Food Chain Magnate; A Response to Tom Vasel of the Dice Tower

[@LiiChinHo]

Wow thanks! I semi-blindly bought this for Christmas knowing it was a heavy, strategic game with poor components for its price point, but seeing Tom's review and rahdo had me consider returning it. I like the way you share/present your thoughts and arguments in a clear and respectful manner. I think I have a couple of the right friends to have a crack at this game.

[@BoardGameCo]

Awesome! It's tight and tense but worth it if that's your thing!

[@chrisseibert7810]

Great point about viewing wins as binary in this game. I had never thought about that but you're exactly right. It could have been very close until one little thing on the last turn and it would be a huge swing in terms of money. A lot of players will be inspired to try again, but your mindset shift could help more people fall into that category. Great video!

[@WolandSilent]

after few minutes of the video I've looked at the date thinking it was from 2018. You grew as a content creator quickly.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thank you :)

[@billtodd2194]

Just came from commenting on Vassal's review that you can't look at ending cash like a euro score and youtube recommended me this vid. I agree on near all your points. I'm a little mixed on the training game though. 100% for sure call it early if it's already decided, but I worry you won't really see enough if you call it after 30 min or play with no milestones. Plenty of strats don't sell any food until round 5-6, you might not get there in 30 min, especially not to the point of fighting over a house and realizing what needs to be considered. This isn't a game that's rule heavy like TI where I want to ensure people have the rules internalized by playing 1 demo round, FCM rules (except dinnertime) tend to be easily grasped, it's the interaction implications that are crucial.

[@billtodd2194]

I also like the idea of thinking of it more as a wargame (and especially not as a scoring euro). It's rich get richer the same way that conquering territory in wargames both moves you closer to victory as well as giving more troop production to make victory even more likely. The point is to allow a clear leader to bring the game to a rapid close, not drag on and on. And that's not to say you can't flip it on the leader and turn it around, but if you can't then at least it's over faster.

[@allankamen9875]

Played Food Chain Magnate a few days ago for the first time. It was excellent. I almost won but lost on the last round due to an aggressive discount from the eventually game winner. Great game, will try it again and hopefully we can get the Ketchup expansion to add more to this game. It's a very good business game and I like the theme. Components are a bit drab but they are more than functional for the game and I have no problem with them. Your review is very good. I need to see Tom's review again for this. I'll definitely play this anytime but I still prefer Inis (totally different game) if I want to teach something new and play without getting exhausted.

[@BoardGameCo]

Inis is incredible, you'll find no fault from me there on your preference.

[@cklester]

I wish I could LOVE a video instead of just LIKE it. FCM is one of my 10/10 games. It's brilliant, even if I'm not very good at it... :-D BTW! You can play this online!

[@BoardGameCo]

I saw :) But I prefer not to play online or aps, on games I play with people...otherwise our learning ends up being at different speeds.

[@cklester]

@@BoardGameCo Ah, OK! I was suggesting you could increase your number of plays and git gud without having to wait on IRL players, but not if you all want to git gud together! :-)

[@nickspeelman9174]

I'm a big fan of this game. Having said that, I think the fact that a clear winner pretty quickly emerges in the final third of the game is a real problem when a game can last five hours. Having to sit and watch someone run away with a victory for ninety minutes can make those ninety minutes feel excruciatingly long.

[@BoardGameCo]

I totally hear that and agree. At the same time, I would say for our games, that clear leader has usually only been a problem for 30 to 40 minutes. Still an issue... But if it were 90 I would have more of a problem with it.

[@nickspeelman9174]

@@BoardGameCo That's fair. And probably more accurate. But 40 minutes can still feel like ages when someone's running away it. It's still not enough to cancel out all the incredible stuff about this game. But I do think it's a flaw.

[@mariusdafunk]

"If you can't lose a game on the first turn, why I would I want to play it?" I am a big fan of this game, even up to the point that I would say it's my favorite game. I've always played it in a beginner friendly environment having people get used to the game while also engaging them in finding out about the many intricacies of this gem. I don't even play that game to win, most of the time I really just enjoy the mechanisms of the game and I chuckle at my own faulty planning . Agreed, I would never want to play this game in a "professional" gaming environment but then again, I wouldn't want to play any of my games with a cut-throat , overly competitive and resentful crowd. I would strongly suggest to exclude some of the milestones and replace some others by the ones from the expansion and to develop some "house-rules" with your group of players.

