BotR Does The @Riflechair Cabin Fever Challenge 2023: Division 5 (Muzzleloading)

Organised by @Riflechair in Canada, Bloke and Chap attempt the Cabin Fever Challenge 2023 in Division 5 (Muzzleloading) at 50m on an 8" target. How did they get on with Chap's French 1859 Chasseur carbine, loading from as-original-as-possible paper cartridges?
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.22lr

[@mgreen7063]

Don't muzzleload, don't do target competition w rifle, and the weather makes me think of here, today (MN). But I thoroughly enjoyed watching both of these. Thanks very much.

[@ditzydoo4378]

Ah ha, I know my division, #5. I will use my handmade custom Long Rifle in .54 caliber. 1-66 twist (old school) Green Mountain barrel 33". A swaged 230 grain patched .535" round ball over 60 grains of FFg powder touched off with a CCI #11 cap. I shoot this the first and second Sunday of each month at our two local Black-Powder club meets. I must say that is a very generous 50-yard/meter target I will enjoy this very much. Though you may need to time me with an hourglass.

[@18robsmith]

Hmm, The Bloke making smoke and flames - he should do it more often.

[@YerluvinunclePete]

That was some smooth muzzle loading by The Bloke!

[@itatane]

Well done on getting out there and having a bit of fun, you two. If it weren't for the lovely scenery, I would swear you were suffering through a miserable, cold, soggy March day in Northeast Ohio. Your range makes me a tad green with envy. I need to find a new range to go shooting at. My old one closed, and most of the ones I have found require a character reference from an active club member.

[@simonjones6128]

740g cannon balls. Great stuff Mike and chappie

[@wittsullivan8130]

Shoot me like one of your French guns, Jack. :) Last Saturday, I visited our county's 4-H muzzleloading team during their practice. They're the first whole team to compete at the 4H National Muzzleloading competition. Part of nationals is to shoot at targets 100 yards away. They also have to shoot steel silhouettes at various distances, up to 100 yards for the ram. This was the first time they had shot at 100 yards, they cut their teeth at 50 yards. They were shooting a variety of TC and Lyman rifles, .50 and .54 caliber, all percussion. I brought my TC .54 rifle in case someone needed it, but I also brought my Italian replica 1854 Springfield musket rifle (.69) caliber with some paper cartridges I had made with 60 grains of Triple 7 and minie balls (I had bought a few lbs of Triple 7 a few years ago, I'm using it up before it goes bad). I also brought my Indian replica British naval carbine that's .75 caliber. I brought some paper cartridges loaded with 60 grains of 2F Goex and a .68" lead roundball, loaded in the US musket style, with string. I loaded and fired the carbine at an 8" round gong at 100 yards and missed it by "that much". 4 of the youths loaded it and fired it. The girl in the bunch was intimidated during my demo shot, even though she closed her eyes before she pulled the trigger, she still "killed" a British soldier, even if it wasn't the one she was "aiming" at. She did the same thing when she fired the percussion rifle musket and completely whiffed, but the rest of us would have killed a Yankee each. We were all shooting offhand. Next time I'll set up a proper target stand to have a proper reference. At 50 yards, I can get an 8" group with minie balls and a 5" group with a patched roundball with the '54 Springfield rifle musket and an 8" group with my Indian 1766 Charleville musket with a .66" roundball with just the paper cartridge as support, no patch, and 60 grains of 2F Goex. The Springfield with minie balls kicks like a mofo. It's a 720 grain bullet going about 600 fps. :)

[@Armored_Muskrat]

Almost makes you wonder if round balls wouldn't be more accurate. Wow. Glad you had fun, though! :)

[@thebotrchap]

At this stage yes. It’s work in progress. I believe the load was at least partially to blame. I used the service charge but I also need to compensate for the original powder quality and grade. I think the finest Swiss PB is far too spicy and damaging the minié in the bore. With some ladder load testing I’m sure it will redeem itself.

[@keithplymale2374]

Gotta love good old black powder. Smells like...victory, does it not? Good show Bloke and Chapie.

[@pmgn8444]

Nice shooting guys! Good to see The Bloke getting 'muzzled' for a change.

[@mikethomas5510]

Reading Brett Gibbons at the moment. Is some the paper sticking to the bullet occasionally. Makes a noise while giving a lot of deviation.

[@ryanniksch4174]

This so make me want to get into black powder! The two of you are such a delightful influence

[@jeffersoncarlisle3125]

Nice shooting....just shooting my Traditions Kentucky Flintlock this evening...good at 50 yards, 100 not so much.....

[@LOVEMUFFIN_official]

Someone said Chassepot…I assume Ian will be appearing shortly.

[@cedhome7945]

If Ian shows up we can start the forgotten weapons drinking game...every time Ian tries to speak French take a stiff drink !

