Block Diagram Reduction Control System Examples

[@mostafana7as91]

Thank you for your effort, but I think you have made two mistakes. At 3:00, we are actually moving the summing point after the block not before it (we knew that from the direction of the arrow), so you must have multiplied by H2 instead of dividing. In the next step you also replaced the -ve sign with +ve in the summation point 2. Therefore the final answer should be as follows C/R = (G1G2+G1G3-H2G1G2G4-H2G1G3G4)/(1+H1H2G1G2+H1H2G1G3) I have solved it using other technique and also got the same answer.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Dear Mostafa El Nahas thanks for watching this video as well for your good words. I have double checked both the things that you have mentioned and found them right there is no mistake in that. For your first confusion I am moving that block to our left hand side so before the summing point. Thanks once again for connecting with us. Have a nice day. If you have any doubts then feel free to ask anytime.

[@iTubeItalia]

Getting Mostafa's result, this is a simple block diagram.

[@nkoskhonacebolenkosi2653]

Yes i just picked that up as well. I was worried i might be wrong. He was Supposed to MULTIPLY BY H2

[@sauravchandragyanwali2572]

That's right

[@mohammednomanahmed3866]

Dear Mostafa El Nahas, I've found the answer to be C/R = (G1G2+G1G3+H2G1G2G4+H2G1G3G4)/(1 - H1H2G1G2 - H1H2G1G3)

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Our new video is out for Routh Hurwitz Stability Criterion Introduction Click here and check it out Link :- kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJKsf5KMq7JjotE

[@munizafondoo1322]

Thakar Ki Pathshala ...this video helped a lot....but i m confused about the movement of the summing point....plz explain....an urgent explanation is needed....Thank you

[@KaushalKumar-lp2to]

Bhai 3: 53 sec ke point pe 2 block me - ve sign aayega from input.

[@hidayahramli1588]

if the block diagram have an error,for example H is an error in the above block diagram,do i have still do the block diagram reduction as usual or i have to ignore the error😅😅

[@ralphquincy6151]

Pro trick : watch series on Flixzone. I've been using them for watching lots of of movies these days.

[@eastondominik292]

@Ralph Quincy yea, been watching on Flixzone for years myself :)

[@VIKASKUMAR-ri3cw]

Thanks master sahab bada nik nik video dal le bada ho. Dhnyawaad

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

It's my pleasure Vikas Kumar that you have liked my work. Stay tuned for more updates. Have a good day,

[@yahyaalawadhi2611]

thank you for your lesson, you helped style in the final exam

[@alishamkhi389]

At 4:37 why sign of summing change from negative to positive.Explain please

[@rekhatarunyab5998]

At 4:28 sec how can we change summing point 1 input to summing point 2 sir???plz clarify

[@abhishekmaurya408]

bhaisab aap Kamal ke byakti hai..........isi tarah khub din raat mehanat se kam karo.........

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Abhishek Bhai ham to kamal ke hai ya nahi pata nahi bas aap logo ka pyar aur support hai jiski vahej se ham kam karvate hai. Bas isi tarah aap hame pyar aur duaa ae dete rahiye. Aap ka din shubh rahe.

[@hariharans3891]

2:37 according to signal flow the summing pt is moved after H2 so that G4 will become G4*H2

[@kalpeshgade4606]

I have doubt sir.. mistake at 3:00..N it should be G4*H2 bcoz phenomenon of shifting takeoff pnt or summing pnt before or after the block is depend on the direction of arrow so here in above case there is shifting of summing pnt after the block as shifting is in direction of arrow. if I went wrong pls clear the doubt...

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Dear Kalpesh gade thank you for watching and sharing your doubt with us we will try our best to solve your doubt. For moving summing point before a block or after a block you don't have to look for any arrow you just have to look that if you are moving it before of after the block. In our case we are moving summing point before block means we have to add inverse gain of that block. That is it simple. If you want to learn more about all 10 rules of how to solve block diagram reduction problem then watch our this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHTbnKucopiJapY .If your doubt still persists then feel free to contact anytime happy to help you. Have a good day. and keep learning.

