Bishop Barron on Sex, Love, and God

[@happyguy5165]

Fr Barron you are an absolute legend!! Sorry to be so informal it had to be said though. You are such a strong and true follower of God and preach the Gospel and the Holy Bible's message as a whole in an incredible manner and thank you so much because you have helped me more than you could have imagined. God bless from your brother in Christ ☺️

[@BishopBarron]

Well, that made my day! Thanks.

[@Missninety4]

I am so blessed to listen and learn your brilliant teachings about God and morality it helped me to raise my children well thank you

[@josephgraitizitto8127]

just keep an eye on your kids around those Catholic priests. I think its better to teach my kids to be kind to others and to love rather then run the risk of having my kids get molested at Sunday school. These priests believe they have some divine right to harm children and I believe the Vatican dose as well for they seem let it happen and cover up for their child molesting brothers when it dose. So this guy can talk and preach all he wants but when I see his dirty collar all I think is "child molester"

[@epicman004]

Joseph Graitizitto Many public school teachers have also molested their students. Does that mean we should all homeschool our kids? No one is excusing the terrible scandal that has plagued the Church and those in the Church who covered it up were totally wrong. A vast majority of priests have never harmed children and they are servants of the Church, those that sin and do not repent will be judged by God but it does not discount the beauty and wonder of the Church.

[@iamladytiomojola3052]

@@josephgraitizitto8127 in the 12 selected by Christ Himself, there is Judas, does that nullify the essence og discipleship and their upholding the teaching of Christ after Christ? If stuffs like you claim ain't expected, Christ won't say He hopes to meet the church with a stone over another when He returns...

[@JesusPedroza]

"A fully realized contextualization of sex which is seen as good in itself, that's the Church's views." Fr. Barron always excellently articulates explanations in such an incredible way that's easy to understand.

[@chuimataisinglai8235]

I am Protestant Baptist Christian.. I love Bishop barron and word on fire, I learn lot of things both catholic and contemporary culture under same God..

[@oleester]

Your definition of sexuality is so wholesome and logical. I love it. I love my Catholic religion. I love Christ Jesus.

[@missy567ful]

Every young person should listen to Bishop Barron on this subject.

[@purejoymlovednsaved]

Catholicism for me ,is not a religion but a way to live a great life with peace in your heart, your family, your work, your community. Father Barron helped me realize that. I used to be very rude to whoever started religion on me. Thank you father for great work. God bless you.

[@bishopsheen1985]

God bless you, Father Barron! Your videos helped lead one of my good friends to become a catholic, and he calls you the Bishop Fulton Sheen of the 21st Century. I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for all you are doing through the wordonfire ministry.

[@Seraphicallia]

This makes me want to cry it is so beautifully explained. Thank you Bishop Barron!!!

[@mobilegamers8009]

The Catholic Church has been defending what it means to be human for 2000 years and today is no exception. Good is not subjective to human morals, but rather is a force in itself, and that is God. He as the very essence of love never changes, and sex is no exception.

[@no_prisoners6474]

Mobile Gamers what are you saying?

[@TheAaronChand]

Two thousand years is relatively young compared to Hinduism which is my religion. Krishna came to Earth long before Christianity existed or Jesues existed in the year 3229 BCE 126 years before Jesus was born. Lord Ram was January 8 one thousand fourteen hundred years ago how can Catholics or Christians claim it as truth.

[@BishopBarron]

God bless you! Please keep me in prayer, brother.

[@WadeWojcik]

I've been studying your work for quite some time, Father. And I must say you have one of the most well spoken and insightful commentaries on the Internet. Even as a non-religious man, I still greatly appreciate your theology and your calm and collected rebuke to the childish remarks you recieve from others on this site. Your kindness and tremendous candor ought to be the envy of your peers.

[@5h221stzo]

thank you lord for fr barron comments i have found his teachings of the faith true insparation and helps to have the grace of gods wisdom is good

[@DarrinFrench]

As always, excellent talk Fr Barron. May God Bless you and your work!

