Breeding Ball Pythons; Thermoregulation in Snakes

[@11royals96]

Jumped on this and was not disappointed. Very informative, well presented and gives me lots to think about. Thank you.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Glad you enjoyed it. I had hoped it would be thought provoking without being too extreme. I'll touch on this thermoregulation/behavior topic again when I do the Malaka Reptile Sanctuary Video.

[@Bildgesmythe]

I love your scientific approach to husbandry.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. Hope you enjoyed the video.

[@marcusmaldonado7919]

Just clarified something I was experiencing with my snakes. Once fed, after a hour or so, they would leave there hide (heat tape under hide) and either curl up on top of the hide or behind it. Great information, thank you.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Marcus. Now you know why they do this. That's awesome. When I see my snakes doing things I don't quite understand, it always makes me want to know why they are doing it. What am I missing. What do they know that I don't know or didn't see. In snakes its always subtle.

[@johnwilliams2171]

What he said ... cant fault your logic here Sir .. cheers

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi John. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@Valheru808]

Im in the USA, and it does get cold where I live. I only have 1 python, and she is in a pvc enclosure. The temp in the cooler end is 27C and that is where she normally goes after eating, and will spend at least the next 24 to 48 hours there. I thought it was odd compared to what I was always told, but I didnt think she would do it if it was uncomfortable or caused problems. Thanks for this video!

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Kyle. Gotta love it when we observe something, put it out in a video and people say, yes my snake does that too.

[@lazywolfreptiles]

As always, Rob, I appreciate your approach to sharing this information. The observations you’ve made about the heat being generated by the metabolic processes within the snake is something many of us - especially those of us in colder climates with artificial heat sources - could just completely overlook. And your thoughts about their behaviors in the wild are also spot on and thought-provoking. Thanks for continuing to share your carefully considered observations and conclusions, Rob. You do much for this community of ours!

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thanks Chris. There are far more subtle little details to these animals than I ever imagined from the information available on line and presented in most KZbin videos. Deep diving into scientific research is not everyone's cup of tea and sometimes it can be difficult to understand what the research is actually saying. I hope that by allowing my snakes to demonstrate for us, in a climate that replicates pretty much their natural climatic conditions, little things we might not notice become a bit more obvious. They are still captive snakes and will not behave exactly as wild snakes do, but I think by removing at least some of the environmental constraints that can massively impact our snakes behavior, we can get a glimpse of how they behave under different circumstances. I find this aspect of keeping and breeding these animals absolutely fascinating.

[@carlhoppe]

Great video Rob! Absolutely learned a great deal! Thank you!

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Carl. I know this subject has been the topic of a great deal of discussion in our offline chats. It has massive implications for the way we keep and breed our snakes, especially in detail. We don't always agree, but discussion and an open mind is healthy discussion. I wish I had the open mind part! The point of the video was to allow the snakes to demonstrate their abilities without the obvious influence that heat mats can have. Many people may have seen this "behavior" but attributed it to something else because heat mats have masked the small temperature differences we are talking about. A degree here, a degree there, but for the snake itself very important. I had to wait for a very special set of circumstances in my snake room to remove some of the other possible variables to show this. Anyone that watches this video is going to go away and think about it, watch their snakes in more detail, decide if it applies and perhaps discard it or perhaps make small changes to better suit their snakes. I don't expect everyone to "do as I do", but if seeds are planted and they take root, things grow from there. I hope I achieved that without upsetting too many folks!

[@bandsreptiliachris9274]

👏 👏 👏 bravo. Great video Robert! Always love ur approach. Even after all the yrs in this industry there are so many things we have yet to learn. Mother nature is amazing. Thank u

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Chris. Never stop learning. Never stop questioning what we think we know. These animals know better than we do.

[@tullysoutregiusroyals]

Beautifully articulated Rob, as allways. We have spoken about this topic at length and this video this will link in very nicely to my next video (maternal incubation Part 3) going live this Sunday and part 4 coming soon. Sorry, shameless plug i know but it is relevant to this topic. My video was uploaded before you had uploaded this one yet the results we are sharing, show a identical pattern. (my maternal incubations female's surface temp went up 2 degrees (Fahrenheit) after eating.) "cold-blooded" indeed🤣 It's ammazes me just how wrong our the hobbies general understanding of BP behaviour/bioligy is. As a community we tend to consistently settle on a assumption that it is folly when the answers are staring us directly in the face. The bowl wrapping is a perfect example of this. If this video causes a upset it is only a testament of the ignorance and egotism of today's BP Breeders. I strive to Persue what is true by observing with both eyes open and what you have shared is absolutely rock solid in my mind now thanks to this video. Well done Rob, another golden nugget here, perhaps maybe even platinum .👍🙌

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Joe. Only rarely do "theories" receive multiple confirmation from multiple sources like this video has. Your maternal incubation video goes hand in hand with my video and I would encourage all my subscribers to go over and take a look at your videos on your maternal incubation. The fact that your incubating female ate at all is myth busting in its own right. The fact that she had a metabolic boost and an exothermic reaction after doing so makes perfect sense. They know what's going on and how it works even if we fail to notice. So much still to learn about these animals. What I need to do now is look at estivation. The 1000gm wall. A snake that hasn't eaten in months. I'll need to wait for the same conditions as before, a cool spell where everything settles out at 28C and there is no radiated heat from the outside walls to warm the snake up and then check what the temperature of a snake is who's metabolism has slowed to tick over. I suspect it will be ambient, but these snakes are full of surprises, and they have shown they do have some capacity to regulate their temperatures from within, so lets wait and see if I can check this aspect as well.

