BioShock - TWIST Explained Further | Why did Ryan Order Jack to use the Golf Club? (Lore Decrypted)

[@chase_h.01]

Ryan chose to die instead of having his death chosen for him. A man chooses. A slave obeys.

[@GevlekteWalruz]

Chase H. This is the reason

[@chaseblauvelt7008]

Corrct

[@DaGreatBrandonie]

Thank you for actually getting it. This was the entire point of this scene

[@GMS-ChaabarYakalATL]

Chase H. He could’ve just shot himself then, it’s deeper than that

[@dreimann]

@@GMS-ChaabarYakalATL - He could have chosen that method, but instead he chose another.

[@jayrobillard]

I think you make some good points, but I doubt Andrew Ryan wanted to be a father. The entire point of Rapture as a city was so man could enjoy the fruits of his labor without having to share them with anyone, and that the harder a man worked, the better caliber of rewards he deserved. This plays into Andrew Ryan's "extracurricular activities." Being the most powerful man in Rapture, Ryan would have undoubtedly been working crazy hours while dealing with all kinds of procedure issues, monitoring the safety of the citizens, and keeping the city's existence a secret from the surface world. As such, according to his own dogma, a man who works extraordinarily hard should get equally extraordinary rewards. So he begins affairs with Diane McClintock and Jasmine Jolene because, in his mind, he "deserves it." And we KNOW that these are truly affairs because Diane McClintock actually refers to herself as "Ryan's mistress" in the Audio Diary "Meeting Atlas." Not girlfriend, not fiancee, but mistress. This shows Andrew Ryan is already married and doesn't hold the idea of family in any particularly sacred standing. Otherwise, he could start a family with his wife whenever he wanted. And we know Ryan doesn't have any special regard for his mistresses, either. This is evidenced by the fact that he frequently stood Diane McClintock up on dates, eventually left her because her face never fully healed after the explosion at the Kashmir Restaurant, as well as how he MURDERED Jasmine Jolene. I think the act of Ryan asking Jack to bludgeon him to death with the golf club is more symbolic. At this point in the game, Jack has an arsenal of weapons on him, along with plenty of Plasmids that could easily do the job. So why does Ryan ask to be beaten to death with the club? Because of Jasmine Jolene. Up until then, Ryan believed everything he did was for the good of the people. Eliminating the smuggling ring, taking over Fontaine Futuristics, all of it was done to keep Rapture up and running...except for the murder of Jasmine Jolene. Killing Jasmine didn't benefit anyone except himself. She and the baby were his own dirty little secret. Finally, there's the WAY Jasmine Jolene died. We know Ryan was the one to kill her because just before entering her bedroom, incarnations of Jasmine's ghost appear in the hallways of Eve's Garden and they refer to Ryan by name several times. And how was she killed? Bludgeoned to death by a lead pipe. It's debatable whether Ryan actually loved Jasmine, but he certainly cared about her enough to spend time with her. There's also the fact that you see posters of Jasmine everywhere billing her as "Andrew Ryan's Favorite Gal" and they weren't taken down. Perhaps Ryan, feeling guilty over the secret of brutally murdering his mistress, decided to let the punishment fit the crime. And so he let Jack, his own son and the child of the woman he killed, murder him in the same horrible way he did Jasmine.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Great points mate! Thank you :)

[@wisdomleader85]

"This shows Andrew Ryan is already married and doesn't hold the idea of family in any particularly sacred standing. Otherwise, he could start a family with his wife whenever he wanted. And we know Ryan doesn't have any special regard for his mistresses, either." I think you made a good point, but what I quoted would be the case if Andrew Ryan had children other than Jack, because if Ryan had other children, or never cared/wanted to be a father, he as an intelligent person and an idealist (given the fact that he didn't establish death penalty in Rapture until Fontaine's smuggling operations became out of control), wouldn't condone murdering someone with his own hands irrationally, especially since Jasmine wasn't his only lover, even though she might be the most intimate one. Psychologically, only when someone possesses something extremely rare and dearly, would that person take any action to protect it or avenge the theft after losing it. There is also no evidence to suggest that Jack was not Ryan's only child. Therefore I think Lone's theory is more probable to be the case.

