Welding Cast Iron Visual Inspection and Testing

[@BrandonLund]

MORE WELDING AND FABRICATION VIDEOS HERE:kzbin.info/aero/PLfbf78fMz9Vol0uX2-GNc6mLi75zpqb5f LEARN HOW TO WELD VIDEOS HERE:kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3XEYnxpZp56gJI

[@moensultan6108]

I have a cylinder of FCD500 material . Which rod should use to weld it ? Pls respond and help

[@BrandonLund]

@@moensultan6108 sorry man I don't have any welding experience with this specific material. A quick search appears that it might be a ductile cast iron? If it's grey iron and without seeing it you could always try a test weld with nirod

[@moensultan6108]

Brandon Lund Thanks dear for your being straight forward and supportive

[@1nvisible1]

*I like your stuff because you ask questions most hobby welders would need to know and you're not looking for a 100% museum finish, you're looking for the simplest solution with the fewest tools. It's very relatable.*

[@BrandonLund]

Spot on man! Thank you! 🙏

[@dhc4ever]

Very restrained Brandon. It usually goes, prep, clean, weld, TINK, F***!!!!!! Good demonstration. Thanks

[@BrandonLund]

Hahaha! You got that SPOT ON!

[@tanksoldier9770]

You did a great job using Muggy weld you got my vote . I have a 73 Chevy crew cab 1 ton 350 auto trans ,the right side manifold broke three times didn't know about muggy weld until your video I went with Hooker headers and haven't had any more problems in the last 25 years .

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man! I appreciate your support!

[@BrandonLund]

I like the old square bodies too!

[@tyroneclarke1666]

Hi mate. Really enjoy watching your videos. We can never stop learning different things. Cheers

[@BrandonLund]

Right on! I'm 50 years old and I still learn new things every day...or at least i try anyways...

[@이병철-m6l]

very interesting. I am in charge of repairing castings in Korea. However, we are repairing the casting products that are not in use already. So I usually repair the cracks that occur during casting or where the casting sand penetrates. So I would like to see a lot of videos of this kind.

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks! Here is a link to a bunch of my other cast iron welding repair videos kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3-rcqebpJKkrck

[@gregkral4467]

Ach, as soon as I heard 6010 on cast iron, damn, gotta see that fail...... thanks for your videos.... all are very well done. Subscribed.

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks buddy! I appreciate your kind words and the sub! It means a lot. Thanks! 👍🍻

[@lyleg6553]

I enjoyed watching you're videos, so... Thanks very much for taking the time to make them. Mike with muggy weld is great!! I used the 72 rod and knocked all the flux off and used my tig torch on a VW TDI engine. I welded just a tiny bit 1/2" here and there until it was everywhere keeping the metal cool to the touch as much as possible. Just like you said less temperature swing creates less "crinkling" sound. A few years ago I found some machinable cast iron tig rod that came from a retiree from the Naval Research Lab fabrication shop. It is a nickel rod, and flows like butter at a low temp. It is from a antiquated U.S. company that I can't find any more info about. Great stuff!! Thanks again for making the vids on cast. I never would have thought about trying the 6013 but now at least I have an idea of what to expect if I have too.

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks Lyle! I agree Mike is a good guy. I got a lot of viewer requests for that Muggy Weld rod so I reached out to him. Who would have though that a couple years later it would have nearly 3 million views! Thanks again, I appreciate your support!

[@BrucePierson]

I watched your original video on the simulated manifold crack repair and I found it very informative. I didn't bother commenting, because of the many comments. Your original repair came out really good and I'm going to try welding a real crack in a manifold, but I will pre-heat it and post slow-cool it. Thanks for the tips. All the best from Queensland Australia.

[@BrandonLund]

@Bruce Pierson thanks man and good luck with your repair!

