An Unusual Swarm Control Method

[@Dutchman1648]

Questions from a probable novice bee keeper: Why kill highly productive queens from robust hives? Will their killing stop swarming? Aren't those queens an asset in hand and better than an unproven queen replacement?

[@bobbinnie9872]

This is a good question. For us, knowing that the entire yard has a new queen from the current year is helpful. It's not always about what she is doing in the moment but what we can expect from her in the fall, with overwintering success and overall performance the following spring. My view is that queens in our area become middle aged at 1-1/2 years old partly because most of the best queens each spring have not gone through more than one spring build up in their lifetime.

[@filipvernica258]

That’s your opinion? I’m beekeeper for 6 plus years and I remember founding 3 plus years old queen, so I’m not understanding fully your thinking ( you can write me in Romanian, language also, I heard you mentioned in one of your conference about the Romanian brags about your division board?)

[@Dutchman1648]

@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks Bob. I assume that the queens you're killing then are coming up to or will have passed their prime this season. Replacements make sense then. I also appreciate your timely response to my query.

[@bobbinnie9872]

@@filipvernica258 I believe that most three year old queens would nor perform as well as most one year old queens. Like many creatures there are some that do well into old age but the averages are better for those that are younger. I have heard from some Romanian beekeepers that they like and use double screen boards more than US beekeepers.

[@filipvernica258]

I left the country Romania in 87 so I started habit bee in Portland Oregon I think you know where is even you start your bee keeping in eastern Oregon

[@DuckRiverHoney]

I look forward to this every Sunday morning Bob. Sitting here with my French roast coffee hoping the kids don’t wake up before I finish the video.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks Nathan. Enjoyed watching you break boxes. 👍

[@DuckRiverHoney]

@@bobbinnie9872 I’m interested in your thoughts on what I learned. Through the lens of 40 years and many thousand boxes.

[@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog]

Interesting idea , you are in a tight spot. I’d like to see the 2 week follow up on this , if you don’t mind Watched right to the end, I see that it worked. Thx for the video

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks. I've been watching you're moving the bees out. I hope the transition goes well. Brutal conditions up there.

[@timfeckley1689]

Hi Bob I watch you and that hard working Canadian Ian,if I had to endure that much snow I would move to Arizona 😂 my question is have you or have you ever hear of doing oxalic vapor at night since all the bees would be in the hive just a thought?

[@bobbinnie9872]

@@timfeckley1689 Yes and it works.

[@dcsblessedbees]

You said it Bob, fast bees this season. A lot of keepers bees seem to be blowing up fast this Spring. Thank for another great video.

[@thomashanna1253]

Please make a video about how you requeen an entire yard.

[@bobbinnie9872]

I put it on my list for this summer. 👍

[@layneknight7835]

I did this by accident this year with MAQS. Hives were absolutely booming March 25. Placed MAQS treatment and my 2 week follow up inspections revealed severely reduced brood rearing. My queens had shut down considerably. I wasn't expecting the extended reduction in laying based on the manufacturer's description. It wasn't the end of the world, but it was a learning experience. I will wait 3 more weeks next year. I really appreciate the wisdom you bestow on us. Thanks!

[@mikeries8549]

MAQs shut a queen down for 5 days.

[@lagrangebees]

Brood rearing control AND mite treatment, I LOVE learning new use for old products Thank you :)

[@tomkingsley4398]

Thanks, Bob, for providing the valuable management information. Love those double screen boards! I hope you have enough. Beautiful looking boxes of bees.

[@allsmilz7234]

Thanks for sharing good beekeeping Bob 👍

[@beebob1279]

I had a few hives with swarm cells a week and a half ago. I'm in southeaster Pennsylvania. It's a little early but they are bringing in nectar. I did a fast split to lower the numbers and hoping it buys me time. We're just seeing Dandelion. It seems to be a pattern. As soon as dandelion show up the bees build cells. Not when the flowers are heavy, but right at the beginning of the bloom.

