BMW E36 M3 Timing chain / VANOS installation

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HAN'S GARAGE

HAN'S GARAGE

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 144
@DonBMW
@DonBMW 22 күн бұрын
I’ll say it again!! My man Han is top notch. No other channel provides instructions and inspo lie Han. I completed a clutch w instruction from Han. And now about to dive into valve stem seals. I always have my Bentley Manual and Hans video side by side. Thank you sir. Keep up the great work!!
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 22 күн бұрын
Thank you 🙏
@Montanagreenmachine
@Montanagreenmachine 2 жыл бұрын
Great video but the VANOs spring plate needs flipped around. The outer shoulder should be resting against the 2 mm spacer and the inner should be resting against the 4mm spacer. (This is how mine came apart and backed up by the wear pattern on the parts)
@Maksezzy1
@Maksezzy1 Жыл бұрын
Good call on this comment, I double checked and a few w/ a few others and confirmed outer ring should be sitting against the 2mm spacer.
@Garageaholic
@Garageaholic 5 ай бұрын
Excellent call on this comment. Thank you!
@NyxNick
@NyxNick 6 жыл бұрын
The spring plate after the 2mm spacer on the intake side is placed wrongly. It should be flipped that is the spring dome should face out
@dgenov
@dgenov 6 жыл бұрын
This is somehow not exactly correct. According to repair manual does not matter how to position the spring plate. More precisely the manual says nothing about spring plate orientation and that is why I think that does not matter the orientation. Lets take a look at mechanical point of view: the spring plate is positioned between similar stop disk with same mating surfaces with the spring. In both orientations the spring plate will perform the same job - to pull apart the stop disks. And in both orientations the spring plate holes do not interfere with the 3 sprocket bolts. But it is true that in double vanos system the similar spring plate on exhaust side is specifically marked with the letter F (for FRONT) on the dome face meaning that this is the right orientation to put it in. And perhaps the practice proved that. And a M3NACE video shows also, that dome is facing out when installing spring plate :) Edit: only some manuals do not specify spring plate orientation. According to TIS manual "Install large support diameter facing towards camshaft.", so HAN did it wrong on this video, but the video is still great I'd like to say :)
@realbadtech9318
@realbadtech9318 4 жыл бұрын
@@dgenov If I were going to do this on my own E36 M3, aside from videos on KZbin which manual would you recommend having with me in the garage?
@dgenov
@dgenov 4 жыл бұрын
@@realbadtech9318 /newtis.info/. I strongly recommend this website. It contains almost all official bmw repair manuals and wiring diagrams.
@BLACKHAWKTS
@BLACKHAWKTS 2 жыл бұрын
100% me too I see that
@theochristensen4447
@theochristensen4447 3 жыл бұрын
Best E36 info video ive watched on KZbin hands down 🙏
@LastGamer
@LastGamer 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Han, I'm learning a lot from you
@polish1stdivision
@polish1stdivision 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for this video! Helped me figure out some of the small details that were holding me back from understanding the whole & proper assembly. If it wasn't for this video I would've assembled the intake side without the 2mm spacer... Could've been bad lol
@giovanistinghen4015
@giovanistinghen4015 3 жыл бұрын
friend you helped a lot, it was the most complete video on this subject. Many thanks! 🇧🇷
@M3NACE
@M3NACE 7 жыл бұрын
excellent job my friend. very meticulous. good to see the motor coming along. I do like the tool you used to rotate the upper chain section, very clever. the only thing I would have to say is that the spring diaphragm plate was installed backwards, from what I can see. the center part should be bowed out toward the vanos unit. I am jealous of how clean that Vanos unit is. how did you get it so clean?
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
M3NACE nooooooooo! Are you sure??
@M3NACE
@M3NACE 7 жыл бұрын
from what it looks like. the bow is supposed to go towards the vanos unit. the spring plate looks like this ) when viewed from the side. so it is supposed to go: 2mm plate ) 4mm plate, you have it 2mm plate ( 4mm plate.