[@julieford4491]

Great video Thank you 🙂 We have gotten rid of all our heat mats and have dedicated a room as a reptile room at 88 Fahrenheit. They love it, we have had dozens of successful clutches.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Julie. That's awesome. I think the snakes prefer it to heat mats. They don't have to move around to be comfortable.

[@MPRbyHamlin]

Fascinating information and in a great deal of manners, it makes perfect sense. I've had advice and criticism over the temperatures of my snakes, everyone has this opinion over their own temps and husbandry, in hopes for an edge.. or something over other keepers. The fact is that we seem to completely bypass the intelect of the animal, and do what we think is in the best intrest for the animal to survive.. including weird temperature schedules etc. This video and science as backed some of my own discoveries. I have 1/3 of my tub at 30°c and this lowers naturally over the remaining 2/3 of the tub to my rooms ambient temperature of around 22°c and my snakes move there hides to where they want to be and will actively seek and temperature within that gradient, that they desire at any given time. Outside influences such as people and devices.. may warm up my room, however the hot spot is thermostatically controlled to not drop below or rise above 30 degrees. Now with what you have given us in this video it makes perfect sense, when I consider some of the characteristics my snakes display. It is not uncommon for my snakes to coil up on the coolside after meals, and again they are still active. After a burst of energy there temperatures will rise and unlike us humans who can sweat to manage our temperatures, they need to use an area or object to do the same thing. This was an amazing eye-opener.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

I love the comment about the snake being comfortable in its hide but wanting a slightly different temperature than where you originally put the hide, so it adjusts its position to stay comfortable and takes its hide with it. There are many different set-ups that will allow these snakes to thrive, but experience has taught me not to expect them to display behavior "we" think they should. Set-ups with artificial heat will always drive the behavior of a snake who's body temperature can actually vary from its own activities. Of course they will seek out a "comfort zone" which might not be what some of our preconceived ideas anticipated. These snakes are constantly surprising me with subtle little things they do that always have a reason.

[@salanbe5696]

Nice Video :) I miss only the 'negative control' to prove the theory. Taking a temperature of a snake that is neither digesting nor building would be great prove. Thank you 😊

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. Not necessarily, but i get the point. Snakes have an elevated metabolism for up to 3 weeks after eating. Following that, they have two fat glands that can sustain them for months if necessary. Building females continue to build even when they stop eating and can maintain higher than ambient temperature during egg incubation even after 3 months of no eating. What i think we need is one of those snakes that goes into estivation and doesnt eat for months. It "should" have slowed its metabolism and be at ambient temperature, provided it is not absorbing radiated heat from the walls. Let me see if i can get some video of that to see what the reality is.

[@c1h2r3i4s56987]

As an animal decays, it releases heat, which raises body temps of a snake during digestion of a meal.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Decay is digestion of organic components by bacteria, another exothermic process which requires additional oxygen and yes releases heat. Digestion is a little different in that the animal wants the nutrients from the food it eats rather than the bacteria getting it. Food does not "decay" in the gut unless the snake is too cold to kickstart digestion and when this happens it can cause septicemia or blood poisoning of the animal from the byproducts of bacterial action. Digestion is a quicker process using digestive fluids including powerful acids together with enzymes produced in the stomach to break down the food and release the nutrients for absorbtion. Digestion does require "friendly" bacteria to assist in breakdown of some elements of the meal so it can be absorbed through the lining of the digestive tract. wikidiff.com/decay/digestion As nouns the difference between decay and digestion is that decay is the process or result of being gradually decomposed (mainly by bacteria) while digestion is the process, in the gastrointestinal tract, by which food is converted into substances that can be utilized by the body.

[@c1h2r3i4s56987]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls oh I was using decay and digestion as interchangeable, I thought it was one of the same just, one process had a catalyst with the stomach contents ( acids enzymes, bacteria ) Thanks you much !

[@1stimereefer]

Well, this certainly explains bowl tipping and wondering why males are wrapped around the bowl! And I was thinking, of course, they were just trying to regulate humidity, even though humidity is in range, now I know otherwise. Also means the smaller heat tape is probably better than a 4” heat tape for snakes. We had our first clutches ever this year, 2, and both the first year mama and veteran normal laid 9 large eggs with no slugs. Not changing the temps here!

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. Can't argue with results! Don't change anything. At least now it gives a different perspective on what our snakes are doing and why. It's something else to watch for in our husbandry.

[@sammythai99]

Excellent video. Very intriguing and helpful.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thanks Samantha. There is more to this theme than I included in the video. I'll continue with this subject when we visit the Malaka Reptile Sanctuary and look at some big snakes outdoors.

[@sammythai99]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls I can't wait to learn more.