[@BoardGameCo]

I haven't yet played the expansion but looking forward to it!

[@ShadyNetworker]

The "poor quality" of the board is INTENTIONAL. When I first got the game i had the same idea but after playing my first game, I was glad that the board was so minimalist. The reason being that the board will become cluttered FAST and you need to be able to parse the data quickly. Just for context.

[@BoardGameCo]

Oh for sure, nonetheless... It's still a premium price without premium artwork.

[@jonaskoelker]

It has premium game design, though. I mean, I get it: I want my games to look nice as much as the next person. I also want to be able to play with my colorblind friends, and I don't want the decorative aspects to get in the way of me understanding the game state. And I strongly prefer a good chess set to an okay one. But what I want in a game is first and foremost a good game system [by which I mean the protocol between players as defined by the rules; the pattern of allowed and disallowed interactions, independently of how this abstract protocol is embodied by components]. What I don't get is people expecting a particular level of component niceness as a function of price. I expect there to be some connection, on average, in the typical case, sure, but... I guess I'll never understand the people who feel _cheated_ when the game scores 10/10 on interesting decisions per rules complexity, 10/10 on a compelling setting/theme/narrative, 10/10 on component utility and 4/10 on component aesthetics. Oh well, other people are not all like me. Fortunately, in most cases :-)

[@robertbentley3734]

An argument now ruined by the hyper expensive deluxe version brought out this year

[@marksteelman7747]

One thing I love about Tom’s videos is that he’s succinct with his opinions.

[@BoardGameCo]

Tom is great :)

[@jackwilderman-nielsen2862]

I actually love the basic bad components I think it is worth the price but that is my opinion.

[@fsecco]

Bummed there is no link to the original video in the description...

[@BoardGameCo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZ7Kd2mBecqIraM&feature=emb_title

[@LiiChinHo]

Oh secondly, have you tried the ketchup mechanism and would you recommend it? Or share your thoughts on it?

[@BoardGameCo]

Not yet, I'm looking forward to it but haven't given it a shot yet.

[@gregmattson2238]

yeah I tend to think of Tom's reviews as sort of a reverse barometer. It isn't perfect, but if he is enthusiastic about a game, i mostly find it simple and unfulfilling. If he finds a game too difficult or otherwise hard to get into, the better I find it. Perfect case in point is sherlock holmes consulting detective. He *hates* that game, mostly because he finds that it makes himself feel 'stupid', wheras he likes 'Chronicles in Crime'. Well, I feel exactly the opposite way. I *love* sherlock holmes consulting detective *because* it makes me feel stupid, ie: it respects my intelligence and makes me really work hard for a victory. Wheras I feel that Chronicles in crime is just spoon feeding me and treating me like a child. I just bought food chain magnate and am hoping that this scratches the challenging, if you win you really appreciate it because you've worked so hard feeling. And personally I don't *mind* feeling awful for 90 minutes if I lose. It just makes me all the more motivated to try again.

[@nydaloth]

FCM core + expansion is 250$ in most places. I have heard that this have to due with bad manufacturing and shipping policies from splotter. People even have called FCM a luxury items! Come on man luxury items are of great component quality. I’m not saying that the game is bad it just too expensive.

[@BoardGameCo]

Oh I don't disagree... But luxury products do not have to look like luxury products... they just have to have a price point that people are willing to pay.

[@nydaloth]

@@BoardGameCo Yeah thats true, but I personally don’t like to pay more for a product that is just too expensive for what it’s being offer. It’s a matter of principle. But I totally understand people buying FCM because they love the gameplay so much that they are willing to pay the unjustified price tag. I have overpaid for objects that I just desire even though I know that the price is not right. You feel good because you got it and love it, but at the same time you say to yourself that you spend too much. I paid 277+20 shipping for Dungeon Degenerates from Goblinko. I understand Tom’s reviews and I totally understand your response too.

[@alexconti7932]

The game sounds amazing to my taste, really want to try it in the near future. Intro game topic: yes; cmn, it's medium-heavy euro. I did several dummy rounds while teaching Bluff, just to be extra sure everyone has the same level going into the game. Thanks.

