Fire Boss AT802 Airtanker Crash Helena Montana 10 July 2024

[@michaelalexander2306]

I am retired but used to work in the aviation industry. I have utter respect for those who do this job. RIP.

[@kenclark9888]

Met her once she was a good pilot and a good person I’m saddened by her loss

[@4x4-l2t]

She was an asshole though

[@JeffinTD]

Rest in peace. Fire bosses from the Columbia Gorge regional airport have been zooming over my house lately as they climb off the Columbia river. They really fill a vital role.

[@verde1999]

RIP

[@steveperreira5850]

Very sad, I admire these flying firefighters

[@KNosnhoj]

+1 Jeff. I'm based there myself and always appreciate seeing those Fire bosses parked there this time of year as I head to the hangar.

[@jamiesuejeffery]

My heart goes out to her and her family. In my 30 years of being a pastor, I, unfortunately, buried two helicopter pilots working wildfires in Idaho. I know absolutely nothing about flying, but I know a lot about grief and loss. The one thing I know after presiding at these two funerals is that fire creates really, really dangerous flying conditions. Let’s pray that her life is the only one that has been lost this fire season, especially since in Reno, Nevada, my high temperature today (July 12, 2024) was 108F.

[@andrewhansen4179]

111F in central Washington. New record highs are coming.

[@sanfranciscobay]

80 or 85 in the San Francisco Bay Area seems way too hot for me.

[@bazzmcfury9550]

God bless you. What would we do without folks like you.

[@lyleparadise2764]

My hat always goes off to the brave men and women that respond to emergency disaster situations. Most of us would run away from the danger..........these folks tackle it head on. RIP Julianna and condolences to the families.

[@toma5153]

Another hidden hazard is the possibility of a partially submerged deadhead in the plane's path. Not always easy to spot even in good visibility. Condolences to her family and friends.

[@robinhoodwinker8621]

Jeez I didn’t even think about that. That’s would be extremely dangerous and no time to react.

[@titaniumcassowary]

I live around this area and have seen Fire Boss 205 many times, and have flown into KCOE several times. It’s so tragic, I can’t imagine what her family must be feeling. I hope their hearts are eased knowing she went out trying to save lives. Rest in peace.

[@squawk750021]

@Blancolirio It’s not really a Pilot Induced Oscillation (PIO) It’s an aircraft induced oscillation you are trying to control… when you you touch down on the water at idle or low power setting, the drag pitches the nose forward a bit. Then when we deploy the scoops, that is a big increase in drag and pitch forward (We call the button on the joystick that deploys the scoops the”Rodeo Button”) At the same time you start adding power because the Fire Boss is now slowing rapidly. The PT6A-67F engine is a big turbine for a single engine aircraft producing 1600 horsepower. As you know the larger the turbine the more turbine lag…you go from very little thrust ..a delay.. then lots of thrust and you can easily over torque the engine, so you are working the throttle quite a bit and watching the engine gauge closely on top of everything else. Now the water is oscillating in the tanks, drag is increasing as you accelerate, which oscillates the water more, torque is pulling the aircraft quite hard to the left. Any waves, wake (both boat and other planes scooping) adds to the oscillation. Then the drag of the scoops stops and the aircraft pitches back… both from reduced drag and engine power kicking in. But at 16,000. Pounds the plane isn’t ready to fly, so push forward and the water in the tanks is moving in a different direction. This all happens in 15 seconds The pilot can make it worse by mistiming control inputs trying to manage the oscillation… It’s the most challenging and most rewarding flying I have ever done. Rest in peace Juliana, I congratulated you when you were hired and know you were on top of the world starting your Fire Boss journey. We are terribly saddened you are gone and I can’t imagine what your family is trying to process. I’ve posted scoops and drops of a few fires on instagram @squawk7500 if you’re interested Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[@D1zZit]

My condolences for the loss of your colleague. But a genuine question from your description of flying is why? The engineering on this plane doesn't sound very thought out and given the extreme focus and multitasking required in that brief 15 second window it seems downright dangerous. Don't get me wrong I am not arguing that water landings / scoops are not dangerous, but this particular plane seems to just have outright engineering flaws.

