NTSB Preliminary Report - Honda Jet, Mesa AZ

[@flashcar60]

Sal Mercogliano, over at the What's Going on with Shipping channel, was giving his analysis of a recent collision between two large ships, and he said. ""I'm going to Juan Browne it". Apparently "To Juan Browne" is now a verb.

[@SteamCrane]

I heard that, got a chuckle. Sal then used AIS, the marine equivalent of ADS-B, to present a Juan Browne level track of the collision. 2 of the best.

[@roderickcampbell2105]

@@SteamCrane I heard that too and almost lost it. Very serious matters delivered by very funny people. Long may their big jib fly.

[@rogerallen6644]

Yep! Watched it too.😂😂

[@FredPorlock-1892]

Awesome!

[@JKwakulla]

Juan sent me over to Sal to begin with, for the Dali incident. Two professionals recognizing each other.

[@cgfacer3022]

Thanks for the video Juan. Your comments at the end are spot on. I’m an aviation insurance broker and without fail, when we approach underwriters with owner flown turbine equipment, they get gunshy fast. The supermajority of us GA pilots simply do not have the time requisite to stay sharp and safe in that level of aircraft

[@williampotter2098]

Bingo .....

[@mikederucki]

Same, but on the wholesale side, I wouldn’t be surprised if they filled out a pilot qualification questionnaire for someone higher time on the type than just Lindahl. I don’t see anyone offering terms with a low time non professional with a PPL obtained two years ago

[@JeffinTD]

I can understand how, if you owned a private jet, you’d want to become qualified to fly it- but if you can afford the aircraft there is no reason you couldn’t have a professional pilot/instructor sitting next to you.

[@avflyguy]

I was an aviation underwriter of 43+ years until I retired a while back and this _wasn't_ the case 10-15 years ago. The introduction of turbine single and multi engine turbine/jet was relatively easy to get insured back then. It was lucrative premiums, high hull values, and high limits of liability. The carriers that decided to jump into this arena and the industry were also at a low points of rates back then. The underwriting mentality was *completely insane* but with enough reinsurance, net losses weren't hurting carriers and the many MGA's at the time. As you are well aware that all came to a screeching hault. *But* , Initial sim training and accompanied by another pilot for xxx hours, then these pilots were free to go solo provided annual recurrent was being required. It was the craziest era of time I'd ever seen. Thankfully, reinsurors finally had enough and it's been brakes on since then. But obviously there is still a market for this class of business somewhere..

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@avflyguyyou think it’s good to ground people and stop people doing what they want because they can’t get insurance? I obviously don’t expect insurers to go broke but a lot of sports are being restricted now because of insurance being too expensive or unavailable. Just another thing where the older generations got to do things and pulled the ladder up behind them. If you don’t allow inexperienced pilots to fly you never get experienced pilots.

[@TGraysChannels]

Again, I thank you so much. I have over fifty years, over 25,000 hours, and I still, each day, try and learn and become better. And I learn from you. It would be an honor to someday cross paths with you Juan.

[@Ksweetpea]

My dad is retiring in 3 days with 29,500 hrs and 40 years of commercial & passenger flying. I think you, him, and Juan would have some great stories to tell

[@jeremy41234]

Hey Juan, I’m a chinook pilot in Texas and a bunch of us love your channel. We had a five ship formation go IIMC this week and thank God we all recovered safely however it could be instructive for your channel. Let me know if you would like to like details. It’s quite a story of what to do and what not to do.

[@DHFamily]

I fly two Citation CJ3s professionally. Carrying a full passenger load w/no baggage can place our jets out of CG (forward limit). Our aft baggage compartment is aft of the CG. We carry ballast bags for that situation.

[@Bill3558]

Pilot ego is a real thing. He was the man. Until people died.

[@jlr3636]

Makes sense, we all know big and tall people ALWAYS play the size card, always too big to sit in the back seat, airplane or car. Funny thing is, have you ever seen a tall or big person volunteer to move to the BACK of a crowd so small or short people can see…. Nope, they always fight for the best view.

[@big_beak]

​@@jlr3636That's a pretty confident blanket statement...I counted 1 "all"; 1 [all-caps] "ALWAYS"; and 2 [lowercase] "always". "Always remember to never use words like 'always' and 'never'." Those kinds of statements often are easily refuted, leave the speaker's credibility in tatters, and the people on the receiving end of any accusations (big and tall people, in this case) justifiably objecting. I'm not a big person, but I am a tall person, and I have often volunteered to sit in the back of vehicles, even when the headroom is too low, or it's more difficult to climb past rows of more comfortable seats to get to the rear-most seat in an SUV. Can't say I've had occasion to do so in a private plane; but if the pilot knew his stuff and said he needed big/tall volunteers to sit in the back to get our center of gravity within the limits of the aircraft so we wouldn't crash and die, I would be the first to volunteer. Unless I saw someone heavier, in which case I would volunteer that person first, and me second. 😊

[@skyepilotte11]

Thank you Juan...your ending summary, nails it...2 amateurs flying a high performance jet...RIP all that perished.

[@Andrew-13579]

Sounds like the front runner for the cause, at this early point. Unless investigation can rule out CG being forward of limit. It’s a pretty small, light aircraft. It doesn’t take too much to run the CG out of limits, maybe? The engines seem a bit more forward than they would be if fuselage-mounted. Looks like most of the cabin seats are over or forward of the wing. So, if this “CG out of limits” is the cause, did the pilots neglect to check CG? And if forward CG is what inhibited pitch rotation to takeoff attitude, I’m thinking there were only two possible solutions: 1. Keeping full power applied, the non-flying pilot gets up out of his seat and runs to the far aft end of the cabin. Or, 2. Keep full power down the runway until what ever speed necessary to lift the nose. Rejecting takeoff when they chose to was not an option. Possibly…not knowing the actual CG before taking the runway sealed their fates. Of course, it may be that the surviving passenger will describe the seating situation as that that would result in proper CG. And then back to scratching our heads.

[@jimpalmer1969]

Juan makes a great point about private pilots flying high performance jets. I started in aviation back in 1973. In those days it was big money private pilots who bought warbirds and had a lot of problems with them, including accidents like this. Some things never change. God bless the souls of the people who lost their lives.

[@brycebonilla4288]

please, pray for the Kimball family. They lost one of their boys to suicide less than a year ago. Everybody who knew them was in absolute shock. Then, in an instant, they lost their dad and another one of their boys in this crash.

