The State of Hearthstone in 2024

[@DLKoakuma]

Take care Mr. Kibler. You deserve a break.

[@balazspandi9782]

He also deserves a better michrophone! :)

[@gerrydempsey8527]

Kibler is a legend❤. I’ve played hearthstone since 2014, I finally had enough this expansion and left 😢

[@WolfAZA]

@@gerrydempsey8527 Same here!

[@GolAcheron-fc4ug]

@@gerrydempsey8527 dang bro i had enough when they released baku lol

[@lordcheesus1013]

When even a "life-long" fan like Kibler is stepping away, that should tell you something about how bad the direction the game is going. He does deserve a break, but more and more streamers I used to love are either following or have already followed his example and left the game either for VERY lengthy periods of time or moving on to different games altogether. It's disheartening really.

[@Karl_Smink]

All hearthstone games now: Build an entire board Delete a board Build an entire board Delete a board Build an entire board Delete a board Build an entire board Miss one turn of removal - die

[@TurtleneckSweater-tw7hw]

Yugioh!

[@byVariations]

@@TurtleneckSweater-tw7hwyou joke but yugioh actually has an insane amount of interactions. They just happen in the course of two turns

[@DCDsauce]

​@@byVariationslong Yu-Gi-Oh games happen more often than not and they feel really rewarding, heck the meta last year was entirely about resources with decks like Runick being mainstays. Long have passed the days of "end in 5 negates"

[@ianjohnson1249]

So true. The enemy health often doesn't matter as quite often I have 25+ damage from hand. There's time where opponent is at like 45 health and it's hard to OTK them in that situation, but anything like 20-24 health, I will probably get you in 1 turn. So you pretty much have to stay at full health or higher the entire game not to die.

[@rend7979]

Exactly why i finally had to quit this year. Been playing since 2014 but the last few years really drained the joy of it for me.

[@Vitreia]

I haven't played Hearthstone in like 5 years and yet I still love your design thoughts videos!

[@us4tiyny4n]

I am hopeful that many of us, who came here for hearthstone content, are staying for Kibler and his thoughts.

[@ZionSiva]

Same here :)

[@StzaCrizzack]

Good for you

[@chrismao8815]

Man, the last time I watched one of these was during quest rogue! The nostalgia😢

[@StreetDrago]

Yup The game has never been the same for me after Yogg came out After several more ups and downs, Genn and Baki were created, absolutely insufferable. Man, I really tried to not abandon HS forever. But they Hall of Famed those two cards way too late, and I had no will to return at that point. Was still watching Omnislash because of the personalities of the hosts, and even now I’m still interested in Kiblers insight and thoughts, even though I’m a BG only player.

[@sebastiansanchezn1650]

Much love Brian! Crazy that you been doing this for over 10 years and I've been watching you for almost the same time! You were an amazing company through the covid era and I've learned a ton from you, in gaming and working sense in this years. I like how professional you always are, while being able to laugh off bad luck and avoid lingering on things that you can't control (I don't have the ability to express this the right way, but it's a good spirited!) Thanks for every laugh and deck! I really hope you enjoy your time off!

[@RARufus]

I've been playing for about 8 years now and love BK's videos. I'm still learning things from them. I don't find the current meta terrible but more lackluster. There has been much worse meta that this. Not to say it couldn't be improved because it certainly can. Wish you well in the new year friend!!

[@steffenml]

I think a lot of people don’t understand that the fact that you can choose EXACTLY what you attack, whether it is minions or face, and that health loss of minions is permanent as a baseline, are things that made Hearthstone entirely unique. If those aspects are no longer a decisive part of the game, then Hearthstone has lost a great part not just of what made it appealing in the first place, but also of its core identity. It’s just a waste of really good initial game design.

[@rondomane]

this is the natural end of power and design creep. the simple and genius thing that made HS stand out has to evolve, it has to get stronger, there has to be a reason to buy new packs, a new reason to log in. thats just what the games industry is, and will be forever until we stop giving them our money.

[@GolAcheron-fc4ug]

@@rondomane they could have done it in a better way though…

[@rondomane]

@@GolAcheron-fc4ug coulda, shoulda, woulda

[@gardian06_85]

Hearthstone stopped being about minions and board after the backlash to Rastakhan when the "majority" of the player base stated they didn't want "weak" "non-impactful" minions. The big "creators" and Reddit just didn't know what they were asking for. Those "non-impactful" minions leads to differing board states that need to be thought about to resolve, not just Rush to remove.

[@jamesbondisamonkey]

@@rondomane It's just a thoughtless statement. Nothing HAS to evolve. The devs create the idea, and through the collective ideology of devs, things do evolve, but nothing HAS to be this way. This is an entirely fictional concept. Nothing has to get stronger, this is a projection you are creating out of thin air. The devs chose to do this because it is far easier to print broken bullshit without any parameters, than to print interesting cards that retain a current power level. You simply have no idea what you're talking about, like most of the player base...and are talking nonsense like the other hearthstone clowns.

[@Tr0tim]

I've felt this playing Arena. Years ago it used to be much more about efficient minion trades, solid stat sticks, slow grinding victories. Now it feels like every game is about finding The Broken Card your opponent can't interact with, and clearing the board with (infinitely discovered) cheap spells until then :(

[@Sykomyke]

In terms of arena they just need to ban Kil'Jadon and Infinitize the Magnitude from arena. But yea, arena is even in a pretty bad spot right now.

[@Wisdomball]

Yeah it got weird in arena when I realized that my best cards weren't cards that I drafted. They were better cards that I discovered from the cards that I drafted.

[@Lors_101]

Yeah I just came back from not playing Hearthstone for 3-4 years and went on an Arena binge but the games just feel so rng based. It's either the opponent just fills their deck with discover cards and can infinetly 2 for 1 you without running out of cards because they discover more off every card or it's just a bunch of instant board vomiting that they hope to win the game off of. From games where you have to slowly eek out value and make decisions that make you come out ahead in card advantage where even an arcane missles killing your 2 health minion was infurating to games where someone rng's a 10/10 off a deathrattle or discovers a spell that vomits things on their board or clears yours while making a 10 mana minion. It's just so repetitive.

[@lukebas1162]

warrior in a nutshell

[@em_the_bee]

​​@@Sykomykeno lol Kil'Jaeden is bad in arena, 90% of the time my opponent plays it, they lose in the next turn or two

[@HauntLich]

We went from "We don't like how Leeroy Jenkins makes the game feel" to having a majority of decks on ladder be some flavor of OTK. The Hearthstone team simply doesn't know what they're doing anymore IMO.

[@arpitkumar4525]

The initial team isn't even there. I left the game in 2019 when most members of Team 5 left.

[@Skkra]

@@arpitkumar4525 Same here. I squeaked out a legend finish on the last day of 2019 with a homebrew control warlock deck, and that felt like a good way to end playing Standard. The game is way way too random now. I absolutely loved Classic while it was around and ran a homebrew control priest to legend every month that it existed. I honestly really miss Classic. Havent played Hearthstone since.

[@troybrodeyr]

I agree with what Kkiblers saying, just want to add that I think class identity has been blurred too much. You used to be able to look at each class and say oh well this class struggles with this but is great at that. Now every class has good removal, healing, board clears, draw. Some of this is due to neutrals being too powerful for sure.

[@passerby4507]

Upon reflection, this is very true. When was the last time you're thinking about damage breakpoints on your minions in anticipation of what your opponent will do? I still remember keeping some of my minions above 4 so flamestrike won't wipe me.

[@SL-oe6tj]

Had this very conversation with a Dev on Hearthstone today (I work at Activision Blizzard). I was ironically expressing my displeasure with Asteroid Shaman and how I couldn’t understand how the design and cards enabling the problem weren’t nerfed while at the same time Qasar was. The dev then asked if I had seen your video discussing this subject (I.e this video). Spot on Kibler. I miss minion based strategy and trade values with minion death rattles and effects being the most important part. I then linked your 9 year old “this guys shadow priest is sick” video and said, “I miss this hearthstone. This is peak.”

