UNMARKED Speed Vans Spotted. (How ironic)

publications.p...
SUPPORT ME:
buy.stripe.com...
Address for PAID FORMAL ADVICE *ONLY*: [e-mail]
Disclaimer: Neither this nor any other video, may be taken as legal advice. I accept no liability whatever for any reliance placed upon it, as there is no contract between us and I am not instructed by you.
For formal advice, please contact [e-mail].
💌 Become a channel member to access stripes and perks!
/ @blackbeltbarrister
LAW FAQS
• Common Law
CONSUMER LAW PLAYLIST:
• Consumer Law
TREE LAW PLAYLIST:
• Tree Law Miniseries
ROAD TRAFFIC LAW PLAYLIST:
• Road Traffic Law
FAMILY LAW PLAYLIST:
• Family Law
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
I'm a Barrister of England and Wales.
Videos for educational guidance only, Always seek advice before taking action. Videos on my channel are not legal advice and should not be taken as such. I accept no liability for any reliance placed upon the content of these videos or references, therein.
#blackbeltbarrister #lawyer #barrister
Description contains affiliate links; I will occasionally earn commissions from qualifying purchases or leads generated.
Description may contain affiliate or sponsored links, for which we may receive commissions or payment.

[@pajownik]

Exceeding speed limit by 2Mph is far less an offence than tailgating and intimidating.

[@IvyMike.]

In my 30 years driving experience, the police are by far, the worst tailgaters and generally bad, lazy drivers, my defence is to slow down for all tailgaters, especially the police. See how well that goes in court, "He slowed down, your honour, to avoid an accident!"

[@AdrianNelson1507]

This happened to me on new years eve, I'm sure they were fishing and it came to nothing but it doesn't aid my cynicism

[@AdrianNelson1507]

(Leicestershire)

[@rippy123456]

I must admit I would have thought the same as the driver..

[@davidstickland3420]

@@IvyMike. I had a marked police car pull out in front of me at our local garage. I had to brake to avoid hitting them. This garage is where they go to stock up on all the healthy stuff like pies, chocky bars, etc during their shift.

[@chrisblay]

They knew exactly what they were doing. Intimidated the driver in front to speed up, then pulled them over. Who in their right mind is going to stop and call the Police, when they are already feeling threatened by a following vehicle? Also, if the area is known for crime, that makes it even worse.

[@user-mv5zt8qd9l]

Dialing 999 in an emergency where you don't feel it is safe to stop (as I understand it) is permitted as an exception to the no-phones rule. I would definitely keep moving and dial 999 if I were being clearly and persistently followed by a stranger, too...

[@petersmitham8273]

If the cops can get revenue from doing fuck all then they will;, if it takes more than a slight effort to catch a real criminal then they won’t bother….it’s getting like America in the 50’s …

[@stuartb4525]

@@user-mv5zt8qd9l Probably do them for that as well.

[@jimmyhughes5392]

blatantly mimicking the behavior/technique of car jackers.

[@damianleah6744]

If this the case, they will get found out as so many motorists have dash cams front and rear these days.

[@unclecarl5406]

I was a postman for most of my life. When we started really early in the morning I had to be driving to work at 3.30am. I lost count of how many times unmarked police cars came racing up behind me. Essentially bumper to bumper. Revving their engines, trying to intimidate me to accelerate away for my own safety. Occasionally I'd pull over to let them pass. That's when they pull up, get out, and confidently swagger over to my car. They were always so deflated seeing my uniform and realising I was on my way to work. Didn't stop them warning me that I didn't signal at a junction, or slow down enough etc etc. They always need their little power trips. We all suffered this over the years. Especially early on a Saturday morning.

[@Dave-hu5hr]

It's what happens when you give an idiot a high viz vest at the very least.. Imagine giving them a badge too. 🥔!

[@hannahjames3180]

Goading? I've heard how sly tactics are used to create crimes. I think there was a story about undercover police driving on motorways and watching business vehicles. They would call the company number on the side of the vehicle and watch the driver answer their mobile, then they would pull them over.

[@mattcatlow47]

As one of these myself it’s a shame some left such a poor impression, however doesn’t mean that we all do it so I do wish people would stop generalising. The few bad apples don’t mean we are all arses, same in any industry

[@hannahjames3180]

@@mattcatlow47 My daddy says the police can't be everywhere. So, I say we need to find a sure fire and simplified way to ensure safety. I am sick of seeing people not slowing back down to 30 when coming to a roundabout at a dual carriageway to go straight over. I have lost count of the vehicles I seen this week with numberplates so filthy they are unreadable! One such vehicle nearly collided with me as they drove on the pavement around a vehicle with flashing beacons not considering people wearing hi-vis working there. A builder witnessed it. I know many police cars are up and down those roads but see nothing and have not thought to utilise their social media to put out a warning on dirty plates. 3 incidents I have had in the last 3 weeks in the same area. Am I just unlucky?

[@unclecarl5406]

@@hannahjames3180 On a similar note. We have a whole stretch of road outside where we live that has double yellow lines with curb blips. That means no dropping off, no picking up, no waiting, no stopping. However there is a Macdonalds here too. So cars park up all the time, half on the pavement, to go in for their burger.. Including police cars. They just don't care.

[@shadowdancer5x5]

I've had an unmarked car try and intimidate me into speeding. Was quite a few years ago, road between Skipton and Kendal. I knew he was an unmarked car as I had just passed him finishing up with another biker, lights on etc. He caught up with me after a village and sat on my back tyre for miles, trying to push me into speeding. Because I knew he was an unmarked, I stubbornly stuck to the speed limit. He was following me through overtakes, I thought quite dangerously. They're dangerous and a law unto themselves. Not to mention total hypocrites.

[@derekheeps1244]

You should have made one of your overtakes neatly and tucked in so there was no space for him to pull in behind you , or slowed down until an oncoming car made it impossible for him to continue and then neatly finished your overtake in front of the other vehicle .

[@peterthomas5792]

I had an unmarked car goad me into speeding. Got me up to 90+ mph in a 60. Pulled me over when I slowed to let him overtake & said I was driving very well but ought to slow down a bit. He knew he was goading me & I think just wanted to play. Let me off with a smile. There are some good ones out there...

[@NathanielGarro-ru7du]

I think the word you're looking for is "wankers"!

