Breakthrough Photography x4 ND Filter vs B&W Neutral Density Filters: Are They Color Neutral?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Do you use ND filters in you photography....and if so what brands? Have you noticed any color casts when using them? What has your experience been?

[@rachel7550]

I’m wanting to order a breakthrough x4cpl since I have no filters at this point (I’m a newb to photography).. And it seems useful in multiple situations. What stops of ND filters or fun filters would you recommend in addition to the cpl? Thanks!!

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@rachel7550 hi Rachel....sorry I missed your question yesterday. The only filters I use these days are polarizers and neutral density filters. I have a 3, 6, and 10 stop ND but if I had to choose just one I’d get the 6 stop. I’d also recommend finding the filter size of your largest lens (or the largest lens you anticipate buying in the near future) and buy your filters in that size along with however many step up rings you need for other sized lenses. Excuse me if you already know this (but I’ll explain since you said you were new to photography). If your largest lens filter size is 82mm then buy 82mm filters. If you have say a lens with a 77mm filter then buy a 77 to 82 step up ring. The 77 side screws into the 77 mm filter sized lens snd then you can use your 82mm filter, which now screws into the front of the step up ring. That way you don’t have to buy multiple versions of the same expensive filters. Plus it’s less confusing to find the filter you need!

[@rachel7550]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 yes I just recently learned of the lense attachment that allows you to use the same filter for multiple lense! Luckily I only have one lense right now since it was so expensive lol... just trying to decide on which filter brands to buy from. I’ve heard great things about breakthrough and firecrest, which brands do you like best? Thanks for responding!!!

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@rachel7550 hi Rachel. I’m not familiar with Firecrest so I can’t really help you out there. I can tell you what I use, which is Breakthrough Photography for NDs and B+W for circular polarizers. I tried the Breakthrough polarizer but didn’t like it because it required too much force to turn the polarizer in order to adjust it. So much so that it was very difficult to unscrew it from the lens. By the way, also buy a filter wrench for overtightening like that which is easy to occur. A pair of two is like five dollars.

[@rachel7550]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 awesome that is good to know thank you!!! I will probably need the wrench since I ended up ordering just 1 polarizing from breakthrough to start my filter collection with. Lol 😅

[@jean-francoisrenard8591]

i am very happy because i bought the breakthrough and i realize the great quality of this filter

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks so much for watching and commenting. Glad you agree. Hope you found the color comparison useful.

[@leonchen4065]

Thanks for the video Howard. After watching your video, I've decided on purchasing the X4 6stop filter along with step up rings.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Let me know what you think once you’ve had a chance to try it out!

[@Mikhail_S_P]

Thank you for your comparing, but this two different categories. If you want testing BP X4 please take B+W XS Pro MRC NANO and same way with B+W MRC with BP X2. You will get math better compare and less difference result.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks Mikhail. I suppose that’s possible but I used what I had and the differences were really quite large. Can’t say what would have happened with the NANO.

[@poppincam]

I agree. The break through had a cool cast and it's kind of bad

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Not exactly my conclusion 😊

[@poppincam]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 everyone else posting about breakthrough color cast. It's way off. But if you don't see it. Good for you. Also which version of b+w did you test it with ?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@poppincam not how right now so I’ll have to check which one. What I do know is that (to me) the B+W had a warm, almost muddy color cast while the Breakthrough gave a more pleasing and neutral result. Looked to me like the scene in front of me looked. But we all have different likes and dislikes. That’s what makes the world go round. As for me, I’ll stick with the Breakthrough. When it comes to polarizers I prefer the B+W.

[@papabear7875]

Great video. I was looking for ND 6 stop filter. I already had 3 stop ND B+W. Initially I was thinking just go buy B+W 6 stop. Now I am considering breakthrough ND 6 stop. Will you recommend X2 vs X4, the price are big difference? I look up X2- H-K9L is BK7 glass wafers. product of Japan and X4- SCHOTT Superwhite B270 optical glass. product of Germany. The Japanese Optical glass is also a very high-quality optical glass with a very similar light transmission - 99.6% versus the German Schott B270’s 99.8% light transmission. But X4 cost 70% more than X2. What's your experience with X2 ?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks for taking the time to comment! Unfortunately I have only used the X4, but not the X2, so it’s not something I can really comment on very well. The video was done with the X4.

[@papabear7875]

Which ND would be more useful 6 stop or 10 stop base on your experience?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

For most general use I would say the six stop. I mean there are times you might want three or ten stops but the six is probably the most versatile. It’s the one I reach for most frequently.