[@DiamondDM13]

This is odd. They destroyed Sorcerers Apprentice and with it my favorite deck (infinite burn Antonidas) just so they could keep designing awful cheap spell cards that generate more random crap, but now they refuse to? I'd love to understand what guides their decisions. Then again, the Apprentice decision was the last mistake they made and made me leave the game for good, so it doesn't matter much. 3 years since I left and my general mood has improved due to not being constantly frustrated with the randomness involved in hearthstone.

[@cardsharpHS]

Your favourite ever deck says YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, lol

[@DiamondDM13]

@@cardsharpHS Not really, different people have different preferences. I'm the kind who likes decks with no randomness and that deal burn damage in a huge combo. I like to play decks that require proper technical execution instead of relying on getting a random lucky effect or discover that gives me a win I shouldn't have. There are other people who aren't good at games and therefore prefer decks and games where they can randomly steal a win against better players by using a random effect that somehow gives them what they need in that exact situation. This is a design decision creators have to make, to push competitive design by making little to no randomness and giving good players the option to consistently outplay the bad players, or to design for wide audiences and for casual playing, which requires randomness and allows bad players to get lucky and beat better ones. If you go to something like Chess, you don't see the random effects that give worse players wins, you see extreme consistency from the best players. Some people find that boring because they like unexpected things, but others love it because we see absolute peak technical play on display.

[@Raniphae]

@@DiamondDM13 for what it's worth, I think you're somewhat off the mark with the notion that players enjoy randomness directly proportionate to how lacking their skill is. Kibler himself has spoken on this extensively (indeed, Discover is literally his favorite mechanic in the game, or at least it was for a very long time): he finds both engaging gameplay AND skill expression in decks that at least to some extent require him to make adaptive choices in response to his opponent-and he therefore especially appreciates when there are at least a few points of variance in how his deck performs, versus gameplay that's focused on trying to get each game to play out as similarly as possible (as is all too often the case with combo decks in current HS, due to the lack of ability to interact with the opponent's turn). That isn't to say that your own precision-oriented style of gameplay is bad or unskilled, just that RNG likewise has a place and value far beyond letting bad players get random wins.

[@DiamondDM13]

@@Raniphae RNG has value in a non competitive setting. Randomness is a factor that you try to eliminate as much as possible if your goal is to find the best player in a competition. You want to eliminate any parameter that isn't within the full control of the player. Discover is a choice between random selected options, meaning it has an even higher chance to create an unfair outcome compared to pure RNG, because instead of a single generated outcome, it is instead the best of 3 random choices. The only discover card I liked was the Rafaam IIRC, it was a huge guy that gave you always the same 4 options. It is far better design than random ones while still providing you flexibility. You are correct that it is not just bad players who enjoy randomness, but it is exclusively bad players that enjoy and benefit from randomness in a competitive setting. Randomness never provides a benefit to the better player, that player will naturally overcome the opponent using pure technical play, the result is predetermined because there is no random element. It is the factor of randomness that enables the bad player to overcome the natural result. I mean precision based playstyle is the opposite of unskilled, it is pure skill, there is no randomness in the outcomes. It's like if you said chess champions aren't the best players without a doubt, they are, they have to win purely on skill.

[@dibreman6184]

My main problem with HS right now is that I don't think neutral cards should be this powerful as they allow a very repeated play pattern across multiple decks

[@jtrain9926]

I kind of like powerful neutral cards because it spreads the meta across different classes, but yes they can't be OP, and they're naturally harder to balance

[@bhoulihan]

I feel this way about lifesteal

[@HairyBalls83]

its as simple as bringing class identity back by nerfing neutral cards, reducing card discovery and reduce mana cheat. boom solved

[@KaiteWDrey]

@@bhoulihan The only playable lifesteal neutral rn is Zilliax. Unkilliax is an issue bacause if there's one you have to face 100 like it was the clone wars or something... But if you made the virus and perfect module tied to battlecries you wouldn't be able to cheat it out meaning you actually have to pay mana for it and if your aggro deck hasn't killed your opponent by turn 9/10 there's bigger issues that lifesteal being "overly prevalent". Other then Zilliax Most lifesteal cards are basically class specific mostly being found in paladin which I think should somewhat be an heal class, maybe not to the extent buff paladin is but that's a different matter, deathknight, were the problem is rainbow being the only viable archetype, and warlock maybe...? I can't really think of may classes where lifesteal is overly abundant

[@Threeve703]

you're absolutely right. Some of the most problematic minions in Hearthstone have been busted neutrals that every class can abuse.

[@Vecuka]

Every time I see Ethereal Oracle after Incindius being played makes me die inside.

[@OriginalDrGonzo]

Every time I see a launched arkonite defense crystal swallowed by a revenant I decide I'm happy to play asteroid shaman.

[@chadgamer6942]

See but your issue there isnt oracle its incindius killing you from deck theres be way less problems with drawing 2 spells if every one didnt go face

[@temperedglass1130]

Go find a new hobby. why you still here. Jesus.

[@EmporerOfMumbai]

Soulstealer DK free board clear and body makes me want break phone never pay bill again

[@LenManning-zu9wk]

Thanks Brian . I don’t know you and you dont know me . However, you have been part of my life for a long time . Probably the better part of a decade of memory serves. You’ve been the voice of sanity and fun for a long time. You deserve a break . You’re a legend to any Hearthstone fan. Take care and Merry Christmas.

[@kanegregory5779]

This sums up my feelings about the current state of the game very well, although I would like to add one more thing: The reason removal needs to be so powerful is that board building has also become too powerful. If you remove OTKs and efficient board removal from the game, I don't think you end up with minion combat - you just get instant boards overwhelming the opponent and winning the game.

[@remyllebeau77]

You are talking about Dungar Druid or something else?

[@an_wobbly]

I took a 5 year hiatus from Hearthstone content and recently got in the mood to watch Brian's video yesterday. That was the thing that I found so appalling: I was watching turn 5 3 3/3s with divine shield for 6 mana cost turns and just thought - what in the world happened to this game for this board state to develop so easily now? Then Velen basically getting revivals sustained for up to 6 or 7 turns, so each wipe you can get 7 juiced giants with taunt and a scaling deathrattle effect, nearly every card in your deck being a wombo combo enabler. I couldn't imagine trying to get into Hearthstone at this point with the intent to become competitive. Huge turn-off for new players looking for a card game.

[@kanegregory5779]

@@remyllebeau77 Dungar Druid, Dazzler DK/Shaman, Giant Rogue, Flood Paladin... When one falls from grace, it seems another rises to take its place

[@mst4705]

If there's an op way to build a board you nerf it. Powerful removal is not the correct answer. It can be part of the game, but not prominent. If you ever feel like it's not worth playing a minion centered deck, then the game is not fun (for me of course)

[@kanegregory5779]

@@mst4705 I agree, but the problem is that the game has escalated to a point where there is very little that can be done without nerfing an insane amount of cards (even after rotation). Should it be done? Probably. Will it be done? I'm not convinced

[@Poemsandotherthings]

Completely agree. My gripes with the game are more along the lines of "the game is bad now" rather than "x needs nerfed". Winning should usually be about incremental advantage. Not one turn plays that you can either cope with immediately or instantly die.

[@driskull4249]

Its not also promising for the future of hearthstone when they stated they weren't doing new game boards for every expansion and only one per year. "Hey, sorry. We know theirs this feature that you all have loved for 10 years, but we can't make money off to of it so......we're not gonna do it anymore. Buy our new diamond card bundles!" Yeah, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but that's not at all a good sign of game longevity if that's the corners that are starting to get cut.

[@TomJakobW]

they turned this game from quality to mobile game slop yeeeears ago and are now just milking the last people who are sticking with the game due to habit amidst the ever-shrinking player numbers.

