Dragon Of Icespire Peak DM Guide | Shrine of Savras Quest

[@BobWorldBuilder]

The PENULTIMATE quest in this series!! But don't fret, there will be some more general guides for this module before we're through :)

[@Peter-xs2mu]

I'd love to see how you handle the final confrontation with Cryovane!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

@@Peter-xs2mu I'm excited for it too! I'm going to have to make sure it's pretty challenging for my party because the main PC still has four beads on a necklace of fireballs lol

[@philipgoding4198]

@@BobWorldBuilder So it sounds as if you are going to Icespire Hold next. Were you planning to do a DM's Guide or Gameplay on Falcon's Hunting Lodge or was that covered in another video?

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Philip Goding I’m planning to make a video covering all the NPCs, and how I imagine their personalities (maybe their voices too), and I will include Falcon’s lodge there

[@philipgoding4198]

@@BobWorldBuilder Sounds good. I also liked the video on running Icespire and Lost Mines together.

[@GeekVFood]

My party, much to the amusements, and frustration, of the DM, was able to steal the bell in an Ocean Eleven's style heist. Without alertin,g or fighting a single Orc or Ogre! It was nail-biting, but so glorious to actually pull off successfully!

[@samnaghavi9775]

How did they find out gold is in the bell?

[@vincepale]

Phew, I have 4 LV 7 players, all of which are good at the game, and a few have really sunk their teeth in and are much more experience, and they CHEWWED through 4 ogres and 2 sentry orcs. I almost don't know what to throw at them next! I love your videos and they're super helpful.

[@georgejenkins9412]

From Conyberry they brought me here to find a place to hide, My poorer sister sleeps nearby now laying on her side, We had to move her from her place the place were I now linger, To remember her I have this ring I don't wear on a finger.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Really nicely done!

[@aEuphoricGloom]

Totally stealing this! We're going to split the phrases into fragments inscribed in different places on the box, so they have to put them together first.

[@thegkoshow7885]

My party of 6 level 3's fought 18 orcs and 2 ogres and came out on top thanks to some smart tactics and having the orcs be spread throughout the whole compound. They went there on the way back from the butterskull Ranch quest before mountains toe, so I added in that they found the body of a younger wererat that was the child of the whiskered gangs leader which they ended up giving a proper burial. This gave them a proper bargaining chip in getting the whiskered gang to leave the mine without conflict and it actually worked out surprisingly well!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

The GKO Show That must have been a fantastic battle! And the wererat part was a smart inclusion. Well done 👍🏻

[@charliemurphy6457]

My nieces came to Savras via wererats and had somehow convinced Don Jon to join them instead of staying to "convince" the wererats to leave. My oldest niece's character died during the fight with rules as written. But I had Don Jon suggest that the this place was a temple and he and my other niece carried the character to the altar. After a religion/prayer check from everybody I allowed her to be rezzed and she got the vision because of it

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Excellent save! 👍🏻

[@charliemurphy6457]

I had to think of something, she was very disappointed in losing her fox ranger. He also learned that her owl pet was kind of a bad ass lol

[@rubenbortels2234]

Was thinking about writing 'Let the golden light of Savras shine on us, to be divinely enriched.' on the coffer. Thanks for the hint!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Wonderful! I like that better than mine. It's less obvious haha

[@dustinvognild8128]

Great tips, Bob! I love the idea of the riddle and giving the ogre multi-attaxk. Genius.

[@lateoriginal]

I have a suggestion for the riddle - I used: "A'pealing is the treasure of Savras. Ne'er more of the earth but safe among the heavens." Incase you are not aware - 'pealing' is the ringing of a bell.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Ahhh, I was not aware, but that makes for a very good riddle if you have a player who is aware :)

[@cubingmachine1968]

I never understood how a group of orcs could out-power the were-rats previously inhabiting the shrine if the were-rats have an immunity to non-magical weapons. So I decided a troll was more fitting since they have high regeneration abilities. This made the encounter a breath of fresh air compared to the usual orcs/goblins (just be sure to scale the HP or regeneration how you see fit)

[@BobWorldBuilder]

That's a great switch!

