Boardwalk Hall- More 64!

Wrapping up the subject of the '64 Diaphone we see how the testing was done for pitch, along with some "good vibrations"...

[@xsm5525]

never mind sub bass from 1980 onwards - these early 1900 dudes were SERIOUS bass heads!!!

[@accousticdecay]

These pipes sound so raucous by themselves, and add such beauty and power to the full organ sound.

[@timstoffel4799]

Never thought I would see an oscilloscope used to work on a pipe organ!

[@cnagorka]

It was a natural for this project!

[@timstoffel4799]

@@cnagorka I have been thinking about ways to more accurately sense those low pitches than a microphone.

[@timothytikker3834]

I remember reading that these resonators are made from Douglas Fir wood -- and they certainly look like it.

[@michaelmeyer7426]

Great videos and explanations!

[@JIMD6370]

Love it, shared this one too.

[@JBF-GST-Tanda]

Sounds like an MRI scanner

[@cnagorka]

It does, now that you mention it

[@roberthoffhines5419]

At the upper end, I could sense the half-step relationships until about G, then it was drumming. I couldn't "hear" pitch, but it just seemed to slot into where a half step should be, then it stopped for me. FASCINATING that they never were thoroughly tuned, especially since pitch has crept up so much since then. Oh, wait, that is in orchestras, ha! 440 still = 440 elsewhere.

[@blu4r414]

And again here after a few seconds

[@cnagorka]

You're obsessed, ha ha

[@cnagorka]

Actually I put a lot of work in to this one so that's good.

[@blu4r414]

@@cnagorka yeah i love this organ and i want to know more about it

[@Jm4steam]

Good video. Very interesting.

[@johnnyjames7139]

There comes a point when bigger isn't better. 32' C produces a pitch below our ability to hear, why go an octave lower? In other words, just because the dog can lick it's own behind, doesn't mean it has to.

[@cnagorka]

So they could say they did it.

[@principals16842]

I wonder if someone will double or quadruple the frequency of the audio in this excellent video for comparison with the old tuning? I seem to recall one of the notes (GGGGG?) used to be way out of whack, and I bet Nathan and Carl and the others had quite a job correcting it.

[@chrisnagorka5199]

Great idea!

[@chrisnagorka5199]

I can tell you D# won't sound very good, even now. We've tried everything to stabilize the tone but can't get it any more uniform.

[@principals16842]

@@chrisnagorka5199 Somehow I think it won't detract from the instrument! I'm reminded of Stephen Bicknell's essay on "Harmonics and 'Cheats'" in which he mentioned how "John Compton, in polyphonic mood, would occaionally provide only one pipe for the lowest 5 notes of a 32' open wood - it would play the same pitch whatever key was pressed but the ear heard a satisfying and convincing rumble." I can already tell that low D# in its current form is delivering "satisfying and convincing rumble" by the bucketful!

[@principals16842]

@@chrisnagorka5199 Thanks, as ever, for these videos. Alongside the weekly recitals these give us the best look at the beautiful beast in Boardwalk Hall, and they really scratch an itch for us nerdy 'organ anoraks' (as the Brits would say). I look forward to your visits to the hall for that reason!

[@adam207321]

I think for the lower frequencies you can improve the circuit. It would be easier to read on the oscilloscope. Lets say you rectify the signal coming out of the microphone. Fullwave rectify the frequency with op amps. That doubles your frequency on the scope making it easier to look at and also easier to tune because now you have a higher resolution measuremenet. For the chaotic behaviour I would build a comparator that I can set the voltage manually so i can controll when it will trigger. Also I would low pass it so no higher frequencies than the measurement are going to be visible. I would probably build a frequency counter too so I can see the frequency real time ish instead of waiting half a century on the oscilloscope to show me a reasonable frequency. I would also recommend manually measuring the frequency on the scope. Navigate the waveforms with the cursors because that gives you a lot more accurate reading. Single mode trigger to capture it though

[@adam207321]

Edit: fixed the grammar.

[@cnagorka]

Yes you're right but I'm done now, it was a fun experiment. I was going to bring an actual, separate frequency counter but that thing would take even longer than the o-scope to give a reading when I was testing the system.

[@adam207321]

@@cnagorka That is the reason why I would re do the sensing circuitry. Fullwave rectify it and improve signal integrity somehow because that scope reading was givving you a lot of trash aswell. Fullwave rectification and then peak detection for that you have practically just short pulses to measure would increase your use comfort..this is just a suggestion and how I would do it...eventually you will have to climb in there and check again at which point you want to come properly prepared..Not to make your back suffer waiting half a day for a damn 8Hz read :D

[@blu4r414]

Could you make a video on the 100" stops out in the room and also on chorus

[@chrisnagorka5199]

Maybe next time, I head home tomorrow.

[@qp5448]

I thing the shaking was caused by turbulence in those pipes

[@davidstewart4570]

I really find it hard to get my head around the scale of construction and ingenuity (and consequent expense) required to fabricate a stop whose lower notes are harmonically meaningless to the human ear. I'd love to hear them in context to see if it's possible to discern more.

[@JP-rf7px]

It would be interesting to put a contact mike on the pipe itself and measure the fundamental and major harmonics it it producing. It sounds to me like the sound being produced is the pipe mechanical vibration and not the air column inside vibrating. Perhaps it was mechanically impossible to construct a pipe that long with sufficient stiffness to allow the air in the pipe to speak without adding the mechanical sounds we hear. I'm thinking a pipe that long would have to be made of some wood stiffer than pine to speak properly.

[@JP-rf7px]

Also look at all the harmonics it is producing to see if they are the proper spread of harmonics seen in the higher pitched pipes on the same stop. Which I assume are the harmonics (the sound) the designer intended for that rank.

[@cnagorka]

@@JP-rf7px I tried using a "boundary" mic directly on the pipe beater box but it didn't work at all. Someday I may take another crack at it.

[@JP-rf7px]

@@cnagorka Maybe a strain gauge with one end attached to the pipe and the other to building heavy structure. Would probably have to do at several points on the pipe to see if there are "nulls" at certain points. But I know that would require a lot of climbing around in chests! I applaud your efforts to even tune the beast, much less get the harmonics structure to match for each pipe. Another thought. What if you recorded one of the higher pitched in the rank and then electronically lowered the pitch to see what it would sound like at the lower notes pitch. Might be interesting.

[@y11971alex]

I suppose tuners at the time the instrument was built would have tuned by harmonics or ear?

[@cnagorka]

They would have just done their best trying to tune it in octaves with the 32', most likely.

[@geezlepuss7863]

Does not sound like musical notes.

[@somerandomdragon558]

Because the video was recorded close to the clapper box thingy. Also those notes are not meant to be played solo.

[@gsten2116]

How did folks tune these things before oscilloscopes?

[@cnagorka]

They just sort of listened to the 32' with it and tried to tune it like anything else. Having said that, they probably didn't try very hard as there were more important stops to work on.