[@gary5172]

WOW---Looks like you will be starting a new department-Queen Rearing.

[@markbooth8458]

Happy Easter. My bees here. Were really building up in February In March the weather turned cold and slowed them down.

[@kelitagedifarm4893]

Tuff spring in the southeast USA for sure. 25% of mine were drawing out swarm cells the first weekend of March this year, which is at least 3-4 weeks early for mine here in NE Alabama. I generally give a well seasoned beek like you the benefit of the doubt 99% of the time, but I'll be honest in saying that I was having a hard time following your logic here. The Q&A comments section has helped better explain that there were some objectives going on here besides throwing these girls into neutral for a few days, so I appreciate you taking the time to come back here and better explain yourself. I generally assume as I watch you operate, that most of these bee yards shown are mostly honey producers. It helped a little bit to understand that you still have several nucs to put together, and some of the splitting here was geared towards that as well. You always do an excellent job in producing and editing your videos, but perhaps this one needed a little more "main / other objectives" information added in the introduction of it. Whatever the case, it's not always a bad thing to make an old fart like myself stop and scratch his head a little bit every now and then. 😊

[@daviddiviney5599]

Used Formic Pro on one of my yards last spring with similar results.

[@thethrill6921]

Dickerson lane yard! I've seen your trucks go in and out of there a couple of times. My family are the dickersons, live in a couple of the houses at the end. I live in Clarkesville but have seen you/your guys while visiting.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Small world.👍

[@thomasbacon]

Spent a fair amount of time in those mountains in Ranger school, wedding in Highlands, stays at Dillard House, I cherish every bit of it even the rough and tough movement to PB in mountain phase. Wonderful amd beautiful part of the country.

[@SteveDratwa]

man i drove thru Duck Town,Rabbit Town,been on Goat Mountain Rd,Buck Snort Rd,Mudhole Washout Rd and lived in Hog Mountain on Hog Mountain Rd 1/2 mile from Atlanta Falcon Training Center,,never heard of that town LOL LOVED GEORGIA for 19yrs im back home in Ashtabula,Oh with snow still comin

[@rayjohnson8329]

Got to hand it to you and thank you once again for another great tactic to learn. Dbl screen boards and the treatmemt to slow things down. I’m in the middle of it right now. My queens got delayed by 2 weeks. Thank you. I promise I will be by the store next time I go to florida for a dozen dbl screen boards. Best of luck and take care, Rays Bees

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks and good luck to you.

[@dianetaylor6751]

Happy Easter! Thx for the video. Pretty country. Love the waterfall. Grass is green here and growing. A few leaves trying to peek out and they are hauling in maple and dead nettle pollen too. My back hurts. Life is normal and good...lol!!!!

[@bobbinnie9872]

Happy Easter Diane. 👍

[@brucesouthernsassapiaries8316]

Bob, thanks for the great info and the great idea!

[@GEEZBEEZ]

Nice to know for keeping swarms down. Lots of bees. Hopefully the flows get going soon. Thanks for the video. Take care.

[@BucketListBees]

You know what I think, your doing a fine and dandy job. Business is business.

[@Peter_Gunn]

Always great to see your videos on Sunday mornings. Thanks so much for all the great information.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks, 👍

[@andywhite9932]

So glad I actually witnessed a swarm in one of your yards. Gives me hope that im not screwing up when I follow your program as close as possible yet still get a few swarms

[@bobbinnie9872]

We definitely get some swarms.