[@BillDavies-ej6ye]

@@peterthomas5792 But he wasn't one of them.

[@gosurc1860]

@@BillDavies-ej6yeyeah does that make hurting someone ok as long as you smile

[@doghouseriley4732]

There certainly used to be a document which I believe was issued by ACPO that stated that all "speed vans" had to be marked. This was so that the public understood that it was not a revenue collecting exercise but for accident prevention. During the early 2000s, Nottingham Constabulary (and/or their civilian contrator) started using unmarked vans, particularly in the Markham Moor area. One staff member received a fixed penalty notice and contacted me with dashcam footage showing that no temporary signs had been laid out and that the van was unmarked. They denied that this was the case but fell silent when I told them that I had dashcam footage to prove this. The driver received a subsequent letter stating that no further action was going to be taken. I am presuming that these guidelines are no longer relevant?

[@alexr8996]

I believe its guidance however in law nothing says they have to be marked, or even have signs. It's mostly just something people expect. A court likely wouldn't throw it out as the offence still occurred and shouldn't have done regardless of a marked van or not. As long as the police have evidence it occurred.

[@pedclarkemobile]

Different counties/ police forces have different standards.

[@alexr8996]

@@pedclarkemobile That's local policy. Doesn't mean they're legally required.

[@pedclarkemobile]

@@alexr8996 my reply does not mention law or requirements.

[@alexr8996]

@@pedclarkemobile I know it doesn't.....

[@razorlicks7929]

The camera vans here in Northamptonshire have a full grey vinyl wrap applied but if you check the registration they come back from the DVLA as white on the log book. The grey colour is clearly there to help them blend in. See what happens if you drive around with a car where the colour doesn't match the log book...

[@derekheeps1244]

it is an offence to change the colour of a vehicle and not record the change of colour . Ka-ching !

[@stevehutchison4018]

You do not need to notify the DVLA about a wrap as the colour change isn’t permanent.

[@isthatujeebus]

As he says^. If the change isn't permanent i.e. paint, then it doesn't need to be recorded. Insane, but there you go.

[@trueriver1950]

I think that it's illegal not too change the registered colour when you wrap a vehicle - I had to when I painted my first car a different colour (Canary yellow, since you ask)

[@karlstokes9426]

Just read on a wrapping company's website a colour change wrap has to be registered with DVLA since 2017

[@timlong7289]

It is interesting to note that it is acceptable to use a mobile phone to call 999 when driving. Perhaps when faced with this situation, people should dial 999 and report the car as driving dangerously. No doubt they will then try to pull you over for using a mobile device, but too late, you've already got in a report of them creating the dangerous situation. "Do you know why I've pulled you over sir?" "As it happens I am on the phone to 999 reporting you for dangerous driving".

[@hens0w]

*and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop just pull over so the BMW can block you in so the occupants can get out and assault your car

[@timlong7289]

@@hens0w I thought more about this and I would probably first try my standard response for tailgaters - washing my windscreen. If they are close behind they cop a load of soapy water on their windscreen and this normally makes people instinctively back off. If they didn't, then I would probably just start slowing down to well below the speed limit and if they still sat there, I would be on my phone calling 999.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

You'd be arrested, your 999 report would disappear along with any footage that prooves your point. In theory you have certain rights but in reality police just ignore them and are totally above the law themselves.

[@timlong7289]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Possibly, but I'd have a record of the 999 call in my phone history so the police would have some explaining to do if the call recording went missing.

[@deang5622]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 Given how many occasions (9 times) the Police had to stop Met Police officer David Carrick and didn't punish him at all for his wrong doing, it seems highly probable any complaint made about a fellow servicing police officer would, as you suggest, disappear and not be actioned. They look after their own, that much is highly obvious. The only thing that might stop the complaint disappearing is the IT system could potentially block the police from deleting the 999 incident record. The complaint would have been entered into the system and the police didn't identify until a little later that the perpetrator was serving police officer and the complaint has already been recorded. So then the police officers operating the system are at the mercy of the functionality that is provided by the system. These systems tend to have good auditing functionality - changes made are logged in a permanent record, so if a police officer tried to change the details in the complaint in order to make it appear it is not worth investigating then that change should be picked up.

[@ozzybiker1013]

Apparently speed cameras were there to be highly visible to slow traffic down in accident hotspots and make the roads safer, whereas now they seem to be there to catch drivers speeding and fine them as a revenue stream rather than trying to slow the traffic down.

[@kal9001]

That's all they ever were. Most motorists speed, and they know this is a revenue stream. Also helps the insurers out being being able to charge more when you get 3 points. Putting Police High-viz Livery on them was their hand being forced by various campaign groups to follow their own 'logic' when they tried to deny they were revenue cameras. I guess they are empowered now and don't need to maintain the lie any more.

[@TIMMEH19991]

The police and authorities actually WANT you to speed so they can then extract your money.

[@googlygoink]

Should be both a deterrent and a revenue stream. Have enough unmarked ones with no fixed locations like parked vans and drivers who might speed will either be fined a tonne (which is a good thing) or stop speeding anywhere (which is a good thing). Don't speed and you won't get fined, and it's safer for everyone, very simple. Also make fines means tested as a % of income, and have it scale based on how many times you have been fined in the last 12 months. This particular case with the police van "tailgating" is super dangerous in itself though, so definitely shouldn't happen.

[@brownwarrior6867]

You only get caught speeding if you actually speed.

[@233kosta]

Council's broke, grasping at straws now.

[@robg5958]

A very informative video, thank you. I was charged with a criminal offence in the 1980s and my Barrister tried to apply for an abuse of process. However, he was unsuccessful, as it is usually an uphill battle to prove abuse of process by the police or C P S. Ultimately, I was found not guilty and since that time I have never been on the wrong end of the police or justice systems. Best advice for speeders is to simply not speed. I really enjoy your videos; great insight!

[@mattsandford]

Yeah I always wanted to live in a police state where there's a camera on every street and secret vans ensuring that I can't ever do anything that the government doesn't allow. Really makes life feel like it's worth living. I also HATE that they never seem to do a damn thing about tailgating.

[@lillymay3632]

Rear view dash cam would have been useful in the case of the car being followed by what turned out to be an unmarked police car. Their abuse of their position would have been evident.

[@gordon861]

Didn't really need a rear view dashcam, the police were nice enough to record the whole incident for you, and that could have been shown to the court.