[@pmtips4482]

I love my 16 year old Honda Civic! So far no crashes!

[@pmtips4482]

@SeekingAlfalfa V1......😆

[@garyhannie6528]

SUCH A GOOD AND THOROUGHLY DETAILED REPORT! Thank you very much. I am always thinking of and noting errors or failures. These add to my learning, especially in the areas of pre-flight checklists and condition and takeoff config of the aircraft, among other checks.

[@hotttt28]

Condolences to the family and friends!RIP

[@DriveLongRoad]

One of the best channels in aviation on YT. Thanks man! 🙂

[@peterebel7899]

It is great to have some own experience. It is even greater to have a guy beside you having more experience/practice and giving you the chance for a next leg of a lifelong learning curve.

[@teakettle100]

Juan: thank you for another excellent edition of the Blancolirio channel. I hear in your voice a passion for safety (when you talk about having a professional pilot)...it's clear that you really care about safety. I know people listen to you and respect what you say. On a related note...for people that can afford a $5M+ jet...even if they're approved for SINGLE PILOT operations, strongly consider having TWO PILOTS (two professional pilots). The cost of operation goes up, of course, but the safety doesn't just double, it Triples. It's a "1 + 1 = 3" situation. Thanks again.

[@RubenKelevra]

I mean the single pilot operation certification should be enough to safely operate an airplane. If not, the training requirements should be revised.

[@AirbornChaos]

@@RubenKelevra You're not wrong, but on some trips, isn't it less stressful to have someone ride shotgun that can help you navigate the freeway in your Chevy? Now, imagine having someone who can help your workload in a jet, with radio navigation, ATC, and an unfamiliar airport. Just because one person can do it safely, doesn't mean everyone should do it themselves.

[@daniels2761]

​@@AirbornChaosexactly. It can be a huge help in a plane that fast.

[@RubenKelevra]

@AirbornChaos well, I think what you're referring to is, that it's a high workload to fly alone. Sure. But it's always a high workload to fly alone, and those more expensive jets are actually easier to fly in some regards than turboprop/piston planes, because of automations, better integration and more autopilot features. My point was more: We see that flying alone is an issue, why do we allow it? Make it dual pilot operation until a rated pilot got, say 1000 hours and at last 500 landings/starts on the type and issue solved. After this time he/she should be "experienced" and can operate the type alone. I mean otherwise Juan's note about "professional pilots" make no sense, a single pilot you're hired can be overwhelmed flying single as well as you. The difference is simply that it's less likely, because he has more experience.

[@jiyushugi1085]

@@RubenKelevra If you only knew.......

[@Pete-v3n]

I don’t know squat about aviation, but this channel captures my interest video after video.

[@riudeguise4106]

Do you even understand any of it?

[@operationscomputer1478]

i fly a slow cub, and the physics is the same - i learn from the mistakes of others so that I do not find myself in their predicament.

[@edwardsbarbara25]

​@@riudeguise4106🙄

[@montestu5502]

Juan is a great teacher. I’ve learned a lot from him.

[@renespani9791]

Thanks!

[@george1la]

After spending my entire life reading accident reports in Aviation Week I have to say you are the best at doing this by the book. It is Jack Webb "Just the Facts Mam, Just the Facts." Nothing else matters. That is why it takes so long for the final report. Over time you see what happens like you said "Too many private pilots are flying machines over their head and they should hire professionals who do it everyday just for protection, or have one with you in case something happens and you do not know what to do. That would be the best of both worlds.

[@raykaufman7156]

Sal over on "What's going on with Shipping" said he was doing a "Juan Browne" on the container ship vs tanker collision that happened today. You're becoming famous. 👏😎

[@TenantRepGuru]

Juan, this was another excellent accident review by you. Your first one, only a day after this tragic accident, was right on the money too. I am one of those owner pilots (HondaJet) and I pride myself on flying professionally. You nailed what happened here, but we don't know why the pilot did not rotate. From the very beginning you pointed out that it was doubtful that the gust lock played a factor. I couldn't have agreed more. You can't miss the gust lock in the HondaJet. At sea level my V1 speed is typically 104, not 110 and rotate speed is typically 109. Although I know it may have been slightly higher at a 5k' elevation, but lightly loaded, maybe not. You can see the v1 and rotation speeds, as I always call them out, on my channel at iOptimize Realty also on my other channel Jet Pilot Diaries. I love the professionalism you show in all your reviews. Thank you. You are a true asset to the aviation community. Don

[@blancolirio]

Thanks Don.

[@zachansen8293]

why would altitude be the only thing you'd mention for a v1 speed? Isn't the length of the runway what really determines v1?

[@dominictrifiletti630]

Could the MFD data card have the correct data - but which was not being displayed correctly on the MFD (at the time of accident), because the pitot tube airdata supplied from outside was partially blocked ?? I could see this being pilot 101 error, because it caused a slow airspeed increase displayed on the MDF -- essentially a pitot tube airdata blockage disagreement if it was an airliner ?

[@tedsaylor6016]

I fly out of Falcon, its ~1,400' PA and with temps that day could not have been more than 2K DA. How hard is it to go past forward CG like was mentioned elsewhere - maybe that was a factor?

[@tedsaylor6016]

@@zachansen8293 As I understand it, V1 is calculated by Aircraft Gross Weight (for the flight) and Density Altitude - runway length not a factor. If you want to make sure you can accelerate to V1, then reject, and still stop on the remaining runway (balanced field calc) is a different calculation - but my speculative guess here is that a 120Kt hard reject would have at most put them in the dirt at the end of the runway.

[@edcujm1372]

I live in mesa and i was driving to work when I saw the plane on the road. Im glad the report finally came out.

[@TomSherwood-z5l]

I knew of a general who was flying an AF corporate type jet and he went right off the end like that and the plane was wiped out. They attributed that to some kind of medical issue apparently. And he got a base named after him for that.

[@johnqdoe]

Military brass get away with murder! Pun intended!

[@TomSherwood-z5l]

@@johnqdoe why do you say that? He did not survive.

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@TomSherwood-z5lWhat method do militaries use to persuade the enemy to surrender or to win a war?

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@TomSherwood-z5lYou don’t understand what militaries do ?

[@danielreuter2565]

Sad story. In this case, when you make mistakes like this, they don't name things after you.

[@lalomcnombres72]

PNF once on the CRJ-200. Large # of heavy bags on the load sheet. When the CA went to rotate he had a bit of a time and really had to roll in the trim to get the plane to rotate. When doing the walk around after I noticed we had a university tennis team on board and all the heavy bags were, in fact, quite light. Those standard weight measurements can also throw things off.

