Blue Verditer Pigment Synthesis | The Melancholy of Venus

This episode is a long one but I think it's fitting as this pigment takes a fair amount of time and patience to produce. Today I will be sharing my experiences in making Blue Verditer, which is a Synthetic Copper Carbonate and is the synthetic version of the naturally occurring Azurite.
This has been a very rewarding pigment to make as I have been working at trying to make this for a long time now and to finally successfully make it is such a joy.
Let us know what what you think of this process in the comments and if you are interested in trying out the watercolour head on over to The Alchemical Arts store:
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[@ruraledition]

I know nothing about pigments and their formation. And to be honest I'll never make them. But it sure explains why some are much more expensive than others and my appreciation for pigment making has been elevated so that I'll never see a painting the way i used to; paying more attention to colour and selection of. For someone who knows nothing of chemistry, you had me enthralled from start to finish. Fabulous demonstration.

[@AbrieleSkaite]

I can not say THANK YOU enough for creating these videos. You are a great teacher! I am learning so much from you. Thank you again.

[@TeresaOaxacaArt]

I am really enjoying watching these demonstrations. I’m not sure if I will ever try it but as a user of traditional pigments, I really appreciate this process. Keep it up.

[@kathrynhopkins]

Thank you so much for wearing your teachings on your sleeve! I'm loving all your videos :)

[@CatalunaC]

Ahahaha love that you didn't cut the part where you drop the plate. Great job! It hdlps me a lot, makes me understsnd lots of things

[@synthesizer8026]

I was gonna say the same thing, leaving in the mistakes shows everybody screws up. Much like him feeling a little better that the French Nation also couldn't make the pigment.

[@herwew7476]

Use safty glasses! They are the single most important safty device when working with any chemicals.

[@TeresaOaxacaArt]

I’m a fan of your long videos

[@synthesizer8026]

I am super happy I found your channel.

[@tofu4622]

hello. i can tell from all of your videos that you work hard and spend a lot of time on them. i appreciate all the hard work you put in it. have a nice day😉 bro you go so deep into the process. you know a lot about color. your my youtube idol tbh

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Thank you, it's a joy to share the process.

[@nereidabonmati8451]

YOU ARE A GENIUS, I HAVE TO SAY

[@suejovargas6053]

The NileRed of pigments and paints

[@burak5601]

Yeay, a new video! :) What a lovely colour, it looks quite similar to cobalt blue. I wonder how transparent or opaque it is 🤔

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

It's fairly transparent and has lacks the tinting strength of Cobalt blue but is still a very useful colour.

[@burak5601]

@@TheAlchemicalArts why they stopped manifacturing it then? It could be an inexpensive, relatively easy to manifacture alternative to cobalt blue

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

@@burak5601 It's not stable in oils it will turn a darker green over time, that is unfortunately the problem with a lot of the copper colours.

[@burak5601]

@@TheAlchemicalArts what about pthalo colours? Aren’t they copper based pigments as well? Speaking of pthalo colours, will we watch you synthesizing pthalocyanine in the future? 👀

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

@@burak5601 Yes Pthalo Blue does have copper bound into the structure of the organic compound. Ummm yes I really want to synthesise it but its going to be one hell of a step learning curve as organic chemistry is certainly more complex.

[@otilium7503]

That's very nicely done, thank you.

[@zviadimeqvabishvili2155]

Thank you! Nice pigment friend! Good luck!

[@mysticdavestarotmachinesho5093]

Do you not have refrigerator? I guess I misheard you when I thought you said the temperature needs to be low. From what I saw you do, I think I am going to mix up some sacked lime (Calcium hydroxide, or quick lime and water) and throw in some copper sulfate (because I have some on hand) and toss it in the fridge to see if anything happens in the next interminably long period of time, or less. Inert smiley face icon here ---X I'm sure if I had some copper nitrate and limestone in a refrigerated jar it would be English-a-riffic blue sooner or later but the sacked lime and copper sulfate seems a bit sketchy. What the heck ... sounds easy and fun.

[@odinmcmiir7459]

Great job💖

[@twycross3]

Just bought your blue triad set! Can't wait to use them!!!

[@virginiaperks4110]

Very beautiful color, and good to know this process, i intend on starting to make some of these, however, since i'm in Calif, and it's very warm now (summer) i would NOT try this one as yet! :) thanks for all you do and the amazing videos you have produced, regardless of the noise, which i ignore because i'm so into what you have to say and teach! :)

[@AssistantLeaflet]

As watercolor lightens as it dries, I’d like to see the dry version also.