[@TheJon2442]

@@gordon861 more than likely, that it would have not been available in court.... As in due to human error deleted!!!!!!

[@alexanderevanska4274]

@@gordon861 And that video would accidentally be deleted/lost.

[@G4RY1159]

@@TheJon2442 Thot the very same

[@richardgallagher4880]

* Pro tip: the break pedal can be used to collect forensic evidence on the back of your car.

[@Gruxxan]

surely tailgating aggressively is itself illegal

[@tony_w839]

tailgating is illegal, aggressive or not.

[@Gruxxan]

@@tony_w839 aggressively, as in, conspicuously following

[@Wolfy11188]

@WalterSobchak That's why the whole story seems sketchy to me, he literally said in the story they have footage of them speeding which would have obviously shown them tailgating and following the car. Their evidence for prosecution is also your evidence for defence.

[@saltyaces8621]

@@Gruxxan tailgating, regardless of manner or intention, is illegal

[@soundseeker63]

@@Wolfy11188 Thats why it's a pity this case didn't go to court and the driver just accepted the points, because the police footage of the driver "speeding" (and only just!) would also have shown how badly the police themselves were driving and I doubt a conviction could have been made taking that into account. Of course had he/she had a rear facing dash cam the police probably would have dropped the case immediately. This really is not good PR for the police force in question AT ALL!

[@Mora41]

if it's about safety.. then remove the cash part of the fine.....

[@jamble7k]

@WalterSobchak it's a revenue generator, always has been

[@yammyyam9382]

But there’s inherent issues with that. If you’re eligible for a course, it’s an external company and that costs money to run (at a profit of course). The pay-off being is that you don’t get fined and points and avoid the higher insurance premiums. You go to court and get found guilty, you get fined+points+court costs+insurance goes up. If the court decided not to fine and add court costs, you can bet your last bread crumb the insurance companies would bleed you.

[@evelghostrider]

They are no longer called " fines " but rather penalties... Go Learn why this was changed and you will educate yourself some what legally for the future.. For the love of God don't type it into Google..

[@yammyyam9382]

Definitely still called fines in the UK, whether it’s criminal or motoring. The ‘penalty’ for motoring offences is points+fine or just a fine.

[@evelghostrider]

@Yammy Yam it's legally most definitely not called fines. People assume this is the case. But when you read up on it you learn why it's now called penalties and not fines. In legal wording and terms and settings a person can easily get out of a fine, because a fine is not legal in many applications as it was brought to light. So courts changed the term from fine to penalties. People just never bothered to educate themselves and still assume its a fine.

[@FaanBoerseun]

Infotainment units, radios, eating and drinking, passengers (especially children), pets etc. may all be considered as 'distractions' and 'banned'. There's plenty of laws enforceable for not driving with 'due care and attention' rather than specifically banning items.

[@grumpy8413]

I only have a problem with the speed vans that park right under the speed restriction sign going out of the restricted area, where is is perfectly normal to increase your speed slightly, when there is no danger. This is usually in rural country areas and the end of a village, normally going down a hill.

[@Anonymous-gu8tk]

A friend had exactly the same situation many years ago (MK4 Cortina for clarity). Same MO; his wife was driving late at night and car came up behind and started tailgating them. My friend told her to keep calm and pull off at the next next junction and stop. She did just that, pulled off and hit the brakes. Police were so close, they rear ended the Cortina. Wrote both cars off and caused whiplash injuries to my friend and his wife. This was well before dash cams, so it was their word against the police. They did eventually get compensation and the police driver was charged, but I can't remember what with. Ultimately I think it came down to they were to close so it was deemed the police at fault. At the time of the accident they were subject to a lot of intimidation by the police at the scene.

[@gruffrossi5420]

this shows they aint changed even with camaras dont scare me police but most aint like me its law if you hit some one up the arse yer waz 2 close ive done it buy i ride a motercyle the police are more dodgy than teeths least they only want yer money ploice want money and yer freedom know yer rights an video every 2 weeks ago got pulled over wouldent let the serch my inside pockets let em pat me down but have pull me in to do a proper serch soon as they found out i would be awkward and not bet come sit in car yer dont have to its not law in the end after them fishing an me takeing the piss by giveing stoopid answers going round an round they got a call an jus went of i made sure i giveem the walk of shame care more about revenue than us who pay them it waz coz he waz in a bmw bet he wernt white

[@glennbartlett416]

My point precisely

[@casinodelonge]

Surely a rear end collision is a strict liability offence and by definition the fault of the following vehicle?

[@pablopicaro7649]

Common scam by Rats in USA

[@gruffrossi5420]

@@casinodelonge wot I thought that as well mean yer to near insurance won't pay out

[@jfilm7466]

If it becomes illegal to talk handsfree on the phone in the car, then will it also be illegal to talk to your guests in your car?

[@terrybrazier1869]

Yes, I was thinking this myself, talking "hands free" is no different to talking to a passenger, or as I often do, sing along to the cd which is playing. Where will it all end?

[@Wolfy11188]

If anything talking to passengers inside your car is more of a distraction than the hands free as you're tempted to look at them every now and again during the conversation. Eventually loads of people should just get the same radios the police use while they're driving just to prove how hypocritical it is.

[@57thorns]

No. because the passenger is part of the situation. They are aware of the situation. Of cours, if you do a movie chat turning your heads to look at each other, that is another story completely.

[@57thorns]

As for the singing along, if you are playing loudly and headbanging, to the detriment of your attention to the environment, you are of course guilty of driving unsafely.

[@thunderbug8640]

@@57thorns So what youre actually saying here is looking ahead and talking isnt the same as looking ahead and talking. Well done 🤣

[@derekheeps1244]

Police advice on this situation , where you are followed by an unmarked car , even if it activates blue lights is , if possible phone 999 and tell the operator what is happening , also do not stop - drive to the nearest police station . In this situation , the police driver should be disciplined for dangerous driving ( too close ) and also for placing the victim in a state of fear and alarm . I hope this went to court .

[@andrewkingdon2000]

That's what should happen in an ideal world but would the police play along once they see that you are trying to police the police? I suspect not. I'm pretty sure they're going to escalate it and find some fabricated reason to ram your car as you were driving "suspiciously and failing to respond to their instructions to pull over". Just managing your stress levels under these circumstances with all the thoughts and possibilities and scenarios running through your head is next to impossible. So yes, your suggestions are nice in theory but utterly impossible in practice. PS don't dismiss the ram comments I made. I spoke to a traffic cop once and they actually enjoy that part of the job.

