The Age of Atlantis - Should You Back It?

[@Quackalope]

Quack . . . your content is so good. You look at things like an investment and that side of the conversation is fascinating!

[@jameslee7161]

Agreed

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks :) Now I just have to hope I'm right. In the past I generally have been but covering this as a channel means I've been covering things I usually wouldn't have even looked at.

[@StrangerrDanger]

I want to thank you for making these videos. This video in particular made me back up this game on KS. From the pledges and feedback the company has with the community, it seems this potentially may be a success. Thanks again!

[@BoardGameCo]

Anytime! Glad you're enjoying.

[@joelim2241]

Pre-ordered this via my Local FLGS in Malaysia almost a week ago and I am surprised at how cheap it is considering the quality, number and size of miniatures that they are offering. Definitely helped boosting my confidence level in this after watching your analysis. +1 on the 'they should take their time' part in listening and improving the game according to the backers' and play testers feedback. Hope that they make this a good one and really looking forward to it!

[@yrusomad6]

overall there isn't that many components, 13 minis, fair amount of wood (no cards) and a board.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, overall feedback seems to indicate this can be great, but there are enough minor complaints that they need to playtest the heck out of it.

[@giustinacasale4914]

Finally! I have been waiting for you video before making up my mind whether to back this or not. I loved Rahdo's video but was waiting for yours to cement my decision. I am backing it!

[@BoardGameCo]

Excellent, good to hear :)

[@successfulgeek]

I'm so excited to play the physical game of this. I have been helping playtest AoA for months and really enjoy.

[@BoardGameCo]

That's great to hear :) I know there's been feedback, but the more the better.

[@successfulgeek]

@@BoardGameCo for sure. The balance is very much a work in progress but Root is the same way. The core of the game is really fun though.

[@benjaminsessler2677]

What aspects of the game do you most enjoy? I'm kind of on the fence about this one, but mostly because its been an expensive few months on Kickstarter.

[@Quackalope]

@@benjaminsessler2677 The worker placement and map development is amazing . . . the balance needs to be adjusted wit playtesting for sure. However, the core idea is really great.

[@thomasvanh9578]

Can you give an opinion on how complex you would say it is? Like th bgg system 1 to 5?

[@richardhobbs362]

Great video. I am also backing this game. Really looking forward to it.

[@FCL70]

I've managed two TTS playthroughs - both 3p. I found the rulebook to be solid even given it's brevity. There were the odd detailed issues we tried to find and had to simply infer (for example, can a worker be placed on or move through another player's *un*manned Myth?), but I've encountered those in a number of games where a BGG query is required. I'd note that the Houses may be slightly unbalanced (green/Capitol & yellow/Tavern clans seem to have an advantage), but I'd want a couple more playthroughs and some 4p games to verify. The Myths however are very unbalanced. One (Pegasus) is woefully UP, while another (Cerberus) only a bit so. Either that or the Centaur & Minotaur are OP - but either way, unbalanced. The other issue I'd note is that while the game suggests 4 potential strategies, the winners in our games pursued the 'resource' strategy (push the green and blue tracks early) and won easily - one without ever using their asymmetric house power. This doesn't make it a bad game, but I'd compare it to Puerto Rico, which while a good game, has very samey feel to early strategy. Here so in AoA, if I play again, my early strategy will definitely be resource focused until such time as I find it doesn't always work (which will surprise me). That said, I find the theme very engaging and the worker mechanism very good. It will put you to some tough decisions at times which I find to be the mark of a good game. I really want to find this game worthy of the investment, but sadly in its current state I feel it'll get played 2-3 times and then collect dust.

[@yrusomad6]

Bingo!

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks! That's helpful.

[@gameopoly2067]

Thanks! I'm worried about balance issues and overall replayability. The game looks cool but i don't like that El Dorado Games is more concerned about component upgrade stretch goals rather than gameplay stretch goals. Either way we still have some 20+ days to see what the game will end up looking like.

