Axis and Allies - House Rules - Espionage & Spies

[@iamdadof2178]

I'm definitely late to this. We tried this and realized we should have limited the amount of spies to 1 or 2. The game turned into a James bond movie instead of ww2. It was fun but a very different game

[@BoardGameNation]

Awesome! Thanks for watching and giving these rules a try! We appreciate the feedback.

[@petermenkveld4162]

Do you think the game could be improved if Every time you build a spy it costed 3 more for every spy you already had on the board?

[@themole4369]

Might give spies a go sometime. Sounds fun! Only got the one friend who plays this game with me so could be a while yet! We’ve tried our own house rules at times. My favourite is the parachute regiment rule. It’s exactly what you think it is. Bombers have an alternative function which is to act as an air transportation unit. They can pick up a single infantry unit only (nothing else) either from where they took off or along the way but they still have to follow their usual pathing rule and find somewhere safe to land after dropping it. Bombers that have dropped parachutists cannot also drop bombs. Infantry parachuted into an enemy territory can then capture it/fight enemies as normal and the bomber remains in that territory until the non-combat phase when it has to move to a friendly territory. Naturally without backup their odds of success aren’t great but it can be an interesting way of capturing undefended territories. If dropping parachutists into a territory containing an AAA the defender shoots first in the usual way and if the bomber is destroyed the infantry is too. Ships cannot bombard a territory just because an infantry has been dropped in by plane. Bombers can also pick up infantry in the non-combat phase (so long as they haven’t moved already in the combat phase) and drop the infantry somewhere friendly along the way or where they land.

[@BoardGameNation]

Sounds fun! Thanks for watching!

[@TheChaplainMO]

“And there’s nothing in my ear...” 🤣🤣🤣 love it! Man, I appreciate all the hard work you and the team are putting into these videos. Quality production, passion about the subject material, engaging conversation/dialogue. Thanks for all you do!

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks! We appreciate the support!

[@danielpayne1597]

Found the channel with round 1 of the 2023 world tourney, now backtracking. Love the addition of espionage. The redirection orders power is probably too powerful but sure would be a thrill to execute. I'd put the Spy vs Spy damage rolls up to 3 instead of 1 so it isn't a whiff-fest. The main challenge of adding espionage to a board game is keeping things secret. That's part of the power and appeal of A&A, you have full logistical control of everything, but the opponent can see it all. A digital version of the game could make units invisible until you scout them out.

[@BoardGameNation]

All good thoughts. Thanks for watching!

[@scottmadison4380]

The best game I ever played was one where there were 3 boards. 'Known only to' Axis board, 'Known only to' Allies board, and 'Know to all' board. If you had a unit next to the enemy a chip was placed on the board to indicate 'something' was there. (note: subs were immune to this). If you had aircraft that could fly over, you got 1 recon bonus, which let you know how many infantry there were. There was a referee who told each player what they saw. Espionage was 'spend money to hide units' (usually 1 IPC) or 'spend money to know where units were'. Every 'espionage point' OVER the opponent would let you do a thing, which was usually 'give one attacking unit a free (sub) attack'. Made a HUGE difference in US v Japan. Great fun. Too hard to find referee though.

[@BoardGameNation]

I did something similar... once. It was cool idea, but it took forever. Play was ultra-conservative and dragged on all day. I think the players had a good time, but being the GM for the game was brutal. Thanks for sharing!

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

Very interesting spy rules, many interesting mechanics. I have seen some spy rules, being more about fog of war. The challenge with them was they used two boards, and required a GM to handle communication. I think those rule sets ar better to use with computer game, where the computer handles the role of the GM and there is virtually no added time for GM to handle communication, and different display. Your spy rules seemed a lot more fun on a single physical board.

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for the feedback! I have played the fog of wat variation with two boards, as you mentioned. It was fun, but logistically challenging. Plus, it took forever. Players were much more conservative when they had less information. Glad you enjoyed it! Give it try and let me know how it goes. Thanks for watching!

