Breakdown of Opening Theory from Magriel 1976

[@MrEdwardCollins]

I think it's amazing how players like Magriel and Holland and Dwek, etc., figured all of this out back then, without the benefit of any computer analysis at all. Their knowledge came from their own roll-outs (by hand!) or via intuition... or both.

[@sjsphotog]

LONG hard work for sure. and to think WE spend too much time on BG nowadays :) we can only imaging how long it took to do manual rollouts back then!!!

[@warrenz9226]

Magriel was a math stats professor. he was a human computer lol.

[@jimbosaul3996]

Hi Marc, great video. Back in their heyday of the 70's it was not seen as correct in any way to make the inner board splits to the anchor. it was totally frowned upon. i learnt in the early 80's using all those 70's books of Mariel, Lewis Dewong, Barclay Cooke, Crawford et al. they were paranoid about splitting the back checkers. it was seen as weak. they wanted more builders for the home inner board. they relied on small doubles to advance the anchor. even double 1's advanced to the 23 pt which many liked. Certainly 2-1 off the bar made the 2 pt and considered strong then.!! they liked to run with the large rolls and bring down builders into the outerboard with the others, but never split. Barclay Cooke was very influential. he won many tournaments and was highly respected. but he was ultra conservative especially on the splitting. maintaining his anchor was of utmost importance to him. & although they understood the Golden Pt (20pt), they didn't split to make it. and never ever considered a 2 split to the 22 pt, for fear of the blitz from the 'dreaded double 5' in return. Additionally, they were obsessed with making their own 5 point & the bar point, and so provided builders from the midpoint for them. They preferred in order, the 5pt, then bar pt and then the 4 pt and never the 3 or 2 pt. hence NO 5-3 to the 3pt ! and bringing all hose builders down, was all ok, b/c they always still had their anchor (24pt) in their opponents homeboard - that's how they rationalized it & so they couldn't be blitzed. thats how i remember it all. i played like this for ever. only until the bots came in did i change. Barclay Cooke and those guys never saw the relevance of developing all boards with those home boards splits. the only exception was Joe Dwek who did split the opening moves, as seen in the book 'World Championship Backgammon' which featured Barclay Cooke as both a player in the tourney and a writer. they panned Joe for his opening minor split moves. Turns our Joe was right !!! lol. so a little trip down memory lane. we cant fault them. the neural nets have changed the game forever. no one was smart enough to know what the computer knows back then. really interesting video. i hope you do more on this - then & now analysis. but do be easy on them,, they were legends of their time and did all they did with no computer learning. pretty damn good !

[@alwaysmrwilson]

After reading paul's book when it was published, people talked.. i remember many debates back in the mid 70's concerning "modern" versus "old ways". The 1920's, 30's & 40's all held "modern concepts", as will the 2040's. With 16 ply, ect. Let's call it "Current" The evolution of the game at that time was interesting. From money to matches, from simple to complex. Even setting up gammons, by hooking "the fish". Playing off the 13 and 6 with a 4-1 , some called it fishing. Grabbing your opponent's 20 point i.e. The gold point, allowed greater flexibility and defense. Fighting (Slotting or Hitting) for your 5 point was considered noble. Since single cash games were the norm, a good player may at times "hustle" some games. Play loose to get cubed. Accept a "too good". Yet, have a killer 1-3 or a 1-4 back game. Not today. Computers don't hustle. That 6-4 "Lovers Leap" still works well. A following 2-3, 3-4 , 4-5 all play. 2pt vs 9, 10 or 11pts. ?? Still, I liked his book, he worked hard on it. It benefited the community greatly. As has yours.

[@mobiusklein9140]

"Playing loose to get cubed" - yes a hustlers ploy for sure but you give the impression that it's in Paul's book.

[@mickplummer6884]

Thank you Marc. I am a beginner just delving into theory and I found this video extremely helpful and easy to follow.

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Great to hear Mick! I can also recommend the "Beginner's Mistakes in Backgammon" videos!

[@sjsphotog]

@@BackgammonGalaxy agree 1000%

[@creativeillumination]

@@BackgammonGalaxy those are great videos

[@michaeltmcbride]

These Magriel videos are great. Thanks Marc.

[@timsullivan4566]

As an older player only recently returning to the game, I could not be more appreciative of the invaluable info you've presented here. (and it goes a long way towards explaining the strange pauses my opening plays seem to elicit when playing on BG Galaxy!) Thanks.

[@eddieballgame]

Excellent video, thanks Marc as always.

[@vicmajid973]

Mange tak. This was great for me. The discussion about when to use the different rolls was particularly useful. My first and only book was the Jacoby book about 25 years ago. (going to get your books soon). I remember it said something interesting about 4-1....If you were offered to start a game with one checker on the 8 point, you would be happy. Made logical sense to me. But the splitting also makes sense now.