[@colepeltier8472]

Just because A man can enjoy the fruits without being forced to share doesn’t mean he can’t share out of his own choosing. It was the ultimate sacrifice/atonement and he did it out of his own choosing.

[@rn5598]

This is the greatest bioshock comment.

[@RR-oo2wf]

Thanks Man , Good Points

[@donjefe409]

I love the fact that this game franchise is still being talked about, despite its age. Shows how much Bioshock was way ahead of its time. Yet, games that came out three years ago aren’t as relevant. Good video lone 👍

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thanks shade! Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@onlyacomentarynothingspeci2419]

And we might get two worthy entrys in the future that Carry on the spirirt, well let us hope atleast

[@Giganotti]

What if he actually tried to say "chill", but messed up and said 'kill"? What if he just wanted to have a friendly golf competition?

[@mr.tophat300]

Kill no I mean chill! Chill!!!!!!

[@SaintKuro]

Saying chill would most likely get himself hit with an ice plasmid

[@GMS-ChaabarYakalATL]

S.H. N. Lmao oh shit I can picture that happening

[@OneForMrsE]

I actually find this theory to be on point. To me Andrew was telling Atlas he wouldn't get the city because he knew what his son was made from. Andrew explains everything to Jack and orders him to murder him, so that Atlas doesn't have the final say and that Jack could possibly find some peace with himself if he survived.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thanks E :D

[@jacobechegoyen2351]

The voice acting is simply perfect and timeless. Music also 10/10 and the art style is timeless as well

[@ikkimakko]

My thoughts on the ending. Ryan must have heard somewhere that he did end up having a son but dismissed it. When he sees the assassin (mind-controlled slave), he realizes the truth that it is his son. He won't be able to kill him even though the truth is horrifying. So as a "man", Ryan will decide to be killed by his son rather than allow the "slave" being forced to kill his dad. Great work Lone!

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Love it Sharon! And thank you :)

[@Scout-164]

Well, he did indeed learn of it from Jasmine Jolene, and he recorded an audio diary found in BioShock 2 where he in a very angry but calm tone rants about what happened to his unborn son.

[@saekisadako2118]

@@Scout-164 also he tried to find jack according to photos in his office.

[@Atreus21]

Was Ryan's voice actor trying to mimic Orson Welles? He sounds a lot like him.

[@poorsonwelles]

I had the same thought, I'd bet that was his main inspiration, yeah. A young Welles in Citizen Kane and maybe a dash of The Third Man thrown in there too. The voice acting is great all around, but Armin Shimerman was particularly brilliant as Andrew Ryan.

[@nwojunkie]

Anyone else just now realize after all thse years that Andrew Ryan looks like Walt Disney?

[@colleagueriley8451]

Walt disney tried to make his own city too

[@Aivottaja]

It's intentional. At the end of his life, Disney was trying to establish his own city called EPCOT (Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow).

[@vespainculta1086]

The vengeance idea makes a lot of sense. The original purpose of this , was to mock the player. In a lot of video games, we are given and objective to peruse, and we do so without question. Wile thinking we are in control. I know of "let's plays" in which the player panicked, and even got angry. exclaiming "Is there any way I can stop this" I to felt the same way. I had an extreme hatred for Fontaine after finding out the truth, so I could only imagine how jack would have felt. It put a lot into perspective even for game developers. Since the original bioshock I notice there are a lot more choices in games that effect the narrative. Giving the player the option to choose, rather then simply obey the narrative.

[@symbiote3220]

The real reason as commentary: Ryan, in a last ditch effort after quickly finding out jack was his illegitimate son, tried the best way he knew how to break the mind control. Give jack the ultimatium of choosing to kill his father or not (which for anyone would be the later) by triggering the command to ironically painfully kill him so he could get through. Unfortunately the problem was that jack never seen ryan as a father, so the command still played out. It would still be by ryans hand that jack ended up kicking fontaines ass, and i always thought the way he shown his fatherly love through a mans reputation was pretty ingenious. The problem was he knew more about progressive industry than progressive parenthood. The Franchise is just that : a story of being a Just Parent, never giving up on your kids. He had faith in the ryan blood. He had faith in his son.