[@markoxford]

Just pledged after I realized what this was- it is a much better Tapestry!! The tech trees are far superior with ever better, ever increasing rewards and the resource management works with a big initial load and easy pick up of resources as needed. Combat actually makes thematic sense - it's easy, but forces players to work to a common good. Overall game flow is well designed and the iconography and board details are very clean. A coherent looking experience- easy to teach, 4 page rule book!, great depth and multiple paths to victory.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yes, I've seen that comparison and hoping for the same myself!

[@Cardsrock65]

I just discovered Paula because of your KZbinr video, and I LOVE her! She's so funny. Adore her with Chaz and Rodney

[@BoardGameCo]

She's really excellent :)

[@willyum3108]

Timing is everything. I backed the 2nd El Dorado kickstarter. A guy in my game group had the 1st. It looked pretty, but he said it was meh. As soon as my copy delivered, I flipped it for +40.

[@BoardGameCo]

100%. Timing is key when getting and selling KS's.

[@richarddurrer9617]

I played it on TTS, and really enjoyed it. It's got a lot of moving parts, but they are able to seen and assimilated quickly. I didn't struggle to figure out where everyone stood like in Terraforming Mars or Scythe. I was ready to drop the KS if I didn't enjoy the play, but yup staying in and getting it.

[@BoardGameCo]

Awesome! Glad to hear :)

[@bryanwinston8820]

I'm sure an unboxing is coming on this in the next couple of weeks. Only a couple of plays in but I think they hit it out of the park on this one. Fantastic looking, excellent storage, complexity of choice abounds without rules complexity. This is, in my opinion between 4 and 5 on the BGC scale. Also, Quak-a-lop-a???? Is that the French Canadian in you sneaking out? Oh and I don't know if it will hold it's value. But I'm certain it sticks around in my collection.

[@BoardGameCo]

Lol yep, when I first found Quackalope, I did the ay at the end.

[@caseyclark2265]

I had the same thoughts as you going into this one. I initially didn’t back but o think this video has helped cement the decision for me to back. Thanks!

[@BoardGameCo]

Glad to hear!

[@guitarplayr8]

I jumped on Island of El Dorado with Thieves expansion when it hit kickstarter. It was my first Kickstarter backing. It's a gorgeous production overall, but the gameplay is definitely very light and the battles are much like Risk's dice chucking and see who wins. To win Island of El Dorado, a player must add a token to each of the 3 hidden shrines on the island and then find the hidden chalice in a cave. You can spend a long time in that cave looking for the chalice, only to have it taken away the next turn and that person immediately wins. I've only played it twice, but that was enough for me to know it wasn't a good fit. I've held on to it for months just because it was my first backing on Kickstarter and it's pretty. All that being said, I am really intrigued by this new Age of Atlantis. I definitely had to get my mind out of that "this is the Island of El Dorado team" and just look at the game on its own. Not sure if i'll back it just yet, but I'm really interested to see what the game will look like in the end.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, most indications of El Dorado seem to have complaints along those lines.

[@CheddahSlammer]

Reminds me of the advanced rules in Civilization, I will most likely pass this time, but you got me more interested to actually look at it, that I might back it on their secound kick starter.

[@BoardGameCo]

Good enough :)

[@DK-xw2te]

I was really thinking on passing on this, but your review made me really interested. I think the only thing that is holding me back is the question about the balance across the factions. It can really be very hard to balance given the unique asymmetric power. Even for Ankh, whereby the asymmetrical powers are imo less than in Age of Atlantis, I was concerned. What is ur opinion on the balance of the factions? Alot of ppl seem to be discussing this on the KS comments

[@BoardGameCo]

That balance will for sure be the biggest concern. I'm willing to take the risk but that's my one hesitancy.

[@willyweed1]

I was interested and cautious, and yes you put me over the edge and I just backed it. I’m a lot like you. I’ll research and research again. I’ll picture myself playing it, and who I would play with and I was leaning towards backing but I just spent a fortune on nemesis and aeon trespass odyssey this past week... but I can tell this game has great potential I just needed another like minded person to validate my own thoughts. Damn you!! Haha I’m going to pledge.... for now

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep...very hopeful. Overall the biggest question at this point seems to be balance.