[@laurablockley1269]

Another great video. I wish I could do ambient temperatures in a similar way to you. It’s much more natural for them. Every time this conversation comes up I check my temps and I believe my hot spots are normally between 30-31 C with a cold end of around 26C. I have noticed a male of mine who when provided with a hide choses they middle of the tub which is likely around 28-29 C but without one he hides at the back. I wonder if some people confuse a snakes need for higher temperature with their preference for hiding at the back of the tub. I don’t breed many clutches as you know but haven’t had a slug yet. I believe there is also a fear in the U.K. that temperatures lower than 31.5-32 contribute towards RIs. I have also heard it said that that too high humidity and dampness breed germs which in turn increases risk of RIs. I don’t imagine you experience many RIs in your collection.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Laura. Interesting observations on your male. He does different things when he is faced with a choice. Inevitably the back of the tub is both the safest and most secure location and its also usually the location of the hot spot. I wonder what we would see if convention had our hot spots at the front? I'm guessing we would see far fewer snakes hugging the hot spot and a lot more snakes at the back of the tub for security. We mistake this as a requirement for heat. I'm going to double down on temperatures. 32C is too warm for these animals and in all cases in my snake room every single snake is showing restlessness and aversion at much over 31C. It's also dangerously close to the kill zone for sperm. 33C can kill sperm in the males and stored sperm in the females. RI's are almost unheard of out here with these ambient conditions. I have heard of animals kept outdoors getting RI after a tropical rain storm when they may have been rapidly chilled. Also in males that are being heavily bred. RI also isn't caused by high humidity, since my snakes are quite happy in 70/80% relative humidity all year round. Humidity is not the enemy. Condensation is what causes issues. With adequate ventilation, everything in my snake room remains bone dry. The humidity is in the air, not dripping down the sides of the tub. Snakes shed perfectly almost every time under these high ambient humidity readings, even though inside the tubs is dry and I don't need to spray down. If we are using heat mats in our tubs, but our ambient temperature in the room is low, we are inevitably going to suffer condensation at the cool end of the tub and its liquid water that causes issues, not humidity. I avoid condensation at all costs. RI is a bacterial infection and the bacteria are present in the snakes respiratory tract all the time. It's also very humid in their respiratory tract all the time! Like our own respiratory tract. Our snakes will also carry bacteria in their guts. All animals do, including ourselves. In fact many bodily functions could not occur without bacteria. Normally the bacteria are kept in check by a very powerful immune system and for a healthy snake pose no problem. Just as our own bacteria cause us no issues, most of the time. However, if a snake gets stressed - poor environmental parameters, overbreeding, stress from unaccustomed handling - their immune systems can be compromised and the bacteria multiply to problematic levels. Stress alone will do it. Viral infection will also compromise the immune system and a symptom of viral infection can be RI. Note RI is a symptom, not the cause. In almost all cases the cause is something else and the RI is a secondary symptom of another problem. So to say temperature or humidity causes the RI is almost certainly failing to diagnose the real problem. We can treat RI with antibiotics, but we cannot treat viral infection or poor husbandry with antibiotics. We treat the symptoms until the snakes own immune system or the owner tackles the real issue.

[@laurablockley1269]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls yes definitely agree we might see different behaviour if our hot spots were at the front instead of at the back. With regards to temperatures how people manage them is likely different as well depending on what type of substrate people use. Using coconut husk means my temperatures on top of the substrate are lower than measuring the bottom of the tub. Therefore I always have to make sure I check both. I do also think providing a variety of hides and or corkbark/plants for extra cover in a tub helps the snakes to feel like they can choose the preferred temperature without feeling like they have to hide at the back. Again that’s effected by the type of rub set up. One of my racks have clear rubs and is a little more open than the other so I’m sure the snakes feel more exposed in that environment hence why I provide them with more cover. Some snakes need more cover than others as well. I’m not surprised you have less RIs over there and your response was what I expected. I agree it’s condensation that is the issue rather than the humidity. And I don’t think people think enough about ventilation either. We have racks here where holes aren’t supposed to be required but I add holes and sometimes still have condensation when increasing humidity in the tub for shedding time therefore I make an effort to wipe down the condensation every day to prevent it lingering.

[@newforestmorphs1377]

Very helpful Rob. Makes complete sense as demonstrated by your snake behaviour. Since we fine tuned our temps our slug rate has dropped from last year. Still some room for improvement. Explains why some snakes tip their water bowls and like to soak or bowl wrap when building or breeding. I find the biggest challenge is maintaining ambient temps in the U.K. with seasonal variations.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Paul. Glad you found time to watch this video. I know you struggled initially in your facility to fine tune your parameters and its always going to be a process of adjusting and fine tuning. Slugs can be caused by a number of things, not all temperature related. But here's some things to watch for. Ambient temperature spikes during your summers when your facility gets warmer than 31/32C. You'll need to buffer or cool your facility to prevent this. Access to hot spots too hot. Prolonged access to hot spots that are marginal. If your snakes camp out for long periods on hot spots that are 32C, I think this can also be damaging. This affects not just the males but females also storing sperm from successful locks prior to ovulation can also inadvertently kill the sperm just when its most needed. I run temperatures at 29C with no access to temperatures as high as 32C despite being in the tropics with very similar climate to West Africa where these animals are from. Yes, the tropics can be warmer than that, but these animals never expose themselves to extremes. A Ball Python at 32C is an uncomfortable Ball Python. My snakes don't have seasons. This is a feature of temperate climates and is not natural for tropical snakes. I don't cool. I don't cycle night time temperatures. I don't believe tropical wild snakes experience it either. My snakes breed just fine without this "necessity". I get very few slugs. I can usually count them on one hand in a season. Stay on top of parameters inside the snake room, keep everything as stable as possible, but when its cold and stormy outside, pair em up because they will respond to what's happening outside.