[@Deathbringersora]

I think he was trying to get Jack to kill him of his own freewill, which is why he didn't say "Would you kindly" when he said kill, but did so with everything else. He wanted Jack to "Choose" to kill, not "Obey" and kill which Andrew Ryan saw as a distinction.

[@TheCALLofDEAD]

I absolutely agree with you 100%. There was always a part of Andrew Ryan that loved his son Jack and wanted to break him free of his mind control.

[@braxinIV]

Someone else on KZbin (forgot who) mentioned that Ryan chose to die that way because wether Jack succumbed to the spell or managed to overcome it, Ryan would die with the knowledge of being “right”. If jack overcame it, Ryan would be shouting about the power of man to rise above all. But if jack kills him, he’ll fall back on the idea the he, as a “man” chose his own death, and a slave is only doing what he is told and is therefore lesser.

[@Scout-164]

I see Ryan as the kind of man who basically does have a heart, but he almost never shows it because of the events that he saw combined with how he focuses on his city a lot. Seeing his other side is like seeing the full moon, a very rare chance.

[@onlyacomentarynothingspeci2419]

So does Fontaine i think He generally in a twisted way saw Jack as his Son, but Jack got way to powerful and He fought to long to gain control to risk losing it all but i think it generally pains him to kill you

[@ember-brandt]

@@onlyacomentarynothingspeci2419 Nah, I see Fontaine as more of the narcissistic-type dad that tries to force his son to be whatever he wants hom to be. Ryan, I think, gets too attached to whatever he is deeply passionate about, and I suspect he did not have a son (that he knows about lol) because he already was too strongly attached to his city. Rapture was his baby, he was its father, and he loved it with absolutel every fiber of his being. With Rapture thriving, why would he bother caring about anything else? Watching Rapture die, why would he want to live? I think OP is right about Ryan.

[@Metrot]

Allright allright allright, Now listen up, the whole point i will argue in the "Man choses, Slave obeys" is that Andrew wanted to make sure that his very own son, his ONLY son would be a MAN. Refer to his opening monologue upon entering Rapture ((which even though it wasn't meant to be a father son like lecture to teach a son from a father's life learned it certainly can be seen as such looking back knowing what we know by the end of Bioshock. Just something i found interesting.)), he was putting key emphasis on what a man was entitled to, and that anyone under the dominion of either a religion or political entity whether that ecompasses a Communist ideal in one for all or rather a Democratic/Capitalist ideal wherein no matter what a man has done within his own ingenuity and perseverance that man is truthfully nothing more than a slave as he must give up the fruits of his own prowess to the government or the commune by forms of taxes and tithes and as such he does not choose he OBEYED like a slave. So with this in mind we know that it's what Andrews philosophy it all focused on, and he wants his son to be such a MAN WHO CHOOSES so by giving him "tough love" and a hard lesson he wanted him to strive and break free of his mental conditioning and no longer be a slave obeying a kindly master "Would you kindly?" And instead be a MAN who CHOSE to fight on and pursue Frank Fontaine for whatever reason he has (( I personally believe its for a family that was sabotaged from the start, and that at the point of his revelation that Jack is his son was a much greater insult than even any hostilities to usurp Andrew's own city of Rapture)) and choose what to do after with the knowledge know good or evil as long as his own son was a MAN by his standards and as he would have raised him to be.

[@LungsOutJem]

None of y'all are right. The key to all of this is when Ryan specifically says to Jack, "I know I cannot raise my hand against you." With Ryan clearly being able to control Jack, able to make Jack kill himself or Atlas at any time, this phrase makes no sense, unless... This was all a setup for the story that later became Bioshock Infinite. Andrew Ryan believed that Jack was his own younger self, that doing anything to stop Jack's destiny would unmake everything, and so his only option was to let the cycle play out, knowing that Jack would travel back and become Andrew Ryan, somehow, and create Rapture again.

[@papaofthejohns5882]

J. C. What? But Fontaine and Tenenbaum literally created Jack, the canon ending is him dying surrounded by the Little Sisters. Ryan grew up during the fall of the Russian Empire.