[@scooter433]

Wow! There was the same situation in Oklahoma. A couple flew out toward Alabama to watch a game. The husband just got his clearance to have one person on board. Didn't have knowledge to fly by guages. So they get to game and watch it with family. Started flying back. Got caught in a wall cloud coming through Arkansas. He was trying to fly north to get out of it and was disoriented. Word from his son was he flew plane into ground at 225 mph. I would like to see data to see if that was accurate. Sad to say his wife was telling people in our hometown goodbye. She said they wouldn't make it back alive. I don't know how she knew this, but it is very sad. They owned a construction company. Love your channel. You do an awesome job.

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

It never ceases to amaze me that these people ever pass any license exam. Does flightschool work the same as driving school in the U.S?!

[@johnqdoe]

What?! The wife did what?! @blancolirio

[@unvergebeneid]

Man, maybe I should get into American football! Sounds like it's a game that's just to die for!

[@57appel]

She knew her husband well, probably could never make a suggestion or comment. How incredibly sad.

[@jiyushugi1085]

Earning one's power certificate is simply too easy. It gives people a false confidence in their abilities, leading to tragedies like the above. All aspiring pilots should be required to accurate at least 50 hours of SOLO glider time before being allowed to start on their power ratings. Far better to discover that one shouldn't be flying aircraft while flying solo in a glider, than in a power plane with friends and family aboard.

[@catherinenelson4162]

Juan, It's gotten where I'm at. I hope you and yours are able to stay warm and safe this winter.

[@philo5096]

Thanx Juan, great vid. Again another very sad story, but I learn so much.

[@frankgulla2335]

Thank you, Juan. Another great succinct report and frailties of man. Looking forward to the final report on this accident.

[@reeltrides911S]

Totally agree. Lots of money doesn’t necessarily mean experience. Used to be the V tail Bonanzas were the DR killers, now it’s too much plane and not enough training. I’m offering my services as a safety pilot to assist those that would like a SIC as an extra set of eyes and competence to allow for a safe and sane flight. I’m Commercially rated, IFR, Seaplane, Multi Engine and over 1000 hours in single, multi and turbine aircraft.

[@chrisnoname2725]

Lots of money also doesn’t mean incompetence.

[@RamHaHahehe]

Rich is synonymous to stingy

[@cslivestockllc138]

You’re so right! My business deals with the DOT and with severe cases of negligence the NTSB will get involved, but it’s rare. I need employees that are qualified obviously. But just because they are qualified doesn’t mean they are good at what they do. It’s sad to see this type of accident that could have definitely been avoided.

[@corvettedude]

Heart attack or aneurysm hasn’t been ruled out yet so perhaps couldn’t have been avoided. Have you thought about that?

[@cslivestockllc138]

@ Absolutely. He did have a current medical, not sure of the class. I believe it was recent as well, meaning within a 6-12 month period.

[@RobertMcGrath-dx1uv]

Juan hits the nail to on the head in reference to owner pilots flying their own high performance jet and turboprops. I call it Munson syndrome, a reference to a NY Yankees catcher who bought a Cessna Citation many years ago. The owner can hire a pilot, or put in the necessary training time to operate the aircraft safety. There are no shortcuts.

[@benanderson4118]

I did my flight training at Akron Canton 2 years after Munson's crash. My instructor pointed out the site. In his opinion Munson was not experienced enough to fly a jet.

[@RobertMcGrath-dx1uv]

@@benanderson4118To put it in perspective , Munson was an icon for the Yankees. Somewhat like Derek Jeeter including team captain. He bought the Citation to fly to the road games. Insurance dictated that he have an instructor onboard but on the day of the accident the instructor he had was not rated in the Citation. His fatal mistake was not wearing the shoulder harness. When they landed hard his torso lurched forward, hitting the yoke. Unfortunately the instructor could not extricate the unconscious Munson since he was a big guy and he perished. Tragic and preventable as many accidents are.

[@kevinmadore1794]

"Munson syndrome"...also known as: "A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle."

[@wjatube]

I have been a passenger many times in this situation. The plane owner wants to be in charge just like the captain of his ship. But unless he has a more experienced co-pilot you are putting your life in the hands of someone you trust: Had a good night of sleep. Is sober. Is in good physical and psychological health. Is instrument rated. Is proficient and experienced in this type of aircraft. I have had a few scary moments over the years and yes one-time I even excused myself and got out before a flight. I've since retired from my industry so I no longer get private flights everywhere and other than long lines at the major airports I no longer miss privates.

[@teeembeee]

Details please on why you got off the airplane...

[@wjatube]

@teeembeee Heading to Chicago Meigs Field (yes a long time ago) from Cleveland Burke. On a Lear corporate 8 passenger jet. I was normally the only passenger on most flights. But on this one particular day they invited the sales crew on the flight. Most of them over 200 lbs. And there were nine of us total with bags. No problem they voted the least seniority sales guy to ride in the head. Seriously this was allowed back then. Everyone laughed about it. Including the pilot. It was a cold, overcast December afternoon and my experience flying into the Windy city that time of the year was relatively rocky. I also remembered the last time we used this pilot he seemed a little unsteady and showed a little too much relief when we landed in some elements. I was concerned. Once we were all loaded and the drinks started flowing and the cabin became loud I had an urge to get off. I wasn't comfortable with the situation and volunteered my seat. That young sales guy thanked me as he didn't want to fly in the lavatory. Thankfully, they all arrived to Chicago without issue and I caught the next morning flight. I shared my concerns about the pilot and others agreed and from that point on we had a new crew. I do admit it was a great lifestyle. Thanks for asking so I could reminisce. :)

[@Larry-mk9ry]

@@wjatube "I was normally the only passenger on most flights." You must have been a rather key piece in your company!

[@vidpie]

@@wjatube "Merrill Church Meigs /mɛɡz/ (November 25, 1883 - January 26, 1968) was the publisher of the Chicago Herald and Examiner in the 1920s. Inspired to become a pilot by Charles Lindbergh's solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean, he became a booster of Chicago as a world center of aviation.[2]: 158  He gave flying lessons to President Harry S. Truman." "Meigs insisted that in addition to Midway Airport (then called Municipal Airport) and O'Hare Field (then called Orchard-Douglas), the city needed an airfield within ten minutes of the Loop. It opened in December 1948 and was renamed Meigs Field in his honor the following year."