[@wbeytel]

Hi Alex, I am backing it. The price point is good and it seems to be a game that both I and my regular group would enjoy. Your video just reinforced my decision to back it 👍

[@BoardGameCo]

Nice :)

[@Brimah314]

Maybe not 100% helpful but I had already backed it was fairly certain I was going to keep my Pledge. Watching this just make me more sure of that. Thanks

[@BoardGameCo]

Great!

[@AdamJorgensen]

Thanks for the video, definitely going to seriously consider this, didn't even know about it before. On a side note, any thoughts on Domination?

[@BoardGameCo]

On my shelf unplayed for now :( Darn pandemic.

[@JodouTR]

@BoardGameCo With the campaign for this ending in 4 days, have you kept tabs on this? The campaign stalled hardcore after day one and many, many play testers voicing concerns over balancing issues. Do you feel this is too much of a beta tester product? Because I do and I'm beginning to wonder if we don't see a 1.5 product next year, if the game even gains enough popularity. I should add that they very early on they polled backers asking if they should REMOVE the thematic bases for standard square ones that looked awful by comparison. They never to my knowledge talked about a result and despite me asking 3 times about it, crickets. Overall, not impressed with the product or company so I may pull my pledge here soon. $60 is a great price, but it's still $60 for a game that may be lacking.

[@npckse8508]

Definitely intrigued by this one and the price isn't bad. It will likely be either this one or In Too Deep. Need to watch play throughs and decide.

[@BoardGameCo]

In Too Deep vid coming up this week...probably.

[@snowren24]

I seem to be having the same conversion with myself that you had with yourself. Game looks good, but I'm not sure if the value will be there. I was maybe at 40% likely but after watching Rahdo and you I might be swaying towards backing.(maybe at 75%)

[@BoardGameCo]

Come to the dark side. We have no money but we pretend to play games more than we actually do.

[@snowren24]

@@BoardGameCo Haha I dont get to play that much anymore so I'm trying to size down my collection and stick to quality over quantity. Its hard!

[@joaocaracol8814]

Hi @Boardgameco. First of all, you're videos are a fresh new line of analysis, which I realy enjoy. I Guess it tends to be a more realistic and approachable oppinion, and more down to earth. Not sure about the others, but I think you can reach the gamers and speak to them in a way, that makes me feel i'm one like you. Maybe you don't do it like if it's your job, or oblied to do it, I guess 🙄. About this game, I can get this one for something around 55 euros already with shipping. However, i'm wondering if it will hold it's value, since the only thing ir appears to be KS exclusive are 3 cards... In other hand, 55 euros is, I guess, a good price for this game, if we take into account the written reviews like rahdo one for instance. It seems they really enjoyed it. So the question is. Do you still thinking that this one is a good option, dispite the oppinions about previous games of el dorado, and considering the kickstarter development?

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks for the kind words! I would ignore the prior game in terms of determining value....but it's still a risk. Depends very much on whether the end result is a mess or well playtested. I'm gambling on that risk but definitely a risk.

[@joaocaracol8814]

@@BoardGameCo well, it seems they're are testing the game and working with help of playtesters, in order to tune the game. At least it's one of their banners during kickstarter campaign. However, it also seems they're are not too responsive to the questions made and playtesters concerns, neither on campaign or other sites. Am I having the right feeling or is just me?

[@joaocaracol8814]

They also have changed the rulebook a lot, which made a lot of people argue that, now, it's a totally diferent game, and some of favorite rules and "mechanics" haver been washed away! This either could be a good sign (game more tuned) or a bad sign (they're not sure what are doing and are uncertaint of their abilities or quality)...

[@ScytheNoire]

It does look cool and different from most other games. If it gets good reviews, might be one I look for in the future.