[@Lt.Dan..]

Here is the Spy rule you were explaining to me at breakfast! Nice video explaining this optional rule. Very clever

[@BoardGameNation]

Great to meet you! Thanks for watching!

[@ryanmichael1298]

I always just figured that spies and espionage explained unusually good or bad dice rolls; also, weather and other aspects of luck not included in the rule book.

[@BoardGameNation]

That is a good way to think about it. Thanks for watching!

[@Qwerty-fg2cy]

I added a Communist China in 1940 global version. I also added famous generals from every country. They are expensive but massively improve unit performance.

[@BoardGameNation]

Sounds fun! Thanks for watching!

[@HamboneHQ]

Excellent video and house rule! I've been at the same with Mr Bosch more than a few times over the years, great player.

[@BoardGameNation]

He's okay. ;) Thanks for watching and for the positive feedback!

[@shanebradford3922]

i love this new element! thanks we'll try it soon.

[@BoardGameNation]

Great! Let us know how it goes. Thanks for watching and subscribing!

[@BoardGameNation]

What did you think of our House Rules for espionage? We hope you will give them a try and let us know how it goes. Feel free to change them to fit your group or the version you're playing. Have fun! Want more videos like this one? Let us know!

[@inti665]

I have incorporated that mecanics but with cards. Thé player can take one random card if he or she has gain at least one territory in his/her turn. Also you can save up to 3 cards and use one on your turn. Thé abilities includes all that your mencioned and more, like blind stealing à card from opponent.

[@BoardGameNation]

Nice! I like it! Love to see how that goes. Let me know!

[@Schaumrolle24]

Hello Gary, thank you for this exciting and inspiring video and all the work that went into it. I would really appreciate more videos from you, regarding house rules. Maybe about air supremacy? Or a revision/extension of national advantages? Thanks again. Keep up the good work!

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback! I think the National Advantages rules that are in the back of the Revised Edition rulebook are actually really good. We have used them a number of times. The rulebook includes 6 options for each power. In an equally matched game, we each roll for one. In a game with a newer player, we let them pick one or two from the list or we let them pick their opponents. Other than bidding, it is the best way to balance a game with a big skills difference. Thanks again! Good hunting!

[@lifefindsaway7875]

@@BoardGameNation I could imagine some National Advantages for these new spy rules too. Germany - the Enigma machine. - Germany can roll an additional die when defending against an allied attempt to Intercept Orders Japan - Seppuku - when a Japanese spy would be turned, they instead are removed from the game. England - 007 - British spies require four hits to kill in Spy v Spy combat. Russia - when calculating the the benefit of Domestic Propaganda, each new territory is worth 1.5 IPCs, rounding down These probably need tweaks for balance (and historical accuracy) What should the Americans have?

[@pavelthedog6939]

I've been trying to figure out a way to do this very thing , but I couldn't come up with anything that works .... thanks for a new and fun way to shake up the game .....

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for watching! Glad I could help. Come back and let me know how it worked out!

[@calebmorrison6057]

One thing that isn't really a house rule is to make your own start. If you played for a while and you start to get bored you can set up your own game and have the other person choose the side so you make them as balanced as possible. Also instead of playing for a certain amount of important cities just play for global domination where the other player has no chance on winning.

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for watching!

[@markb2773]

I'm curious...How did you come to the decision to make the cost of a Spy 9 IPC's? Thank you.

[@BoardGameNation]

Good question! Honestly, it was mostly because nothing else cost exactly that much. I wanted it to be affordable, but not so cheap that they would be everywhere or that people would throw them away. Are you thinking about giving these rules a try? I would love to hear how it goes. Thanks for the question!

[@NotANameist]

Very cool

[@BoardGameNation]

Awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@Sooper-Pumpkin]

If a spy starts in an enemy territory and it immediately moves into a friendly territory can it still move again?

[@BoardGameNation]

Yes. The spy would gain a second move once in the friendly territory, but only one more. Great question! Thanks for watching!