[@PaulFaracePhotography]

Wow quite the difference! Excited to get my BP ND6 in a few days! Great video Howard!

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks a Paul. I was really surprised at the difference in color rendition. And B&W is a really good brand.

[@ExploringWorldYouTube]

Nice video, thanks to share it. Out of curiosity: If I like to shoot video in 4K in sunny days, is it better Polarizing Breakthrough 62mm X4 Dark 3-Stop or Breakthrough X4 62mm Neutral Density 3-Stop. I'd like to always leave the filter attached to the camera for all shoots. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

I wish I could help with a wise suggestion. The only video I shoot is for these KZbin tutorials so I don’t have any experience shooting ‘art’ video nor in using polarizers for video. I just don’t want to give you advice on something in which I have no experience.

[@dennisplotzke467]

Very information video. I’m about to purchase my 1st ND filter and would like to know if it’s better to get one that fits my largest lens so I can use it with a step-up adapter? I would primarily be using it with my wide angle lens that has 16mm-35mm, but it may be useful with my other zoom lens that has 24mm-105mm with a larger thread. What’s your opinion on this matter? I would have to use the step-up with the wide angle lens since it has smaller threads than the mid-range zoom.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Hi Dennis, and thanks for commenting. I went with the purchase of the largest lens diameter and using a step down ring, as you suggest. Then it becomes much simpler because you can only buy one filter of each density. However, because of the unusual situation where your widest angle lens would require the step down ring, that could potentially cause a problem with vignetting at wider focal lengths. However given that the filter is a larger size than needed for that lens the problem may be less than anticipated or even, hopefully, nonexistent. I think the only way to know is to try it out. My guess is that you MIGHT be ok.

[@arianakhan6665]

I've been hearing excellent things about Breakthrough, thank you for this very informative comparison Howard. If I may ask, which polarizer do you favor?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Hi Ariana. I actually purchased the Breakthrough polarizer and returned it. The rings are pretty tight and you have to use a bit of force to turn the polarizer ring. In doing so, depending on the direction you turn it the filter got really tight on the lens and was very hard to remove. I contacted them about this and they said they do it on purpose so that the polarizer doesn’t accidentally turn. That’s a problem I never had. Anyway I use B+W polarizers and like them. Thanks for stopping by!

[@arianakhan6665]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 Thank you so much Howard, that was enlightening. I'm leaning toward Kase filters. They have an all magnetic system for polarizers and NDs which are easy to put on and turn, and a square filter system which retains the magnetic polarizer so easy to put on and turn on its own, and their filter holder also has a mechanism for turning. It seems perfect for me.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@arianakhan6665 let me know how you like it. I’ve entertained the idea of getting a magnetic system because it seems so much easier to use. But the thought or rebuying all my NDs and a polarizer is a bit of a deterrent

[@daltonrandall4348]

The color cast information is helpful, but you never answered the question of the exposure difference. You should have removed the filter and then increased your shutter speed by 6 stops to see if it matched the B+W filter, the Breakthrough Photography filter, or neither.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

True…though at the time my biggest concern was the color cast as some difference in the number of stops seemed to be an easier issue to deal with in the field. But you’re right, I should have.

[@ExplorerMelanie]

Thanks Howard, that was really helpful! Your photos are very beautiful.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks so much Melanie! I appreciate that....just enjoyed your bird watching video

[@ExplorerMelanie]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 glad you liked that one!

[@purplengold983]

Thank you for the info

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

My pleasure. Glad it was useful.

[@WalterStinnettPhotography]

Very informative video, Howard! I enjoyed your approach. This really helped in seeing the differences between the two brands. I use cheap ICE filters from Amazon. They leave a color cast but it hasn't been anything that I couldn't easily fix in post. I will definitely get Breakthrough filters if I should ever upgrade.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Thanks Walter! The color casts are not too difficult to correct in post, as you say. I haven’t done any comparisons on other things like sharpness but without pixel peeping they look very comparable. I do like the Breakthrough ones and, while they aren’t cheap, I buy the largest size I would need and use a step up ring so I just buy it once. They have great customer service as well....I’m not an affiliate or associated with them, just like their product. Glad you liked the video!

