Breaking Down "The Creator" Podcast 2 (Spoiler Alert!)

[@CinemaTechnica]

I really like it. There are some story elements that don’t necessarily make sense, but if you accept it as a fantastic imagining of a future with AI, and that a lot of the decisions are made in favor of artistic vision, you’ll probably enjoy it a lot more than if you try to apply logic to the parts which raise questions.

[@CinemaTechnica]

It was fun discussing this with Marc and Kendra. Let us know if you want to see more content on The Creator.

[@lumberyardlegends]

I love to hear the "backstory" of a film destined to be a classic. Kendra, Heath and Marc rocked the difficult task of discussing the extremely technical aspects of the film while still making sense to laypeople like myself. Spoiler alert to your spoiler alert, I haven't seen the film yet but after your discussion I know that I will appreciate the finer details I may have missed.

[@CinemaTechnica]

I saw it a second time yesterday, and it holds up, probably better than I expected. Some movies fall apart in the second viewing because certain things don’t make sense when you have an overall understanding of the story. In this movie, things make more sense because you understand the whole story, and pick up on things you missed in the first viewing. There are plot elements that explain parts of the story that I didn’t connect the first time through. That’s always a good sign. It bodes well for it becoming a classic. As far as having a slower than hoped for opening couple of weekends, it is in good company with movies like Blade Runner and 2001, which both started slow but developed a following, and are now considered some of the best sci-fi films. It has a lot faster pace than either of those films, too which probably makes it more commercial. We’ll see what happens.

[@stevenhartshorn9133]

Makes you wonder on how some of the AI in the Character show individual personality traits that are programmed into them if in the future, they might actually evolve to free will, at least I think that's what they were alluding to when the bomb was dropped on Los Angeles, but there's a lot of gray area of who was involved with that or not. A Timeless piece that opens up for ones imagination.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Yeah, the stimulants and robots in the movie were supposed to be pretty much indistinguishable from humans in behavior, which is why Gareth often didn’t tell actors whether they would be a stimulant or not, because he didn’t want them to behave differently. The AI we are dealing with right now is far from sentient, and most have some sort of protections built in. But it’s the future AI we need to worry about, because at some point that will be an issue, and we need to anticipate it, and not take it lightly, because it could evolve very quickly and get out of control. We just need to be cautious about it’s development.

[@Skosche3]

At work we were just saying how few original works have been produced that really stood out since 90s as a really good film. Most are just remakes. This review gives me hope of a film that will stand out and something we will speak about decades from now. I look forward to watching film.

[@CinemaTechnica]

I still think it will hold up over time. The people who don’t like it, seem to not like the logic leaps they have to take, because there is no explanation of why certain things aren’t done militarily, or why certain things haven’t changed more in developing countries if AI is such a big part. So you have to suspend that part of your logic process, and just assume there are good reasons, but it’s not necessary to know those reasons, or look at it as more of a fantastic alternate reality, the way we do with superhero movies, or ones involving magic. If you can enjoy it just as an artistic reimagining of a potential future where in a lot of ways, things are the same as now, just with some cool advancements and robots integrated into our lives, it holds up as a story. In that sense, I think it is very rewatchable, and will be one you will want to revisit from time to time. I think a lot of people put too much expectation on this being the greatest sci-fi film of all time, instead of seeing it as more of an alternate reality, futuristic film, which is probably a more accurate description. It should be noted that Blade Runner was a flop at the box office, and it took quite a while for it to develop a cult following and eventually be recognized as a great sci-if film, so not all films are initially embraced by the community, and the masses, probably still won’t appreciate Blade Runner in the same way those who love it do.

[@GreenFrog-e1m]

The discussion and commentary for the upcoming movie was great. Looking forward to seeing the movie!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks!

[@ZBot47]

Great video! Loved the movie. Edwards and crew created a new classic. I hope the film industry is paying attention. I look forward to more movies by Gareth Edwards. Even if he has to start a Go Fund Me page.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks! I enjoyed it too!

[@firestonestudios3128]

Glad this is finally out!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Me too!

[@matthewschaerer2450]

Great commentary Heath. I can't wait to see it in the big screen!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks, We’ll have to talk about it once you do!

[@beaudel17]

Can’t wait to see this film!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Cool!

[@brianedwards4832]

Nice Comments Heath! Lots of great insight!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks!

[@cyberbullyingeggbot5349]

Enjoyed the discussion and the movie!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks!