[@SumnerHomeVideos]

Thanks for the shout-out Bob! My party had a great time in the Shrine. I decided that the guard tower wouldn't be able to see people carefully approaching from the opposite corner, so this turned into a stealth mission with the party sneaking from area to area trying to take out as many orcs as they could before the alarm was finally raised. As my group hadn't finished the Mountain Toe Mine yet, I had one imprisoned wererat chained to the bed in the side room, as the orcs were trying to get the location of the treasure from him. After rescuing him, he helped the party learn more about the wererats in the mine and gave them info about the hidden entrance, etc. The party deduced the secret of the bell tower on their own, but then had fun puzzling out how to get the bell down and transport it back to Phandalin.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Awesome! I really love how you've built on the wererat-orc connection of this location! This one adventure that could have used another half page of details for stuff like this :)

[@CharlieDouglas]

Great ideas! I love this series, so helpful. I think I'm going to have some copper paint somewhere in the temple, maybe a small closet with a used paint brush or a few drips on the ground where the villagers painted it. I'm going to use your idea of various holes having been dug by the wererats, perhaps the villagers buried any evidence and the wererats found a bucket and brush, ignoring it as useless junk. Your video has given me a lot more inspiration than the book did so hopefully it'll make for a better adventure. Thanks!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Ahh copper paint is a great idea! Thank you for your support! :)

[@MrBrianofarrell]

Love this series, thanks for doing them. I ran this for my first campaign last month, got another campaign underway and intend to drop the hints for them too. In my first campaign, I just handed the gossip in bits to add flavour or encourage the party in directions. So the dragon one in the first session to add tension and purpose. And this story when they were getting the 2nd tier adventures as they would already be in the area. Further teasing with Savras runes amongst the Conyberry ruins. And after rescuing Big Al, he told he heard of the stories but hadn't got to explore himself as looked like some rough folk occupying the space to forewarn combat. I was shocked my party struggled with the fight after how easily they dispatched the orcs at the ranch. I set it up with a cluster of orcs in 3 quadrants and orges in the SE quadrant. And had the NW cohort charge through the wall out at the party. And then the other two bunches of orcs attack when they entered, with the orge coming two rounds later and that stage only one orge.

[@MrBrianofarrell]

I had expected that the bell outside would be enough of a clue, but the party didn't inspect the hanging bell, so got no treasure from their treasure hunt. So definitely like the idea of the riddle. But for me this is an important encounter just for the altar as it ties into the primary plot and gives purpose to the culminating arc. For my next group, the clue dropping is being run by Halia, the party seem taken and like treasure. And will definitely drop the riddle, probably back in Conyberry. And I am fully into the Sly relic game these days, so will have something appropriate for my party when we get there.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You're welcome! And I like your strategy -- waves of enemies seem pretty viable based on yours and others' comments, as long as the party has some ranged abilities. Also, as familiar as I am with Sly Flourish's series on KZbin, I haven't heard much about these relics yet. I assume they are in his article?

[@MrBrianofarrell]

@@BobWorldBuilder it is part of his lazy DM style to think about minor magical items that the party would like (following from step 1, the players). Often limited use items with a spell enabled. One of my games, paladin buries the dead after each battle, so I have made his god imbue it with Spare the Dying, once a dawn. The cleric was always trying to get a hat, so he was able to find a helm with Divine Favour (published on DDB, Kelemvor's Favour).

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Brian O'Farrell excellent! Yeah, I really need to pick up his book already! But I’m saving all my RPG purchases for my local game store once they reopen!

[@gariko]

The only encounter my players ran from. This is because prior to arriving, they had a random encounter with Cryovain who put them all in death saving throws after one unseen breath attack. I had quickly planned that they would wake up, taken and bound by the orcs, at the shrine of Savras, but one player rolled a natural 20 and arose with 1 hp, Cryovain mocked the players character and flew off (the character is a barbarian zealot of Bane and has a goal of being the strongest/continuing to defeat stronger things so that made it personal to her). Ruined my plan to have them captured, but they healed up, rested to gain conciousness. The Ogre and orcs that would have dragged them away then fought with them. After the battle they traced the orcs back to the shrine, but being at low health, low on spells and abilities against 12 orcs who were called to chase after them after being spotted, they ran. After defeating Cryovain they came back for revenge. The Warlock stealthily got through (Falcon's boots were useful) and summoned in some demons which all got crit melee attacks on the unconcious (sleeping) orcs and ogres. The rest of the players came in from behind to mop up as they were distracted with the demons. They were happy with their revenge.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Revenge is sweet! It’s always awesome when the party can circle back and take out an enemy they couldn’t handle the first time :)

[@MacGuzman]

Dude that is such an epic story! That session must have been really fulfilling!

