Boonlake Roundtable Review - Friendly Ties Podcast

[@paulweiwang4533]

I really like the intros from Anastasia, and Nick. Even though this podcast is featured on your channel, the varied intros really make it feel like the collaborative effort that it truly is.

[@JonGetsGames]

That's so awesome to hear. We had a conversation near the end of 2021 and decided we should rotate who starts and ends the show, since we accidentally had it be me for the first many episodes. We wanted it to feel more collaborative so it's great to hear that this change worked as intended :)

[@peterfleming9365]

This discussion, along with watching John’s Learn to Play Boon Lake video are extremely informative, and I thank you all for this content.

[@TheBigScreenTv21]

@ 44:50 Nick talks about games with “Oomphy” and brave design choices. I would love ot hear what games you guys think have those brave design choices

[@squidandwhale3395]

Good question. I think I'll struggle to articulate it so I'll give you a crappy answer and follow with some examples. I think a brave game design choice tries to do something that you dont often see, or possibly hasn't existed. Obviously this definition is deeply limited to my experience and I know the issue of "everything is derivative from something" kinda makes that hard. Brave also doesnt always mean balanced, good, or even fun. But let's try. A favorite of mine, sidereal confluence makes the brave choice of "what if everything was on the table for trade?" Risk legacy, love or hate legacy mechanics (I love), I think the choice to make a game that isnt ultimately replayable is very brave. Above and below is a game I like well enough but it has a ton of flaws, it attempts to mix story and euro management together. Archipelago for both its semi cooperative structure and bizarre turn order rules. Siberian rails for a game where everything you built can get consumed by the NPC. Similarly, Pan Am for the devouring NPC. Nyctophobia for I think pretty obvious reasons. I could go on for awhile and you could dispute any of the above, but hopefully that's a good starting point!

[@jareduxr]

I don’t see it as very brave either but it does have more innovation than say, Ark Nova (also seems great). The scoring tiles are pretty innovative for instance but I also get what you are saying because it’s not very bold. Like doubling the scoring tiles negative points would make it bolder. The resource mechanism is fairly innovative. The action rondel is a bolder version of Praga’s, with mutual benefits and a few things to consider. The different buildings seem like a milder inspiration of Gaia Project. The cards seem pretty mild compared to Maracaibo. So I get what you mean when you say it’s kind of ‘tame’ in some of its design choices. Supposedly there was a campaign at some point that added twists over plays and that was cut out. I do kind of question some of the publisher/editor’s decisions like this. It seems like they had too much power in the creative process but maybe I’m wrong. All that said still excited by the title.

[@JonGetsGames]

It had occured to me that Boonlake would have been the better game to have Maracaibo's campaign system. I tried it abit with Maracaibo, but it was easiest jsut to stick with the "medium" setup and play from there. Boonlake on the other hand, is one I think I'd always do the campaign for to spice things up just abit (if one existed).

[@brazillb2]

Interested to try this one. I really enjoy these deep dive discussions! Keep em coming!

[@tc3p]

Recently ordered this one, it has a lot of things that intrigue me.

[@UpUrPlay]

Hey there Jon, big fan of this series! I've been playing Boonlake a lot, and I'm just going to say that once people learn that moving fast is very important, games won't look that similar from play to play. Focusing is very important, and a strong strategy is needed. It was cool to hear your opinions on the game, most of the time I relate to Nick's impression the most ;)

[@Marky-by4zv]

I have seen a playthrough of the game and what I noticed is that this game becomes deeper for more experienced players. The outcomes for most beginner games looks like everyone has accomplished so much due to them dragging the game for too long. I think this is a deeper game if more experienced players showcase how competitive and nuiced this game can be if they rush towards the end. I think this game is intended to be ended as soon as the better player is able to set up a solid strategy, denying an unprepared player during interim scoring vital points. I think this game really shines if you compare it to Kanban EV, only without Sandra. The game rewards skillful balance between engine build, interim scoring and final scoring.

