Utah Changes e-Bike Laws

[@Area13ebikes]

It just proves that people writing the laws aren't riding the bikes. They're clueless.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I wish I could argue against that...

[@bobwallis1757]

They also aren't flying the drones

[@FattyOn2Wheels]

@@bobwallis1757 or shooting the guns

[@airadaimagery692]

No one at the FAA fly’s drones either. We are being robbed of our rights, slowly but surely.

[@Sarasdad91]

They are stupid

[@jonnylyds233]

The permanently affixed cranks rule and the anti-throttle regulations make me think they're trying to crack down on Surrons and other electric dirt bikes.

[@AndreShoumatoff]

That is exactly what the point of this law is.

[@Crankaholic]

My thoughts exactly.

[@michaelwright2316]

Trying to keep a distinction between bicycles and mopeds (which require licensing). Trying to "protect the children". Will of course be selectively never enforced against rich children.

[@davidroberts6594]

It could also mean they won't allow the addition of mid-motor type modifications.

[@davidsilvas9441]

Yep. Surrons have their place and they are fun on atv trails for sure. They do not belong on mtb trails.

[@ltech12]

What about sports cars that can go 180 MPH. Lets put limiters on all cars so they don't go over 70 MPH. This is so dumb.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Yeah, eBike laws are not consistent with existing transportation laws.

[@boydanderson8682]

Don't think for a minuet that regulation of vehicle top speeds isn't being discussed at the federal level. Because it is.

[@tom1788]

I think the highest speed limit is 80 MPH (Interstate 70). I agree all vehicles should be limited to 80 MPH, it would save lives and lower auto insurance.

[@boydanderson8682]

​@@tom1788I think you are incorrect about that. There's a lot of freeways in the west (Ut, Wy, Nv) that are 80mph and those areas are not the responsible for high traffic death rates. Distracted and impaired driving at speeds way less than 80mph are far more common. We don't need more nanny state regulations.

[@grayglimpse]

I get it, but no.

[@jasonjenkins4213]

Now the government wants to fuck up bicycles, I won't comply to any nonsense.

[@brovie88]

Ditto. I ignore all their bs codes and if they want to make an issue of it good luck catching me.

[@billkallas1762]

Bicycles don't have motors. e-bikes do.

[@svenweihusen57]

Good luck to you when anything goes wrong. These regulations simply mean that everything above the definition of an eBike is a motorcycle aka you need a license and and, more importantly an insurance. Riding a beefed up bike will ruin you when there is an accident even if you have a personal insurance.

[@brovie88]

@@svenweihusen57 That's my problem, not yours. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me how to live my life I'm 60 years old.

[@brovie88]

@@billkallas1762 What about motorized bikes?

[@bfranco1519]

Basically it’s kids on Surons and high powered motorcycles that are messing it up for e bike riders. My ebike only goes 20mph assisted then cuts out, class 1 e bike. Surons go 50mph and are not bicycles but mini motorcycles. They ride them on bike paths and on the street when really they are only supposed to be riding on private property and OHV areas

[@GoosetavoS42]

Kids, dude, most people I run into are in their late 20s to their early 40s, because they are they only one that can afford to buy a $4k electric dirt bike.

[@k9crazy11]

The crank item is added because there are some electric motorcycles that have useless cranks added to enable them to pass as e-bikes.

[@davidmoore3479]

still makes them legal .

[@debbibethel3391]

I can’t imagine police will be able to decipher all this, let alone stop e-bikers for improper ummm…whatever!

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

They will need aerial patrol on the bike path.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

They simply stop those eBikes that are speeding (easy to spot) and/or do NOT look factory-made. Then look for any indication of class one, two or three. With the new law they will be looking for throttles which most high power kits seem to have.

[@RoySATX]

And I can't imagine that will stop them from giving tickets.

[@Lukearthwalker]

​@@BlueMonkeyBicycles I'd welcome aerial patrol on my favorite 17 mile bike path. It feels overrun by Sauron's and every other manner of motorized bikes these days. There's even an occasional group of gasoline motocrossers, everyone going their maximum speed and yelling obscenities at me if I happen to interrupt their momentum. This path specifically states that motorized vehicles of ANY kind are prohibited, likely because it's just not built for that, far too many tight turns. That's why pedestrians and regular bike riders often end up in a hospital through no fault of their own, because a speeding 80+ pound motorized "bicycle" with 4" wide tires that looks closer to a hummer from Desert Storm than a bicycle, has no business on a narrow bike path going twice as fast as a regular bicycle, much less a pedestrian. Since there's no enforcement, regular folks on foot and bike are now avoiding this path altogether and thusly motorized bike riders get an even worse reputation around town than they already have. I'm not against ebikes for some people but most don't need them, they just like the feeling of going fast with little effort on what they want to consider a bicycle. It's not and I get it, they feel good and they're fun! But it's not a bicycle anymore, it's a motorized bike with a throttle that some manufacture put 130mm cranks on just to satisfy the definition of still being a pedal bike. It's a new category of vehicle and it infringes on another's safety if they mix with bicycles and pedestrians, especially when being ridden like an idiot. Around my city, ebike riders are being banned from even more paths and off-road trails because they seem to lack basic respect for others. I welcome increased regulation, too many people are taking advantage of the "bicycle" status to the detriment of too many others. Stay on the road with other vehicular traffic where you belong when you're going that fast. Rant over, I feel better now. PS: Also, stay off the damn sidewalks too, you're not a child any more!

[@e-powersport]

What they mean by the cranks, is in reference to aftermarket parts people put on Surrons. The crank barrel is permanently attached to the bike. Rather than being a component that is added or removed for pegs. With regards to the alternate modes, models such as the Onyx RCR have a 3 way switch, which puts it in 28mph, norm 40mph or off road 60mph. That is saying because you have that switch and can control the speed doesn't make it an e-bike. Other than the throttle on class 3, this sounds like it aligns with the federal regulations and definitions. I'm more surprised you don't get it. Even the exclusions from ebike classification are simple, 20mph with pedal assist, means not "only under motor power", because you are also pedaling. 750w or more is based again on the fact it doesn't have pedals. If it has pedals but has a more powerful motor than 750w, they are going to classify it as a motor scooter, sit down type, or a electric motorcycle. These are usually found at your DMV with regards to how they classify the motorized vehicle. The warning is due to manufacturers and retailers selling Surrons and similar as "street legal ebikes". They are not. And it's just holding them to being honest in the sales process.

[@jamesrusselleriii8284]

That's exactly what this law does. Surrons are electric motorcycles trying to masquerade as ebikes and that subterfuge is what will end up getting ALL ebikes banned or severely restricted. I'm seeing teens with these Surrons pop wheelies flying down bike paths at 30, 40, sometimes 50 mph with zero regard for safety. Hell I saw a teen at Layton station pop a wheelie with his Surron as he went speeding down the platform after he got off the train. You can't tell me that's good public policy to just let teens with Surrons race around completely unregulated. Play by the rules.