[@MyFireVideos]

My party is getting swarmed as we speak at this location but we have to pause til next week. I like this one!

[@england101510]

Your guides have been a huge help for me as a first time DM. Many thanks Bob!

[@relopez30114]

Wow thank you so much for this! I just got the essentials kit and am playing a one player game with my daughter and this is where she decides to start after Phandalin! Her character is an elf with 5hp smh. I’m learning how to set the game up. So we keep resetting here to give each of us a feel. I didn’t know you get in depth through the entire trek as well!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You're welcome! Best of luck getting the campaign off the ground. I hope you find these videos helpful! :)

[@heyitsMattyP]

Sick video Bob! I wish every module came with differentiated encounters so you could run them at any level. Sometimes it's a headache taking a swing on encounter balance on the fly for a mis-leveled party, so good work breaking it down here.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thanks, Matt! Yeah sometimes I wish modules just kept it really barebones though. Like this could have said, "Hostile orcs and ogres occupy the shrine. Increase the number of orcs and attacks of the ogre based on your party's power level." Instead the authors made this formula that just doesn't work out to well. HOWEVER, being that this is a starter kit, it was probably for the best.

[@CardboardCleric]

@@BobWorldBuilder That sounds like a guide to be written - The worldbuilders guide to ajusting encounters

[@wh3nderson95]

What I did was make a totem that was similar to the one at the Logging Camp as it broke the madness over these orcs. This was a play made by Black Spider whom contracted the Wereboars to cause havoc in the region. Once the Orcs and Ogres came to their senses, they all were horrified at their actions. (Except the Ogres). In a deal with the kind cook Orc who dreams to own a thriving chimichangas food stand business were convinced by the party to leave the place and try to find a home within the Neverwinter Wood. (Turns out a local logging company needs new workers). So the bard and the sorcerer convinced the Orcs to "find a job." Even the Ogres thought the idea of getting food without being harassed by murderous adventures sounded like a cool idea to try. As a sign of good faith, the Fighter offered the golden bell to the cook Orc as the capital needed to start his business. (This Orc later has a thriving food stand business in Neverwinter AND Waterdeep. My players lost their minds when seeing the food stands and eat there often). The end of the campaign, there was a massive rager of a party in Phandelver. The nervous Necromancer from Old Owl Well came to do a light show, the Orcs and Ogres helped rebuild the town, the Manor became a frat house for a day, the Druid from Thundertree had Twig Blights do the I am Groot dance, Butterskull food was handed out, and the Forge of Spells was used to craft the first magical speakers. They listened to so many modern music, they rolled with it.

[@Dudezaawr]

Awesome tips! Loving your videos! I'll add patch of forest on the north side so my group can choose to sneak around. I'll keep the original number of orcs and ogres, but during the event a thunderstorm will swoop in, so when an orc rattles it will only alert the nearest camp because of the deafening thunder and rain.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Storms are a great addition anywhere in this module because of the tie-ins to Talos!

[@keithsato9197]

My group was supposed to do this one last night, but they got caught up in roleplay, shopping & a murder mystery in Conyberry (my Black Market location) before heading to the Shrine. They ended in the field beyond the Shrine, tried to parley but was met with a volley of arrows. Lol - I adjusted the map to have dirt mounds and holes everywhere as well to show the history of the search for gold of this place. I beefed up the forge area with the iron bell and have a smaller broken mold to hint to the hanging bell. I have 7x3rdLv party members so I kept the #'s of Orcs and Ogres. The party is good at ranged attacks and uses flanking well in melee. I've also added a catacomb/labyrinth under the Shrine- bonus if they can find it. I love the idea of the parchment clue, going to borrow that as an additional clue for the party. Thx Mr.Bob! 😄

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Murder mystery in Conyberry? Do tell! Are there wererats in this black market? Also, how big are the catacombs? That just gave me a great idea about combining this location with the Dragon Barrow quest!