[@chrisnoname2725]

There are also skilled pilots that own and fly their own planes.

[@marcpootmans7454]

@Blancolirio, looking at the post-crash image on the side of the road, the axis of the Hor Stab looks pretty neutral to the fuselage axis for a takeoff config. Usually, for all such aircraft, takeoff trim involves a Hor Stab leading edge far lower than the fuselage axis (Nose up). Is it possible they had a failure in the warn system and tried to take off in a nose down trim? I'm not seeing that in your report nor in the NTSB. RIP.

[@scottstone9765]

not all aircraft move the entire horizontal stabilizer for trim. There is no standardization on this.. ie the DC-9 does not. The 737 does. The C172 does not. The PA28 does. The C182B does. The AC11 does not. I don't know what kind of system the HA420 has.

[@kekkomartin5848]

@@scottstone9765 the HT on the hondajet is fixed.

[@ianmooney213]

Thanks for your video. The lack of cockpit voice recording is a common issue with GA accidents. A relatively simple solution could be to add MP3 recording capability to modern headsets. It would avoid having to have engineering approved changes made to existing, often quite old, aircraft. It would all be self contained within the headset controller. There would be slightly increased drain on the AA batteries these units use but not so much to be a significant impediment. There would be increase in cost in hardening the electronic elements to protect from fire and it is probably impractical to be “black box recorder” level robust but….something should be possible.

[@operationscomputer1478]

a simple USB dashcam with suction cups could do it as well

[@ianmooney213]

@@operationscomputer1478 while a good option it still requires engineering sign-off for most as USB outlets were not standard issue in the 1960/70s when many GA aircraft were born. Equally the suction mounts are frowned upon down here in Australia - argument being they “could” (1-in-100000000 chance) let go at the wrong moment and fall into control mechanisms.

[@slpater1]

honestly on a 5 million dollar jet i dont see why these things dont have black boxes

[@scottstone9765]

this exists, if you want it. Seems to be an audio recording module that links to a gopro, wired inline with your headset. requires no STC or form 337. It's not mandatory obviously, but if you want it for your plane, Aircraft Spruce and others sell many variants of this for not a lot of money (some are under $100, not counting the price of the gopro itself)

[@creeper8647]

Thank you, Juan. Maybe there will be answers in the autopsies.

[@gustavoarios]

Thank you for your video. I always watch your content, and it’s always fantastic. Thank you for your work. The only other thing that I would consider as a logical explanation for what happened in this particular incident is maybe the pilot had, at the moment of takeoff, a physical problem. He may have considered it too risky to continue the flight because he felt pain in his chest, experienced blurry vision, or was fainting. Something physical could have happened to him where he thought, “If I continue flying, we’re going to crash because I’m going to get sick, have a heart attack, or pass out.” I’m thinking that is a possible explanation. Other than that, what a sad story. What a tragic turn of events. Five lives lost. Aviation is fun, but when not respected fully, it bites. Thank you for your content.

[@johnyves1246]

Point well taken. As a professional airline pilot ( B747-8 ) and many decades of flying and recurrent simulator training, I conclude that it is impossible for a private pilot to reach the proficiency level that I have. Therefore, the law should change meaning that complex aircrafts should always be operated by 2 crewmen and/ or if single piloted, a recurrent sim check should be done at regular intervals.

[@frankbumstead3838]

Yes, over confidence and over familiarity with what is a very complex Aircraft. This happens so many times.

[@johnj8840]

@frankbumstead3838 The Honda jet is not a complex aircraft if you are a halfway competent pilot..

[@nohandleleft]

I would argue that it is, in fact, incredibly rare. You have group think giving you upvotes for a generic banal comment, but none of us here, not even Juan, know what happened! We may never know. When you have an opinion to share about another person, if it's not based on actual data or facts, at best you are adding no value, much more likely is that you are straight up wrong.

[@skjoe1115]

​@johnj8840 Any aircraft with retractable gear, controllable pitch propeller, and flaps is considered a complex aircraft. So, sit down in row 2 and be quiet.

[@andresm968]

Nothing as having my morning coffee and watching one of your videos 🙏🏻👌🏻

[@johnhopkins4920]

Thank you, Juan.

[@surfer5352]

Thank you Juan! Hope you are doing well!

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

It should also be noted that the Hondajet comes with an electronic checklist. So that pretty much rules out a wrong configuration.

[@chrisnoname2725]

It verifies everything as you do it?

[@zachansen8293]

@@chrisnoname2725 It's stated in both videos if you haven't done all the things and try to take off that it will yell at you.

[@BabyGators]

You’d be surprised. I’ve seen a pro pilot take off in a HJ with the rudder trim set all the way to the right. He ignored/didn’t pay attention to the CAS messages, got airborne, and then radioed an emergency since the plane wouldn’t respond correctly. Airport rolled trucks and upon arrival back to the hangar, we could see the rudder trim tab position….

[@dingodango1]

​@chrisnoname2725 i doubt it. Most electronic checklists are just regular checklists. You can mark it complete yourself and the aircraft doesn't know any different. Something like an A350 can self check off items that are verifiable by the aircraft.

[@Quotenwagnerianer]

That's not what I meant. While this one is not self checking (apart from the initial tests) it is very in your face and you'd need to skip opening it at all to ignore it.

[@moiraatkinson]

What a lovely looking plane - it seems to be smiling!

[@carolinelvsewe]

Words of wisdom for sure. Hire a qualified pilot

[@danielrose1392]

And even if you enjoy flying, hire a qualified captain and be the co-pilot.

[@williampotter2098]

I had a fantastic job for many years for a guy who was an ex-guard and ex-airline pilot who realized he didn't have the time to stay current. Smart man.

[@wesleypace5523]

@@danielrose1392 COMPANY PLANE WHICH IS A HONDA. I THINK A RETIRED DELTA PILOT IT ABOUT 1,000 PER DAY TOTAL COAST.

[@Mauiman-w4k]

Great video. I live abut 3 miles south of the airport and saw the smoke.

[@justhamza6336]

I work at Amazon Mesa location. I was driving the day it went down. I literally passed that road; later I heard a loud boom and saw alot of smoke. Dispatch told everyone then a crash happened!

[@behindthen0thing525]

How do you afford to live there since housing has gone up like 400% in the last 10 years?

[@mmd195401]

So where's my package??

[@justhamza6336]

@mmd195401 I delivered everything that day.