[@_-ANNE-_]

Fr. Barron, thank you for your intelligent explanations of the Church's teaching! You are a treasure to God's flock! God bless you!

[@737tech]

I'm glad you talk about these issues. I wish the church would. The church never talks about family issues. So many broken families and never a word on the family in church...

[@BishopBarron]

I get what you're saying. The Church fully understands the difficulties of living one's sexual life with total integrity. But our job is calling people to radical holiness, because Jesus said, "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

[@JohnRoberts88]

You want a definition of winning? Father Barron using the word "sexy" in an intellectual commentary. Loved it, thank you for some great thoughts on the matter.

[@molom5027]

KEEP IT UP FATHER. THE CATHOLICS HAVE A LOT TO SHARE BUT VERY LITTLE IS SEEN ON NENWORKS.

[@BishopBarron]

Terrific. Thanks.

[@mrhe832]

Another splendid commentary from a splendid servant of God.

[@joezilla07]

Excellent commentary, Father! The word "contextualization" is really helpful in articulating the Church's teaching on sexuality. God willing, I'll be teaching high school religion next year, and this may prove quite helpful in formulating and expressing ideas properly on this matter. Honestly, it's also quite personally helpful to hear the teaching expressed in such a clear and inspiring manner. Thanks for all you do.

[@solomonulloa8051]

Thank you for the videos father. I am a born again Christian. Tho learning from Catholics seems to be frowned upon by most of my evangelical brothers and sisters, i steal feel led to watch these videos and learn from them. lol Yes people, there are protestants who see Catholics as are brethren.=) we actually do exist :,). God bless you "+"'

[@CoryTheRaven]

The definition of family and the variety of forms of families are very intertwined questions. Admitting that there are different forms of families is an admission that the concept of "family" is very fluid and culturally relative.

[@insidetrip101]

You got me there. The Enlightenment was virtually nothing bot propaganda. Want to know where these things were valued in harmony? In Scholastic and Ancient thought--well not in all thinkers equally but I think I can safely admit that nearly everything I say right now is tongue-in-cheek with a nostalgia for times of plague and famine.

[@CarcharodonMeg]

I admire the confidence of a person who can hold a newspaper or history text in hand and still believe that human beings are "naturally good."

[@resurrectingand]

😂😂😂

[@FaithandReason101]

i am glad to see you recognize my point. people act on their inclinations, as your last sentence shows. this doesn't mean they should, or that those actions are ordered to their human construct appropriately.

[@BishopBarron]

God bless you, Wade.

[@RShaun]

Discovered your videos while searching for the Catholicism series. In Episode 3 you perfectly articulate the ways I felt about some things and I wanted to see more of the videos but I am limited by income and they aren't available through my local library. I am not a Christian but I truly appreciate your presentations and how you attribute sources to make research possible. Thank you!

[@haustrmpt92]

It doesn't sound much like there's an opening to discussion, so I will end with this. St. Irenaeus said "the glory of God is man fully alive." Fr. Barron (who has a doctorate in theology) and any priest, bishop, nun, monk, single person, or married person truly dedicated to living their vocation in serving God is interested in that becoming a reality. I was just trying to highlight that Fr. Barron, because he's a priest, is dedicated to willing the good of the other in his vocation.

[@BishopBarron]

I have no quarrel with saying that the two are in a mutually conditioning relationship.

[@insidetrip101]

You're missing the point. All I was saying was that the Church does not absolutely think that you have to have children for the purpose of sex. The Church has never held a position that you can't have sex, and they have determined that you can choose to only have sex when the woman is least fertile. The only reason to do this would be to reduce the chance of pregnancy. This is "natural family planning," and it is Church condoned contraception, since contraception is simply aiming not to conceive

[@CoryTheRaven]

The approval of the rhythm method only demonstrates how arbitrary the prohibition on contraception actually is. There are all sorts of sociological reasons why the Catholic Church disapproves of contraception, very few of which could be considered complimentary to the church. The issue here is that it is placing an artifical stumbling block before those who may feel called to marriage but not to parenthood. It's an abstract rule attempting to override people's lived reality.