[@e-powersport]

@@jamesrusselleriii8284 it’s only a matter of time before some parents class action on Surron, and influencers. No, wearing a helmet doesn’t exempt you from wrongful influence on minors

[@kickerwormz3262]

The good thing is I really don't care. No "high capacity mags" "No high speed bikes" No No No No... When will people say, "Yes!" I'm saying yes! They (The government) whine and complain about being "Green." That's only if they benefit from insider trading on the up and coming actions and laws placed that will benefit some with huge profits. It's a fricken bicycle!!

[@jacksonholdaway5638]

An ebike is still much more green than any car regardless of how the car gets power, and ebikes that can handle higher speed and longer trips help cut down pollution a lot more than EVs will

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

"Class 3" has always meant 28mph not on throttle. Federal law says "less than 750 watts". That means only 749 watts or less. The regs are stupid because they're created by people that don't know or care about e-bikes.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

troo dat

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

_"The regs are stupid because they're created by people that don't know or care about e-bikes."_ That is correct, the people that created these "regs" care more about the pedestrian traffic that these e-bikes intermingle with.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@nathanwoodruff9422 I care more about pedestrian traffic too. That doesn't mean I don't want the ability to avoid being an obstacle for vehicular traffic I deal with more.

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

@@michaelsprinzeles4022 _"I don't want the ability to avoid being an obstacle for vehicular traffic I deal with more."_ Maybe pedestrians don't want the ability to avoid being an obstacle for e-bike traffic they deal with either. Oh... Sorry... I forgot... It is only okay for you and nobody else.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@nathanwoodruff9422 Pedestrians need not worry about being an obstacle for me. When riding among pedestrian traffic I slow down and give them warning IF I'm going to pass. In vehicular traffic I know I'm treated as if not there so I'd rather pull ahead. I can only judge what's right for me. Are you willing to dictate your views be made law? Sounds like you'd be a perfect match for the e-bike lawmakers.

[@2000bvz]

I get that it can be dangerous to have what are essentially mini motorcycles cruising along at high speeds in the bike lane (if there is even a bike lane present)... but this kind of capricious lawmaking is frustrating at best, and infuriating most other times. In 2022, in Utah, there were 935 cases where a pedestrian was struck by a car, and in 54 of those cases the pedestrian was killed. In 2023 there were nearly 300 people killed in automobile accidents in Utah. In 2018 there were over 60,000 vehicle accidents in Utah, with over 25,000 injuries. So where are the laws putting governors on cars? Where are the laws that are limiting the gross vehicle weight of trucks? Why are roads built to sustain dangerously high speeds? Where is the legislation on pedestrian safety for cars and trucks? If sticking up a speed limit sign is enough to try to manage cars (who, again, kill hundreds of people every year in the state), why wouldn't a similar sign for bikes suffice? Why do we need to legislate the actual hardware so that the bikes can't exceed certain speeds or levels of acceleration? To be clear, I am actually in favor of regulating e-bikes (though not necessarily in the way that is being described here) but it feels very selective and biased. Any legislation limiting e-bike power and speeds should also include legislation that limits auto and truck horsepower and max speeds. This isn't about saving lives. It is about maintaining a status quo that is bankrupting the state, but benefiting a few select pockets of people and organizations.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Protecting adults from themselves in one thing...protecting the young is another. Look how many kids have been killed on eBikes. I refer to the hundreds under 14 that have dies nationwide since studies were started in the last decade. Do you think it will get better in the future?

[@chuckwolf9869]

It also says 750 watts continuous output which means Peak output can be unlimited as long as the continuous power is only 750 watts

[@tacticooldennis]

I think there trying to rule out Surrons that people were adding pedals to and claiming they are electric bicycles.

[@jceddy1]

"permanently affixed cranks" is for Surrons, where you can buy after market "pedals" to make a Surron a "class 3"

[@timsteele8063]

I see why.. I ride ebikes and I see some ebikes riders flying down walk/bike paths just flying weaving in and out of people without a care.. those idiots are going to ruin it for everyone.. I mean just drive slow and respectful around people...

[@croeitusd5731]

I've got a hole in my knee, a surgeon drilled it to put a rod and some pins in my femur. My knee pops if I put any serious weight on it so I put a mid drive on my mountain bike. I am also pretty out of shape. I didn't put a throttle on it at first, but decided to try it after pedaling 10 miles out and getting too tired to pedal back. Banning everyone from having an e bike with a throttle to be sounds like "You can't ride a bike unless you're in good shape!" I also take things the wrong way a lot, but I still think that's pretty damn lame.

[@danwoods8195]

no throttle is a crime...many people only ride ebikes because they can't ride motorless bikes or trikes....this is kinda messed up . Imagine losing your leg, but you can still ride ebikes with a throttle, then that mode of transport is taken away. This is cruel imo.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Throttle is still legal on class 2 bikes. Up to 20mph? Under 20mph? That's the tough part.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

Right, elderly are common users of ebikes, and starting off from a standing start is hard on the joints, often painful, so elderly absolutely depend on the throttle assist to push off from the standing start until the pedal assist kicks in.

[@dolphcrane6420]

This is kinda me, I have no limbs that are fully intact, Yes I can pedal when I run out of battery but I can not so without pain. This is my transportation.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

The fringe situation you are imagining...do you have any tangible evidence this could be an issue? Please elaborate.

[@davidsilvas9441]

Please stop. this is less than 1% of the people out there. I qualify for a disability, but will not take it as it's a sign of giving into my injuries. I'm not as fast as I used to be, but I can pedal some. I ride and ebike, Class1, so I can ride "normal". I used to ride more footies and miles on my road and mtb when I was healthy.

[@theguardian908]

Law makers are looking for tax money. The big rush of electric motorcycles hasnt taken off so they want to tax the non road worthy ebikes. Im thinking this spotlight on ebikes will be over shortly because its a dead end for law makers. Same B.S. Target put on Consumer Drones.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Drones don't often kill the operator as far as I know. I believe they are trying to save the lives of the sub-14 year olds who are dying, some on high wattage fast-moving eBikes. Only a few hundred thus far yet the future awaits,

[@theguardian908]

@@geraldhenrickson7472 I can see your point of looking out for the younger age groups and their safety. Parents should be behind the decisions with what wattage type bike they purchase for their kids.

[@kenalanvoices]

@@geraldhenrickson7472 So an 8-year-old can't go 120mph on a manual bicycle down a hill? They'd be safer on an eBike which has a maximum speed of 15mph.

[@netposerx]

They are trying to get laws passed for bike registration and thus a yearly registration fee, property tax, etc... Gonna be fun to sell/buy a used bike in the future.

[@dperreno]

I think that it's a good idea to emphasize that the high-speed/power cycles are not "Electrically assisted bicycle." But I think they also need to state that these bikes cannot be ridden on the road without a license and the bikes themselves should be licensed and/or registered. They are functionally electric motorcycles and should be treated as such. All that stuff around 20mph or greater and 750W or greater is just poor writing, we all know what they mean. But yeah, they need to go through that and fix those discrepencies.

[@asonetuh6094]

There is a stunning lack of common sense with ebike rules in general. As an avid cyclist that recently got a brand name ebike due to a leg injury my perspective is that ebikes should only be broken down into classes based on power. Let the speed limits and such be set by local authorities if they feel it's necessary. From experience I'd suggest class 1: up to 250w; class 2: 251-750; class 3: 751-4476(6hp); class 4: 4477 and above Class 1 would be perfectly acceptable for paths and trails; class 2 for less sensitive paths and trails; class 3 more for street traffic (similar to mopeds and scooters); class 4 would basically be a motorcycle so would fall under those rules and regulations.

