Book vs. Broadway: Wicked, Plus the Possible Origins of the book by Gregory Maguire

[@hansbraga_]

the use of AI art is certainly a choice

[@jessa5054]

The use of passive aggressive language is certainly a choice

[@OzmaPastorius]

@@jessa5054Hard to take someone’s criticism seriously when they can’t take their own art seriously.

[@tonowari]

this entire thing could be entirely ai. the voice, the pictures, and even whats said could be a prompt from a computer. sad but it's what a lot of channels are doing just to churn out content and make a few dollars

[@RoseColoredMovies]

I wasn't going to reply to this, and just let you all have your moment to complain, but I wanted to mention a few things. First, I write, record, and create all the videos for my channel. I generate images to illustrate books that usually don't have illustrations. Second, I don't make ANY MONEY doing so. Not a dime. It actually costs me money to make these. I post for fun, and am happy that other people watch, and sometimes enjoy them.

[@sabrinaspeakeasy]

Great review! One thing, I’m a wheelchair user and we don’t say ‘bound’ to a wheelchair these days, it implies helplessness and we prefer to have our wheelchairs be consider a part of our bodies just like legs and our chairs should be respected as such.

[@RoseColoredMovies]

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind for the future. I'm kind of glad to see the term go out of style, it was a bit of a Victorian holdover. It looks like the current usage is wheelchair user, which is kind of meh. Maybe someone will come up with a cooler term for it in the future.

[@m4gg1tz]

This feels poorly researched and made. Wicked is a series of books, though the Musical ends where you've stated, McGuire's story does not, its unfair to criticize the universe it exists within when you don't know it. Seems like you're leaning pretty heavily on it's continuity to the original Wizard of Oz but the story was not written with the intent of putting a cute little bow on the universe, it is very clearly and pretty explicitly stated by McGuire himself in both the first few pages of the novel and multiple interviews that Wicked was always meant to pose the question "what do we define as 'evil'?" and Margaret Hamilton's depiction of the Wicked Witch of the West served as a basis for that. If you want an expansion on the Wizard of Oz, there's a shit ton more books from the original author that does just that. Why you might seek that out from another writer that never claimed to do such a thing is beyond me. Someone else said it too but the use of AI in this video is egregious. If you don't want to make your own compelling visuals to keep your audience entertained make a podcast.

[@PistachioDean]

“That never claimed to do so.” What? He’s literally adding on to an established world. That in itself should mean it be congruent with the original series, even (one could argue especially) in the first book. Like how Cursed Child doesn’t feel congruent with the main Harry Potter series. Poorly researched? 😂 She only needed to read two books to compare them. The original Baum and McGuire’s. She actually did more with Weetzie, and was able to find similarities between the two. You’re giving “butt hurt”

[@Legacysong2012]

​@PistachioDean that is exactly why it is poorly researched. She read Wizard of Oz, and Wicked. To properly compare, she would have needed to read: 1) The Wonderful Wizard of Oz 2) The Marvelous Land of Oz 3) Ozma of Oz 4) Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz 5) The Road to Oz 6) The Emerald City of Oz 7) The Patchwork Girl of Oz 8) TikTok of Oz 9) The Scarecrow of Oz 10) Rinkitink in Oz 11) The Lost Princess of Oz 12) The Tinman Woodman of Oz 13) The Magic of Oz 14) Glinda of Oz Then she would need to watch the 1939 MGM Wizard of Oz, and then read Wicked

[@m4gg1tz]

@@PistachioDean Not even a big wicked fan, I read the books when i was 13 after seeing the musical, only thing I have to be "butt hurt: about is the AI slop people put online to excuse for content.

[@m4gg1tz]

@@PistachioDean Also I fear that you might not understand literature as well as you believe if you can't separate two stories from two different authors that serve two different purposes just because they have the same name and characters.

[@PistachioDean]

@ there’s a high horse you’re riding that I just need you to climb down from lol. It’s rather a simple concept: if you’re writing a book that complements an already established lore, make sure it follows that. Idk how you missed that

[@Jays6926]

Um the wizard sends a 12 year old to kill a wicked witch. In the rest of the series; it’s hinted he killed Ozma’s dad to gain power. He’s known as a con man.

