Born Again Pentax K1 Mark II vs K3 Mark III Monochrome

[@swedishdriller]

Nice to see that you’re back on the Pentax wagon 😃 Loved your old Pentax videos that you did a few years ago! 👍

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

$2200 Monochrome sensor camera is hard to beat...

[@stevejoyce3225]

Great video Edward. So refreshing for a video not to be overwhelmed by full blast music over the commentary, and when you do put some music (proper music) in, it is adding to the video not detracting from it. Interesting to hear your views on the K3iii mono which I am just about to splash out on.

[@jonuiuc]

Man the side by side really shows the difference.

[@highestsprings]

I am enjoying your new journey with Pentax. Your videos influenced me to get into the Pentax system years ago. It's nice to see you finding some new found love. The cameras certainly pull the creativity out of photography. Good to see the comparisons between the cameras. That monochrome sensor is doing the business.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

I've always enjoyed using Pentax cameras. Back in the 90's I subcontracted a lot of weddings using a couple of Pentax 645's. It was easy to give the monochrome a go as I already had all the lenses. Contrary to what some keyboard warriors want to think, I never switched from Pentax, I only stopped using them as my main system. I shoot what I want to shoot, be that Pentax, Fuji, Chamonix 4x5 or Intrepid 8x10. I'll be using it all for the foreseeable future. It's really only the rabid fanboys that get their panties wadded up over it... And Pentax does seem to ignore the trendy nonsense and force you to concentrate on just making good photographs. It's one of the things I always liked about the brand. 🙂👍👍

[@RonnieAshlock]

The K3 Monochrome images are amazing. Pentax nailed it. Thanks for documenting what you are discovering with this camera.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

Sure thing. It's a lot of fun actually. I think I'm going to compare the K3M against my 8x10 film camera loaded with FP4+. Really only because I can and it might be interesting... :)

[@pamelahooper7851]

Those B&W photos really are calming. Might try some using custom-image to see what I get. Thanks for inspiration.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

Are you a fan of Michael Kenna's work? If not, he is the Master of the calming black and white. 🙂👍

[@RayLombardi]

Wow! The difference between those two pictures of the Christmas tree is incredible. I wish all manufacturers had a monochrome option!...at a reasonable price too! LOL. Cheers for the video Ed!

[@KobieMC]

Glad to see another vid man! Even monochrome converted cameras have better tonality than color filter cameras. The K-3 III monochrome is the real deal and as you said, the price is actually attainable for mere mortals (compared to the only alternative Leica cameras).

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

HI Kobie, I would think the converted cameras that had the color filter pack removed would be pretty much the same as the K33M is. I know Clyde Butcher the large format black and white photographer from Florida is shooting a converted Fuji. 👍👍

[@jose9630]

you have very good perspective your eye for composition is beautiful

[@cnicolo]

Hi Ed, very interesting comparison, I would have loved one more shot, with FujiFilm set with Acros green filter on the Christmas tree. But is enough beautiful as it is, and I don’t want to give you to much work. Thank you have a nice Sunday

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

I would have done it if I had the Fuji with me... 🙂👍👍

[@robertsaunders5740]

K3 monochrome, Building at 14:17 with sign, is much sharper than the converted. that is the bricks and mortars. The ornaments are no comparison K3 monochrome wins.

[@robertsaunders5740]

I do now see a need to carry an extra camera set for monochrome of black vehicles at car shows and museums.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

And that's without any post processing on the K3M shots and me tweaking the K1 shots to get them looking presentable. 🙂 SOOC, it's night and day, with the Color converted shots looking very flat.

[@ashleyblack327]

@@EdwardMartinsPhotography Out of interest, have you tried using the in-camera conversion to monochrome via playback - digital filters - monochrome that's resident in the K1 and your K5 and compare that image to the DXO one. I've always loved this facility with Pentax cameras, something that's missing in my Fujis as I don't have any computer editing programs other than Snapseed.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

@@ashleyblack327 I have not tried that. I will look into it. Thanks.

[@bittertruth6175]

Fully agree. K3 Monochrome is far ahead in Dynamic range and low noise. A true reflection of old days film photography. Your conclusion is also endorsed by a few other photographers. Thank god, I mostly sold (and selling) my 35 years of Canon accumulation.