[@FireBosspilot]

Properly set up, ie; speed, flap setting and trim , anticipating initial drag countered with advancing power, skimming with this aircraft becomes a non-event. The instability built into this aircraft is for maneuverability. It’s there by design, not considered to be a flaw. You don’t learn this plane over-night, rather several hundred hours of repeating take-off and landings before you become proficient. It’s not for everyone, it’s a demanding aircraft.

[@squawk750021]

@@D1zZitwith experience it really isn’t bad and the challenge of doing it is part of it. Makes a super versatile aircraft.

[@squawk750021]

@@FireBosspilot100% agree

[@localcrew]

That water loading procedure looks like a handful.

[@jimmy8x541]

Looks incredibly challenging and dangerous.. couldn't pay me to do it. RIP to the brave pilot

[@josephoberlander]

All of these firefighting aircraft are extremely demanding and prone to biting you hard if you do anything wrong. It's a legitimately tough job.

[@GlutenEruption]

It seems like the industry could really benefit from some sort of stability augmentation system that automatically damps out any oscillation during scoops, and maybe dynamically adjusts trim during drops. It might take a while to certify but the technology is extremely mature and available and it would greatly improve safety

[@billorgeorgesmith8700]

As the scoop is deployed the pilot must go full throttle and full back on the stick. They keep a few bases in kmwl and I got to chat with a couple of the pilots. They said it’ll buck as it’s filling even when done correctly.

[@TonerLow]

RIP. I am so grateful for the people who fight fires here in MT.

[@julzb7165]

A very tragic loss of a lovely young lady doing an incredibly challenging job. RIP and condolences to her family

[@dandydapple687]

Very sad indeed! Condolences to all who knew her. 🙏

[@elrobo3568]

As a retired wild-land firefighter and spotter pilot I feel for her family. She was doing something that not many people can or will do. Rest in peace!

[@bobbobertson7568]

What an adventurous person. Becoming a pilot, moving from Brazil, doing this firefighting stuff and running a coffee shop. And a'lot of my weekends are spent just drinking beer. :P

[@aircraftadventures-vids]

And damn accomplished too, 6500 hrs, many of those spent cropdusting (another profession that plucks pilots away)

[@Davi3038849844]

@@aircraftadventures-vids Cropdusting pilots get frightening injuries, these pilots are brave, i wouldnt have nerve for it. My flight school fellows are finishing their cropdustring training.

[@andrewmacdonald4833]

All air accidents are terrible...but when we lose someone dedicated to helping others and providing sterling service...it's even harder. Condolences to her family and I hear she has a 17 year old son...

[@playgroundchooser]

My house is on the satalite view early in the video. The whole city of Helena is in shock. So unbelievably sad. Word on the street is that a wave hit a wing tip and sent it spinning. These brave pilots are amazing, and I can't thank them enough.

[@stevewallace1117]

All boating should be banned when scooping water operations are going on. I saw a Cessna float plane flip when hitting a boat wake.

[@danmartens8855]

What was the wind condition? Was it a boating wave?

[@playgroundchooser]

Pure speculation as a local: I'm thinking they had her going into that canyon to get away from the boat traffic on the bigger lake to the south, but the wind is always an issue here in the summer afternoons. I guess there were people that saw it happen, so we'll probably know sooner than later?

[@josephoberlander]

@@playgroundchooser My guess is a bit of what he was talking about and some waves and the tip of the wing just touched the water. If you start moving back and forth, if you aren't perfectly level, it could easily turn into side to side sloshing of the water.

[@artsmith103]

I don't remember much wind then but there has been brief strong wind. The wake board boat waves can be pretty big but they don't go much where the flight path is.