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
yea... Im seeing other vids saying that it should be the way you are telling me and also the way i already have.... I'll do more research before I put the engine in the car... Thanks man. And the vanos came like this when I bought it! i got lucky
@M3NACE
@M3NACE 7 жыл бұрын
hmm. interesting. well if thats the way it came and it worked like that, then it works i guess. Ive always known the plate to be bowed out. if it works it works!
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
Alright, I'm going to have to trust you on this one. I'm going to flip it and put it in. And I meant the clean vanos came like that clean when I bought the engine. I honestly dont remember how the diaphragm was sitting lol Thanks man
@paulrodvik541
@paulrodvik541 2 жыл бұрын
Seriously the rest of the guys on KZbin need to take some lighting lessons from you and it was so clear how you said things.
@СерёгаКоновалов-г6н
@СерёгаКоновалов-г6н Жыл бұрын
Единственный нормальный видос по установке, спасибо бро
@MrScottViolette
@MrScottViolette 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks. Watched your video and installed everything step by step with you.
@pjmcgarvey
@pjmcgarvey 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, I'm using it to reinstall my vanos. You have one mistake at 12:10 where you reversed the direction of the thrust/diaphragm spring. It should go the other way with the convex side facing away from the engine. I marked mine this way when I disassembled and other guides from Pelican Parts, Beisan Systems, as well as the BMW online parts catalog that show it's the correct direction. It's possibly it makes no difference, but wanted to let you know.
@AutomaticProductions
@AutomaticProductions 10 ай бұрын
truth, as from what I have seen
@Отличныйотдыхнарыбалке
@Отличныйотдыхнарыбалке 4 жыл бұрын
Красава 👍 я на русском не нашёл видео. Нашёл твоё видео хоть и слова не понял но все понятно снято респект
@videoexcluido
@videoexcluido 3 жыл бұрын
me ajudou muito. foi o melhor vídeo explicando sobre montagem dos comandos. até mesmo sem entender totalmente seu idioma. deu pra compreendo a montagem perfeitamente. principalmente a filmagem da câmera ajudou muito.
@giovanistinghen4015
@giovanistinghen4015 3 жыл бұрын
Sim mano o cara me salvou kk peguemos uma bm p mexer e quando vi aquela pedacera de ruela e encosto e de se apavorar kkkkk
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 3 жыл бұрын
I don't understand lol
@giovanistinghen4015
@giovanistinghen4015 3 жыл бұрын
@@HansGarage Yes bro the guy saved me kk let's get a bmw to move and when I saw that mount of washer and backrest and to be scared kkkkk
@giovanistinghen4015
@giovanistinghen4015 3 жыл бұрын
@@HansGarage thank you so much
@videoexcluido
@videoexcluido 3 жыл бұрын
@@giovanistinghen4015 aqui na oficina, recebemos uma BMW e eu acabei pegando ela desmontada. aí eu fiquei de montar o cabeçote da BMW e vinha algumas dúvidas de como montar. o vídeo acabou me ajudando bastante hehe
@rasitot
@rasitot 5 жыл бұрын
Order seems mixed up. Upper tensioner pin should be removed before tightening the exhaust torx screws.
@يآسينعمر-ك2س
@يآسينعمر-ك2س 3 жыл бұрын
Nice work my friend especially BMW and Mercedes 111
@aros007z
@aros007z 6 жыл бұрын
Great informational video, you are a talented mechanic, keep the videos coming!
@itslawrencedood
@itslawrencedood 5 жыл бұрын
I thought the camshaft holes on the exhaust sprocket had to be biased to the left?
@guillermoespinosa6628
@guillermoespinosa6628 Жыл бұрын
DISCULPEN , PORQUE NO EXISTEN VIDEOS SOBRE LOS ARBOLES DE LEVAS Y SUS POSICIONES EN UN BMW 318 i , Y SI HAY POR FAVOR ENLACE .