[@georgecaplin9075]

I don’t think the government can both allow the sale of new vehicles with what amounts to an iPad bolted to the dashboard, then make hands-free illegal. There needs to be a consistent approach.

[@dougsaunders8109]

Spot on, no going back to speedo and oil pressure gauge

[@adventcliff2040]

These new cars should be illegal because putting all controls on a screen makes you take eyes off the road.

[@andyxox4168]

@@dougsaunders8109 … most people wouldn’t know the purpose of an oil pressure gauge nowadays... … Better to let the ‘computer’ look after everything and stop the vehicle and pop up a red light when it goes wrong!

[@thewaywardgrape3838]

Just like how the government gave road tax incentives for people to buy eco-engines, then just moved the requirements for people to get into certain brackets. Or how for decades, it was 'petrol=bad' so we bought diesels, now diesel's are bad and petrols aren't.

[@kathrynwhitby9799]

@@thewaywardgrape3838 even EV's are bad now. (IE, loss of tax revenue)

[@Luton-Mick]

If only the man had of had a rear facing DVR and caught this dangerous clown tailgating him he'd of had a very good argument for the cop to be the collecting points and a desk job.

[@robg521]

The was one in the news in the 1980’s, I woman driving alone through the country a night with an unmarked car tailgating her [so close she couldn’t it’s front tyres] she tried turning off onto another route and it kept following her, so she panicked and sped off, the car behind chased her and started flashing it head lights, she kept going until she got into town and drove straight to the main police station. She jumped out of the car and ran into the station and the driver behind jumped out and followed her in. She is there shaking like a leaf in panic screaming for help and the fella following her reveals that he is a cop and wants to do her for speeding. [it made the newspapers because she complained but I don’t recall the outcome]

[@dustybiker9602]

i had this years ago while riding my motorcycle but was an off duty police officer in his personal car about 2ft from my back wheel. i only got away with it due to the fact i had a camera and he was off duty. i pressed charges and he lost his job this was blackpool area

[@keancv]

D-B well done serves the bar steward right

[@Whitewolf76802]

Excellent. More people like you needed.

[@Beatlefan67]

Excellent!

[@_Mentat]

Nice.

[@fetchstixRHD]

I don't know whether I should be surprised or not that there are so many stories from motorcycle riders of this happening, but doing that with the intention to try and catch them speeding to get away from you is insane behaviour and charges absolutely should be pressed each and every time... bad enough for someone in a car, insanely dangerous for a motorcycle on so many levels...

[@HeresMo]

Same thing happened to me. I was allegedly driving between 5-10mph over limit on a dual carriage way at 2am in surrey. Unmarked car was on my tail. I said the same thing I feared for my safety however once they checked my license and insurance they let me go. The fact that I was driving a sports car and if I wanted to speed I could have easily got away might have helped and the fact that I owned that car for over 10 years probably helped my case. They suggested that if I was in fear for my safety I should have called 999. I said that would have given me a different charge as we are not allowed to use phone while driving. They said if you are in fear for your safety then you can call 999.

[@jamiekent1970]

Well, if you are adjusting the AC you are distracted from the road, if you change a radio station you are distracted from the road, having a conversation with passenger you are distracted from the road… are they going to ban all of these too … 2-3 mph over the speed limit is a bit petty 0100 -0200 in the morning…. Assuming there was no other road users or pedestrians its boarder line ridiculous…🤬

[@inquisitivemind2465]

I put my mobile in the boot when I am driving a distance away from home and have still been pulled over and accused of using a phone while driving, the copper looked really pissed off that my phone was in the boot and therefore I couldn't possibly of been using it.

[@kathryn-anon]

I think that there is definitely grounds for unmarked police vehicles trying to catch speeders. I live in South Korea and most cars here have built in GPS that announce when you come up on speed cameras. Every cab and friend's car I've sat in, they speed and speed and speed until the GPS starts dinging to warn about the camera, at which point they (and basically all other drivers on the road) abruptly slow significantly down to avoid the fine. That's honestly more dangerous than if speed was just maintained. When I'm home in Canada, the same thing happens with marked police vehicles. People see the cop car, they slow down and hide the phone until they're past the cops and then immediately pick it up again. If people are not driving responsibly, then it's their own fault when they get caught-- be it by camera, marked, or unmarked police vehicles. That said, the unmarked vehicle riding this cars butt to essentially force them to speed was incredibly reckless and unacceptable, especially from a police officer.

[@NotALot-xm6gz]

“Nice unmarked speed camera van you have there. Be a real shame if it suddenly caught fire.”

[@AndrewNeilBaird]

I was followed by a grey Peugeot 405 late at night to my workshop , which was down a single track farm road . Fearing this was a robbery attempt of my tools or something I blocked them at the narrowest point , jumped out and ran to the workshop , dived in through the single door I had forgot to double lock with the padlock (hence my journey at 1am) got my FAC air rifle with its scope sights and went back outside shouting warnings I was armed and ready to fire at the intruders . Who turned out to be plain clothes police , After a tense few minutes they agreed to back away and allow me to phone in for confirmation of their ID . It was all very stressful and they did not feel tailgating a car , then following it with the set high dipbeams to partially blind the driver in front , in to a secluded area was in any way wrong or something. I think they are idiots sometimes.

[@memoman1962]

If the Police are gathering evidence covertly in unmarked vans or cars, is this not surveillance under the Regulation Of Investigatory Powers Act in which case they would require authorisation to gain evidence against a specific person or persons ?

[@spencereagle1118]

I thought some guidance was issued that stipulated speed camera vans carry specific and identifiable markings?

[@keithparkinson6170]

In recent road works on the M6 in Lancashire,there was what looked like a highways work van parked inside the cones only when you were passing it did you see the rear camera window ,no markings saying camera van and around Sunderland there's one complete with orange flashing lights just like the council vans have.

[@spicy110]

To be clear I am not defending phone use in cars. I ride motorcycles and do not have a car licence. but if you say you don't think people should use hands free while driving, are you also saying you should not talk to passengers in your car? And if you are treating those two things differently, why?