[@ankur0148]

won't the direction matter, I mean the arrow tells us the direction for us to decide before or after the block right? Even I feel Kalpesh gade is correct.

[@srinivasprabhu4908]

Kaplesh gade is right cuz the direction changes. if u have a doubt write the equations manually before solving the block diagram . have a nice day!

[@anuragdobriyal1414]

Thank you Sir, your explanation was perfect. You make this subject look easy. Looking forward to more such videos on Control systems. Please keep posting. All the best.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thank You Garuna Layirbod for appreciating my work. Have a good day.

[@tricksguru7883]

super and simple

[@fahadkamran5161]

Thank you so much.. This helps me alot

[@YouKnowMeDuh]

I see you have an arrow pointing upward into H2 at 2:58. Was this meant to be up into the summer after H2, instead? Otherwise the series combination afterward doesn't make sense to me.

[@RohitRohit-dr3hp]

Thank you bro

[@aniloutla7931]

nice sirrrr..it's very important for me

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

It's my pleasure Anil outla that you have liked my work. Stay tuned for more updates. Have a good day.

[@yashj1072]

At 3:00 why did you put the arrow of 1/H2 into H2 rather than putting it in summing point according to the rule you stated in previous video? Thanks in advance for helping.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

That was the mistake the arrow should go into the summing point it was corrected in the next step. Sorry for the mistake. Thanks for watching and outlining the mistake. Have a good day.

[@yashj1072]

Yes as soon I switched over to next slide I discovered it was a mistake.

[@sebastianklocker9100]

Thanks for the video. So one question about the reduction which confused me. When applying Rule number 5 at 2:38, you are actually moving the summing point ahead of H2 and not back. You are not moving the summing point back because the summing point is already before H2. (Just taking a closer look at the arrows and paying attention to the direction of the signals)

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thank You Sebastian Klocker for sharing your query. In this video if I am telling that I am moving something before the block than I will move that thing in the direction of left hand and if I tell that I am moving after the block then I will move it to the right hand side. I hope this explanation may have solved your doubt if not then feel free to ask anytime. and if you want to get more clear idea or want to share something drawing or picture then you can direct message us on facebook than you can direct message to our facebook page ( facebook.com/thakarkipathshala )

[@ilshadkhodabaccus6541]

notice a mistake there at 3:00....should be G4*H2

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

ilshad khodabaccus that is not mistake because if you will look at that closely then there is no H2 but there is 1/H2 so it will be G4*1/H2 = G4*H2. I hope you have cleared your doubt if not then feel free to ask. Thank you for connecting with us. Have a great day.

[@ankur0148]

how is G4*1/H2 = G4*H2 ???

[@ambaradhikari7425]

@@ThakarKiPathshala high weed ?

[@mahendrarathore346]

sir this is nice video. I have solved my some problems but I want to more examples..

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

It's my pleasure Mahendra Rathore that you have liked my work. Thank you for connecting with Thakar Ki Pathshala. Have a great day. Keep learning. Reply ·

[@iShaltSmiteThee]

Thank you for your help. Great explanation!

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thanks for appreciation. Have a nice day.

[@lolysnow4647]

thank you helped me a lot

[@errkv1675]

Dear sir your videos are really awesome for control system and i request to you sir please make video on test signals like unit step or ramp or impulse or prabolic signals which highly need to know for a eee students sir and concept of these must be clear before further study of control system like transient time response or steady state response ... sir plz clears this type of test signals.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Dear Rahul it is my pleasure that you guys are liking my work also thank you for connecting with us. I will try my best to serve my knowledge with the world. Stay tuned for further updates. Have a great day. Keep learning.