[@WinnieTheDrew957]

I feel you so much on the point of taking away the "fun" of the game. I hit this point a few years ago when it felt like Discover completely took over the game. Most of the fun I got from the game involved me knowing more or less what my opponent had and what I had, and trying to play to my outs in the best way possible. Eventually Discover started giving too many random choices that could just break the game and invalidate everything you did before it to try and set up a win. Back when I played regularly, you were always a streamer I would check in on because I really like the way you analyze the overall game design and health of the meta. I was genuinely hoping to click on this video and hear that things had turned around and were trending in a good direction because I really loved playing this game. Enjoy your break and happy holidays.

[@sathrielsatanson666]

If you hated Discover back then oh boy: there is a strong Discover Hunter deck (well, several in fact), meme-y discover Cutlass Rogue and basically every class have discover coming out of the wazoo, especially spell only Mage.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

blood dk discovering that fourth corpse explosion, druid discovering a whelp for curve to ramp early, warrior hard running four brawls and they still have to discover more.................

[@alenpinter6321]

So many scam decks,solitaire hearthstone

[@zeleros4027]

I agree with what you've discussed in the video. There is a few things that I'd wished you talked about though. One of the most notable aspects to the problems you've talked about is the pushed lethality on strategies. While there is a deck that sort of locks out a game, most control decks aren't really control decks anymore, they are just slow combo or OTK decks. Odyn is the prime example I'd use, but with things like Wheel of Death or Climactic Necrotic Explosion, even when you play a slower strategy its aim is still to explode and one shot the opponent. Not that long ago we had Thaddius scams and Brann one shots before that. It's not even just about spell based OTK decks like Garrote Rogue or Asteroid Shaman, no matter what deck is played the games are either hyper aggro or somebody getting one shot. Exasperating this issue is the forced archetypes every expansion. Every deck is basically the same because the class as a whole is forced down a particular path. Every single Hunter used to play wildseeds because it was just so generically good it was the backbone of every deck. Every single DK plays plagues in some way because why not. Druids play the dragon package, and the list goes on. The reverse is true too though, when these packages fail the class is left completely empty. Remember when Warlock got a half murloc package in Sunken City and then not only did it fail but they never got anything to do with murlocs after that? Warlock felt like it had gotten half a set, but the other half of curses were played ad naesum. When everything is forced down the same route, and the creativity is stifled, then its going to worsen the problems present. It feels even worse dying to Sif or Ethereal Oracle because every game you go into it just expecting the same gameplay. There is also the issue with the death of value. There is no point in getting value in the long term because of cards like Kil'Jaden. Conceptually its a really cool card, but it's existence just pushes a game state where the only real option is to one shot an opponent. It's impossible to out last somebody now, so why even bother. You said it best though, it's just sad to see this happen to the game you once felt so strongly about.

[@sathrielsatanson666]

The problem of nattow class focus is also the result of small card pool. Note this: In MTG there are 5 colours in HS there are 10 classes. Typical MTG expansion is about 250-270 cards while HS sets have about 150 cards. So while HS class gets 13 cards per set a colour in Magic gets around 40-50. The difference is staggering and that is even before you think that you can mix all the colours in Magic unlike classes in HS. That's why usually packages are inflexible in HS because there is only so many cards.

[@zeleros4027]

@sathrielsatanson666 While I do think that they could go for increasing the card pool per expansion, i don't think it has the biggest impact on things. They've always had about the same amount of cards per expansion from the very first set of GvG. But they never forced archetypes like they do now. Sure there was often synergy that they encouraged but players could figure things out for themselves and make new decks. But when half of the set is purely around one thing, naturally it's going to funnel everybody down that one route. TGT created a whole new deck archetype in secret paladin with the introduction of a single card. We just don't get that kind of stuff anymore

[@TheBiomedZed]

Exacerbated. The word you were looking for was exacerbated, not exasperated.

[@Leperkon360]

Kil’ Jaeden would be so fun if druids weren’t allowed to use it because in a situation where both players play the kil jaden the same turn the Druid will always win because he has a maximum mana pool of 19 or something crazy from new heights and tide poll pupil and can always play multiple demons per turn and is usually holding onto an Eonar to draw cards until his hand is full. The way they design this game is so irritating

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

I exclusively homebrew, and it drives me nuts trying to play this game because the skill based matchmaking compensates for a lack of data on your deck by matching you up with insane RNG decks and swing decks, to farm data to better balance your next games. as a result I have developed literal PTSD from the nonsense that this game does lol.

[@swiggy923]

I feel like class identity has been lost again in HS. Yes classes have architypes built into sets, but I think most classes can still do most of what every other class can. To comment on the OTK decks, I think that kind of deck should be a class specific thing, like Rogue for example.

[@michalrehacek3462]

I don’t think you are right about class identity missing. Dk is the class which can raise its default hp, Warlock is still able to sac health for card advantage and powerful plays while being exposed to burn and silence effects. It would really suck if you couldn’t be creative and be able to build otk style in paladin/ aggro and also control. The same for other classes. Class identity shouldn’t restrict control/aggro/otk archetypes. It usually revolved around things which are still in the game as the afore mentioned warlock or dk but also. Druid and hunter are not really able to react to early minions, rogue lacks class specific healing cards. Paladin lacks debuffs and has to focus on minion oriented decks. Dh and rogue have strong mana cheat and card draw engines, and dh is able to buff the heroes attack and benefit and has strong aggressive shell usually. It’s not the identity, which is an issue but the interactivity missing which Brian is describing.

[@chadgamer6942]

​​@@michalrehacek3462"paladin has to focus on minion oriented decks" except the best paladin deck is lynessa otk paladin... and the best rogue deck was sonya otk

[@connorthornberg]

I don't think it should be class specific, but a combo should be something you have to build up to. You should have to spend the whole game assembling the pieces in order to get your win, like the jormungar hunter combo deck from last year, or OG Raza Priest, or even Mecha'thun and Shudderwock. You couldn't just go off super early with any of those decks, you needed to spend the whole game surviving and getting all of the pieces together in order to be able to pull it off.

[@michalrehacek3462]

​@@connorthornberg I see your point and I am not even sure I disagree with you much. For argument's sake, let's consider the pros and cons. Having a direct damage pop-off only in decks which focus solely on building up towards a combo does sound nice on paper because you have time to try and beat them down in the meantime with your more proactive gameplay. On the other hand, for such decks to be playable and meta relevant, they will either be uninteractive and unstoppable, because it wouldn't make sense to play a combo deck which does "just 20 damage" and relies on the rest of the damage to come from other sources. That will also most likely lead to the "rock paper scissor" meta, where all aggro decks basically do beat any combo deck, all combo decks basically beat any combo deck and no control deck has any chance of counterplaying the combo decks We have seen some interesting ways to play against combo decks by either outarmoring or disrupting their combo pieces. I don't particularly like the design of current elemental mage, I think it is too simple and too dimensional, but zarimi priest is on the right track I think. You have a deck which can play an aggro role, it most of the times plays something like a midrange turn 5-6 board based minion fight, but when its efforts fail (or in unfavorable matchups) you don't need to just give up, you can play towards an alternate win condition or "last ditch effort" - which is zarimi + expanse + cheese OTK. And the perfect thing about that type of design is, you actually need to hold onto the cheese at least 6-9 turns in advance to actually be able to summon a menacing enough board to beat a proper armored up control deck. That type of design also forces control decks to have build in some tempo tools as well. It is fine if a deck like infinite expanse warrior exists, (which just sits back and does nothing apart from clearing the board and gaining armor) - but it should be inherently weak against anything which can punish the lack of pressure. Most other control decks should be trying to stabilize and then use some tempo cards to force the zarimi priest like midrange and aggro decks to use waste their OTK just to survive. All in all, the biggest positive of having multifaceted decks is that it is more balanced, more skill testing and it doesn't matter as much which deck you pick or queue into, but how you understand the matchup and how well you play. I have seen and even enjoyed OG OTK decks like Mecathun priest - that had no other win condition apart from destroying and playing through the whole deck and then queing 5 consecutive actions and winning. Was it skill testing? Deck building sure... playing first few games to learn the combo? sure it wasn't intuitive. But once you learned the very simple combo, you just kept repeating the same thing again and again and again. Even if you wanted to counteract your opponent's gameplan in any way, you didn't have the tools to. As mentioned, I played the deck and I somewhat enjoyed it, but I wouldn't describe it as particularly healthy for the meta and it definitely wasn't emphasizing skill in hearthstone.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

class identity has always been a meme. the neutral cards keep it all generically samey