[@rvalcourtpersonaca]

Agree with you 100% Brandon. Just the fact that the piece Is an exhaust manifold almost guarantees that the material is cast iron, no doubt about it. Cast steel is utilized in parts that require a certain amount of structural integrity where the only structural strength That an exhaust manifold needs is to hold on to the exhaust pipe. In my experience I can say that certain types of cast iron are almost impossible to weld no matter what method or rod you use. I think that if you check your old saw blade I believe you will notice that it is very dull, some cast iron gets as hard as a file after being welded.

[@BrandonLund]

Spot on brother! Plus it does not make sense from a financial standpoint to manufacture a part from steel when it can be manufactured in iron (steel being much more costly to produce) and you are absolutely right about the saw blade. The metal in the area of the weld completely dulled the saw blade and rounded the teeth right over. I was originally going to attempt to etch and polish the edge just to see how it would look, but it was just too hard and I don't have any "junk" files that I was willing to ruin. Thanks for the great comment!

[@Azlehria]

One potential source of confusion is the sheer variety of iron alloys. Nissan cast their blocks and exhaust manifolds with iron back in the '70s and '80s that was *very* strange. It was definitely not steel, but it cut bright with fairly long chips instead of the short, dull ones you usually get from grey iron. Whole lot of nickel in it. Still cracked like CGI, though.

[@hydrocarbon82]

You're not wrong but GM has more than just price to contend with. All LS trucks have nothing supporting the twin converters and crossover piping til about 6-8 feet behind the motor. They also have no flex pipe between banks to account for expansion. Both show a need for strength steel would provide. This was likely a aftermarket manifold, as all genuine GM-LS manifolds I've seen tested (myself & others) was cast steel. It's also why they are always so horribly disfigured in the northern states, where I've seen at least 1/5 of the weight missing from rust.

[@sgribb02]

Love it! Getting ready to repair an old, very old, cast iron "fire dog"! Thanks for sharing!

[@BrandonLund]

I appreciate your support! Thank you! 🙏😁

[@24681359David]

This is a prime example of why you should pre-heat and post-heat. It helps with the hardness in the cast iron after it's been welded.

[@BrandonLund]

@David Boyce Absolutely. Pre and post heat increase your chance of success considerably.

[@SMArtMetalArt]

Loving your videos - very interesting. Your doing great - please continue :-)

[@BrandonLund]

Thank you very much! I appreciate your support!

[@gregkral4467]

temp control sure is everything, pre and post heat, and keep it holding heat as long as possible...... well done. Thanks.

[@gregbeckham2098]

Looks like the weld is strong, metal probably started to break at the thinner area first. Great video, thanks for putting in the work involved.

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks for your support! I was surprised at how well it held. It was stronger than I thought.

[@shitbox7413]

I recently MIG welded V band flanges on some LS manifolds, welded surprisingly well with regular old wire, probably ER70S2. I attempted a crack repair with my TIG machine a while back, ER70S2, it didn’t work very well...

[@BrandonLund]

It can be picky to weld. I bet these would weld good with 7018 but I haven't tried...yet :)

[@keithparady2594]

There’s always gonna be one but I guess that could be a good thing helps people learn stuff every day. Like ur videos and think ur a good dude and I don’t leave message to very many people’s videos just cause I’m more of a observer

[@BrandonLund]

Thank you very much! I appreciate your support and encouraging words!

[@billarroo1]

Creaking sounds are scarey when your in a haunted house or welding cast iron !! 😃😃 great video. THANKS

[@BrandonLund]

So true! hahahahaha @William Ambrogio

[@Yash-jo8hv]

To weld cast iron would you recommend cast iron stick rods for the best results

[@BrandonLund]

@Yash that or nickle rods

[@mobilechief]

Cast Cannon barrels were put in sand for a week to cool at the Ironworks in Richmond VA back in the day

[@BrandonLund]

Interesting! Thank you! I will have to look into that :)

[@JEROMEGORDINI]

Never see cast iron repair with a semi automatic, I'm going to do an internship with you 😂. Thank you for this new video

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks for watching buddy! I appreciate your support!

