"Blown up" HM7000 pros and cons from my perspective.

[@allanmorton6022]

Totally agree with all your points. I bought a refurbished ipad as didn't want to use my phone. You can get them starting at less than £100. Also had to buy hornby power supply as gaugemaster dc analogue is a cause of burn outs. Great video.

[@PaulBriden]

Exactly!. Cheers. I have sent whatever I had back and will not touch it ever again. Good Luck.

[@Teesbrough]

Hornby will be releasing an 08 shunter with HM7000 DCC sound fitted as part of their 2023 range but not now until Spring 2024. Price £263.99. TMC have on order a Bachmann Class 08 DCC ready for £119.96 reduced from £149.95 RRP. I’m still very interested in trying out HM7000 but I might wait a few more weeks until I see how common is the problem with chips blowing so quickly.

[@PaulBriden]

Myself and the Carpet Kid are not the only ones to have chips blow up. They have had a few. I did look at putting my chip and stay alive in one of my class 08's. I could not see how to make it fit so I took the easy option. From the figures you provide you have made my point. Providing you already have a quality DCC controller £120.00 for the loco, £120.00 for the Legomanbiffo Decoder, speakers are peanuts. The price is around the same. If your time is not free then obviously not. I have just gone onto the Hornby website : LMS, Princess Royal Class 'The Turbomotive', 4-6-2, 6202 - Era 3 (Sound Fitted) R30134TXS | 1:76 Scale 00 Gauge. £312.99 Obviously not the same loco but the same class : NEW Hornby R3999 LMS 4-6-2 Princess Royal Class Princess Victoria 6205 DCC Ready Brand new. £169.00. I can put sound and a chip in this for around £300.00 Hornby have been clever with their pricing, however, if the chips keep blowing up no matter how clever they are all points are mute. Have a great day.

[@PebblesChan]

Thanks for the great vid. A pity about the blow up. With already 2 known HM7000 decoder blowups both with Railmaster analog power supplies it’d be interesting to get an oscilloscope capture of the instantaneous voltage and current outputs to see if any unwanted & back EMF spikes are present.

[@PaulBriden]

I do not know, all I know is the chips are blowing up if anything but a Hornby analogue controller is used to power the chips. The problem is no one users Hornby analogue controllers, they head for the bin and people buy gaugemaster or another of the same ilk. It is a shame because this will fall like a stone if they do not sort it.

[@greathorton]

I used Notebook Power Adaptor (15VDC output) as a source of HM7000 21-pins, but suddenly the HM7000 blown up after playing less than 10 times. I don’t know why?

[@PaulBriden]

I sent all my HM7000 stuff back, I am having nothing more to do with the product.

[@StormmyStormmy]

Hi, good review on the HM7000, i was wondering about the class 08, nobody has reviewed a HM7000 decoder in a class 08. Fair play to Hornby for bringing in their bluetooth system, Their Dublo locos are very expensive and they don't even have sound, i still live in hope that Accurascale will produce a class 08, i believe it would be superb, if your a Hornby die hard then you will welcome the HM7000 system without doubt, at least the TTs chips fitted into Bachmann locos without any hassle.

[@PaulBriden]

I think I would struggle to fit the super capacitor and chip into a class 08. We thought about it but decided it would be too much grief. Cheers.

[@ffsdenny522]

I’ve fitted a Hornby chip and stay-alive to an 09. Was actually pretty easy, only a small amount of material needs to be removed from the front of the control desk. The power-bank sits nicely in the cab whilst still allowing for all the details to remain. 15 min job all in all. Well worth it, the performance is now absolutely faultless.

[@PaulBriden]

@@ffsdenny522 I never thought of taking a file to the control desk, I just took it apart and realised that it would not all fit. I guess I am not creative enough. I bulk at filing parts away to make things fit. However I get it, and well done.

[@Trainskitsetc]

I think you can guess what its meant to fit from the sound profiles available. Sure they'll add another smaller one to the range one day and release appropriate sounds to flag that it fits

[@PaulBriden]

True, but they do include the Class 08. As I have previously said I think they are more concerned about the chips blowing up if powered by anything other than a Hornby analogue controller. Good evening.

[@Trainskitsetc]

@@PaulBriden the manual does give a list of controllers they have tested that don't cause issues, and then go on to say some others may work. So I'd just get one off the list and not be the guinea pig for finding out what doesn't work. From what I've seen it does work nicely if its set up right and seems pretty user friendly.