[@davef.2329]

RIP Juliana and condolences to her family, friends, and colleagues. Thanks, Juan.

[@ronboe6325]

A buddy used to fly the AG version in Colorado. After a spraying run he found himself simply running out of lift and crashed the plane (he walked away!). Even with all his experience he had a bad day. Looking at her approach to the water it makes me wonder if she blundered into a area of air coming down the mountain face and simply lost lift. Way too many failure modes to narrow things down now. Really hard to loose talented pilots like this. :^(

[@CyclerJohn]

At Min 3:00 to 3:35 Juan shows the lake and fire on a map and states the area of the lake where she was trying to do the scoop was only 600 feet wide and surrounded by steep terrain; a narrow gorge?. One wonders why she didn't instead attempt the pickup in the much wider area of the lake to the SE below the dam which appears closer to the fire. The eye witness reports when they come out should be helpful.

[@jersey282]

@@CyclerJohn I guy below in the comments speculates an answer to your questions: "playgroundchooser- Pure speculation as a local: I'm thinking they had her going into that canyon to get away from the boat traffic on the bigger lake to the south, but the wind is always an issue here in the summer afternoons. I guess there were people that saw it happen, so we'll probably know sooner than later?"

[@clarkevanmeter2676]

@@CyclerJohn 600 feet is 10 times wider than the little runways that everyone lands on all day. I don't think this is going to be a factor.

[@JefferyTheriault]

​@@CyclerJohnI was wondering too. Maybe enough wind to make the wave size on the larger lake surface a problem?

[@andyrichards2008]

I watched two big Canadair Cl-415 scoopers loading in this same location Thursday evening, and there are three on site right now, so you’re right - there was plenty of space to operate. They are using the area over the lake to the northwest for their climb out.

[@loopwithers]

As a highly skilled and time served aircraft passenger, I respect Blancolirio because he honours, publishes and defines all the pilots I have ever sat behind

[@queazocotal]

Is there a good reason the tank is not extensively baffled to prevent sloshing? The notion of 'learning to live with' the sloshing seems utterly baffling.

[@PaleoWithFries]

Absolutely this. For a “purpose built aircraft” this seems like they lost their purpose here.

[@davidmihevc3990]

The only thing I can think of, baffles slowing or somehow impeding the loading? Just a guess. Does seem crazy to not have baffles.

[@AC-jk8wq]

Expect the baffles will slow the 15 second fill time, and the dump time as well, to something longer…. Movable baffles would be an interesting idea. More cost and weight.

[@kerrymcdonagh1327]

Foam like they have in race car fuel tanks? Still fills quick.

[@oleran4569]

@@PaleoWithFries Yes! The baffles wouldn't have to be very heavy, or take up much space. Just something to "confuse" the sine waves of sloshing /entering/settling and redirect the water's momentum in enough different directions to cancel out.

[@alexanderdavidson7837]

She had such a large social media presence. Such a shock to see her go.

[@kentuckybowl-o-sticks]

Seems like 100 people a day with "large social media presences" meeting a premature demise. Maybe there's a connection.

[@alexanderdavidson7837]

@@kentuckybowl-o-sticks she was a pro by all accounts. But I feel as though the social media presence gives a sense that we all knew her in a way. Makes her death all the more sad and familiar

[@playgroundchooser]

@@alexanderdavidson7837 I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're right on the money.

[@JoshuaTootell]

I'd say the connection might be people want to find fault somewhere with no investigation ​@@kentuckybowl-o-sticks

[@sheilasembly-crum8447]

My heart and prayers of comfort go out to her family and friends. So sorry to hear of this loss.

[@efo1358]

Thank you for sharing Juan, 🙏❤️😔🕊️

[@MichaelLloyd]

RIP to the pilot and condolences to her family and friends. Always a bad day to lose a fellow pilot.

