BLACK CAVIAR WINS 22nd race at Royal Ascot is she better than WINX

[@potatoncarrots]

People don't realise how difficult it is for horses to win outside there own region,Ambitious Dragon couldn't win in Dubai,Cirrus Des Aigles, couldn't win in 3 attempts in Hong Kong,Excelebration couldn't win in America,Danedream couldn't win in Japan etc etc etc Black Caviar won overseas whilst not at her best,she is a legend

[@graemealexander8804]

And the greatest in Phar Lap, The Agua Caliente in 1932 on dirt, the world's richest race. 7 races held that day & he broke the track record with a profusely bleeding split hoof. Nearly lame before the race, arrived after an arduous long boat trip, arrived in his winter coat. Missed the start, was last, was 1st by the turn & covered 2 furlongs in just 22 seconds. Both incredible horses.

[@F50Aircraft]

So You Think won five G1s in both hemispheres, the only horse to do that.

[@freedomforpeopletruelies6]

Not that hard to be honest

[@F50Aircraft]

@@freedomforpeopletruelies6 what do you mean?

[@freedomforpeopletruelies6]

@@F50Aircraft to win races abroad

[@Tamsin710]

What a win! Travelled thousands of miles, looked like she had trained off & injured during the race BUT she still won!! If she had been at her best & won it easily this race would probably be long forgotten. As it is it will be remembered forever as one of the most dramatic finishes ever!!

[@kevengray1319]

All things aside some Aussies(including me) understandably tear up watching this Mighty Mare. Weve been spoilt good and very priviledged.

[@Reactiverse22]

Australia produces the best horses in the world fr 👌

[@mprsv1]

I can’t watch this without crying. This was on my bday & we were out at the casino watching at 1am.

[@TOLOFFICIAL]

Watching this again tonight after quite a while and just really appreciating what a great victory for the mighty mare Black Caviar this was.

[@amazed66]

What, you mean when she fell over the line against a couple of mile horses?

[@jakebarringham7248]

@@amazed66 tool

[@bgardiner3354]

@@amazed66 yes, injured and still managed to beat a 5 x G1 winning Cartier horse of the year, after 11 races in 11 months, travelling to the other side of the world out of season. Unfortunately there are many people who lack the racing faculty to appreciate what she achieved in her career on the basis of her performance in this race despite the fact that she ran 15lbs below her season average.

[@iamthebroker]

@@amazed66 nice one dipshit

[@graemealexander8804]

@@amazed66 Injured...

[@nickers0077]

RIP Black Caviar. She passed away today - one day shy of her 18th birthday.

[@sharonozvenom]

They put her down just after she produced a foal . Greedy owners should be ashamed of themselves .

[@Matt-sl4vf]

​@@sharonozvenomshe had laminitis you fool

[@johnseabrook1029]

Spot on. An absolute disgrace how she was treated.

[@kurman4749]

Black Caviar was the best sprinter I have ever seen. She was injured in this race, having a torn muscle in her quarters and still managed to win. She was an incredible racehorse.

[@graemetarrant4021]

It's a pitty the everest wasn't around a few years ago. The cav would of snashed it every year

[@luke9705]

I totally forgot about the Everest... you’re so right! He would have dominated

[@BlankaTK]

It would of been nice to watch chautauqua make a start in the Everest or possibly win it

[@bgardiner3354]

@@luke9705 she

[@luke9705]

@@bgardiner3354 my bad!

[@ronniefozz5028]

@@BlankaTK Chautauqua did

[@Tamsin710]

Wow! Amazing effort to beat the superstar Moonlight Cloud when not at her best! Just read the book and I'm sure if it was any other horse Peter Moody would not have run. The pressure from the media and public for her to run was enormous. A truly great performance from the champ!

[@taykyl001]

I think they new she wasn't 100% but ran her anyway, just to keep up appearances, I thought by the half way mark she was struggling a bit.

[@bgardiner3354]

With all the hype could you imagine the scene had Moody pulled her? Hats off for having a go. There are too many ignorant ppl who don't see this win for what it was... a hugely gutsy win against all odds. The Darley Classic run at Flemington on the weekend shows just how much better the Australian sprinters are.