[@biketothetop]

Interesting changes... the government is trying to catch up with the complexity of the e-bike designs. It's a difficult task. There's a big distinction between bikes that are pedal assist and everything else. Trying to get their hands around this gets rather complicated. The discussion about cranks on a bicycle stems from the fact that some electric bicycles are designed to actually run without cranks because they have enough power to propel the bike. Some manufacturers sell the bikes with pedals and cranks as a means to fit within laws that were in place at that time. Users could take the pedals and cranks off and replace them with pegs and ultimately become a motorcycle a motorcycle has a throttle and no pedals.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

That's a good insight, thanks for sharing that. I wish they had talked to someone before writing that into law. It's very confusing.

[@simms196]

"Warning E bikes may be habit forming. Bikes of this type should be (pedaled only) Any use of a throttle will result in euphoria, addiction & punishable by law" You can pedal but don't you touch that throttle no no no bad bad bad Devils lettuce

[@martinbrenner2573]

I think the crank thing is for devices that are not built with pedaling capability but it is added as an option to meet a legal requirement. There are low power electric motorcycles that people add pedal kits to, and claim they are ebikes. I think you can buy pedal and crank kits to replace foot pegs on some of these. The law is seeking to prevent this kind of end run of getting ebike classification for something that really is not intended to be pedal assisted, rather a low power electric motorcycle/scooter.

[@0neTwo3]

On the permanent attached crank thing….. I think that is meant to address somebody taking a fixed foot peg equipped non-pedalable “e-bike” (more accurately an e-motorcycle) and adding a crank to it and calling it an electric bicycle.

[@AdrepKeith]

The more I think about this stupid Utah law the angrier I get. So I suppose the overall reasoning of these politicians is public safety. Evidently they are thinking these e bikes are a danger to every user of these trails. So what will these e bikers be forced to do with their expensive bikes?. They will be forced to ride on highways, and streets, many with no bike lanes. When there's no bike lanes I take the sidewalks, otherwise it's much too dangerous to be on a busy street with no bikelane. On top of that bike sellers business will drop dramamatically. Less tax revenue for the state as well!

[@kenalanvoices]

eBikes can't even ride on strets in California. Let's say a high school kid needs to ride to school. He can ride from home to the main street if the speed limit is under 25mph, but once he reaches a main road, he'll have to get off and push a 50# eBike for miles to the next residential road. With budget cuts, schools are demanding high schoolers walk as long as 2 hours each way to school. It's now impossible to get a driver's license under 18, so there's no relief even when the student turns 16. I wonder how many kids drop out of school simply because it's too onerous to get there?

[@AdrepKeith]

@kenalanvoices Yet another example Ca. Is bat chit crazy. And that's why I left Ca. In the 70's.

[@TylerDarden-lk5ym]

This is what happens when people that have no knowledge of what they are talking about are making laws. They make sure you know they are uneducated on the subject because they make such asinine laws and comments. All they had to do is a simple law stating that for a e-bike that is capable of going 35-55mph you must hold a e-bike operators license and it registered and tagged. Really they need to start cracking down more on cars than bikes (Especially in Las Vegas) we have more problems with the cars breaking the law than the bikes or scooters I have been hit twice in the bike lane because some driver decided he was going to cut traffic and use the bike lane as his personal lane. I was riding a Lectric XP lite at the time. My friend got hit too and was in a full body cast for months. His bike was a 500W Addmotor so yeah the problem isn't the bike or the car it's the operator of the vehicle!

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Yeah, it's an unspoken truth that cars own US cities by default. Really bugs me

[@brovie88]

No registration or license, are you nuts?

[@TylerDarden-lk5ym]

@@brovie88 A motorized vehicle able to achieve 55 should be registered and the operator should have to hold a license. In California and other states that is already the law ( You at least have to hold a learners permit for an E-Scooter to ride in the street) do you want unlicensed riders on the street making things worse? I don't A law that makes sense vs a law that just sounds stupid and poorly written are worlds apart.

[@brovie88]

@@TylerDarden-lk5ym We have too many laws already. Creating new ones will change NOTHING.

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

_"This is what happens when people that have no knowledge of what they are talking about are making laws."_ Posts like this happen when educationally challenged people can't see past their own nose. Laws like this are being written because of the numerous pedestrians being injured by riders of e-bikes that feel entitled to go as fast as they want on pedestrian/bike paths, especially in larger cities and when they injure someone, they are not held responsible for medical costs or damages.

[@brettbourassa6358]

The permanently factory installed pedals thing is saying you can’t buy an aftermarket kit and slap it on a “high powered” throttle only bike to be legal, and the modes over 20mph is for a large number of models that have an “off-road mode” that allows the full capabilities of a bike that’s normal settings are The neutered by bureaucracy class 1-3 nonsense. There are also modes on high powered bikes that limit speeds to 25 or 28mph, which should make them perfectly acceptable for these legal limitations, but they’re trying to ban the individual’s capacity to break the rules instead of just establishing rules. They need to place age restrictions on bikes if they want to control things so desperately. I’ll continue to drive appropriately for the circumstances of my location, but I’m not going to change where I ride and dutifully accept that I’m not allowed to ride anywhere because my bike is now officially a motorcycle that they won’t allow me to register or plate because they also say it’s not a motorcycle and I’d need a title for that.

[@lenlaskowski7374]

The government wants to be our nanny. No thanks.

[@zachwhite2716]

Permanently attached does not mean you can't remove them ever, it just means you can't sell a bike where the cranks can be removed without hand tools. Pretty much it means you can't buy a suron unless it came with pedals from the factory, when most don't.

[@darinsmith2458]

In regards to the cranks and the throttle it sounds like the regulators are trying to distinguish bicycles from motorcycles.. As far as the other stuff goes.. I was in an HOA meeting one time and people were complaining that the HOA said that it is in the bylaw's to not climb on the trees.. HOA said they had to say that for liability issues.. The instance of lower than 750 and higher than 750 I would imagine that it covers them from being sued on both sides.. Same with the different classes of bikes.. It is more of a liability issue.. All the fine print..

[@justinwhite2951]

I would seriously consider NOT moving to state based on restrictive ebike laws.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

You might paint yourself in a corner. I worry ebike laws like this are spreading.

[@justinwhite2951]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Well lets stop making videos and alerting the legislatures (just kidding)

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

@@justinwhite2951 _"I would seriously consider NOT moving to state based on restrictive ebike laws."_ How about just buying a regular bicycle instead and not worry about it.

[@justinwhite2951]

@@nathanwoodruff9422 How about I have 2 road bikes and two ebikes and I like both. How about it's America. How about I don't tell you to go buy a cat. How about you worry about Nathan Woodruff and the things he likes and not worry about what other people like?