[@silverwings1843]

I used to ferry Turbine ATs. Up to the 5s. Something odd is that AT accidents have an incredible accident survival rate for Pilots. Even stalls that turn in at at extremely low altitude. The probable reason is the Banjo Tight Web Seat, Cranked 5 point harness and Crash Cage Structure plus Required Certified Helmet. Its possible that she survived the crash but could not get out. Bless Her Heart. Black Feather !!!!!!!!!

[@josephoberlander]

Almost certainly. it's like a race car - you will survive. The issue is.. can you get out underwater, especially since any impact can stun you for quite a few seconds. Or worse, knock you out.

[@calvinnickel9995]

They are designed to crash. I know a pilot who survived one with a few scratches. Unfortunately there are scenarios where nothing is survivable.

[@steinarsaevdal6827]

Thank you for explaining some of the challenges of flying fire fighting aircraft. This is a tragic accident, and Juliana must have been a very special person loved by so many.

[@captbad9313]

A free surface effect, sinks boats in some cases, airplanes are much more tender. She didn't even get the chance to pickle the load. This is a total bummer.

[@markevanson9163]

As an 802 ag and fire pilot (not Fire Boss), I’ll tell you my observation on this event. The flight track indicates to me a concern of wind and turbulence just above the water and below the canyon walls. I believe a sudden loss of airspeed occurred in severe turbulence resulting in an inability to complete the turn onto the final scoop path. I have not seen weather data for that time and location, but know mountain winds in fire weather can easily exceed an aircraft’s limitations and a pilot’s ability to react or compensate. That’s one of the main reasons I’ll wheel land the 802 during fire weather and more often 3-point land in ag weather.

[@vidpie]

Someone with a local connection commented an hour after you: "The winds were very gusty that afternoon out of the north west and can create pretty big waves over that section of lake."

[@artsmith103]

​@@vidpieNorth winds blow against the current there and can make whitecaps on a sunny day.

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Very sad that this pilot lost her life in the performance of her duty. Thanks for explaining things, Juan. Condolences to her family.

[@clintstinkeye5607]

As a former shipwright, I can attest to the value of baffles. Sloshing liquid is a catastrophe waiting to happen. It must be minimalized.

[@martyspargur5281]

Free surface in a boat's tanks is a big deal.

[@clintstinkeye5607]

@@martyspargur5281 - It is.

[@calvinnickel9995]

Baffles are incompatible with scooping and dropping at coverage levels required. It’s unlikely this is PIO. Every seaplane pilot has to deal with porpoising. The usual result on the Fireboss is either a reduced load or pickling the load. A pilot has to do a lot wrong to turn a PIO into a crash. Like those videos of pilots trying to force a nosehwheel on and breaking it after the third or fourth bounce.

[@clintstinkeye5607]

@calvinnickel9995 - I appreciate the input. It's now in my brain/library thingy. When people called me a master craftsman I realized that I'm not. The learning never stops.

[@dereksmith1803]

Such a shame. So sad. Condolences to her family and friends.

[@catherinesarah5831]

Thank you Juan. So sad. My condolences to her, her family & friends & community. 🙏

[@asteverino8569]

Thanks Juan. One of the many things I get from your very informative posts is seeing what responders deal with in doing their job. (Whew, a long sentence indeed.)

[@lead4you]

them 802's are bad ass with floats and you dont expect them to be as big as they are when you see one in person and that huge 5 blade prop i remember seeing the 502s all the time for work and when the guy brough in the 802 i was like wow thats amazing it was a fire bomber also

[@JoshJones-37334]

They are more than 12,500 pounds gross. They are a a relatively forgiving aircraft though. You can even get a type rating waiver if you have enough time in a AT-602 because they fly so similar to each other.

[@elliottmathias]

This happened in my backyard. I'm glad you are covering this

[@georgehaeh4856]

Looking at the steep terrain, my first question would be the local wind and how it would be influenced by the terrain.