[@JEROMEGORDINI]

@@BrandonLund tell me where did you learn all this? I repair a lot too, old objects, motorcycles. . . tell me, I use por 15 with metal ready, I know you use chassis saver, rust oleum and the I will repair a trailer all rusty for an old motor bike

[@BrandonLund]

I have been very fortunate to work around a bunch of folks that are very knowledgeable and passed on their trade to me.

[@JEROMEGORDINI]

@@BrandonLund you was lucky to have a lot of good friends. I learned alone and I try to do almost everything alone. If one day you come in France you are welcome

[@BrandonLund]

@@JEROMEGORDINI thank you very much! You are very kind! I have never been to France but its very beautiful.

[@keithparady2594]

That’s wicked crazy that people would say that it’s obvious that it’s cast iron and that 308 is what we used a lot doing expansion joints at the mill. But another good one

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man! I think because people have had some luck with mig that they just assume its steel.

[@kirstabelle08]

Great vids. What cones do you smoke?

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks! Ive been on this earth 40 plus years and had to google what a "cone" was. Im all set with cones, but I have been known to enjoy a cold beer occasionally :)

[@bojack2740]

Very educational and practical. Thanks. Keep it up man

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man! 👍

[@raybonz7939]

I agree that is cast iron.. BTW the link is to an Ansen welder not a Blue Demon welder.. That welder does work well with 6010!

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man! I'll fix that link. I didnt realize. That thing runs 6010 like a boss!

[@bruced1429]

good video on cast iron. I have used Arctec cast 80 and cast 90 which have worked with no preheat. some have used 7018 with success. I wonder if you tried some 8018 or 9018 and see how that goes. I believe they have a higher nickel content.

[@BrandonLund]

Thank man! I have tried 7018 with success but it is often hit or miss. I have not tried 8018 or 9018 but I cant imagine by the designation that it would weld much different than 7018. I'm thinking the 7018 would probably work better if you were using it on cast just because of the lower tensile strength, but that's just an assumption.

[@jushuadmcelroy]

I have an old manifold that’s really hard to find and it has a crack in it. all I have is a flux core Hobart 120. Is it possible for me to weld that crack up?? Please help!

[@jushuadmcelroy]

It’s a cast iron manifold

[@BrandonLund]

@@jushuadmcelroy If it's something that is rare and you truly care about it than your best chance for success is going to be a nickel 55 or 99 rod...either stick weld it or tig weld it using the same rod. If your willing to experiment, flux core wire will work as I've shown but it's a gamble.

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

Dont listen to the clowns that say ir is steel. They know absolutely nothing.

[@Ck-zw2dx]

When you grind cast iron it gives off a Rosy color spark

[@massa-blasta]

The Blue Demon BLUEARC-160STI has a no-load voltage of 82v which is very good for running 6010, but then I saw the duty cycle of only 35% which sucks. Should have at least a 60% duty cycle.

[@BrandonLund]

I agree and I was concerned at first about the duty cycle, but 3 1/2 minutes of welding is actually a lot if your not doing pipe or production work, so for me, even though it has a low duty cycle, I have yet to hit it. This is my go to rig for most stick welding stuff just because I like how how smooth the arc starts and runs.

[@chaselentz8738]

These may be cast iron instead of steel. I thought they were steel. All I know for sure is you can find a shit-ton of people who have welded them up for their turbo builds using MIG and no special procedures, myself included. I have been running these manifolds that I MIG welded for quite a while now on my turbo 6.0 with no issues. There are a LOT of posts on LS1tech about MIG welding these which is where I got the idea to try it. If they are cast iron, they're much better cast iron than that which you'd find on a set of manifolds from 40 years ago. I also cleaned my weld areas back at least an inch beyond the actual weld seam itself to avoid burning in contaminants during the welding process. That may have something to do with why I didn't have any cracks. I cut the EGR and heat shielf bosses off entirely and filled them with weld. Also cut the collector flange completely off of one manifold to change the angle at which it exited. Mine were also pretty clean and rust free, that one you got there is super rusty in comparison lol.