[@dodgeman10520001]

Some of you may not realize this, but the warranty isnt worth the paper its wrote on. I bought 3 of their filters because of the warranty. The last one I bought was the night sky filter. Less than 2 years after buying it, the coating was cracking everywhere on the lens. Figured this wasnt a big deal since I thought it had such a great warranty. Turns out the warranty is only on the frame! I was told by customer service that the coating isnt covered under warranty. Send it in with MORE money and they will put a new glass in it. Horrible company and will never purchase or promote their crap again. If you need a filter, buy from a reputable company. NOT THIS ONE

[@daltonrandall4348]

@@dodgeman10520001 Which company? He is comparing two of them and you didn't indicate which you had a problem with.

[@dodgeman10520001]

@@daltonrandall4348 breakthrough photography is the company I had the problem with

[@daltonrandall4348]

@@dodgeman10520001 Thanks, that's disappointing to hear.

[@JB-ou6fl]

This video is very helpful. I just liked and subscribed. Do you recommend using a lens hood with an ND filter?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

I think the answer is.....it depends :) If you have one set of ND filters to fit your largest diameter lens (like I do) then you can't always use a lens hood anyway because it won't fit over the filters. In addition, it depends on how the hood fits and whether or not it causes vignetting. I am sure you now that the act of staking multiple filters can cause vignetting (depending on the focal length of the lens. So I will use the hood if it fits and doesn't seem to cause vignetting. Thanks for subscribing. I apprciate it!

[@JB-ou6fl]

Thanks for the tips! 😊

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@JB-ou6fl My pleasure!

[@Crispy_Bee]

Too bad we don't have the image without any filter at all and we don't see the white balance setting... so it's very hard to judge how it should look. I recently had a similar experience with a Zeiss CPL and the B+W - at first I thought the B+W had a warm colour cast until I shot some images without any filter at all. That made me realize that the B+W was actually closest to the true colors of the scene and I only "wanted" it to look cooler because it suited the image. Also the ZEISS was quite a bit darker but the polarization was very much the same (maybe even better with the B+W). So without knowing how the original scene looked and what white balance settings you used it's not a very good comparison. You should also consider that there are many (and I do mean many!) fake B+W filters on the market and those will definitely have issues with color casts and they definitely won't be a 6 stop strength. So maybe you should try to verify the filter next time, B+W have a tool for that on their website.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

All valid points. The B+W I’m sure is real and the reason I moved to Breakthrough is that I disliked the warm cast that was present every time I used it for long exposures and it never matched what the scene looked like to me. Obviously everyone will have certain likes and dislikes when it comes to colors and also view colors differently. But to my eyes it just never matched up right. But others have said what you do in the comments. I can only say what things look like to me.

[@Crispy_Bee]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 Well as I wrote, it would be more convincing if we had a direct comparison. From what I've seen so far there should be 0 color cast but I'll be able to check myself in a few days :)

[@Crispy_Bee]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 actually I was just able to confirm with a B+W ND64 82mm MRC Nano XS-Pro that there is zero perceptible color cast. I assume your Breakthrough Photography x4 ND Filter does have a slight blue color shift (which is a known issue with the x2 version as depicted in many videos like this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJq1kKysjZKIjaM). Perhaps the Breakthrough filters have changed their formula or there are a lot of variations between batches.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@Crispy_Bee the Breakthrough I have and used is an x4 so I really can’t speak to the x2. Don’t know what else to say. You see what you see and I see what I see. Have to wait till I get home to see if my B+W is a Nano XS-Pro. I’ve had it for a while so might not be the newest version. Maybe. Have to check.

[@Crispy_Bee]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 That's also a possibility! I'm not sure when the Nano was released, I just got mine today :)

[@jiajianhou426]

have you tried it without the polarizer? almost all other sources say the B+W is the best ND filter on the market.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Yes, I have tried with and without. The B+W always seems to give me a warm cast. Seems pretty consistent.

[@jiajianhou426]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 thanks! I just tried mine and it does have the tiniest warm cast.

[@JB-ou6fl]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 I suspect that your B+W is the older version. Based on my research, the older B+W ND filters such as the F-Pro seem to cause a color shift. This is consistent with what you showed on your video. However, the newer B+W XS-Pro MRC Nano ND Filter should not cause any color shift. It is about the same quality as the Breakthrough X4 based on what I've read. The advantage of the X4 in my opinion is the knurled ring because it will be easier to put on and remove. The XS-Pro has a smooth ring.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@JB-ou6fl It is quite possible that you are correct. The B+W filters I have were purchased a number of years ago.