[@skyepilotte11]

Sad to loose such an experienced pilot and fire fighter...RIP No one will ever know why this accident happened. Thx Juan

[@Jamez3l]

I knew THOR who went down in a SEAT in Colorado a few years ago. Winds caught him and pushed him down into the terrain. Dangerous is right.

[@d.t.4523]

Our condolences to her family. Thank you Juan, keep working.

[@theblackbear211]

Thanks for the report Juan. A tragic loss.

[@tractorboi55]

Juan, been watching your videos for a long time and always appreciate your input and attention to details in your videos. My parents live a few miles up the lake from where she crashed, my only piece of info I have to add is where you measured the lake is much farther up river. Based on the picture in your title frame the crash happened down river where the lake is much wider and there is no steep terrain to either side. The winds were very gusty that afternoon out of the north west and can create pretty big waves over that section of lake. Thanks again for your review and I look forward to your video on the preliminary report. Best, Rick

[@324bear]

Sending prayers for the family 🙏

[@geofiggy]

Sad news JB. May she Rest in Peace. Thanks for your time and resources. Fly safe. 🤟🏼🖖🏼🙏🏼

[@PlanSea]

I had the honor of flying with and getting to know Julianna this season. Not only was she an experienced pilot, she was also an amazing person. RIP friend.

[@Blowinshiddup]

We had an Air Tractor crash near here in New Brunswick a few years back (Juan covered it briefly), it showed how incredibly tough the structure of those planes is. Unfortunately water crashes add that extra risk.

[@MontanaVigilanteExplorer]

Winds were insane, too. Early the next morning (here in Powder River County), a powerful gust front hit, hot and smokey, that raised the temperature from 61 to 80 in 10 minutes. Dang far east, I know but example of those days. I never saw that in 40 years and not dealing with lakes, canyons or rough water. Salute to all of those who fight to save others. Lived in Helena many years. Good analysis.

[@LordCarpenter]

A tremendous loss. Condolences to the family and friends.

[@silverXnoise]

Thanks to firefighters and support service workers for their often dangerous, difficult, and under-appreciated services. Rest in peace. Prayers for her family, friends, and colleagues.

[@davidchristensen6908]

Respect for this gal. Best wishes to her family. Thank you for your video

[@philofthesouth6019]

Very sad. Thanks for the update Juan.

[@michaelmartin5942]

How tragic. Prayers for all involved.

[@chazbickel4518]

Big thanks to the fire fighting community. Bless up❤

[@HankHillspimphand]

the data of where it adsb info stopped if you look close you can see an unusually island sticking out, now water levels could of made it near invisible? i wonder if she hit that scooping? looking at the map everywhere else is free and clear but that tiny outcropping would be easy to miss?

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

Floats don't appear to have damage commensurate with a solid impact from what I can see of them. Looks more like it cartwheeled based on how the floats were simply ripped off and otherwise intact.

[@johnwoodall3791]

I really Enjoy how you Perceive the Situation & take into account every detail that relates to an Incident. The Method is both as i may have mentioned before Precise & Very Well Researched, Documented as well as Narrated. I'm very sure that upon your completion of Flying Duties you will indeed continue on in this Realm & Present to many Organisations the Knowledge that goes with being up front in the Hot Seat of an Airliner & that Knowledge is Cleary imparted on to us in the clearest of manners. I watched the Videos of the Fire Fighting Teams that you visited & they are a very Unique breed of Pilots & other Specialists. It goes to Clarify Just what it's like to fly in those types of Fire Conditions etc & The Skill levels needed in their flying which leaves very little room for error. As always an Excellent Report on this Incident & as mentioned a great series on the Airborne Fire Fighters of Cal Fire & I also count Coulson in that regard as well. Top Tier People...

[@nicebigdog]

I live in Helena and I knew I'd see a video from you about this. People here are pretty gutted about it. RIP.