[@newforestmorphs1377]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls made some mat adjustments today. And checked the temps of all our snakes. 28 to 29 degrees is very comfortable for them. The majority were at 29. Jared and I use a gradient and the snakes park themselves where they feel most comfortable. We keep an eye on ambient temps too and adjust up and down with our facility heaters. We appreciate your additional information on slugs and breeding. It’s very much a learning curve and we are certainly making steps in the right direction. I feel we need to reset our breeding plans for next year and hopefully we have more breeding pairs that can enter the rotations, some exciting projects as our grow ons are looking good and our projects are starting to get more and more exciting. The salmon season is almost over for us and it’s been a good end to the season. I’m swimming every day in prep for my hip op. Hopefully all goes well and I get a new lease of life. We have 20 eggs in the incubator with one more girl to lay. August should be an exciting month as the clutches will start to pip. Hope your season is going well.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Paul. I find it odd that my snakes prefer 28/29C, almost everyone I speak to, their snakes are at 28/29C. So why do we give them 32C? Where does 32C come from? How was it determined? I think I know. They're cold blooded right? They need to thermoregulate, which means we interpret that to mean they need a hot spot hotter than their preferred temperature and a cool spot cooler than their preferred temperature so they can move around and/or choose. Perhaps it comes from daily maximum and minimum temperature figures for their native environment. This is not how our snakes behave. Its not the temperatures they expose themselves to. And it ignores the fact they can actually regulate their own temperature through increased metabolism to a certain degree. For instance, yesterday was 33C maximum here. At 11pm at night it was still 30C. Most of the hours after midnight it was 28/29C. Temperatures dipped to 26C for barely an hour predawn. My snake room remained at 29C throughout, as I'm pretty certain did every single wild snake in the region simply by being in contact with the warm ground. They choose their own preferred temperature and that's where they will try to stay, day and night, 24/7. Why not just give them an environment that's at 28/29C everywhere? My snakes love it. Perfectly healthy. Breed just fine. They don't bowl wrap much. They don't camp out on any particular spot in their enclosures or tubs. They are not tied to a heat seeking/cooling cycle. They don't bask. They do not pace their enclosures restlessly looking for something we failed to give them. Rethinking our breeding plans is something we all do each season, based on results from the last season, new grow ons that might be available, snakes we acquired, logistics, accounting and profitability. This is not a bad thing or indicative of success or failure. It's what we do to be in the game. Finally travel is possible again. Our Mongolia trip to fish for Taiman, is at last on in early August after 2 years of postponing. The fish have not likely seen a fly over this time which will hopefully make our offerings more readily accepted.

[@morph_combat]

Thanks Rob, great video 👍

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thanks Jordan.

[@MalcolmCrabbe]

Rob, as you say very thought provoking. Makes you wonder why so many care sheets, and advice, even on websites run by very respected breeders still say hot spot of 32c. I also think its down to the individual snake. A few of my royals seem to like the hot side more than the cool, and some vice-versa. I'm wondering if the bowl wrapping is more unique to your location as the inside of the tub will be uniform and the same temperature as the room they are housed in. In the UK, the ambient air temperature is a good 6-8c less, making the cool side typically 24c-25c when the hot side is 32-33c. This differential gives the snake more options to regulate its temperature. I have a female royal that does the normal process of seeking heat for a day or so after feeding and then spends the rest of the time at the cool end during the day, yet her mother hardly moves from the hot side in the day time, with both being active at night.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Malcolm. Glad you caught this video. Always great discussion points. Bowl wrapping is actually not a very prevalent behavior in my snakes. Provided I keep their ambient temperature around 28/29C degrees, they appear quite comfortable. Provided they also keep their temperatures down below about 29C after eating, they don't bowl wrap either. Only when ambient temps in the snake room get to 30C or more do my snakes start to get restless and wrap their water bowls. Only snakes that reach a body temperature close to 30C through their own activities will bowl wrap. You noticed only the building females at body temperatures approaching 30C were bowl wrapping. None of the snakes at 29C were doing it. Ambient was 28C. What I believe a snake needs after eating is a temperature high enough to kick start digestion, after which it starts to generate some of its own heat through what is actually a very inefficient process. I would suggest 26C degrees is too low to kickstart digestion, but can be tolerated once digestion starts, since the snake can raise its own body temperature from digestion. On an empty stomach our snakes can also tolerate temperatures below 26C. They just won't be able to eat. If our snakes cannot find heat over 26C after eating, it will have digestive issues. Since my snakes never get that low, no issue. If ambient is 24C, a Ball Python will be forced to seek heat after eating otherwise the food will just rot in its stomach. A Ball Python in its natural environment would not experience temperatures this low. It's 10.30pm as I type this reply and its still 30C outside. Still too warm for most nocturnal snakes to be active. Today was actually quite overcast and cool. It was "only" 33C at lunchtime today. The ambient temperature will drop to 25C only for a very brief period around dawn for perhaps an hour and wild snakes would have no trouble staying at 28C because the ground is still warm. Let me continue in the provocative note of the video. I wouldn't say a hot spot 3 degrees too hot and a cool side 4 degrees too cold is giving the snake more options for thermoregulation. It's actually very limiting. Probably only 1/4 of the available space is even close to the temperature our snake wants to be at. Its forced to move backwards and forward, too hot, too cold, or find the sweet spot in the tiny space that's just right, which is probably too exposed and not to the snakes liking anyway. Moving between a sauna and the snow might work for the Finns, but not for Ball Pythons. The whole ball game for a tropical snake is not heating up and cooling down. It's staying at precisely its preferred temperature at all times. If you provide this environment for the snake it has no need to move around to find it and is therefore free to do other stuff. How many of the care sheets were written by people keeping tropical snakes in their original climate? I would hazard a guess none. They are written by people keeping snakes in temperate climates where auxiliary heat, thermostats and all manner of environmental controls are necessary to get even close to a tropical environment. 32C for a hot spot is dangerously close to panic stations for tropical snake breeders, 33C will kill sperm and females will lay slugs. A temperature spike to 33C in a tropical snake room will ruin a whole season. My air con comes on to cool things down if my snake room gets to 31C and my snakes would be visibly and obviously distressed at this temperature. Tropical snakes, mad dogs and Englishmen need to stay cool, not seek heat. As far as an individual snake displaying different preferences, it depends where it's at in its shedding cycle, whether it just ate or whether its metabolism is on tick over because it didn't eat for a month, whether it has exerted itself through exercise, what its hormone status is, if it is building follicles. This will determine how much exothermic heat its generating and therefore what environmental conditions it will prefer at that moment. Depends also on its size and musculature. Bigger bodies, more heat. Depends on its surface area and how much of its circulation rich belly area it chooses to expose to a surface it might be using to maintain temperature. It would be interesting to hear from other keepers/breeders in Europe and the USA, where it does get cool in winter, and see what the snakes body temperature is when its camped on the hot spot or sleeping at the cool end. I think historically, temperature cycling is common too, even though it bears no resemblance to a tropical snakes natural environment and is demonstrably unnecessary for breeding Ball Pythons. I have noted temperatures in my snakes year round and throughout their breeding cycles. Its invariably 28/29C. They don't have to do much to hold that if ambient is in this range also. If ambient is a bit cooler, they have to move closer in their tubs to an outside wall that is still radiating some heat into their tub, or they might step up their metabolic processes and burn some fat reserves to generate a bit more heat, or if ambient is a bit warmer or they are getting hot and bothered by hormones, they might have to bowl wrap to stay at 28/29c because they are overheating. In my snake room, their actual body temperature doesn't seem to vary by much at all and I actually consider bowl wrapping to be quite unusual in my snakes. They obviously do it to keep cool, but its also obvious they are actually generating some of this heat themselves when they resort to this behavior.