[@ste11avision]

I would retitled this "My opinions on Wicked: Book vs. Broadway". I expected this to be more informative/point-by-point comparison about what people who have only experienced one medium can expect from the other (ie. people who have only seen the musical who are curious in the book vs. people who have only read the book who are going to see the movie). This really just felt like you giving your opinion on why you don't like them, and I wouldn't have wasted my time if I knew it was just going to be you dismissing the ideas without really critically engaging with them because you don't personally connect with it. I've never read the original Oz books, but honestly this take re: Wicked specifically feels kinda lazy and reductive to me. Even just by looking at the Garland film for reference, which was Maguire's original inspiration point, the Wizard is clearly a fraud who amasses power and is labeled "Wonderful" by people who blindly praise and believe in him. He's a corrupt figurehead who has an entire glorious city built around him to maintain an elaborate lie. He IS a villain; that wasn't a reach. The point of Wicked is to critically examine the way that public perception and even media can influence society's idea of what "good" and "evil" are and how we often only see one side of the story and make assumptions. There are MANY classic stories that are inspired by another source material and then take diversions. Dante's Inferno is technically fanfiction. Many Shakespearean works were technically fanfiction. And that's what Wicked is. As a fan, you look at a story you deeply love, you see the possibility for more meaning and depth, and sometimes you fill in the blanks. It's been a very valid form of story writing since stories began. Hating Wicked for not being The Wizard of Oz is weird. The choices made in the book and musical might seem politically overwrought at times, but they've got a pretty solid basis where the allusions remain applicable to many periods and issues facing the real world. The Animal/animal rights bit was actually what got me interested in reading the book when I first heard of it (from my sister who is obsessed with anything Oz). The musical is very clever in examining the words "Good" "Great" "Wonderful" "Wicked" etc. and how they can be manipulated. It IS subversive, and your audible eyerolling glazes over how meaningful that concept is. There are certainly things I myself would change about the book and the musical both, but this feels really dismissive. That may be because I'm particularly fascinated with real-world media impact, the role of media and the responsibility we have in how we discuss real people/current events because of how those things influence overall societal understanding of complex situations. Wicked is a great illustration of that.

[@Caeljharden]

THIS. Everything you said is 10000000% correct and I wish I could press the like button on your comment 100 more times.

[@Skorpio1121]

Well thank you for saying everything I was thinking!

[@nikoking825]

In the actual novel "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" the Wicked Witches of the Easf and West are not sisters. After the last king of Oz dies, four wicked witches take over the North, South, East and West, but the Good Witch of the North and Glinda overthrow the wicked witches in the North and South.

[@missanne2908]

It's interesting that Ozma's ancestors die, but Ozma and the (native) inhabitants end up being immortal in the later books. It is told in _The Tin Woodman of Oz_ that the fairy band of Queen Lurline enchanted the country, making it a fairyland and its inhabitants immortal, but it is never said when this happened. Also, one of Lurline's fairies was left to rule Oz. The cannon of the Oz books can be confusing to say the least.

[@rogvortex58]

I still consider the original Wizard from the Oz books to be deceitful. He kidnapped Ozma when she was a baby because he wanted to rule without the royal family getting in the way.

[@Legacysong2012]

One of your open statements is misleading. The lore for Maguire's story comes from the entire series by Baum, not just the first book, and mixed with stuff from the movie. His series addresses so much from the overall series, including characters that appear later on but not in the first Baum book.

[@cooperminion825]

This was such an oversimplified description of both the book and the musical

[@hdervish2497]

The book? Mediocre??? The musical is a lobotomized version of a fantastic story.

[@doveamor]

Ok I wouldn’t say that, I think the musical stands great on its own fr, it is its own story based on the book-

[@mirrormarvel5751]

can you please by careful on how you use AI art

[@m4gg1tz]

this. it's so hard to take someone's criticism of another work seriously when they themselves are putting minimal effort into their own work.

[@RealityArtPod]

​@@m4gg1tz honestly who cares this video isnt about the visuals.

[@RazorRevenge]

No one cares

[@TigerGemini98]

@@RazorRevengewell you got ratio-d so clearly people are disagreeing w your statement

[@RazorRevenge]

@@TigerGemini98 let me rephrase then. *I* don’t care 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@ReiXMinako23]

Wicked the musical itself is serviceable. Its legacy makes it legendary.

[@adrimiq]

I love and agree with every point you've made in this!! I would add that the sad thing about McGuire's book is that it sort of behaves as if the original Oz book was "inferior" for having a more "wonder-like" worldbuilding. As if it needed to have a "realistic" or "grounded" setting. The original book by L.F. Baum already features an amazing, unique world, and its oneiric qualities are exactly what makes it a stand-out. Also, the big victim in all of this is Dorothy... I feel like the movie with Judy Garland already diminished a lot from her character. Even if she does have a special role in the "Wicked" book, the story feels so condescendant towards her.