[@wadeturner2665]

Bob, 3 questions about this. 1. If you had a colony without swarm cells and you happened to see the queen, did you cull the queen and not treat with apiguard? 2. For colonies with queen cells that you splt, did you find the queen in those, or did you not worry about the possibility of having the queen and swarm cells in one of the splits? 3. When you did get your queens in, do you re-queen everything including swarm cell splits or colonies that you culled the queen, even though those colonies likely had new, just mated queens in them.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Wade. 1. Any queens that are doing a decent job at this time are left and treated unless that colony is preparing to swarm. Even then, if there isn't any empty spots in the yard we may leave the queen and cut that colony back hard so it will stop wanting to swarm. 2. We watch for the queen as we're splitting but if we don't see her we don't worry too much about it and let the bees sort it out. We try not to spend a great deal of time on one colony. 3. The queens came this last week. Later in the season we will re-queen all colonies with a queen from the previous year for sure and will take a look at the colonies with new queens and decide at that time. Reasons to replace the new queens could be bad temperament, too much of the wrong genetics or overall performance.

[@dadu63]

Happy Easter Bob and yall your crew and family. Thanks for sharing this video! Wished I had those queens you were killing. Lol.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thank you and happy Easter to you.

[@user-mi4fj9rq7v]

Thank you for another great video!

[@RyanMcDonnough]

How well did this work for you? Nice idea. And your colonies look great, per usual.

[@bobbinnie9872]

It actually worked. Although we've had some swarming I'm sure it's much less than it would have been.

[@stevesoutdoorworld4340]

Thanks Bob for sharing. Great looking hives & crew! Girls on the crew ! Yer a lucky MAN!😁

[@filipvernica258]

This is the man Stevos you found him

[@rodneymiddleton9624]

Getting creative. Thanks Bob and happy Easter

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks and Happy Easter to you too.

[@timmiller2192]

Thanks Bob! Blessed Easter! Picked up 7 queens in Ga on my way home from a Fl. Vacation. Did 3 frame splits in mid March here in Ohio. They are all doing great so far! Thanks for all the info!!

[@bobbinnie9872]

And a blessed Easter to you too.

[@ericgunter45]

Yesterday here in southern Illinois was a prime swarm day. Was working through bees when all of a sudden the buzzing got really loud behind me. Turned around in time to watch a swarm take flight, fortunately they only flew to the neighbors and landed in a tree. It was a massive swarm half of it filled a nuc box so had to run grab a dead out 10 frame to put them in. And had 2 swarms move into swarm traps.

[@mikeconley3031]

Another great video 👍👍

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks 👍

[@aledomenico4352]

Hi Bob, awesome video I just heard of this method last week and now I’ve seen it used thanks! I want to try out the Langstroth hives next year, here in Italy we mostly got dadant blatt. I’ll probably try to do a couple splits next week if I see swarm cells

[@robertdemers5125]

Good morning Bob !

[@bobbinnie9872]

Good morning sir.

[@frankspataro9714]

Nice trick Bob I like it thanks

[@mikehill9888]

Thank you for the video 😊

[@bobbinnie9872]

My pleasure 😊

[@KajunHomestead]

Great video Bob

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks 👍

[@CCCRApiary]

Mud creek falls as the locals call it! My colbinnies been ahead of me for a month.

[@randallmuir5570]

Hi Bob. Some questions about swarming plus one about about equipment. What percentage of your colonies would you estimate end up swarming despite your management efforts to minimize it? What percentage would be your goal? (Sometimes I wonder do I go to too much time and effort to minimize swarming in my small commercial operation.) Now onto the equipment question. I have trouble keeping paint on the top surface of my HDO lids. The high density resin surface is so slick it is even resistant to primer. Do you even worry about painting the top surface, or just paint the edges and the strips of wood that have been added to hold it in position? Thanks much.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Every year is different. This year myself and others in our area experienced a greater than normal percentage of swarming. Some colonies that had been split heavily still swarmed. Many people reported 50% swarming no matter what they did. Other years the same management might only average 10%. Of course 0% would be my goal but that won't happen to us because we don't visit our colonies often enough to catch it. We only paint the edges on our HDO lids. If you sand the top surface the paint will stick better but we don't bother.