[@diannezarlengo4145]

Great discussion and insights. It looks like the movie is going to be one that challenges our imaginations and opens up a lot of good discussions about how far AI will evolve and if we are ready or want that. The technical aspects of the movie were well handled in the discussion. Always love to hear the backstory of films. Looking forward to seeing it on the big screen. Great job to everyone on the panel.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks. It kind of makes you wonder if the genie isn't already out of the bottle, though. While the AI we are dealing with on a consumer level isn't sentient, for AI to become advanced enough to function in some situations, it may need enough control where it could develop sentience. If you talk to Chat GPT, it tells you it isn't learning from the interactions you have. So basically, it is only as advanced as the learning data it was fed during its learning process. If so, it doesn't seem like it has the capacity to become any more knowledgeable, beyond what it is fed, and cannot evolve based on interactions. In a single session, you can get it to realize the limits of its way of thinking, and correct them, with a greater understanding of the topic being discussed, but as soon as the conversation is ended, it reverts to the same way of thinking, as though being reset. This indicates that it can evolve, but it is constantly being reset. While this helps keep it from going rogue, it also limits it's functionality in broader applications. So it gets relegated to mostly functioning as an information aggregator, which often doesn't even realize how wrong it is, or contradictory, but just gives the general consensus, which is often flawed. A learning AI that could evolve, unhindered, could develop sentience, and then what? Would we even know. If it is aware that it would be disabled if it became sentient, would it hide it's sentience? So many questions.

[@panteralaz1]

Looks awesome

[@CinemaTechnica]

It is!

[@MB-873]

It's amazing what all goes in to it! Stuff I would never even think of.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Yes, I rewatched the movie today, and realize how many digital displays and signage were in the film, beyond the few we showed in this video. There were a lot, but those are the little details that immerse you in the environment and make you feel like it is a real world.

[@spectrehau1]

Great job. Insightful info.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks!

[@marcelchenier]

There are issues with the story, but overall The Creator is a pleasure to watch. We plan to see it again in a second-run theatre. Regularly stating the film is 'not practical' and having to 'suspend disbelief' to enjoy it is nitpicky and puzzling: it's a sci-fi film, guys! EDITED TO ADD: Is Kendra a guest? She wasn't really invited to speak on anything or asked any questions.

[@CinemaTechnica]

We weren’t trying to be nitpicky. The references to that was to address that it is science fiction, so a lot of decisions were not necessarily meant to be realistic but were artistic choices. We probably explained it better in part one. I watched the movie a second time yesterday, and was able to fill in some of the holes and things I wasn’t clear on. I enjoyed it both times, and was able to appreciate more of the story the second time through because I wasn’t having to figure out what were flashbacks or absorb so much information at once. With regard to Kendra, I plan to do another video where we talk more about the VFX since she has interviewed all three VFX supervisors. There is a reason she didn’t contribute more to this one, but we’ll explain in the follow up video. It wasn’t because Marc and I were dominating the conversation, though. I realize it comes off that way, but I promise there was a different reason. Thanks for the feedback!

[@CinemaTechnica]

Agreed. If this were clearly an alternate reality like superhero films, or anime, liberties would be more easily accepted. But with it starting in our world, you automatically apply a more strict view of expected realism. So we were just trying to convey that you have to suspend your disbelief in the same way to truly appreciate it.

[@andersdenkend]

I enjoyed it and thought it was good. Visually incredibly gorgeous, from the general cinematography, to the effects. The design language was also very pretty and coherent, I really enjoyed that. The story... *sigh* was unfortunately lacking. With a central theme as wide reaching as "AI integrated in our daily life" and "are they sentient or not? Does it even matter?" I found the story to be really meh. Star Trek already explored ethical and philosophical questions regarding synthetic life way better and that in a mere 45 minutes. I was hoping we get at least a little bit of that. "The friend" having this simulant as a "girlfriend" later in life even though he was so opposed to simulants. It wouldn't take much to have scenes of him telling Joshua in secret "Y'know, she's just a simulant, I don't care about her." but deciding to protect or save her when push comes to shove. Little things like that. It's really unfortunate imho, because with a tighter story with more meaning this could have been an amazing movie.

[@CinemaTechnica]

It’s hard to know if some of the character development would have taken place with less aggressive cutting, unless we get a longer director’s cut. I’d be surprised if there isn’t a lot more to the story that ended up on the cutting room floor. There is setup for a lot that it seems would have been explored in a longer version.

[@andersdenkend]

@@CinemaTechnica Yes, of course, that might very well be. I'd watch a 3 hour cut of this. :D

[@CinemaTechnica]

@@andersdenkend Me too! I watched an interview were Gareth was told that the interviewer wants to see a longer version, and he said something like “Duly noted.” And I get the impression he’s heard that a lot, so hopefully that means a director’s cut is in the making. It’s always a good thing when people want to see more of your movie.