[@thehedgehogsdilemma9478]

In other words it would seem that Andrew Ryan was a better Chessmaster then Fontaine after all. Andrew Ryan ensured that even in death he would have the last laugh on Fontaine because after all as he blatantly put it “Atlas! You can kill me! BUT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE MY CITY!!!!” And just as he predicted, even in death, Ryan was proven right and in his last moments of life I have a sneaking suspicion that he knew his son would somehow someway succeed in defeating his hated nemesis who destroyed his dream of a better world. The ultimate posthumous checkmate. This puts a whole new perspective on Ryan’s death and changes it from tragic to triumphant.

[@david93829]

This channel has been so good lately another great video Lone

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Smiled when I read this. Thank you anarchy :)

[@ryanwatson4087]

I know I’m a year late on this video and I do see what you’re saying and it is a good theory but I personally feel like the whole a man chooses, a slave obeys part is almost like a game of Simon says. I say that because at first Ryan uses the phrase “would you kindly” but then stops and Jack still listens without the phrase. Ryan says “kill” not “would you kindly kill” which is why I think Ryan repeats a man chooses, a slave obeys almost hinting that Jack is doing this action out of his own “free will”. Just my 2 cents.

[@BojackTrunks]

Best Dad ever!

[@donjefe409]

Jack Ryan saw you on TheBioshockHub’s channel as well. Your dad’s awesome btw.

[@Scout-164]

Your dad is awesome, Mr. Ryan.

[@rebelsoldier2352]

I see you like asmr

[@williamaftondavemiller346]

I like your theory of Ryan wanting to be a father but I have something to add to it. Ryan was going to die some day and he didn't have anyone to run Rapture after his death. So when he found out that Jazmine have sold his unborn child to his enemy she robbed him of not only his child but also his successor. He would want his biological child to take his place after he died. Someone to keep his city, his dream, his beliefs, his Legacy alive after he dies.

[@zackugan]

I’m really happy that my tweet was in the video, and I loved the discussion and would love more videos like this

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thank you for the tweet mate :D

[@LadyBern]

I can't see him being so sympathetic. I do imagine that he felt if he ever had a son his son would make him proud and be just like him before taking over rapture. Though with Ryan's philosophy rapture should have gone to Fontaine/Atlas but no, he didn't want the fruits of his labor going to Fontaine and probably was planning on destroying rapture to make sure he never got it. But then he sees he actually has the son...no not a son he has a legacy that could take over for him. But there's a problem: his legacy was nothing more than a tool being used by his greatest rival. His only legacy was worse than the parasites he despised, his son was a slave mindlessly obeying the will of another man. He shows him the chains that makes him a slave, he shows him that he is a man by choosing to die on his terms not Fontaine's. He keeps his generic key on him symbolizing him passing on his genetics, his will, and the control of the fate of rapture onto Jack leading him onto the path of being a man, not a slave. It makes me wonder could Jack have saved rapture or was it too far gone thanks to Adam?

[@spookyfool]

I want to start my point with this, even with all the audio logs and hints Ryan makes towards Jack being his son, Jack at least still think his parents are farmers in the US and sees Ryan as this cold blooded killer. Ryan at first was thinking Jack was this hitman or right hand man to Atlas. When he begins to think about who Jack is he sees it's been what he researched from Suchong cause Ryan knew. Ryan knew his greatest disappointment is that he never had that chance with his son and share the Utopia that is Rapture and he attempted to have Jack killed on numerous occasions. In the end Ryan wanted Jack to be free not knowing if his efforts helped or not.

[@tobiasjonsson6415]

Ryan didin’t want to clean his room

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Haha exactly!!

[@samuel10125]

Honestly this is Bioshock I think it was made to make the player think while there probably is a definitive answer to everything to the player it's countless meanings and that's the point and what make the Bioshock series so good infinite still hurts my head.

[@dreamshooter90]

He made that put dispute everything shaking. Nice.

[@papadacker6835]

cant Andrew Ryan just respawn at a vitachamber

[@pissy4476]

I know that this was two years ago but he deactivated his vita chamber, and when you go into his office you can activate it.

[@BojackTrunks]

Btw it's nice to see you Lone making a Bioshock related video again.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

So glad mate! They'll keep on coming :)

[@jaredweaver5122]

Gotta say that was quite “the Dad talk” Andrew gave to Jack, hahaha

[@MusicLoverICI55]

so if andrew ryan wanted a family, what about diane mcclintock? they were both dating at the time way before jasmine jolie got into the picture. and since dan was left atrium on new year's eve party it shows that ryan is not really a man of relationships. so in my opinion i find it hard to believe the andrew ryan would really be a family man or my love committee relationships.