[@lwrii1912]

Always enjoyable watching you guys.

[@petesheppard1709]

Thanks for sharing your fun!

[@wrxs1781]

Good effort lads, same sort of weather in Ontario. Chap where did acquire the cardboard powder tubes, I use plastic and they hard to make and brittle.

[@thebotrchap]

12 min 45s in on this vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5mqknqdn6yKd7c

[@gatlingbert]

This weapon looks familiar to me ; ) Great video

[@3DVIDEOSMurray]

"You got to have good teeth" XD

[@ausgixxerpilot]

You guys are getting a lot of variation in seating depth on that ramrod, inches of difference between them. Looks like fun though.

[@thebotrchap]

Yeah I noticed that when reviewing, it might explain that one tumbling bullet.

[@LadyAnuB]

@@thebotrchap Mark the ramrod so you know when the bullet is seated at depth?

[@thebotrchap]

@@LadyAnuB Just paying more attention will do. Good illustration of what can happen when muzzleloading under stress though.

[@stewbacca117]

A British marksman, with a French rifle, on a Swiss range. #SipsTeaWithIntrigue 🤔🤙☕🧐🇬🇧

[@William_Bryant]

When it’s with muzzleloaders, is it called *____* Minute Madness?

[@TheOz91]

I've always been a fan of repeating firearms, semi-autos and bolt actions in particular, but there is a romantic side of shooting muzzleloaders, especially old military muzzleloaders using paper cartridges. I will definitely need to shoot muzzleloading rifles before I die!

[@jeffersoncarlisle3125]

Been having a great time with my Traditions Kentucky Flintlock from Dixie Gun Works lately....

[@Lemonjellow]

Finally a proper firearm for the Chap! 🧐

[@cedhome7945]

Next level below.... matchlock go on you know it will be fun !

[@thebotrchap]

I would very much like to add a repro matchlock to my arsenal

[@owensmith7530]

Surely there is flintlock and wheellock in between, or do they compete in the same category as matchlock?

[@thebotrchap]

@@owensmith7530 all muzzleloaders are in the same category regardless of ignition system.

[@alanfhall6450]

Clangers are always good! Just watch out for the chicken.

[@verfugbarkite]

Needing the toilet now.

[@berganalphabet]

What's that sweater or fleece thing in the first clip? That looks so cozy, definitely want to buy my own!

[@thebotrchap]

It is. It’s an old slightly moth eaten French military woolly pully that Varusteleka had. Don’t know if they still have them.

[@berganalphabet]

@@thebotrchap Awesome, I'll try hunt one down. Appreciate the quick reply

[@myparceltape1169]

​@@thebotrchap Unless you like your old clothes as much as me you could make him an excellent offer, but you might have to pay more tax on the profits.

[@martialgmail7098]

Suite a tes videos, j'ai acheté un PA15 car je cherchais quelque chose de différent. Pour info, si la législation de ton secteur le permet, l'armurerie ADM a des chargeurs en stock. Bon tir

[@thebotrchap]

Heureux de vous avoir inspiré 👍 Dommage que la législation m’empêche de sourcer des chargeurs en France 😢

[@stuartbennett7614]

Could you guys roughly recreate the tom plunkett shot ??

[@thebotrchap]

Britishmuzzleloaders is working on just such a project.

[@stuartbennett7614]

@@thebotrchap brilliant I look forward to it 😀

[@cgdeery]

80gn of powder..lol. Try going down to around 50.. works for my R.E.A.L lump of lead out of my Enfield.

[@thebotrchap]

It was the service load BUT I reckon that the powder was of far inferior quality and of coarser grain. I need to adjust the load accordingly. It’s all part of the fun 😅

[@hello-825]

Another great video! Whats the math behind the competition? How come its worked out that way?

[@thebotrchap]

You’d have to ask Riflechair for the reasoning behind the formula. We just do what we’ve been told 😅

[@BlokeontheRange]

It's a variant of Comstock scoring: 100x(hits x 5)/(time from first to last shot in seconds)

[@hello-825]

@@thebotrchap :) Yes Sir, Very good Sir, Right away Sir. ;) The videos in French are superb also.

[@hello-825]

@@BlokeontheRange Thank you very much Sir. I will do some research. Thanks for the great work. Entertaining and educational.

[@rickoshea8138]

How much does that rifle weigh? It looks like 12 lb - as if one can judge that on a screen...

[@BlokeontheRange]

3400g with empty mag. 7.5lb. Fits the CMP Rimfire Sporter weight limit. But it's going to get a lighter forend and a 1-6x LPVO and I'm going to do some playing about with that discipline with it.

[@F1lmtwit]

So a smoothbore?

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, it's rifled

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

Schönes Gewehr.