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

@@justinwhite2951 _"How about you worry about Nathan Woodruff and the things he likes and not worry about what other people like?"_ I like fast cars mostly Lamborghinis, 3215 sq foot houses on 2 acres of land. I like caring for the wellbeing of others and myself especially when I was hit by a deranged person driving a BMW thinking he owned the road that I was riding a bicycle on, following within 2 feet of my rear wheel for more than 300 yards constantly on the horn. Then when I pulled into a turn lane for a condo complex, he didn't like that and decided to floor it with the BMW upshifting to 2nd gear(~35mph) just before knocking me 6 feet into the air and onto the side of the road. Then fleeing the scene of the crime, July of last year. Something you would probably do as well because your feelings got hurt. I'm glad you like road bike and e-bikes as well. I'm sure you don't follow the law on either of them as well. Oh... and I could easily out ride you with one leg tied behind my back with you riding either of your road bikes or e-bikes, even if I was only using my broken leg. How about you mind your own business and follow the law.

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

The car sales are dropping. It has to stop ! 🙄 ...

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

Class 2/3 thing was always weird. Technically, class 3 never included the throttle, but nearly all class 3 e-bikes have one in practice - so are they actually mopeds instead? I’m fine with the programmable aspect, it’s sorta like having a class 2 but not using your throttle to conform to class 1 operation. I’m fine with that, but I’m not modifying my bike to force it to class 1 just for 1 trail in my area.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

Just be glad you're not in Europe where the motor maximum is 250 watts.

[@CNclov2005]

Man that is terrible!

[@mmodtomic7119]

I think the labeling thing is mostly to educate the consumer, who might accidentally (or by means of of an unscrupulous salesperson) but a what they thought was a bicycle but ended up with a motor-vehicle. With large labeling, there would be none of this "I didn't know".

[@WyomingRider]

They're just making these laws way more complicated and confusing than they should be. Obviously the people making them don't know anything about e-bikes nor care to know. Why can't they just simply put speed limits on areas you can ride them and make it clear were it is legal to ride them. Drop all the motor size and throttle non-sense.

[@dncmonavon]

That would work for any bike or device

[@VlogEpicness]

I think it’s saying you can’t covert a bike into an ebike by adding parts that weren’t meant for it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@SmartMart1658]

Great work Mikey G; as always. Lots of people riding electric bicycles and stand on scooters here in the UK. In the UK Electric Bikes, or EAPCs (Electrically Assisted Pedal Bicycles) assist the rider in reaching 15.5 or 28mph, depending on the motor size. They are quicker to reach these speeds, but still require pedal power to get going. You can exceed these speeds, but your legs will need to do some work. The stand on scooters are all illegal for road use here in the UK except for hire versions being trialled in London & other cities.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

So the stand-up electric scooters are legal on roads, but only for companies? You can't buy one yourself and ride it yourself?

[@manoz6194]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles You can buy the stand-up electric scooters and ride them around. They are technically "illegal" but the police don't say anything. I'm seen some high power ones around too

[@brucemac-kn6og]

I'm glad they are trying to get the e-bikes laws into place. They need to start. The high speed throttle only bikes are dangerous. They are silent and heavy. And, you can't hear them coming when they are approaching you at 50 mph plus. I came close to getting hit by one in my neighborhood. The kid flew past me at 50 or 60 mph before I knew he there. (BTW - I ride a mountain bike nearly everyday, and pedal assist bikes and laws are fine with me.)

[@bobwallis1757]

well said! I am 68 and have lost vision to the degree that I no longer drive. I use my ebike mostly for recreation and occasional trips to the store. The shoulders are miniscule here in Idaho, so I use the sidewalks when i can, never going more than 10 mph. I prefer to ride into oncoming traffic as a rear view mirror is useless for me. Tell me your thoughts. I never use levels 4 and 5 rarely hitting 15 mph. THANKS

[@billkallas1762]

In many States, it's illegal to ride anything on a sidewalk, unless you are under 13 years old.

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

_"The shoulders are miniscule here in Idaho, so I use the sidewalks when i can"_ Do you follow this law??? Idaho. Cyclists are permitted to use sidewalks in Idaho as long as they yield to pedestrians and signal audibly before overtaking pedestrians and other cyclists. Do you yield to pedestrians and audibly signal passing them when traveling at 28mph??

[@bobwallis1757]

@@nathanwoodruff9422 first, 28 mph is insane for me. My sight is quite poor. 10 mph or less and yes I yield to peds and audiblize.... thanks for the heads up on the law!!!! i did not know that

[@_PatrickO]

There is nothing strange about permanently fixed by the manufacturer language. They want to exclude taking a non pedal bike and turning it into a pedal bike with fake pedals. This language does not prevent replacing parts. Permanently means bolted in, not easily removable. The warning to be put on all not assisted electric bikes also makes perfect sense. They are addressing the problem of companies selling ebikes to people who think they can do anything a bike can do with it. They are combating ignorance with this. That is a good thing because no one should be duped into buying a non street legal ebike just because they couldn't understand that they needed to make sure it was street legal before buying. Who would ever want to buy a non street legal ebike? The warning will go onto products that are low volume and niche, big deal. The people into niche communities are not going to be bothered by any warning, they already know what they are buying is not street legal. Ignorant people will be prevented from buying something that isn't what they actually wanted. Take the win.

[@katosplace]

Bottomline, they no longer want you to be able to use them on sidewalks or bike trails, because of public outrage from pedestrians and pedal only bikes being run over in increasing numbers the last couple years. To fast for bike trails and to slow for the Highways, so basically you now have to use them on the rightside of car roadways within towns and neighborhoods where the posted speeds are from 25 to 40 MPH; or get a pedal only bike or Motorcycle to go lower or higher to use different roads. They should have requested a drivers license to use a Ebike before so kids didn't get access to them and start runing over pedestrians on trails, now we all have to pay for the kids messing up ebikes for all of us.

[@Ex_christian]

And yet give us ZERO paths or areas we can ride safely!

[@slimdunkin117]

The classes were always like this..class 3 was without a throttle. Just no one cared..same way noones gonna care with these changes

[@stevecumming6427]

Sounds like the CA law on no throttle on a Class 3 e-bicycle. CA allows a Class 2 e-bicycle to be exclusively electric powered, so I took the chain ring & chain off & put on a crank arm on the crank shaft that cannot be welded to the crank sets installed & needing servicing occassionally.

[@scottydiver5114]

So we can all put 750 w stickers on a 1500 watt bikes, and they will never be able to tell the difference

[@Bigfoot-ju9ws]

Even better than that, there is absolutely NO WAY for them to prove the static continues output of any motor. It is load, power, delivery influenced. My take is don't drive like an idiot and you will be just fine.

[@toddnorton76]

Thanks for the updates.

[@michaelclements4664]

This legal obfuscation about e-bikes reminds me of another legal definition I once read: "In the Nuts (unground), (other than ground nuts) Order, the expression nuts shall have reference to such nuts, other than ground nuts, as would but for this amending Order not qualify as nuts (unground) (other than ground nuts) by reason of their being nuts (unground)."

[@phillipmoore9012]

Where I live (the city not the state) you also can not put a bike on a sidewalk. You can't put any motor on the bicycle trail that leads into town. 750W is the limit for class 3, but 750W apparently also requires a license. So the 45-mph highway is the only direct way into town. They haven't made any thing safer. To me it appears like an intentional promotion of gasoline.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I do believe that bike shops selling or renting e-bikes that don’t conform to local laws should inform their customers about that. I pointed this out to my local bike shop when I purchased an e-MTN bike - but there is no place I can legally ride it within the city that take advantage of “mountain bike” aspect. AKA - all e-bikes are banned from single track. They confirmed that was true and they only knew of 18 trails out on public lands that e-bikes are allowed.