[@garryame4008]

I miss the older, slower gameplay of hearthstone. I really miss the year of the mammoth

[@azuz8258]

20:00 Forgot to mention Griftah, infinte neutral mind control with charge

[@Sereaphim]

I feel Hearthstone is a point where they need a new format. A reset of the powercreep and new vision that is more focused on minion based hearthstone. And that they revitalize of the class identity and to make neutral cards much weaker again or give them more draw backs if they powerful.

[@Emanu_e_l]

They kinda tried over the years with "Classic", "Twist", "Duel" and so on. I personally think that HS got bloated with powercreep, even with a standard rotation, and the latest expansion is far from enough to remove so much powercreep.

[@Sereaphim]

​@@Emanu_e_l I was thinking about a permanent format same as pioneer or modern. Because I feel you can't create a expansion with less power in standard/rotation because you still have the old expansion in the rotation with the more powerful cards. So you end up with just a underwhelming expansion and people still play the old powerful cards. Even if that expansion would have been a more healthy direction for the game it get crushed but all the old sets.

[@zyella277]

Classic was low power lvl old school but deleted and twist could be , except the added new cards from caverns and moderns buff (many to already good/best cards from back then and then malorne randomly got nerfed)

[@nightcoreinsanity1294]

Same thing happened for me with Shadowverse, I played from the very first expansion till the 10th and had to quit because the game got so fast that the enemy would kill me turn 4/5/6 and that's not enjoyable

[@BloodyArchangelus]

At the end of the day shadowverse have cool cards. And cute girls )

[@nightcoreinsanity1294]

@BloodyArchangelus expect runecraft

[@xPoohx7]

First of all, Brian, I hope you have a great time during the vacation and happily celebrate the end of the year. You deserve the break like no one else. The main idea is clear, and I agree: we were at the point where controlling the board was crucial. After that, we saw so many interactions that led us to nowhere. There were bright times, but mostly, it wasn't so fun. We had some philosophical problems like OTK with Leeroy, Shadowstep, Leeroy, Shadowstep + Oil. Now we're at the spot where we tried to fix lots of problems and created so many instruments (powerful cards). Power creep is crazy. I played for the Team Empire at the beginning of the esports scene, and I couldn't dream about cards that discover spells or creatures, create duplicates, or control the board without even having a physical presence. Now I'm scared to play each without feeling it will be destroyed or stolen immediately. And because of that, I need to build my deck with backup plans. And it's so annoying. Sometimes I don't see the idea anymore. It's not even enough today to have it, because you need to have an answer for every threat, and it's impossible. In the meantime, there are so many great, interesting, and fun cards that suffocating because of the design issues. I hope next year will show us something great. Otherwise, I'll come back to Magic, to the lovely game that can be boring and annoying too, especially at the ladder.

[@shadic303]

The main that’s killing HS and has always been its Achilles heel imo is the general lack of ability to interact with your opponent on THEIR turn. Secrets are the only thing that allow you to do that, but they’re restricted to 4 classes and two of them(Rogue and Paladin) really only get them as archetype gimmicks. Yugioh is a game with a ridiculous amount of explosive plays, but the presence of hand traps and monster effects you can use on your opponent’s plays means you have the chance to stop a huge combo before it can get off the ground. Now one might argue that Yugioh is currently in a state in which there is “too much” interaction, where playing the game through a giant board of negations can feel hopeless, but I think it’s much healthier for a card game to have too much interaction than not enough. In HS, you can’t really interact with your opponent’s plays, so every turn is a fight to just try to answer the aftermath of a mega combo or you’re screwed and sometimes it just doesn’t matter because all the damage is hiding in their deck or they’ve already drawn a million cards. The design philosophy of low interaction is not inherently a bad one, but that means you can’t print cards like Sonya which can pretty much win on the spot and who’s only real limitation is the rope.

[@next-genleap3533]

The, "Hearthstone isn't a game for me anymore" realization came earlier this year for me after I picked up Hearthstone again after a 7 year hiatus last year.

[@Pico141]

Similarly, I used to play from 2015 to 2017, came back in april 2024 and boy, Standard mode is just a complete shitshow, minion combat is barely existent, it was just OTK or boards full of 8/8 minions on turn 4

[@lauritxbang457]

Im surprised you didnt talk about the rampant lifesteal the game has, why would I consider damaging my opponent over multiple turns when I know he can play unkilliax that almost always heals them 16? The game has gotten into a place where you don't feel safe at 15 health, which means you have to include a ton of heal or armor, as that's the little interactivity you have.

[@Emanu_e_l]

Unkilliax made me completely stop queuing in hs, as a semi-agro/midrange player, I gave up. It's sad because I used to love HS for years but I just can't deal with the frustration anymore.

[@greenposay3993]

Blizzard is unable to make decisions anymore. Unkilliax should have been removed a while ago, everyone knows it, but no, they wait for months to save what ? 1600 free dust ?

[@FantomaBatePalma01]

why standard looks like wild ?

[@DiabloTommaso]

trust me wild is worse. it s getting closer but the efficiency of old cards is better

[@brendondavid7349]

Bob is horrible for the game for exactly all the reasons you said, but what makes it even more egregious is that the effect of selling your opponent's minion to give them 3 coins isn't even a battlegrounds mechanic. The ability SHOULD BE "sell a friendly minion to your opponent, add 3 coins to your hand" now it is flavourful and less likely to piss off your opponent by making their decisions not matter.

[@chuckles471]

I agree with the rush being too prevalent. I think they thought "we fixed charge by making rush, now we can use this mechanic as much as we want". Like how they design cards now is, if they don't think the a card is good enough they just throw a rush tag on it. I honestly think that rush should be only given to couple of cards per set going forward.

[@Sykomyke]

Except they brought back charge. It's all honestly really stupid. Why make the rush mechanic, even the devs back in Ben Brode's day admitted that Charge as a horribly keyword to balance around. So they rotated charge out, started printing rush cards...and now apparently the new devs in charge of hearthstone decided "hey let's bring it back". Leeroy is in this year's core set. And a slew of other cards now have charge printed on them.

[@PenitusVox]

But the reason that rush is so prevalent is because minion wipes are so common and easy. If the card doesn't immediately do something the moment you play it, you may as well have just skipped your turn because it won't exist by the time you get back to playing again. If minions could actually stick on the board, you wouldn't need an immediate effect like rush.

[@bobseltheslimeking]

Started playing Hearthstone right when it came out, when I was still in school. Never spent a cent and stopped playing 4-5 years ago. Still watched your videos and am happy for you!

[@estogaza5255]

I can remember a few times in the past where Kibler made these videos, and the Devs ackknowledged him and changed the game. Examples are Genn/Baku, and The Crystal Core, etc. I hope this video finds its way to the dev team and they make the corrections. Or is it Leo Robles ?

[@bmkibler]

Leo is great.

[@estogaza5255]

@@bmkibler Maybe so, in the twitch chat's i've been in and things online, people have him as the focal point for changing the game. I don't have access to the dev teams process etc, so I am only going off of that.