[@justhamza6336]

@@behindthen0thing525 Me my brother and sister all work and rent a 3 bed apartment.

[@behindthen0thing525]

@@justhamza6336 damn that sucks that california and inflation balooned the living cost in the PHX area .

[@Ksweetpea]

My little sister completed her IFR in Mesa and spends a lot of time flying in and out of Falcon Field. Very scary couple minutes between me hearing of the crash and learning what aircraft was involved

[@danwebbphoto]

I’m asked a lot as a private pilot what kind of jet I would fly if I won the lottery, my answer is always the same, I wouldn’t I would ride in the back and let the pros drive. I didn’t know these guys but this is my home field - that orange field has had more than one plane in it unfortunately. 😢

[@andrewromig9753]

Screw jets. If I'm flying it's because I want to enjoy flying, not get to where I'm going as quickly as possible. DA-50 for me - leave the Turboprops and Jets to the commercial operators.

[@lamvuhoang1998]

To be honest, consult a lawyer and a financial consultant. Reinvest the lottery money smartly. Take a a small part, put a deposit on a house, bye a new, nice daily car fully cash and everybody should be set for life.

[@andrewromig9753]

@@lamvuhoang1998 Well, yes, obviously. This is a simplified example of what a more "reasonable" fantasy looks like. It is, of course, a fantasy nonetheless.

[@johnrobertson7583]

When my friend was coming along thru flight school, as is common, once you get certain ratings and experience you then instruct at those ratings. He had a few plane owners he was teaching that he told me scared him to the point he started refusing to instruct them.

[@phillipkalaveras1725]

6:32 You nailed it. Your videos should be required viewing for all new pilots

[@nohandleleft]

That's a little offensive to an entire industry of flight instructors. Much as I appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge that goes in to these videos, common sense is not exclusive to this channel. None of us know what happened, we don't know why the pilot rejected the takeoff, we can speculate, but there is no "nailed it" moment.

[@garyprince7309]

Good summery Juan, as always. I agree with your concerns with these expensive highly complex private jets in the hands of owner / operators with low hours in type. I live 10 minutes from where Thurman Munson crashed his Citation on a botched take off. Lots of money but low time in the jet. I fly out of the same airport. KCAK

[@igclapp]

No, he got an excessive sink rate on approach.

[@williampotter2098]

As I recall, Thurman was with an instructor practicing single-engine landings. I think he just got behind the power curve on final but that was a while ago.

[@BillyLapTop]

@@igclapp Didn't Munson forget to put the wheels down and was accompanied by an instructor? There was a big lawsuit over this crash.

[@HighFlyer-p8x]

As always, good point about the plane outclassing the pilot. There is a reason why Barons/Bonanzas repeatedly kill lots of doctors and lawyers. The planes are too hot/complex for their recurrent proficiency even if at one time they were very proficient. After flying all manners of complexity, there is something quite comforting flying a Cherokee with fixed gear, fixed prop. The Honda jet was too much plane.

[@ginacalabrese3869]

At an FBO I worked at in the early 2000s we had a Baron based in our hangar owned by a lawyer. He would call us to pull it out and fuel it but we never once saw him do a preflight. He'd pull his car up to the plane, move the chock in front of the gear, and just get in and go. Luckily he never had an accident but that was just by pure luck.

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@ginacalabrese3869How often do you think pilots find anything seriously wrong during a preflight? I always did them properly but finding anything seriously was very rare. If the plane is maintained well i think you would barely have an increase in incidents if everything stopped preflighting small aircraft

[@pilotandy1333]

@@chrisnoname2725 I found shit wrong with planes all the time when I worked as a charter pilot, wasp nets on control cables , exhaust cracks, prop damage, missing spinner screws/ cowling screws, broken seatbelts, stone damage to horizontal stabiliser, seat stops broken on rail, brake fluid leak and broken brake line, alternator belt broken etc etc etc. I suggest you go see an EXPERIENCED instructor to get better training on pre flight methods ASAP.

[@smark1180]

"There is a reason why Barons/Bonanzas repeatedly kill lots of doctors and lawyers." Please reply with stats that support your claim.

[@herkloader34]

​@chrisnoname2725 many accidents were caused by pilots not sumping and checking the fuel put into the aircraft. That's the most important item to check on a preflight.

[@davesherman74]

Shoot, my parents lived very close to Falcon Field, and my dad kept his plane there until recently. I know exactly where that stretch of road is, I've driven by it many times.

[@sreed8570]

With a v-2 rotate speed between 110-120 knots at 130 knots with the trim set properly the jet should have lifted off even without pilot pull back.

[@operationscomputer1478]

pilot leaning into the column?

[@sreed8570]

@@operationscomputer1478 possible but why?

[@sdingeswho]

@@sreed8570after seeing this update, I think possible medical emergency on the part of the pilot. If he slumped across the column due to loss of consciousness … there would be a possible answer 🤔.

[@sreed8570]

@@sdingeswho I agree, especially if he was single pilot with an empty copilot seat.

[@montestu5502]

Other commenters are thinking the CG could have been way off and couldn’t get the nose up even at 130 knots. Sounds plausible.

[@whathasxgottodowithit3919.]

Juan you are so right, these type of aircraft are complex to fly safely, they deserve a professional crew

[@ronwade2206]

Pilot waited like 10 seconds after V-1 to cut power.

[@briggsahoy1]

Thank you, RB, Nova Scotia.

[@thegrumpyoldmechanic6245]

A common variety of the Dunning-Kruger disease, "I am good at making money, therefore I am good at everything ".

[@0tispunkm3y3r]

Iceman holdings 🙄

[@biz4twobiz463]

wish Elon would read your comment... IMO... so true.

[@studlyhungwell5740]

Spot on Sir!

[@tennesseegregario7253]

@@biz4twobiz463 Knock it off! You lost.

[@behindthen0thing525]

@@biz4twobiz463 knock it off BOT

[@malsandford5017]

True, and if as result a tyre blew you’d still elect to go, because your landing will be slower than they were doing.. inexperience in making those late go-no - go decisions may have cost some metres of runway, so there’s still a few things investigators can look at. But this equipment versus experience issue is happening a lot in VLJ’s and PC12’s as well. I think they need to legislate something, somehow.

[@alstruck8063]

Anybody remember Thurman Munson ( maybe misspelled the name) lots of dollars for purchase and had to try flying it himself. He was a world-class baseball player but not a qualified pilot. R.I.P. to all aboard.