[@keithsato9197]

@@BobWorldBuilder Turned Conyberry into a ruined town with seedier elements to find info/goods/consumable magic items. The Black Market Operator, Dwarf Male Cyd 'the Parrot' Sax enlists the party to get the stall rent from some deadbeats, one of which was a Potion maker that was murdered by wererats. The party discovered his shack was overturned, blood puddle on the floor, long scratch marks and strange fur (wanted to foreshadow the Mt. Toe adv). They didn't investigate very well with the other stall operators and kinda let that mystery die... oh well... The Catacombs/Labyrinth under the Shrine is about 50 rooms (standard dungeon crawl) sparsely populated, with puzzles and traps. I modified an old school module's map since it had a usable layout 'Maze of the Riddling Minotaur' about 100 rooms in that! The purpose of the maze is to house the remains of an evil champion of Bane/Cyric (forgotten realms lore drop) and a TBD artifact that can bring evil to the world. Think horcrux type item. If the party finds the maze awesome, if not they still adventure on. 😄

[@utopia2112]

"Whiskered Gang wuz here...."

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Keith Sato 50 rooms is a fair dungeon crawl. Much more than that and I personally start craving some overland travel!! Unless there are fun NPCs to meet in the dungeon!

[@Mondogolfer]

my characters got lucky and approached from the SE and got inside the shrine only having to kill 4 orcs, then they had a natural chokepoint for the rest of the attackers. We did 3 ogres and 12 orcs for a party of 5 + Raskin (NPC) was with them. They handled pretty well. Dropped a silvered dagger and silvered sword as well (for wererats)

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Awesome strategy!! And you've done your party a great service by presenting them with silvered weapons before the mine :)

[@kamilstuchlik9529]

We just ran this one on our last sesion. 5PC + Raskin, party lvl 3. So we had 15 orcs + 2 ogres. We barely survived. Right the next night while we were resting after the fight the Cryovain appeared (apparently you can just be unlucky on the die determining where the dragon actually is at the moment), proceeded to instakill our druid and almost killed my palladin. Next morning after the funeral of our fallen friend, we found the bell, unfortunately no chance to get it down or use it. So next stop in the mine to pick up some equpiment and fullfill our agreement with the strange inhabitants (free their "home" in the shrine from the orcs, so they can return there and DonJon can proceed the mining operations). We have no hints about them being wererats. We are asked for help with the great beast inthe tunnels which is attacking their leader and we are promptly ambushed by them. We surrender after killing the worm seeing they have advantage of 9 to 5 and two of us are already preatty beaten. So now my PC is held hostage and the rest of the party is trying to get the bell back to them in five days otherwise I'm gonna get killed... this is sooo fun. /s

[@emmathesheep]

I used 12 orcs, including the lookout, and 2 ogres for my party of three level 4 characters. I was still worried that they would end up dying but luckily they were very tactical. Once they’d taken out the lookout, they used the broken walls as cover to sneak around taking out small groups of enemies at a time. The rogue’s sneak attack proved very useful, as did the wizard’s sleep spell

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Ems Dudley Tactics (and the rogue’s sneak attack) certainly change the game!

[@laurenwhite838]

My player hasn’t done Mountains Toe yet and is currently at Butterskull Ranch. I may have Big Al send them to the shrine in order to finish off the orcs that ravaged his farm. Then they can find the silvered weapons the orcs used to drive off the wererats.

[@karpmageddon4155]

Since Sly Flourish was mentioned, I'd say the courtyard be an excellent opportunity for one or more of his relics. Sure it's probably been picked over but who is going to turn over every piece of crap? Certainly not orcs and ogres. As for the bell, perhaps the prophecy wasn't for the immediate future and instead for your players future. Making the prophecy no longer a waste and you have now foreshadowed an upcoming threat with a shiny. As for the altar, you could have fun with it and have whichever characters interact with it then have additional visions while they sleep. Think Harry and Voldemorts connection in Order of the Phoenix. And I don't have much to add to the encounter but what if... the ogre/hill giant was the boss after stumbling across a headband of intellect. Or maybe it's an ettin instead and you can have hilarity ensue as one head is savage and the other an intellectual. Also, good add with the scraps of armor boosting AC. Simple yet effective. 👌

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Great tips as always! I really like the additional visions idea -- definitely good to use if the party does this quest early on in the campaign

[@mcullennz]

My groups party of a land druid, assassin rogue, battle master fighter and defender warrior side kick. Went here after the first 3 quests. So level 3 Faced 2 ogres and 9 orcs. A well placed Spike Growth was the MVP

[@Chronic_Gainz]

After realizing how difficult the Circle of Thunder actually is… I decided to have the cultist take the Butterskull hostages here… so could be interesting but my three players haven’t had any problems with anything so far. Still going to have them hear rumors about the circle later. lol