[@aponatraza]

So seeking a wee bit of clarification, an e-bike that can go over 28mph but is under 5hp is considered a motor driven cycle? Would that still require a motorcycle licence and/or moped plates? E-bike laws are really muddy once you get past Class 3.

[@asonetuh6094]

In the US scooters/mopeds/high-power ebikes 1hp-6hp (751w-4467w) don't need to be registered but you do need a driver's license. There may be some variation from state to state but that's the general rule.

[@georgeadams-mb6yd]

About the cranks by permanent means peddles can not be removed and replaces with foot studs.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

The law seems similar to California's: Class 1 is max 20 mph no throttle available, Class 2 is max 20 mph throttle available with or without pedaling, Class 3 is max 28 mph with throttle available. What that means is the motor assist (from either throttle or pedaling) MUST cut out when one reaches 20 mph or 28 mph depending on the class of the ebike. Because Class 3 e-bikes can go faster, they usually are excluded from bike and pedestrian paths UNLESS local law permits it. Whether Class 3 bikes can use paths is up to local municipalities. In theory you can go faster than 20 or 28 mph, but you can't get ongoing motor assist beyond that speed...it must come from your own pedaling effort. Both braking and exceeding the Class speed limit will cause the motor to cut out. Many ebikes however have settings that can be fiddled with to bypass the state restrictions though. Factory settings however will always accord with state law. This last point may be what the Utah law is getting at: if the bike settings can be manipulated (ie. have "multiple operating modes...") to bypass the speed laws, then they also prohibit such bikes. That stipulation is not in the California law which may explain why there are "hidden menu settings" that allow restriction bypasses in many eBikes.

[@TheLionsDen72]

By the way it's written, any ebike with an electric motor greater than 350w would be illegal. 350w nominal will peak at 480 to 540. 500w nominal will peak 760 to 880. This is ridiculous.... should be restricted by posted speed limits like combustion vehicles. Maybe I live in a hilly area and need a stronger motor to propel me up said hill. Maybe im 280 lbs or more..... I need more power to help me stay up with others. Maybe im disabled and need more assi3than others. No matter the circumstances, as an adult, I should be able to have said choice. Any adult can go into a store and by cancer sticks that will def shorten thier life but yet its too dangerous to have more than 750w of power..... priorities are def screwed in this country.

[@nathanwoodruff9422]

_"Any adult can go into a store and by cancer sticks that will def shorten thier life but yet its too dangerous to have more than 750w of power....."_ Mr Short sighted.... bicycles are still allowed in places where people walk. Should a 750w scooter that can travel up to 40mph be allowed on these walking paths as well? Or just bicycles??? At what point does a bicycle become the same as a scooter/motorcycle that requires a drivers license to operate?

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

Speed is inversely proportional to safety, and beyond a certain speed, a "motorized bike" would be considered to be motor vehicle and would require licensing and registration (ie moped). These e-bike laws are clearly trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to carve out a difference with mopeds on the basis of speed. The reality is, traditional bike racing pros can endurance ride at 25 mph on average and far exceed that in sprints, but no one would confuse them with a motor vehicle. By custom, the egos of professional bike racers naturally kept them off of bike trails, as they want to compare their pace to (or draft behind) motor vehicles. And they don't want to start and stop for pedestrians if possible. The problem with ebikes is any out-of-shape douche can suddenly ride at pro level speeds, and often they will want to e-ride on bike/pedestrian paths which never were a problem previously since such paths were always the domain of slow out-of-shape Sunday riders. So pedestrians who also use bike paths are now rightfully afraid for their lives since lots of non-pros are now speeding around on e-bikes at pro level speeds. Whatever status quo there was that was in balance is broken. And that's what these laws may be trying to fix. My guess is that e-bikes will be increasingly be forced off of traditional bike paths onto roadways, ...which frankly is probably where they should be. No sidewalks, no bike paths, just the roads.

[@GoosetavoS42]

What I don't understand, why create a ebike that can keep up with motorized vehicles and to fast for bicycle/walking trails/lanes. At that point you might as well make it a moped or a motorcycle from the factory. Its a very similiar problem with gas dirt bikes and atvs.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

@GoosetavoS42 mopeds have to be registered and tagged, plus you need a motorcycle license...costs time and money. And a license can be suspended or revoked. Basically it's super cheap n reliable backup transportation if you don't have a license. Also works well to overcome basic mobility issues elderly have if they (can't) ride bikes, so allows them more low impact, low strain exercise and less stop-start danger risks.

[@GoosetavoS42]

Where I am at, you don’t need a motorcycle license for ride a moped, just a driver’s license. I understand the cheapness of it. But if you want something that is going to keep up with traffic, where it be classified as a moped especially a motorcycle. Then get one of those two, they will be better built and safer. I am seeing lots of people who buy the fast and or big e-bikes zip through traffic carelessly and disregard the laws more often than motorcycles. In addition the elderly needs to be careful when buying a big and or fast e-bikes, for I seen plenty of them drop or crash due to the speed and/or weight.

[@Zuckerpuppekopf]

@@GoosetavoS42 The Elderly can get e-trikes if balance or stability is a potential issue. Many do. That being said, many younger people drop or crash fast e-bikes as well, - it's not just a factor of age.

[@coastalhillbilly3419]

Many of the high torque high speed electric motorcycles have no cranks but after market crank kits are available to look legal. A lot of cities in CA seem not to care at this point in time, if it’s electric you’re good…for now

[@kraisydave]

Ebike (bicycle), emoped, emoto (motorcycle). Also no reason for the 20 mph limit on assist. Bike gearing, motor gearing and natural abilities of the rider provide the limit. Throttle being present or not means nothing. All mine have walk assist. Most major brands do as well. So everyone has a throttle. It's motor power...

[@davebrown9725]

"Walk Assist" is Not a throttle, it will not get you started from a stop and is not meant to be ridden when used. The walk feature on my ebike is too slow, and the lowest throttle setting is slightly too fast to walk it. Having a throttle is Way different from the torque sensing on most factory ebikes from regular bike companies. Unfortunately, too many ebike riders seem to use their throttle only and never pedal.

[@kraisydave]

@@davebrown9725 so you are saying you have not cracked the code on walk assist yet...? And why does someone using a throttle matter to you or anyone? Principles, morality, cheating? We have low torque throttles set for people who are elderly and/or disabled on otherwise class one level bikes. They even have cutoffs such as at 11 mph with slow acceleration. Their injuries/elderly-ness just prevent pedal assist from being enough. One guy has one leg as an example. So yeah, throttle doesn't matter. Its only power/torque of the motor.