[@onixhastaser1297]

As a returning wild player, I am caught off guard on how card effects that the devs would have considered taboo in the past are now being implemented. From the titans expansion onwards there is now discarding cards from the opponents hand, stealing the maximum hp from a player, summoning free minions forever, denying deathrattles, also titan and auras cards that offer triple the value of normal cards.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

different dev team, thats it.

[@shade3385]

The insane board clears and steal effects is crazy. I was playing a deck that was really building up my starship, but the whole time I didn't want to activate it once because I was afraid of bob. Or a board wipe. Or Mc tech, Etc. Really tells you what state of the game we are in.

[@mrsweetkandy7673]

Yes. It's so frustrating cause building up power slowly feels satisfying because you're going towards a payoff.. but it becomes stressful to get to that payoff cause you know it's not gonna matter if the opponent has the right answer, so you just hope it wasn't for nothing

[@OriginalDrGonzo]

Like Kibler said, he feels Great Dark Beyond is a better step in a better direction, but the nature of rotation means these cards are going to be slow to cycle out. Blizzard is more than likely aware of our complaints and is probably planning to rectify it, but its going to take some time.

[@mrsweetkandy7673]

@@OriginalDrGonzo we thought the same when they pulled out weaker expansions (was it saviors of uldum?) They quickly backpedaled with the next expansion iirc Problem is that the rotation being this slow means they're essentially having to sell strong cards in order to convince people to buy them. People would rather buy strong expansions than weak ones

[@leethackeray7430]

Haven’t played HS in awhile, but saw your post and had to watch. Over the years, always appreciated your thoughts on the game. Enjoy your time away.

[@davidmeehan1599]

Bob is so crazy to me. They obviously wanted to print a flashy card to get people to log in and play during the event, but it entirely ruins many of the mechanics printed in the new set, and is so stupid is just making people not want to play lol. It really feels like the designers who made it completely made it in a vacuum just for the event, and didnt even look at what cards were in standard atm.

[@OrmyGaming]

I've played HS almost daily since 2015, until this expansion. For the first time I didn't buy the tavern pass and I just quit the game almost on the spot when I realized that I wasn't having fun anymore. Then they changed the dailies/weeklies back to win, which made it feel like a chore again and that broke it for me. The metas haven't been my style, I haven't liked many of the new decks and playing the same old got boring. I wish HS good times ahead but I'm out. Thank you for everything Kibler, it's been wonderful!

[@Sestze]

Appreciate all you do and all the content you make, man. Enjoy the break, hope you emerge again reinvigorated and refreshed.

[@niightmaregaming]

I just came back to HS after about a year off. I peak around plat 1 so im not a top player by any means but I noticed the sheer amount of games that I just leave in now is kinda crazy. I love playing minion based tempo decks, control the board, make smart trades, know when to not extend vs go all in etc. Thats peak hearthstone for me. Ive realized in playing these decks im literally just playing minion grinder simulator. I'll spend all my mana to build a board and then itll get wiped the next turn with 0 actual interaction with my opponent like you mentioned. Rinse and repeat for about 4 turns of my board getting wiped without a single minion really attacking or being attacked and im like ight I guess I just leave? Its really boring and unfortunately the decks that just wipe minions off the board with little to no minion interaction are the best decks. If I even sniff a zilliax game I just leave because I know its gonna be a 15 min game of me slamming all my minions into a never ending death machine until I run out of cards and lose

[@Warshack]

Well spoken, I think a lot of us are in the same boat of thoughts

[@nobodyknows1036]

At this point I have no faith in Blizzard anymore, they keep making mistake after mistake. I remember when the mass nerfs happened in whiz bang where they acknowledged that games lacked agency, then perils in paradise release and they completely abandoned that philosophy for a bunch of otk and hyper aggro decks. They even said that they thought that the meta game was in a good spot during this, it’s like they don’t even know what to do with their own game anymore.

[@jamesbondisamonkey]

It is because their primary objective is to sell packs. They know they can sell packs with flashy nonsense, because that is what little children like. Putting one powerful card down and getting a dopamine hit sells far better than playing a game of chess...so these aren't mistakes, these are simply marketing strategies to make money. The reason they nerf stuff is to give the image to the public that they 'care'....but if they really cared, they would test and think before printing such nonsense. They do not care about anything but their bottom line, and the player base is SOOO addicted to their dopamine hits, that they will continue to come back, like a rat to its cheese. If players stopped buying , they would change their strategy. So this is not blizzard's fault. They are capitalistic, greedy, but they pander to their audience, and it is the mass audience of really dumb players which continue to create the demand for such horrible and thoughtless game design. So you should look around you , and realize, it's people to blame...not the devs.

[@MrMockRock]

I haven't played Hearthstone in a few years, but I still like to check in every now and then to see what it's up to. The amount of times "what it's up to" means "draining the interactivity back out of the game after the last time they learned their lesson about draining the interactivity out of the game" is legitimately baffling at this point

[@Torrenaxe]

Dont worry guys just play handbuff paladin for another 3 years

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

I AM ALREADY DOING THAT?!?!!??!

[@Nazdormi]

Thanks for always being a positive & informative influence in the hearthstone community Brian!!

[@kaiminus]

While you were talking about wanting the game to be more about minion combat, it made me realized I really missed Runeterra.

[@ryanbugle]

Blizzard: "Silence is too good and feels kinda bad, let's basically remove it from the game." Also Blizzard: "What if we printed a bunch of modal steal effects that our keyword we made for protection (elusive) doesn't even stop? That sounds fun!"

[@Mullen_Malla]

Hey Kibler, I can completely understand you. When your favourite game goes not the direction you want it to go. It is just hard to accept since we always hope it will turn in the future but we get dissapointed everytime.

[@adriangar95]

I watch your videos before sleep every night for years, I am talking years! Like 5 o 6 even more so I am glad you take a break you deserve it you are the best Brian!

[@lorgan9595]

Well said Kibler, 100% agree. Enjoy your break!

[@LordKeram]

YES! I have been waiting for someone to do a video like this for so long. I have started playing HS in literally beta and had a ton of fun playing it nonstop for like 2 years. Since then I always come back for like a month, then get bored of the repetition of current HS and quit. It used to be like a month on and month off, but recently I take progressively longer and longer breaks and stick with the game for shorter and shorter durations. Classic HS and the following couple of expansions have been such a revelation coming from Magic. HS by it's very nature is way more focused on board control as unlike Magic, minions don't restore health and again unlike in magic as the attacker you actually choose the trades you want. However this has simply not been how HS works for the last couple of years. I feel like nowadays class identity doesn't exist, deck identity doesn't really exist and instead we have a never ending rotation of OTK/boardflood/endless card draw decks, which dominate the ladder for 2 weeks to a month at a time before they inevitably get gutted, the wheel spins one notch and the 2nd best deck takes it's place, rinse repeat over and over.

[@Hossyboy420]

Thanks for the update Brian “Brian Kibler” Kibler

[@corn_Burns]

i genuinely appreciate your discussion videos more than you could imagine. not only are you one or maybe only person ive heard talk about games on a deeper level in a meaningful way, you dont succumb to internet standards of making my arguement cool and anyone elses the soyjack guy lol hope your break goes well and happy holidays!

[@gabpintov]

See you next year, Brian. Get a well deserved break!! And thank you for always talk about this game with so much passion, enthusiasm and in-depth criticism!

[@leSesam]

i still be rewatching your old videos cause they show peak hearthstone where i had fun with the game. take care kibler!

[@robertmorris9450]

I have been a fan since you were an MTG pro. I watch your content and have long since stopped playing hearthstone. I hope you have a safe and happy holiday.

[@shubhamboseroy]

Hey Brian! Thanks for making this video. I left traditional hearthstone a year ago after 8 years of playing it. I was too frustrated by the end of it. What you say here I think articulates precisely the crux of my frustration. When I left there was no scope for experimentation with your board. It was like either you play those high meta decks which gets boring after prolonged repetition, or you experiment with your board interactions knowing that your opponent will be those same few decks and I lose, which gets boring and frustrating...