[@richardnoel3141]

Love seeing your Apiaries. They look fantastic! !!🐝🐝🐝🤓💪🏻🥳

[@bobbinnie9872]

Hi Richard. Thanks and hope your season is going well so far.

[@richardnoel3141]

@@bobbinnie9872 thanks Bob, yes a shaky start with being behind, rubbish weather and high winter losses but apart from that, all great!! 😂😬😬 but I will pull through. Sure wish we could get that Api-guard gel that you have they only sell it in the small containers here not in the buckets that you put on the card I think it will be a game changer for us just another additional good value product. All upwards from here on! Keep making the great videos! Bee well!

[@ehsanpartovi]

Bob you are absolutely amazing. ❤

[@MinnesotaBeekeeper]

Mr Binnie you mentioned putting the Apiguard in between the supers because of the cooler temperature. What are your current highs and lows? That sign has been such a great ad successes for you, wonderful.! A Blessed Easter sir. He has risen. And thank you.

[@bobbinnie9872]

At this time it was low 30s in the mornings with a high in the mid to high 50s.

[@ademkanl3239]

Greetings from Turkey. I am a new beekeeper. I've been watching your videos for a year, you have really different methods. I don't quite understand why you used thymol, what it does. Thanks

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thymol in this form is Apiguard which is a mite treatment. It also slows egg laying when it is present in the colony. Slowing egg and brood production will delay swarming which is why we used it here.

[@ademkanl3239]

​@@bobbinnie9872Then can we say that thymol causes a short-term sterility in the queen bee? When I give syrup to bees, I put thyme leaves in it. But I saw that the queen bee lays fewer eggs. Thank you for your answer. love and respect

[@DonaldRogersBaldEagle]

at 4:30 time stamp, there appeared to be a queen cell top left area.

[@bobbinnie9872]

There is lots of queen cell cups and a few cells of drone brood that look a bit like a queen cell but I don't think there are any active queen cells.

[@chriskleynhans8397]

The beesuits still look very clean.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Must have just been washed.

[@rushingriverapiaries]

Very interesting! Do you see queen loss/supercedure with thymol?

[@bobbinnie9872]

No, as long as we don't over do it.

[@RB-cz5jn]

Probably don’t have the time. But I would of sold the brood frames. Up north we need them.

[@andrewk1191]

Christ has risen! God bless you!

[@southernhellstorm6634]

Bob I have caught 2 wild swarms by luck in 2 weeks coming thru my apiary, was amazed how they both were in same peach tree I have. All my bees were not swarming since I already did swarm prevention here in NC. Im not far from Bee Needz where you visited in Sofia. I am thankful I got the free bees coming thru I guess my apiary draws them in here!! God Bless..

[@bobbinnie9872]

Thanks. You're about your bees drawing them in. Swarms are often attracted to other apiaries.

[@ronaldlassiter4863]

Hello Bob Do you go in the honey production hives in the nectar flow ?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Only if we see a problem such as low bee numbers or lack of production.

[@FuzzyOne37]

Hi Bob, where do you get the 'cards' from. I'd like to get some for my yard. THANKS!

[@bobbinnie9872]

The cards shown in this video come with the tub of Apiguard. Index cards work well too.

[@RobertAnderson-o5y]

I have a quick question, I have a strong hive . Wehen I inspected them 2 days ago, I did not see any swarm cells but did see what appears to be supersidure cells. I am confused about whether to split this hive or just let them be bees. I don't want them to swarm. Suggestions. I have had bees only one year. Thanks. Robert Anderson

[@bobbinnie9872]

If it only has one or possibly two cells on the face of a comb there's a good chance it's a supersedure cell, in which case I would leave it alone and let the bees be bees. If there are several then it's likely they are preparing to swarm. You can remove these cells if you're sure the queen is still there and create more space and airier conditions or split it using a cell in all parts.