[@sdhute]

Pentax is sure finding its niche instead of competing with everyone else. DSLR, Monochome sensor, and soon film cameras. They even released the last wg90 camera with the Pentax name instead of the usual Ricoh branding. I’d pair that k3 with the 20-40

[@huxleymiller2022]

Ed, so glad you're back. A question on tonality. When we used to shoot black and white film, we would adjust the tonality by say adding a yellow filter to darken the sky, or a green filter to lighten foliage. Some of the monochrome photos I see on their internet are really spectacular, but I can't tell whether people are adding filters the way we used to. One of the advantages of a color sensor is that a filter is just a click away. If I get a Pentax monochrome, will I need to buy yellow filters for all my lenses?

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

The monochrome sensor is not sensitive to colors at all, so there are no digital filters available. You can adjust tonality the old fashioned way with it by using the colored filters in front of the lens. I would recommend the inexpensive Cokin set that gives you green, yellow, orange and red all in a nice pouch. I have the 100mm Z set and I'm thinking of buying the standard 85mm P set too. They work great but are a little fragile, but they're cheap so you can replace them if you need to.

[@JimsPhotographyArt]

Nice pics, I really like the first one you shown of the trees with the lamp post. The K3 B&W's surely look the best, just better tones and depth. The K3 looks more 3D too. I spent the day in the junkyard with the GFX50SII and it is honestly the best stills camera I've ever owned. I shot all day with the Pentax-A 645 75mm f/2.8 lens, what an awesome lens! I had the GF 35-70 and GF 45 with me and didn't even use them. The Pentax 75mm was a bit tight for what I'm used to but it's so good I made it work. I could almost leave this Pentax 75mm lens permanently on this camera.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

Pentax lenses have always been way underrated. Here's a tip for you: one of the best lenses ever made was the Pentax 645 35mm. It was awesome. (I hope I didn't just drive up the prices on that one... if I ever have the dosh to throw around and get a GFX that would be one of my first choices.)

[@JimsPhotographyArt]

@@EdwardMartinsPhotography I have the Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5 lens and absolutely love it. It's sharp edge to edge like the 75 and I use it often for landscapes. I like the 45mm too but the 35mm like you said is the best wider angle. The 150mm is awesome too. If I'm shooting Pentax-A 645 lenses on the GFX the 35, 75, and 150 are absolutely my 3 favorites and basically the only 3 I really like to use. I usually just take the 35 and 75.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

@@JimsPhotographyArt Cool. That 35mm is a great lens!

[@RichardBO9]

Great video, Ed. The images out of your K3 look phenomenal. Since you are shooting mainly landscapes, what advantage do you believe you get with a K1 over a K3iii color?

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

Thanks! It is a very interesting camera. It's like film but different. I want to try some low light stuff with it. Not sure if the lack of grain will be a plus or a minus, but definitely worth trying. 👍👍

[@adrianleskiw6748]

Throw that sensor in the GR III and I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[@allonwne]

That’s an interesting idea. That might sell like crazy if they could make the price reasonable.

[@johnmarten4184]

If you are happy with APS you could save some with a K3-2. If you're happy with 16MP then you could save a bundle with a K5-2 or K5. If you don't mind a lesser body then K-70 or KS-2. Like xmeda I also wonder about Pentax's future, but I don't worry. I have M43 for travel and pocket-wear and Pentax APS because that's what I like, 16-24MP is all I'll ever need, or have.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

I wish they still made the KP. I'd buy one of those, and I just might start looking for a used one. But I really enjoy the K1 Mark II, and I would always want to have one of those if I'm shooting Pentax. (Until the Mark III comes along in the next 10 years...)

[@matthewp7428]

Some nice shots! Keep feeding this pentax food 😂

[@RoastBeefSandwich]

The difference really is striking when you compare a straight monochrome conversion to a monochrome capture. As you said, the monochrome capture's tones and contrast are like film. To me, even better than a scan of film. Love it. I agree with someone else - if Pentax put that sensor in a new GR camera I'd buy it. I don't want to go back to Pentax and re-buy that system, I'm happy with my Canon mirrorless now. But a monochrome GR could be just what the doctor ordered. Next we have to see how the monochrome camera responds to red, yellow, orange filters - and how IR sensitive is it?

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

I've taken 1 image with a red filter and it responded like I would have expected. But I have read that an orange filter behaves more like a yellow filter, so I think it is a little different than your typical film b&w. So something to figure out and get used too. At least medium format resolution, film tonality, no dust to worry about, and no noise (grain) at high iso's, definitely a winner.

[@Emma-zk6it]

The pentax monochrome seems to be a beautiful camera but for the that price you can shoot a lot of BW film in medium format.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

I agree. Though I'm not sure it's the same thing. There aren't any 12,800 iso films with no grain. 🙂👍👍

[@ShawnGehlsen]

Any idea if Pentax plans on upgrading the K-1ii in 2024 or 2025?