[@looquanjun450]

In regards to El dorado, I was a backer of all 3 campaigns, I lost quite of $ in terms of value proposition. And yes I am still backing Age of Atlantis for now, hopefully it will take over food chain magnate in terms of gameplay.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yes! Hoping it will but definitely still a risk :)

[@RadiumVader]

Looks like a game I might enjoy. Thank you for the video

[@BoardGameCo]

No problem 👍

[@Muageto]

I'm backing it, for sure. Although to be honest, that's mostly because I got to test it on TTS through another channel's discord and because that's the kind of game I'm pretty sure I won't see on the old continent :) And also, compared to other games I backed on KS (or am backing), it's quite cheap :p (even factoring in shipping)

[@BoardGameCo]

Awesome, glad you've played it :)

[@FCL70]

FYI - The game is getting (what I would consider) major overhauls. So from a gameplay perspective, I don't think you'll know what you've got until the KS closes...and possibly not even then.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep, completely agreed....but enough people like the base that I'm still intrigued.

[@rysiuvg6168]

Highly recommend the playthrough by jongetsgames. Seeing the mechanics unfold helped me decide to definitely not back it.

[@BoardGameCo]

Thanks! That's one of the few I hadn't watched, I generally don't get a lot from pure playthroughs, but watching now just in case.

[@rysiuvg6168]

@@BoardGameCo Playthroughs are my go to because I get a general idea of how the game (might) play and if it might fit mine and my group's taste. It's my main line of defense against the CoTN and FOMO :-D Care to elaborate why playthroughs generally don't work for you?

[@Dandyphonic]

@@rysiuvg6168 Same for me, this allowed me to avoid Hel the last saga ... gameplay was soporific and fiddly

[@BoardGameCo]

@@rysiuvg6168 Sure, first reason is I've found they don't give me a good feel for whether I'll like a game. I've watched playthroughs of games I love....and thought they were dull beyond belief. 2 is the amount of time it takes to watch a playthrough, I can watch 2-3 reviews/previews that give me a better idea. And finally, because I look at the value...I don't mind if a game isn't for me....assuming I got the value judgement right, I'll just resell.

[@RedEyedGhost1]

I also get much more value from play throughs than I do reviews. Jon's had the opposite effect on me. This looks like the game I was hoping Tapestry would be.

[@Mepper.]

I am interested in this campaign, but I decided to not back it partially because I have too many KS games that I'm already waiting for.

[@BoardGameCo]

Ummm, yes...that's totally a factor for me.

[@aliplaysalotro]

I get your idea and know that this game is not TIOED, but I will pass on it till they launch an expansion for it (which will certainly happen in the next 1-2 years). Hopefully by then we know more about the game 😊

[@BoardGameCo]

A fair and safe choice....this is definitely one of my riskier "should you back its"

[@beneisen6982]

i definitely enjoy the theme of Atlantis, but i don't think it'll get much play in my gaming group.

[@johnpanagos5835]

I will pass this1. If it is a good game i prefer to w8 for a second KS campaign.

[@1AngelAlita]

I like Atlantis Rising but one needs only so many Atlantis themed worker placement games.. ;-)

[@BoardGameCo]

Which do you have already?

[@1AngelAlita]

@@BoardGameCo Atlantis Rising ;-)

[@Grumdy]

This was a hard pass for me because of how The Island of El Dorado flopped, but your reasoning convinced me to change my mind and back the game.

[@BoardGameCo]

Awesome :)

[@tychay]

Variable Player Powers in a Civilization (tech tree and ages) on a eurogame without hard area control/take-that? I sense this game will be impossible to balance correctly. When mechanics interlock, it is important for designers to see how the mechanics interlock and why certain mechanics exist as balances in weaknesses for the other. When you introduce VPP, you will make them anemic or you will need players to balance them over-the-board take that (a la Cosmic Encounter and Dune). When you introduce engine building AND a tech tree you allow for snowballing (Food Chain Magnate). The combination without any mitigating mechanic makes things impossible in the hands of skilled players. FCM works because people who like the game fail to see how terrible the game is for newer or lighter players. It's basically Monopoly with skill (you beat on them, and then beat on them some more) and honestly it reminds me of how I noticed people who were bullied high school became the worst bullies in my college without realizing their victims were not their tormentors in high school. (Trust me, the people you are crushing with FCM are not the people who made you play Monopoly when you were a kid.) Other games with snowballing mechanics add a small comeback mechanic but really do it by ending before it gets out of hand (Quacks of Quedlingburg). This one tries to approach it by trying to give you interesting decisions throughout (and a little comeback mechanic). That'll work well on a dozens of plays, but won't stand the test of time when good players play the game a lot with each other (Tapestry).