[@thezogs95]

RIP and thank you for serving our state! You will be greatly missed

[@MultiSteveB]

Dauntless Air is based currently in my home town of Cleburne, TX (among other locations). My dad used to be the airport manager and was the principal FBO also - for almost 45 years. News of this fatality is a sad day for me and everybody involved.

[@rogerguinn4619]

Slosh is a very difficult thing to analyze. I did it on the LH2 tank for STS and it yielded some really nasty scenarios. On small aircraft- and even roadable vehicles, it can get you into some aituations that are uncontrollable.

[@mysock351C]

I wonder why they didn’t at least baffle the upper portion of the tanks to help limit how much slosh there is? Unless space or some other factor prohibits their use, pilot training and “feel” is not nearly as effective as an engineering solution. At a minimum it at least seems like the frequency of the oscillations could be reduced.

[@rogerguinn4619]

@@mysock351C baffles would slow the "Dump" issue. I do wonder if Vertical Baffles- e.g., turning 2 tanks into 4 or 6 effectively, might help a little. It the inertia of the fluid that causes problems- water (or any fluid) is essentially a frictionless mass doing weird stuff under any acceleration. The dividing that mass up would be a good idea, but you have to be able to dump it FAST!

[@mysock351C]

@@rogerguinn4619 Since its principally an inertial issue my inclination would be to not baffle the whole tank. Don't want to create a bunch of smaller "tanks" that just slosh around at a faster rate (Edit: But this would probably still be better than one large one with all that mass). Also provided the baffles or what have you are high enough they won't interfere with "pickling" the load. This is actually quite insidious as designed as the drag from the floats causes a feedback mechanism with the water. As the weight and drag increases the water further moves forward in the tanks further tiling the floats forward, which continues to increase the drag until the water reaches equilibrium. The process repeats in reverse once it moves back. Its an inherently unstable system. A better approach might be to put slats in the tank instead that introduce eddies as the water flows by, which would at least potentially help spoil the Q. The water does have some viscosity which can be used to help provide damping. While it would require simulation and testing, it might be able to provide some stability during filling.

[@catbertz]

RIP Juliana. May your skies be smooth and beautiful forever after. 🍺😟

[@TJ14142]

The aircraft and pilot would be facing aerodynamic forces, hydrodynamic forces and a dynamic load. Seems like a lot to deal with. Is there any type of pitch stabilization that could help prevent this?

[@gasdive]

In the video I couldn't see a breathing system. Commonly in the rotary wing world they wear a HEED Helicopter Emergency Egress Device (that's a brand name). They're also sold in the SCUBA diving world as the "Spare Air". I'm surprised that they wouldn't be worn for these ops.

[@PlanSea]

We all carry a HEEDS bottle on us.

[@gasdive]

@@PlanSea that's brilliant!

[@PFunk-kt9gc]

Sorry to hear of the accident.

[@erwinschmidt7265]

Juan - Dam....great video, but so sad it took the life of a very talented Aviator to get scoop on it!! I'm still not Pilot, but seems to me that she was surprised by something, to get accident rolling. Whether it was loss of power, scoop mechanism anomaly, or just terrain change she wasn't expecting, something surprised her. Too bad.....RIP!!!

[@centheiatrust9153]

My question is, why was she landing on such a narrow confined lake when only 9 miles to the south was a very large wide open lake?

[@johnslaughter5475]

When I'm in CDA during the summer, I sometimes stop by Pappy Boyington field to watch the Fire Bosses and other tankers flying in and out. When the Fire Bosses are picking up water from Spirit Lake, my house is their IP.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

@@johnslaughter5475 It is rather shocking that in 2024, that field is the only honor for Boyington. He's deserving of having a ship named for him. Yet the Navy never has had one for him.

[@kennethpadgettflightparame3548]

May she rest in peace and may God comfort her family and coworkers.