[@monam5610]

Wow, so much good info here. I will have to watch this probably 3xs...lol

[@sjsphotog]

or more :)

[@JeffErdmann]

Hey Marc, it is incredible how many nuances there are in Backgammon and how we continue to learn after 5000 years. This is what keeps Backgammon such an exciting and awesome game!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Thank you for the kind words!

[@MihMih-p8c]

5000 years - it's longgammon. Not backgammon

[@TheSuperdaniel1970]

Magriel’s gift to the world. Easy to read and understand. IMO It can quickly move a player from novice/beginner to advanced without a doubt. Then, can keep going with software and articles. Always something to learn.

[@cryptoschmucki588]

very good explained, easy to understand. Thank you!

[@tonyrodriguez2524]

Awesome Class! I'm a beginner and addicted to this game. I mainly play on computer because I can't find any humans to play against. I'll put this class on the que to rewatch it. I'll probably pick up on something I missed in the first class.

[@frankfarjood4080]

Outstanding Job as Usual. Incredibly informative and enjoyable.

[@hrabanus]

Very good work, keep these videos coming! It's so interesting how concepts have changed and how different plays are best suitable in different situations.

[@warrenz9226]

Awesome video Marc. So many different sites have different roll outs. Nice to get the goods from a GM that explains the flexibility in some of the rolls in light of the match score etc. Thanks from Vancouver Canada!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Thank you very much Warren!!

[@johndruska]

Wow, I am learning so many words from this tutorial! blitzing! contact game plan! I am waiting for "Basics to Badass" to arrive in the mail and I am getting excited for it just by watching this video! Thanks!

[@Nicole-rq8ix]

Wow, love the explanation at 19:18 of how playing 4-3 with 24/21 13/9 is better than 24/20 13/10, because of the diversification of rolls. You took great notes, and thank you for the explanations! Question: I am on Backgammon Galaxy so I do "analyze" the games with Extreme Gammon after the games are done. But is there a way that I can play myself and check what the computer thinks of each move I make, as you are doing?

[@robmunro1065]

play yourself on xg?

[@jjmckenna]

First you need to purchase XG for your computer. It’s $60. Then, yes, you can play yourself on XG, or play against the computer and you can set the level of the computer opponent. You can also download your games from Galaxy into XG and analyze them at a higher level for more accurate analysis. That’s what I do! Good luck!

[@Nicole-rq8ix]

@@jjmckenna That helps, thanks a lot! :)

[@sjsphotog]

play on XG (computeer version) using the Teaching or Tutor mode and i will let you play your move ans then tell you if you made a blunder or error and then you can take it back and try again and keep trying until yoy get it right. and then progress each level changing the teacher settingfs until you become a master : best way to learb and best $60 you can spend for a LIFE of BG play

[@sjsphotog]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGaxgYevmN51g7M

[@robertpapp5683]

Keep these videos coming. Extremely instructive!

[@alsmith2900]

Very informative..thanks

[@watters23]

Great videos! I'm just starting to play Backgammon more seriously and I saved this video to use as a quick opening reference.

[@ingevandendorpel4218]

Thank you very much for this interesting break down!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@mc8095]

Great video Mark, keep them coming, so many things to learn in it about the game.

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Thanks, will do!

[@garrycrew4964]

Great stuff Marc

[@jedagelijksebraintraining]

We love Rain. Thx backgammon buddy.

[@Kathymuir]

I really appreciated the structure and visual explanation of opening theory then and now. You’ve become one of my main go-to resources for knowledge and the array of videos you provide for free is excellent. To show the love, I’ve just purchased From Basics to Badass on Amazon to have something to have close buy that doesn’t involve switching on a computer :).

[@ramiramitto7033]

Excellent video!! Marc you’re brilliant! Thanks dude.

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

I appreciate that!

[@solarrecs]

nice logical explanations. I will now think more of if I am behind I should choose a more aggressive play from any roll I make

[@gpunkta]

Very cool, thank you!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Glad you liked it!

[@solarrecs]

also, are there any published statistics on the winning percentage of the different game types, like a running game, a blitz, a back game.? Seems like there might be, and it would be good to have this information

[@davidmegeath1353]

Damnation…learned a lot…appreciate your insights, knowledge and analysis…your awesome!

[@Chris-cs7nv]

If he doesn't know that he should hit lose is going for the 20 point best or for 21? Going for 21 is second best otherwise (essentially a toss up with the best move, bringing 2 down) so which split is better against such an opponent?