[@PaulBriden]

@@Trainskitsetc You are missing the point. This was sold on the pretext that all you do is put the loco on the track download the app and away you go. So you are advocating that we all spend our coin on a controller that suits Hornby that is nowhere near as good as what we have. I have read the pdf page 16 and 17 of the reference manual and nowhere does it mention controllers other than Hornby. In fact, the Hornby controller that I do have for our Xmas layout the HM 2000, they do not recommend. Hornby have been lazy, the Gaugemaster analogue controllers are the most popular by far and easily the best. They know they have a problem and they will sort it.

[@Trainskitsetc]

@@PaulBriden was kinda obvious thats the case if your stuff is all hornby. I'd say thats why the instructions say as much.

[@Trainskitsetc]

@@PaulBriden "There are many analogue controllers on the market and in use, clearly, we have not tested all of them. They may work OK... we suggest checking the forums for user information and user comments re any particular controller... " So basically, try your luck at your own discretion. Because its a hornby product that works best with other hornby products aimed first and foremost at users of other hornby products. Not really laziness. Storm in a teacup

[@BritishRail60062]

I tried this decoder and to be honest. I am not impressed with them and I have moved back to Dapol and ESU traditional decoders. I covered mine in an N gauge Class 60 with the Next18 version but it is VERY tight fitting and it will not fit any narrow body diesel engines like a Class 58 or a Class 70. I tried it, didn't like it and I have since bought 2 Dapol Imperium N18 decoders to fit in their place,

[@PaulBriden]

In my opinion it is the biggest breach of trading standings, trade description and Merchantable quality I have ever come across. An awful product that simply does not do what it says on the box.

[@BritishRail60062]

@@PaulBriden To be honest with you Paul. It was Hornby's sloppy quality and unfair prices that kicked me off OO gauge and I now do N scale American train's and I haven't looked back since. I am done with Hornby and I hope someone takes them over and will bring back the quality that I used to love after being loyal over 33 years to them. Peter.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Sorry, forgot to say... Yes, the current decoders are too large for small (tender-less) locos, but Hornby is apparently going to be looking at making their decoders smaller. Some of the sound-fitted options (where they exist - early days) can save you £15 (not a massive amount admittedly). I don't have experience of OO models (which can be very expensive from Hornby) as I began modelling in N gauge.

[@PaulBriden]

Looking at is not much good. I could look at a picture of Jennifer Aniston all day but not much is going to happen. Hornby are very good at looking at but not much good at dealing with. I suggest that basing your purchasing policy on this may not be wise. Do you not think they would have made their decoders smaller from the getgo if this was an easy thing to do, it is not as if they are new to digital.

[@PebblesChan]

The HM7000 Next18-S decoder is a tad oversized to the NMRA specifications. i.e 4.5mm too wide and 3.2mm too long. The over size seems to stem from the need for a bluetooth aerial and use of a relatively large NUVOTON microcontroller TQFP package. It could be made smaller by using CSP/BGA or lesser pinned TQFP package but then Hornby would probably have to commit to 100,000’s parts to get NUVOTON make the part in a smaller package. Hornby’s HM7000 Next-18 decoders also seem over sized from its photos. Saying this the NMRA are a bit ambitious of the size decoders can be made to the budget range of Model Train enthusiasts.

[@PaulBriden]

@@PebblesChan Above my head, thanks for the contribution.

[@billyvauls5050]

I have read several reports HM7000 does not like Gaugemaster power supplies and would avoid them for DC. I think other names are fine with DCC and just DC controllers you need to be careful with

[@PaulBriden]

Basically you are correct. My view if you must use this use only the Hornby transformer. This video I did later on shows what a total farce this is. The major selling point of this is flawed, misrepresentative and unfit for purpose. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHKcgmWKg518jKc

[@antonhenry4817]

Not a very good, system. Bachmann and lionel, have similar systems in the U,S. That seem to work ok.

[@stephengrice1678]

Apparently the app will be available on android. I think Hornby are after people coming back to train sets. Buying into something that is easy for grandkids to get involved with. This is only the start. As you say it is so much easier that the old 30 year system.

[@PaulBriden]

Apparently so, however, I think they are more concerned that the chips are blowing up if being powered in analogue by anything other than a Hornby controller. Gaugemaster controllers power the world for good reason, why the hell they did not test the product on all popular controllers heaven only knows.