[@errkv1675]

+Thakar Ki Pathshala thanks sir

[@bsmanke9760]

Many thanks very clear explanation, me B.S. Manke author “ linear control systems”

[@aleksjabraka8126]

Thank you so much!

[@prasadborkar1257]

Sir plz upload video for shortcut method of block diagram reduction so that we directly get final answer in just 2 minutes

[@codingnaturetech790]

Good thing sir

[@yashj1072]

Why don't you make videos on other tough concepts in Electrical Engennering. You have a nice way of explaining things. It wil grow your channel even more.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

It's my pleasure that you are liking my way of explanation. Sure I will make more videos in near future right now I am working on more than one things but after 4 to 5 months I will give more time to youtube after that you can get videos consistently. Thanks again for such wonderful words. Have a Great Day.

[@furryball2620]

Yash J 8790730292nd

[@nikhilyamalwar9146]

In the given problems you are given - ve sign to +ve how it Is

[@danduino7057]

At 3:35 to 3:39. I guess your just moving summing point 1 to the left side of summing point 2 and nothing changed in connections. How the negative sign at summing point 2 gone? Thank you and sorry for my grammar :)

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Danilo Paglicawan thank you for watching and sharing your query with us. I have read this at this time I am some what busy but as soon as I get some time I will answer your question. Have a nice day.

[@pritidsouza357]

Thakar Ki Pathshala sir please! give sol

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Priti Dsouza and Danilo Paglicawan thanks for your patience it happened by mistake i have looked into that and the sign should not change. Thanks have a great day.

[@danduino7057]

Sir Thakar Ki Pathshala, may I request for the right answer? I am new with this wonderful lesson which you had taught in this video. And, do you have a video tutorial of getting the transfer function of a certain circuit with the help of electrical methods? Thanks for your respond and have a great day as well.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

No Danilo Paglicawan right now I do not have such kind of video tutorial on this channel and there is no plan for such in near future because right now I am working on the video series of Routh Hurwitz Stability Criterion. But I am sure you will find it if you google or you can look for this book called "Modern control system by dorf and bishop" this book has some very good explanation about topics of control system. I hope you have got your answer if not then feel free to ask happy to help you and I appreciate your efforts to learn new things keep it up. Have a good day.

[@SagarShah654]

nice explination

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thanks Sagar for your compliment.

[@Baldeepsarwara]

sir plz can you explain rule no.4 in more detial, when to apply and much more. it will be very helpful. Thanks

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thank you Baldeep Sarwara for sharing your query with Thakar Ki Pathshala . Rule No. 4 is about changing the input of summing point which are after one another means there should be no block in between the summing point the summing point must be connected directly. It is called as associative law of summing point which is just as associative law in algebra 2+3 =5 or 3+2=5 both are same but to simplify the diagram we have to take this step. I hope you have got your problem solved if you have still any query regarding this or something else then feel free to ask anytime Thakar Ki Pathshala will do best to clear your doubts. Have a good day. Keep learning.

[@Baldeepsarwara]

sir, one thing more i want to ask. Is their only one way to solve a problem or we can solve by different ways.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

No this is not one and only method to solve block diagram reduction problem there is another method which is called as Signal flow graph I think that you must be familiar with it. So what you can do is convert the given block diagram into signal flow graph and then solve it via that technique. But in examination if they specify to solve the problem to solve by any particular method then you have to use that only. Thank you for sharing your query with Thakar Ki Pathshala.I hope you have got your problem solved if you have still any query regarding this or something else then feel free to ask anytime Thakar Ki Pathshala will do best to clear your doubts. Have a good day. Keep learning.

[@100rabhkr_India]

sir when you moved the summing point between H1 and H2 to left of of H2, why did 1/H2 got in the same line with G4. Cant it come from the left of summing point before G1(G2+G3)

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

thanks saurabh kumar for watching and raising question around this topic pleas watch this portion from 2.25 to 3.02 of this video I think you will get your answer if not then ask again happy to help you. Have a nice day.