[@edmundgonzalez8731]

Dang, sorry to hear this. Love watching the videos of them picking up and dropping. As a high school kid growing up on Catalina Island I had a summer/after school job working as a ramper for the local airlines. We had a number of Grumman Goose and various helicopters. The Goose pilots were mostly all WWII vets. Even with their experience, we had a couple catch a pontoon and cartwheel. One of the 'older kids' grew up and started a company called Airborne Fire Attack, with a PBY called California Water Bomber. He crashed back in 97, luckily he and his copilot survived. A very dangerous business and my hat's off to everybody involved.

[@incargeek]

Why are there no slosh baffles in the water tanks?

[@carlwilliams6977]

3:18 The challenging conditions Juan mentions makes me wonder why she didn't use the larger bodies of water showen to the right and left.

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

Probably a conflict with boating traffic on the larger lake, they likely shut down boating ops on that narrower part for the firebombers to use.

[@slowp9934]

Any info on the inflight break up over Southern NY that killed an entire family?

[@billybud9557]

To the two Air Tractor pilots from Idaho on June 20th and for this fine lady..............my condolences. A marvelous plane, the Air Tractor.....but it gets some dangerous assignments.

[@witeshade]

Maybe there's more complexity to it, but that whole process seems incredibly dangerous and designed in such a way as to maximize the threat in all possible ways.

[@maxenielsen]

6000 pounds of water in 15 seconds? Seems to be asking for trouble. The braking force on the plane must be huge. Then there’s the torque generated by that force acting on a moment arm whose length is the height of the CG above the water. Seems they could afford to take a bit more time. And the sloshing ought to be suppressed with baffles.

[@witeshade]

@@maxenielsen I just wonder what happens if you hit a log or an unexpected rock or a wave or something. It'd be a problem at the best of times but if the plane is already undergoing some ridiculous level of dynamic changes it seems like it might make it impossible to meaningfully react to it.

[@josephoberlander]

@@maxenielsen The issue is that they can take more time, but they would need a couple of miles of open water. So they have to balance the danger and their design goal for all of these scooping planes is minimum time in contact with the water.

[@PGU13BHEI]

If you set down the right pontoon and carry the left your weight distribution changes towards the front, so a few oscillations all on the right and you are going into the lake.

[@ellisandrews440]

Very sad for this brave pilot who flys to help others in regard to firefighting

[@PenAirPilot]

As a 4th generation Montanan, local pilot, and frequent fisherman less than an hour from that very location that is a TIGHT and dynamic area (especially when Canyon Ferry is only a couple miles away.....) I'm very confused with their choice of pick up location with other options so very close too.... either way... RIP its a sad day... Lets also not forget the extreme heat and the DA for that area.....

[@GenJackOneill]

I was just thinking the same thing. Last time i was in that area there was alot of debris just under the water. We unintentionally hit alot of it in our boat. Im very confused as to why she decided that getting water from that spot was better than Canyon Ferry. This is a very sad day, RIP.

[@44NorthWyo]

Agree. I lost a good friend in a boating accident on that lake. Hit something he shouldn’t have.

[@playgroundchooser]

@PenAirPilot I'm thinking it was because of the wind we've been having all week. Maybe the canyon offers some shelter? Have you floated the Mo yet this year? The browns are really hungry at Pelican Point right now. 😁

[@Skinflaps_Meatslapper]

@@playgroundchooser They probably used the smaller lake for deconfliction with boaters. The last place I'd want to be in high winds is down in a canyon with all that mechanical turbulence.

[@kenricrose]

Why no baffles in the tanks? Seems like a couple vertical baffles in each tank would damp out fire/aft sloshing while still allowing have load to dump fast out the bottom of the hoppers.

[@cherylgarretson3441]

Condolences to her family. That was an interesting clip of the demonstration

[@peterredfern1174]

Vary sad indeed May she Rest.I.P and condolences to her family.🙏🙏😢🇦🇺

[@umami0247]

Dangerous job for sure. Thoughts and prayers to the family.