[@JuanLopez-oz9kh]

Can you post the link to the filters. You can benefit from it.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

I have no connection and I’m not an affiliate so I don’t benefit. But glad to share the link: breakthrough.photography/products/x4-neutral-density?variant=30850759633

[@tomscott4438]

Exactly which B+W filter did you use? They have three 6-stop ND filters and they are vastly different in terms of price and color cast.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

Hi Tom, and thanks for taking the time to comment. The B+W filters say F-Pro and have MRC. They were the most expensive ones, I believe, when I bought them. Admittedly, that are several years old but they are what I had and were considered top of the line (again, at the time I purchased them).

[@tomscott4438]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 Thanks for the reply. Pretty sure those are the ones going for $169 over and B&H. They stopped carrying Breakthrough Technology but I'm fairly certain that has to do with Adorama forming some sort of distribution partnership with them. Thanks for doing a simple but complete comparison. So many KZbin channels simply have a point to make and skew the tests or the brand comparisons to help make their point.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@tomscott4438 glad you found it useful Tom! I’m not an affiliate for either brand and have no axe to grind with either one. Just trying to make something useful that demonstrated my experience. I realize it may not be the purest scientifically controlled demonstration, but it was my real world experience that was repeatable. I actually wish the B+W had filled my needs…I mean who wants to go out and spend cash on replacing or upgrading filters lol. Thanks for taking the time to comment!

[@ericbell7529]

What brand CPL were you using?

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

B+W

[@dodgeman10520001]

Breakthough Photography Filters, Some of you may not realize this, but the warranty isnt worth the paper its wrote on. I bought 3 of their filters because of the warranty. The last one I bought was the night sky filter. Less than 2 years after buying it, the coating was cracking everywhere on the lens. Figured this wasnt a big deal since I thought it had such a great warranty. Turns out the warranty is only on the frame! I was told by customer service that the coating isnt covered under warranty. Send it in with MORE money and they will put a new glass in it. Horrible company and will never purchase or promote their crap again. If you need a filter, buy from a reputable company. NOT THIS ONE

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

I have to say that I have not had any problems with the Breakthrough filters I have purchased. That said, I have no connection to the company and if what you say is true (and I have no reason to think it isn’t) than that is definitely a huge strike against them.

[@dodgeman10520001]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 If youtube allowed photo uploads I would love to post the close up pic I took of it. Its got cracks all over it. Originally noticed after realizing a night shot I took had some odd marks on it. Figured the filter must have been dirty so I cleaned it and held it to light and saw all the cracks. Breakthrough ask for pics of the filter, (knew this wasnt a good start for warranty) and they informed me the coating isnt covered. Really upset over that. Post a review at Adorama including the closeup pic and Adorama wouldnt even post the review. Not happy with them either

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

@@dodgeman10520001 Weird that Adorama wouldn't let you post it. That's too bad!

[@dodgeman10520001]

@@howardgrillphotography2280 They didnt say I couldnt post it or block anything, they just didnt add the review. I just happened to check the reviews a couple weeks after posting and it wasnt there. Only the positive ones. Gives me a lower opinion of Adorama

[@SubiTrekker]

I've heard that B+W makes the Breakthrough filters under contract. Hard to believe they would make them better than their own brand. But, then Nikon has Sony make their sensors to Nikon's specs, and they are different/better. So, who knows.

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard that. Would really be interesting if that were the case.

[@carlinifoto]

First its B+W... not B&W... Maybe your thinking of A&W...lol...Second...I don't get any color cast using my B+W ND Filters. B+W are German made by Schneider Kreuznach who have been making some of the best and sharpest Lens optics for Still and Motion picture photography for over 100 years. I certainly trust German made filters with Optical Schott glass for my professional needs, much more then some unknown company that has only been around since 2015. Was this video a true comparison or a promo for Breakthrough? Hmmmm Very Interesting....

[@howardgrillphotography2280]

It was a true comparison Gino...I’m not on anyone’s payroll and don’t get any free product. I have always gotten a color cast with the B+W (sorry for the &) neutral density filters. I use B+W circular polarized which I actually like better than the Breakthrough. I couldn’t use the Breakthrough because they were so tight to turn they would get stuck in the step up ring and I returned it. Don’t know why I get the color cast and you don’t but I’m just reporting my experience.

[@mychanneltoletyouknow]

Wow, did she just troll a nonmonotized ND filter review on youtube? I wish had that kinda time. 😂🤣😅 Thanks for sharing Howard. Nice work!