[@MatchesMalone39]

I agree that the lack of interaction is a problem, but that might be what attracts some people to Hearthstone. Some people don't like counterspells like in mtg or hand disruption, or even instant speed effects all together. Hearthstone gives people who want that experience a game to play. I left Hearthstone a while ago, but still keep up with news here and there. Sometimes you realize a games just isn't for you anymore.

[@bmkibler]

The limited level of opponent's turn interaction is okay when decks aren't killing you in one turn, but really stings when combos are everywhere

[@AdvanceWarrior]

I started playing Pre-Old Gods up to Witchwood. It's nice to see you pop up on my feed occasionally and I'm impressed with your dedication. I tried playing Hearthstone again before Whizbang came out and I feel like those years of not playing have really left me in the dark. The game feels like anything I play isn't "good enough." I think you said it best that a Minion has to have an immediate impact for it to be good now. Also... I am also a F2P and my highest Rank ever was 17 in Un'Goro. I don't hate The Great Dark Beyond, but I don't feel like I'm in a place where I can rightfully say if it's done good or not. It does feel like Midrange Decks aren't in a great spot right now though, and I like Control decks but it never feels like a real "Win Condition." But take that break, Brian. I'm certain you deserve one and we'll all see what happens in the future. o7

[@amaranthus4206]

Very well put. I've been achievement hunting a lot lately, and since I know the decks are going to be bad anyway, I include tons of stuff I like flavourwise, play legendaries I have that I wouldn't play in a competitive deck. And I don't mind that I'm losing a lot. The decks are bad, there's no getting around it. But I want to do my thing every once in a while. Have played an obscure Pain Warlock list with Party Planner Vona and the sheer amount of games where Ouroboros' deathrattle does not even trigger a single time, because the opponent just kills me with a spell, poofs it with Reno or Aman Thul, steals it with Bob or Yogg, silences it or whatever is so frustrating. Also, I hate that fatigue does not matter anymore, mostly due to all the problems listed in the video. The most fun games I've ever had ended with 5,6,7 fatigue damage after running through all of mine and the opponent's deck. No matter if I win or lose, if I'm the aggressor or defender, those games are just way more satisfying than the quick ones.

[@cokacgr]

I rarely post on KZbin but this was a nice opportunity to do so. Firstly, well said Kibler, enjoy your break. As Kibler said, many a time a went home and just opened Hearthstone and played a game or two, but nowadays, I just never do that. The game is insanely frustrating for anyone who actually wants to use their brain to play. For me, it's just the crazy discrepancy between meta and non-meta decks. I've been playing Hearthstone for years and I always liked control-ish or mid-range stuff. And yes, smorc, loop, and OTK decks always existed, but right now the game is just insufferable. There is no way to prevent your death and you just passively wait for your defeat. All this pushes you to a state that you either play meta decks or just suffer. I'm not even talking about climbing the ranked ladder, I'm talking about FUN. As for ranked play, I just lose to players not able to count their available mana just because their decks cannot be countered in any way. This has been happening for numerous expansions now (pre-nerf Sire Denathrius, Tickatus warlock etc.). I just don't get why Warrior has a pack that clears everything and OTKs you in one turn as well. I don't understand especially DK, who has been getting insane cards pack after pack, with insane value generation, board clear, and has like 10 decks which are all meta. The game is in a sad place really and I feel like the devs are people who don't even play the game. Oh, let's give hunters draw/discover :)

[@Goldmageman]

Thank you for really articulating and explaining not just the frustration but drilling down to root causes around philosophy, commitment, and consistency. Rare to see such an intelligent argument around what is wrong and realism regarding the depths of the problem and how deep it is. There isn’t a quick fix, a simple toning down of the power outliers that will solve this problem. It’s always been around the design philosophy and it feels like we’ve reached the point where all the seasoned designers with deep knowledge of card game ecosystems have left and it’s and there isn’t anyone to communicate the necessary design boundaries to keep the game constrained enough so cards are both interesting and interactive for both players.

[@Killzun]

Enjoy the break good sir! I deleted the game 2 months ago, have been playing since it started but this year was the final nail in the coffin. Glad to see a level headed person point this out. That means more EDH games!?

[@Boogapikka]

I always appreciate your perspective and I also couldn’t agree more. You’ve been the voice of reason for the game and in my opinion I feel like you care more about the game and the play experience, (not just for yourself, but for all player), than the developers do. It’s always befuddled me why, when many streamers, not just yourself, have been vocal about this disastrous play pattern that has been forced upon us, why the devs DONT listen. I’ve lost count on how many streamers HS has lost because of the arrogance of the design team, and if they don’t make drastic changes and soon, HS will continue to dwindle down until there’s no one left playing.

[@zerozeus3267]

Yugioh player here. I have not played Hearthstone in years. What Kibler is describing in this video is a phenomenon that we as yugioh players have witnessed many times throughout our game history. Yugioh is vastly different from what it was 10 years ago, and 10 years ago it was very different from what it looked like in 2002, when it came out in the west. Constantly we have returning players from the time that pot of greed was legal complaining that they came back to the game and it is completly different from what they remembered. Hearthstone is a 10 year old game now, so naturally it has changed significantly little by little over time, to a point that it feels like it is not about the same thing anymore, as Kibler described. In my understanding this change has made a lot of players quit the game, because it is not the game they wanted to play, it is not "Hearthstone". So i will try to give some hints, based on what i have seen happen in yugioh. If you are considering quitting Hearthstone, i would invite you to reflect on what do you like about it. Do you like the game play patterns that were common back in the day? The characters? Whatever it is, think if that really has changed in these 10 years, because just as some things always change, some always stay the same. And if at the end of that self reflection you arrive at the conclusion that you want to keep playing Hearthstone, stop focusing on what the game is not anymore, and try to find what you like about what it is. Because it will never be again what it once was. The yugioh players that have spent the most years playing it are not the ones that love playing the game the most, they are the ones that were able to like and appreciate the many different ways yugioh was yugioh.

[@noah3279]

So, as just a guy who plays these games, I have a suggestion. I'm no designer, and I have no clue how this would impact the game when it comes to balance, and actually fixing the issues we have. I've always wondered what would happen if we put proactive instants into the game? I don't mean secrets that you set on your turn, and then they proc automatically say, the first spell your opponent casts if it's ice trap, or the first opponent minion summoned if it's explosive runes. What I mean are cards that cost mana, that you have in your hand, and like mtg, you can activate at instant speed on your opponent's turn in response to their actions? This would require increasing the turn timer, and all those who just want a quick game will have to deal with a bit longer games and more paying attention, but I've wondered if this would help smooth out so many of the issues we see. You could have an instant that says, "When your opponent plays a minion, counter it, counter it." Same for spells, there could be lots of different ones with class flavors, would be cool to see a pali be able to have a card that gives the hero divine shield for an attack, a warrior that would maybe gain armor equal to the attack of the minion attacking it, there could be so many cool things done with them. We already have artifact-like cards now, cards that you play that have an activated ability on board, why not instants? If they can make locations, they should make cards we can use on the opponent's turn, just let me freaking disrupt them while they're actually doing the darn combo.

[@runes.nielsen2084]

If I was a game designer I'd create cards that encouraged minion-only decks. We've seen several spell-only decks (especially in mage,) but few minion-only cards. And as you wisely point out the most winning decks focusing on non-minion cards just lead to the opponent playing with themselves without any interaction with you. This solitarie style play leads to NO fun for your opponent while minion combat is more interactive.