[@stephengrice1678]

@@PaulBriden Just maybe older transformers do not have the sort of output that works with very modern chips. I wonder if the Hornby power supply gives less trouble. As I hope to get that soon. I shall let you know.

[@HighFell]

I have used my iPhone SE and screen size is fine, (it’s one of smallest iPhones on the market) I also use a Dynamis for main DCC operation. The power of the free app to configure locos and upload free sound files is amazing, I watched a loco settle into a revised speed profile as I tapped a phone… brilliant. This is on the same day I learn my £300 Roco loco is being sent back to Austria after the motor functions failed completely on a 2 week old loco. Hope your next HM DCC decoders are on the money, mine seem great so far in TT:120

[@PaulBriden]

@@stephengrice1678 Older transformers put out a higher amperage than the average Hornby controller. Hornby know there is a major problem and they are trying to fix it.

[@PaulBriden]

@@HighFell Hornby know there is a problem with the decoders and are trying to fix it.

[@andrewcalladine2507]

Or buy a cheaper Android tablet, I'm planning to use my Samsung S2 tablet. Hornby customer service is very good, always had a good response from them on replacing blown decoders.

[@PaulBriden]

I do not believe android works with this yet. However when it does you are correct. They know they have a problem with the decoders blowing up, they are trying to sort it now. It maybe PWM that is the issue. Time will tell. The issue is that most people have Gaugemaster analogue controllers, simply because they are very good and have a lifetime warranty. If the chips do not work with these this product will have limited success if any. It is the same as selling a car with infotainment that does not have apple play.

[@wamgoc]

Hornby says that they know there could be a problem with GaugeMaster

[@PaulBriden]

There is a problem, but not with Gaugemaster, but with their HM7000 chip. In Hornby's mindset they believe we should all be using Hornby analogue controllers, sadly for them, most of us use Gaugemaster products. Why they did not test the new system with all different types of controller heaven only knows. It is no better than a tyre manufacturer testing their tyres only on a certain type of road. From what we see on the TV all they have on the test track is Hornby controls. The good news is they are trying to sort it. If they do not this new system will fall by the wayside. The big selling point is all you need is a phone and a chip. We shall see.

[@greathorton]

I don’t think so. I used a notebook power adaptor with steady 15v dc and 3A output, unlucky it was burnt too after playing less than 10 times. I don’t know why?

[@tonyslight826]

Thank you great video, it seams that analogue running is to blame for these blow ups going on what I have seen on KZbin .

[@PaulBriden]

It is not analogue running that is blowing them up, I have never actually run a loco in analogue, it is using an analogue controller to power the chip.

[@marknicholson2281]

@@PaulBriden apparently it’s the PWM that analog controllers put out that is the problem, Hornby now say not to run them via a DC controller, just use a 15v transformer to give a clean signal. Hornby sell a 4amp one for £48 and you should be able to get one for less. Or just run on your DCC controlled power but still use your phone. I’m waiting on my 21pin to active and then going to give it a try with batteries which should be ideal, just disconnect the pickups.

[@PaulBriden]

@@marknicholson2281 All you are saying is correct, however, the product is advertised as tri mode and you are able to power the chip with analogue. Not control it in analogue. You are supposed to be able to use the 12 volt analogue power and control the decoder with bluetooth. The product is not of merchantable quality. I sent my decoder back, there is no point in my having it as I have a Prodigy. It is all here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHKcgmWKg518jKc

[@marknicholson2281]

@@PaulBriden I agree that it shouldn’t have been advertised as such but it’s evident from watching Hornbys Q&A session that this problem took them by surprise. A lack of development or possibly a chip substitution problem ( which has caused the Next 18 chips to be oversized) due to the world supply problem. Either way it’s very disappointing. Personally I’m going to stick with it as I think using the phone for control and ease in changing CVs is worth it. I’m currently building an O gauge garden layout and Bluetooth and batteries will make life much easier. Like you say they shouldn’t have released it without testing first, they seem to be using their customers for R&D but at least Hornby seem to be replacing or refunding everyone affected.