[@inspector4133]

I had seen that video when it came out, and wondered at the time why there haven't been any accidents while scooping. It just seemed so inherently dangerous, with so little "wiggle room" for a newer pilot that it seemed inevitable that someone would eventually make a tiny mistake with enormous consequences. Condolences to the family and friends of such a courageous pilot.

[@bradwolfe2993]

saddened by her loss, such a great person doing what she loved with service. Godspeed

[@bens3641]

Why no baffles in these water tanks to prevent/limit the sloshing?

[@boommasterkc-135____8]

It’s always a shame to lose a pilot in the service of saving others. The pictures are usually the same, a grin from ear to ear while in or on the airplane.

[@deborahbabcock5309]

R.I.P. fire fighters pilots have such a demanding and dangerous job. Condolences to her family and all who knew her any worked with her.

[@MrTimeless101]

Why would they be scooping water at the narrow part of the lake and not the wider section?

[@Penfolduk001]

As a non-expert, this seemed odd to me as well. Of course it also depends on whether there was any other traffic in the area. Either other similar planes taking on water or surface boat traffic.

[@MrTimeless101]

@@Penfolduk001 I suppose. dangerous work.

[@Penfolduk001]

@@MrTimeless101 Oh yes. Absolutely. Even if the pilot was 100% spot-on and did everything correctly, it wouldn't take much for a catastrophic accident to occur.

[@ryanbeck3877]

My heart goes out to friends, family and crew of Dauntless. This is a tough and necessary job, and we all know and appreciate the skill and risk involved. God bless and keep you all in this season...

[@JohnnyPerth]

Wow, sad loss. My condolences

[@davidmerwin7763]

Wow. So sad. Great report Juan.

[@rickyism1576]

What a wild and thankless job. I filled tankers including SEAT's one summer, some of the stories the pilots had we're unreal. And some were flying aircraft from the 40's and 50's, they're nuts.

[@taproom113]

Negative, Sir ... they're just aviators. We're all a little ... different 🙃 ^v^

[@ruthmichigander]

May she rest in peace. She did such a service for our country.

[@wazzazone]

Thanks Juan Browne

[@Chellz801]

Rest In Peace to her and condolences to her family. I can’t imagine their pain and loss they are dealing with.

[@unotechrih8040]

I am from Helena, MT (right near this fire) and she is regarded as a hero in our town. We will never forget her sacrifice.

[@playgroundchooser]

@unotechrih8040 I saw some people flying the Brazilian flag on my way to the office this morning. 🥲 🫡🇧🇷

[@Don.Challenger]

What of hitting debris in the water can that also induce the oscillation or disable the floats/pontoons and topple/spinout the skimming aircraft? Was she investigating the fire area and the water source with the twin maneuvers: the loop around the fire and the back and forth on the lake before her touch and go?

[@sman5877]

Juan always is respectful of the pilot and gives benefit of doubt and not jumping to conclusions. Many thanks. Envoy retired.

[@Agwings1960]

Also The floats on the Fire Boss are not rated for a full load just setting on the water the aircraft has to be flying

[@jimliebel201]

Important people these days !!!! Very sad !!! Thanks for your service 🫡

[@Davyjones777yt]

I was out of the country when I heard about this fire, and coming back into Helena, it was so interesting to see the smoke, but I was on the left side of the plane, and it would have been on the right. I was also worried that it was near my house, because I mistook Hauser and Canyon Ferry

[@JFirn86Q]

Terrible loss of a brave and desperately needed pilot, and I'm sure a good person if she choose to be in this profession. I've watched that video with Richard and it was amazing how tricky that loading seemed to be. However, the Fire Boss is an amazing machine that is unequaled in it's ability to combat these fires.

[@Johnny-Michael]

Fire fighting in an Air Tractor is insanely difficult.