[@rickschwab3963]

Thats pretty cool 😎

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks and thanks for watching!

[@roselandacademyshorts5571]

Any comment on using this for 1940 games? Or more or less the same rules? Also, can two spies attack the same spy of an enemy power at the same time, or is it strictly one on one?

[@BoardGameNation]

This should work for any of the main A&A games. If 2 spies attack 1 spy or vice versa, each spy gets 3 hits and they can be assigned by their controller. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for watching!

[@roselandacademyshorts5571]

@@BoardGameNation great, thanks!

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for giving my optional rules a try!

[@petermenkveld4162]

I do want to try this, I have my concerns of course. Redirecting orders seems OP, I think it would/could turn the game into a perpetual spy knife fight where the USA can afford to spam them and bog down the germans too much. Also, if the spy can do industrial sabotage but only costs 9 that makes that SUCH a good deal at scale. Would that not become the "right" way to play? I think that when spies are fighting the defending spy should have a slight advantage to address these concerns. like the defending spy may reroll any 6s and try to get more hits. A very slight Advatage. Theme wise, this is the least espionage "feeling" spy idea i have ever heard. I thing everyone should have to write out orders for their spy before they see what other players are doing. Before Russia does their combat move Germany decides what their spy does. Russia finishes their turn then UK decides their spy, and then the Germans reveal their spy. and so on

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@matthiasmoylan4815]

Can spies move through sea zones with transports

[@BoardGameNation]

Yes and more! This is something that didn't make it into the actual video. In my rules, Spies can ride on any friendly sea unit without taking up any cargo slots. However, it is one Spy per sea unit. If they are feeling luck, they can also stowaway on any enemy ship, but the enemy gets to roll one die at the start of their turn for each stowaway. Any roll of a '1' kills the spy. If a sea unit (friend or foe) holding a Spy is destroyed, the Spy survives and is no w just in the sea zone and goes back to moving one sea zone per turn. I didn't include these in the video in the interest of simplicity, but I think they create a faster way for Spies to get to and from Japan and the US. Thanks for the question and for watching!

[@mvg6553]

I like the idea of Logical response. Here is an idea i just had. Just like when doing an amphibious assult and there is an enemy ship blocking the sea you can leave dedicated units to fight a sea battle first and if that succeed you can go on with landing troops. How about you throw in a similiar idea for any sea or land battle. Tanks and sea units (units with more than 1 move) can "trample" an enemy by moving in during announce combat. You simply move in the defended zone with your army and announce which units will stay and fight and which units will press on to an adjecant border or zea zone from the one you attack. The ones you announce to continue moving can not partake in the first fight and will be lost automatically if you lose the first battle. Just like you would lose a transport in an amphibious assult defended by an enemy. So if you succeed in the first battle you can continue with the next. Meaning the second group of units could move like the first territory was empty. (You cleared the way by showing up with a superior force that could take all the attention of the defender letting your second squad pass by uncontested)

[@BoardGameNation]

I think there may be some rules issues with what you laid out. Can you give me a more specific example?

[@mvg6553]

Alright. While this was something I came up with on the spot I realize there is huge things that could swing in balance I give you an example. (1942 second edition) Russia put out 4 infantry in west russia and have 10 infantry, 2 tanks and a fighter in soviet capital. Germany has 15 infantry, 2 artillary, 10 tanks and 5 fighters in Belorussia. So you want to invade Russian capital of course and with my rule you could attempt this. Germany moves in all infantry, artillary and 5 fighters to west russia while announcing all the tanks to blitz through west russia. Should he win the battle in west russia which must be resolved first after all sea battles he can then resolve the battle in the russian capital. 10 tanks that is. Second example. Navy: Germany has a fleet of 1 battleship, 1 aircraft carrier with two fighters, 2 crusiers and 3 destroyers in sea zone 5. British has 1 destroyer in sea zone 6. Then they have a fleet in sea zone 8 containing 2 transport, 1 battleship and 2 cruisers. German moves in with their fleet to sea zone 6 and announces that only 1 destroyer and two fighters will fight in this zone and the rest of the fleet will continue to sea zone 8 should they win the fight. If they germans lose to the 1 destroyer in sea zone 6 the whole fleet will sink for the germans. If the germans win in sea zone 6 they continue the fight in sea zone 8 with the announced units.