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks for watching and commenting! It's somewhat of a misconception that cast iron is nearly impossible to weld, so when someone comes along and successfully welds a cast iron part using mig, it's automatically assumed that it must NOT be cast iron and it must be cast steel. I have successfully welded cast iron using various methods, including mig and some have worked better than others. Some failed immediately and some I though would give me trouble welded up like butter. There are just so many factors that go into cast iron. I personally think it's the extra trash they put in the mix that floats to the top that has a lot to do with how it welds up, which is why many of the old schoolers swear by torch brazing because they are not "wetting in" the parent metal and stirring up the garbage inside. The cast from the early 1900's is probably some of the more difficult stuff to weld in my opinion. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@chaselentz8738]

The only question I have at this point is how would we determine EXACTLY what these LS manifolds are, iron or steel? We can make educated guesses, and a preliminary internet search reveals different rule of thumb methods used in the field like the spark test you used. I guess it really doesn't matter I'm just always curious? I agree with you about the difference in "weld-ability" of iron having a lot to do with what other stuff they mix into the molten mix to make their supply go farther. I will also add, you mentioned in the other video that you could hear the MIG weld cracking when cooling. While that may be true and you certainly showed evidence of the welds cracked, I don't think that sound can be attributed 100% to cracking. When I park any of my cars/trucks/motorcycles after running for a good while and heat-soaking, you can hear them make all kinds of metallic tinny sounds as the metal is cooling. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are cracking but just cooling and contracting back down.

[@BrandonLund]

Here are 4 methods. Examine the grain structure of the broken piece, cast and steel grain structures are very different. spark test it, drill test it, and finally do a hardness test. Run a file on the corner and see if it cuts. Then blast tack the same area with TIG. If the area becomes hard like a BB and wont file, it's cast iron. You can not purchase this as a cast steel exhaust manifold. It doesn't exist. They are marketed and sold as cast iron. Lastly, a member on the LS forums paid for independent testing and he posted the results. Google "what truck manifolds are really made of" They are upwards of 3.6% carbon and high in silicone.

[@chaselentz8738]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I don't know how I haven't found that thread on LS1tech before as I'm on there pretty regularly myself. It's interesting about 3/4 of the way down a guy with the handle oscs says "As stated earlier in the thread "on paper" these should not be welding well at all, But they do. It could be the higher amount of silicon or another material that is helping. The real test would be to try an older set (70/80's) cast iron manifold and see the difference. "

[@FW190D9]

Great video thanks for posting

[@BrandonLund]

Thank you very much! Stay tuned, next weeks video should be very interesting!

[@gregkral4467]

but cast steels even higher alloy can be 316 stick welded, on thick stuff, just keep it so you can put your hand on during interpass... all depends on alloy of course...

[@gordbaker896]

309 L can also be used for welding cast Iron.

[@jaquesdaniels2964]

Thing is, parts like that are what we used to call pot metal back in nineteen hunnerd and high fat diet, they were cast with all the junk brought in from the junkyard (scrap from the scrapyard in limey language). There is no real way of guessing whats in a wummans handbag(purse to you ex colonials), and no real way of guessing whats in parts like that, might as well try to guess how much beef is in a McDos burger.That was a good experiment; interesting to see the results with different processes. The man I was apprenticed to used to say, "heat it up, braze it, then bury it-and forget where you buried it" LOL Next video sounds interesting.

[@BrandonLund]

You kill me with the "wummins" hand bag! 🤣🤣🤣 you are spot on about the pot metal which makes a lot of the cast hit or miss. I had a part that I broke off an antique vehicle many years ago and it was not weldable. It was grey cast with tons of trash / pot metal. Cast can be fun...until it's not!:) cheers brother!

[@hkredpill9661]

Do a hammer test. Break the cut piece with a hammer and you will see the cast iron grains.

[@BrandonLund]

100% Right on! Next week we are going to talk about this as one of the 5 ways to determine if it is cast iron or not.

[@tobywise3781]

Great video! Something I've found: Cast steel or cast iron, does not matter. But 6010 is not a good choice of rod. Too "brittle". I've had good luck using 7018. A groove would have helped too.

