Bostons Biggest Transit Bottleneck: The Logistics of Draw One, and How the MBTA Plans to Replace it

[@BostonByRails]

North Station or South Station?

[@tonymento7460]

@@BostonByRails North Station South Station was MBTA E - 8 engines GP - 9 X - Penn Central - New Haven RDC cars Penn Central New Haven and NYC cars until late 1978 when the F - 40 ‘ and the Pullman Standard commuter rail cars started in service I love when the MBTA leased D & H PA engines before they went Mexico the last time that PA engines ran out of South Station was back in the New Haven RR days back in the late 1940’s early 1950’s

[@hallze3737]

North Station is TD Garden🤯

[@TchaikovskyFDR]

Kendall/MIT Central Station; Make it happen (I live in a fantasy world where the landed elite of the boston metro region see better regional transit infrastructure as critical to a 21st Century city [We are cooked chat])

[@LilFiya]

could you eexplore the mbta haverhil line? it goes from boston.N to the town of haverhill amtrack downeastern also runs on the line and a few csx or old b&m locos i recon to go to the crossing in lawrence mass right outside of a big yard from the boston and maine still operating till this day

[@NorthSanman]

North Station. Fitchburg is my home station. The Fitchburg station is a one hour drive from where I live, and I would take the train from Fitchburg into North Station to get to Boston.

[@garydiypapa2846]

Just an FYI, the proper term for the two remaining bridges are bascule bridges. I started taking the old Budd RDC-1's, 2's and 3's back in the early 1970's when it was still the Boston and Maine. It is nice to hear someone is keeping record of the history of the passenger rail service in the Boston area, thanks.

[@godlugner5327]

Rolling bascule!

[@IamTheHolypumpkin]

I just hope, that whatever they replace it with the replacement bridge will have the clearance for future electrification, so they don’t have to replace a brand new bridge a few years after opening because they didn’t account for overhead wire clearance.

[@stevehurley-k4t]

By the time they electrify the north side it will be time for the replacement bridge to be replaced anyway😂

[@timpost2981]

@@stevehurley-k4tThis is sad but true

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Looks like the existing drawbridges have enough clearance for the overhead wires, if only you can figure out how to interface the part on the bridge with the part on solid land.

[@c182SkylaneRG]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio That part's pretty easy: power them separately. Momentum will carry the train over a few inches of missing power line, and the source for each section of wire can come from more feasible locations (like the power grid on each side of the river, or the hinge point in the bridge mechanism, etc).

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@c182SkylaneRG I've thought about that, since this is actually what was done on at least 1 (I think more) drawbridge on the Northeast Corridor. It does have a couple of risks: If a pantograph doesn't go down, you get trashed wire on the other end of the gap (reportedly, this has happened on the Northeast Corridor, although on these drawbridges it might actually reach the bridge structure and get ripped off); and a train can get stuck there (momentum is good but sometimes you have to stop where you don't want to; reportedly this has happened in a Northeast Corridor gap). The first problem could be solved if you could make sure that the wire goes up really high on each end of the gap so as to properly catch a pantograph that failed to go down (and it looks like enough room is available around the bridges here, although the bridges themselves might hose this -- at least it is easier to replace a pantograph than to replace a long stretch of wire). The latter problem could be solved if the trains had enough battery power to start again in a gap and move a short distance.

[@htopherollem649]

don't know if you still can but there is a fenced off walkway that begins in the "Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital "parking lot and runs along the tracks, over the water, and terminates where the bridges lifting pivot point is. I used to roll my wheelchair out to this point and read in the sunlight to break the tedium of learning how to walk again (October 1994) thanks for the trip down memory lane!

[@seanpray2874]

work at tower A for the first 6 years of my 31 year railroad career I've been up in the top of the bridges and worked the signal dept. side . you can still see the dents in the cement counter weight on span 1 were it hit the tracks when it broke free

[@BostonByRails]

Wow, that must have been an interesting experience

[@seanpray2874]

@@BostonByRails worked there during the big dig

[@WhooHooooooo]

There are no cement counterweights.

[@seanpray2874]

@@WhooHooooooo the weights on the bridge are cement

[@WhooHooooooo]

@@seanpray2874 Do you even know what cement is? 🤯

[@slim.reacts]

Really cool how you got Allan in the video. Legend

[@BostonByRails]

He’s a really great guy! And boy…can he tell stories!