[@kennethxu1789]

The problem with ethereal oracle is it’s a card that does so much at once. Role compression of extra damage and draw. Hearthstone kind of needs a hard reset. Because the good cards have to be extremely powerful, so much so that you’re pushed into a very specific decklist and playstyle. And the bad cards are so bad that you can’t really make them work even at a for fun level. It’s not the worst meta of all time. But it’s tiring to realize that I’ve been playing the game for about 7 years and I no longer get excited looking at new legendaries or archetypes. 17:30 bob! Oh bob! What a card! A textbook example of role compression! They put 4 cards into 1 card! Even a reno, lone ranger is role compression. Silence and clear the board, but also limit their board space and get a new hero power. I was playing wild before the last expansion. A lot of reno decks were playable. But rogue was EXTREMELY strong, with multiple aggro archetypes that were thriving. I watched videos talking about how rogue had too much draw and too much damage and when rogue got nerfed, I thought the meta would be more fun. Instead shadow priest and questline warlock became the meta. That’s what happens if hearthstone just prints a weaker expansion; old decks are strong, and when nerfed, other old decks take their place. That’s why twist could have been a very interesting gamemode. But it’s impossible, because blizzard won’t change anything.

[@falconom8329]

I forced myself to take a break from hs too. Disenchanted all of my standard cards to close off any way back into the game. And it works :)

[@RARufus]

You're the best BK!! Take care and be well! Wish you nothing but the best in the new year and beyond!!

[@byVariations]

My biggest annoyance is that they make cards like Bob and Reno which are just so obviously a problem but they go ahead and print it. But then pre nerf AFKay. I really want to understand the philosophy

[@eren__morwen5947]

Bruh I didn’t check out Heartstone for like 4 years and this popped up on my page and Kibler is still doing HS videos that’s crazy 💀💀

[@megatenshi]

I'm glad to see I'm not alone in feeling this way. I finally uninstalled HS the other day because the ways I like playing just haven't been that important or fun for so long. I'm hopeful that post rotation it'll be better, I'll probably come back if it is.

[@kaseywahl]

A well-deserved break. As someone who is taking a couple weeks from work for the holidays and because of severe burnout at work, I completely understand the need to recharge the batteries. Wishing you and yours well!

[@riccardomazzaro1901]

I played a Make a Wish Shaman deck yesterday and I was surprised by how well it performed: after a bit of a slow start, I started to be able to reliably play one huge minion after another. Like, every turn I was dropping huge minions with taunt that copy themselves: nothing that had an immediate impact on board, but still something that the enemy had to deal with. I faced three opponents and each of them had a slow deck, so theoretically the best kind of deck to face with a deck like the one I was playing: yet, not only did I not win a single game, I decidedly lost each of them without there ever being a possibility for me to get the game back. The pattern was always the same: the enemy decks had massive removals, often in the form of minions like Unkilliax, and always managed to destroy all of my stuff, no matter how many times I flooded the board, then they used their win con to inevitably outvalue me or kill me from hand. Hearthstone today is all like this: even when you're against slower decks, it slowly but surely becomes a "I play a thing which creates a board and destroys your board, then you do the same" until someone fails to do so and loses. There was a time when dropping a Nzoth just to summon a board of powerful minions was enough to make it one of the strongest control cards in the game; today, to play a card like that you would need to have deathrattles that specifically impact the board or win you the game. Just like Kibler, I have grown tired of playing Hs if it's constantly like this. My favourite metagames were the ones in which I could play midrange decks which had decent defense strategies against aggro and decent value tools to face control; today, such a deck could not exist because aggro decks need constant removal to be faced and control decks are completely unbeatable lategame. It's boring as hell and I am honestly on the verge to just stop playing altogether.

[@turgonnaish]

Yea mid range feels bad right now. Too slow for the aggro and too slow for ultra control

[@alex2d]

As someone who didn't get deep into MtG until Bloomburrow, I'm curious if there's ever been this issue to this extent in that game as well? And if there has been, what eventually fixed it, if anything?

[@vitormelo3295]

Keep up the good work, Kibler. Merry Christmas

[@SixDeadMice]

I like how I went on KZbin search and typed on "hearthstone in 2024" and this was uploaded 6 hours ago. Perfect timing thanks, I'll skip coming back to hs for the time being. Hopefully things get better someday for the game.

[@jaxophonee]

take a well deserved break brian! thank you for always keeping it real and giving us legitimately entertaining content! you’re a big reason i’ve stayed playing this game!

[@ObscureJester]

It's a problem quite simple to solve actually: 1) stop printing cards that allow mana cheat. Each thing one does must cost at least 1. No excuses. 2) Stop printing cards that allow discovery outside your class. 3) Whenever you print a card, a mechanic, a synergy that does something, you must print also a card that negates that something. You can't have a game where a player does a thing and the opponent can't respond because the card to respond doesn't exist. 4) If something is not interactive, don't print it.

[@impkiller5932]

So just delete a rogue?

[@noone5974]

All of these would be horrible for the game 1) People find combo decks fun. What makes people quit the game isn't what they go against, it's when they have nothing fun to do themselves. 2) I'm baffled by this take. It seems you are a control player based on number 3, but you think value from other classes isn't fun? Finding cross-class synergies and making cool plays is one of the greatest things about this game. 3) This is insanity. Tech cards are inherently frustrating. Someone is actively lowering their own win rate to ruin your strategy. It might feel good to play, but it's absolutely soul-crushing to go against. 4) "Interactive" is a buzzword people have been using for years. Aggro deck? Uninteractive just go face. Control deck? Uninteractive just clear board. Combo deck? Uninteractive just draw cards and OTK. Then when they print cards to INTERACT with your opponent like Rat, Theo and Mutanus, people lose their minds because their fun strategy was ruined.

[@Asubatsu]

​@@noone5974Combo decks are the least fun deck to play against. Mostly due to lack of ability to interrupt it, like you said. But if it's purely from deck or hand, even with set-up, it's obnoxious and unfun.

[@Lovyxia]

None of these adress core issues. Mana cheat is only broken because card advantage has no tempo cost. Turning cards into mana and mana into cards has been completely imbalanced through power creep, but it was completely fine when the game was newer. Discover and generation effects, if they aren't free, can allow for variety and skill expression. Tech cards are an inelegant band-aid solution to inherently uninteractive issues and #4 doesn't even really mean anything.

[@zyella277]

things can cost 0, its not inherent problem its all how easy/fast and reliable it is. Like thaurisan, primordial glyph or a single giant or prep is way different then say a sorcerers apprentice IF do such rule do it for aura's like echo got

[@kevinphillips4008]

Great video! Your "State of the game" videos are always so insightful. I agree HS has lost the fun and I have not been much lately either. Hopefully next year will be better. Enjoy your well deserved break!

[@marshall5912]

You’re critiques of the game exemplify exactly how I feel as well. My favorite decks have always been Zoo board control type aggro decks. Those kinds of decks don’t really exist anymore. Midrange decks don’t really exist anymore. Removal is so good that it pushes people to just get under their opponent with pure sheer aggression or to get over them with oppressive OTKs.

[@kitten8766]

This video was very needed Brain, way to many zero brainless combo decks all thanks to Blizzard focusing way to hard on skins and not the meta.

[@MrParadux]

Even though I hate mana cheating more, that and combos could easily be ramped down, if card draw and generation wasn't so efficient and abundant. We could still have crazy effects that are strong, but if they are ever-present it becomes like a discount Yu-gi-oh

[@sathrielsatanson666]

​@@MrParaduxyeah, this has been a problem for a while now: powercreep makes some things silly. Like Rogue 1 mana draw 3? Or 1 mana draw 4? And playing card for free is too common: Lynessa Paladin is the strongest deck right now and it's because it gets a free spell after casting one with Lynessa. It's silly.

[@RawDealCo]

🧠

[@TheSCBGeneral]

@@sathrielsatanson666 It's funny; so many headaches could've been averted if they made it so most cards couldn't cost less than (1) mana.

[@kitten8766]

They seriously need to make the coin not a spell that would help some.