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

No idea, but I very much doubt it.

[@barryedge4446]

Surely Ed, the point of the final image is to represent the photographers "view". So taking a K-1 RAW file and with careful and sensitive editing I'm not at all sure the Christmas decoration could not be made to be just as pleasing as from the Monochrome. I say pleasing as it would be different to the Monochrome version, but to the viewer in a "blind" comparison who would know? They don't have to be able to produce an identical output, just as pleasing an image as possible. The K-1 is an outstanding tool to capture image data that can be subsequently processed - it's so tolerant as you'll know. I do struggle with comparisons like this as nowadays post processing, as opposed to running it through an automatic process, can only ever be subjective, as was/is wet processing. Dunno how you make a video to compare to cameras with this mindset, though ...

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

As pleasing as the K1 b&w image may be, it's just not the same thing. The K3IIIM is replicating film digitally. The K1 is not. The nth degree of tonal variation is built into the K3IIIM, and any color filter sensor camera just can't achieve that look no matter how you post process it. B&W with a color sensor camera is a computer simulation of what b&w should look like. The K3IIIM is b&w. All I have been trying to do these past few weeks is determine if the K3IIIM is worth investing in and shooting with. It is for me and alongside the K1 Mark II which I use for color. But it is an Nth degree kind of thing and remember I still use 4x5 and 8x10 for my b&w as well so I may be a little more obsessed than the average photographer. 🙂

[@barryedge4446]

@@EdwardMartinsPhotography Well, Ed, "so I may be a little more obsessed than the average photographer". Somehow I doubt it. I suppose it all depends on what the photographer is aiming for. Like you, (I'm guessing) a photo isn't finished until it is printed. Up to that point it is subject to all sorts of uncalibrated devices, so any nuance of tone and hue etc is somewhat meaningless. I'll stick to my point that the arbitrator is the viewer who doesn't care what camera/lens. I would expect I will process my K3iiiM if/when I buy it, so it will end up looking quite different from the initial capture from the real 3D world. Pleased you are supporting Pentax so positively, by the way. Your material cropped up in PentaxForums where I came across your channel for the first time.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

@@barryedge4446 Let me add to my original comment: the K1 is a great camera. It is honestly the best FF camera I've used considering all factors. And it's interesting that in the 7 years since it's been released, the other manufacturers still are screwing around trying to make something mirrorless as competent. (JMHO and the Nikon D850 is probably even better, but Nikon doesn't make a monochrome.) And I agree with you it's the prints that are where the rubber meets the road. I wish there was a way to show you the K3IIM's prints. My wife who is not a photographer per se, but has been looking at my prints, digital and darkroom for 25 years saw the difference straight away. She's the one who commented that the digital B&W prints "look like newspaper photos." And what she meant was the subtle gradations in tonality are being squashed in the color to b&w conversion process in the bayer color filter cameras. The K3IIIM doesn't suffer from this at all. Like I said she saw it straight away. As for Pentax forums, I lurk there a lot and read most everything posted, but I don't post there. Every time I have posted there in the past I got jumped and then the moderators piled on as well. It was so bad a few of the moderators followed me to my channel and started leaving nasty comments on all my videos and are banned from my channel. One of them even started emailing me to fight with me. LOL. I will private message someone up there from time to time if I can help someone directly though. It's the old story 90% of the people up there are great people, 10% are schmucks that ruin it for everyone else, and unfortunately a lot of the moderators are the schmucks. My history with Pentax goes back to 1982 and I shot a lot of weddings in the 90's with 2 Pentax 645's. I was the only guy using them, and everyone was amazed how fast I was... The Bride's loved it. 1/2 an hour for all the formals at a typical wedding while everyone else needed 2 hours. 🙂

[@barryedge4446]

@@EdwardMartinsPhotography Ed, sad to hear the PF issues. I've been on the forum for years and was aware of the very occasional issues but not the type of reaction you've experienced. Re the actual printed photos you refer to I'll have to take your word for it - I don't doubt it, just unless I get my paws on a Monochrome I will never know. To be honest though, even if I did get hold of one I'd probably just get on and use it. I tend to be more project based nowadays where the single and perfect image is largely irrelevant. For several years I sold my work at exhibitions (often invited) etc., plus some commercial work (eg real estate) where obvious , to me, flaws were never noticed by my customers, only by other photographers who just loved to tell me what I was doing wrong - especially with their noses inches away from an A1 print. Made me smile. I always thanked them for their observation (=advice :-) ) I'll keep an eye on your channel. All the best Barry.