[@johnboy5156]

The police was taunting drivers in the North West of the UK in the 80s & 90s , hoping drivers would accelerate away . The police was using unmarked high performance cars , ie Lotus sunbeam .RS Escort . The police cars would have two black boxes on the parcel shelf reading Police Stop .... The police force was told to stop this tactic immediately.......

[@markpaul1154]

If this is true about an unmarked speed camera van , then as this is a commercial vehicle someone may want to ask the police why they are ignoring this and have they specifically mentioned to their insurer that the vehicle is in contravention of Section 05.2.3 of Chapter 8 part 2 of the Traffic Signs Manual specifies that vehicles stopping on roads should use the following specifications for chapter 8 Markings to ensure that it is safe and visible Rear reflective markings on cars and vans should be upward facing chevrons in alternating red and yellow stripes. Each chevron stripe should be no less than 150mm in width and angled upwards between 45 and 60 degrees The red stripes are to provide maximum night visibility and therefore must be of retro-reflective material The yellow stripes should be non-reflective and fluorescent, contrasting with the red to provide sufficient daytime and dusk visibility. Without obscuring windows, lighting and reg plates, the chevrons should cover as much of the rear as possible.

[@LewisTcakes]

go for it!

[@noneofyoubusiness4895]

I got entrapped once. It was night time and as I left town a car started following me, I couldn't see what kind of car it was. I turned right down a narrow road, over a railway bridge. I was driving quite fast, but I wasn't speeding. Suddenly this car was right up my backside wobbling widely left and right! I thought "I've got a live one here!" and accelerated to get away from them, unfortunately this involved going into a 40 zone, at which point they turned their siren on and pulled me over. I maintain, I would not have have been going that fast if it wasn't for their erratic behaviour, which, is exactly what they thought of me and my driving. Mind they did search my car for the drugs they thought I must be on, and found my licence which I had been missing for ages, so swings and roundabouts!

[@alexandergrey5913]

Had similar once coming of a night shift at 5am on a Sunday morning outside Romsey. I came to a roundabout with the unmarked following on my tail so I went round twice pulled of safe quick to verge ! After spotting the driver. They had followed I for several miles ! Turns out I had brake light out. Would of preferred they just pulled me over to inform! I said thank you but also told them I thought they were of less repute !

[@hazzard8760]

I had exactly this on the dual carriageway A30 west of Honiton in 2016 at 10.30pm. I became aware of a dark vehicle (sporty looking Volvo) close behind me who had joined on a slip road and accelerated to catch up. After a couple of minutes I indicated on the left as a gesture for the car to overtake rather than tailgate. It didn't and followed me for at least 5 minutes making me very intimidated and nervous. It mimicked every move I made. Now I drive a car known for the ability to reach high speeds but stuck to 70 - 72mph. 4 miles from Exeter my speed increased simply by virtue of a downhill stretch that would seem ridiculous to apply the brakes on a clear dual carriageway with little traffic and good forward visibility. Moments later... I was bombarded with all manor of bright flashing blue and white lights from behind. I pulled over to be stopped by 2 female police officers for speeding claiming I had reached 76mph. They were surprised to see a 72 year old man with a base ball hat (i have skin cancer on my head) driving a 6 month old BMW M3 with a blemish free licence and a 55 year no claims insurance record rather than a 28 year old lad with a chequered driving history they proably expected. 3 penalty points and £100 for speeding.. Bit**es... go hound criminals not old men not harming anyone.

[@ernesthogan681]

What happened to the 10% plus 2 guidelines?

[@AlmostLastJedi]

I saw one the other day by Litchfield on the A38, it was an unmarked van next to roadworks with amber flashing lights on top to make it look like a workers vehicle. However when I got closer you could blatantly see the camera sticking out of the back. It’s a good job in an average speed zone that I either set the cruise control or the speed limiter.

[@mo.BDV-49]

how about intimidating behaviour on the part of the police in the BMW

[@doc3row]

A cop pulled in behind me as I left a pub at closing time and tailgated me for about 1½ miles. He eventually pulled me in for "driving straight, rather than following lanes"around a roundabout (as recommended in the police driving manual when there's no traffic) and "clearly clipping a kerb". But basically he was waiting for an excuse to breathalyse me.

[@grosom31]

I'm sure it was tested where someone on the phone using a handset vs a hands free setup somewhere in the US and they came to the conclusion it was as bad talking on a hands free setup, as it was holding the handset.. Obviously texting wasn't included in that as it's clear texting while you drive is extraordinarily dangerous.

[@robertburrows6612]

All police vehicles should be clearly marked, accept when there are need for covert operations. I've been confused on serval occasions when an unmarked police answering an emergency call with sirens going and stupid blue lights in the car radiator grill flash, , police in my mind are abusing there powers . Police are there TO PREVENT CRIME So some of your remarks a take offense to

[@lukeorlando4814]

Entrapment heh. ( not in the U.K. ) I remember when the police would use random ordinary unmarked cars and put them at the side of the road with the bonnet up to make it look like it had broken down. The police would leave it there unmanned for days with cameras set up. Eventually they were forced to give up on the practice as people were getting smart about it and taking the registration plates off the trap car. Fixing said plates to their own car and the. Speeding past the camera.

[@Richy-skys]

I was riding a motorcycle on M5, centre lane, 70mph and a Renault GT 'something' caught up in the outside lane, clearly giving it some beans with a Vauxhall Insigna close behind. I thought they were racing and I was tempted to have some fun and out accelerate them! Lucky for me I kept the throttle back for, as they passed me the Vauxhall lit up his blue lights and pulled the Renault over.

[@jong3461]

Shouldn't the police car driver also have points, as car was close to limit and probably was under it before they started tailgating. Which meant they were also speeding for little reason.

[@fetchstixRHD]

Don't forget "causing, permitting, inciting" too...

[@Kottesque]

Two or three miles over the speed limit could be down to something as simple as new wheels with different tyres on your vehicle, which would alter the originally factory set Speedometer. The violation is not prosecutable in Ireland for this very reason, which is why the Gardai do not come after you unless you have exceeded the limit by at least 8KPH. I am surprised they even pulled the driver for this!

[@_chrisr_]

Over here in the 90s the Princess Royal got fined for driving at 43mph in a 40 limit.