[@jonathanvalencia5395]

This video reminded me of the BioShock book and what Ryan was like before the fall of Rapture.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Still need to finish that book!

[@charger8624]

would you kindly exit the video if you haven't played the game?

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Ha!

[@virgilio6349]

Ryan realised he was in a game and there was nothing he could do to stop the player so instead of letting us decide to kill him or spare him, he got himself killed by us in a non skippable cutscene as a last act of defiance. What a man.

[@Snikmus]

very good points. Keep up the good work.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Really appreciate it Rasmus :) Thanks for watching!!

[@boriskameltovic8846]

I see Lone do a Bioshock video, i press ilke :)

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thank you so much Boris :)

[@skxlter5747]

You also failed to mention how frank Fontaine is the literal embodiment of Andrew Ryan's philosophy of rapture

[@katiemartin487]

Hi lone, I just wanted to say that I’m a huge bioshock fan and I watched some of your videos on the first game and they really helped me clear up the story by the way, I like those Bioshock pop figures you have in the background, I have booker, Elizabeth and the little sister, very cool.😎😎😎

[@blackdemonknight]

I might actually do a What if? theory on what if that moment when Andrew does order you to kill, what if like with the Little Sisters you were given two options Obay or Disobay (obay will be obviously be how that moment is but Disobay would be the main focus)

[@gamertoic1018]

A man chooses a slave obeys. From this ideological view point, Andrew Ryan saw his son to be a slave and let Jack complete his task. Once Jack's job is done he is no longer a slave.

[@la_void9750]

Would you kindly, powerful phrase.

[@Ryusui]

I always felt there was an element of Ryan begging Jack to break the control. Repeating the phrase to try and get Jack to choose not to kill him rather than obeying the mind control. Now, I definitely didn't get every scrap of evidence that you could find while playing the game, so maybe it's illustrated that such an override due to strength of will is impossible, but I always thought Ryan was hoping his own son could feel what he felt upon seeing Jack, and not be able to follow the order. Maybe that is 1000% too sentimental for Ryan, but the fact that he can't raise his hand against a son he didn't know he had that's been sent to kill him tells me that there is some sentimentality in him.

[@hardcash2192]

"There is always a man, a lighthouse, and a mark or tattoo"

[@smileyscollectiblesandgame2989]

That one dislike is atlas

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Haha always!

[@liamthurston7679]

*15 dislikes* "YoU tHink Im aLOnE iN tHIs wORLd?"

[@dead_fox]

I completely agree with you, I never actually asked myself why he did that, but now that I think about it what you say seems the most accurate explanation. (PS. Love your accent! ) [for some reason lol]

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Hehe thank you!

[@isaacschmitt4803]

He wanted a father-son moment. . . by teaching him how to play golf. For some reason, people always ran off the green whenever Jack tried playing golf again. . .

[@omiorahman6283]

Jack loves last of us style of golfing

[@littleguyfornuts6457]

Nice video lone, really enjoying these new videos you're making

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thank you fornuts! Glad you're enjoying the lore videos :)

[@lonelywanderer1114]

Wait, why did he have a golfclub at all, did he somehow build a golf course?!??!

[@SteveVi0lence]

WOULD YOU KINDLY REFERENCE THE OPENING SCENE REGARDING is a man NOT entitled to the sweat of his brow? aka his ball juice????

[@ShaddySoldier]

What

[@colleena2818]

I have been putting off watching this video until I got to this point in Bioshock. (Which, by the way, I have completely fallen in love with! This game is AMAZING!) I FINALLY played through it yesterday and came straight here cuz I’m dying to know!!! Awesome video as usual Lone!

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Again, thank you :D

[@mumbo2526]

Amazing interpretation! Well done!!!