[@Altasren]

+1. Definitely something that enhanced the video. Here's hoping you can get more old railroad personnel on to tell such stories!

[@larryc8464]

I drove over the lower deck early that morning in January 1984 with the fire burning, it was a -40 wind chill day, wind chills got revised down many years later. We didn’t see much except some smoke.

[@k34561]

The draw replacement bridge is a waste of money. The "North South Rail Link" would create four lanes of tunnel under the river. It would save the cost of replacing the draw bridge. The more I hear about Boston rail, the more I think the "North South Rail Link" should be high priority. It would solve many rail problems in Boston.

[@theelectricwalrus]

Talk to your representatives in the state house and Congress!

[@Altasren]

The cost of that link would be over $1300 for every man, woman and child in NEW ENGLAND, cause massive disruption, and take many years to make. I love rail travel as much as the next person, but good luck getting voters in Vermont, Connecticut or Massachusetts to sign off on that kind of payout ... never mind those in Wichita or West Palm Beach or Waco. (It isn't as if it's a ghastly hardship to get off at Back Bay and take the Orange Line to North Station.)

[@JonFrumTheFirst]

@@Altasren Stop that - you're making too much sense!

[@TchaikovskyFDR]

@@Altasren See, but how much cost has been transferred upon New Englanders for the lack thereof of proper transit infrastructure? How many times have trucks storrowed'? At a certain point, the cost isnt what is, but rather what isn't. Boston is a 17th Century City, with a 18th Century Routes, 19th Century Rapid Transit, and 20th Car Infrastructure. It needs to be big and bold for the 21st to stand a chance in the NEC Megalopis.

[@J0Boa]

Maybe if they stop bringing g illegals and gibbing them $2500 vouchers a month that money could be used on actually improving the failed infrastructure and actually creating the north south link which will have a tremendous impact on highway traffic alone around Boston in rush hour.

[@YardworkWithJohn]

Lucky for me, my boat fits under these drawbridges when they are down! So I never have to wait for them, or concern my self with whether or not it's rush hour..

[@FortHillPark]

Not mentioned in the video; after a few weeks of operation the temporary station near the north side of the bridge stopped servicing trains to/from Reading and Beverly. These trains would instead terminate at the Sullivan Orange line station. A ground level wooden platform was built there, with wooden bridges crossing the unused 3rd Orange line track to the high platform. From there, passengers could go upstairs and cross over to the inbound Orange line platform. Going outbound was easier; the right side platform connected to the temporary bridges. Commuter rail Orange line passengers never had it so good. It was an easy connection a Sullivan, and travel time to the Orange line's North station and points south was a lot better then commuter rail travel time, with no need for the longish walk from the commuter rail platform to the Orange line's platform at North Station.

[@tonymento7460]

I remember as a kid watching those draw bridges go and down in the 70’ at that time there was no Amtrak service to Maine just the RDC cars until 1978 that’s when the GP - 7’s were being leased by the MBTA to help out the RDC cars after the 78 blizzard

[@andrewn7365]

Really enjoyed the interview and great footage!

[@CommuterRailProductions]

I saw you at Readville last week! It was great talking to you

[@CentralMassRailfan]

me as well

[@GMCGUY-]

Great Video 🥳 ❤❤❤❤

[@georgemastellone5620]

I was just in Chicago and there is a series of bascule bridges across the Chicago River. They all carry heavy traffic and even rapid elevated transit. Because of this they are almost never opened and most boats (mostly tour boats!) seem to be built to just fit under the bridges. Twice a year the bridges are opened in sequence to allow larger boats, mostly sailboats, to pass up or downriver. It's really to make sure that the bridges are all in operating condition. I just happened to be visiting last month on the day it happened. I was going to post a picture of it, but I guess I can't in a comment.

[@andrewmazzarini2742]

Crazy thing is, North Station has capacity for 12 tracks, with tracks 11 and 12 having purple signage on the platforms despite being mothballed with MOW equipment

[@MBTAFAN879]

Great video

[@owenclark9567]

Thoughts on the new Winchester Center Station?