[@kenclark9888]

He crashed while training go read the report

[@benparadude2028]

I had a high speed abort in a Honda Jet at KOAK 27L at 92 kts, at max gross take off….lightly wet runway and still had 1200,feet remaining when I stopped the airplane. It was my 5th flight in the jet. I have 8000 hours Total Time. I didn’t feel uneasy during the event.

[@dominicestebanrice7460]

If you don't mind me asking, what prompted the abort decision?

[@benparadude2028]

@ it was a main cabin door open light.

[@bill2066]

Wow....I was JUST ABOUT to say too........"Over Their Heads"....Physicians come to mind as well. Still Cannot understand the deal Between Doctors and Airplanes, but I Digress.

[@jiyushugi1085]

Many of these highly intelligent people often forget that there are other kinds of intelligence, such as the empathy with and understanding of machines which some otherwise uneducated people posses. And those are they guys you want in the front seat at night when rain is streaming down the windscreen and the autopilot has just clicked off in the turbulence.

[@smh988]

"hire a qualified pilot". You're overlooking the human nature of things: Thrill, pride and prestige that comes from flying it yourself.

[@BH195829]

You mean EGO?🤔

[@chrisnoname2725]

Also the guy was qualified. It’s pure slander

[@calvinreeves]

fly it yourself, but hire an experienced hand to sit in the other seat.

[@bw162]

⁠Slander for sure. No Wx or any other know condition that would suggest this operation was beyond the pilot’s training. Using Juan’s criteria, every accident with even a suggestion of pilot error would mean the pilot should have hired a “professional” pilot which begs the question about the qualifications of “professional” airline pilots that cause an accident.

[@KevinMiller-lh9ur]

Same as pro athletes who go out and try to drive home after drinking instead of paying for an uber or a driver to take them home. They can afford this expense.

[@RubenKelevra]

6:32 well, if a type rating is not enough to be capable of flying a plane, maybe change the pilot training?

[@carloscortes5570]

I remember watching a Honda jet video when they came out .in the video the Honda rep was pointing out exactly that..How easy it is to fly the Honda because all its features.single pilot.made it look like it almost could fly itself. I believe if not mistaken it even had an emergency mode where it could land itself??? Maybe thats why pilots not experienced decided to give it a spin

[@Paul1958R]

Juan, Thank you for this. Its such a tragedy that one of the victims was a 12 year old.

[@Chris-Nico]

Good report Juan. Thank you.

[@diannemc3179]

When I was a kid a plane went off the runway across Greenfield rd and into the orange groves.

[@HJHazeltine1]

Their Checkbook killed them

[@user-vr2tx4tt6b]

Ya, it's the only conclusion I was thinking also... and that just makes this even more tragic. RIP.

[@jlvandat69]

Flying is one of those activities where the demands on the pilot can be minimal to extreme, depending on the aircraft, weather, the airport, etc. Infrequent flying seems to be a contributing factor in many accidents involving sophisticated, privately-owned airplanes. Another reason to hire a professional pilot as Juan mentions. Generally-speaking, a pilot needs to be fully active and regularly re-trained well beyond FAA minimums to be as safe as possible, IMO.

[@dave642]

Yes and private jets do not have dispatchers on the ground like commercial jets, adding that added layer of safety.

[@Southwest_923WR]

Wow!!! This is a wild one that may always be a "wth"? Thanks for update, Juan. My "Go-to-King" for info!👍🏿🥂

[@peterredfern1174]

Thanks Juan for another great but sad update,safe flights mate,🙏🙏👋👍👍🇦🇺

[@KO-pk7df]

Yes, I agree with Juan's last statement. I do see this often at airports but of course what can you say? Then think well it's their life but I still wonder about family members and friends who end up in trouble with the pilot in quistion.

[@ronjones1077]

You are 100% correct. Got the $$$$$ but not the brains. You’ve be smart enough to know when you need help and then finding the Right help!

[@nvestig8r]

Good stuff, as usual, sir. I enjoy your work. To say "the...gust lock was located uninstalled" is not quite the same as "no gust lock was found installed." The preliminary report doesn't address whether follow-on wreckage examination is anticipated. I'm not familiar with the Hondajet control lock system. I'm curious to know whether enough of the system survived to permit assessment of whether anything was restricting the flight controls. It has always been disheartening to me to see the number of accidents that involved pilots who were at ease either partially or improperly installing the correct gust lock, or using a non-standard lock.

[@Deltarious]

In terms of more well off folks opperating their own private jets I sort've 'get' it- if you can now afford your own private jet there's a certain 'wow factor' and prestige in being able to fly it yourself, sort've like with expensive cars. I do agree of course that unless you're flying all the time and are very up to date and focused on being current as a large part of your life that yeah obviously it makes way more sense to hire a pilot as that'll be much safer. Hell it probably makes sense to hire one anyway as a copilot even if you do fly as PIC

[@chrisnoname2725]

Yes if you can’t stay competent enough you should have someone else. Your comment is reasonable unlike everyone else clambering to agree with a KZbinr and claiming nobody with money should fly their own plane

[@jimdavis1939]

The fact that there was no CVR on the a/c is really going to hamper getting to the cause of this one. Hard to fathom why they accelerated well past rotation speed and then decided to reject knowing how little runway was left, clearly not enough to safely stop. Thanks Juan.

[@redmesa2975]

Fancy aircraft are a status symbol in our valley. A construction company owner I worked for in the late 90’s had a Cessna Silver Eagle conversion. Then his buddy that owns a steel erection company and crane company had to learn to fly. He crashed a rented airplane landing with his family on board. They lived, pilot shattered his ankle & foot. So crane guy buys an airplane and gets an instrument rating 🤨 The construction guy now has a TBM, and Crane guy that crashed, has an Epic LT turboprop.

[@jeswinkjr]

Agree with your statement about concerning low time private pilots buying HP turbo prop and jet aircraft and trying to learn how to fly them. The sad part is usually with their family on board. Very often concluding with fatalities, bad press and higher insurance. All because you have money doesn't mean you can bypass the necessary experience required to manage these types of aircraft.

[@perryallan3524]

I also don't understand that if you can afford to buy the Honda Jet, why not buy a the advanced recording features that include cockpit audio and voice recording. One possibility is that the PIC has having a sudden health issue during takeoff. It is likely we will never know though.

[@chrisnoname2725]

How do those recordings help the owner?