[@BoardGameCo]

Agreed on FCM being terrible for newer players...but I still love it. If this goes anywhere near that for me it will be a win. And watch my other FCM video...anyone who's great at a game that just beats up on new players is doing it wrong. You want to ease people in, not scare them off.

[@lukebrason4452]

I really like Island of Eldorado 🤷‍♂️

[@BoardGameCo]

Nothing wrong with that....own your preferences :)

[@tas1624]

This tip me into backing.

[@BoardGameCo]

Cool!

[@razomax2724]

Is look cool game

[@robinrising9929]

hard pass here tbh. I generally want a good publisher, with a ton of money in the production, and great gameplay. What's the real sell? el dorado was a roll to move with no resell value. the components look way off for the price. The gameplay has this middle weight euro style build up, and then the game randomly hurts players and takes away their engine from a bag draw. Like el dorado, I wouldn't buy this at retail on sale just for mixing randomized engine destruction into a medium euro.

[@BoardGameCo]

It sounds like you're still basing your decision purely on El Dorado though...which while I understand...I really think isn't the case here.

[@yrusomad6]

@@BoardGameCo Huh? he is literally describing the game play, if you could actually talk about the game and not just how much of a "value proposition" your coverage would be a lot better. If the board floods you lose all buildings in that section.

[@tychay]

@@yrusomad6 Which game of the two has "then the game randomly hurts players and takes away their engine from a bag draw?" I don't know Island of El Dorado and am not backing this game, but my cursory glance is there is no randomness to the engine destruction, it occurs when Poseidon floods a sector which he does when invaders reach a certain point IIRC… not random at all. It's unclear to me which game he is referring to with his run-on sentence.

[@robinrising9929]

@@BoardGameCo I think the simplest thing to say about it, is it's $72 shipped and the kickstarter exclusive is 3 cards, and it's not a kickstarter exclusive game.

[@robinrising9929]

@@yrusomad6 which is important as only one faction gets bonuses for end game buildings.

[@alexferrand8574]

24h left, Should you still back it ?

[@BoardGameCo]

I still am but definitely a risk. The final product depending how and where playtesting ends up.

[@whitestrips1]

I don't think you need to repeatedly justify that Island of El Dorado is "good" game because it is not. When it was released it was one of the most negatively reviewed games in recent memory (both from reviewers and customers). You don't see that kind of reaction from a "good" game. Also, citing the bgg score of 7 as justification that it is good, without looking at the breakdown seem like an oversight. There are a significant number of 9 and 10 for a game that basically consisted of roll and move. Lastly, please don't conflate lighter or entry-level games with shallow gameplay. There are plenty of lighter games out that have good gameplay and still require one to "think" and make meaningful decisions.

[@BoardGameCo]

I am always hesitant to condemn something as bad as everyone has their tastes. And there are many that seem to enjoy it. And agreed on lighter vs shallow. But lighter games in general, even when not shallow, I find hit the secondary market more.

[@Nozdormu1982]

I am not backing the game. I don't think the game will end up being that bad. Just that other games are better.

[@BoardGameCo]

That's a reasonable enough approach.

[@Nozdormu1982]

@@BoardGameCo Also as far as value propositions go. The cheaper the game the less likely it will hold its value (unless the game goes out of print). At least this is from my limited experience backing games. Also the fact this game is going to hit retail doesn't help either. It gives me western legends fibes. Which is a game I ended up backing and that game (including stretch goals) ended up being cheaper in retail.

[@BoardGameCo]

@@Nozdormu1982 I agree to an extent.

[@thecaryou]

Island of El Dorando is not a good game like a 4 it feels like it was from the past. This is a auto past for that goodness I watched this I did not even check their past games.

[@BoardGameCo]

Yep