[@amazed66]

+Tamsin710 - By no stretch of the imagination could Moonlight Cloud ever be described as a superstar and she was a 7f to a mile horse running at a sprint distance anyway and still gave Black Caviar the fright of her life. MC had raced in England twice before this race and was 5th and 7th and on more than one occasion had finished behind Excelebration, who was 0 from 5 against Frankel and MC was also beaten 8 times during a 20 race career. That might count as superstar status in Australia but not elsewhere.

[@leom5095]

amazed66 so you don’t mention the fact that she was injured you moron?

[@russe19642]

@@amazed66 if you call having a stablemate in a four horse field is how you call your racing you're deluded,if farkall came to Australia he would have been bullied and lucky to win a quality,black caviar would have torn him a new one up to 1400 the winx would have filled it in over that,with no dodgy pacemakers either,thats so suss and rigged.Couldnt he race in an open competitive field of more than 4?overrated hack

[@AnotherFastnet70]

Black Caviar's formlines are still being franked today, years after her retirement with 8yo Aussie Buffering winning his 7th Grp1 in the Al Quoz Sprint in Dubai. They met 3 times, all Grp1 races, and Black Caviar won comprehensively every time. A once in a lifetime freak sprinter.

[@burningsagemanmusic7491]

And than Winx comes along to spoil the party!

[@jakebarringham7248]

@@burningsagemanmusic7491 lol overrated horse

[@SvendBosanvovski]

Winx couldn't have beaten Black Caviar in a short sprint; Black Caviar couldn't have won 4 Cox Plates.

[@csbcsb4458]

too good. can watch this all day along. aussie.legend

[@Michaelnavarri-v4l]

Black cavier sadly passed away today what a wonder horse

[@BossBelsham]

2 years from watching it live, i still cannot believe nolen almost blew it. -Didn't need to pump the whip -Hands and heels over the line was sufficient yet he stopped riding.

[@taykyl001]

He didn't use the whip, apparently just put it in eye sight & apparently she never had the whip used on her, which is a good thing.

[@johnwedgbury6817]

@carol m if he knew she was injured, he would have dismounted virtually straight away after the race. just a poor ride

[@TheDarrenguyuk]

He was o Always gonna win just distance bet

[@BalmainBucko]

Putting it from another perspective for those Brits who cant quite draw a line through her form at Ascot..Take over Target, Miss Andretti,Starbanglebanner and Choirs all winners of the King Stand and jubilee, Choirs taking out the double and track record holder are the fastest horse by actual coarse time to race at Ascot If all these horse's met her here over the 6f Black Caviar would still be in the red and win by 3 to 5 lghts IMO and most other Aussie's would agree with this, she stands alone!

[@postcardterry]

Having watched "Lady Aurelia`s Queen Mary Royal Ascot" win again, it must be said that Frankie`s hands and heels approach, and his easing up near the line show the fastest two year old of all time could have broken the one minute barrier on the rain softened ground.She is clearly value for a length more than the official seven lengths. Incredible !

[@wgtlizard6999]

Why compare frankel to black caviar, bc raced at 6-7f and frankel was a miler, totally different racing..get over yourselves!

[@nfelvis68]

Well said.

[@bgardiner3354]

+WGT Lizard69 They both raced over 7F. Regardless, modern racing's use of ratings is always going to spark these sorts of conversations. It's Human nature to want to compare. And the difference between milers and sprinters is not that great.

[@postcardterry]

tell the truth Gardiner ! How many times have you changed your underpants today ?? The last day of Ascot and everyone is winning except Oz !

[@anneshaw9681]

What a load of rubbish. I am Australian and can tell you Frankel would beat Black Caviar by four over 6f. Vain is the only horse we have ever had in Australia post war that ever came close to Frankel winning races over 1200 by 10 and 12 lengths. Vain was the only freak sprinter this country has had post war. You can compare any horse over any distance over any era. Journalists do it all the time telling Australians that Black caviar is better than Phar Lap. Pathetic

[@postcardterry]

Well said Anne ! The only journalist I ever met who could actually do something impressive was ND, who could tip big priced winners that were sourced from stable employees. Unfortunately though, as the press are backed by the Bookmaking industry, they do not want the general public having too many winners.