[@MalcolmCrabbe]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls A very lengthy and interesting reply. Here in the UK it's quite common for the ambient room temperature to drop as low as 18c over the winter, and reach mid 30's in the odd day in the summer (apparently there is a waning that southern England could reach 37 on 15th July !!). I keep my snakes in vivs, so even in winter the thermal range can be 30-32c hot and 26-27c at the cool end which is a good metre away from the heater. Years ago I placed the ceramic heater in a box which gave the snake access to a warm shelf. The surface of the shelf was 34-36c and when building one female spent two or three hours each day soaking up the heat. I therefore feel that in some circumstances access to these temps may be required. I agree with you that they will generate heat in the process of digestion. It was interesting to see your observation that the sweet spot seems to be 29c, and as the run is only a degree less will resort to bowl rapping if the snakes body temp goes above that....I've since dropped my set points from 32, to 30 to see if there is any change in behaviour...

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Malcolm. Hamlin also runs his hot spots at 30C. I would love to hear how this goes and what you see in your snakes. I believe our snakes don't want to be as warm as 32C, but they require a short burst of heat input to regulate many of their own internal processes, after which they can regulate themselves - in tubs its exhibited by snakes being close to, but not directly on, the heat mat. They have moved a short distance away from the hot spot where the temperature is actually what they need. I believe that 30C (or even 28/29C as I keep mine) is adequate for this and our snakes are just fine with this "lower" setting. Warm surfaces (or cool surfaces) are a much more efficient and a faster way for our snakes to adjust temperature through conduction rather than have to absorb heat from a radiated heat source or loose excess heat through radiation from their body, which would take forever. Many snakes that curl up under a heat lamp are enjoying the warm surface it has created rather than using the lamp directly. And nocturnal snakes can use these warm surfaces even at night when the "lamp" has gone. A bit more on what I think is happening with building females....it takes a great deal of energy for the female to build follicles and I do believe my females have shown that they do get warm doing this, but like any "ectothermic" animal that is going to go "exothermic" from metabolic activity, it needs to absorb some heat first to kick the process off. Like lighting the fire. It can't happen unless she is warm enough in the first place. Here in the tropics being warm enough is never an issue, but perhaps in cooler climates you'll see them do something unusual which is related to this kickstarting of an exothermic metabolic process. Building females don't build constantly. Building is cyclic and they'll have a short burst of significant build where we see this "overheating", before they return to more normal metabolic levels. I have some more observations on this subject from my visit to the Malaka Reptile Sanctuary. Snakes kept outdoors. Enclosures side by side. The exact same environmental conditions, but snakes of different species doing things a bit differently. There was one species of large snake in particular that was doing something the others didn't do. There has to be a reason for that. You'll have to wait for my video and for me to crystalize my thoughts. Meantime, watch out for Dav Kaufman's video series from Africa where he shows animals in their natural setting. Some real eye openers there. I can't wait for the one he is going to make on Ball Pythons. I'm hoping to see some things that confirm what I showed in this video.

[@Akhatchntails]

Awesome information!!!

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thanks mate. Hope you found it interesting and thought provoking.

[@pelon198712]

excellent video

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thank you. Hope it's useful. Food for thought at leaat!

[@SnRJ23]

Cool video! Very interesting.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Cool is the word! Thanks.

