BMW's BIGGEST Problem - N20/26 Timing Chain

[@pedrogonzalez9943]

I took care of the chains (engine and oil pump) and guides replacement myself. Only spent under $1,100 in parts and special tools to do it. Had lots of fun doing the work. With 73K miles the original chain and guides were still in very good condition. But, as you said it correctly, the potential for a catastrophic failure was present and I didn’t like that. However, I had lots of fun doing the work. My service advisor also tried to help me with the “whining sound” claim in my last free inspection just before reaching 70K miles of the extended warranty. But, the service manager checked everything was normal and no free chain replacement.

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

Dang you're lucky you have such a great service adviser -- most dealerships push back. I'm disgusted with BMW regarding this issue -- 7 years / 70K is a meager warranty extension and a lot of people have problems after that mileage, of course. BMW failed to properly engineer and test this part and they need to step up and do the right thing -- 70K miles is way too soon for a timing chain to fail -- heck, most timing BELTS would last longer than that!! The other thing is, we don't even know if the revised parts will fix the issue -- it is too soon to tell.

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Couldn’t agree more, most wont fail until beyond the 70k mile warranty. There are many lawsuits for BMW to extend the coverage but I haven’t heard of any extensions yet.

[@TedSchoenling]

It isn't the chain that fails, it is the guide,which then causes slack in the chain, then it can skip teeth and cause issues.

[@Woohchaiell]

@@ThinkOutsideTheCube is there a class action lawsuit that you can point me to?

[@DrRestorations]

Use of plastic guide by BMW is a huge design fraud, and it got worse when coupled with severe over-heating thanks to their bad temperature control!

[@beigemanalishi1645]

One thing: all guides are white when new. They turn orange due to time, heat cycles and of course oil staining. Same with the older N42, 45 and 46.

[@CuanWalker]

How long though would it take to go different from the white? My dealer said he has just replaced it about 3 months back and currently has the car fixing something else. When I asked him last night that the one he replaced was white he said that yes they come white but that when oil goes on them they change color. Being 3 months when I get my car back I can look through the oil cap and it should still show white right? If it is dark orange that means he didnt replace it?

[@wowerman]

4.8k for timing chain replacement?That is a robbery.

[@humanalien337]

Wish i saw this video sooner. Engine in my 2012 528i is toast

[@master-hx7gw]

at how much mileage?

[@XMG3]

You're really lucky to have such good dealer service, my service adviser doesn't even respond to my email or calls :(

[@616civicmt8]

Good informative video, I was going to buy a used 2013 3 series about 3 years ago, glad I opted to buy a new 2016 Honda Civic instead

[@obsoleteprofessor2034]

How embarrasing

[@shahbazi8841]

I have the same bmw..after spending thousands on a car that runs like like a civic..i’d say how smart lol

[@jonteturci9813]

More like smart. 3 series aint special my guy lmao.

[@vaibhavprakash]

Dude - I have owned cars since last 20+ years but yet to come across a service manager as nice as yours! Just buy a lottery ticket as looks like you have that one in a million lucky card!

[@tylertyler965]

Great video, but if you changed your guide to the white one. Does it mean you are free now? Won’t have any timing chain issue anymore?

[@jlong4230]

"I can't image what the larger dealers do, if they give more push back, or if they have a larger staff to accommodate it." I am working with BMW Mountain View right now. More push back. And they can't tell if this is even a problem with my car. Seriously. Tomorrow I decide if they open my engine for 4k only to find nothing wrong with the car. FML

[@kylereno7410]

Did you show them the technical service bulletin? What's your production date

[@KevinMcMullen.]

I am looking into buying one of these for my wife thank you for the informative video I will have to take this repair into consideration when buying.

[@rabbi7933]

Pretty sure the old guides were just discolored.

[@costelariton9864]

All guides are white when New! Check the chain ți be with the New revised Code. After 2014 bmw changed the chain and redesigned. Code 723 at the end. Actually both chaines are New, The timing and The oil pump.

[@TecKnowTech]

Costi Ariton haha that’s what I was saying. They turn orange over time.

[@keithbailie3014]

is it easy to check the codes on the timing and oil pump chains?