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

Point The APA has stated, "some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person's lifetime". The APA also says that "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation". For some the focus of sexual interest will shift at various points through the life span. At least one study suggests that self-reported sexual orientation in a community may change over time in response to differing social trends

[@BishopBarron]

I love the Maronite Church! If you could raise the money, our team would come. God bless you.

[@BishopBarron]

I was referencing the Platonic philosophical tradition.

[@littlerichie874]

Another great commentary Fr. Barron, thank you !!

[@juanruiz6782]

If people only knew that God wants everybody to be happy in love within God's guidelines, people would be eternally grateful.

[@1chipatkinson]

Father, it turns out that my brother in law than led me into the Church is Bobby Conrad. He was 2 years your senior at the same high school. He played basketball there and then starred at Clemson, leading them to the elite 8. His brother Kevin was just behind you, he played at Dayton. Both are in their respective school's HOF. Bobby is now a federal judge in Charlotte.

[@insidetrip101]

Plus, it really doesn't make sense to say we have "responsibility over creation" without having "power" over creation. I cannot think in one circumstance where the one who has responsibility over another has less power. The fact that you have responsibility PROVES power.

[@john9394pm]

Love is willing the good of another person. beautiful definition

[@insidetrip101]

" It is not within the Catholic Church's power to decide someone's mental, spiritual and relational state." Spoken like a true Catholic; even if you aren't.

[@josephgoutier683]

Excellent, inspiring, reasonable! showing the wisdom, the human-ness and the divine-ness of the Catholic way

[@reginaclaire4680]

Woah! BB found a way to speak about sex in a JP2 style. Bravo! No moralizing off putting condemnations but calling his listeners higher.

[@Sergeantyummy]

I doubt you are into anime Fr. Barron, but I would recommend checking out Trigun. I would like to hear your comments on the christian themes in that series.

[@DanielFrost21]

Fr. Barron, this is an excellent talk. I made the mistake of not following the Church's teaching on sexuality, and it led to the ultimate downfall of my marriage. Sex is a wonderful gift from God, but taken out of its proper context, it can be a dangerous thing. The "hook up" culture is a destructive path for our young people. The Church's teaching on sexuality frees us from so many negative consequences, while promiscuity enslaves people to bad relationships, etc........Dan

[@insidetrip101]

" This responsibility is not "power over creation" since we have no control over the last breath that we just took." Tell that to the past hundred years or so of medicine. Yes, everyone will eventually die, but that means we don't have absolute control, not no control. There is a HUGE difference there.

[@otaaac3]

I have been waiting for Fr. Barron to address those who define themselves by homosexual attraction. He's done it without saying the words (gay, &c.) with the observation of "rampant Nietzscheism" in Moderns. All comes back to what he also observed with SCOTUS, "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life." (the "mystery clause" of 1992; original sin)

[@diannechathurangaatukorele4530]

I totally accept you father.

[@JoseLopez-gl4qk]

Dear Father Barron, I am sorry you have to put up with these people in the comment sections. Keep doing what you do, you put the intelligence in Catholicism. Thank you

[@afegalese7]

Hello Fr. Barron, when will you visit us in the Holy Land of Lebanon and make a movie on the Christians of the Middle East?

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

Love your neighbor as yourself, all of reality should be confined within the context of love. We can't prove what one another believes, that's psychological, it's a state of mind, but how we treat one another is evident, always. Peace Friend,

[@adolfo33]

Thank you for your words, it is refreshing to read such a comment, may Jesus Bless you! :)

[@tinman1955]

It's tempting to think that people who don't agree with us are stupid or crazy but I've found it ain't necessarily so. Besides, the commentator is a Catholic priest, this is his channel and we come here voluntarily -- so it wouldn't hurt you to be a little nicer.

[@FaithandReason101]

no one is going to argue that self denial isnt part of the christian life. no cross, no crown. but it is not strictly as you defined it. It isnt always about denial, just to deny. It is about using faculties of the human person according to their intended ends. The obvious complementarity between man and woman, and the stability a married life "should" bring, is the ideal place for children to grow and mature.