[@gavinjenkins899]

Have you tried the recipe for blue verditer from the book you show in your other video "The manufacture of pigments [blah blah 3 setnence long title]"? It describes blue verditer as copper hydroxide (seems to disagree with some other sources or else multiple salts are just blue), that can be made according to them quickly by a very dilute KOH solution into CuSO4 until it just barely stops reacting, then immediately dumped into a huge vat of water to instantly stop the alkali from turning the hue different, and washed. This may also explain your "starts blue and shifts to greener" problem you keep having, if the presence of not-obsessively-washed alkali left over is known to shift the hue over time. Perhaps if you start with the blue you have in the early part of the video, and wash it like crazy, way more than you think you need to, it will stay blue? Edit: you actually said you added KOH there, so you effectively are making a blend of copper carbonate and copper hydroxide and ARE ... following their recipe but only half (?) and blended with a copper carbonate one at the same time, maybe the product has both chemicals at once?

[@ferminotalora]

What is the pH of your last recipe using nitrate? Would the outcome improve by controlling pH as you did in the first recipe? Why temperature is so important? To slow down reaction kinetics? Thanks for sharing all this useful experience!

[@memoiresieb5395]

This might be a strange question, but just wondering why copper nitrate can't be used as a pigment?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

It's not a strange question, the reason is that copper nitrate dissolves in water and you pigment needs to be insoluble in water.

[@LatoriaMartin]

Omgggggg I just got this idea to make hair color. Omgggggg imma try doing this since I have to increase the alkaling to make darker. Omgggggg thank you for the video.

[@Danoz_die_wreckt]

Good demo mate. I gotta ask what does the filtering between the steps achieve? Something to do with crystal growth I’m assuming.

[@robertosborn2458]

I followed the instructions to the letter. Quantity, time, temp everything. All I got was green. Not even close to what he got.

[@ValCronin]

It sounds like you got the wrong chemical to work with. Perhaps there was some confusion in the formula

[@lstaugaard]

So great! Could you'd mention molar ratio for us chemists out here??

[@twycross3]

Awesome!!!! I'm really happy for you!!! I have to ask, did you try the exact procedure you did on the video with copper sulfate just to see what the result would be?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

It doesn't work with copper sulfate unfortunately it just doesn't react.

[@abroquet2189]

Fascinating video. I wonder if an aquarium air bubbler could be used instead of magnetic stir bar? It would be a gentler process of agitation.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

If you don't have a stir bar I would just use a spoon instead. The aquarium bubbler would add in extra air and that could have an effect on the reaction, though I don't know that for sure.

[@abroquet2189]

@@TheAlchemicalArts You are right. I was thinking the same thing. The carbon dioxide in the air might upset the process. Unless the air has been scrubbed by caustic soda solution. The copper nitrate is quite acidic it has a pH of 5. That seems to be driving the reaction.

[@DarkWafflesOfDoom]

Cool video! Seems like a lot of work to make this one.

[@χρυσανθοςκαραγιαννακης]

You are the best my friend! Thank you for the video! Is it ,also,good for egg tempera?

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

I believe that it is stable in egg tempera. Thank you

[@rickh3714]

Thanks for asking that question for me! I imagine it would be an acceptable colour for an egg tempera undercoating glazed over with an oil paint layer, perhaps with an isolating varnish between to mitigate against possible reactions?

[@tanveershah4974]

pls show how to make copper phthalo cyanine blue n how to purify the crude. thnx

[@OhhhhhhhBugger]

Do you need to filter it each time, or can you just leave it and add more chalk and copper nitrate?

[@shawnsg]

Has it stayed stable for you so far?

[@theoriginalbabycub]

Adding the potassium hydroxide would cause copper (II) hydroxide to also be precipitated along with the copper (II) carbonate. A good solution of copper (II) sulphate should be much darker blue. The copper sulphate you are using looks impure, giving a pale appearance to the powder. Did you buy it from a reputable source. I have some similar stuff from eBay and it also has white particles in it that I believe are an anti caking agent. Yiu should have a much deeper blue power or crystals with pure copper sulphate (pentahydrate)

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Your right about the formation of copper hydroxide and yes I doubt the copper sulfate I am using is super pure, how ever I did get it from a good supplier.

