Bleak House - Chapters XI-XIII

[@richardreed2323]

I love listening to you while reading the book. Your efforts and intelligence continue to reap benefits for me even two years later.

[@iBernify]

Another 3 great chapters, all so different. The Bayham Badgers are fabulous, so funny, deliciously well described. Bleak House is completely new to me so I am very intrigued by Lady Dedlock and Mr. Tulkinghorn, and Esther’s mystery man. My edition has a lovely illustration of poor Mr. Guppy looking longingly at Esther, and one of the Bayham Badgers. I am hoping there will be a drawing of Hortense at some point! I am really enjoying this readalong and finding your roundup very helpful for my rather useless memory.

[@katiejlumsden]

I'm glad you're enjoying it! Lady Dedlock is such a fascinating character.

[@cynthiaespinoza4514]

I'm loving this read a long, I honestly think in at the point where I'm finally enjoying this book! Haha (I was struggling at first). Thank you, I'll definitely stick with it!

[@katiejlumsden]

I'm glad you're enjoying it now :)

[@laraelwing]

I just now caught up with the readalong, and although I saw the tv series years ago, I have so little memory of everything! It feels like I know nothing, I didn't even remember this gentleman (I googled his name after learning it in the next chapters and I had no memory at all of the actor!). Oh well, then I won't spoil myself anymore and go with it :)

[@katiejlumsden]

Ah, the TV series is great. Enjoy the rest of the reading :)

[@roserobinson6411]

I love trying to figure out the little mysteries, like the connection between Lady Dedlock and poor departed Nemo.

[@katiejlumsden]

It really is so interesting!

[@Maria_Efe]

Great point about Richard and Bingley, though a little sad. I'm really loving this book, even having watched the BBC series; it's so intriguing and atmospheric. It must be very hard for you not to give any spoilers away! XD I find Lady Deadlock fascinating, and I can't wait to read more about her. I also have some sympathy for Richard, though I wish he'd get more serious about his future. I agree that his friendship with Esther is lovely and very refreshing for a book of that time period. Guppy infuriated me in this chapter, always trying to (and succeeding in) make Esther feel guilty about rejecting him! But maybe that new acquaintance of hers will lead to something interesting! ;)

[@katiejlumsden]

It is very hard. When I want to comment on something and can't without spoilers, I just read the passage aloud :) And yes, Lady Deadlock is such a fascinating character!

[@Maria_Efe]

Oh, thanks for the hint! ;) I half-remember the plot from the tv series, and I was screaming internally while reading these chapters! XD

[@rachelport3723]

The Deadlock chapters are written in the present tense, creating an atmosphere of heaviness and torpor, evoking both Sir Leicester Deadlock's unchanging attitudes and Lady Deadlock's boredom and feelings of emptiness, both of which absorb everyone around them in that house. The present tense is also used in Our Mutual Friend for the Veneering chapters, with a similar atmosphere though with a different intent and meaning. Had Dickens lived longer, there might have been some interesting changes in his writing. I don't remember this in any of the early novels - do any of them use it? I reread Middlemarch not too long ago, and for the first time ever thought of Fred Vincy as similar to Richard Carstairs, at first in his inability to interest himself in work because he was expecting an inheritance, and later in his aimlessness. What saves Fred, of course, is his love for Mary Garth, and that is the difference between the two writers. Neither young man is bad or wicked, and both are seriously in love, but Eliot roots Fred's love firmly on the ground, and there are men who help him along the way. This is a realistic novel. Richard, on the other hand, is caught in the snare of a symbolic lawsuit that has already claimed many lives, and is unable to get out, even by his love for Ada, who is the other "ward in Jarndyce." But for both, expectations of some future wealth make them unable to focus on the present. I'll have to think of a resemblance to Bingley.

[@katiejlumsden]

As far as I can remember, it's only Bleak House and Our Mutual friend that use third person past tense in this way. There are some scenes in David Copperfield written in the present tense, but I'm struggling to remember if it's used elsewhere. It's a really interesting to see the use of it. And yes, I can certainly see a similarity between Fred Vincy and Richard.

[@kevingreenwood1900]

This time around reading these chapters I feel Snagsby's reverence for Tulkinghorn is motivated by profit. I don't remember thinking that the first time through. Of Course Mr. T is an important professional and holds the secrets of the powerful but would Snagsby be so accommodating if nothing was to be gained? I'm enjoying this readalong greatly.

[@katiejlumsden]

I think Snagsby is quite accommodating to everyone though? I shall have to look out for it throughout the book.

[@rachelport3723]

Snagsby reminds me of someone, and I just realized it's Mr. Wilfer in Our Mutual Friend. I think he's just kind but overwhelmed by life.

[@kevingreenwood1900]

Yes, especially in the way they are resigned to and accepting of their wives. One wife mistrusting, the other incredibly unhappy and crabby. Snagsby was more successful - but didn't he marry into the business? Boffin was the low man on the totem pole. I remember being happy for him when he got a new suit of clothes thanks to his daughter and the golden dustman's fortune.

[@rachelport3723]

Yes, that is such a touching description, that he never has all the parts of his outfit in good condition at the same time. When I was a child back in the 1950's, my father was like that, never having a car where all the parts were working well at the same time. It gives a picture of someone who is fine with his dependents' needs coming first, and fits with the kindness and responsibility I feel in Wilfer.

[@listenerab]

And yet Dickens shows his true beliefs in Hard Times where he dismisses the Trade Union movement which was the only force for change in Victorian times.

[@CarlosGarcia-ld4yl]

can we read Our Mutual Friend after Bleak House?

[@katiejlumsden]

We read it before Bleak House, so I won't be doing another readalong of it. However, if you want to read at your own pace, I have videos on each section here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKKriJWamsmlmqM

[@CarlosGarcia-ld4yl]

sorry, I just missed that one :)

[@KevTheImpaler]

I had some sympathy with Richard because I did not have much idea of what I wanted to do after school. There seemed to be a limited number of professions for a person Richard's background: medicine, law, clergy, army or navy. Apart from the army, perhaps, they all required quite a bit of brain power and a lot of study. Engineers in those days came from all classes, but you had to have a special interest in it. I think commerce was an acceptable profession, but wasn't trade looked down upon? At least Richard had the brain power if he could compose Latin verse.

[@katiejlumsden]

I sympathise a lot with him too; he's such an interesting character, and when his education has been nothing to do with what he's going to do, it's a difficult choice to make. Commerce would have been acceptable, but probably for that kind of respectable commerce would need more capital than Richard has. Manufacturing would have been looked down on a little more.

[@KevTheImpaler]

I think Latin was required for medicine, law and the church back then: habeus corpus, vena cava, anno domini, etc. In GE, Herbert Pocket needed a lot of money to get into commerce, although was it more than David Copperfield needed to be apprenticed as a proctor (£1000)? There was an eminent Victorian manufacturer call James Nasmyth, who came from quite a posh background. He was a clever chap, but not particularly nice.

[@rachelport3723]

Richard would have had a gentleman's education, which would have included Latin and Greek.

[@KevTheImpaler]

I'm sure all that Latin and Greek acted largely as a barrier to entry to well paid professions. I think that's explored a bit in Jude the Obscure. OTOH you didn't need any Latin and Greek for engineering, which was free to anyone to enter who had talent and dedication. I think that's explored a little bit in Bleak House.