[@imommtube]

Fr Barron please make a video about divorced Catholics, please include not just all the things that everybody knows about not being allowed to take the Holy Eucharistia but give some hope thanks

[@juandouek]

Hi, with "superficial", I believe he means a relationship where the focus is in the physical aspect of the person sometimes even turning the person into an object in contrast with a relationship where each one cares for the other.

[@Wadj1]

Father Barron is talking about sex and sexuality in the context of the Church's teaching and if you look at the Nietzschean model of 'self creation' without God's input, that's exactly what sterilisation and contraception is; taking that choice and forgetting, or ignoring, God and His will for His creation. If you believe in God, do what He wants. If you don't, then it's a perfectly valid choice.

[@jaysantiago3283]

im here because of my theology subject. college sucks

[@jnuval]

I'd say today's culture has more of a rampant Marquis de Sade-ism than Nietzsche-ism, in that extreme absolutism of freedom without responsibility or consequences.

[@BishopBarron]

So let me see if I have this right: I calmly offer arguments, you engage in shrill ad hominem attacks, and I'm the one who's irrational!?

[@herminiaraagas3757]

That's nice!! Happy Valentine's Day!!

[@BishopBarron]

Still another compelling argument from the intellectual arsenal of the "new" atheism.

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

Right before that verse Father is the part about treating everyone the same. "The rain falls on the just and the unjust". When we throw a party, a marriage celebration let's say, we're supposed to invite the people no one else invites to parties. Maybe your love for the Church doesn't allow you to accept as equals those who have an alternative sexual orientation? The first miracle I was a participant in involved an act of Divine Protection of a gay man. I was physically saved also. Peace.

[@imabout2plotz]

My dream come true: Fr. Barron vs. Bill Maher. Fr. Barron would finally convert that man! LOVE YOUR VIDEOS.

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

It's not what goes into the body that defiles a person, it's the things they say.

[@CoryTheRaven]

And what reason do I have to believe that kindness for the sake of kindness is an accurate comprehension of reality?

[@CoryTheRaven]

I care about Quebec. One of the things that defines Canadian identiy is the fact that we are a multicultural society made up of diverse nations, Quebec and the First Nations in particular. In day-to-day life I'm sure you didn't notice much difference, but we are fundamentally different in the ethos of trying to get along with and accomodate our neighbours rather than try to eliminate anyone different from ourselves.

[@rottenaudiobooks2310]

"Culture of Nietzscheanism..." Yup. Definitely sounds like the road Marquis de Sade was taking. The human spirit of many will rebel against taking it to that extreme. My question though is...why are we playing with fire?

[@kimsabacahan1268]

Father, i have to be honest. i was born and raised a Catholic. I love the Church and I try to obey Christ. But I know it's not enough. You said yourself that we must also be intellectually competent against our critics. So please tell me where shall I start? What shall I read? I am hungry for knowledge and willing to learn. Thank you and God bless you. You just earned a new fan :)

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

I'm one of the Americans who understands world diversity. As I was writing to you I was thinking about this video, I'm sure you already know it: We Can Be Heroes - A British Army Tribute Just turned off Fr. Barron in it's favor. I descend from the Red Hills of Wales. How did you know I was Christian? I'm down here in So Cal, it's predominantly Mexican. You're not like them, you're exactly like me, but I pray to dead people the same as Catholics & l like Latin. We're all the same Friend!

[@FaithandReason101]

which is why in a discussion, both sides need to define what they mean by key terms. the judeo/christian perspective is that family traditionally means a husband, wife and children.

[@sshealy1]

Good point, Bulloxe4, since the Catholic divorce rate is almost as high as the national standard. Given the high number of annulments granted by diocesanTribunals, most of the marriages weren’t valid in the first place which is not much of a consolation. The church teaches us the standards, but many fail to meet them. Thankfully, we have many examples of good Catholic marriages in our parishes to imitate and not give up on the standards. This is a ministry need that is "screaming" in parishes.