[@costelariton9864]

@@keithbailie3014 yes, check my Chanell, i posted there the New codes.

[@fondoo]

my 2015 428i gran coupe f36 n20 has 77K miles and has a white guide but still concerns me.

[@rayraycarter04]

Shut off the auto start stop , that's the main reason they break

[@CookiesUnleashed]

And not changing oil

[@TheFrenchPug]

Really? How does that cause the failure? I've had ours coded off but find that comment interesting.

[@CookiesUnleashed]

Steve Polverini it causes so much unnecessary wear to so many engine components all that build up of pressure from constant startups and shut offs probably also is horrible for your head gasket

[@ernieszelepcsenyi5710]

@@CookiesUnleashed True and there is no concrete data that proves that this will save the world so to speak...

[@201shrimpy]

I coded mine off ASAP and I never had this problem sooo maybe just luck lol

[@cindysosa9643]

This is horrible. Could there be a movement to make BMW recall all these vehicles? I have never and will never own a BMW because all my friends with BMWs always seem to have issues, but I feel for everyone out there. BMW needs to recall these vehicles and do right by all its customers affected! Its outrageous!!

[@powerboatguy2308]

With some manufacturers the timing chain would never have to be replaced. Them charging this kind of price is outrageous and they acting like BMW is some exotic car.

[@DrMcgrath1997]

Great vid on clearing some things up, I just got a 2016 f30 so this helped a lot!

[@joshlee284]

I have an 2016 f30. My chain guide is orange. What color do you have?

[@honestscentz9300]

Mine is orange too 2016 bmw 428xdrive

[@DjuroGazdic]

On n47 chain is on the back and that was 5000€ by bmw because engine nees to be put out, why on earth on n20/26 , where chain is on the front, replacment cost same 4800???

[@enjoylife756]

WTF? Crazy prizes, i have N13 engine at F31 and chain replace cost 2000e and with goodwill it is 1100 euros here in Finland. And the chain is on the back.

[@TecKnowTech]

Because we drop the subframe and oil pan to replace the timing chain and pretty much everything to do with the guides.

[@enjoylife756]

@@TecKnowTech Ok,sorry i had wrong information,the chain is front,not back so thats why it was cheaper

[@user-180-mand90]

​@@TecKnowTech If they solved this, are there any other big worries on the 2015+ X3's?

[@chrism81804]

There is also a sludge issue as well as an injector issue. starter has an issue as well

[@alvaroavendano4121]

The sludge issue is because of the prolonged engine oil service intervals. Do your oil changes every 5k miles with full synthetic oil and you should be ok. Early models with the n20/n26 engines came programmed from the factory with engine oil service indicators for every 15k miles, so don't wait until your BMW tells you that the engine oil is due for service to do an oil change. & I've never heard of n20 starter issues, tell me more about it.

[@hfl_comedyfrl561]

Had my local dealer do the same solid for me on my 2015 428i GC (01/2015 production).

[@alvaroavendano4121]

Food for thought... Don't wait until the oil service indicator on your BMW lights up to do an oil change. Part of the reason why these timing chains are failing is because of the prolonged oil change intervals. 15k miles in between oil changes? Seriously? I don't care how well engineered your preferred brand of engine oil is, no oil is going to last 15k miles inside and engine without breaking down. I had the timing chains replaced on my 328i and I've been changing the oil every 5k miles ever since and no issues thus far. Take it from someone that works for the brand. ;)

[@ashleygaglardi2612]

Mine was serviced as recommended by the dealership for its entire life, and the timing chain clips broke off and destroyed the engine. 67,000ish kms. I'm now waiting for nearly two weeks to hear back from BMW on whether or not they will cover this under goodwill warranty. :( With 2 little kids I don't know what I'll do if they don't cover this.

