David, Yes, I agree. There are many and analogous fingering options in the third register of large bore clarinets. But largely they are not needed as extensively. Why? Because the larger bore produces 3rd register tones that are naturally better in tune than small bore clarinets using the standard fingerings you'll see in most beginner fingering charts. Large bore clarinets will even play many third register tones sharp. While the small bore clarinets have lower third register tones. So, why not use the large bore clarinets? Here are the reasons small bore clarinets are still better and advantageous, most especially in respect of tuning. 1. The multiplicity of alternate 3rd register fingerings enable small bore clarinets to play very well in tune in the third register. 2. Even if these alternative for small bore third register pitches did not exist (but they do) it is MUCH more important to have the low and middle registers well in tune with themselves, because those are the tones clarinetists play and are heard the most. 3. While small bore clarinets have that alternative for the third register, large bore clarinets have virtually no alternatives to counter the sharpness of the right hand low register tones as a result of the larger central cylinder. Now, clarinet tuning is adjusted three primary ways. a) an actual physical alteration of the bore or tone holes or pad height adjustments, b) the player making adjustments by voicing/embouchure or c) the player using various fingering and tone hole coverings and/or venting adjustments. Of these three possibilities, none of these three means is sufficient to correct the extreme detuning between certain of the right hand low register tone holes and their 12th corollaries in the clarion---the detuning commonly being 20 to 25 cents or more. Nor is any combination of the three able to produce well in tune lower right hand tones without unacceptably distorting the integrity of the clarinet's color, shape, clarity, and resonance. We understand some Jazz players (especially Dixieland players) persist in using larger bore clarinets. Why? BecauseJazz players can get away with making a wide range of changes in the color and shape of the tone for a whole variety of technical and artistic reasons. Classical clarinet playing, on the other hand, has a much narrower ranges of acceptable variability in tonal shape and color than does jazz playing. The differences in acceptable variability in these divergent styles just come with the territory. One must simply accept each one's premises or go do something else. The premises themselves are the style's very definition, and are not going to change or adapt to you anytime soon...or.....EVER! The clarinet's acoustics are very unforgiving and comparatively inflexible in respect to how much one can vary the color and shape in an attempt to correct detuning issues. Instruments like the flute. oboe and bassoon are more flexible in respect to how much their tunings can be adjusted, higher or lower, than the clarinet. It's the nature of the critter. Live with it or opt for a career in insurance or being a rodeo clown---or both, and collect on the injuries you get as a result of your own folly. Again, it's perfectly clear that the MASSIVE switch to small bore clarinets in the mid-20th century was not some sort of temporary stylistic fad. The switch was neither caused by nor did it depend upon changes in the subjective taste or preference of some. Rather, the changes were based on the greater ease the small bore clarinet provided in respect to playing the clarinet better in tune in general as well as with itself. What remained after the small bore revolution was to make the clarinet more even in response, the correction of a few remaining detuning issues, and improved stability of pitch, color, and shape of the tone in dynamic changes. I think my own clarinet designs have made significant headway in positively addressing these other, remaining concerns. But the verification of that must come from those who are openminded enough to question their own priors, and actually give my clarinets a fair test.

[@davidsmart8594]

@@avarmadillo Well, William, we'll just have to "agree to disagree". As a clarinet maker and clarinettist, I can promise you that I can make a change to the bore of the instrument (specifically, the barrel), which will render the intonation of the instrument (large or small bore) quite even (*quite, because no instrument is 'completely even') in intonation, sound texture and response throughout the range; 1st, 2nd and 3rd registers. I don't profess to be the inventor of this modification, but it does exist and existed in the past. (I'm obviously not going to address this issue in detail here in public, but I would love to discuss it with you in private). Jack Brymer, after all, was quite a demanding musician...and played on a large bore instrument. To the public reading this: I have never inspected or played one of William's clarinets and so I cannot comment on them directly...I cannot therefore be accused of trying to 'rubbish' or otherwise indicate that his clarinets are wanting in any way, shape or form. The conversation we are having is truly the reserve of instrument makers and a few excellent musicians. It is a subject understood in this amount of detail by only a relative handful of people throughout the world. With that said, I am sure William's clarinets are of excellent quality and would satisfy the exigences of almost any musician. I would urge anyone to try his instruments: He wouldn't be on here presenting them to you if they weren't among those of the highest standard possible.

[@avarmadillo]

@@davidsmart8594 My experience does not comport with your position. I've NEVER played a large bore clarinet that did not produce sharp right hand low register tones, creating highly imperfect right hand 12ths. If you have a large bore clarinet (14.85-15:00mm) that produces true right hand 12ths. show it to me.

[@ottohardwick5323]

So if the vintage Conn 444N and 446N clarinets have a relatively large bore, why are they quite flat on the lowest notes, contrary to what you say?

[@avarmadillo]

They may be low on the low F and possibly the low E, but not on low G,A, Bb and B. There they'll be sharp.

[@desirehowland7737]

Remember to compare these tones with the 12th above not with a piano or other instruments playing unison with you in an ensemble.

[@adrianoesouza]

Hi, in my collection i have Selmer centered tone and conn 424n

[@leonply]

I'm currently restoring a Conn Full Boehm 424. Aren't they great?!!?

[@adrianoesouza]

@@leonply Great

[@super20dan]

now i know why my r13 is flat up top. its also my only small bore horn and i dont have this issue with any of my selmers and leblancs. i thought i had got a dud r13 as its an 1983 model and not from the golden age

[@zvonimirtosic6171]

Humans create not thanks to lack of difficulties, but in spite of difficulties. Playing 'more perfectly' in tune in a fraction of the octave is way overrated for an instrument that should imitate a lot more imperfect human voice (one of the goals for which the Bb and A clarinet was designed for). When they finally 'fixed the clarinet' in the mid-1950s, clarinet stopped being mainstay instrument on the new music stage. A coincidence? Not at all.

[@Trenton.D]

@@zvonimirtosic6171 this is just your opinion.

[@zvonimirtosic6171]

@@Trenton.D The 'advance' didn't help create amazing new music, but helped school kids (who will never touch any instrument in life) to play 'in perfect tune'. Wow, great. Everything about 'perfecting' minuscule details in our world somehow perverts into the insane consumerist approach and anxiety - people throw away literally hundreds of thousands excellently made and well-playable instruments to be able to 'play a few cents closer to tuner'.

[@zvonimirtosic6171]

I'm not sure that all the 'advances in design' helped create more interesting music at all, because when they finally 'fixed the clarinet' in the mid-1950s, clarinet stopped being mainstay instrument on the new music stage. So what was the gain then? The 'advance' didn't help create amazing new music, but: helped school kids (who will never touch any instrument in life) to play 'in tune'; increased more shopping anxiety; escalated the consumerist approach towards music - by throwing away of literally hundreds of thousands excellently made and well-playable instruments.

[@avarmadillo]

Zvonimir, instrument improvements do nothing to create "more interesting music." If they are real and practical improvements what they do provide greater ease and security for the player in performing the music that already exists.

[@ancushing1]

I just began the clarinet and I think I would really like it, but I am missing half of my left index finger and its difficult to reach the E hole and the A key and do the register key also. Besides looking into trying a different instrument, is there anything I can do to help me play? Thanks :)

[@jerrykorten664]

I'm squeamish about squamish.