@youssefali8002
@youssefali8002 6 жыл бұрын
I have problems with vanos it's always give me misfire but if I unblock the cable of vanos care is working fine please advise.. what's the problem
@bmw4curt
@bmw4curt 5 жыл бұрын
Great video on a complete VANOS rebuild. I will be putting a Dr. Vanos on soon. I won't have to go as deep as you did, right? Will it go on with the chain tensioners still in?
@roakley5682
@roakley5682 4 жыл бұрын
I need help with a 2002 X5 3.0, has 285,639 miles on it...needs timing chain and cats are bad, after running and getting hot it shuts down, when you try to start it again it acts like it has no compression at all...would a bad catalytic converter cause that? You can come to North Carolina and help me, I have A/C in my garage, and a spare bedroom...lol
@azannascar9687
@azannascar9687 2 жыл бұрын
Broooo you really blesssed for this video
@serapkahraman9202
@serapkahraman9202 6 ай бұрын
Merhaba han.Rica etsem S50B32 timing ve vanos videosu eklermisin hiçbir yerde bulamadım.şimdiden teşekkür ederim.
@peted2331
@peted2331 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. Question @ 2.51 the main timing chain sprocket, do the cam holes need in the middle or left of elongated holes? Bentley manual is saying left (page 117-12) Thanks Han.
@Ricqu
@Ricqu 6 жыл бұрын
Hey, just wanted you to know that the ratchet extension messes up the torque values. Always use the shortest possible extension/no extensions if possible. Cheers.
@neb-co2cs
@neb-co2cs 6 жыл бұрын
I believe the torque reading should be the same regardless of extension length. it is the universal joint which makes the torque incorrect.
@als4621
@als4621 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this video.
@-gov
@-gov 6 жыл бұрын
안녕하세요 저는 S54엔진을 갖고 있지만 차분히 설명해 주셔서 많은 도움이 됩니다. 항상 응원하고 있으니 화이팅하세요.
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
Bryan Kim 아 별말씀을.. 제가 제일 같고싶은 엔진을 가지고 계시네요 ㅎㅎㅎ 감사합니다 화이팅!
@90awdtsi1
@90awdtsi1 6 жыл бұрын
for the main timing chain aren't the holes on the sprocket suppose to be aligned to the left not the center?
@thatflywelshguy9662
@thatflywelshguy9662 6 жыл бұрын
90awdtsi1 Yes you’re correct. Many DIY’s show lining up in the center then rotating clockwise afterwards. In the end it does matter how you put it on as long as BOTH sprockets have full movement. That’s the whole point which no DIY ever mentions. If you put 1 bolt in the exhaust side you would see this more clearly. You then move clockwise to the stops to install the vanos. Then as you draw the vanos is you’re supposed to rotate it all the way anti clockwise and not with the tool used in this video. The tool he used didn’t allow the vanos to go on straight, which is why he had issues catching the teeth.
@trayvaxcnc7761
@trayvaxcnc7761 6 жыл бұрын
When you put tension on the primary chain with the "dummy tensioner" it pulls the sprocket so the slots eventually end up being centered on the threaded holes.
@thatflywelshguy9662
@thatflywelshguy9662 6 жыл бұрын
Max B incorrect. You rotate the sprockets manual (with a specific tool). When you put tension on the chain the sprockets are not meant to move because they should already be at the stop on the intake cam.
@trayvaxcnc7761
@trayvaxcnc7761 6 жыл бұрын
@@thatflywelshguy9662 I'm talking for the primary timing chain to the exhaust camshaft sprocket. The bentley manual is somewhat confusing because when you mount that sprocket it says to line up the left of the slots with the mounting holes in the camshaft when the chain has no tension on it. But then you put the dummy tensioner in, where the primary tensioner would go, and by tensioning the primary chain it pulls the sprocket slots back to the center of the mounting holes. I think you are talking about the secondary timing chain and in that case you're correct. I was replying to the original post though regarding the main timing chain.