[@PistachioDean]

Wicked is to Wizard of Oz as Cursed Child is to Harry Potter. I like the musical. But I just feel like it diminishes the wicked witch’s death by having her come back to life in the end. She was a straight up villain enslaving Winkies in the original books, but they made her too sympathetic in Wicked, that it never totally feels like she’s evil in the end. Like if they made Voldemort just a quirky misunderstood young guy who came back to life after Harry Potter killed him.

[@jessmess13]

The movie “Oz the great and powerful” seems to be what you are looking for as far as an origin story for the Wicked Witch of the West. In that movie, her name is Theadora and she falls in love with Oz right after his hot air balloon lands him in Oz. He is deceived into going to kill Glinda by The real wicked witch, Theadora’s sister. Theadora’s broken heart drives her to take a bite of a poison apple prepared by her sister to make her heart wither away. This is when her skin turns green, her appearance changes, and she becomes even more wicked than her sister. It’s a great movie, and in my opinion, a fun one that ties the land of Oz and the original story together very well. I personally love the book Wicked. I thought that it was a fresh take on the story of Oz. I have yet to see the musical or movie, so I would have appreciated a more side by side comparison of the two.

[@jamesonstalanthasyu]

The Broadway show lightens up the politics from the Baum book and from the Mcguire book. I think if you read any (2-14) of the rest of the Oz books by Baum as an adult could easily find the politics that Maguire expanded into his version.

[@Nightman221k]

I wish that the book had more in common with the L. Frank Baum books or the Wizard of Oz movie. The book’s world is so unrecognizable as being the same place that it really just feels like “craptastic debauchery world” without any whimsy and with little connection to the enchanting Oz of the source material. The musical is better but I did feel like the story drops off in the second act where things get rushed. Hopefully the movie being two parts with remedy that aspect. I love the original L. Frank Baum books so it’s kind of a shame that they are rarely adapted and modern adaptations ignore their lore which was really well done and full of charm.

[@Legacysong2012]

@@Nightman221k it has a lot in common with the 14 Baum books, with the 1939 movie mixed in

[@RoseColoredMovies]

"Craptastic debauchery world" is my favorite take from anyone so far about the Maguire book. Kind of sums up my opinion of the book, tbh. I'm amazed how many people were willing to defend his book, given how bad it is.

[@mathildehb0076]

Many say the plot of Nessarose being enchanted to walk, is abelistic. People interpret this as that Nessarose has to change to be good enough, especially for love, but this is just an interpretation. She obviously wanted to walk all along, and was mad at Elphaba for not helping her

[@DocumentMedic]

I have to agree, I always had issues with "Wicked," mainly because "Wicked" changed many of the characters' backstories .This also happened to a lesser extent in the "The Wizard of Oz" (Glinda and possibly the Tin Man), but it is less obvious . As a huge fan of the book (which my dad read to me before I watched the movie), I find the changes in "Wicked" a bit sacrilegious, more so than in the 1939 film (eg, as far as I am concerned, the Wicked Witch of the West melted. She did not escape through a trap door and plan to leave Oz with the scarecrow. Moreover, the scarecrow was created by a Munchkin farmer; he is not Fiero. Also, the Tin Man's real name is Nick Chopper, not Boq Woodsman. I could go on about the Tin Man, but I won't ). That said, I do appreciate the attempt to develop the Wicked Witch of the West as a more in depth character in "Wicked" (primarily because she is one of my favorite characters in the 1939 movie), and I think that the music in "Wicked" is as great as the 1939 movie.

[@ranuelthebard3751]

I hated the book so much I couldn't even finish it. I ended up skipping around to see if it got better and then giving up. I hated it so much I had absolutely no interest in seeing the musical even after seeing a performance on the Tony awards that I really enjoyed. It's only been since the publicity around the movie convinced me that the musical is about as faithful to the book as the book was to Baum that I've reconsidered. I would love it if someone followed your ideas for a story that actually had something to do with the plot and characters from The Wizard of Oz where the Witch is a tragic figure. I'd even like a Maleficent type revamp. Just not more tawdry (perfect word for it) soap opera crap with unsympathetic characters being terrible to each other.

[@sharennyberg7795]

I loved the musical and like you hated the books. Lots of questions to ponder in your video. Thanks

[@gregjohnson7270]

I misspelled his name Maguire, but I can't find any evidence that he contacted Lia Block and submitted an outline or even more character details to get her permission to publish his book Wicked.