[@TobiBaronski]

Not at all religious, but have a like for stimulating thought

[@ebnera2]

St. Justin Martyr touched the subject in his dialogue with Trypho.

[@EmpirealDemocracy]

I think the main problem I have with this argument is that it assumes that sex outside of marriage and procreative/intimate purposes must be inherently divorced from love. Before I go any further, I want to establish that there is a difference between loving your fellow man and the love that you would have for your spouse. At least how we experience it. True, casual sex does not contain the passion and caring that one would find in spousal love, but you are nevertheless sharing a part of yourself with another person. A certain level of respect has to be present if both parties consent. And I think this is encompassed by practical love. That is, the notion that although it may be very difficult to feel love towards everyone, we should always acts as if we loved them. By showing respect and consideration. If, of course, that practical love is not present, such as in cases of rape, then this is clearly wrong. Another way that sexual acts can be wrong is if dishonesty is involved, such as when one partner is merely using the other for sex while promising that they love them. This lack of honesty is also a lack of practical love. I know you won't agree with this, Bishop Barron, but I just wanted you to see that not all detractors of this view are operating on caricature of Church teaching or resorting to insult.

[@jameshills7425]

I agree with a lot of what Bishop Barron says. In 1st Corinthians 13, Paul tells us all other virtues must grow out of love. However, the Bible also gives us strict guidelines as to how to express our sexuality. The only real avenue to engage in sex is in marriage. This stricture is not popular now a days, but there is no way around it. If we dance around this we do a disservice to Biblical teaching. Is Christianity Puritanical? Perhaps not, as Puritanism was a specific and strict framework and not only regarding sex. However, Christianity is probably regarded as Puritanical by current, popular, secular standards. Let us know and try to stick to the teachings of the Bible concerning how we should engage in sexuality in our world. This may be difficult and unpopular, but I do not believe God wants us only to do what is easy and popular.

[@BishopBarron]

But friend, the only reason you know about God is that some religion told you about him!

[@dozog]

Bishop Robert Barron Why cant God speak to us outside of religion. Religion is just an interpretation of what that religion claims they know about God. If the Bible is the word of God, God has spoken to humans. No need for religion.

[@F84Thunderjet]

You did not say that "using 3 billion for other works of charity was/is a better expenditure..." You said: "no one is going to argue against it being spent in better places". I'll assume that you meant by "better places" - works of charity. So we certainly agree on that point.

[@BishopBarron]

I'm sorry, friend, but what's irrational here is your commentary. Mohandas Gandhi, Martin Luther King, William Lloyd Garrison, Bishop Tutu, and John Paul II ardently believed in God and proved to be enormously active "world-changers."

[@juandouek]

I think it is free to interpretation, my take is that he may not be advocating Catholic wedlock [...] as the "only", but as a very good one, and he may not be neither advocating Catholic wedlock but love and divine love which I understand to be commitment to fulfill a higher purpose which is not an exclusivity of the Catholic Church.

[@juandouek]

Ah ok, but I believe he was not criticizing romantic sexual activity but sex without love. It is true, he added the commitment aspect as something which is even better, I don't think that he is confining it as the "only" but postulating it as the best.

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

"I used to be the same as everyone here" - a line from the movie Short Time (starring Dabney Coleman) There's this scene with Tom Noonan playing a born again self ordained minister in a park preaching to a few yocals willing to give him the time of day, "I used to be just like everyone else here", it's so funny. Tom Noonan played the role of Cain in Robocop 2 (The Villain). I used to be like everyone else. What a great piece of celluloid. Peace Friend

[@DannyPhantomBeast]

Of course much of this is inter-personally relative, just based on my own observations I think the causal relationship is "alienation/suffering" then "filling that void with lots of sex/sexual conquest."

[@Sirustalcelion]

Interesting to hear about puritanism without any reference to the historical protestant puritanism.

[@CoryTheRaven]

Working on it! Thanks for helping!