[@alvaroavendano4121]

@@ashleygaglardi2612 If you live in the US it should be covered under the 7year/70k miles extended warranty by BMW. I hope the dealership took care of this issue for you. If they already have, my advise is not to wait until you get notified by the dealership to get your oil change done, and most certainly don't pay attention to the oil service indicator on your display. Do it every 5,000 miles and find a way to keep track of it. What ultimately kills these timing chains is the prolonged oil services. PS. Don't take to those quick lube chains aka jiffy lube, firestone etc. They use cheap oil and cheap oil filters made in korea and china. The oil filters come apart because they are made out of paper and the rubber o-rings that the oil filter comes with are garbage. They leak within weeks. BMW recommends Castrol full synthetic and either get and original BMW oil filter or one made by MANN which is a German brand.

[@keithbailie3014]

is this issue only with the 4 cylinder (N20/26) engine i.e. the 6 cylinder (M55?) does not have the timing chain guide issue?

[@alvaroavendano4121]

@@keithbailie3014 Right, this timing chain issue only pertains to the n20/n26 engines.

[@ryanfrisby7389]

Howdy, awesome video as always! I’m glad you’re doing well!😸

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Appreciate it Ryan!

[@ryanfrisby7389]

Hey, are you okay, I had noticed that you haven’t uploaded in a while.

[@jnagime]

Was looking at a 2013 6spd M package with 55k......but Ihave to check this out first,Thanks for the video

[@leandromedrano]

Your video has been very very useful for me at this point of time, I'm in the process to buy a used X3 with a N20 engine produce in Oct2015. Your explanation gave me total clarity of the issue and impact. Thanks for that!

[@tylerchamberlain857]

Our neighbors have a 428i Convertible and their engine killed itself at 82,000 miles and BMW wants them to replace the engine out of pocket. Thing is they’ve been complaining to their dealer about engine whining months before their engine exploded. I find it so weird how our friend who has a 2012 335i and does ZERO recommend maintenance (other than oil) has a car that still runs like a dime, but our neighbors who had all their service done on time ended up with an exploded engine and a bill that they have to fit themselves, to say the least they are very very very upset with BMW and they don’t even want to do an engine replacement on the car, they want to sell it as is. Overall I find it disgusting that BMW is disregarding the people who actually maintain their vehicles properly just because they are over the “mileage limit”, our neighbors are so upset that this is their LAST BMW and they’ve made that very clear. Good luck with your car though and I’m glad yours was sorted out before anything bad happened.

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Those are the exact horror stories I've heard from my service advisor. I've heard of rare occasions when BMW has paid fully or partially for the repairs but I would never depend on that. There are a ton of lawsuits against BMW due to the timing chain issues though and your neighbor should definitely try to get involved with them.

[@diegonavyhotmail]

Tyler Chamberlain Do you know if they made a video about how their engine was whining? Or do you know of a video that shows that whining? Thank you!

[@tylerchamberlain857]

Diego Carmona Honestly I have zero idea wether or not they took video of their engine whine. I’ll ask them about it tomorrow morning to see if they do have any videos of it. All I know is they we’re always at the dealership complaining about the whine. I haven’t looked at online to see if anyone has an Videos of it but I’ll check and see if anyone has and I’ll get back to you. That’s as much as I know for now.

[@greendog2529]

@@ThinkOutsideTheCube damn dude. My dream car is 328i f30 ,but i was reading about that fucking timing chain issue. what should i do? I live in Europe

[@gustavocobra77]

@@greendog2529 check the VIN for service with the dealer

[@davidgeorge2666]

better solution, sell it & buy a reliable BMW. Suggest a 2008 328i, mine has 154k on the clock. Before buying these problem-prone models do your homework.

[@ueg-zm8wf]

New always better....get 335i and problem solve

[@marksmith4142]

Wow Garrison! You were fortunate to have that done when you did! I hope Toyota never has that kind of engine troubles! Still loving my 2019 Camry XSE 4 cylinder! I still only have 2300 miles on it. Trouble free so far! Enjoy the rest of your summer! Always with full respect! Mark in Iowa.

[@romesrepublic]

Shit, i wish i knew about this sooner. Just recently took in my car in to have the timing chain guides and valve cover replaced. Set me back a whopping $4300. Luckily, the engine is fine, and the car is currently sitting at 160k. It ran pretty smoothly up until then.

[@Anthony-nx5yu]

Where can I check if a certain BMW has an extended warranty because of an ongoing issue.