[@davebrown9725]

No walk assist speed adjust secret code for my BBSHD that I have ever heard of, hold two buttons and walk assist comes on. The BBSHD says specifically that it is not for use when on the bike. My only issue with throttles is more about only using the throttle being a sign of an Inexperienced rider, who may be a danger to themselves and anyone near them (Lots of ebike commuters now on all kinds of skeezy plastic ebikes) . Using the throttle to get started from a full stop becomes almost second nature to experienced ebike riders, so much so that I try to twist the grip on my acoustic bikes. I have NO objections to throttles and more for anyone with a handicap or health condition if they allow someone to someone to get outside and riding. I bought my wife an ebike because the has a congenital heart defect, she Loves being able to get up hills now.

[@kraisydave]

@@davebrown9725 Yeah, I hear yeah. Just another unenforceable rule tho. Stealth throttles being one. The walk assist turned into a throttle has also been a thing for a while. And due to walk assist appearing to be a throttle it actually comes disabled on many top brand e-bikes. To the layman government official it is a throttle while you and I know that's not correct. We really don't need to reinvent the wheel as motor law covers the basics. Bicycle, moped, motorcycle. Now ebike, emoped, emoto. We wouldn't really have to change any laws beyond a little bit of wording.

[@loamtrailer805]

Leave cyclist alone. 20 yrs ago, I was ticketed for wreckless on a bike , speeding and evading LAPD on my fixie bike. To this day, I'm still proud of that, and my auto insurance was f for 10 yrs bc of that!

[@donovanruiz4404]

I travel to other states quite a bit and always have my ebike. I just cross my fingers that I'm not going to get in trouble. Would love a series covering this topic. Thank you.

[@PlayingInVestapol]

i just finished watching a movie called "Idiocracy" . I swear this seems to be where we are going concerning Ebikes. These laws seem to be base on bureaucrats not having any idea what a Ebike is in the first place.

[@aurelioramos8463]

The cranks statement was likely added to exclude bikes for which cranks are an optional (often user installed) add on, in other words, e-bikes that perform more like electric mopeds by design, but have pedals to "look" like they are bikes, but add no increase in level of effort to the rider as the bike could have been used at full power and capacity without them, unlike a class 3 e-bike. The level of effort required by the rider on a class 3 ebike is a strong incentive to be selective on when to extract the maximum speed, which on a throttle, high powered, or often crank-optional bike, is unnecessary. People who are selective in where they apply speed and get fit enough to do so, often acquire riding experience along the way that people who twist a throttle to 100% on day one do not.

[@bigchungus914]

I think the crank is more in reference to the front chain ring. A lit of ebikes come with an crank chain ring combo, and swapping that crank to put on a bigger chain ring could increase top speed.

[@kenalanvoices]

If I had an eBike store in Utah it would be time to find another retail business because there's no place to use eVehicles except on private land. I was very close to buying an eScooter and there were two trails here in California I was keen to ride on but I decided to check with the City and they confirmed eVehicles are banned claiming they go too fast and are an aesthetic or environmental hazard. Let's examine each of these claims: They go too fast? I can peddle a manual bicycle a whole lot faster than 15mph. An 8-year-old can go down a modest grade at 120mph. They're not aesthetic? I’m not sure what this means. No doubt the City Council envisions a tranquil, park-like setting where people putter along at 3mph on their bicycles through the park. You can’t ride a bicycle at 3mph because you need to be going about 9mph to maintain balance. They’re an environmental hazard? They may be thinking these are like gasoline-powered leaf blowers, which have also been banned. These are electric vehicles or EVs. They are 100% silent. I was almost run over by a Tesla in a parking lot. Now, are there rude drivers on eBikes or eScooters? No more than any other mode of transportation. I was in a parking garage the other day and two people were walking slowly right in the traffic lane, oblivious to the fact there were cars wanting to get by. Yet, they continued to tie up traffic like they were the only souls on the planet. Perhaps we should outlaw pedestrians? I don't know what special interest lobbyests have written these boilerplate laws but their intent is clearly to confuse and discourage people from buying these devices. No doubt it's the automobile and insurance industries which stand to lose money if alternative modes of transporation are widely adopted. Even for ordinary motorcycles, there's so much time and expense in licensing that it's just not worth the hassle.

[@MarkThomas-hm3ju]

My understanding has been that a Class 1 ebike (pedelec only) is defined in the Federal Code as a bicycle not a motorised vehicle. Class 2 and Class 3 are motorised vehicles and may be considered mopeds. Places like the Nationsl Forest may alliw a Class 1 on a motirised trail and not Class 2 or 3. In addition insurance companies in the U.S. try to call all classes 1, 2 and 3 motorized vehicles. Apparently the insurance companies have not yet matured with the ebike thing yet and dont understand that the Class 1 ebike is not a motorised vehicle.

[@Adam_Webb]

Question, if I buy a controller that allows me to set a mode that limits the speed to 28 mph, does that change the classification? Or does it not matter since the bike has the capacity to go faster?

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Na, this is just poorly written.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I'm glad you think so! I don't feel so crazy anymore.

[@e.miller8943]

Most states apparently borrow the bicycle laws from California, so the laws will be a little strange. In Washing State they make it clear they feel like the rules for E-bikes allow riders to have a generous amount of mobility without having to obtain a motorcycle license. Using electric power to assist pedaling rather than using a throttle is thought to be safer. Unfortunately, different classes of bicycle are needed to prevent riders from going too fast in pedestrian areas. If you want to go fast with electric power, get an electric motorcycle and a motorcycle license as stated by the state of Utah.

[@D.I.Wired-E-Bikes]

As for the permanently affixed cranks, I believe they are referring to riders that take the non drive side crank off and flip it on the crank set in order to make both cranks parallel to each other. This renders them useless for actually being able to peddle the bike, but it is done to create makeshift pegs like on a motorcycle instead. You see this a lot in the high powered 3000 watt or more stealth bomber clones. This way the bike is more like a dirt bike operating solely on throttle power but until now slipped threw the loop hole of it having to have pedals...until now the law never specified 'operational pedals" I hope thar clears that up for ya a little!

[@jaycahow4667]

There are three Classes of e-bikes. Class 1 and Class 3 are pedal assist e-bikes and only supply assistance power when they are actually being pedaled. Class 1 has a top speed of 20 MPH and Class 3 has a top speed of 28 MPH. Once those speeds are reached they no longer provide any assistance. These e-bikes are real pedaling bikes and you get exercise while riding them. Large wattage motors do not have any effect other than to give you additional power on hills and tough terrain as they are internally speed regulated. I have no issues with Class 1 or Class 3 e-bikes although many places and trails do not allow Class 3 e-bikes due to their higher speeds and associated risks. Class 2 e-bikes are not really e-bikes at all and really should be called e-cycles. They are just basically electric motorcycles and have a throttle and do NOT require any pedaling to ride them. These can travel at very high speeds with large wattage motors and have become quite popular with people that just want transportation. These are the type of e-bikes that give real e-bikes a bad reputation and are usually abused in traffic. Large wattage motors allow these e-bikes to accelerate faster and hit higher unlawful/unsafe speeds. Personally I would like to see Class2 e-bikes (e-cycles) treated much differently than the other two Classes. Since they are basically small electric motorcycles they should be registered, licensed, have lights, age limits, require helmets, and made to have insurance just like mopeds and larger motorcycles. I really wish the public and government would distinguish between e-bikes and e-cycles and treat them accordingly.... They may not be hundreds of fatalities yet but there were over 50,000 ER visits last year pertaining to e-bike accidents. Many of these accidents had head injuries and many people were not wearing helmets. I do not own an e-bike but do own multiple non motorized bikes. I recently had crash at close to 20 MPH and even with an expensive helmet still suffered a concussion that has taken months to heal. I can only imagine what kind of injuries are caused on e-bikes traveling much faster especially without any helmet.