[@Hivemonkeybeekeeping]

Maybe raise your own queens , I think you're a professional beekeeper.

[@freddies515]

What brand of nitrile gloves are the ones I see one of the guys using and where do you get them from? Thanks

[@tristonosborne5537]

Hey Bob when you make your double screen board splits how long do you wait to put in a queen cell? Also how do you transport your cells with you as you move through your yards without damaging them. Do you use an incubator in your operation. Thank you

[@bobbinnie9872]

Ideally, we like to put the cells in eight to twelve hours later. It doesn't always work exactly that way though. We use a styrofoam incubator to hold the cells. I think it will show up in our next video.

[@PutEmInTheBox]

Bob, what were the temperatures like when you did this? Thinking of trying tomorrow with highs of fifty for the upcoming week.

[@bobbinnie9872]

It was about 50°f and nearing sundown when they started.

[@jtlearn1]

My experience Apiguard shuts down brood production for about two days.

[@jaibusby673]

hi, just wondering about your double brood boxes, do you leave them like that all year or take them to single brood box in winter and if so do you leave a stores box with queen excluder above or below brood? or just take weak hives down to singles?

[@bobbinnie9872]

We do an assortment of things depending on circumstances and needs. In our area our good colonies do best as a double deep but we do overwinter a lot of singles. If a colony is compromised I do prefer it in a single because it's easier to nurse along. We never put a queen excluder in an overwintering colony.

[@ETsBees]

You killed a good queen when you don’t have queens. What!! I wish I was closer I would have picked her up. I need some queens. My queen supplier is late this year and I need to split. A booming queen like that would have been good enough for me

[@gallowaylights]

Sell uses queens, that's an idea!

[@hefleyhives]

I hope ol' Bob gets a commission from Apiguard because I think he just gave them a spike in demand 😄

[@user-mi4fj9rq7v]

Johns future house (?).....John future commune !

[@mckeeshoneybees8351]

Good morning Bob, I understand your treating for swarm control but I was curious if you did any mite counts beforehand? Thanks

[@bobbinnie9872]

We check for mites on a regular basis and still have very low numbers.

[@ewanfuller5742]

Hi Bob . Do you use all Langstroth Deeps or Mediums on your hives? I was just wondering as they look to be all deeps to me

[@bobbinnie9872]

All of our brood chambers are deeps whether they are singles or doubles and we use both deeps and mediums for supers.

[@sinisterhipp0]

I do a similar thing but with MAQS (formic acid), knocks population back.

[@Xray.71]

How do you boost bee numbers in a 5 frame nuc with a frame feeder in it? Just put in a new queen in a cage.

[@johnmorgan9435]

Bob, I am amazed, the difference between what you are doing with a medication (Apiguard) in the USA, and what is allowable with medications in the European Union. Here it is a felony to use medications for anything but for the purpose it is original intended for.

[@keithfaithful3989]

Will Apiguard ever run a queen out to the front of the hive like the workers?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Yes, if too much is applied or it's too hot.

[@pegmurphy9069]

A frame with lots of pollen, do you pull it out and replace it with a frame of comb? Please don’t move pollen as I understand it.

[@bobbinnie9872]

Not generally.

[@DrBrec]

Hello Bob. I live in Albany Ga. I want to learn how to start bee keeping. I would like to learn from you. Do you have time to talk?

[@bobbinnie9872]

Our email address is on the "about" page.

[@brianlivingston21]

Is there no need to check for swarm cells in the bottom box. I noticed just checking under the top. Thank you.

[@bobbinnie9872]

The vast majority of colonies like these will have cells along the bottom bars in the top box if they're preparing to swarm but there is a small possibility that there could be cells only in the bottom.

[@brianlivingston21]

@@bobbinnie9872 thank you for taking the time to reply. And thank you for the video. I watch every Sunday.