[@CoryTheRaven]

"When a couple is called to marriage and not parenthood, they are using the sexual union for something less than love. They are using it for pleasure." Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. So the Catholic Church has decreed that a couple's loving sexual communion is not REALLY love because it doesn't follow their doctrines about what sex is "supposed" to be for. It is not within the Catholic Church's power to decide someone's mental, spiritual and relational state.

[@adangelor]

Oh, my dear Bishop, there's only one correction I will suggest: love is not ONLY an act of the will. That's some kind of voluntarism. Real love integrates the feelings and instincts and the will enligthened by the reason in the donation of oneself to the loved one.

[@BishopBarron]

Andrés José D'Angelo Rodríguez Not so! It has nothing to do with voluntarism. And the love act can certainly be accompanied by feeling, passion,etc., but it is crucially important to make the right distinctions here.

[@adangelor]

Understood, but I was thinking of what Thomas Aquinas says in S. Th. I, II, q 10 Art 3: "The will is moved not only by the universal good apprehended by the reason, but also by good apprehended by sense." It is impossible for men to do a pure act of the will, I think that's some kind of angelism (or voluntarism), or an oversimplification of the human act. We are "SoulAndBody" beings, and all of our acts are I think, "somatic acts" in the sense of being incarnated acts. Excuse me for my broken English, but I think that human love is not ONLY an act of the Will, but it is the complete human act: Like Christ gives us in the Supreme act of Love with his Body, Soul, Blood and Divinity, I think that Human Marital Love is the TOTAL donation of the being, soul and body, with instincts and affection included, to the other. Of course that I understand that sometimes it seems that only the will is the only remaining thing in our love, but I think that this kind of affirmation can be misleading sometimes. When a man falls in love with a woman, the first movement is purely instinctive. After that, affections took place, but the "erotic" part is not replaced, just integrated into a more deep love. The last part in the "integration" of love is the will, enlightened by reason, that is the full understanding of love as a voluntary donation to the other.

[@BishopBarron]

Andrés José D'Angelo Rodríguez Friend, I don't deny any of that. But I'm distinguishing, as Thomas does, between the essential and the accidental.

[@mesicvraku8200]

by the holy---- this is a real priest. rock´n´roll ! preach it !

[@bobboulos]

I believe in a sermon, I'm happy to learn you're a frequent follower of Father's talks :) I share the same.

[@Jorbz150]

As a person not currently a Catholic, I must say I don't think the rule is arbitrary at all. I think it has a reason. They didn't say "don't do things that start with the letter C." The issue to them, it seems, is that they think sex should be done functionally, and that sex without reproduction possibilities is selfish. Whether that is right or not, it certainly doesn't seem arbitrary.

[@insidetrip101]

Theology of the Body isn't gnostic unless it is saying that pleasure is bad, which is what you are saying (to my knowledge it does not claim that pleasure is bad, and it implicitly accepts contraception as far as we understand sex not necessarily producing offspring. Once we accept that there is at least one sexual act that has diminished chances of procreating, NFP, it is not a leap to accepting others. You're going to have to cite it with specificity if you want to make an argument).

[@Jorbz150]

Today's society can not simply stand on error's of the past and pretend itself perfect.

[@cellomon09]

"regardless of whether there is no good reason why a couple needs to have children in order to have a fulfilling marriage, for example." Not the Church's position, btw.

[@patrickkevinwiggins6992]

Good video love your videos they are educational and interesting. Just a teen but I must say you are pretty darn awesome!

[@ProtectionUnderLaw]

Here where I live the homeless go to St. Mary's & St. Frances' church for coffee & danish every morning. I'm not Catholic, wasn't raised that way, not willing to go through catecism at this point of my life, but to deny the help the Holy Roman Catholic Church provides to humanity would be an error. We all can't be home buliders for the poor. That's my job, was my job. Look at your own hands friend. What are they telling you? Peace & Love 2 You.

[@splotsplot]

Is their such a thing as "good" or "bad" on Pluto at the moment?