[@theoriginalbabycub]

@@TheAlchemicalArts As sodium carbonate is basic/alkaline itself, pH 11.6 for a 0.1N solution adding sodium carbonate in excess should favour precipitating out basic copper carbonate, although you may have already tried this.

[@mikepolo2887]

The powder might appear lighter if it is finely ground.

[@HimmelsscheibeNebra]

I read, theoretical, with no experiance in practise, that what you describe for the verditer at 2:02 also was typical for other cupper based blues. Do I remember well that it was the proximation of azurite and malachite? But when the blue turns into such a beautiful green as on the Rubens painting, it is not even a too bad loss of original colour. Copper based pigments seem to have been troublesome and seem to have always needed special care or treatment or technique to secure their colour. Or is verditer just another name? When I read in the Renaissance treaties on pigment and paint making, I noticed that there are quite varieties of names for the same thing or confusing names for different names. I just see, that you made a video on green verditer (synthetic malachite pigment). I like natural malachite as gem stone. It has such beautiful green. Some colours are so beautiful, it is even difficult to find words for them.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

You are right Copper pigments are very difficult to work with, they are very unstable which is a shame because they are so beautiful.

[@HimmelsscheibeNebra]

@@TheAlchemicalArts Yes, they are really beautiful. I was in a crystal and mineral shop today and have seen a Malachite with Azurite crystals on top. It was a unique collector's piece, but the colors were absolutely beautiful. I have never seen such a combination of blues and greens before. They also had a large polished Lapis Lazuli, but this is another story... I got also a synthetic copper blue from Kremer in a local art shop some weeks ago and like the pigment powder's color very much. In Thompson's book on Medieval painting techniques, there is quite some text on the stability of copper pigments, and their tendency to fade away with time, but it seems some techniques of separate them in layers of oil and protecting them with resin were developted by Netherlands/Flemish painters, although Thompson was not precise how. Anyway, it was interesting to think a little about copper and copper-based pigments...

[@alexandrdementiev8750]

any ideas why the old masters used the blue verditer instead of Egyptian blue? It is similar in color but far more stable.

[@paulbriggs3072]

I bought azurite and made a ground pigment but it's not that impressive, It can be too pale if you grind it a bit too much, and it has low tinting strength. Also many sources cite it as chalk and copper sulfate instead,

[@rajarsugumar3448]

Hi I'm from Madurai, India an artist doing traditional wallmurals using natural colour ,thank you for your demonstration videos they're very informative, and I find it difficult to make Prussian blue, would you please help me in making this colour.

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoK8noqMq9iAj6M this is my first video on making prussian blue

[@rajarsugumar3448]

@@TheAlchemicalArts thank you very much

[@ValCronin]

You said it had to be done in a cold environment but then you didn't make it cold at all? I don't understand

[@ValCronin]

Oh at 29:20 is the first time you mention the temperature you are working at. I guess you forgot to tell us it was, in fact, cold!

[@samannemat4731]

I wanna start that factory and use your technology Are you OK ?

[@lucasmartin6087]

Hey ! Thank you for all your videos of the book The Manufacture of mineral pigments, it's really a good idea to translate this writing work into a video. I do some experiments in my lab to create my own pigments too so I can paint. And sometimes I wonder how to determine the amount of alum salt according to the amount of pigment to be extracted ? most of the time i pick randomly and it's ok but i probably need to loose some pigment. Is there a formula to optimize this? Thanks !!

[@TheAlchemicalArts]

Cheers, I usually use an equal to 1.5x the weight of my plant material in alum. I find this give good results for most things but it's very material dependant. The amount of pigment you end up with based on how much alum you use is often around 25-30% of the weight of alum.

[@lucasmartin6087]

Thank you @@TheAlchemicalArts for the ratio ! "25 to 30% of the weight of the alum" it is therefore impossible to recover all the pigment in solution at one time. To bad because my problem is that for each precipitate the shade of pigment is different (duller), so it is never possible to have the same production of a type of pigment.

[@oscareconome3033]

have you ever used this pigment for egg tempera,

[@mikepolo2887]

Your verditer looks amazing. I tried two commercial ones and and they look nowhere near as nice.

[@lilamjazeefa9466]

Could you create this and then very evenly mix it with a resin, grind that up very finely, and then apply a strong magnetic field to separate the powder granules with the most product in it. Then you could mix this in with the linseed oil to make a blue oil paint that won't turn green.

[@caitlinneill]

I can’t tell you how happy it made me that you left the bowl going into the beaker in the final cut 🤣🤣