[@bgardiner3354]

Terry wrote " If Chief Singer can go from being the best miler to the best sprinter in 1984, it would be absurd to suggest the greatest horse of all time could not -my p.o.r xx."

[@postcardterry]

Well done to Ireland on their one, two, three in last night`s Melbourne Cup 2017. I have long been called this and that for telling the truth but it is now official ; Oz racing is full of wood ! How can anyone be in doubt after this morning`s result. Absolute wood ! B.Gardiner2000,Bob Gardiner and B.Gardiner now know the truth. Two bob Bob has no place to hide. He can invent another username ( he has far more usernames than winners) but it`s official ; Oz racing is in a very very bad place.

[@earp61able]

Bloody hell Walto your putting up a good, fair, if long winded point. I agree with your points about prize money in the UK lagging behind Hong Kong and Aus, and Snow Fairy being a great maré.

[@matthewlawrance6116]

bc injured badly at the start , no other horse in the world could of won that race injured #bestsprinterwewillseeinourtime

[@Apassion4horses]

Matthew Lawrance tell me how was she injured? Lame? Doesn't look it what do ever. Horse looked fine to me.

[@auss13ka0s5]

@@Apassion4horses tore it's hindquarter ya fucking muppet.

[@elgransenor1472]

I thought it happened at the start too. The way she came out of the stalls looked really awkward but I've never seen any comment or report about it anywhere. She was over the top before she got to England. Stupid decision to run her in Adelaide in April and May.

[@BalmainBucko]

. At two, Canford Cliffs won the Coventry Stakes (Gr 2, 6f), beating Xtension by six lengths. At three, he ran third to Makfi in the 2000 Guineas (Gr 1, 1m) at Newmarket before taking out the Irish 2000 Guineas and the St James’s Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot, and then the Sussex Stakes all at Group 1 level over a mile. At four, he won the Lockinge Stakes (Gr 1, 1m) before beating the Champion mare Goldikova in the Queen Anne Stakes (

[@elgransenor1472]

Black Caviar is better than Winx.

[@csbcsb4458]

Lmfao k

[@clivesangster7274]

And neither are better than Frankel.

[@jakebarringham7248]

@@clivesangster7274 good joke

[@russe19642]

Oh god youre here as well blackening winx,she must really get under your skin thats she's so much better than your give me a pacemaker or i wont win farkall.

[@russe19642]

@@clivesangster7274 theyd be putting both of them back in the float time he crossed the line

[@SmeggyMcgee]

RIP BC. Legendary

[@andrewharman8712]

Frankel would beat black cavair no trouble

[@aidenoleary7406]

It is comparable. Frankel ran at 7f in his career

[@jakebarringham6700]

😂😂

[@nathancooper4217]

no one would beat her. sorry to burst your bubble.

[@jakebarringham7248]

Good joke

[@guitarlegend32]

Evening Frank.Been following your debate with BG and have to say it is a breath of fresh air.I was a regular poster on another site and had some real good ding dongs(Sp included)but the ineptitude of some more recent contributers,if I can call them that,has diluted my appetite for debate and I simply laugh at their ignorance these days.As for me,I used to be an apprentice years ago and got to ride Mr Brooks a couple of times in his work.I got too big though and since then have simply been a...

[@frankpharsec1]

Just looked up Mr.Brooks record in a bit more detail.Didn't realise what a top drawer horse he was.July Cup,L'Abbeye.Top class.I seperated them for the reason's you gave,the style's are so different.As you said,all left handed,Man O'War only on dirt and even when Secretariat raced on turf it was very fast going compared to the British tracks.Man O' War was revered at the time as simply unbeatable and his defeat is one of the biggest injustices in U.S racing history.Secretariat's record..cont..

[@bordercollie1140]

Don't think Aidan O'brien will be head - hunting that jockey, takes his foot off the pedal in a 6f race at Royal Ascot. No horse is that good. An inch from throwing it away.

[@darrenbull3215]

what a call from jim mcrath who retired yesterday fantastic commentator

[@earp61able]

Just been rated joint greatest race mare or filly over the last 35 years by the international handicappers. Great news for Australian and New Zealand racing. Well respected overseas for the quality of racehorse they breed and race.