[@Snipfragueur]

I am not satisfied by this explication. So I'm assuming that he does not know that the agent of Atlas is his own son, until this moment with saying "Now that I see you", because if that's not the case then he could have just spammed the "Would you kindly" magic words throughout the story and more or less take control of Atlas' pawn. So when he realized that, why did he activate the whole destruction procedure, knowing it's going to be stopped mere seconds later ? Does he want part of Rapture to be destroyed because it would hurt Fontaine, BUT at the same time do not want to kill his own son in the process, and so he just hope that killing him will let Jack enough time to stop the whole thing ? Does he hope that by ordering Jack to kill his own father, he will regain his free will or something ? But if that does not work, and it does not, Rapture will fall under the hands of Fontaine… It is only Tennenbaum intervention that prevent this from happening. Was it Rayan that called Tennenbaum ? If that's what he did then Rayan could have just summoned Jack to his office, knock him out with the help of the magic words, and then have Tennenbaum examine him. That way Fontaine gains NOTHING and lose his last tool to conquer Rapture.

[@kishinasura1504]

Is there any word from Ken Levine regarding this question?

[@robotgopher7739]

I remember getting here on my first time playing and when you get to Ryan he makes you kill him on my first time playing it shocked me no pun intended.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

I noticed the pun ;)

[@WhispersOfWind]

but who's Atlas than (aka Frank Fontaine) and why did he have such a grudge against Andrew Ryan? It's surely not just because of the poor living conditions in Rapture (I don't believe Frank or Atlas is that kind of guy).

[@romeislove]

For me Ryan was seeing how much he was controlled by atlas by saying would you kindly

[@enclavesoldier8893]

It was for him to show Jack that he was a slave he listened to Atlas no matter what saying that Jack was a slave I feel that he had no hope so he proved the point of Jack being a slave with his life because his life didn't matter any more

[@fecomate2542]

I think you and many others in the comments have missed one key point. Yes he wanted revenge but he would have achieved that by locking Jack out until Rapture blows up. Maybe he wanted to die by CHOOSING to die but again the bomb was started by him. Maybe he wanted to be punished for murdering his mistress but again the bomb would be a lot more painful Than the golf club. So why did he let Jack in? What was the only thing that he couldnt achieve with the bomb? What was the only thing that he could have lost at that point? HIS IDEOLOGY! He did everything for his ideology, he built Rapture because of that. If he blows it up his ideology would be lost maybe forever, but if he teaches it his ideology would outlive him. To further prove my point he said my biggest dissapointment when referring to his son. Why? What do most fathers want to do? They want to teach their sons and pass them the torch, and thats exactly what he did. Jack became a Man and choose to leave/control Rapture. He immirtalized his ideology. He lived by it. A Man chooses. A slave obeys.

[@18wolfspirit]

How did Frank Fontaine know Jack wouldn't die after hijacking the plane due to the trigger phrase?

[@DraculaBride1]

I love your Andrew Ryan/Jack Theories video. And I do love your theory, on Andrew Ryan could have broke the "Would You Kindly" Spell Control Word on Jack, and wanted to be a real family with him. I really think Andrew truly cared about Jack in his last moment with his son. And you can hear the pain in Andrew's voice, when he dies. Andrew was that very upset that Jack was a slave to Altas and he was trying very hard to save his son, to break the trigger word on Jack in his dying moment, maybe. But sadly, Andrew failed on breaking the WYK Phase on Jack and Tenenbaum had to take over that for Ryan. I really wish they didn't kill Andrew Ryan in the first game. He was too damn good of written character to kill off, in my opinion. I also think Andrew Ryan had so much fear of someone he didn't know too well, taking over Rapture, because he didn't want Altas/Fontaine or anyone to take over his city, but himself. Andrew was so overprotected of his city. But if Andrew Ryan would have live in the first game, I think he would let Jack take over Rapture, since he is his son, if Andrew didn't die by Jack and just died of old age. I felt sorry for Andrew Ryan when he died. Andrew didn't want his son to be slave of his enemy and he wanted Rapture to come alive again. At least Andrew did the caring right thing of letting Jack know, the truth about his birth, the WYK Phase, and a difference between a man and a slave, before he died brutally. It just shows how much Andrew cared about Jack at his dying moment. Very sad for Andrew Ryan.