[@pritidsouza357]

sir that sign how did it Disappear when u used rule nos 4 ,can u reply to it fast coz we have internals coming up

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Priti Dsouza and Danilo Paglicawan thanks for your patience it happened by mistake i have looked into that and the sign should not change. And best of luck for your internals from Thakar Ki Pathshala.

[@pritidsouza357]

Thakar Ki Pathshala thank u sir! do keep on making videos

[@sugambanjara6780]

many mistakes in this video plz check correctly

[@palamsujatha4026]

Need example using your rule number 10

[@sushreesbarik6194]

Tq sir....

[@nikhilyamalwar9146]

I understand but one more problems on block diagram will solve plz

[@vickyvm6]

Sir please do more different problem on solving block diagrams. Thnx in advnce 😊 😊

[@_war_cry]

Mr. Mostafa has rightly pointed out your mistakes. Summing point is going AHEAD of H2. You have treated as though it is the opposite case. Do the math it will not add up. Before moving the summation point: (H1 + H2).G4 = H1.G4 + H2.G4 After moving the summation point: (H1.H2) + G4 Hence, G4 needs to be multiplied by H2 to make before and after situations mathematically equal. You have divided G4 by H2 and, as I have proved above, it is wrong. I read your reasoning to Mr. Mostafa's argument. You said summing left and hence H2 should be divided by G4, as per the rule. But the direction of flow of events in this situation is opposite to that stated in the rule & hence your counter-argument to him is also incorrect. Please add this correction in the video so that people don't learn the incorrect answer.

[@mohammednomanahmed3866]

Using your rules in another video, I've found the answer to as C/R = (G1G2+G1G3+H2G1G2G4+H2G1G3G4)/(1 - H1H2G1G2 - H1H2G1G3) The mistake is at 3:00, because in rule numbers 5 and 6 you've mentioned the terms "before the block" and "after the block", not "right or left" of block.

[@samueltoppo1825]

There is one wrong..Rule No. 6(moving summer before a block) has to be used instead of rule 5.

[@meeramorghade974]

make video for genric processor block diagram

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thank You Aman Morghade for watching and commenting on this video but there is no plan for making the video on the topic you have suggested in the near future but I have write it down in my suggesting bank.Have a good day. Keep learning.

[@mriganksharma6421]

I think you did a slight mistake..it will be H2*G4

[@Horseyhorse60]

i got this im jenuis

[@Horseyhorse60]

:(

[@rahulkumar_777]

Rule no 9 and 10 se problem kon btayega

[@parthbajaj]

Hellow Frands!

[@aayushichayal2452]

Typical problems on to shift. Take off point. Behind or beyond the summing point

[@abhaykondru3570]

Sir final answer is wrong

[@shafinshafayat103]

there is a wrong in feedback loop u given + sign instead of - sign. absolutely a wrong

[@kdrchandu5110]

Sir you did lot of mistakes in this video once again check it

[@mamataroy4522]

Its wrong in some points..doesnt match with the final answer of book

[@rooster443]

I don't know anything he just did. So I used Mason formula and came up with this. Maybe it's wrong in a sign, but I'm sure I followed up the steps. This may shed some light in your quest. (G1G3+G1G3G4H2+G1G2+G1G2G4H2)/(1-G2G3+G1G3H1H2+G4H2+G1G2H1H2-G2G3G4H2)

[@HD-vz7mb]

It's wrong at shifting summing point.

[@ThakarKiPathshala]

Thanks harsh deswal for sharing you concern here. Please provide time mark so I can look into the matter. Have a nice day.

[@ambaradhikari7425]

@@ThakarKiPathshala 4:37 check

[@ganeshlandge6527]

"-"sign kaise gaya hua

[@vanimunna3954]

bro G1G1G4 IS CORRECT OR IT IS G1 G2 G4

[@hindustaninaveen2283]

hindi boliye

[@ankursiwatch8199]

galt padhata h