[@bgardiner2000]

Hey guitar... yes, absolutely open to debate. With regards to BC she's likely to be past her absolute best, so it'll be interesting to see what she does when / if she comes back. From what I understand it's still up in the air.

[@BalmainBucko]

No need for an apology, you make a couple of valid points, I have come to understand the tracks are different in the U.K and I also knew S.P was an aussie,..the race I was referring to was his last race against Cirrus..they did run through the first 3 over 40's one of them furlongs a 14.25 the others 2 13.6 or around there somewhere with out going back and double checking them.. when you consider Frankel ran his last furlong around 11.96 and Cirrus probably a shade over 12.3..(con)

[@BalmainBucko]

I just hope they pay her the dues in the ratings there have been some magnificent horses in the past all around the world and it's not about putting them down although I have crossed reference to them from time to time mostly to highlight what this girl has achieved because the world is starting appreciate her and in a way she belongs to all her fans abroad as well I'd be happy with a 140 for her, I think anything less is selling her phenomenal record/ winning streak short of what it deserves.

[@Tamsin710]

Really this win is spectacular by Black Caviar. We will only appreciate it more & more as time goes on. Moonlight Cloud is a champion who has proven the form time & again with multiple Gr.1 wins.

[@earp61able]

It'll be great to see the great mare at Royal Ascot and show us the three to four length better horse she is than the one who won last year. Talking of great mares Makybe Diva is a legend. To win one Melbourne Cup is a great achievement but three on the bounce. The Cox Plate to boot.

[@earp61able]

I am a pom and proud Of the quality of racing we have, but if you can't appreciate the brilliance of racing elsewhere you being blinkered. Black Caviar was injured in the Diamond Jubilee and still won. Dayjur was a brilliant sprinter, but this mare is the best speedster as far as I'm concerned. Her stride makes her took much bigger than her opponents.

[@frankpharsec1]

As you can tell Guitarlegend I am from the U.S!I came to England many years ago and have indirectly been involved in the sport since I was a child.My father had a small farm in Maryland and I rode ponies regularly that we reared which eventually became lead horses,the ones you see taking the race horses to post.I got involved in a small time breeding operation that bred a few winners,alas the stallion fees went ridiculous,although we did visit Danzig with a Fly So Free mare and made a..cont..

[@giantscauseway45]

She is a pure machine ...she left her country to run against the best all over the world..you have to leave ur country to run against the best to be the best .she proved herself everywere ..

[@peace-now]

Thanks for that. Great champions do this. They perform when they are not right. Black Caviar is a great champion.

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to ; Frankel, on the victories of his daughter ; Lady Frankel (Group Three) and his son ; Eminent (Group Two, ahead of Brametot ) yesterday in France. Now let`s see Black Caviar return to UK, and meet up with "His Majesty" !

[@earp61able]

It' ll be great for racing if the great mare finished her unbeaten career back at Royal Ascot next June. Just to show us Brits she is a four length better horse than what was produced this year. After Frankel retiring we want a superstar to showcase the big meeting.

[@BalmainBucko]

Haradasun won the Doncaster with only 52.5kg in 2007 and went on to win the QA in the UK.. Sunline won with 58...went on to win the Hong kong vase over the 8f..NJ 59.5kg..huge respect mate!

[@TheNoodle1971]

That was amazing i didn't see the jockey whip that horse ONCE! thats probably why he won :)

[@CharlesOlney23]

... deserve to see her one more time and I think that would be enough as a whole fair well tour would be pushing it. It would be very apt if she had her last race and her 23rd win in February in the race now named in her honour and beat into second (by a respectable distance) a fellow mare called Ortensia. The team can then retire her in the knowledge that it will be a long time before a horse will surpass her winning streak (especially now Bib Bucks is injured) and before her equal.

[@CharlesOlney23]

I do not pretend to know enough on this subject but I read an article where the trainer of a sprinter down under named Sea Siren suggested that this colt could give Black Caviar a race. Now there always seems to be a real top sprinter on the conveyor belt in Australia and it's hard keeping track of them but I would like to know what Australian's think of this suggestion from John O'Shea (I believe that's his name). And I also heard about a horse called Mental who is perhaps running in Dubai.