[@madotom8829]

I'm currently running 2 campaigns and have just finished this quest on both. in both cases, one player from each party was from the town originally (fighter went to fight in the war, the wizard was there for the raid but got saved by a traveler who then trained him in the arcane arts) the raid was an inside job by a member of the town (the wizard's brother) and this motivated both of them for revenge. above the fireplace in S9, they found a letter saying “my darling boys, (players brother), (player). I miss you so, the orcs and trolls become more ravenous by the day. Your father, the town master decided to melt all the town's gold into the shrine’s bell for safekeeping. The monsters will soon breakthrough. We fear that before long we…” the message trails off" written on the back of a map of dragonbarrow. I had planned to have the betraying town member a prisoner of the orcs, who decided to keep him alive and suffer for his insolence (when they realized the village had no gold) but the wizard felt underwhelmed and kept saying how he wanted to murder his brother and he rolled so low on his history check (20 years ago when he last saw him) he couldn't recognize him. so I had the orc that they let live return next session on the way back to phandalin in conyberry and shapeshift into his brother (i forget the exact spell). they then had a massive wizard duel in which the necklace of fireballs came in very handy. he now feels he has completed his PC arc and wants to retire the character, as he has gotten his revenge and is fully satisfied.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

That is INCREDIBLE!! Excellent work on behalf of you for weaving that backstory so heavily into the campaign, and the player for crafting that backstory in the first place! It really shows how "local" adventurers can be an asset to the story

[@madotom8829]

@@BobWorldBuilder ​ most of my group (and myself) are first-time players/DM and I found they got a lot more into it with personal stakes, so we worked together to write him a backstory he could be interested in and I volunteered it to the fighter in the other group and he seemed keen. overall it worked well but I struggle with balance. I currently have a dwarf fighter with 22AC, ware rat lycanthropy (takes half damage) and a buttonne of magic items so going to have to try to challenge him :D.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Madotom No worries! It’s always better to make the party too powerful and have to dial it back, than for them to feel too weak. However, one PC shouldn’t be much more powerful than the others, unless everybody thinks it’s cool 👍🏻

[@aliceking756]

Here's a haiku: High, toward heaven Riches, gathered together Secret, safe, secure I wanted them to just get a LITTLE hint. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you so much for all the videos, I am a new DM and this is my first adventure, and things have gotten a lot more exciting now with some inspiration from this series. My characters are having a blast and so am I! Will you be doing Storm Lord's Wrath?

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Awesome! Storm lords wrath is already done! I didn’t run the adventure or do individual guides for all of the quests within it, but there are DM guides for all three expansion adventures :)

[@aliceking756]

@@BobWorldBuilder Oh my gosh this was the best quest yet. They wisely chose to wait until darkness fell, then they were able to sneak to the northwest tower area and plan their strategy. I only included 2 ogres and 12 orcs, with 4 of the 12 orcs coming in a second wave from inside the shrine. My wizard was able to use her spider familiar to spy out the enemy ahead of time. They then came up with a well planned and perfectly thought plan of attack including use of the Spider Climb spell cast on my pallidan by my wizard, the Dust of Disappearance, one of the necklace of fireball beads, another fireball spell, and a lightning bolt action that my fighter had from touching the altar in the Tower of Storms. Oh, and my bard hid in one of the holes. The fight was over QUICK but they had so much fun planning it for an hour beforehand, they loved it. I added a pressure plate puzzle for them to solve in front of the doors to the final room, they ended up dragging over the 1000 bell from the southeast tower to get the door open, with a final four orcs surprising them once they came in the door. My daughter pointed out that the first line of my haiku only has 4 syllables, not five. I maintain that "toward" is two, but whatever, add an "up" to the first line if you agree with her. Teenagers! Anyway, it was an awesome battle and I look forward to putting them up against an "adolescent" dragon this weekend.

[@bradystroud1675]

Had to see how others ran this encounter. I did it by the book for a lvl 3 party of 3and it was almost a TPK. I Crit a greatclub attack and it was spooooooky

[@BobWorldBuilder]

By the book is always a little less fun :P

[@tylerking4158]

This is good cause 2 of my players are looking for a shaman to help with their curses(one with a bloodhunter profane soul hexblade to try to figure out more of his curse weapon, and the other hears voices in her head.) And now they have to help the shaman clear the shrine

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Two cursed characters? I love it! I wish them the best of luck with the shaman :)

[@luffysh]

nice shirt! I think my players will not go to the shrine. I thought it is a bit dull as a "sidequest" mission, but you make it look cooler.