[@nahamston]

Does the British spy get cool gadgets and a licence to kill?

[@BoardGameNation]

You know what... they should! Make it so!

[@pavelthedog6939]

I most often play 1940...I'm most often the axis....so I find "blocking" absurd... A 20 ship armada stopped by one lousy stinking destroyer ? Or 30 tanks and mechs stopped by one infantry? So I throw a house rule at you for your thoughts... Navy's can choose to ignore a blocker in rout to their primary target..but blockers may attack passing ships once when they enter the sea zone and once again as they leave the sea zone ... A destroyer with a small detachment of subs could reak havoc or deter the attack Blockers are immune to attack by passing ships...

[@BoardGameNation]

Interesting. I would be curious to see that play out. Thanks for sharing!

[@gargafarg2842]

Well, one lousy infantry cant block 30 tanks, but a bigass minefield just might, and if you own the place on your turn, it doesnt take a giant force to place those mines, but someone has got to be there and do it. At sea, there is the same idea, except it has to be a ship, and not a sub, which has an incredibly limited capacity to lay mines. So yes, one lousy infantry or destroyer should be able to block the blitz or further movement.

[@BoardGameNation]

A fair point. Thanks for sharing!

[@hugolima8492]

Does anyone have these rules written down that they are willing to share?

[@BoardGameNation]