[@24B791]

Imagine if she didn't injury herself mid race. Would be 5 lengths as usual

[@postcardterry]

Great night at Kempton yesterday ! Plenty of Pinot too ! Thanks to Harry Spiller for his tip in the last. It did not win but 20s third was much appreciated. Harry is a lovely guy, who has taken over Willie Musson`s yard in Newmarket following ole Willie`s(85 years old??) retirement. Cheaper horses but worth following through the winter.Many carry the prefix of the owner`s company ;Broughton Thermal Insulation. Thanks too, to the two Oz gentleman ; Malcolm and Fraser who tipped me Almandin for The Melbourne Cup.

[@BalmainBucko]

As the connections of Frankel roll around in there hay of stud money and the world is robbed of seeing Frankel race on into his 5 and 6 year old age...the connections of Black Caviar who bravely risked her reputation by traveling abroad to Ascot and sustaining an injury that could have seen her retire are bringing her back as a 6 year on feb 16 in the lightning stakes, putting her 22/22 on the line for all her adoring fans...three cheers for her connections who are just ordinary working folk.

[@BalmainBucko]

What I find interesting across the broad spectrum of opinion here in Australia, she's the first horse to be compared beyond Kingston town and back to Phar Lap..Now as we all know that opinion is based more on our emotions and respect for her, as it's like comparing apples and oranges trying to compare her with them two...The only two apples in the same breath as her are Toddman and Vein and maybe Manikato IMO...imo my money would be on her at set weights with the 2 kilo pull would be 1 length

[@guitarlegend32]

...Dubawi who has thankfully become a top stallion as well.Seeking The Gold(DM's sire) was a class act also so Dubai Millenium's loss is very sad.Obviously down under SYT will be in demand and rightly so.He had a faithful following as a race horse and did as well as could be expected considering the ranks he faced.How many will race here is basically dependant on how many Coolmore purchase at the sales though the indepedants will perhaps see his fee as slightly on the cheap side and he will...

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to the great Galileo, who has broken all types of records in the last fortnight. A 1,2,3 in the Prix De L`Arc De Triomphe, the champion two year old of Europe following the Dewhurst victory of Churchill and a 1,2 in the Fillies Mile with Rhododendron and Hydrangea. If that were not enough, his daughter ; Photo Call defeated America`s best mare and Royal Ascot scorer ; Tepin in last week`s First Lady Stakes at Keeneland. Galileo rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@joshuadoherty6704]

Granted, that sectional for that sectional does seem slow. However, the track conditions that day were Soft to Heavy, Heavy in places. I'd presume the Heavy and the place would refer too Swinley bottom which is the lowest point on the racecourse and with the heavy rainfall prior to racing, would have been the soggiest because it's low lying ground. That slow sectional took place at Swinley bottom and suspect that the 8 to 7f sectional for each race on the round course would have been (continued)

[@bgardiner2000]

I actually think that there is a tangible comparison to be made with both Phar Lap & the other greats of Australian racing based on dominance. The achievements of some of BC's scalps in world racing demonstrate the gravity of BC's record & dominance. Ortensia, Star Witness, their relative merits against the likes of Hay List... The form is undeniable, as are the comparisons. Does it compare though with the records of KT / PL? Hard to say. In terms of legacy though she's definitely on par.

[@GBeret83]

Over sprinting distances I think Black Caviar was the better mare. At a mile or further I would've given Winx a slight edge since we never actually got a chance to see how Black Caviar would've handled racing at a mile or further. And since I'm always having to read in the comments section these days about how great Winx was, and how she could've beaten them all, I'll add by two cents here by saying Black Caviar & Winx were both terrific race-mares. But in my opinion both would've been little more than a good tow into the race for the beast that was Frankel. All three had big engines running on high octane, but Frankel had something they didn't, a nitrous oxide booster. Like one of the old American muscle cars drag racing from back in the day, all Queally had to do was press that nitrois button and Frankel would blast off and leave really good horses in really good fields looking like they were running in place. Black Caviar & Winx were both speedy mares for sure, but neither had ever seen nor faced an opponent with the kind of speed that Frankel possessed. Nor could either have lived with his speed, IMO.