[@JonGetsGames]

Thanks for the insights. Unfortunately, I haven't come back to this game in the last 6 months or so. I certainly wouldn't mind doing so, just so many other games to play.

[@jacobjslee]

I appreciate this discussion, but I prefer your review format more only because you always do such a terrific job with your reviews. I am intrigued by Boonlake so I've been listening to this discussion with interest. I like Maracaibo, but the one big thing that has bothered me from the start is the "combat" system. You highlighted it in your Maracaibo review, so I was initially excited. In practice, it was the only thing that disappointed me and it is, unfortunately, a significant part of the game. I sold it recently (still worth good coin) and I've been eyeing this one now.

[@firebound12]

The Maracaibo expansion changed the combat system completely. You might want to see if it's more of your liking.

[@plutocracy8083]

Boonlake is such a fantastic game, we love it in our group. Is it Mr. Pfisters masterpiece? Difficult to tell, I also love Maracaibo. Both games are very different. Time will tell.

[@Gakraemer86]

A little confused by the criticism that it is too perfect. Anastasia's last comment about wanting to find something she can work and be proud of almost sounds like she wishes the game was broken in some way she could find and exploit. I have played the game, and find that its balance provides a very tactile experience. Constantly having to shift strategies to accomplish everything. I also think that if there wasn't a "bartender" there cutting you off, then runaway leaders would be a huge problem.

[@squidandwhale3395]

I cant speak for the others but I'd argue that this game is tactical and not strategic (for my given definitions of tactics and strategy). Its balance means what you're doing to win is little edges here and there. For me, and I believe for the others as well, a little more wriggle room to do something truly exciting allows for more ownership and enthusiasm over a part of the game. Each of us quite like boonlake, but my preference is something that falls more on the strategic side.

[@shanerion]

@@squidandwhale3395 I like a good balance, but too much a strategic experience makes games very hard to win for anyone but the most experienced player at the table. For me an example of a game leaning too far towards strategic would be Gaia Project. The best players will see the starting board state, round scoring tiles, and end game scoring tiles, and will have basically the entire game planned out before even moving the first piece. Whoever can most closely get the game to play out towards their totally pre-scripted plan will usually win. This requires being able to think ahead to the last round before you’ve even placed your first piece. And I like Gaia project, but I think that’s maybe leaning towards too much strategy. Boonlake is definitely leaning more towards tactical, but I think I’d prefer that than leaning too far towards strategic.

[@whothennow24]

@@squidandwhale3395 I feel dumb asking, but what's the difference between a strategy and a tactic?

[@cherimcheradedo]

Great episode, btw

[@the_luggage]

So it's a game mainly about cows, understood, thanks! ;p

[@J-Wheeler-G]

Looks like they should have named it BoonCow.

[@powerfade11]

Definitely think it would be helpful to put faces to the voices - maybe a pic of each of you with name underneath - is it possible?

[@JonGetsGames]

At this point my cohosts aren't comfortable going beyond audio, so that's what we are sticking with.

[@cherimcheradedo]

Mixed feelings about this one. Did not play it yet. When I first saw, I couldnt see anything exciting. Then I saw the playthrough and thought that, maybe, I was wrong... Then I heard this discussion and, besides all three really enjoyed, all the things they discussed made me feel that this game maybe is to nice to players. I like games that I need to work hard to play well like in Mombasa, that I can be proud of my play that I I was planning 2, 3 rounds earlier. It seems that in Boonlake, dont matter what you do, the result will be almost the same and seems that the game plays you istead of you playing the game, and that is the worst. It seem that it only gives you micro positives reinforcments, thats why its pleasant to play, but when try to analyze, you realize that you maybe dont like it... (ps: sorry for my english)

[@shanerion]

Unnecessarily aggressive to say the game is for lazy people. I don’t know any lazy people who are willing to put in the work to learn a game of this weight and then spend the 2-3 hours playing it.

[@cherimcheradedo]

Sorry, when I read now I agree that it was ofensive. I will edit, and thank you for this warning. Sorry Jon if it was offensive.