[@Daud-ix4tm]

I think despite Andrew being a complete monster he had some conflict like Vader I know it's different but when he realizes that Jack is his boy and that's been raised as a slave to the man he hates the most. He wanted his boy to realize that he's been a slave and for him to even recognize it was him murdering his own father by the same words by Atlas "would you kindly?". I see the similarities because when Darth realized he had a son a conflict within him began. By their sons are saved Darth killing Palps and Andrew sacrificing himself so Jack can see he's been a slave and try to break it. I feel like my thoughts are dumb but hey I tried

[@simag3246]

I think Ryan has a hope that Jack came back and don't kill Ryan so that he is not a slave

[@WireMotherr]

What would’ve happened if jasmine, Ryan and jack lived as a happy family?

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Very good question! Perhaps Fontaine would have ultimately failed?

[@rayvenshade1823]

Probably, but the whole city would still be a dystopian hellhole.

[@jorinton]

I agree with this. Good video, tho I totally didn't expect this :)

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thanks so much for watching Jorinton :)

[@aminebenz1411]

Ryan knew he was done, and would die one way or another, so he wanted to CHOOSE his own death rather than being forced.

[@onlyacomentarynothingspeci2419]

My theory is He wanted to choose his Tool of demise He wanted to take away every Choice Jack had He wanted full control over his end

[@gaunterodimmmastermirrors72]

My opinion of his death and the way it was was to actually prove a point. Ryan, a man of pride and strong holder of his own belief of man, saw his son, his one and only, be a slave to the very man he fought against. "A man chooses, a slave obeys." Ryan himself seemed distant emotional, even if he realized Jack was his son in the end. I think he actually cared in his own way and proved to Jack that he himself was a slave to Fountaine's control, thus his death seemed to be the only way to prove it. Though this is just my opinion of the entire scene between the two.

[@hmstack6049]

He wanted Jack to finally "be born" and therefore forced breaking Would You Kindly with this

[@RustyShacklefardd]

Maybe he was trying to show Jack, his legacy that he had a choice. Blow up the city, or continue to be a pawn

[@MiyuSawai]

Did Andrew Ryan know that Atlas was REALLY Frank Fontaine?

[@ziad1578]

I guess the reason is that Andrew knew he is dead anyways but he wanted to show jack that he being controlled. And this information is new to Andrew too because at the beginning of the game he did not know who is jack,he was wondering if he was kjb or cia. Besides what about the office that has the pictures of all the main characters in the plot with the word would u kindly ? Whom office is that ? Who was working to know about the "would you kindly" command? I guess it was Andrew and it was happening during the game that he solved the puzzle and knew that jack is his son and that he was controlled by Atlas.and also i don't see any reason for his fatherhood to wake up in the last moment. It is was only to show that jack was controlled

[@nickmattio3397]

I need some delicious 97%THC vigors ASAP

[@Wintermute01001]

Ryan didn't just want to show Jack he was a slave. He wanted Jack to realize he was a slave so that he could start to fight back.

[@alexmercer5414]

Yeah because at the end of the day he was still his son.

[@brianogilby7220]

Great points! Agreed!

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thanks Brian!

[@Lordchickie]

Andrew wanted to make jack clear that he is just a tool. And by that he makes jack clear that he has always been controlled. After that jack turns against atlas/fountain and in the end kills him. He knew that jack was the only one to stop Fontaine, by ending his life like that he made clear what was going on to kill Fontaine. He hoped that he would kill Fontaine and rule over rapture, a man that came from Ryan’s blood, a man that thinks like him.

[@akurkyojin4664]

He thought that he could break Jacks state by just talking the truth to him and he failed, theres two times in Bioshock where you are told that Ryan talks nice but Fontaine had the Adam...

[@retrobat153]

I feel like he ordered jack to kill him thinking that jack would think differently and not kill him after finding out atlas pretty much lied to him

[@the_gratefulgamer]

It's a good theory. Andrew Ryan maybe was betting on one truly significant revelation and traumatic experience. Might actually override years of being under someone else's control.

[@FalloutZone]

That was on point 👌🏼

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Thank you Bruce!!!

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

He wanted Jack to improve his swing.

[@mr.tophat300]

One of the best games I ever played

[@cataclysmunknown7110]

A season for all things says it all.