[@Ned-e9o]

I think that Frankel had a "nitrous oxide boosting" pacemaker which made the difference in many of his races!

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to Frankel on the victory of Atty Persse, who won nicely on her debut yesterday at Sandown. It was some coincidence that the colt is owned by Bjorn Nielson of Abba because one hour later at Yarmouth, So Me Dar, who must be worth millions judged by her pedigree alone, won for Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber. For those racing historians, both amateur and professional, Atty Persse is quite an important name in UK.

[@peace-now]

This proved to me what a great great horse Black Caviar is. Those two in second and third were fair motoring at the end. Winning on an away track, drawn wide, bad conditions and when injured, and against champions like Moonlight Cloud is special. Is she better than Frankel? Who knows?

[@bgardiner2000]

7. straight. I believe that you could make a case as well for Phar Lap as any horse for best ever. In terms of racing legacy and impact though, he has no equal.

[@JonJonJonJonJonJonJonJon]

Chills. What a year 2012 ascot was

[@myfrobert]

So You Think, Frankel and Black Caviar.

[@BalmainBucko]

You know people are quick to quote Peter Moody's compliment to Frankel as gospel truth, but will accuse him of making excuses for a horse that won and still unbeaten 23/23 how crazy is that...he did say in his book, he was going to scratch her on the morning of the Jubilee the signs where there that she was not right but couldn't do it with the weight of the world on his shoulders and the consideration he knew she was a class above them..she still wins by 3/4 length if Nolen rides her out!

[@BalmainBucko]

What's that about lasix? Is that just a rumour or a fact mate? Was it found in a sample?

[@BalmainBucko]

We are delighted to have acquired a horse of the calibre of Canford Cliffs and I have no doubt that he will be very popular with Australian breeders,” Blue Gum’s Philip Campbell said. “He’s a very masculine horse with a beautiful action and showed his brilliance at two, three and four years of age

[@bgardiner2000]

70kg's, even 100 kg's is not a lot of weight for a horse to carry fresh from the paddock... although you'd prefer they didn't. We would generally know what weight you wanted them at and guage that to see how long they needed in the paddock. putting on a stack of weight though is a good thing. generally means they are happy and pain free. Horses in pain very rarely put on any weight. Because they can change shape so much as they grow weight is only a good indicator when you have them fit to...

[@BalmainBucko]

I just heard she is 70KG above her weight at Ascot..whether that's when she got of the plane or when she raced I'm not sure? but she's 30kg above her normal racing weight here...keep in mind last prep he may have been thinking about running her over the 7 or 8..there's no doubt her current weight is all about power and the shorts, she's coming to the end mate, geez I would love to see her race the clock, I reckon she could break the 55.at flemington, running under 11s for 5 furlongs in a row!

[@guitarlegend32]

Yes,he died unfortunately in '92 with Lester on his back.His off fore shattered and it was meant to be his last race before staying in the U.S and going to stud.God knows how well he would have been recieved as he was by an Australian stallion called Blazing Saddles.Great horse though was a typical sprinter in looks - massive shoulders,deep girth and it was like riding a bull with his hind quarters.But he was a looney.Some mornings he wouldn't even leave his box,then the next day bolt down...

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to James Slevin on his win aboard Crosshue Boy last night. Another brilliant ride from one of Ireland`s great new jocks.10s was readily available all afternoon but sp was only 6s.

[@BalmainBucko]

Game set match on that point, take care SP, we only will go around in circles from here if you can't see the logic in that..I might come back and revisit some of those other points you made at another time!

[@guitarlegend32]

..he won his third Gold Cup at Cheltenham.I can go back as far as about 1988 when my interest in the sport started so didn't see Dancing Brave live but his finishing speed in his Arc was astounding,over taking 8 group 1 winners in a furlong and putting daylight between himself and them in the process.Sea The Stars was a lazy liitle sod who stopped when hitting the front so it is difficult to really say how good he was but I would be surprised if he could have lowered Frankel's colours.Why did..

[@earp61able]

It wont be long now before the great mare struts her stuff again. Lets hope she remains unbeaten.