Thanks for watching! Here are the Board Game Nation House Rules for Espionage. Let me know if you have any questions. Have fun! Let us know how they worked for you. Board Game Nation House Rule for Axis & Allies (any non-battle specific WWII version) Espionage Espionage in wartime can take many forms: Reconnaissance, Economic Sabotage, and CounterIntelligence. They can move quickly and unseen, but it is dangerous work. These house rules will incorporate these aspects of warfare into Axis & Allies in a fun and interesting way without overpowering the natural flow of the game. Introducing a new unit: Spies Cost: 9 IPCs Movement: 2 Combat: Spies do not participate in traditional combat in any way. They do not defend a territory or sea zone and they are not destroyed if a territory they are in changes hands. Spies are only destroyed if they are “caught” using their abilities or during Spy vs Spy Combat. How to Build: Spies may only mobilize in a country’s starting capital. This unit does not come from a factory. So, it does not count toward the unit count of an Industrial Complex. How to Move: A Spy may move up to 2 spaces in any friendly land territory or sea zone or 1 space in any hostile territory. Special Abilities: Reconnaissance, Corporate Espionage, Intercept Orders, Domestic Propaganda, and CounterIntelligence Spies may move then use an ability, but they only use one ability per turn. Reconnaissance: Spies can attempt to send attacking units detailed information about the location of defensive units. During the Combat Move Phase, if a Spy is in an enemy territory (other than the capitol) that comes under attack by friendly units, the attacking player may declare they are using the Reconnaissance ability. The defending player will roll 1d6 to try to catch the Spy. If the defender rolls a 1, the use of the Spy’s ability fails and the Spy is destroyed. If the Spy is in the enemy capitol, the defending player will roll 3d6 instead and will kill the Spy if any of the dice roll a 1. If the Spy survives, this unit successfully transmits the exact defensive position of the defending forces to the attacking units. This allows all friendly attacking fighters that are attacking that territory to be immune to Anti-Aircraft Artillery fire and to get a Surprise Attack during the first round of combat. They will fire before any other attacking units. Any hits will be assigned by the defending player and any units hit are destroyed immediately and will not get to fire back. All other combat and non-combat is conducted as normal. Corporate Espionage: Spies may try to steal IPCs from enemy Industrial Complexes If a Spy is in a territory (other than the capitol) that contains an enemy controlled industrial complex, as part of the Combat Move Phase, the attacking player may declare that they want to use the Corporate Espionage Spy ability. During the Conduct Combat Phase, the defending player will roll 2d6 to try to catch the Spy. If either die rolls a 1, the Spy ability fails and the Spy is destroyed. If the Spy is in the enemy capitol, the defending player will roll 3d6 instead and will destroy the Spy if any of the dice roll a 1. If the Spy survives, the Spy is able to steal valuable information from the enemy. The attacking player will roll 1d6. The result will be the transfer of that number of IPCs from the enemy and to the attacking power’s treasury. All other combat and non-combat is conducted as normal. Intercept Orders: Spies can attempt to alter the orders sent to enemy troops. Spies can only use this ability during the ENEMY PLAYER’S turn and the Spy must be in that player's capitol city. At the end of the Combat Move Phase (after the attacking player has assigned all movement, but before the Conduct Combat Phase begins) a Spy may declare that they plan to use the Intercept Orders ability. Once declared, the player controlling the capitol will roll 3d6. If any die rolls a 1, the Spy ability fails and the Spy is TURNED. Instead of being destroyed, the Spy changes sides. It is now a Spy unit for the defending player. Remove the enemy Spy unit and replace it with the nation appropriate Spy unit. If the Spy survives, the player controlling the Spy will roll 1d6. The result of that roll will be divided in half and round up. That number will be the number of orders to enemy units that can be intercepted and rewritten. The player controlling the Spy may “take control” of that number of units and issue them new combat move orders. These new orders cannot cause the enemy unit to break any other rules (all units have the same limitations and air units must be able to land, sea units have to stay in sea zones, etc) and they cannot be used to attack any units that are friendly to them. These units can be ordered to new territories to do battle with enemy units, they can be directed to territories where they don’t do combat, or they can be ordered not to move at all. Domestic Propaganda: Spies can improve morale domestically resulting in increased production strength. If a Spy is in its starting capital city during the Collect Income Phase, that player may opt to collect an additional 1 IPC for each territory that was captured this turn. CounterIntelligence: Spies can disrupt the abilities of enemy spies. If an enemy Spy is present when a Spy attempts to use Reconnaissance, Corporate Espionage, or Intercept Orders, the defending player may roll an additional 3d6 to counter the enemy Spy’s ability. If any of the dice roll a 1, the enemy Spy is destroyed. Spy vs Spy Combat A Spy is the only unit that may attack another Spy. During the Combat Move Phase, a Spy may move into a territory (land or sea) with an enemy Spy and declare an attack on that Spy. During Conduct Combat and before any other combats are resolved, the Spies will do battle. Starting with the attacking player, each player will take turns rolling 3d6. Each roll of a 1 scores a hit. Each Spy can take up to 3 hits. The defending player will get to roll last, even if the defending Spy has been killed. Neither Spy can use any other abilities this turn.

[@markb2773]

I really like all the spy House Rules except the "intercept orders ability" (I think its a bit too much) but I have a cool counter proposal for it: If your spy is successful in intercepting your enemies orders, then you have the ability to tip off your defensive units to an imminent attack...giving all your defensive units a one time (on the first turn of combat only) bonus of +1 to hit attacking units {infantry would hit this first round only on a 3 or lower, tanks a 4 or lower, fighter on a 5 or lower, etc} Also, I don't like the spy flipping part either...but everything else will be incorporated in our future games of A&A....Thank you for your keen imagination in putting real life aspects of World War II into our beloved game!

[@aceyirl]

@@BoardGameNation THIS SHOULD BE PINNED OR LINKED TO IN THE DESCRIPTION. Thanks Again!

[@BoardGameNation]

Mark - Thanks for all the feedback! Apologies for the slow reply. I am just seeing this comment now. I like your idea of the +1 for intercepted orders. It is certainly simpler to administrate, but it is also less powerful. Perhaps it needs to be a bit easier to achieve. I'll give that some thought. Thanks for watching! I'd love to hear how this played out for you in an actual game!