[@RicArmstrong]

Since both of you have British accents, wouldn't this be BlokeS on the range? 😁

[@TheOz91]

Because The Chap is actually French ;)

[@RicArmstrong]

@@TheOz91 Ahh, that explains it. 🇨🇵🇨🇭🇬🇧🇺🇸

[@Lemonjellow]

How dare you sully the Chap's name with such accusations!

[@Sman7290]

Truly a "multicultural" endeavor.

[@thebotrchap]

@@Lemonjellow why?

[@dmg4415]

Why not having a Carbine fewer?

[@mikethomas5510]

We are not allowed to have an open tin of caps on the firing point at our range.

[@BlokeontheRange]

We're not allowed to use powder flasks other than for priming.

[@owensmith7530]

Whether the tin is open or not would affect the speed of firing. For this challenge you want to get results that can be compared.

[@mikehoare6093]

nice rifle ! 1. why the bad grouping ? 2. how much dd you pay for this rifle ? 3. mabe use "blick" for wrappers ? it´s anyway not worth reading...

[@thebotrchap]

1. Cartridge setup was not good. Paper not so good, too much powder of the wrong type also lube probably too soft and soaking the paper. 2. As much as I was prepared to pay. 3. After some testing last weekend, cheap squared « maths » paper seems the best.

[@mikehoare6093]

@@thebotrchap 1. ahh je compris, thanks mate 2. ok, ok, what would be a realistic pricerange if I wanted to buy one ? 3. hah, heared that before, very intersting. I´ll give it a try, thanks again.

[@thebotrchap]

@@mikehoare6093 2. iirc I got it for 1000€ out of Belgium. Usually they go for 1500+ within France. It’s always more expensive to by guns of a nation in said nation 😆

[@mikehoare6093]

@@thebotrchap thanks a lot, mate ! that´s still a good price, I want to compare it to my petrovic-francotte.

[@crossfirerambo]

What is it that major sharpe says makes a good soldier?

[@jaschathane134]

Keeping his mouth shut when he's asked damn-fool questions by a superior officer sir!

[@tedarcher9120]

Five rounds per minute sir!

[@crossfirerambo]

@@tedarcher9120 3. In any weather

[@willymeaux]

Is the bloke taking a wee while he’s filming???

[@BlokeontheRange]

There's a drainpipe you can see against the baffle wall that's outletting onto rocks...

[@koljya]

@ 10:17 as a married bloke you shoudn't be bragging about your misses, should you?

[@tedarcher9120]

What is the fastest muzzleloader in the world?

[@thebotrchap]

There isn’t one. The speed comes from the user and the chosen method of loading.

[@tedarcher9120]

@@thebotrchap not every muzzleloader can accept every way of reloading. You can also make a muzzleloader use self-contained cartridges out of nitro paper, but they wouldn't work in a flint musket

[@tedarcher9120]

@@thebotrchap the fastest muzzleloader possible would be a smoothbore using Nessler ball fully combustible cartridges with a Maynard priming system. I bet you could get 10-12 rounds per minute with one, but I doubt they existed historically

[@thebotrchap]

@@tedarcher9120 I had forgotten about the self priming mechanisms. Austrian and Swedish self priming flintlock muskets would also be up there in that case. It would be interesting to know if revolver-type combustible cartridges were used scaled up in the military rifles. It would have been difficult logistically I guess.

[@tedarcher9120]

@@thebotrchap I don't see a reason they wouldn't, they were probably not used because they are very prone to damp

[@GunnerAsch1]

Has that rifle been fired with ball? Terrible group for Minie ball. That should shoot sub 1' at 50. Or the rifling is absolutly missing. Its not the shooters.. its the load or rifle. Id bet that it could shoot sub 6"

[@thebotrchap]

The rifling is fine so it’s definitely an ammo issue

[@myparceltape1169]

​@@thebotrchap I had thought you were going to explain that you gave Bloke the best ammunition.

[@GunnerAsch1]

@@thebotrchap It would be interesting to start at about 30 grains and work your way up about 10 grs at a time. Load and fire 3 rounds, increase charge 10 grs, shoot 3, and keep going to your 80gr full charge. You should see some good groups in that range. There is no need to shoot targets at full power. This assumes your minie balls are well cast of pure lead. It helps to lubricate the minie as well.. While Im not an expert on shooting black powder arms. Ive popped 75k rds of it. Hunting, competition, plinking in the last 55 or so yrs.

[@GunnerAsch1]

Oh.. and try round ball as well. Rate of twist is quite important with bp projectiles.

[@thebotrchap]

@@GunnerAsch1 It’s a minié rifle designed specifically for the heavy bullet I’m using. My suspicion is that the service charge was too much. The original powder grainage is unknown but I suspect the Swiss 2F is faster and more potent and that it doesn’t agree with the first few mm of skirt which is fairly thin. The bullet worked ok in the tiny 1829Tbis carbine with far lighter load.