[@michaelwedgeworth9566]

What about figuring out a way to incline the approaching railways so that a fixed bridge with adequate clearance below it could be built. Yes, it would create lots more train congestion as probably would work on raising two lines at a time forcing all rail traffic to two lines but eventually all four lines and a higher bridge could be built.

[@bmanning4999]

Not sure you’d have the spacing from north station to be able to get high enough for that to work.

[@francislahey7981]

Fascinating.

[@godlugner5327]

11:31 *squints to see why they had to open the bridge in the first place* OH! there he goes

[@TheEarthHistorysConfusing]

Subed Thanks.

[@ryanmorrison3699]

Wow! I didn’t know Amtrak still had F40s in their fleet that hadn’t been turned into cabbages! Very cool to see!

[@francistheodorecatte]

90406 is very much a cab car, less the baggage. it was used on the 2011 Amtrak 40th anniversary museum train, along with the P42 130, which is also still carrying its phase III paint scheme it got for that tour. when 406 got rebuilt as a cab car, beech grove put a diesel genset & air compressor in it for providing HEP and air when the train was stopped for long periors of time during the anniversary tour, hence it retaining most of its original exterior appearance.

[@ryanmorrison3699]

@@francistheodorecatte Ah, so I’m hearing the HEP when it’s going by. Great info! Thank you!

[@dat1rirailfan]

6:18 this might’ve been the best catch you got, a phase 3 F40PH, and a Midnight Blue P42DC

[@Keikdv]

Yeah, put 2 crossing barriers before a deep gap. That will stop trains from falling in...

[@eliots_train_stuff]

I plan to go to north station soon

[@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan]

I’ve heard of crossing gates stopping cars and trucks but never have I’ve seen crossing gates stop Trains on a track before that’s pretty cool there’s only one other place I know of that has this type of technique and that’s a lone diamond track that crosses the south shoreline slightly out of Chicago it guards a single track diamond the gates always lower for the South Shore line commuter trains

[@owentherailfan564]

i wanna know why they got crossing gates at the bridge

[@F40-RULES]

I was literally here last Friday. lol 😂😂🤣😂

[@reubenjelley3583]

About to watch this- though I listened the Big Dig podcast and there was no mention of public transit/ rail on the whole series- why weren’t the terminals connected at that time? Can someone add context ? Like they went to such efforts and didn’t do a core link for rail. Seems boggling and since become one of my go to tales about infrastructure. (They had enough trucks of dirt filled to be back to back all the way across the Atlantic!)

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

How did that last Downeaster end up with a Genesis locomotive on both ends instead of a cabbage car on the south end?

[@jeffreyandrews6700]

Why wasn't the bridge locked into place before removing ties? That aside, it was always fun going under the lowered bridge in a small open boat and have hot oil dripped on you if a loco passed over.

[@JamesT_Rustle]

Tower A is always a difficult area to work in. Walking across the bridge still isn't fun

[@postalfnj]

like those gates are going to stop a train

[@JoeyLovesTrains]

I just wish they would’ve got that money for north south rail link… no point in rebuilding a bridge if north south rail link won’t need it

[@jmream2618]

Does the MC in GP40MC mean metro commuter

[@stevehurley-k4t]

Massachusetts commuter

[@buttersrow426]

M=Microprocessor, C=Cummings (HEP generator)

[@tomgeraci2044]

This drawbridge is the worst - and trains have to slow down so much on the approach to it that it’s actually quicker to take the orange line from Malden to North Station than the commuter rail.

[@TexasRailfan21-RailfanRyan]

It’s nice to see a non-rebuilt GP40MC locomotive still wearing it’s original mechanical bell on the front as all of these engines including the F40PH locomotives are being rebuilt they will lose their mechanical belss in favor of electronic bells made by The Company with the word Graham in it who to my knowledge bought out the company that made those distinctive Canadian electronic bells which some of the Texas Trinity Railway express F59PH and cab car units have sadly after the takeover I think these bells were discontinued

[@gabembta12]

The project is going to take 8 years

[@MarkInLA]

The thing I don't get is, aside from whether the draw bridges fail or not, ALL passenger terminals bottleneck !! They HAVE to as all the stall tracks MUST converge into one or two, maybe three main lines in/out anyway and is called the 'throat' at this point.. So, the title of this video is somewhat exaggerated, or at least made to look like Boston station has much more of an in/out problem than anywhere else..Yes there is a short wait-out for the bridge up/down, but it certainly doesn't look to be inhibiting train movement so much as to be a nuisance.. Well, at least not to a modeler and rail fan..But I suppose, shear businesswise it might be...eh !