[@dossiebigham2280]

Makers sense from everything I've seen

[@MiyuSawai]

Suggestion: Bioshock 2, Bishock 2: Minerva's Den, Bioshock Infinite, & Bioshock Infinite: Burial at Sea Episoes 1& 2 (The Definitive Story)

[@kledder318]

Ryan reminds me of Adolf Hitler. They both wanted to build an empire the world would not understand and allow to exist and they both, sort off, killed themselves after admitting their defeat. Hitler tried on land but failed, so Ryan build Rapture at the only place Rapture could exist. Under water. Is it a coincidence that Ryan has lived through the events of WWII? I think there's more reason that Bioshock takes place in 1960 rather than just the dandy graphic style. I actually agree with your third point, the family. Ryan's greatest achievement, the city of Rapture, had failed. Even though he calls Jack his greatest dissapointment, ironically enough, he's his only chance of having a legacy at all. Either that or that Jack would one day would take over and he be the one that controls Rapture. He must've thought two thoughts ahead and ask himself what Jack would/could do after the civil war. That would cover both endings. Still, I don't think there's any evidence of this but the first two reasons seem valid.

[@wh00tevr80]

/vision/ turned out to be /the proper poison/ to exterminate the roach..?

[@PSFinn]

Apologies if I'm being super ignorant here, but Ryan was not using "Would you kindly" when giving him most of the orders.. including "kill". Was Ryan not allowing Jack to kill him by his own choice? I know that is weird, but Ryan told Jack to kill him, but didn't command him with the command phrase, allowing Jack to have the freedom of choice - and yet Jack still chose to "obey", and maybe Ryan was disappointed with this as Jack was still choosing to be a slave? Again sorry if I've missed something obvious here! It's been a while since I've played the game🤣

[@juliosilva857]

The man: jack The slave: Ryan

[@Adventures_in_Moto]

Bravo tango 7274 is in the background

[@julianof.9736]

1- Could it be that ryan ordered jack to kill him because fontaine already did and he can't revert the spell of would you kindly? 2- Love this series. Are you going to do a video about the lore of bioshock 2?

[@jorinton]

Juliano De Santanna Filho I asked too he said he is now focusing on fallout and boderlands.

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

That's another possibility! And eventually I do want to do a definitive story for Bioshock 2 :)

[@theroguerider]

Sorry I’m so late with this comment, but I genuinely think they (the devs) thought it would make for a cool scene and didn’t think much beyond that. This sequence changes nothing in the game as he still finds out he was under the control of Fontaine and that even further on that he had the ability to stop his heart. If anything, I saw it as a shot at Jack’s libido of being a man or a slave as no one wants to think of themself as a slave to anyone. Challenge his mental fortitude, and oops, I guess I was wrong and now I’m dead with a golf club notch in my skull. Ryan is a true bozo if after he made him turn, walk, stop etc, seeing how deep his brainwashing went and still thought Jack would stop. The issue is, since Ryan knew about the code phrase, when did he know it? When he knew his son was back in Rapture why didn’t he continually use the phrase against Atlas? Could they just keep asking jack to “would you kindly” kill the other guy? I do love this game and the series, but when held up to the light, or under a microscope, the game shows how it took a very “someone else will figure it out” approach. The best I can think, and it’s the same as one of the people you quoted, is that he wanted to die as his dream was dead and who better to end it for him that his estranged son brainwashed to kill him. Not great, but.... someone else will figure it out.

[@mdrivera8481]

I think he wanted a heir for Rapture and that's it.

[@jimblackford6620]

I think Andrew Ryan wanted Jack to fight the mind control. He wanted Jack to prove he was a man, not a slave.

[@ManserXD-0]

A good question, why did atlus not ordered jack to just eat the slugs and not save the little sister? It's the only choice atlus gave jack, not knowing that this would lead to his downfall.

[@MiyuSawai]

But why was Jack was ordered to kill his father, Andrew Ryan, with THE GOLF CLUB?

[@deesanchez8826]

Maybe he wants jack TO LET'RE RIP

[@jorinton]

I DIDNT GET NOTIFICATION ! KZbin ! GODDAMN IT WHERE IS MY GOLF CLUB ?

[@LoneVaultWanderer]

Nooo :(

[@SmileyandFrowney]

Ryan didn’t love Jasmine or his son. Jasmine was his mistress, and he got pissed when she fucked him over by giving his biggest rival an advantage over him.

[@emanc4775]

If a slave kills his master then he is free, that why he ordered him to kill.