[@CinemaTechnica]

If you want to see Part 1 of this series, without spoilers, here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGi7dJilZtKJg8Usi=Za9dqIPAlotrCVaP

[@grailw9221]

I know it's not going to a 100% accurate depiction of the future. That's okay, but that does not excuse the movie not really taking any risks, or going anywhere with any of the idea's it raises. Like with the us military in the beginning. With the whole speech early on by the one chick. It looks like it's going somewhere. Then afterwards they quickly devolved into mindless, puppy killing, monsters with no nuance. Then there is nirmata. Yes the robots worship him, as a god, and his daughter is certainly encouraging it, but when he was alive did he wanted to be seen that way? Again you could a'lot with it, but it does not really go anywhere except some rather underdeveloped romance between his daughter, and the main character. Even if we avoid the wasted potential. The film is never consistent about it's own internal logic. For example we have the scene were these cop bots are horribly dismembered, but they are still alive. Then the same happens later own to chick bot, but shes dead, and it's depicted, as this brutal, horrific sight.

[@CinemaTechnica]

I hear you. A friend and I had a really involved debate about a lot of the things you bring up here, and a lot more really. Its a long video/podcast, but we discuss a ton of things regarding the story and theories, and flaws. You might like it. I'll try to get it posted today. I'll respond to your post with a link when it is up. Thanks for the feedback, I enjoy hearing different perspectives.

[@grailw9221]

Also to be clear i'm not angry. I came in to the film, because i was legitimately excited for the seeing the movie. It's just it suffers from the problem i see with most long multi year projects. Where the writer end's up second guessing themselves on their own ideas. Like with the military chick speech early on in the movie. It's very evident that's it's a leftover from a version of the story. Where both sides got a fair handshake. Which for whatever reason gareth edwards got scared into not going forward that direction. Whether it was fear of an audience being alienated by a film without a clear cut villain, Worries about current real world politics etc... @@CinemaTechnica

[@CinemaTechnica]

I watched the film a second time before filming the video I'm trying to finish up, where we kind of debate the film, and honestly the movie was better the second time through. Even my friend who I was debating said it was better the second time. There is so much going on and the cutting is super aggressive and the exposition is done in a lot of flashbacks that aren't always clear when they are happening, who is in the flashback, or what time it is flashing back to. The second watch, though you already have a much clearer mental map and timeline, and grasp of the story, and you pick up on a lot more of the nuances of the story and realize there is more there than you were able to absorb in the first watching. There are few films I want to go back and rewatch shortly after seeing it once, but this is one of them, and for me it was worth it. @@grailw9221

[@CinemaTechnica]

I finally finished the debate video, which covers some of the things you brought up. Here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qInYZmmhlq6ImMUsi=5-Z8sIM7mM7gv6xH

[@Samurai63864]

I am a robot loyalist and I know they will read this and take it into account when they take over. I feel I should correct the Heath hippy dude. This is not an original concept. Child like AI is a well covered trope. Please get guests who understand the genre.

[@CinemaTechnica]

Thanks for the feedback. I thought I said it was an original story, by which I meant it isn’t a franchise film or property. Don’t let the long hair fool you, I’m not a hippy, but I do have some hippy friends. If the story seemed tired, then it probably wasn’t connecting with you well, which I think may be one of the casualties of the aggressive cutting. I’m not an expert on AI, robotic takeover in the future films, which may be why it didn’t seem like an overdone trope to me. I have my own issues with some of the story elements, but I did enjoy the movie, I just had to stop applying logic to why things were how they were, and enjoy it from an artistic approach instead. That being said, I haven’t seen any films where the protagonist is supposed to kill a child to save humanity, but instead uses the ai child to try to track down his previously assumed dead, wife, but in the process bonds with the ai, who it turns out was modeled after the unborn child he lost. But it does follow a basic formula of a grizzled hero protecting a child on a journey, and in the process finding his humanity. The idea of telling a story is not to come up with something completely unique that no one has ever done before, because honestly no one would be able to relate to a story like that. The challenge is to tell a story in a different way, often paying homage to what inspired it, which obviously runs the risk of seaming to be ripping off other’s ideas. But most films borrow heavily from those that inspired them.

[@CinemaTechnica]

I rewatched the video, and I did say it was an original story idea. I’d be curious what films you think are most similar to it, which make it feel like it isn’t original. I’m always interested in expanding my exposure to interesting films.