[@bgardiner2000]

Sea Siren is yet another Fastnet Rock G1 winning filly. It's obvious that she shows agreat amount of sprinting ability. Her 2 Group 1 wins in Queensland were in fields not that far off this year's King Stand. There's no doubt she's a talented filly, but would not see Black Caviar's tail-lights on a good day. Mental is another who has shown a good degree of ability & is certainly up to International G1 level. He's headed to Dubai & then to Europe. Have you seen Ocean Park, last years Cox Plate...

[@bettyboop4194]

Cant wait to see how she goes in her first race back. Not long now, counting down the days.

[@guitarlegend32]

Yes I did thankyou Frank.Twice actually - £25 ew then I thought bollocks do it again!So £50 ew and I'll keep my eye firmly on him.How many preps will he have?Isn't the Florida Derby a popular guide to the Derby itself?Anyway,there is a way of being fairly accurate in todays breeding markets regards the ability of horses - for their first 3 years in the sheds anyway.The fee.Obviously how well bred the horse is itself will determine a part of the fee but it is generally relative as to the talent..

[@BalmainBucko]

OK, I guess your right..I can't be hear, hear!.. if we're not actually talking to each other in person, so here,here!..would be the correct metaphor for "me too!"..well done Mr Magoo!

[@hackingSORRY]

BC had a fucking injury from this race and she recovered came back and WON!

[@MrWalto69]

He was being whipped at the end for starters , and no Frankel was struggling with the pace Cirrus was making so Bullet Train was trying to be a pest to Cirrus just to annoy him , and of course Frankel is going to be the more fresh when his pacemaker is slowing the race down so it is suitable for a pace Frankel likes , Frankel was able to make up lost ground with little effort ,

[@raffarmenio6933]

Despite being injured she still would have won by at least half a horse length had Nolan not eased up too early. That was despite not racing neatly as quick as she usually did. It was almost track work speed for her.

[@BalmainBucko]

The connections of Clanford Cliffs are not here by request due to a lack of our stock..their smart enough to know if CC was able to throw a couple of good horses they might be able to make better returns in years the come...this is where the money is..our group 1's on average are worth 5 times as much as the U.K and we have probably twice as many G1'S per A...BTW Lohnro (aus) stands at stud in the U.S.A for 77 thousand a serve NOT 17 thousand?

[@Numberx1]

i hope they bring her back here. after her performance a few of our trainers must have been kicking themselfs. id love to see sole power/bated breath/ deacon all in the frame.

[@fatboy5926]

She’s better than Winx but not because if this race. Winx was freaking amazing - but I don’t think she was the best 1600/2000 metre horse ever. It’s highly likely that we saw 1 better than Winx not long before Winx (Frankel) BC might be the fastest horse ever. During a time where Australia was/is breeding the best sprinters - she was the best and fastest by a mile. She used to put 10 effortlessly on Buffering - he won group ones here in Oz past his prime and even won Dubai. BC might be the greatest sprinter ever (certainly the best I’ve seen)

[@joshuadoherty6704]

You've mentioned about Wise Dan beating Exc and then said Home Ground advantage is huge. Bit unfair isn't it?

[@sp319]

Why would the horse run to the same rating every time? They are not robots have you not realised that. Ratings indicate what a horse is capable of, of course they're performances will vary somewhat. The thing is a horse like Frankel can run to a figure of over 140 with ease, whereas other top class horses can't get near a 140 their entire career. The argument over Exc vs SS was always about them racing to their peak in Dubai, and yet you are still asking me if his form would hold up in Aus..

[@triton7654]

Silly comment. She was injured. That's why she hasn't raced since (she resumes at Flemington on Saturday). If she'd been fit she would have lived up to the hype, as the ease of nearly all her previous 21 wins suggests.

[@SB-od1pn]

Vale beautiful, beautiful Black Cavier :(

[@guitarlegend32]

...about top of the tree.But the fact is that other than Frankel all of the top middle distance horses were within 3lb at their best and if they all competed 10 times in similar conditions there would probably be 4-5 different winners with horses like Farhh,St.Nic and even Twice Over at his best would be hot on their heels.But SYT would always be in the first 3 without doubt.I think he was extremely close ability wise to his father and without doubt the Aus middle distance scene can only...