[@Legacysong2012]

@gregjohnson7270 He didn't, because his book is based off of the 14 Baum books mixed with the 1939 movie

[@meganshaw1987]

I don’t have the exact same opinion. While the movie is enjoyable, after reading Wicked I can’t say that I see the characters from Oz half as innocently as I used to (especially The Wizard and Glinda) but I think that’s a good thing as it makes you see things from a new perspective.

[@kennethdesmondmosley1075]

She does not end up as the bad guy in the end. She is a patriot crying out against an evil desperate and she gets labeled wicked by the people that are on his side that's the point.

[@LeadrynMcKrotch]

Getting tired of people wanting to throw out the sex club me even though that scene was to explore male sexual trauma. And tidbit finding her and telling her how he felt so abandoned and unsupported by his friends after that traumatic event was what sent her on her literal guilt trip to leave the convent and make omeneds Seeing how many people say they wish the author had just thrown that out of wasn't important or needed are showing their double standards

[@Darkyugi92]

That’s why you gotta read the other three books, young lady

[@clynneable]

There are actually 5 books by L. Frank Baum about Oz. So I would say the book Wicked is very similar to in setting.

[@ste11avision]

There are 14 books by Baum! My sister has read them all. (There were additional Oz books published after Baum's death by another author.)

[@Legacysong2012]

@@clynneable 14 by Baum, and then more by other authors

[@rachejakedman]

As I listen to your description of the book I started to feel sick listening to your version of how the story went. I am not committed to listening to anymore. I think your opinion is in a very small group of people who didn’t understand this very sweet funny book and very great broadway story with a great movie. You are a person missing the point of this story.

[@williamdogan1149]

The Broadway show left me disappointed. I could not get over the premise..

[@Sweetmelissaaah]

You have a nice voice for videos

[@Wh1msicalpickle]

The AI art is awful, and not in keeping. If you put no effort into that, why would I be inclined to listen to your opinion? Just makes me think you have no competency on the subject. I listened anyway. Very poorly researched.

[@harnarius]

oof the AI art is not it

[@gregjohnson7270]

I haven't read McGuire's book Wicked and I liked the Wicked stage play, especially the music. I also enjoyed the Wicked movie and it's interesting that you brought in the book I've never heard of, Weetzie Bat by Lia Block. Do you happen to know if Lia Block has gone after McGuire for stealing themes and characters and character development from her book. I'll google it. Thanks again for your review.

[@Legacysong2012]

@gregjohnson7270 No, because he didn't take anything from her books. Everything in his series was taken from the 14 Baum books and the 1939 movie

[@Tanneroo]

I’ve read the book and seen the Broadway show. The book was a depressing slog. And the play was meh. The production and acting great! Story only took the lovey dovey stuff from the story and made a musical.

[@adamgray267]

I couldn't disagree more! When I first heard the music and saw the KZbin clips, I thought I would love the musical. Then I saw it and was disappointed with the story. Then I read the book, and thought it was amazing. Different and better. It was like it was saying, "Hey, the Wizard of Oz story was a lie. Here's what really happened!" And it became a believable universe. However, I did not at all like the three books that came after: boring, long winded, and pandering to a millennial audience. The author never intended to write those books, and he never should have bent to the pressure to do so. They were awful in every way. They will never be movies, unless Hollywood simply wants to screw up... again. My hope now is that Wicked the movie will fix the musical by bringing in some of the elements from the book... which will add substance to an otherwise hollow book. (For those who don't know, the "book" of a musical is the story and script at the core of the musical. The book of Wicked has weaknesses, by the music is excellent.)

[@Legacysong2012]

@adamgray267 while true that the rest of the series doesn't quite match the original one, other than the 4th Out of Oz that is a really good match, it is still a great series. The sequel trilogy is also really good

[@AzureWrath-ym6ih]

Mediocre?... This video is mediocre 🤦

[@carlpacheco2058]

The musical is a lot of fun, the book is trash - I read it in high school before I saw the show and I absolutely hated it, it dragged on and on and on.

[@littlefinger5199]

Y’all are so me cry babies! JEEZUZ!

[@getu1312]

This is the whitest review of wicked lol

[@priscilardc]

Humm, this was more your opinions and take aways than anything else. Sorry, not good.

[@Nodosaur]

Sorry, but the AI art…I gotta bow out after 1 1/2 min. Id rather a black screen over anything ai. Even a crudely drawn image would be funnier than these no more than 30 second prompted ai arts that barely fit the subject.

[@tayloredwards9144]

Please do the lion king movie vs broadway

[@kaitlynschneider3154]

Why even make this video?

[@taylorl.9875]

starting off weak with the ai art...