[@allonwne]

Interesting info about the forum. I got kicked off the Dutch Pentax forum for ‘selling’ 100 120 transparency films when I switched to digital. I was selling them for 0. i.e. giving them away. They were freezer stored and not old. The RULES stated that I did not have enough posts!⁠@@EdwardMartinsPhotography

[@xmeda]

The main problem is, that in the meantime while experimenting with FF Ricoh almost killed whole Pentax market presence, all 3rd party AF lenses are no longer produced or offered and prices are reaching higher and higher. And also Ricoh own development is now barely existing. They discontinued all the external flashes. 645 line is dead. K mount FF will follow. There is no K1 replacement in sight and will make no sense either, because there is not enough market for such camera. Existing K1II are just old stock being cleared. Moreover here in mid Europe even the normal K3III is more expensive than Fuji XT-5 and the price is very close to fresh Fuji X-H2. But K3III is few years old camera already and has some drawbacks like fixed LCD, small buffer, weak video, weak live-view etc. And when they introduced monochrome, it went even above. Another joke was 2016 KF reintroduced recently as "new" KF. So even with K3III mono being one of affordable monochrome cameras on market, the potential market for it is very small once small pool of remaining pentaxians and few experimentators is covered. Kmount system is far from being competitive alternative to all other systems. Also Tamron already stopped production of all the FF DSLR lenses, so source for DFA15-30/2.8, DFA24-70/2.8 and DFA70-210/4 will be gone soon and we can expect that these will be discontinued soon. Then the FF line is done. Maybe the APS-C part can still be saved, but Ricoh is doing nothing to keep sales and market presence. Instead of many missing lenses we only see some re-introduced lenses like FA limited line with new coating, FA35/2 and FA50/1.4 with cosmetic modifications, hair of improvement on DFA100/2.8 and thats about it. And recent news about financial balance only suggest that they reduced department spending by firing some more R&D to keep financial balance. That has short time effect, but causes unretrievable damage in long run.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

Pentax is what it is. Everything will eventually come to an end including Nikon, Canon, Sony etc. Right now, Pentax is offering a camera that no else is, and the rest of the system is still as good as it ever was and completely usable. Competitive, no not really. But all the major advances in the past ten years are nice to have things but not need to have things. I'm not sure the 31mm, 43mm and 77mm Limited lenses really need to be replaced or upgraded and once you buy them, even if they're discontinued, you probably will never have to buy them again. Same with the K1 mark II. The camera is really a pleasure to use, even better than the K3 Mark III, and the image quality is as good as any full frame camera on the market today with colors that I personally believe SOOC that are better than Fuji's which is to say the best of any cameras I've used. If you got to have the newest cell phone then Pentax aint for you. The more I use the DSLR optical viewfinder the more I prefer it to the EVF. And it's kind of nice to just have cameras and lenses that do the job without having to worry about the next model coming out in six months. If it does, that's great, if it doesn't, I'm satisfied now.

[@xmeda]

@@EdwardMartinsPhotography I have 4 Pentax DSLRs, few SLRs, about 30 K mount lenses, most of them AF and I would really like to have back the Pentax we used to know before Ricoh. The innovative company with interesting portfolio sitting at 3-4th place in world ILC market and offering best price/performance around. But last 7-8 years i only can see them doing series of suicidal decisions.. which cost them customers who switched to other systems and are not coming back. Now they said bye bye to all 645 customers and served them to Fuji. FF was the worst move. They neglected all the APS-C that used to be workhorse for them. They killed Q, now 645.. and as a result they have K1 with 2012 technology still on market in 2023 using mostly film era lenses, some OEM Tamrons and only few own new lenses. While others are not sleeping. Sony, Canon, Nikon and Panasonic all have prepared whole new FF systems in the meantime with completely incomparable AF. And Fuji did the same with APS-C + Medium format. So I wonder what Ricoh wants to offer to keep Pentax alive.. it looks very sad and I see no improvements.

[@EdwardMartinsPhotography]

@@dreadnoughtandcrow I don't think Pentax is going to take over the camera market. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I turned on my computer one morning and Ricoh pulled the plug on the whole thing. But it's more likely that Pentax just continues as it is, not making a lot of money, but not losing money either. The monochrome is a big hit, until someone else does one with more modern tech like Fuji, but that might never happen which is more likely. The K3 Mark III could use a few tweaks so a K3 Mark IV would be easy: tilting screen. The K1 Mark III needs to happen soon (2 years tops) though if they are serious about being the DSLR go to cameras.