[@perryallan3524]

@@chrisnoname2725 They may not help the pilot and passengers. But they sure help explain what happened and prevent reoccurrence. The owner of the aircraft may not be onboard - and would certainly like to know what actually happened in that case. Now many times people involved in crashes don't remember what happened. I don;t recall the exact number but it takes something like 5-7 minutes from things to move from short term memory into long term memory. If the pilot, copilot, and passengers survive... and don't remember due to shock or being knocked unconscious... the recordings can certainly tell them a lot about what happened, and benefit them. Also,, it can help greatly on certain insurance claims (depending on the situation and the insurance policy).

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@perryallan3524 I agree that they help in case of there being an issue that could reoccur. That’s why they need to be in the big aircraft where they will have much bigger losses. My only point was that it’s not going to be a priority for most owners because especially if they will be onboard most of the time they won’t get the benefit. The loss of life was less than you could have in a car crash so it’s not that important to bother regulating. It could actually be unhelpful for some insurance claims too.

[@perryallan3524]

@@chrisnoname2725 Too many owners are self centered. If they cared about other people and the future of private avaiation they would see things differently. As far as the insurance companies. I'm sure that more claims would be paid better and faster if they knew that it was not, or just, pilot error... because something else was going on. If it is solely pilot error... then own up to the mistake and accept responsibility.

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@perryallan3524 On the first point I would think that if it was going to be generally useful then it would be mandated. Also if insurance companies would find the information useful then they would just make it a requirement to get insurance. Insurance companies don’t mind requiring ridiculous things otherwise. I worked at a company and i have a commercial helicopter license which allows me to conduct private operations but the insurance company wouldn’t met me fly because i didn’t hold a private pilot’s licence. So there is indication to owners from the two most interested parties in safety that it’s not an important piece of equipment. I obviously agree with taking accountability but many people get rich because they’re more willing than others to play to their advantage within the system and accepting accountability is often detrimental to making money

[@erwinschmidt7265]

Juan - Might substandard quality, or contaminated fuel added at the stop, be the culprit on this one?? Hope they get a sample from wreck, or tank fuel came from that would give us a yea or no, as the Pilot seemed pretty sure it should fly!!

[@DIYPackraft]

Medical distress, maybe? Was there enough left of the pilot for an autopsy?

[@future62]

Affluenza

[@unvergebeneid]

It sounded like they weren't even sure who the pilot was...

[@blancolirio]

To reject a takeoff, the pilot must ACTIVELY rip the throttles to idle, throw out the boards, and jump on the brakes...NOT something you would do if medically incapacitated. Good grief!

[@richardgaynor234]

@@blancolirio Not incapacitated but maybe not 100% alert from illegal or legal prescription drugs or recreational drugs, e.g, alcohol.

[@DIYPackraft]

@@blancolirio I didn’t mean (or say) medically incapacitated, I meant being in medical distress, like having a heart attack or a vertigo attack (how I lost my medical). Most people don’t just suddenly drop dead or go unconscious, first they feel like something is seriously wrong with them, and they still have the wherewithal to make a last ditch effort to save themselves before the darkness closes in.

[@paulbervid1610]

Great conversation.

[@rodcoulter997]

Just cause you have the $$$ to buy the jet, doesn’t mean you are qualified to operate it….Juan…excellent observation. Was this a PF/PNF issue where nobody called “V1 ROTATE”

[@johngreydanus2033]

Same goes for when you see those exotic car crashes around Hollywood.

[@davidpowell3347]

Or the high performance twin prop

[@who2u333]

Has been true since the Forked Tail Doctor Killer (Bonanza) got its nickname.

[@williampotter2098]

In my career, I've learned that people who have the self-drive to earn enough money to buy a high performance aircraft became successful by never taking no for an answer. Unfortunately, aviation doesn't work that way.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@sdingeswho]

Thanks for the update! Watching this tragic story closely - I live a short distance from Falcon Field. Honda Jet would probably have flown over my house, if the takeoff had been executed properly. The mystery deepens - pilot had medical emergency 🤔?

[@daviddesrosiers1946]

I work at Able Steel Fabricators right down the road from Falcon. Really tragic.

[@Molly-r8o7q]

I used to drive that road everyday building MD530s for MDHI. Sad

[@marlinweekley51]

Had a friend who had multiple dental locations and was “in the bucks” as they say. He kept buying bigger and faster aircraft. Not fully checked off to single pilot the twin turbine Mitsubishi of some kind he had recently bought, he and his wife took off headed for arizona to visit 5he kids. Stalled it on final and kill em both. Tragic 🙁

[@johnharvey7913]

MU-2? A friend got killed when he stalled one...I believe that was before they understood the need for special training in that unforgiving plane. Nice guy too, you should have seen the huge turnout for his funeral. And his son had died in an Air Guard A-10 doing gunnery practice; got target fixation and flew it into the ground. Stick to airliners if you just want to go someplace. And never fly with amateur pilot.

[@peterebel7899]

Darwin's laws ...

[@maxbootstrap7397]

I only fly bush planes, so this question may not make sense for this kind of airplane. My question is this. In an expensive airplane like this, would it not be quite inexpensive relatively speaking to have devices that measure the weight on the 3 wheels and thereby detect CG too far forward or back (and also overweight too for that matter)?

[@malsandford5017]

Perhaps possible medical episode? But agree on complexity versus experience

[@carstuff4u942]

Yeah, or something on the runway?

[@andrewtaylor940]

That's the only thing I could think of that might make some sense. Unless there are some signs of some sort of debris strike? I always remember the pilots that suffered a Deer Strike at Charlotte. But that would leave an obvious mess somewhere. And why the hell don't these things have cvr's? It's a $5 million business jet. Why are recording devices not mandatory?

[@WestPac-ny9vi]

@@andrewtaylor940 I agree with you, all planes should have a CVR and FDR.

[@williampotter2098]

That could be. That we will find out about.

[@theharper1]

@@WestPac-ny9vi considering that "planes" include fabric-wing ultralights, I don't think that "all planes" could or should have CVR and FDR. But I certainly agree that an aircraft as complex as a Hondajet should. There's a lot of largely mechanical small GA aircraft where at least FDR wouldn't be feasible, but maybe something similar to a GoPro behind the pilot with a view of the instruments and recording video with audio would be a good thing for any aircraft with an enclosed cabin? I've been in a number of Ultralights where audio would be unhelpful unless it was connected to the radio; you would just get wind noise.

[@larrybartlett1660]

Mr. Brown please check the weight of jet fuel, in NE it weighs a bit more than 6.0 lbs/gal. Enjoy your channel thanks for the effort you put into it !