[@jefffarr4219]

I’ve noticed the same thing with my BPs, the cool side ambient ranges from 79-82 F; and they will spend a couple days cooling off after eating. Does anyone know how high of a temperature the male’s sperm cells can tolerate before they begin to degrade? Some of my surface temps immediately near the heat lamp basking sites are a bit on the higher side.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Jeff. We use 33C here as the lethal zone. It will kill sperm in males and any stored sperm in females, leading to slugs. If my temps ever got to 32C I'd be panicking and turning on the A/C. Note 32C is actually the recommended hot spot in many care sheets and your snake might well curl up on a hot spot this warm if your set-up doesn't allow it to find alternative "safe" locations that are cooler. A temperature spike to 33C in a tropical snake room can ruin a whole breeding season.

[@justinwinther4407]

Amazing content. I love to hear your thought provoking segments. Question for you. I have several females this year 1800 to 2000 grams first year breading that gorged on food and bred every time I put the males in. Appeared to start building but never laid eggs. Do you have any statistics on this in your collection. I have been breeding for several years and this has happed before but only one a year if that. Thank you

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Justin, yes I do. I'm going to cut and paste from something I wrote about first time females so I don't miss anything. In this case its not just weight, its also age as a factor in maturity and readiness to breed. Here's part of what I wrote. "Our 16 month old snake that weighs 1800 gms and is “ready to breed” may not be anywhere near as large as we think she is. We like to say, ok subtract 100gms for the rat she just ate this week, so she is 1700gms empty. Empty??? Hell no, not empty. Not even close. She still has a full fuel tank, an enlarged liver, heart, kidneys and pancreas that are several times the normal size from all the food we have been giving her. She looks massive and her body condition is great, but she’s just been storing all that food in an enlarged liver and fat glands, not true body weight. And all these enlarged organs that make the snake look great have nothing to do with reproduction. Her reproductive organs may still be immature, even though her body is massive. Her true empty weight might be 1800 gms less 100 gms for the rat she just ate and less another say…. 600 gms for the massively enlarged liver and heart etc. She actually weights 1100gms empty and is a much smaller snake than we think she is. She could probably go for a year without eating with no ill effects at all from the stored nutrients in her liver and fat glands. And at the end of that year she’ll be 30 months old, we’ll get a true “empty weight” and maybe she will actually be ready to breed. Are we overfeeding our snakes? Well perhaps, but they are designed to eat when they can and they grow and mature at a much faster rate than they normally would when fed more. This is advantageous to a hatchling, but not necessarily to an adult. I think we need to consider what we are forcing our snakes to do physiologically when we feed them every week. We force them to stay at an elevated metabolic rate which is very inefficient. Food utilisation drops tremendously and they absorb less of what they do eat and poo much more of it out. Fed less frequently they absorb almost all of it and poo very little. They also do not “fart” as much as overfed snakes. Farts are intestinal gas build-up during incomplete digestion. Are we shortening the lives of our snakes by doing this? Almost certainly yes. They are not designed to run in full afterburner all their lives. Are we pushing them into early breeding? Yes we are, absolutely no doubt about that. Are we fooling ourselves about when they are ready to breed? Again, almost certainly yes. Our snake has enlarged organs due to constant feeding, none of which are the reproductive organs. Our overfed snake more than likely also has enlarged fat glands, which further restrict the reproductive passageways and organs. Our snake doesn’t have much room inside it, and cramming it with food along with the associated physiological changes that occur in a snake which is constantly fed can be detrimental, particularly in a younger female with an artificially high weight. A snake on tick-over that suddenly gets an abundance of seasonal food is much more likely to develop follicles than one that is already stuffed to the gills with food and receives no such metabolic stimulus because she never gets a chance to slow down her metabolic rate. For this reason alone, don’t get expectations too high when trying young first time females. She isn’t as big or mature as we think if we are just basing it on size/weight. Her enlarged liver and other organs may be contributing 30% or more of her bodyweight and her true weight might be considerably smaller. My success rate on first time females under 2 years old but “up to weight” is less than 50%. More than half of those paired simply don't go on to produce a clutch of eggs, even if they were nice and thick and exhibiting build behaviour. Follicle development is not necessarily a guide, as prior to ovulation these animals can and do reabsorb their follicles and then start another build cycle over the next 6 months or so. This is very common in first time females and I believe partly a response to being overfed and not having sufficient internal space for developing follicles. For first time females in their 3rd year, my success figure goes up considerably to something closer to 75%. Much more internal space in a bigger more mature female. Males I have no issue with breeding in their first year at less than 1000gms. Numbers will differ depending on how we keep our snakes and how much we feed them. No rules here, no right and wrong, but it is just another illustration of how this can vary massively between breeders and how snakes can look mature when they are not. But….never say never. 2 years ago I had a 2.2 kg female lay 8 good eggs at almost exactly 2 years of age. The youngest female I have ever successfully bred. In fact she laid in the same week as her mother, who also gave me a clutch again that season. Her 3 sisters either were not big enough (2 of them) or were paired, but did not go on to lay (1 of them). So in this example, 2 out of 4 were not ready and only 1 of the 2 that was big enough actually laid. And yes, she was both massively overfed to get to this size in 2 years and also had an extraordinary growth rate compared to most of her overfed siblings. She weighed 1100gms when she was lifted off the clutch after 90 plus days without food and she was very skinny, but ate well immediately and recovered fast. The 1100 gms is her true empty weight with very little reserves left. In young snakes like this, it’s always a close run thing and she was “running on fumes” by the end of it. A 50% weight loss would kill other animals, but fortunately our snakes have a metabolism designed to give her a reasonable chance of surviving the process. Her sister of around the same size in terms of “full fuel” weight at 2.2kg will have to wait another year before we try again (this season!). Up to size one might think, but not sexually mature."