[@maryl.7226]

Treating the e-bikes as dangerous is so mistaken… it’s the riders who are dangerous, or safe! Punish individual, reckless riders, not the vast majority of e-cyclists who are responsible, respectful, and safe. Many senior citizens or physically limited people are again able to get out there and ride because they were able to purchase an ebike.

[@davebrown9725]

The bad ebike riders usually have little to no experience riding regular acoustic bikes, so their lack of knowledge and experience is a danger to those around them.

[@maryl.7226]

@@davebrown9725or are young and reckless and impulsive, and wind up hurting or frightening people.

[@utah32804]

My wife has a degenerative knee problem so needs throttle assist at times to rest her knee while continuing her ride. Not clear on the new law, no throttle up to 20 mph? I hope this throttle restriction is only for class three and not both two and three. Why would they take away this option and preclude people like her from participating in cycling?

[@gordonlai6718]

Thanks for the insight Mikey G, there are so many things about this new bill that doesn't make any sense. Hopefully they will be able to consult an eBike professional for clarification. Maybe someone that lives in Utah :)

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I wonder who they could call...?

[@funkmonkeyfun]

As a gun guy who is use to ATF laws let me clarify the cranks statement, permanently affixed cranks from the factory means the bikes was designed with and had cranks installed from the factory, not that they are permanent. Let’s look at a example, we have 2 of the same guns, one came with a rifle stock from the factory and the other came with a pistol grip, the law says one of them is considered a pistol and one is considered a rifle because one came with a pistol grip from the factory and the other did not so it’s considered a rifle. It doesn’t matter that a pistol grip can be mounted on both guns it’s the fact it was affixed from the factory. It seams the intent of this law is to decide what is a electric bicycle and what is a electric motor cycle, here is a example written off this law: I buy a electric motorcycle but don’t want to register it or pay insurance and I wana ride it on sidewalks so I install some pedals on it and call it a bicycle, now the law can legally say wait wait wait, that didn’t have pedal cranks installed from the factory so it’s not a bike.

[@stephenringlee9739]

I support these simple and needed changes. UT and other states have put an enormous investment into bicycle lanes, dedicated bike paths, and shared use paths designed for lower speed use. As e-bikes have been introduced, there are legitimate concerns that this infrastructure will be used by what are essentially e-motorcycles operating a high speeds. Mixing higher speed e-bikes and pedestrians/child bikes/bio-bikes/ lower speed e-bikes with e-motorcycles on the same paths is a prescription for higher fatalities. I have walked in New York City and been assaulted by delivery riders on heavy, high speed "e-bikes" using bike paths on the Avenues and know some people injured by them. Time for legislative clarification.

[@Ex_christian]

Utah has not spent any time giving us bike lanes or safe places to ride. As usual, they barely do so,etching in SLC and that’s considered the state, which it is not. They ignore the rest of the state! We have no safe paths in any part of the state. Even Moab being supposedly a bike community has NO real places for us to ride except along the side of the highway, which is dangerous!

[@fermitupoupon1754]

Looking at this with a Dutch perspective, I'd say the law in the past was just too vague and now politicians are overreacting in trying to sort out an issue that is probably real, but not that big as a whole. Over here the situation is incredibly simple when it comes to the law and people still can't figure it out and manufacturers still do not comply and vendors will sell private-property-use-only bikes as if they're allowed on the public road. First off, if something is not legally an e-bike, then yes that should be made abundantly clear to the buyer. It's safe to assume that the buyer does not understand the distinctions and the consequences thereof, so the onus is on the seller to make sure the consumer knows exactly what they are buying. So while the warning label seems kind of insane, I guess it does serve a purpose. If only to shield the seller from potential financial liability. Over here the basic rule of thumb is very simple, if it has a throttle, it's a moped. It then needs to meet certain requirements that all mopeds have to meet, these requirements are mostly about brakes, lights, mirrors, things directly related to safety. If it doesn't have a throttle, that leaves two options. Either is stops the pedal assist at 25km/h, in which case it's a bicycle. If the pedal assist carries on until 45km/h it's a speed-pedelec. If it goes over 45km/h it's a motorcycle, but that's kind of besides the point here. Mopeds and speed-pedelecs require an AM-class license, must have a license plate, riders must wear a helmet, and third party liability insurance is mandatory. Normal e-bikes (legally bicycles) have none of these requirements, no helmets, no insurance, no license.

[@jeffrey_live1748]

I know this is about e-bikes but to me all the throttle, settings, power requirements and such are a direct attack on my performance e-scooter.

[@myc0p]

A total of 1,084 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles in 2022 in US, the highest number ever recorded. We really got change the rules for regular bicycles not statewide requirement for helmet use!

[@billkallas1762]

Every e-bike should be pedal assist. If it has to have a throttle, it should be called a motorbike, and be limited to 15 mph Any faster than that, a license should be required. I might get one when I turn 90 years old. Until then, I'll keep riding my bikes.

[@terrynelson2385]

Who is pushing these changes? The spandex crowd? Those of us who are not bulging with muscles should call, write the law makers and explain how we need the freedom to buy motors with more than 750 watts to go up Utah's non-existent hills. The regulators should really be changing the laws to keep car engines below 50 horse power (37,500 watts). Or maybe they should be giving undesirable people THE PILL.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Utah has a wild variety of terrain, including hills.

[@terrynelson2385]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles I'm being sarcastic!!! Yes I know, I live next to you in Idaho where we have zero mountains!! Guess you didn't get my point.

[@southernebiking]

Would you mind if I Use this video to do a video response to it? I believe I can clarify some of this.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

By all means

[@southernebiking]

@@BlueMonkeyBicycles Thank you sir

[@davebrown9725]

2:20, some "ebikes" that are basically a dirtbike with a motor and battery, such as the Surron, have optional cranks that can be user installed, so these electric dirtbikes can appear to be an ebike. I see these and the similar Talaria on roads and paved park trails where ICE dirt bikes are illegal.

[@geraldhenrickson7472]

Its all crystal clear to me what the state wants. Lower wattage, sub-20 mph and leave the crank arms/pedals on the bike. In my experience, factory built "turn- key" models are the least likely to be stopped and inspected by law enforcement so...nothing has changed. No additional confusion on KZbin is needed or necessary as it will all be addressed on a case by case basis in the courts.

[@WiscoColby]

It’s interesting. I think it’s good that consumers are informed they are potentially purchasing a vehicle that’s illegal for them to use, no? Maybe I’m missing the picture you’re trying to paint, but it actually seems like great consumer protection.

[@Mypringles]

If you had a pedal assist and add a hub would give you 750+ what the hub had. You could get 2000w or close to 3000k if they did a awd.

[@chadwells7562]

They obviously meant “permanently affixed crank” as “a pedal crank that is integral to the operation of the bicycle”, to prevent people from optionally removing it and just using it an electric motorcycle without the pedaling portion. They just worded it poorly.