[@phineasg7709]

I'm just getting started with backgammon, and the first thing I read was Magriel's Backgammon. I've been following it like a bible since I read it in March. I very recently purchased 501 Essential Backgammon Problems by Bill Robertie, but I haven't read it yet. Are there any other books that you would consider essential reading? PS. Thank you for Backgammon Galaxy. I don't know any BG players where I live, so without Backgammon Galaxy I would probably have given up and tried chess :P

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Backgammon Galaxy is the biggest website and community for Backgammon, a pleasure to have you part of it Phineas. You should follow us on facebook and join the strategy group, where you can post screenshots and hundreds of experts are ready to give good advice. facebook.com/backgammongalaxy and the facebook group: "Backgammon Strategy". The best book for you is Backgammon - From Basics to Badass, and is sold via Amazon.

[@Chesscolin883]

great video Marc, thank you

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Animaljj2002]

I think it is still one of the best books learning pipcount and tricks to compair the count of both players.

[@giovannihines3990]

One thing I have not heard discussed is the calculation of common rolls or making sure that closer to the middle of the game the urgency of crossing points. I play a lot online and very rarely loose. When I sense my opponent is building up a solid defense I go blitz. I usually pull the game when I do that. Knowing the odds of certain roll combinations is huge!

[@ericwazner6521]

👍 Fantastic information! Truly is priceless 💰💰 Love it❤️🍻🎲🎲👊

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

We agree! Thanks Eric!

[@murrrr8288]

really useful video to teach best moves and why they are good!

[@ShaneVeltri]

So helpful. Thanks.

[@travisroberts4498]

Nice video. Thank you

[@sammywohl5194]

Hey Marc! What about the doubles rolls? Did Magriel’s ideas align with modern theory?

[@garydadaian2868]

In tournament play there are no opening double rolls.

[@sammywohl5194]

@@garydadaian2868 oh duh. I totally forgot!

[@sjsphotog]

@@garydadaian2868 I think you now what they meant meaning opps 1st opening roll after the initial dice toss

[@jimbosaul3996]

@@garydadaian2868 i think he means the opening reply roll as a double

[@luiscerqueiragomes938]

Hi Marc. Great video! I think you didn't mention the 6-3 and the 3-2, did you? Ty

[@BantuEducation]

Hi Marc, I really liked your explanation of why (with 43 opening) its better to bring a man down to the 9pt than the 10, and better to split to your 21pt. Many thanks love your analysis..!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Thank you very much Anthony! There is a lot of great knowledge in this video! If you re-watch it, you will probably pick up on one or two more ideas :)

[@Gos1234567]

Laughed when you used the term “fish”😂.I see a lot of concepts that poker and backgammon have in common. GTO v exploitative plays and what was a standard move now would be frowned upon years ago. Fascinating to a beginner !!

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

cool!

[@Ronmszlaifer]

Marc, in his book Backgammon, on page 113 on bottom of the page , Magriel refers to his 20 point anchor, for the first time ever, as the “golden Point “.

[@paulpalomino8412]

Marc, what WOULD be your recommendation for a book for a beginner to casual player? Thank you.

[@sjsphotog]

fantatic video Marc. Great info for beginners and intermediates. keep em coming. Love the XG skin. is it available in the store now?

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Let's see if we can find a way to distribute the Galaxy skin :)

[@buteforce]

Any chance of doing one on the best reply moves to the opening moves?

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

That's a great idea!

[@thaumielbelial7345]

Can you do a Video of the eastern way of playing . Called long backgammon . All checkers start from frist pip.

[@jackcarpenters3759]

I would say it is the number one book for beginners.

[@sjsphotog]

I think Magriel is too tech/advanced for a begineer to read. With More basic and modern terminolgy I like "Winning Backgammon" by John Leet for beginners as there are some VERY valuable tables in the book and back of the book to help you learn / remember and it covers both 1 point games as well as macth play so its a great book to GROW and not just a beginners book and it is (was) cheap at only $15 or less it wont break the bank which most beginners wont. Hope you can still find it or borrow it from your library

[@phineasg7709]

@@sjsphotog I started backgammon this spring with no background in any strategy games. The first thing I ever did in terms of strategy was read Magriel's Backgammon. It was in no way too technical or advanced for me.

[@sjsphotog]

@@phineasg7709 but maybe you're a tech person. anyways tats good but many needhand holding :) not me but those like my wife

[@chufflangs]

The Galaxy skin is awesome!!!

[@boner12boner]

What is the program used here to show moves?

[@frankfarjood4080]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make this galaxy skin available for the XG. I don't like any of the color schemes in XG. Having this color scheme in XG same as the platform we all spend so much time on is much appreciated. How do I get it?

[@sjsphotog]

agree if its not already available. come on you can ell it for $5-7 and youd get a zillion guys who want it and would love it. free the skin! free the skin!!!!