@christianwilliam-isais3387
@christianwilliam-isais3387 3 жыл бұрын
Super helpful video bro thanks so much🙏
@virgiliomelendez8401
@virgiliomelendez8401 2 жыл бұрын
My wife owns a 1995 bnw m3 This is why i love my twim cam corolla gts 4A-GE
@GaragE36uk
@GaragE36uk 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Han.. Did you have any issues with the vanos after the engine was installed.. I followed your guide today and installed the vanaos intake spring washer as you have in the video.. I see alot of other guides saying it should be installed the opposite way. I have also seen some people say it doesn't matter what way it goes. Just wondering if you had any issues and do I need to remove the vanos and turn the spring plate around..
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 4 жыл бұрын
Actually I did install incorrectly and mentioned it in the description:)
@GaragE36uk
@GaragE36uk 4 жыл бұрын
@@HansGarage ah dam ha ha, wish I had of read the description first.. Ah well I will pop the vanos back off and flip it around.. I was hoping you would say its fine both ways ha ha
@GaragE36uk
@GaragE36uk 4 жыл бұрын
@@HansGarage swapped it round the correct way now.. I am building an m50b30 stroker, your timing guide helped alot. Thanks
@andreasskordalis4062
@andreasskordalis4062 3 жыл бұрын
So I dropped my chain by accident there’s still tension I was doing a headgasket and now the motor is back together. At certaint points when rotating the crank it doesn’t want to turn more and I hear metal contact (I think it’s the chain fell off the bottom sprocket) how would I get it back on
@andreasskordalis4062
@andreasskordalis4062 3 жыл бұрын
Every thing turns fine but the timing slowly gets thrown off tdc and the two can marks aren’t lining up anymore and I notice the main tensioner decompress and the plastic piece slaps the head
@elpapasfritas1754
@elpapasfritas1754 5 жыл бұрын
Me gustó tu video kisiera verlo completo para armar mi bimer
@humana1995
@humana1995 5 жыл бұрын
Very useful and transparent. Thank you for help!
@Martin.H98
@Martin.H98 4 жыл бұрын
Nice video, im not looking forward to do this since i found out my headgasket was blown yesterday 🙁
@miatadrivers8991
@miatadrivers8991 3 жыл бұрын
Do you need and lower tensioner dummy when you do not lose the main chain if your only doinig the upper chain tensioner and upper chain gide and spring diaframe
@zearbell
@zearbell 7 ай бұрын
Would these torque specs be the same for the other e36 engines? Like for the 323i 2.5l
@7beast298
@7beast298 9 ай бұрын
Hey bud at 10:00 you mention the arrows have to be facing up and down but I noticed u did not leave them facing directly up and down. The top arrow is at 11o'clock and the bottom arrow is at 5o'clock.. does that matter? Because they are technically not facing directly up and down. Please let me know if this matters thanks and good video
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 9 ай бұрын
Yes when I said up and down, i didnt mean 12 to 6. The positions you see in the video is correct
@7beast298
@7beast298 9 ай бұрын
@@HansGarage thank you so much 😁
@elkindelacruz7208
@elkindelacruz7208 3 жыл бұрын
On my 1996 e36 m52 When setting up the sprocket on the intake camshaft and I put all the plates on now what’s left is me tightening the 3 10mm bolts to 10nm. Once I do that and I’m gonna install the vamos when I try turning it with the sprocket tool it won’t move until I loosen the 3 bolts till it’s able to move. Any ideas for me on that? Thank you
@midvalleymexicans4167
@midvalleymexicans4167 4 жыл бұрын
Hi, I am new to your channel and I just bought me a 2000 BMW v8 540I . I was wondering if you can help me out and finding a good manual book on these cars. Step by step on the hole motor. I want to do my own maintenance machinic on my beautiful BMW....LOL Thank you.
@Hole_Motorsports
@Hole_Motorsports 4 жыл бұрын
NewTIS.com
@memed9244
@memed9244 5 жыл бұрын
Génial. Et bravo. Très compressif
@milanmakesbeatscapsulecorp945
@milanmakesbeatscapsulecorp945 3 жыл бұрын
The long bolt at 4:15 where can I find a replacement?
@rampagev5668
@rampagev5668 5 жыл бұрын
If i put the vanos with the pin lock in the tensioner is a problem?