[@peteranderson7676]

I did not even know such drawbridge existed in Boston.

[@owenclark9567]

Also any idea why some Downeasters haven't had their cabbage cars?

[@buttersrow426]

Leaf season, so they run a loco on either end

[@mattyd979]

North Point Park right there is a great place to watch trains go by... not a great place to try to take a nap, that drawbridge siren is pretty annoying.

[@J0Boa]

So how will that new bridge project improve the choke point if it also has 4 tracks over it ? Our city and state officials spend millions of dollars on narrowing 2 lane streets some times three lane streets to one lane all over Massachusetts to create a 16ft wide sidewalk and a bike lane that no one uses. Smart decisions like that make it impossible to commute to work or schools . Gotta love these Smart projects !!!

[@MIKES0029]

Wow the meta locos are always so dirty

[@Society2day]

Rasie the track loose the drawbridge

[@6yjjk]

"Nagivable"? :)

[@lanster77schannel]

is that footage of it moving sped up at all? it doesn't look to be, crazy how fast it can move

[@BostonByRails]

@@lanster77schannel nope! Footage is untouched. I agree, its quicker than you may think

[@Train115]

I kinda wish they'd build new bridges instead of replacing these. 1931 is pretty old and admirable.

[@FLYSLATERYDER]

Yippy

[@opencirclefleettrains]

Hey!

[@BostonByRails]

Ian 🤘

[@opencirclefleettrains]

@@BostonByRails 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

[@Bicycle789]

Horrible track and everything around conditions 😂

[@redshift5050]

It felt like that video played longer than it will take to replace the bridges.

[@bigbilly7865]

🚆🚆🚆🚆🚆🚆🚆🚆

[@PeaceToAll-sl1db]

thanks for sharing :) don't forget to get your vote in early for Donald Trump!

[@BG-sl9lv]

Silly. All this constant disruption and expense for the sake of a mile and a half of navigation upstream (very few boats can get beyond the Harvard Bridge's 12 foot clearance and nothing at all of any necessity) Maybe it's time to let sanity rule and consider that area of water a lake. Some of these colonial laws are ridiculous in the modern world.

[@anitrain]

Is that really all it is? I was watching the boats in the video thinking none of these look essential.

[@BG-sl9lv]

@@anitrain Basically a bunch of cute sailing dinghies of community boating, duck boat tours and some small craft from the Watertown Yacht Club that can actually pass under the low bridges. For this we had to build the Zakim bridge and now replace the railroad bridges. Believe it or not there's even a set of locks for these runabouts. basically billions for daysailers.

[@filanfyretracker]

@@BG-sl9lv Key word there is Yacht Club, probably means lots of people with lots of money and as such the ears of the right politicians in city hall and the state capitol.

[@BG-sl9lv]

@@filanfyretracker exactly

[@davidklauer3422]

Federal funding Meaning, my Texan ass is paying for a bunch of Boston commuters Let’s see, how the hell much did the Big Dig cost me? How over budget was that cluster F? Live your vids no matter

[@BG-sl9lv]

how much is Helene and Milton (and the next and the next) going to cost us because a few folks want to live on a beach in Hurricane alley?

[@thomasstambaugh5181]

The net flow of federal funds has been INTO Texas and OUT OF Massachusetts for decades. Your "Texan ass" has been subsidized by Massachusetts taxpayers like me forever. Perhaps you might look at actual budgets and data from time to time -- if you care about facts at all.

[@WmSommerville]

Nope. Mass residents pay more in federal taxes than the state receives in funding. Texas residents on the other hand can't seem to live within their means and get more money from the Feds then they pay in. So the real question is what dumb stuff in Texas are those Boston commuters paying for after they've paid for their own infrastructure out of their own pockets?

[@bmanning4999]

Massachusetts ($0.60) gets less federal funding per dollar of taxes than Texas ($0.75)