[@sidwills]

I guarantee no modern speedometer under-reports the speed

[@_chrisr_]

@sidwills no, all the cars I have driven over report by about 10%, when above 30mph, which is in line with the agreement with motor vehicle manufacturers I understand.

[@voyagesdedavid]

Thank you for not saying 'R versus...' Gets my goat when people word it like that. 🙂

[@flybobbie1449]

My sister and brother in law experienced this. Car behind kept coming up close, but sister said keep to speed limit, allow idiot to pass. After 5 minutes car overtook, paused alongside, realised it was a family, was plain police car with uniformed coppers and it sped off.

[@davidrobertson5700]

Tailgating by the cops is just as illegal as any other motorist doing it. Slam the brakes on and let his airbag say hello

[@tony_w839]

brake checking maybe illegal.

[@LickorishAllsorts]

Had to avaoid hitting the black cat, "officer".

[@davidrobertson5700]

w watch the copper say that after a face full of airbag. And a nice bit of compensation for being whiplash by the copper who was not driving with due care and attention and there go 10 points on his licence and his job. Sorted.

[@CASHSEC]

I maintain that to drive exactly under a specific speed limit is not possible just as it is not possible to control a sneeze. It is unsafe to keep monitoring your speed. This is even more difficult at lower speeds. Its the car that needs improvement by reading out the speeds in 10 step increments. Just like a pilot gets readings of hight above runway. 100,40,20.

[@JerryWalker001]

I was fined for speeding about 15 years ago. I was driving up the A1 in the UK and it was a dual carriageway that I had driven up thousands of times. On the exit of a particular roundabout the speed limit went from 40 to 50mph but the little round sign indicating this was almost always hidden by the central reservation trees. About half a mile further it went to national speed limit with another sign. What they did one day was simply remove the (hidden) 50mph sign and sat an unmarked speed trap just after it. Thousands of drivers (including me) were caught driving at 50mph in the 'new' 40 zone. There was no reason for the change, there was never an accident there, no houses etc. It was just a money making scam like most of so called traffic calming schemes. Year ago the police were there to keep order with their presence, These days they are simply out to catch people for breaking dumb rules.

[@grahamehadden4320]

The best technique when being followed is to slow down until it is obvious to the follower that they have been rumbled. This has been used by myself when I believed I was been followed.

[@Stuntman707]

If I feel really intimidated I’ll slow down and put my hazards on. People usually back off then.

[@MrDblStop]

@@Stuntman707 Don't put your hazards on when you're driving, it's against the Highway Code. 116: You MUST NOT use hazard warning lights while driving or being towed unless you are on a motorway or unrestricted dual carriageway and you need to warn drivers behind you of a hazard or obstruction ahead. Only use them for long enough to ensure that your warning has been observed. Law RVLR reg 27

[@davidanderson7138]

I had a unmarked police car tailgating me late at night in a 50mph speed limit through road works, obviously “pushing” me to speed.

[@geordiewishart1683]

A friend of mine is a police man who often patrols in unmarked cars. He concedes he is a bit bipolar when it comes to driving behind members of the public. He is often busy and is keen to respond to calls quickly, albeit the circs of the call may not justify him using the police exemption for speeding. So he is keen to get there quickly, using the max speed that the road speed limit allows. He is frustrated then if the car in front twigs on that a police car is behind it and so the driver slows down. On the other hand, he feels annoyed if when not en route to a call, he drives behind a car which is speeding, even if not by much. Police are human too, I guess.

[@kpopfan674]

@@geordiewishart1683 They're not humans, they're automatons

[@brianmullin8324]

I had this happen to me about 15 years ago so put truck into reverse and put the accelerator to the floor and reversed into the Sierra that was behind me turned out it was a cop car had my day in court got £600 compensation for harassment.

[@royshaft]

The plod got me on the exit of a 30 mph to 50 mph , literally yards from the transition. Well done them , crime solved .

[@Zodliness]

Do we have to drive in silence nowadays? - If drivers are considered 'distracted' during hands-free phone conversations, talking to passengers and listening to voice navigation must also be considered equally distracting.

[@Nick-vl7df]

The old bill would claim it's an area where drugs are sold as the reason to stop him . If they had been questioned about driving so close, they would just lie and claim they weren't.

[@gerryquinn5224]

These vans are more likely to be a forerunner of the "15 minute cities and towns" N.P.R. Cameras. A spray can of black paint is a must for every motorist.

[@MichaelDavey18]

There are specific guidelines and regulations regarding the placement of speed camera vans and the use of warning signs. These guidelines are provided by the relevant law enforcement agencies and vary depending on the jurisdiction within the United Kingdom. While the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 does not specifically mention the placement of warning signs or the siting of the van, it is addressed in the guidance and operational procedures set by the authorities. In the UK, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and later the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) have provided guidelines on the use of speed camera vans. These guidelines, known as the "ACPO Speed Enforcement Policy" or the "NPCC Speed Enforcement Guidance," outline the practices and procedures for the deployment of speed camera vans. According to these guidelines, speed camera vans are usually positioned in locations where there is a history of speeding or a high incidence of accidents. The aim is to prioritize safety and target areas where speeding poses a significant risk to road users. The specific locations are determined based on factors such as accident data, traffic flow, and consultation with local authorities. Regarding warning signs, the guidelines generally state that when a mobile speed camera van is in operation, advance warning signs should be used to inform motorists of the presence of speed enforcement. These signs are typically placed before the camera van to provide drivers with a reasonable opportunity to reduce their speed and comply with the speed limit. The precise details of the signage requirements, including the size, design, and distance from the camera van, may vary between different police forces or local authorities. It is advisable to consult the specific guidelines and policies of the relevant law enforcement agency or local authority responsible for speed enforcement in your area to understand the precise requirements and restrictions related to warning signs and the siting of speed camera vans. So not following their own OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES is a breach of proceeds in and of itself. Warning signs must clearly be placed in front of the van as per their own operational procedures. So I'd have to suggest that yes, using speed camera vans without markings or posting any warnings signs IS entrapment and a breach of their own operational procedures.