@basetpk
@basetpk 5 жыл бұрын
I feel like you secretly own. A fortune model rx7 .
@culpepperrestorations1389
@culpepperrestorations1389 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Han great video just curious which timing chain kit u went with? I'm about to attempt this and need good quality parts
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 3 жыл бұрын
Mine was all oem
@culpepperrestorations1389
@culpepperrestorations1389 3 жыл бұрын
@@HansGarage I hear ya
@DuelistMandroid
@DuelistMandroid 4 жыл бұрын
Are those 4XL gloves?!?!?
@eduki
@eduki 7 жыл бұрын
Excellent job Hans, would be possible any video in a close futrure about the M3 e46 vanos? that would be awesome!
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
eduki e46 m3 is my goal man! Hopefully soon!
@eduki
@eduki 7 жыл бұрын
HAN'S GARAGE thank you! And thanks for all these interesting videos and all the effort you put on them, best tutorials about our beloved BMWs by far
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
eduki thank you for such encouraging words
@АлександрСоколов-э1д7щ
@АлександрСоколов-э1д7щ 4 жыл бұрын
Спасибо я хоть и не понимаю твоего языка но по твоим действием все понил
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 4 жыл бұрын
Добро пожаловать!
@elrolo3711
@elrolo3711 2 жыл бұрын
Where is the intro with the engine overview? Is this a 4 cylinder engine or a 6 ?y
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 2 жыл бұрын
cmon man... are you really asking if e36 M3 has 4 or 6 cylinder engine??
@r-es9kp
@r-es9kp 6 ай бұрын
Very useful bro
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Han so my car overheated today I pull off to cool it down turned out to be my fan that sits on the motor cut my top thin water pipe with its blade so I filled up water drove home and a few hours later try to start the car and no crank so I remove covers and found oil flooding my spark plug well does it mean that my head gasket is blown ?
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
King Ryan oh nooooo, one thing about over heating engine is you dont drive it back home no matter how far... it sounds like your engine is warped and done.... idk if you can save it my friend
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
HAN'S GARAGE which means I have to take it to be machined again the oil and water didn't mix my oil is clean
@thatflywelshguy9662
@thatflywelshguy9662 6 жыл бұрын
Oil in spark plug holes has nothing to do with the head gasket. That’s simply a sign of valve cover failure which is common ($50). If your fan cut your hose then your motor mounts and trans mounts are trashed, allowing the engine to move too much. As for not starting I would assume you head gasket failed or worse. Can’t really diagnose without more information but since this post is 8 months old...hopefully you fixed it by now
@devonyoung9985
@devonyoung9985 Жыл бұрын
Royal process mechanically
@scam_fox666
@scam_fox666 2 жыл бұрын
good job!! this is s50b32 or s50b30? thanks!!
@ErikT595
@ErikT595 Жыл бұрын
None of those S50's
@ropucha1544
@ropucha1544 3 жыл бұрын
Hello HAN IM A FAN. that was a joke lol it rhymes but i wasnt kidding i love you bro epic bro!
@Mr.t7O7
@Mr.t7O7 5 жыл бұрын
I have a problem in oil that does not rise above the engine >>>v6 m45
@seyoch
@seyoch 3 жыл бұрын
are the torque specs the same for M50 engines with single vanos?
@Yoti_
@Yoti_ 6 жыл бұрын
great video man. thanks!
@ahmadabidin4812
@ahmadabidin4812 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks bro 🙏
@maurolemes421
@maurolemes421 5 жыл бұрын
Muito bom seu video mesmo eu nao entendo a sua lingua deu pra entender a explicaçao xou.
@Lexa_BY
@Lexa_BY 3 жыл бұрын
На впускном валу тарельчатую пружину следует устанавливать большим диаметром опорной поверхности в направлении распредвала. А ты её поставил наоборот! Книжки читай)))
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 3 жыл бұрын
Why don't you read my description box?