[@heyitsMattyP]

Good point! That is a nice shirt.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

I had the same first impression (about the shirt and the quest), and I'm glad you're reconsidering! It's a fun one! Even if you don't necessarily use it in DoIP, it could be easily plugged into other campaigns :)

[@utopia2112]

I thought so too, but one of my players heard about about shiny shiny and HAD to go see. Odd thing is, they seemed a bit in disbelief that it was "just a bell" - what, and not some hoard like an ancient dragon might have?!!! Sheesh!!

[@tallerguy]

Keep up the good work. Loving the videos.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Thank you for the support!

[@MacGuzman]

Hey man, new DM here and i wanna say this helps SO much. My party keeps skipping ahead of the story and decided to head STRAIGHT to the shrine after Phandalin... but NOT taking the Triboar Trail! They are in the woods to the east of Phandalin making a shortcut straight to the shrine. I have had trouble coming up with random encounters in the woods, and was afraid i would mess up the impending encounter at the shrine. You have no idea how much this video has helped me, i think my players will really enjoy this next session. Thank you for this :)

[@BobWorldBuilder]

I really appreciate that! I hope you all have a blast at the shrine, and feel free to let me know how it goes! :)

[@ScottB1775]

My players have already played this quest so I changed the golden bell into a golden ladder that leads to the belfry. Hopefully they will be distracted by looking for the bell that they will have to do some looking around and figuring out to find the real treasure.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Hahah that's genius!

[@CardboardCleric]

5:33 Totally agree! I saw that table and just thought my party of 4 is going to be TPKed no matter what. Once they will find their way I'll definitely throw in some rats now as my players have a history with them :) Also really hope your Icespire Hold video comes out before I get to run it.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

Icespire Hold will be the next DoIP-related video, but it will be at least another week, probably 2-3, as I have some other plans in the meantime. Definitely check out the reddit sub for Dragon of Icespire Peak for advice if my video is too late for you!

[@CardboardCleric]

@@BobWorldBuilder I had no idea there was an entire subreddit dedicated to this. Thanks again.

[@alisonplc]

My players are loving the module, dude, congrats on the content, Its been realy helpfull. IIf allows me the comment, Ita liek you're a bob ross of explaining modules (Joke unintended) Keep up the good work

[@BobWorldBuilder]

That is truly an honor. Thank you :)

[@BixLovesMiley]

I REALLY should have watched this video before letting loose 18 orcs and 4 ogres on my party of five four-level PCs. I have no idea who balanced this. Four of them succeeded in fleeing, one died (in an epic last heroic action. But still.)

[@MilanPotterSmith]

Great video but would have loved to see your encounter balancing for DM and 1 player as i play with my wife alike yourself and this is our first DND game so any help i can get on balancing would be greatly appreciated. we run with a sidekick and animal (sidekick) so there can be a bit more options with enemy numbers and tactics

[@BobWorldBuilder]

You really make a great point. While scripting I considered dropping it down to 2 PCs because I think, like you, most of my regular audience plays with 1-4 PCs (I should probably do a poll about this), but I stuck with my initial idea for time's sake, hoping that the general guidelines would be enough. That said, here's how I would try it for one character: level 1: one orc (in the tower), one ogre (half HP) level 2: two orcs (1 in tower henceforth), one ogre (half HP) level 3: two orcs, one ogre (full HP henceforth) level 4: three orcs, one ogre level 5: three orcs, one ogre (multiattack fist) level 6: four orcs, one ogre (multiattack fist/club)

[@frostxr]

I may of screwed up. The orc in tower alerted everyone in area. They managed to kill everyone. Didnt even go inside yet.

[@bobross9253]

Would a 3 PC at level 5 party still be able to take on the level 5 challenge? They is a Half orc barbarian, a drow Druid and a halfling wizard. Thanks!

[@BobWorldBuilder]

See my video about Challenge Rating! The short answer: you don't really know until you try!

[@bobross9253]

@@BobWorldBuilder Thanks!

[@WalkOnNick]

I don't think that's how passive perception works considering the DC refers to a perception check.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

It's a fairly contentious topic, but the rules designer has suggested using passive perception as a "floor" for perception checks

[@destinyhorse1172]

666 likes!?