[@terenceoakes4244]

What about the waffen ss behaviour with Charline downs 'and Alex Belafield ' you cannot trust them Isn't it an offence to tailgate

[@peterdavis3934]

As a company we stopped employees using phones whilst driving including hands free because, we believed it could lead to an accident and the company could be considered jointly liable. So we introduced a system for employees to stop regularly maybe have a tea/coffee and call in to the office or other business contacts. It worked for everyone and business journeys we believe were safer.👍

[@rexbarron4873]

Driving a few miles over the limit in 2am Newtown should be actively encouraged as you might hit a drug dealer.

[@archiebf4524]

This brings up an interesting question, if police presence is enough to deter crime then why would they why would they go undercover. Surely the streets are safer if they're preventing crime rather than trying to catch out criminals

[@stuartbailey9941]

Police tailgating. The Highway Code suggests, at 30mph your car will take approximately 23 metres to come to a stop - 9 meters thinking distance and 14 meters braking distance. Therefore if you had to do an emergency stop and they crashed into the back of your vehicle I wonder who would be at fault?

[@richardjames4632]

WTF did they take the three points? Should have resulted in an Immediate complaint to the police authority! Utter filth.

[@matthewoconnell4700]

Police following incredibly close, especially at night trying to get you to go faster is really common, I've had it several times.

[@oldgreybeard2507]

For goodness sake how on earth are the police going to pay for their Christmas parties without fines. Oh and getting brownie points

[@That0Homeless0Guy]

If someone is riding your bumper just go 5mph under the speed limit then slowly bring your speed down 5mph every couple of minutes. If they're trying to push you to go faster they'll eventually pass and if they are police they can't do you for being under the speed limit and will probably move on.

[@Chris-fy8rk]

Wrong. Driving to slow on a clear road could result in a Careless driving charge

[@That0Homeless0Guy]

@@Chris-fy8rk Riding someones bumper is careless driving. "I was fearful of a collision with the car behind me riding my bumper your honour, I figured if they were to continue and cause an accident I'd feel much safer it happening at a lower speed. I also assumed they wanted to pass and weren't comfortable doing it at speed so I continued slowing down to make that easier for them seemed the safest thing to do, given their dangerous behavior your honour."

[@Beckiner67]

Listening to the video and reading the comments it’s no wonder we don’t trust the system. So depressing.😔

[@DriveinnTheater]

...where a speed enforcement/safety van (marked or not), is parked illegally (i.e., there is a sign next to it that says njo parking) surely that would be akin to obtaining evidence illegally?

[@mickya7829]

What about rideing a bicycle with headphones on or using a phone while riding

[@carljenkins1903]

Regarding unmarked speed vans I don't think of it as entrapment but more privicy, I thought that there had to be signs up if someone is taking photos or videos of you ie the need for all the speed camera signs on stationary camera

[@Seoras111]

In the Netherlands speed cameras are mostly hidden. Especially wheely bin cameras are popular. I never understood this "entrapment" nonsense here in the UK. Entrapment would only be the case if you are complelled to drive too fast.

[@AnythingForSouls]

My dad drives up and down the uk for work reasons all the time hes only had 1 speeding ticket and it was on a motorway on a hill gradient that is bad for slowing trucks down even more so people over take and guess where the van was set up ? on that hill to catch anyone overtaking at speed to actually get around the trucks and back out of everyone's way.

[@-Tidgy]

If a police vehicle was following that dangerously close to me, especially at night I'd definitely brake check, no messing.

[@f123uab]

Hands free phone is no more distracting than someone talking to their passenger, and talking to your passenger and glancing round to them as you do so is actually worse, as i have seen many do

[@davidsalter9592]

In the seventies the cops hid behind hedges and bus shelters. Had me twice in one week.

[@redpilled-wwg1wga542]

I'm sorry, but speed DOESN'T kill, BAD driving is to blame for most, if not ALL accidents & fatalities. It is entrapment, & it is always the motorist who ends up being victimised. The police can't or wont catch the real criminals in this country, THE GOVERNMENT.

[@scaryfakevirus]

They have been around for years. Sometimes they use small plain white vans. It's just a money making exercise. Pulling over when you are being followed by some car is the last thing you would do!!! Hands free phones are also dangerous because it isn't just the fact that your hands are compromised, phones can put you in a trance like state.

[@JAmediaUK]

A similar thing happened to some friends of mine some decades ago in a norther city in the UK. A strange car following them in a similar manner. After a mile or so, my friends turned down a dead end on an industrial estate and drove to the end. The other car followed and stopped across the road, blocking it some 25 metres behind them. Out jumped two police to come face to face with four plain clothes military that were heavily armed. Unfortunately, it was only after exiting the vehicle with guns in hand, the military lads realized it was civil police. No shots were fired and the military found it very funny. Not so the police, who had to go and change uniforms. I don't believe there is any official record of the incident. Though I do know where and when it happened. Personally, with a black BMW behaving like that in that part of Brum I would not have stopped at all until I found a marked Police car (even if the BMW had flashing blue lights behind the grill) and then reported the BMW. It is not unknown for non-police to fit blue lights like that.

[@xylusirl1527]

What is the difference between a hands free device, having talk radio on, or having a passenger talking to you? If you believe one shouldn't be allowed why would the others be allowed? There is no difference between hands free calling and talking to a passenger.

[@thomasmyers4089]

It happend to me in Scotland, a car came very close behind me with main headlights on, unfortunately for them l had to slow down as l was blinded. They followed me for about 3 miles and l seen it was a police car when he turned away.

[@Jayen4]

In your first example , If I thought that it was the police following me too closely in their 'colour car' ( what we call unmarked/undercover cars around my way ) , I would have stomped on the brakes and caused him to crash into me..... then it would be 'official' ! Then the onus would have been on the cop to answer as to why he was so close in the first place ! ....... As for the ludicrous suggestion that the driver should pull over and call 999...... The cops might turn up in 2 or 3 days or you might be given a crime number over the phone , after the local hoodlums had killed you !.... lol... It's beyond time to have your own 'protection' at the ready , people ! ;-)

[@martinrwolfe]

Prety much my thought as what to do. Then providing my car was still drivable then drive to the nearest police station to report the incedent.

[@stevenSouthpole562]

I've often wanted the option for a digital adaptive speed limiter to stop all this nonsense. I button I can press and can't go over the limit. Could you imagine how the councils would try to prevent this. As for the point about trying to stop people using smart phones when in a cradle you'd also have to take all smart systems out of cars as it's the same thing.