[@BoardGameCo]

It's sooooo good :)

[@tttopolis]

I really enjoyed the 3 times i played it! Of i had a group to go heavy with more frequently id have a copy!!

[@brdgamz]

Tom didn't like the race to nab abilities. It's what the game is about. You're custom building your faction. It's more interesting to define your own boundaries than to have to work within the boundaries of the faction you're handed.

[@BoardGameCo]

100% agreed. Love it.

[@benjaminnadeau7305]

I see Age of Discovery I upvote.

[@BoardGameCo]

Good choice :)

[@ericglimme3362]

With reference to the CFO, Tom was talking about the free CFO you get with the first to $100 milestone. I feel it is necessary to keep rush strategies viable. It can look imbalanced if the person who gets it didn't have to make sacrifices to race for it though. I agree with your point about the aesthetics, they are not to my taste either but I certainly got my money's worth out of this game. Making every decision critically important is nearly unheard of in this hobby. It makes it so fulfilling when you play well, even if you don't win. Nice video!

[@BoardGameCo]

I realized that as I was talking (you can kind of see me stumble there) but I think the point is still the same...getting 50% more money is useless if your opponents are cutting your legs out from under you while you worked to get it. I'm glad you're enjoying the game!

[@diamondmeeple]

You are the guy who sells used games at the website? :-)

[@BoardGameCo]

Yes :)

[@RandomPerson-nd2ey]

All the flaws you pointed out with this... wow, I'm so out. I can't help but wonder if all of the love for this game is people trying to justify why they spent so much on it (I also think that about Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition, the Arkham Horror Card Game, and Kingdom Death Monster. No offense to those who love them but those are expensive games to get into without gameplay that appeals to me or those in my gaming group. I can visualize spending that much on it, my group hating it, and it not being touched again.) Lack of theme, minimal components (yes, I understand it's just 2 people doing small print runs. They should realize that there's a demand for the product and do larger print runs which would lower the price. I can't justify the cost when compared to either of the Brass games, GWT, etc), realizing I was doomed to lose from one of the first few turns in a game that lasts this long... no, etc, etc, etc. I would like to try it sometime but I just can't see buying it myself.

[@BoardGameCo]

There are many games in the top 100 that I straight up would never play again....and yet I wouldn't accuse others of magically justifying those...that's a whole lot of group think. Maybe I just don't see what they see.

[@cparks1000000]

Hmm. I enjoyed Great Western Trail from the first play. Not a critique.

[@BoardGameCo]

Great Western Trail is sadly one I got rid of myself eventually.

[@All_Ice117]

@@BoardGameCo What!? I definitely can't trust your judgment! How sacrilegious! D=. Didn't like Food Chain Magnate by the way 😅.

[@lotusmoon2744]

@@All_Ice117 you didn't like food chain magnate!? Sacrilegious!! Blasphemy! Haha I'm kidding of course but GWT is also an amazing game. both of you are sacrilegious! Lmao

[@michaelmaultsby895]

I don’t know. I would call the first hire of Recruiting Girl or Trainer. Any other first hire will slow your business down too much. Recruiting Girl is my favorite first hire.

[@nykandrusiakmusic]

General inquiry, is there a reason you have SO MANY ads interrupting your video? I understand not paying for the premium gets ads and I really enjoy and appreciate your content, but the interruptions seemingly every two minutes feels really excessive.

[@BoardGameCo]

Great question, I usually aim for 1 ad per every 2 minutes but on earlier videos I didn't know how to customize that and so KZbin did what KZbin wanted to do. I just fixed this one :)

[@anab0lic]

Your videos were a lot easier to follow when you talked at this pace, seems like you try to convey too much too quickly in your current videos.

[@martinbesaliel423]

only two things that make me don't want to own this game: 1. the board theme looks bland 2. the price is too high for that kind of game

[@BoardGameCo]

I agree on both counts... And it's still amazing and worth it :-)

[@bardpondo]

Whos Tom Vassel?

[@BoardGameCo]

One of the most famous board game reviewers :)

[@ThatJakers]

Three minutes in you’re still apologizing for having an opinion and promising me you’re not attacking the Dice Tower (feels like 3 times now). I hope the video starts soon.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, this was one of my earliest videos, I often rambled a lot more in my first videos. Not to say I don't ramble now...just less ;)

[@dsweet5273]

Oh no...not a whole 3 minutes!!!