[@phduffy]

Love these videos, enjoy your break

[@maxahlse8522]

Started playing hearthstone just before naxx (the first one) dropped. Stopped playing around early 2020. A lot of the thoughts and ideas you share in this video mirrors how i felt at the time. It really sucks when something you enjoyed and played for such a long time just feels like its not for you anymore. And as a paladin main/enjoyer i REALLY feel your words about the game not being about minion interaction/combat anymore. I still enjoy watching your highlights and one off videos here since you where my favorite streamer all those years i was grinding Hearthstone. If you feel that you want to diverge into other games il keep watching you since i really enjoy your positive attitude towards card games in general. Hope the (well deserved) break helps you regain some of your Joy for the game (or makes you move into other games spaces).

[@AnthonyPollos]

I couldn’t agree more, and the way you articulated it here was perfect.

[@RastakhanFromdeOtherSide]

I agree, 100% I hope you take a good rest, after all You're a great man

[@paulandsusanmoore79]

One of my problems is when the timer runs out the turn should be over based on time. Not that I played 20 more cards and it still gets to be played. When the timer runs out, it’s done. Not continue for another 2 30 seconds or more.

[@Stevenk2000]

I understand every word for why this current state isn't cutting it anymore. Ever since last year I started losing the appetite for standard and trying to push ranks. The sad thing is, no meta got better since then. Nowadays I play like 5-6 games a week and that's about it. Battlegrounds is where I'm at rn for the past year or so (I've never played so much BGs since launch tbh, but BGs is fun at least). If there wasn't BGs as an option I would have stopped HS all together. I still have hope that something will and must change soon, because clearly a lot of players stopped playing standard and interest for standard dropped significantly. The reason I'm still holding off hope and not straight ahead saying "I'm Done-Done with this sh*t", is because I play this game since 2014 and it hurts to say goodbye to a game that brought so much joy over the years and now watching it descend this way.. So yeah, I'm not very optimistic but I still hope that something "can" change, even though the power level is out of hand at this point... But who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@KaiteWDrey]

YES! FINALLY! I Totally agree with the introductory statement, Great Dark Beyond IS a great set! it's just not bonkers crazy like every set that came before it. They've been trying to slow things down ever since Whizbang, think of miniaturize for example. you need to spent more mana upfront with a payoff later... but the meta being crazy strong and crazy fast pushed all and any miniaturize monster out except the cheapest you could get or the most powerful you could cheat out. I myself am not a magic player but I'm a yu-gi-oh player and one of the things that pained me the most and culminated in this recent meta is the amount of OTKs being the most prevalent style of deck in the game! If I wanted to play games where everything was decided in one or two turns I wouldn't be playing hearthstone, I would be playing yu-gi-oh! And etherial oracle is basically a yu-gi-oh card how powerful, efficient and cheap it is! A lot of games I've played the past month or so have been decided by my opponent drawing a specific card or not! Individual cards shouldn't be SO strong they win games on their own! Such cards are not healthy for any kind of card game because then the deck building principle of any giving deck becomes: "How fast can I get to this specific card" Which is exactly what we've been seeing happen in the latest meta! I can name 10 different decks where their sole purpose is to see how fast they can deal 30 damage to the opponent's face one way or another and when EVERY! SINGLE! COMPETITIVE DECK is like that then you're no longer playing a card game... you're playing rock, paper scissors with extra steps... Hearthstone evolved to the point it's basically yu-gi-oh's ugly twin. The things that worries me the most as Kibler said at the end is... at first I was hopeful the devs wanted to stir things back like they did with the first patch of the Dark Beyond meta, make board matter once again, greatly reduce the burst from hand and the OTK "flashy turns" in favour of building an actual win condition over the span of several turns but then bob is announce and then the recent patched happened and here we are... the best deck are all either hyper aggro that tries deal exact 30 as fast as possible like weapon rogue or attack DH or otk decks that tries to survive only to deal 30+ damage all in one turn like Lynessa Paladin or discover hunter with biopod. There is not ONE deck on ladder that is even REMOTELY fun to face and basically you're either someone who just needs to win to be happy or a solitaire enjoyer because no way in HELL everyone who plays ladder is actually having any fun when EVERY! SINGLE! GAME! is basically a coin toss to see who kills their opponent the first. And I know People will argue that since I'm playing a tier 3/4 for deck in Control BBU DK my opinion is invalid and I should just shut up and play a good deck but first: do you realise how patronizing does that makes you sound?!?!? and two: no meta has ever been THIS hostile forwards off-meta strategies! Your deck either has a way to otk or you're not valid and competitive enough to survive! What Kinda backwards logic is that where you're not only incentivised but forced into building and OTK and THEN choose the side flavour of deck you wanna be... And to anyone who wanna try the argument: "but powercreep will always happen" I wanna ask... WHAT DO YOU THINK WE HAVE A STANDARD ROTATION FOR THEN HUH?!?!?! It's to prevent one style of gameplay to become the most predominant and oppressive one! NO MATTER WHICH IF ANY DECK STYLE IS THE OBJECTIVE BEST THERE IS A HUGE ISSUE! And I hope! I HOPE! rotation will bring some freshness to the game I've been playing for the last 7 years of my live because is nothing changes this might be the time I actually quit the game for the first time, I cannot take this crap for another 2 months! let alone another year!

[@digitalstatictv]

As an overnighter who hasn't played HS in a long time, still love this channel. Does Kibler have a place for Arena vods?

[@Asubatsu]

I just remembered I have that shirt somewhere.

[@cripzyy9786]

love you man , happy holidays to you

[@williamwhite6502]

I think a large part of it is the fact that the original designers have left the company, and so the people in charge are only creating new things that are too strong in the meta game that they've created, instead of trying to keep things "reasonable" in terms of power level. Because when you look at original Hearthstone, a chillstone yeti, a 4 mana 4/5 was considered a good inclusion in most decks. Now we have cards that summon 9/9 worth of stats with divine shields that can have rush sometimes for 6 mana. It is legitimately just a game of increasing power levels over time, instead of the idea of rotations allowing them to keep things from growing too powerful and creating cards that are powerful yet balanced, they are ramping up power instead of trying to keep things fun.

[@Ulmontor]

thanks for your insights! I quit hearthstone over a year ago (played since the beta) and you mentioned basically all my reasons for doing so! interesting to hear where the game is at currently.

[@TaqeGS]

Do you think an entire reset to lead smth like hs2 will be helpful ?

[@henriquerodrigues7795]

15:00 this so much. I've been saying this to my friends who still play, HS has devolved into rush spam which is basically removal with a body attached, like every minion that's worth playing is implosion, effectively it's the same thing, every turn is an answer to whatever your opponent played + board development, the first person to not respond and develop a board loses

[@Lolepicgamer]

Thanks for this video, I agree in almost all of the points you mentioned and its great to see you are still so passionate about the game, even after all these years. Cant wait until the Hearthstone reddit will tell me again that Kibler has no idea about card games and its just a plot to influence the next few expansions and other design choices...

[@lovenicholson]

Enjoy your holidays brother, and find your peace. I have loved your content for years now. Take the sanity pause you need. Be well.

[@Jackwraith]

I've been saying something similar to this since TITANS. The latter were so powerful that they had to include a lot more removal and that led to control decks not being about smart play and properly using your resources at the appropriate time, but simply wiping the board, over and over. Reno only accelerated that design path and, as you say, they kept pushing creatures toward being spells, in that the only good ones to play were those that had an effect as soon as they hit the board (Battlecry and/or Rush.) It's part of why I quit the game a few months back because, like you, I enjoy midrange creature decks that follow a theme and detest OTKs and combo decks (something I carried over from playing MTG in the 90s.) The only connection I have with HS right now is your videos, since I still enjoy your design perspectives, like this video. Enjoy your break. Hope things improve for you when you return.

[@joshbecker4214]

I left Hearthstone 2 years ago over exactly this problem. Sad to see it's still here. I came back and tried Wild for the first time with this set to see double Libram sets, really enjoying myself. Played to legend in a day.