[@PaulBriden]

@@marknicholson2281 Indeed I have sent mine back and forgetting the whole thing.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Hi Paul. I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Gaugemaster Prodigy: The disadvantages you pointed out *maybe* because of its age; it's analogue (DC) and technology has obviously moved on (in terms of both DC and DCC). Yes, I too hate using a small screen device if a larger screen is available. Bluetooth can only control one device at a time - as you said. If you are the type of person that glues their phone to their hand so that they are always sending/receiving texts, emails and phone calls, then model railways are not the hobby for you; you need time away from the real world and to be able to relax - model railways will do that for you. Personally, I have dipped my toe into the world of TT:120 and have ordered HM7000 decoders for my A4 William Whitelaw and A1 Blink Bonny. I will use the app for Android (when it's finally released) to set up the decoder and change CV settings, etc. I will then use a DCC controller with a rotary dial to control my trains.

[@PaulBriden]

Nope, the Gaugemaster Prodigy is a DCC controller. Here is a video to show how capable it is. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2PPno1mjd2cq8k . People do have more than one hobby Paul. I have friends phoning me all the time. For me personally using my phone would be a bind with the small screen. The big issue for me is the decoder blowing up, they have had this happen to a few of them. What models and scale we run is all subjective, you spend your money you make your choice. What is not is equipment that may not do what it says on the tin..

[@PaulBriden]

Also Paul, there are times all of us wish to be away from our phones, I do not take my phone into the gym as I do not want to be bothered with business or personal calls. There are times I feel the same about my model railway. I just want peace and time to chill. Having my phone in my hand would kinda put a stop to this.

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

@@PaulBriden That was precisely my point.

[@Bobs1Models]

Android version released at last

[@PaulBriden]

I will never go near this again, I suspect this maybe one of the reasons Simon was shoved.

[@rdrhouse]

i'm quite surprised at your negativity towards this product. You don't need a new ipad to run this app you can pick up a used android tablet or used ipad for around £50 or less, as long as it's at least newer than 2018 it will run the correct bluetooth version and work perfectly. As far as the controllers damaging the decoders, Hornby learnt a valuable lesson with the use of PWM controllers and should have been more thorough with testing. They replaced the failed decoders and advised customers to use a more basic controller to power the decoders that was not controlling with PWM. Myself i run my locos with internal batteries and have zero problems whatsoever with amazing control and faultless running even on the dirtiest of tracks, but then i've been running my railway this way for a long time in one form or another, rc, wifi, and now bluetooth. I'm looking forward to the next stage of HM 7000 with open eyes and an open mind.

[@PaulBriden]

I can only speak from my experiences. I paste "They replaced the failed decoders and advised customers to use a more basic controller to power the decoders that was not controlling with PWM."....Totally untrue. The only advise Hornby gave was to use their power supply. Internal batteries are not relevant when Hornby said on KZbin just turn the analogue controller up and away you go. The majority of people with OO run track power, I have no desire to mess around with batteries like on a kids toy. Hornby did not learn a valuable lesson, all the mugs who believed what they said did. If you watch all my videos on this I reveal other issues. I tried with another decoder then sent everything back, in all fairness they gave me a full refund really quickly. Hornby at the time had loads sent back and many blowing up, whether you like it or not the product does not do what it says on the box. If it works for you in the format you are using it in then perfect. People I know who run model shops hardly sell any.

[@rdrhouse]

@@PaulBriden I paste ................."batteries like on a kids toy"....................... have you looked at what hobby you're in. I certainly did have advice from Hornby not to use PWM controllers, so that is clearly 'TRUE'. My locos have working traction motors, suspension and realistic bogie construction, coupled with the most realistic modified bodies and yes "batteries like on a kids toy". Or maybe i should be running my trains from a controller that converts mains electricity to a lower rectified voltage and fed to the rails and have the loco pick that power up through the wheels, nothing toy like about that is there? Did i mention i model in P4. All the best Paul

[@PaulBriden]

Whatever.@@rdrhouse

[@rdrhouse]

@@PaulBriden My guess is Hornby is the winner here, not having you as a customer. Enjoy this fantastic hobby Paul, it takes many forms and embodies many skillsets and styles, but product bashing is purely negative and serves no purpose. Diagnosing problems and helping others overcome the hurdles that face us, is a way more usefull and positive way to approach these hurdles.

[@PaulBriden]

One last try, TRI-MODE subject is now closed. @@rdrhouse

[@westwonic]

Best buy a Roco Z21

[@PaulBriden]

I have just read about this, it looks good.

[@westwonic]

@@PaulBriden I think it is good. Can run multiple locos with ease, via phone, tablet or multimaus. No point or loco numbers to remember, its all pictorial. Two versions available, the z21 and Z21 - note the caps. The Z21 is twice the price of the z21, but obviously has more features.