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

A dealer can run your VIN and print out any information for you.

[@BeardedRC]

What about 320d? 2014 I couldn’t see that in the list they where i’s

[@marcelmulders1120]

Had this done on my march 2012 328i with only 95.000km (59.000 miles). The engine was making a high pitched, whining noise since a couple of months. And it was getting worse. Had to pay around 1300 euro's (1445 US dollar) to get it fixed. No warranty, no coulance. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm going to try to get at least a part of my money back. NEVER a BMW for me again.

[@admonix2]

Did it break or did you replace it before

[@marcelmulders1120]

@@admonix2 I replaced it before. If it had broke I would have to pay 6K or more for a replacement engine.

[@TedSchoenling]

Wait, I'm going to take advise from somebody who gets their oil changed about what will or won't happen? I've researched the problem,from what I can tell new guides were installed late 2013 early 2014 from the factory...

[@ahmedali217]

The guides were never replaced or at least never had the part number updated. However, the chain and chain tensioners have. I rebuild N20's and have researched this heavily

[@thatpersiandude7386]

Ahmed Ali hey man im looking to get a 328i f30 what year should i go for?

[@8442116]

@@ahmedali217 The N20 engine on my x1 stalled couple of days ago on the highway out of nowhere...the engine cranks now but it won't fire up! What are the chances that replacing the timing chain would resolve the issue as I'm 90% sure it's the timing chain guides...or would you suggest doing an engine swap?

[@mckylecfc]

@@8442116 what year was yours and any updates would be appreciated.

[@8442116]

@@mckylecfc I replaced the timing chain guide assembly and it's working fine with no issues. Vehiclemodel: x1 2012 xdrive N20 engine

[@gerardodavid5221]

How about the 2016 528i 4 cylinder turbocharged

[@wessimpson2544]

Yikes, I just purchased a CPO 2017 X1 N20. Is mine effective? I still have warranty for 3 years or 75K I'm now at 50K.

[@psycholarge]

You’re fine

[@MarcoGonzalez-bi6cg]

I think 2016 and up you are okay

[@tonys9413]

Is this exclusively mileage issue or time as well? I have a 2014 X1 n20 with only 20K miles. Since there is 7 year warranty on the timing chain guide, I’m thinking of waiting until end of 2020 to bring it up with the dealer.

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Mainly mileage but keep in mind the 7 years begins from the in-service date (when it was purchased). My 2014 3 Series was purchased in July 2013 so that's when the 7-year coverage started

[@tonys9413]

ThinkOutsideTheCube Mine was purchased Feb 2014. Since there is no guarantee BMW fixed the problem with the new design , I’ll decide in late 2020 depending if I want to keep car long term.

[@reliablesignage6007]

fewwwwww... my 328 was built in 09/2015.. but it has the orange guide.

[@JumboJimbo100]

the guide is a light color when installed and the oil stains all guides to orange/brown

[@MarcoGonzalez-bi6cg]

How is it running so far

[@geraldarcuri9307]

The cost of complete timing chain replacement in California, 2024: dealer = $6,500; independent = $5,200. So, essentially, your BMW dealer service advisor lied to BMW on your behalf. I have a 9-year old, well-maintained 328i with 49,000 miles. No timing chain replacement help from BMW.

[@mo.q380]

Can you UPLOAD MORE PLEASE I really like your vids

[@howardnourmand6507]

I am dumbfounded by how poorly this has been handled by BMW. Clearly they have not taken responsibility and have worked hard to deter having to compensate their customers. I qualify and have been dealing with trying to get reimbursed for over 6 months. I have followed all the directions to a T. In addition when I called to ask if there was a recall they simply said no and conveniently failed to mention that there was a class action settlement. I had to research and find it on my own. Everyone in my family drives BMW and I have personally owned 4. I will never buy another one because of this experience. I have spent nearly 20k on a repair that was due to a faulty factor part. Totally Ridiculous. #BMW #BMWTimingChainModuleSettlement #dontbuybmw #bmwofnorthamerica

[@nadrojcs]

Hey, I didn't see that the 2015 bmw 328i xdrives n26 engine was not listed as one of affected vehicles but sources elsewhere say that it is affected. I am a bit curious what my plan of action should be. Should I only be concerned if the whine appears?