[@justinwinther4407]

Thank you for the reply and sharing your extensive knowledge. Your awesome. Have a great week.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Thanks Justin. Probably a bit more than you bargained for and certainly not aimed at you, but your answer is in there. I felt compelled to give you the why, not just the raw numbers. Raw numbers are perhaps less helpful.

[@heilispythons4117]

Hey Rob, unrelated but. I've been away a bit, where is predator bp and do you all still collaborate ? Ken

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi Ken. Richard rebranded to Kai Constrictors and then decided to take a break from social media and concentrate on life. He has deleted all his content, but is still well and I do still communicate with him from time to time. The other two guys, Ron from BBM reptiles and Shane from Small Town Exotics are still active and have their own channels and Instagram.

[@heilispythons4117]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls thanks, I really enjoyed what you guys were doing,It's been rough since COVID and we moved, then I lost most of my vision. I can see some "visually impaired"...now I am disabled and stuck at home I am gonna be more active

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

@@heilispythons4117 thank you. Sorry to hear of your impaired vision. Yes, Covid has been rough on everyone and saps the motivation. Thank goodness for snakes.

[@acaciarogersart]

So it looks like your snakes are regularly kept around 84-85°F. Yet everyone recommends around a 90° warm spot. Are you suggesting that they should generally be kept cooler than the general recommendation?

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. Superficially yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting and I have long felt that 90F is way too hot for these snakes, but let me qualify that with a "depends on where you live" statement. Having lived in the tropics for more than half my life, I notice that "heat" doesn't work the same way in different parts of the world. I went to Mongolia this summer and daytime temperatures were a little cooler than here at around 26C (79F). Standing in the sun felt warm, but the rear half of my body shaded from direct sunlight always felt a chill. Step into the shade and you immediately felt cold. Very peculiar. In the tropics, you don't feel cold. Step into the shade and it feels exactly the same. You need to sit for at least 10 minutes to feel any difference at all. The air is thick, hot and heavy and it takes much longer to cool down. Heat stroke is a real possibility even if you are not in direct sunlight. So my snakes are kept at ambient temps and there are no hot spots or cool sides to my tubs. The snakes use the water bowls to cool if they get too warm, but generally they just move away from the warm outside walls to the opposite ends of the tub to remain comfortable. They operate best and are comfortable at around 86F. They never get much cooler than that, so I never worry about chill or an inability to digest food. In fact after feeding, my snakes will get warmer than ambient temperatures and will bowl wrap to get cooler. If temperatures got to 90F my snakes would be climbing up the walls in distress. They don't like it this hot and it takes them ages to cool down from an overheating condition. However, if you keep tropical snakes in cooler climates, they can simply move off the hot spot and quickly cool off to what they want to be at. This will, in extreme circumstances, have your snake moving on and off the hot spot constantly, in which case, you probably do need to turn down the hot spot a bit. They will then just camp out over the hot spot, which is just right, and they won't move because the rest of the tub is too cold. I do not believe that heat mats are "natural" and that snakes will ever behave "naturally" in set-ups that are anything other than tropical ambient (which I am lucky enough to have). Any set-up is going to be a compromise and your snakes will let you know if they are happy or not. Here in the tropics, I would panic if my temperatures got to 90F! But my snakes would find it harder to cool off if they got this warm, so there is a difference. As for a general recommendation for hot spot temperatures, they don't apply to snake keeping here in the tropics. I have tried heat mats in my tubs (for gravid females which are supposed to seek out heat right?) and my snakes moved to the opposite end of the tub and wouldn't go anywhere near the heat. My maternal incubation female is sitting happily on a pile of eggs with an ambient temperature of 86F in the room and without access to any warmer temperatures, yet she is holding at 87.5F. I'm guessing her clutch, hidden inside her coils is sitting right where it needs to be at around 88.5F. She is generating her own heat and controlling the temperature of her clutch via adjustments to her metabolic rate. She is burning fat reserves to stay a bit warmer than her surroundings. This is evident from the amount of water she is drinking. Way more than normal, so I'm guessing the metabolic function that raises her temperature requires H2O to work. Wild snakes here in the tropics rarely expose themselves to temperatures of 90F or above. They find somewhere cooler, in the shade, underground and just don't come out. It can get to 97F in the middle of the day here in the tropics. No animal is out and active out in those temperatures with 80% humidity. There is no way to loose excess heat. So these are just my own observations on my own snakes. Yours will be different depending upon where you live. But yes, as a general rule from my experience, a 90F hot spot is too hot.

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. You also dropped a comment or question on an older video. It shows up in part on my dashboard, but I cannot find it on any of my comments feeds. I will answer it here. Acacia Rogers Art • 8 hours ago I know this is a year old video but if anyone can answer, what about pairing every 2 weeks? At least starting out. A building female is going to take around 6 months to build follicles and get to ovulation. I try to minimise stress and leave the females alone as much as possible during that time and that includes introducing a male. Mating is very stressful on both animals. So I will pair every month and watch the female closely, trying to gauge when she is going to ovulate and squeeze in one more lock. These days it's often done with ultrasound and 3 pairings in total is enough if they are at the right time. In fact a single pairing will do the trick but I don't know many breeders who use a single lock as breeding strategy. Usually more of a happy accident. Pairing every two weeks is not only unnecessary in my opinion, its also quite stressful on both the male and the female. A female paired too often may not go on to lay as she is being disturbed too much.. A male paired too often may go off food. Having said that, I do know people will pair much more often than I do. I don't see why, but they do and it often works for them. Not sure if they get slug eggs and their males get sick or go off food for months, but my males remain healthy and eating throughout the breeding season and I get very few slugs in my clutches. If I could, I would pair just 3 times. Once at the start of the breeding season to get the female building and then 2 more locks in the few weeks before the female ovulates. But since every female is different and it's often difficult to gauge exactly when they will ovulate, I have settled on once a month, and even then I don't stress if the male is in shed and misses for an extra week or two. Hope that helps. Take a look at some of the other videos I have done on pairing cycles and rotations. Many ways to do it, but these days I prefer to pair less often rather than more often.