[@bl3313]

Funny how two down from the midpoint on 5-3 is now considered old-fashioned. In the 1970s, making the 3-point was what old guys had done in the 1920s-1950s. THAT was the old-fashioned play, the nice safe running play that doesn't expose a checker. 5-3 down wasn't just Magriel's idea - just about all the books in the 1970s recommended it. I think of it as the signature move of the 70s.

[@robmunro1065]

thx for video

[@dorongronski2328]

Hi Marc. Great video as always. I understand that there is a 2nd edition of your book "From Basics to badass" that was published in 2020. Amazon sells the 1st 2015 edition. Where can I buy the new edition? Continue the good work..

[@dorongronski2328]

Marc?...

[@thaumielbelial7345]

Great Stuff 🙏

[@tonyrodriguez2524]

Need a break from playing against the bot. Why is the board set up different than what is on the screen (1,2,3...)? Good discussion.

[@phononify]

in comparsion to chess there seems to be a quite limited backgammon literature -- has somebody a good web page that collects and reviews back gammon literature ... I am totally new to this game, but I think I like it ... thanks for your help and cheers from Zurich, Switzerland

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Start with From Basics to badass. After that you pick up Cube Like a Boss. There is plenty of material there to get you deep into the strategy of the game, you don't need 100 books. :)

[@marjoebriggs]

The reason they didn't like the split with the 5-2 was the fear of 5-5 as being so terrible. It was an irrational fear that many of the players of the time had. I talked to Barclay cook about it at the Renaissance Festival in Minnesota back in the 80's. He was there for a backgammon tournament.

[@memofrf]

Thank you.

[@HPPaviliondv51250]

Virkelig en go video Marc! Jeg håber du dessekerer hele hans bog! Vi tales ved. Hilsner AM

[@HeroWarsPhanatic]

I agree with Magriel, i usually do not play 5/3 as a prime/blitz set up.. splitting a 5/3 is more versitile i would rather have a pip on 10 to maybe set up a prime from the 8, 7 or 6.. there is only 1 in 18 chance shot to hit with a 6/3 or 5/4 The point of Magriels strategy is by having a pip on 10 can set up a prime structure blocking the opponent from escaping with rolling 6, 6/3, 5/4, 5/3 The reward is greater than the risk & even if you fail to make your prime, you can run for it or blitz ! Sometimes if my strategy is a run game then i will not play 6/1, 5/3, 4/2 as a prime set, sometimes i will split on purpose to provoke a Cube double so i can re-cube back

[@warrenz9226]

Marc what is the #1 recommended book for begenneners? Is there a modern version of Magriel's book that has taken AI rollouts into account?

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

The answer is definitely From Basics to Badass. There is no "updated" version of Magriel's book no...

[@katewild2194]

I think it comes down to who you are playing I played nine games today and won eight with the computer telling me in three of them I was super human I dont know about that but it's coming back

[@JoannaJedrzejczyksForehead]

Love it.

[@paradigmshift4686]

I still don't like the split to the 22, not so much because of 5-5 but because the front men are already 2 pts apart and the 2 split simply duplicates a lot of your own good numbers. The 2 down play for 5-2, however, offers so few extra good pointing rolls that i actually prefer slotting the four with 2, which gives up minimal hits, corrects the distribytion, and takes no risk with the back checkers. Computers may not like it but i am not a computer. 🤪

[@bobbyb5710]

xg gammon, it might be great program but the graphics man? it looks like graphic around beginning of 2000!

[@jjmckenna]

I want the XG skin, please. If I can’t have the Neptune board, at least I can pretend on XG! Very cool!

[@jjmckenna]

@@thamiosmgtow3678 Very cool, I purchased one!

[@RainBG]

Hi Marc, nice board 👍 The upgrade I sent you is even better! Here some more Hi-Res XG-Board skins : kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZ3KZnapatB4aZY Custom XG-Boards available; follow description below the video.

[@frankfarjood4080]

@@RainBG much appreciate your efforts to make the of XG same as galaxy. Kindly advise how I can get it. Much appreciate it

[@sjsphotog]

agree

[@benshenassa4594]

Great

[@VladBatrinu]

2 2?

[@Goldboy1975]

The Golden point will always be the Delhi point for me now.

[@greeneyeddevil1]

When Magriel did his analysis it was based on the odds of rolls. The computer algorithms of today seem based on the personal style of the progammer

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Not, not at all. Magriel did the same as the neural network does: rolling out positions. He gained his knowledge not just through experience, but through "scientific research". Also, he played a lot of "proposition moneygames", where you take a side in a take/pass decision, and play from the same position until one of the players quit.

[@adamsamer4085]

We just believe the old one

[@vicmajid973]

when did we nerds become fans?

[@BackgammonGalaxy]

Haha

[@tariqsiddiqi10]

It is the bible