[@nolromer4671]

Interesting rules, will definitely give them a try! Only one question on the topic of intercepting orders: what counts as 1 unit? When moving a transport, does that count as 1 unit because you only have to change the transports orders? And if the transport is empty, does that mean making an amphibious assault takes up 3 orders (transport and 1 for each cargo unit)? Definitely high risk high reward, however. I bet this can make a huge impact!

[@pavelthedog6939]

The engineer.... this unit allows tanks and mechs to pass though a land blocker .... Engineers move one by itself or two with tanks or mech during noncombat , and have zero combat abilities and are like transports in regards to being used as casualties.. During combat movement, engineer(s) may enter space where the blocker is ... Blocker(s) may attack engineers ( roll dice as attackers ,not defenders ) If total hits equal or surpass the number of engineers, the block is successful... If engineers survive the attack, tanks and mechs may pass through blocked territory and attack as if blocked territory was empty... Just a rough idea ... might be totally unplayable ... but I think might be worth a discussion...

[@BoardGameNation]

I like the idea, but it seems complicated. Instead of using a new unit type, what if you gave bombers the ability to attack first to try to clear a path? Not sure what timing of all that would be, but it might be simpler. Thanks for sharing!

[@pavelthedog6939]

@@BoardGameNation you're probably right... i guess I can see my friends shooting down the rule halfway through the explanation ...

[@BoardGameNation]

Typically, the simpler the better. What is it about the game that you are trying to fix or improve with your house rule. Seems like you don't like the idea of blocking. What if you addressed that more directly? "The number of blocking units has to be at least 1/4 the size of the attacking units." Something like that.

[@pavelthedog6939]

@@BoardGameNation what I'm trying to do is create a viable alternative....instead of one unit blocking an infinite number,I'd like to see an option available to bypass it... but I also want to keep the element of chance for success and/or failure.. The nice thing about A&A is that it's a simple complex game ...but if it gets too complex, it's a headache , and if it gets too simple, it loses the drama and fun Again, these are just ideas off the top of my head to bounce around...

[@BoardGameNation]

@@pavelthedog6939 - You could use the same mechanic I stole for my espionage rules. Send in the bomber to clear a single unit. The defender fires first. If they roll a 1, the bomber goes down. If they miss the bomber rolls and hits on a 4 or less. It only gets one shot at it. So, if it misses, too bad. That might work.

[@gargafarg2842]

One other house rule that I like is building fortifications that cannot move but provide defense bonuses to units and do not have to be built in factories. What is nice about them, is they can make some pretty crazy battles happen, especially in capitals, and if they are costed right, can make an axis player more resistant to naval invasions or make the Soviet capital harder to invade dpending on how they work.

[@BoardGameNation]

Interesting. How do they work? Cost and time to build? What is the defensive bonus? Is there some kind of boost for the offense as well? Thanks for watching!

[@gargafarg2842]

I just made them cost 5 and give -1 to the roll for 3 defending units.

[@BoardGameNation]

Interesting! I'll have to give that some thought. I had a similar idea about mining the sea zones off the coast of capitals. Thanks for sharing!

[@germancat429]

heehee tf2

[@BoardGameNation]

Care to elaborate?

[@germancat429]

@@BoardGameNation the tf2 spy

[@BoardGameNation]

Ah! Yes. I suppose I hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks for watching!

[@germancat429]

@@BoardGameNation thanks for responding to my random comment, love your channel btw

[@BoardGameNation]

I try to get to as many comments as I can. Thanks for watching! Lots more to come!

[@joshuanorthey2026]

This makes no sense with the scale of the game. Espionage is a bad idea in the vast majority of board/computer games.

[@Wright1331]

not really a fan of any of these

[@BoardGameNation]

They aren't for everyone. :) Thanks for watching!

[@darthbigred22]

Stealing from HOI4 and CIV I see. Sheesh I think when your swiping ideas from those two you run into "just play HOI4".

[@BoardGameNation]

I've not played HOI. Sounds like I should. :) Thanks for watching!