[@neilsalway5531]

It's not just that mobile devices distract the driver (they do!), it's also the brain itself is distracted because you are having a conversation with someone without facial clues (which make up a significant portion of effective communication) - as such, even hands free will distract the driver as the brain can become more engaged with processing the gist of the conversation rather than processing what's going on in front of you

[@MultiMidden]

For the hard of thinking and tiresome contrarians: a passenger can shut up if they see there's a need to, the person on the other end of the phone call can't see what's going and so will carry on talking.

[@kpopfan674]

And on top of that, a person in the car is there IN THE PLACE WHERE YOU CURRENTLY ARE, so your focus remains on the car unless you talk to the passenger excessively or/and move your head to look at them whenever you or they speak. A person on a phone is somewhere distant, so naturally, for most people, your concentration goes to the other person and their location, even though your phone is physically in the car. I've noticed this even with walking and using my phone hands-free - I've got distracted from whatever I was doing in the present.

[@brianlopez8855]

And I've noticed that the radio will reduce its volume automatically when it sees the need to do so too... BS.

[@kpopfan674]

@@brianlopez8855 Not BS, but your comment is BS. The radio is not talking to you. And messing around with your volume while driving is distracting anyway.

[@brianlopez8855]

@@kpopfan674 On the contrary the radio is talking to me and I am listening carefully, why else have sound equipment of any sort in the vehicle ?

[@GabrielBadwolf]

Back during the troubles here in Northern Ireland all police cars where unmarked. You could always tell they where police cars though because they had bullet proof windows and they where tinted dark. Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s there really wasn’t normal cars with darkened windows on the road.

[@LUZ-zv6pq]

Had this happen down the road the other side of Litchfield. Whatever I did they did with me and stayed right on my bumper. I got the feeling it might be police so I just drove like a model citizen then the blues came on.. Told me my number plate was dirty and difficult to read in the low light, checked me out and let me go. They were definitely trying to push me into a driving error to enable them to pull me over

[@roberthardy3090]

If they were not offered a speed awareness course at that speed, then presumably they had had a recent speeding ticket.

[@ragupasta]

That is entrapment from the black/blue unmarked car and I would have gone to court over being forced to worry for my safety (if they had a concern they could have flashed their blue lights, as a driver you could have flashed your 4 way flashes and continued legally to the next petrol station/service station, then come to a stop). You call they were traveling in close proximity early hours of the morning, so that would assume very little to no traffic around. I would be concerned! And they are at fault for travelling so close to what they are tailing is not only stupid but dangerous in nature. If the police are investigating anything, they would never have been so close, that could have been done so much more clandestine - so to speak. The fact they pretty much bullied someone into forcing them to speed 3 mph then fine them - that IS entrapment! regardless of how anyone wants to put it. I would have gone to court and gone to have the officers reprimanded by their actions, either by the courts or the IPCC. Travelling that close is stupid and dangerous, then giving a fine for being pushed in a car type that is probably used by drug dealers themselves is wrong, probably facilitating to the fact the individual actually chose to speed up. If the police are investigating an incident, or gathering intel on drug dealers is one thing. Marked police having their blues and two's trying to get where they are needed is an exception of law (which I agree with - always make way for who is needed, as your personal travel is very rarely that important) - as we: The general population can actually be fined for rolling slowly into a red traffic light to make room for emergency services to pass as they are needed somewhere. Outside that, they should always abide by the law they are supposed to uphold, and the Police cannot figure out why communities do not support them like back in the 70's - the reason is clear - abide by what you sow, same goes for the government, stand by the laws they write if you expect compliance. This sounds like I hate they Police - I do not. I do not trust or respect their actions in cases like this.

[@keithdowsett1352]

Watching this brought to mind an interesting question. Are you obliged to stop for an unmarked vehicle if the occupants aren't obviously in uniform?? IIRC, we are obliged to stop for a uniformed officer. Any thoughts / case law??

[@macpdm]

Very interesting video thankyou. I noted your comment regarding the support of banning the use of mobile phones when hands free. If its because it is a distraction then I respectfully ask if this might also lead to banning the radio or other methods of music playback when in the car ?

[@gailtomlinson5510]

I think that's the best way to do it because if the driver see a marked police car there not going to do as they normally do so I think it's the best way to do it

[@DreamofaHive]

Seems strange that there was a hullabaloo back in the 80's? where speed cameras HAD to be preceded by a speed camera sign? If the BMW was tailgating how does that affect the case? Surely police should not be allowed to commit an offense (surely it could be considered dangerous driving on the part of the police if the driver had to brake suddenly?)

[@roblewis226]

How can you be entrapped by something you are unaware of?

[@chrissmith2114]

Apparently according to psychologists one of the favourite careers for psychopaths is the police service.... Surely they can be screened out ?

[@PaulSmith-jr1qe]

With regard to potential speeding offences I live in sheffield and regularly use the M1between Junction 31 and junction 34, within that area there is a speed limit of 60mph for air quality as stated by the overhead signs. If there was a speed limit imposed and no reason given I don't see a problem however I am waiting to see a case appear where someone is charged for speeding in an electric vehicle which has no emisions and as such does not create any air quality issues. I would like your views on this while awaiting the inevitable.

[@cleebe823]

I don't drive, but this comments section is something else. I wonder what BBB thinks to the sheer volume of offenses caused by the police being presented here. This all sounds very dangerous and makes me not want to learn to drive at all.

[@JordanHall_dev]

This seems slightly incorrect based on my understanding on Dark Justice legal victory that ruled case by case as a form of defence. Case was in 2017

[@dazspurs9899]

I had someone in a plain car and plain clothing flash me to pull over claimed to be an off duty police officer this was in the 90s didn't show me any id or anything,I should have reported it,but I was 17 at the time and felt intimidated he seemed very convincing

[@pjaj43]

This is nothing new. Over 50 years ago I was leaving Swindon late one night and as I passed through Stratton St Margaret (the old Press Steel Fisher plant as was) a marked police car pulled out and started following me. I was well aware of him and careful to keep well within the speed limits etc. I was headed for Malmesbury so 8 miles later I turned off the A419 to drive through Cricklade. He was still following me. By now I was a bit worried and distracted. I accidentally touched a curb on a left hand turn which was his cue to finally stop me. Unfortunately for him I was completely sober and I've never, ever taken drugs so he had to let me go on my way as the car was in good roadworthy condition as well.