[@BrandonLund]

Right on brother! Spot on with the groove weld also.

[@MrYiminie]

ive been welding since 1958 and would never use an arc welder on cast iron because it creates stress points. I use a cobra oxy-fuel torch and my filler is always foundry rod 9cast iron ) because it matches the part being repaired better. welding with oxy-fuel leaves the part easy to file, machine, etc.

[@BrandonLund]

That's excellent if you have the gear, but many folks watching this channel are just starting out with an old buzz box or inverter. I'd rather see those folks give it a try rather than just give up and throw it away because they dont have a torch and gas. Just my humble opinion anyways.

[@carljorgensen2813]

Nice job

[@BrandonLund]

Thank you very much

[@bretk7916]

First thing no matter what you're using to weld it up in the experiment you still got to use the same process you can't just make a 5-in weld all at one time you still got to go about an inch at a time and with your experiment I would still say preheat and post heat and encapsulate in sand for cooling.. side note...... 7018 is the best substitute for nickel with preheat and post heat 1" welds. 7018 for root pass also

[@BrandonLund]

I don't ever use 7018 to repair cast. I've had too many failures. All I use now is silicon bronze, and the repair is almost as strong as pre break strength. Nickle is always a good option also but silicon bronze is superior.

[@tryandtakealaska3797]

tiggy glue with silly con bronze lol sorry tig weld it with silicon bronze or aluminum bronze I also like tig with nickel stick rods with shielding cleaned off get half used rods free from a buddy at local welding shop the I clean off shelding and tack them together cause they chuck used rods as they dont arc good after sitting out in air 1/2 used but tig great. thanks for sharing

[@BrandonLund]

So far, silicon bronze has yielded the highest breaking strength that ive testef to date. It's almost as strong as the cast iron pre break strength. I love silicon bronze for cast iron repair.

[@welderrick2461]

Try silica bronze and tig!

[@BrandonLund]

Good call. I like using silicon bronze :)

[@rockerpat1085]

As a mechanic, I can't confirm that this exaust manifold is cast iron. They have always been cast iron!!! If you argue this you're either ignorant or just stupid!!! Keep Rocking it out Dude!!!

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man! I appreciate your support!

[@casycasy5199]

nice job

[@BrandonLund]

Thanks man, appreciate it! Cheers!

[@1873Winchester]

I've seen that they gas weld cast iron using cast iron filler.

[@BrandonLund]

@1873Winchester that is an excellent repair method 👍

[@s.olvera4677]

*THE GUY THAT QUESTIONED SHOULD HAVE ASKED HOW TO TEACH HIM RECOGNIZING CAST IRON NOT WHAT HE OR THEM SAID ABOUT IT, WHY? CAUSE ANYONE IN THE INDUSTRY KNOWS CASTING JUST BY LOOKING AT IT*

[@zHxIxPxPxIxEz]

It could be ductile. Cast steel. Cast semi steel. Spark test ✨ if say don't know. Don't be a jerk.

[@BrandonLund]

@S.olvera The folks watching this channel aren't "in the industry". They are watching because they are trying to learn so maybe try and cut them some slack.

[@tylerlumpkin3675]

Try welding it with wire and then have it machined

[@BrandonLund]

I've got a few videos with wire but the outcome varies depending on the cast. I get a better finish with nickel.

[@pawelgotter1961]

Lets go Brandon! 😄👍

[@BrandonLund]

🤣🤣🤣

[@mceperformance8978]

MIG welding cast iron rarely (if ever) works. I've never had it work. TIG Braze is the most likely to succeed. TIG Weld with Ni99 will usually work (not always). It seems like the people that don't know better get away with it more than anyone else. 8\

[@BrandonLund]

Right on brother!

[@KingHalbatorix]

using 7018 on malleable cast iron is possible if your only option is stick, but it only has a good chance of working if you properly pre-heat, and peen the weld. Other types of cast iron are less receptive to stick welding and especially white cast iron is basically impossible.

[@BrandonLund]

@@KingHalbatorix everything you said is 100% 👍