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to James Slevin, Jack Kennedy and Finny Maguire on their winners last week ! There is probably no jockey in Europe showing a greater profit currently than Slevin ,who I forecast great things for months ago on the "Don Poli Lexus" pages. Jack Kennedy, also there, just gets better and better and is surely the hottest prospect in NH Racing now at seventeen years and three months old ! WELL DONE JACK !

[@mrcool1706]

I named my dog black caviar after her. I love you black caviar and will remember you forever❤

[@postcardterry]

Congratulations to Rachael Blackmore and Jamie Codd on their victories at yesterday`s prestigious Galway Festival. 10/1 and 5/1 not bad at all ! The sirloin last night was delicious ! Sorry Gardener but I only read articles written by professionals with a proven track record like myself !

[@BalmainBucko]

It's like our Stayers mate, we have nothing here, I think last year there was only 4 locals in our M/Cup.. I'll be interested to see if mental goes on with it..the lohnro horses normally mature at 4 ,he might have a bright future ahead?

[@earp61able]

Just been having a read on aussie racing news. Backed Animal Kingdom for tomorrows World Cup. Only just found out he will stand at stud in oz. Balmain you were on about lack of stayers in aussie breeding. Not a bad horse to kick start it mate.

[@MrEdwardo86]

How's the trainers reaction 😂 Nolan would've been blasted after the race!

[@patg9754]

did u catch the other 24 races?

[@lukee.h1471]

Wow that was 2012..time flies

[@royalascotladiesday650]

She is a dead set legend of a horse. No comparisons from us but she is as tough as they come winning like that with an injury.

[@sp319]

The result of modern compressed weighting. The handicapper would give Frankel 63.5 and then he would proceed to destroy MJ by 5-6 lengths.

[@sp319]

Helmet is not a reliable line for Frankel at all, he ran terribly. Did you ever think that he might have run better in the QA than he did against Mosheen. He was 3.75 off Indomito (RPR 113) in the QA and 8 off Strike the Stars (RPR 113) in the Guineas. Both of those horses ran at or very close to their peak form in those races. What does that tell you?

[@BalmainBucko]

John singleton, the owner of MJ..put up a million dollars for Frankel to race her out here at WFA..which is about 4 pound more for a colt..thus is her stature out here.

[@BalmainBucko]

Your right earp, they are both great champions with die hard loyal supporters who won't take a backwards step..but it should be acknowledge that it's not country against country they have fans in both places, each individual has there own opinion and their right to express it nothing wrong with a debate, but this one is getting a little long in the tooth!

[@nedpoines8104]

Ever heard the crowd noise as spontaneous and as loud as this at Ascot, particularly at the jump and finish? Experienced Ascot race-watchers please comment.

[@frankpharsec1]

Thanks for that Guitar I'll have a little tipple on him.Possibly the Florida Derby but more than likely the Tampa Bay or Arkansas Derby,maybe both.Todd Pletcher took a number of years to get the Kentucky Derby hoodoo off his back with Super Saver so I think he will go down the same route.Problem is though he will have possibly 3 going for the Derby itself and no way would he let them race eachother before so it will tell us something about the horses as to where they are placed for their preps.

[@BalmainBucko]

BTW..SYT ran quicker sectionals than Frankel running through the 8f with 2 more furlongs to run, that is something worth pointing out..I do acknowledge Frankel beat some good horses over the 10f..but I don't think he contested a truly run 10f race? with 3 or 4 other horses who can run along the first 5f in 12's even..slowly run 10f races will always suit horses with a turn off foot!

[@amansalhotra8329]

frankel frankel frankel the horse never left his comfort zone .

[@sp319]

No I am not agreeing with what you have been saying. You have been saying that the handicapper would weight Frankel 8lb above MJ and that those weights would see the two horses evened, and that you wold back MJ. You used the hypothetical weights to prove that there is not 18 lb between them, when in reality they are .

[@frankpharsec1]

Hello Guitar.Been back to the U.S to catch up with family and friends.No news of Violence yet but thevibes are very good and I think we have got great value in the ante post odds.Great news about Frankel being rated the best since '77,thoroughly deserved and about time the agency lowered other horses who's form is clearly over rated.Good news of Black Caviar also being the highest rated mare in ages.How did Poet get on?