[@BeeOleg1890]

Христос Воскрес!💯💛💙🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝

[@wadebarnes6720]

I'm most likely missed it but why are you getting rid of Queens

[@bobbinnie9872]

Knowing that the entire yard has a new queen from the current year is helpful. It's not always about what she is doing in the moment but what we can expect from her in the fall, with overwintering success and overall performance the following spring. My view is that queens in our area become middle aged at 1-1/2 years old partly because most of the best queens each spring have not gone through more than one spring build up in their lifetime.

[@wadebarnes6720]

@@bobbinnie9872 I lost my original queen this spring which she would have been her 4 winter she was rough looking last year she tried to swarm she made it about 3 ft she had no wings to fly with they was chewed up I seen her in February and the middle of March I have found supersedure cells that's what I've seen them called in the middle of the frame. But she made a lot of daughters.

[@bobbinnie9872]

@@wadebarnes6720 Just like humans, some seem to persist beyond the odds.

[@wadebarnes6720]

@@bobbinnie9872 two years is what I usually get this year everything so far ahead I had a swarm in February

[@Aereaphotography]

Hi Bob if you are killing the queens why worry about swarming, your brood cycle stops at that point of removing queen, just wondering that's all👌

[@bobbinnie9872]

We are only splitting and replacing queens in the colonies trying to swarm. We want the rest to stay in production mode. We still have many nucs to make and hopefully will also make some spring honey.

[@chriskleynhans8397]

I think the mites wish that the queens were on time :)

[@bobbinnie9872]

I think you are right.

[@filipvernica258]

It’s a beekeeper in Miami area a old man 75? Steve’s world he is bragging about you and he raised queens to, he’s a beekeeper for over fifty years, try him.

[@filipvernica258]

I don’t get why do you kill the queen’s

[@bobbinnie9872]

Because, although some queens can last for several years and do OK, they usually don't perform as well younger queens. We have a better average outcome with queens that are less than two years old.

[@vytbbb7146]

Why cant you just isolate your queens for a while, to stop laying?

[@bobbinnie9872]

That would be a good choice and would work better but a bit more time consuming. I'm also keen on giving them this spring mite treatment though.

[@rodrigogabrecht7945]

💪👍🤗💝

[@moosibou]

If you're killing queens anyway, and really wanting to split today, why not go ahead and split those hives. Just pull 5 frames of bees and brood, or split the doubles in half. You don't have to find the queen. She's either in the parent hive, or the split. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, you want her superceded so you're going to requeen everything, anyway, so just make the split and requeen everything when you do get queens in a few weeks. Just seems like you're putting a lot of work into trying to hold off a swarm, yet you're still taking a chance of losing bees to swarms with the approach you're taking in this video since you're not actively looking for queens. The only benefit I see here is the mite control.

[@bobbinnie9872]

It actually worked well. We have been taking nucs out of those colonies this week (two weeks later) and all was in great shape with no queen cells and plenty of bees. In another two weeks they'll be ready for supers.

[@filipvernica258]

I sand a message regarding your video to Steve’s world beekeeper but look like he has the same mentality killing the queen on second year, taking about experience…

[@maragrace820]

No, won’t do that.

[@Draintheswamp2024]

couldn't you just buy those 200 queens from someone else?

[@bobbinnie9872]

To short of a notice.

[@Draintheswamp2024]

@@bobbinnie9872 Bob I asked someone on Facebook about queens and I think they have virgins, so I told them to find you in the comment section on this video I think they are in FL

[@mikeries8549]

Purchasing queen's is THE MOST STRESSFUL part of beekeeping. The VERY MOST important thing is that the breeder gets paid well in advance. Very important! They go oops...you're screwed, and refund?. Not even mentioned I assume that money is already spent. It's just a thing move on. 😂

[@bobbinnie9872]

This producer is actually a good guy and we actually received eventually but I know what you mean.

[@beskidzywieckipasieka9652]

🐇🐰👍🏻

[@bobbinnie9872]

👍