[@jeffreylee5770]

Thanks for doing this. I have been on e-bikes and regular old bikes for many years in PA. NJ just passed some new laws, and I am worried that the law makers seem to know nothing about what they are doing. (Surprise surprise.) Bike riders get regularly killed in my city, and there are ghost bike memorials all over. The reason is cars, not bikes. We need better laws about cars with distracted drivers, i.e. drivers who are looking at smart phones or any other screen. Sometimes I ride along a line of cars and see 3/4 of them on a screen. THAT is the problem. They are all breaking those laws, and nobody does anything about it.

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

Yeah, I agree. You may have noticed when you travel out west that it's even worse. I used to live in the DMV, and cycling was a lot easier in the dense and slow city. I felt like a small fish in the aquarium. Now that I'm in Utah, cycling feels like being a kitchen rat carefully poking out of a hole to sneak some cheese

[@Bengy22]

So let me get this straight, the bike cannot have a power output of more than 750 watts aka peak wattage, which would make even some EU 250w motors illegal. But then later on a bike with a 750 rated motor or higher is illegal. Already stuff isn't adding up, seems they are getting peak and rated power confused, and if not I'm not sure why they felt the need to limit both

[@ChaplainDaveSparks]

Here’s something else to keep an eye out for: Here in *California* there was a news item about a group of teenagers *ON EBIKES* harassing pedestrians, throwing fireworks, etc. OK, legit news item, *BUT* … just the way they pointed out what they were riding. *IF* I were conspiracy-minded 😀, I might think they were propagandizing the viewers to view ebikes as _”evil”,_ similar to numerous derogatory (and inaccurate) references to crimes committed with so-called *_”assault rifles”._* My guess on the _”cranks”_ issue is that *maybe* they’re trying to keep owners of non-bicycles to try to convert a scooter or something else into an _”e-bike”._

[@GoFlyYourself]

If it has a two wheels, a throttle, and more than 750w it's motorcycle. You will need an OHV sticker or be street legal with plates. The untaxed, unregulated joy ride is over. Yes the police are already cracking down on Surrons, Talarias, etc being ridden on MTB trails. It's around $400 worth of fines, most city managers have directed law enforcement not to give warnings.

[@MrBoogyman1988]

What it’s showing is how backwards we it’s really so simple let e-bikes go the same speed as traffic and and have a throttle but anytime we have anything new we have to comform to the old e-bikes should have as much power as needed but of course they want people to still rely on cars

[@MCTeck]

In my area crack down should be towards children. The get electric bikes, run red lights, ride against traffic, ride double, wheelie in cross walks etc....They might wear helmets, but no gloves and no other protective gear. I hit the pavement 55yrs ago on a motorcycle I was not wearing any gear. I got skinned up bad! First time the kids [and adults too] get "Road Rash" Remember, when you crash on two wheels, the asphalt is like a belt sander .

[@599Honda]

Pretty sure the permanently attached cranks are referring to some e-bikes that resemble scooters or motorcycles but the pedals can be removed, making them essential electric scooters.

[@9amStudio]

I dislike people who make laws on bicycles but don’t ride one.

[@ayubjob9230]

i think power output not more than 750 watts refers to less or

[@EricJaakkola]

This specifies that a class 3 bike can have a throttle so long as the throttle does not go faster than 20mph: Not a e-bike if: (D) if equipped with multiple operating modes and a throttle, has one or more modes that exceed 20 miles per hour on motor power alone.

[@ExploreYourWorld-oo3jd]

So how many tens of thousands of Enforcement Officers would they need to start checking everybody's electric bikes for compliance?? I for one am not worried one little bit

[@BlueMonkeyBicycles]

I can already hear the footsteps of an approaching politician who is ready to say "I will create more jobs!"

[@davebrown9725]

With 6 years of ebiking (mostly eMTB) experience so far (and 25 years as a year-round bike commuter), I see these confusing laws causing ever more headaches for riders and for LEOs. If my edrive system started out as 750W and I have reprogrammed the controller for 1600W, how can anyone tell? If my edrive has a "1000W" factory sticker, but has been programmed for 500W, how can I prove it to the LEO who wants to confiscate my "illegal" ebike.

[@ExploreYourWorld-oo3jd]

@@davebrown9725 where I live.. you could ride a completely illegal way overpowered electric bike and you would have zero issues. IF you weren't being in a hole on the road, just follow the traffic laws. The police are far too busy with other matters to be worried about whether a bike is in compliance or not. So unless you're being an a-hole you're not going to get pulled over or checked out. (Southwest PA)

[@brovie88]

@@ExploreYourWorld-oo3jd Pretty much the same here in Nevada. Nobody cares if you're just riding normal.

[@mangakoibitochan]

This reminds me of the issue of iowa smoking ban laws... Officially, vapes aren't covered by smoking ban laws, but there aren't any smoking ban laws. Our laws only cover air quality in the workplace 😅 you can't pollute shared air at a workplace. So that raises the question is vape counts for pollution.😅

[@atlas283]

Whats happening is that people (minors) who dont have driver licenses are operating electric motorcycles (and all sorts of other vehicles) with no training about the rules of the road. They fly down my own street at speeds far exceeding the 25 mph limit, with no helmets, and their little brother or sister on the back. It is a MOTOR VEHICLE on a CITY STREET, and should be regulated as such, for safety and for all the other reasons we register and regulate all other motor vehicles.

[@danielroyse6640]

Fascist😠

[@jeremybobb1625]

Also, placing in bold letters that a bike is not legal in a certain area makes it easier for a cop to write the owner a ticket, or confiscate the bike if multiple tickets have been issued. Responsible people should be allowed to have powerful bikes. Do not break the speed limit in confined areas. Have massive fun in open (low traffic) areas.

[@edteach3r]

I disagree with your cigarette analogy, but it is an issue of safety. Here in Vancouver Canada, things have gotten out of hand with young kids zooming along at tremendous speeds (often carrying a passenger), without helmets on ungoverned ‘e-bikes’ bought from Amazon, at huge risk to themselves and other road users. The main issue is ‘what is allowed to share cycle lanes and trails used by pedestrians and kids on push bikes’. Electric bikes/scooters that can travel beyond a certain speed with a throttle are not bicycles, and they should share the road with other powered vehicles: class 4 e-bikes (completely unrestricted speed/power) are for off-road use only on private property, class 3 e-bikes (powered without the need for pedaling, have a throttle and can exceed 34 km/h, 20 mph) are allowed on normal roads as long as it is insured in case of an accident. Class 2 e-bikes (i.e. self-powered, have a throttle, but are speed regulated to 32 km/h) can use shared bike lanes, but not public trails, and class 1 e-bikes that require to be pedaled and are restricted to 32 km/h are deemed to be bicycles and can use all bike lanes and bike trails (e-bike specified). Although these laws are clear, they are not enforced as far as I can see… until an accident occurs, that is. Recently a pedestrian on a path was struck and killed by one of these unrestricted e-bikes and the parents of the kid are now being sued. I am 65 years old and, in these litigious times, I bo not take any chances. I happily stick to my class 1 e-bicycle on which I commute to and from work every day (36 km).