[@acaciarogersart]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls i see. So i cant speak to the experience of living in a tropical climate, as im in New Hampshire usa where its cold 7 months out of the year and the air is relatively dry. We get dramatic temp gradients here where the warm spot could be 90, but the cool side could be in the high 70s, the rest of the enclosure would hover somewhere in the 80s depending on the season or time of day. Theres almost no way, at least where i live, to keep a constant tropical ambient. Now what are your thoughts on that ball python documentary,? where they tested the resting temps of ball pythons and their burrows in africa where they spent most of their time, and it was always close to 90, or 88-92°.

[@acaciarogersart]

@@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls ok thank you thats helpful..i couldnt find a straight answer online about pairing frequency

[@RobertBarracloughRoyalBalls]

Hi mate. Dave Kaughman's Ball Pythons in the Wild Video. An excellent reference work for all Ball Python lovers. Dave Kaughman Ball Pythons in the wild video kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6irk31oo86Vj9U I found it fascinating. Firstly, these Ball Pythons are going underground to remain cool, not to stay warm, so the temperatures measured are firstly what was available and secondly what was needed by a female incubating her eggs. Where else could they go in that particular area to be any cooler? Humidity is another parameter they need and this in all cases was close to 100%. Underground in a burrow is also much more stable than anywhere on surface so its better to have a constant 90F than to have temperatures fluctuating. I found it particularly interesting that Dave discovered a female off her eggs in the entrance to a burrow and he speculated she had moved off the eggs to cool them down and allow additional air circulation. Of course there are the basking theorists who believe she is absorbing heat to bring back to the eggs to keep them warm, but at 90F in the burrow, I doubt that is the issue. She is almost certainly trying to keep them cool, indicating that the eggs are right at the maximum temperature that is good for them and any higher and they may die. She herself is at great risk of predation doing this and I took that as rather unnatural behavior and a warning sign of bigger problems I will discuss below. So these temperatures (and humidity and the overall stability) are for incubating females in the area he was studying and even there there was a lot of variability. I believe he found other nests in different areas that were at temperatures much cooler than that. For every animal there is a preferred temperature range (what they like) and a tolerance range (what they can still survive at) and life will always find a way. The natural range of Ball Pythons would extend to the limits of their tolerance. For my animals where I live, I can definitely see signs of distress and aversion when temperatures get above 31C (88F) and my snakes will start to bowl wrap and move away from the warm outside walls if the tubs are against a wall. Breeders here in the tropics avoid temperatures of 33C (92F) because male sperm dies at this temperature and breeding records show that if your room spikes to 33C (92F) you run a great risk of your females slugging out. The snakes will tolerate 36C (97F) for short periods, but they certainly will not breed at these temperatures. Herein the tropics we try to keep our snakes between 28C (83F) and 30C (86F) at all times for optimum breeding results, but you can get away with temps as high as 32C (90F). I have tried heat tape in my maternal tubs. When a female ovulates, she is supposed to seek heat, so I gave them a 32C (90F) hot spot. Every single female moved to the opposite end of the tub and avoided the hot spot. I don't do this any more because it obviously caused my snakes distress. Also my maternal female has laid eggs in the middle of a cool wet period and my snake room has been hovering around 29C (85F) at night. The rest of my snakes don't care. Business as usual. But I was worried about my maternal female. I will show you on the video tonight that she is quite comfortable and has maintained her own body temperature at 30C (86.5F) or even 30.5C (87F) with no external heat sources. She must be doing this by muscular activity and regulating her metabolism. Another reason I suspect the female found outside her burrow was not seeking heat to bring back to her eggs. So I am going to suggest that the temperatures registered by Dave in his video are NOT natural preferred temperatures of Ball Pythons in the wild. I am seeing a planet ravaged by global warming and drought, deforestation and rapidly changing climate. Ball Pythons in these tropical African areas are still within their tolerance levels, but push them any further and they will be in trouble. I already saw temperatures on his video that I would avoid in my captive snakes because I know these temperatures cause problems for breeding. If this is the temperature these snakes have always lived at, it must be one of the few places on the planet that hasn't changed and I saw plenty of evidence from the video that this was not the case and these areas are changing rather rapidly. Drought and vegetation loss causes excessive runoff and flash floods during the rainy season. I saw plenty of evidence on the video of severe soil erosion with deep ravines carved into the landscape. It was also noted that Ball Pythons were observed climbing trees in the rainy season when the ground was flooded. I'm going to suggest that this flooding is not natural either and that therefore the need to climb trees to escape the floods is an unnatural adaptive behavior that animals are forced into in order to escape. These exact same processes must be removing a lot of the Ball Pythons natural nesting grounds. I would have liked to see what temperatures the Ball Python farms used to incubate the collected eggs. I bet you a pound to a penny, it's not as high as the temperatures they were collected from. It does sound like your temperatures are OK and should not be a reason for lack of success. Your climate is much colder and dryer than mine, so let your snakes tell you what they prefer. They will let you know in various ways if they are not happy.