[@anl5370]

Does this warrant only in USA or surrendering the world

[@user-180-mand90]

So on the 2015+ 4cylinders, what exactly has changed? Its still plastic, instead of lets say 70K-100K, is it still only going to last until 130-150K? Unless they redesigned the entire timing system of the engine, its still going to cost people loads of money (20hrs labor is crazy) to be replacing timing components once the vehicles start to age, whereas in like a Lexus you don't have to worry about major components.

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

I'd love to look into my crystal ball and tell ya but I'm not sure buddy. I can tell you that driving a BMW is much different than a Lexus though and if you need japanese reliability the Lexus dealer is just up the road...

[@MarcoGonzalez-bi6cg]

@@ThinkOutsideTheCubeso if you buy a 2016 320i you won’t have these issues ? Becuase I am looking to buy a bmw

[@anthonypipia6990]

What if you have mods on the car that don’t affect the timing chain?

[@MarcoGonzalez-bi6cg]

So if you buy a 2016 320i you will be okay ?

[@latorajones4757]

Where are you located and the dealer? Northern, VA estimating 7K for this type of repair. Complete scandal!

[@krassavcik9682]

Hello. I have 428i gran 2015 october.I have reached 102k miles.When should i change chain? thanks for information

[@kdsesc]

did you omit saying 2013 because they are not affected by it?

[@Player-uq9et]

The problem most people drive their BMW harder than other car.

[@smoothlarryhughes]

Should I be concerned with this for a 2016 BMW 320i XDRIVE with the N20 engine?

[@robfolks]

No

[@csuren]

Bmw Australia refuses to acknowledge this issue. So disappointing.

[@maoboyz]

Hi, is this only an American market issue (South African production) or do we face the same problem in Europe (German production) Thanks

[@tsskage]

maoboyz the same we have there

[@maoboyz]

Tomek Szostak thanks, Did bmw officially communicate on this?

[@thatyounginwalt3374]

I have a 2013 328i jump timing, I want to know if this can cause valves to bend or break?

[@canalfixe]

Hi, 2015 models still have this problem? I’m searching a F30, which year is the most reliable?

[@Fradiger27]

Yo.bro what about the 5 series f10 they also have the n20 engine do they have same issue please react ?????????????

[@thomaskan2852]

K yes they do.

[@ahsanm.5905]

Wasn’t that the issue related with N47 engines?? 🤔🙄

[@Woohchaiell]

SO are you saying we should personally pay for this to be done before $70k miles?

[@s.athelli9743]

Should be a class action law suit. Our BNW X3 engine the timing chain broke and there are other issues, we are stuck with a car that doesn't work and owe $17,000 on it. Horrible situation

[@thehairslangaz]

Same here. Owe nearly $16k

[@greenman7612]

There is a class action lawsuit. First one extended warranty to 70,000 miles and 7 years. Currently owners are trying to get it extended to 150,000.

[@TheMrPasul]

What only the xdrive or all

[@kurtmuroki8763]

The fix is change the oil every 3000 miles.

[@nihonkokusai]

every 6000 is enough

[@keithbailie3014]

@@nihonkokusai what am I missing -- how does changing the oil more often avoid the plastic guides from breaking?

[@ericlaw2511]

I had mine done, but my warranty was till 112,000KM .

[@tonym7434]

That's 70,000 miles

[@chrishi1997]

Is the 2013 328xi affected by this?

[@CleanYoCah]

for sure

[@dillonh321]

So if Im going to go look at a used 328i with N20 and if it has white guides it has already been fixed?

[@master-hx7gw]

the white color of the guides goes orange during certain amount of time

[@toddcron4870]

How much did the Timing Chain replacement cost??

[@juancarlosbaltodano2273]

Around 8k

[@annebodee]

It's costing us $5500 parts and labor. At least I figure I'll never have to deal with it again. Our vehicle (2013 X3 series) isn't listed, but should be. Car only has 63,000 miles. I'm glad we caught it before the engine cratered.