[@jiyushugi1085]

The male eqo is far and away the most dangerous factor in aviation.

[@nohandleleft]

Do you have proof? I'd really like to see some statistics. Poor decision != ego.

[@Lloyd364]

No commercials? How do these guys get insurance?

[@geedubb-q1u]

Fueled from a private tank? Is that their own hanger fuel storage tank?

[@silverXnoise]

I was wondering that myself. Hope it wasn’t the copilot’s Gatorade cooler full of drained fuel to sell on the side.

[@blancolirio]

Yes, this caught my attention...trying to save a few bucks on fuel too?!

[@dennisclapp7527]

Thanks Juan

[@bigstick6332]

Was the survivor interviewed? Did that person have no helpful info? Thanks again for the great work you do.

[@johnbriggs3916]

Most of the information reported about loading etc came from the survivor.

[@blancolirio]

Did I not make that clear in the video?

[@johnbriggs3916]

@@blancolirio You did indeed, but not everyone was paying attention 😉

[@bigstick6332]

@@blancolirio you did. What made me think of it again was the no cockpit voice recorder so we might never know. I thought maybe the survivor would have heard something.

[@vigorousboredom7016]

Rustin Randall was a good high school friend of mine. He and I played high school football together. This accident really breaks my heart so I really hope the NTSB can find out exactly what caused this accident. I kind of agree with the narrator about using professional pilots for privately owned aircraft. If in fact it was pilot error that took the life of Rustin, his copilot, passengers, and the driver whose car was hit, then it is probably due to lack of experience and training. Even if I could afford my own private jet, I would use a professional pilot unless I myself had experience as a professional or military pilot. RIP Rustin Randall, Spencer Lindahl and everyone who died as a result of this crash. My heart aches for all families and friends of theirs.

[@igclapp]

Sorry to hear about your friend, but he wasn't the pilot. Spencer was. It looks like maybe Rustin had an interest in flying and had taken some flying lessons as he had obtained a FAA medical certificate at some point. Maybe he was sitting in the co-pilot's seat (that's ok, though a co-pilot is not necessary to fly this plane).

[@vigorousboredom7016]

​@@igclapp I think you're right. I think it was Spencer doing the flying. I have not seen Rustin in decades so I didn't really know what he was up to leading up to his death. It was confusing because some news people said it was Rustin flying and other news people said it was Spencer so I was confused.

[@cjctucson7683]

I might be missing it, but didn't one pilot survive? If so, where is any statement by him as to any problem. Keep up the great work Juan. PS: I have zero GA experience, but it is scary how easy you can die with just missing one detail.

[@roykliffen9674]

I believe you confuse this case with the Amazon 737 crash ....one pilot of a crew of three survived

[@tonyf9076]

​@@roykliffen9674I think you mean the DHL B737 where 1 died with 2 surviving right ?

[@roykliffen9674]

@@tonyf9076 probably

[@johnbriggs3916]

No, it was a rear-seat passenger that survived.

[@cjctucson7683]

@@johnbriggs3916 Thanks John. This certainly is a sad one and with seemingly no obvious cause of the crash. I appreciate your help.

[@bryonraper3506]

Flew an M2 for a minute. During ground school at FSI I was approached by a 250 hour pilot who had just gotten his multi for the “new plane”.During the discussions (unofficial ground training) we had, I advised him to hire a guy to sit in the right seat that had more experience. I hope he did that. When our M2 sold, the new buyer had his “best friend” fly him to see the new plane in his M2. The discussions that followed were nothing less than scary. The lack of even the most rudimentary systems knowledge was frightening.

[@RCFLYERDAN]

@@bryonraper3506 I used to fly the K model back in the early eighties. I wasn’t allowed to fly Captain on it until I had my Type in an HS-125. As you know, forgetting flaps would kill you. Usually happens on a quick turn picking up or dropping off a passenger with the right running. And rotation to Vse angle was a lot of speed to get through until safety climbing. My Chief Pilot had an engine failure at 18. And fortunately over STL. I had a lot of respect for it. But it was a hotrod.

[@DaveJ-BCMA]

Thank you for your videos. I'm hoping to one day earn my polit certificate.

[@WeLuv9x5]

We have significant air time in an HJ and find it to be an exceptional plane. While it may not be ideal solution for most, it more than meets our requirements.

[@112_adventures]

Juan, this one really chaps my hide. As professional jet pilots, you know our takeoff briefing, every single flight. I’d be willing to bet a lack of experience mixed with poor or nil takeoff briefings combined with insufficient airmanship resulted in this (botched) rejected takeoff, past V1. This hits home for me as it happened right in front of the museum I volunteer. It really pisses me off, especially because a kid was involved, not to mention the unsuspecting driver passing by. A coworker witnessed the whole thing too.

[@chrisnoname2725]

Ok but why do you assume nobody except professionals can do things properly? You will hand in any licenses you don’t use professionally? Maybe the arrogance of some professionals is why people don’t want to hire them. If someone is skilled then they’re skilled and if they’re not then they’re not. I had instructors that were arrogant and not as good as some students but they’re the professionals.

[@112_adventures]

@@chrisnoname2725 well mainly because I’ve seen it over and over while investigating accidents in a previous life. It’s rarely those who do it for a living with thousands of hours and years of high level training. More often than not it’s the low time, minimal experienced pilots, operating in an environment they don’t know how to handle when SHTF.

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@112_adventures but this crash was in conditions that anyone should have been able to handle. we allow useless drivers on the road and don’t make them be driven around by professionals. I don’t actually see why people demand that aviation has zero crashes but accept other vehicles crashing.

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@112_adventures The professionals were flying the same aircraft conducting the same or similar operations? Some operations are inherently more dangerous than others. I assume you can accept that but others making comments were complaining about aircraft conducting ag spraying crashing more often than airliners as if there is no difference

[@112_adventures]

@ flying a jet is a situation alone that not just anyone can handle. With proper training and enough experience sure, but not the average low time private pilot.

[@dashford06]

Is the HondaJet the Mitsubishi MU-2 of our time? Both sleek and sexy high performance but narrow envelope airplanes that performed great in the right hands but did not forgive mistakes.

[@TimToussaint]

No, I don’t think so

[@johncox4273]

Have never flown the HondaJet, but have flown the MU-2, and would say the Honda is easier to fly. The MU-2 is a great airplane, but has some quirks that demand proper training and operation. In some ways these small jets are easier to fly than piston twins and multi-engine turbo props.