[@IcepickL]

splotsplot Interesting question. I would say there is good everywhere, permeating the universe. Bad things can happen (i.e. pluto could break apart and cease to exist) regardless of the presence of any moral actors. However, those bad things wouldn't be evil (at least not in the moral sense), because of the aforementioned lack of moral actors.

[@splotsplot]

Surely the definition of "good" or "bad" relates to the interaction between humans. I don't think a stone can be bad to a piece of grass. If an apple falls of a tree and squashes a beetle I don't think "good" or "bad" has any meaning here. In that respect then I don't think their is any good or bad on Pluto at the moment. Surely then their can be no "God" on Pluto at the moment. These things have to be brought there by man when he visits.

[@IcepickL]

splotsplot I would disagree. I would say it is good for something to exist, and bad for it not to exist. In other words, an imaginary something is not as good as a real something. Also, if I may be so bold, I would like to take a guess that you believe "Value is not something intrinsic to things, but rather something imposed by Human beings". I would argue that things have inherent value regardless of human intervention. For example, let's say a rare berry that has yet to be discovered has the sweetest taste of any natural plant. This berry will always have this value, even if it is never discovered. Likewise, just because human beings have discovered something and see no value in it, it doesn't mean that thing has no value. If something common like rice contained the cure for cancer, but we never discovered that, it wouldn't mean that rice loses that cancer curing value, that "goodness". Another way to put it: If a tree falls in a woods, and no one is around to hear it, it still makes a sound. The absence of a perceiver doesn't imply the absence of a quality or event.

[@splotsplot]

"I would say it is good for something to exist, and bad for it not to exist. In other words, an imaginary something is not as good as a real something." Yes, but you need humans around to debate that. Without human self awareness nothing is good and nothing is bad. Good or bad require human interpretation. Sweetness does not exist in the world really - it is an affect or sensation that the brain producers to a certain chemical composition. Only the chemicals are real, sweetness is not - it is an arbitrary interpretation in the brain. (It is just like the colour "green" Green does not really exist, only the electromagnetic frequency does. Greeness is an arbritary evolutionary sensation in the brain) To have "sweetness" you need human self consciousness. Evolution could have made our ears turn blue under the affect of this chemical composition in which case we could look at a man with very, very blue ears and see that he had just eaten something very, very "sweet"!

[@splotsplot]

+Icepick L Surely the concept of "good" and "bad" require the existence of human life or more specifically at least two human lives. I don't think a rock can be bad to a tree or a river be bad to an apple. The existence of "good" or "bad" seems to require the existence of people and given their are no people on Pluto at the moment then "good" and "bad" do not exist on Pluto at the moment. It seems to follow then that the existence of "good" and "bad" follow on as a consequence of the existence of people. You have to conclude then that God or God's require the existence of people first. In other words people create Gods.

[@solomonulloa8051]

I will mention you in my prayers for sure =) Please Keep me in prayer also father. God bless "+"'

[@CoryTheRaven]

Part of the problem that we've been dealing with since the Sexual Revolution (well, since forever, but for us it's been notable in the last 40 years) is discovering that effervescent sexuality has actually increased social withdrawl. Fulfilling sexual appetites has been contextualized as a subset of consumerism, with other human beings reduced to sexual service providers. Yes love is elusive, but the response is not to treat other people as means to an orgasm.

[@CoryTheRaven]

...Morality is ultimately rooted in reality. Whatever is real and true is what defines how we should act. Therefore, with God being Love, our morality must ultimately derive from this reality of the universe. One of the ways Christ expressed this Love is by fighting against the use of religious and secular laws to oppress people. I take my queue from Him, which is why you've seen me be so combative about Catholoic doctrine and why I reject the Hindu system of oppression...

[@CoryTheRaven]

"Whether or no man could be washed in miraculous waters, there was no doubt at any rate that he wanted washing. But certain religious leaders in London, not mere materialists, have begun in our day not to deny the highly disputable water, but to deny the indisputable dirt. Certain new theologians dispute original sin, which is the only part of Christian theology which can really be proved." - G.K. Chesterton, "Orthodoxy"