[@ElevatorAdventure1816]

Have you ever been on a cruise ship I have been on the Disney Magic

[@thecarexpert21]

awe man :( can u get the old chain guides put back in? A grenading engine would make for some great content....

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Refer to the Commander for that! I'd be driving this till blowup if I had a longer warranty but with around 63k and expiration at 70k, I was getting too close for comfort.

[@lilimac3906]

How long was it in shop for timing?

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

One day

[@lilimac3906]

@@ThinkOutsideTheCube really no way? How much did fee come to if you didn’t have warranty

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

@@lilimac3906 would’ve been $4,500

[@davidbarlow7955]

i have 9/15 production and it has the ORANGE GUIDE

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

I wouldn’t worry. I’ve since been told all guides are originally white but overtime the oil stains them an orange tint.

[@madbean2563]

Hello, I am from Germany and own a 328i 2013 F32 non-xdrive , what about me

[@madbean2563]

@RacingD12 i have orange

[@dillonh321]

@RacingD12 So if Im going to go look at a used 328i with N20 and if it has white guides it has already been fixed?

[@on-site4094]

RacingD1. How to make bmw reliable 2jz

[@dinotherealestateman7923]

Too late for my 2010 x3 as the timing chain just blew and ruined engine with only about 80,000 miles. Do I have any recourse? I had to have my mechanic install a used engine with less miles. Spend over $5K doing this. HELP

[@alvaroavendano4121]

Wow that sucks. As of now, it's still 7 years/70k miles coverage. One thing you can do to prevent this from happening in the future is to do frequent oil changes. Don't wait until the oil service indicator lights up on your iDrive screen to do an oil change.

[@-ZEMOSGATE-]

I have 2015 320i how do i know if I'm ok or not?

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

A dealer can check your VIN

[@cruzsoto4042]

Why would u buy a bmw to begin with

[@johnnydangandco]

#IceTrayThe Gang

[@mikesanto69]

SO 2016 MODELS ARE NOT AFFECTED? HOW MUCH WORK DOES IT TAKE TO PEEK INTO THE ENGINE TO SEE IF YOU HAVE THE GOOD WHITE GUIDES OR THE SHITTY ORANGE GUIDES??

[@TheDarkForce187]

JUST OPEN THE OIL CAP AND LOOK IN

[@The_KING24]

Are the 2016s really not affected dude?? If so I might pull the plug on a 2016 428i m sport 🤪

[@ChromeN9ne]

you have nothing to worry about

[@sebastiantevel898]

Those guys with Lexus and Civics making fun of this, what are you talking about... you get catastrophic brain damage any time you have to look at your car, never mind having to live inside it for few hours a week.

[@MidwestDIY]

I am looking to add 2013 BMW with N20, but seems if BMW has just a lot of big problems, we have currently Toyota 4Runner V8 with 320k miles and Acura MDX 230k miles , everything on Toyota is still original parts except alternator ($150 cost) and Acura gas cap ($15). I am scared looking at BMW operating cost, family member spent 12k last year to keep running a 2015 BMW X5 with only 50k miles ( new transmission and differential), the main reason I am looking at BMW is they cost 3 times less than same year Toyota or Honda, but cost 10k more that Toyota, Acura when it all were new, BMW depreciate like crazy

[@alexanderrosales7675]

My Toyota has timing gears i never have to open the hood to "look at it".

[@YousefHamdan08]

I have 328i 2014 my engien sounds like diesel is that normal? Please advice me

[@davidjacobs8558]

some people suggest rev the engine at 4000rmp for 2 minutes while in Neutral. that reduces the engine noise quite a bit. do it once every couple month.

[@coltonlear2869]

COMMANDER UPDATE! Lol

[@ThinkOutsideTheCube]

Commander is back at home! I am out of the country until August. I didn't have the opportunity to film before leaving.

[@kennethg.arnado1481]

What's your IG

[@gogach8085]

Get to the point

[@marianoramirez5742]

Hey please help but question, if my bmw vin doesn’t show a recall does that mean I’m good? I do have a bmw 2014 320i.