@zhandcl
@zhandcl 4 ай бұрын
Hello HANS GARAGE. Why did you name your channel 'HAN's GARAGE'? 혹시 한국어를 할 줄 아세요? 저는 한국에서 E46 320i를 갖고 있어요. 당신의 영상을 우연히 만나게 되었고 HAN이라는 단어가 한국에서 익숙해서 댓글을 남겨봅니다.
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 4 ай бұрын
안녕하세요! 네 한국에서 태어나 미국에살고 있지요 이름은 한재일 이라서 그냥 심플하게 명따서 한스 가라지에요 🤣
@zhandcl
@zhandcl 4 ай бұрын
@@HansGarage 답글 남겨주셔서 감사합니다. 미국에서도 항상 건강하시고 늘 행복하시길 바랍니다!
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 4 ай бұрын
@zhandcl 감사해요! 차사진있으시면 보내주세요
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
Hi Han awesome videos bro, I was wondering if you can help me out, my cluster from my e36 is making a buzzing noise and all my gauges isn't working I checked all my fuses the fuses are in working order nothing blew.
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
King Ryan not too familiar with the e36 cluster.... but I do know for e46 when the cluster isn't working you have to get your dme reprogrammed.
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
HAN'S GARAGE thanks buddy hoping someone here can help me out I don't wanna buy a new cluster then its not a cluster issues if you know what I mean ?
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
King Ryan yea but good thing is that used clusters arent that expensive on ebay actually. Given the fact that e36 are old now maybe it is the cluster? What is working and what isnt??
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
HAN'S GARAGE None of the gauges are working only the battery light the abs light and some other light its making a buzzing sound like a bed side snooze alarm, dude I blew a head gasket a few months ago and sold my other car, fixed the bm now recently due to delays and one f up my thermostate 10ml bolt snapped into my head etc, it's most important that I can see my heat/water gauge temperature at all times these cars have a high tendency of overheating due to thermostate failure
@kingryan5849
@kingryan5849 6 жыл бұрын
Good news dude it was the cluster second hand cluster R900 convert it into dollors ? I'm back on the streets burning it up lol
@carlosbirardo7506
@carlosbirardo7506 Жыл бұрын
Thanks, we didt
@deidara1221
@deidara1221 6 жыл бұрын
awesome, do i even need to invest a timing kit? since i have access for a real quality one at work( we sell them, but the are like 300 i can get it for whatever the store pay for lol)
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
vincent chew if you can and dont mind to spend it id get it to make sure and get it done properly
@deidara1221
@deidara1221 6 жыл бұрын
do you have a video on lower timing chain?
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
vincent chew i do not at the moment :(
@deidara1221
@deidara1221 6 жыл бұрын
lol no worries. the video been a great help
@gopiautotech8462
@gopiautotech8462 4 жыл бұрын
1999. E. 39. Timing. Chain. Install
@josenieves6262
@josenieves6262 5 жыл бұрын
Excelente buen video
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 5 жыл бұрын
Gracias mi amor
@reysanchez4256
@reysanchez4256 4 жыл бұрын
Nice
@sachellebabbar9005
@sachellebabbar9005 6 жыл бұрын
3:00 those are "screws"?
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
Yea 10mm screws or nuts just for me to have enough room to tighten the chain
@sachellebabbar9005
@sachellebabbar9005 6 жыл бұрын
Screws and nuts aren't the same thing.
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
sachelle babbar thank you for pointing that out :)
@ZachKramer
@ZachKramer 6 жыл бұрын
can someone please make a video on how to time the lower timing chain? there is not a single one in the internet...
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 6 жыл бұрын
Zach Kramer ill get to it in the spring :)
@hanedanotomotiv9724
@hanedanotomotiv9724 Жыл бұрын
Vanos ayarı olmadı bu motor çalışmamıştır
@VinnyGyoza
@VinnyGyoza 7 жыл бұрын
If this video can get 100 likes, Han will film me do a backflip... And i never done a backflip. Muaaawaahahahaha
@HansGarage
@HansGarage 7 жыл бұрын
oh this will be real good :)
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