Might be a bit late but I wouldn't forget about charcoal forges either, especially if you're looking for a budget option to get started. Charcoal forges can be as simple as a hole in the ground with a hair dryer pointed at it. You can use either store bought lump charcoal or homemade charcoal if you've access to wood to convert. For forge welding, it gets the steel hot enough. However, it produces a lot of ash that can get between the steel and prevent it from welding properly, making it sometimes difficult to weld. Fire management can be a pain, as like coal you have to stay on top of it. It also produces a lot of sparks that can burn shirts and skin, though you get used to those sorts of things anyway when forging. Charcoal I believe burns faster than coal, so you'll be adding more fuel more frequently. You also have to prepare the charcoal beforehand by breaking it down into smaller chunks about half the size of your thumb. I think the main appeal for charcoal is how accessible it is for beginners, you only need charcoal, a hair dryer, and a hole to make a forge. Once you have it, you can always make more fuel if you can get your hands on scrap wood, meaning it can be pretty cheap to run it if you're on a budget.
@bruceb71202 жыл бұрын
I could never get it those hot enough
@VonWalther23 жыл бұрын
When the ship runs out of ocean, and the vessel runs aground, Hand Modeling is where The Captain can be found.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Aye. With my grimy mitts
@vampyrew0lf3 жыл бұрын
Props for the giants reference! I sang thas as I read it 😎
@finneganalexzander13173 жыл бұрын
Instablaster.
@SchysCraftCo.3 жыл бұрын
That's very well said on that on running blacksmith battle. On gas vs coal. Great video Brett. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge on.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir
@SchysCraftCo.3 жыл бұрын
@@skullandspade ur very welcome my friend forge on
@Matthew-ir1ed3 жыл бұрын
I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar! This was a great summary of the differences/advantages between each system, thanks!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Yes sir!
@CraftsWithEllen3 жыл бұрын
Very informative captain!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank ye ms kaylee
@TrevorHigginsDustysqueak3 жыл бұрын
Good stuff. I feel a little better about my coal setup now. Thanks Brett.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Good deal
@ASCarvings3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the insight into coal and propane.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Cheers anthony
@jackwriter19083 жыл бұрын
Isn't there also something with the metal changing when you use coal?
@mossyhollow37323 жыл бұрын
You may be thinking of carbon adsorption which only can be achieved evenly with case hardening compounds. It's usually a bone carbon powder. Also, certain rare alloys will become damaged if overheated which is easier to do with coal. Wrought and mild steel won't be affected. It just sparks as it oxidizes.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Well said
@stevemoore50532 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video!
@skullandspade5 ай бұрын
Thank you for watching
@jutulporten3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another great video Brett!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank YOU
@davebauerart3 жыл бұрын
Great info! One thing I may have missed, did you mention shape or a piece. If you are making a knife or anything straight, most propane forges are great. If you are making some weird sculpture like Mount_Phillip_Metal_Works a coal forge might be more accommodating. (Learned that from Chris Cash, I'll probably still buy a small propane forge and then try to bend something and then learn it doesn't fit back in the forge.)
@MtPhillipMetalWorks3 жыл бұрын
Zing
@davebauerart3 жыл бұрын
@@MtPhillipMetalWorks I am 100% in weird sculpture camp!
@PaulFontaniniArtist3 жыл бұрын
Great video mate. The whole can a gas forge be used for forge welding thing is yes it can. Is it as easy as a solid fuel forge no it is not.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Precisely
@TheMessyStudio3 жыл бұрын
Great info there, Brett! Thanks!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thanks as always Billy!
@CrudeButEfficient3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown! Both setups have their pros and cons, and if I had to choose I'm in camp coal. But they complement each other well, so if I had a forge area I would probably also go for one of each. Makes it easier to have hammer ins as well! 😁
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant idea. They really do have their own merit. Glad I have both options now
@hunters36forgingwoodworkin732 жыл бұрын
With enough modifications a coal forge can run similar to gas. But it requires the breaking of some rules.
@forjanatalense3 жыл бұрын
I love this channel omg
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Woohoo
@MarkusWITH_a_k2 жыл бұрын
Love the review bro I would like to know which one would be cheaper when it comes to cost of fuel per hour
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
There are far too many variables like “how hot are you running it, how big is your stock, door open/closed, etc.” I’d bank on coal being less expensive overall, but it’s a lot harder to source than propane for most folks
@Dfrantz873 жыл бұрын
Elegantly done brother! The Tubes have been missing a clean, no BS video on this. 💀♠️¹³ ⚒🔥 🤜🏾💥🤛🏾
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Darn right
@phillipbrewster9693 жыл бұрын
If you forged that metal skull will you do an episode on how you did it? Thats awsome. Great video im considering getting a forge now that I own my home. Im an electrician and have access to large amounts of metals...
@erikcourtney18343 жыл бұрын
My single 1”burner gas forge will weld wrought iron. At 8psi. I know you said it might be possible but I thought I’d chime in.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Wrought welds much easier than mild steel, which is what most beginners will be going after. Especially with flux and a heavy hammer
@erikcourtney18343 жыл бұрын
It welds much easier than mild steel, but requires higher heat. That’s what’s said anyway. I’ve never tested it so see if it indeed it true or not. I just know they both need way more than medium & high carbon steel.
@whazee3 жыл бұрын
Gawd dang-it Bobby! There's only one type of forge you need. Propane! Propane with propane accessories! ... ... That boy ain't right...
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Oh hank.
@1956vern3 жыл бұрын
Very educational! I would mainly use a propane forge for decorative hinge work! I have a single burner but would like to have a two or three burner propane! No all burners would need to run just the placement of burner and would like a rectangle forge! I have acetylene that is my go to for most metal work! I like your propane setup! I’m going to copy that feature and use that gate! I have just fire bricks and it takes time for moving! I lose the edge on work! 1/4 to 20 gauge metal cools rapidly! I appreciate seeing you dedicated smith’s and your work place! Awesome 👏
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! There’s definitely a lot of value in the consistent heat of propane setups.
@techronmattic58763 жыл бұрын
Hey Brett I've played around with blowing back the dragons breath from the opening of the gas forge to stop the overheating of the end you want to handle, might be something to consider for a followup video?
@mossyhollow37323 жыл бұрын
Do you mean you have a fan? I put a small blower right under my door pointed up and it helped a lot.
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
@@mossyhollow3732 that's actually a nice idea. I will try that.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
There it is^
@techronmattic58763 жыл бұрын
@@mossyhollow3732 yep im sure I've heard or seen a comment about it somewhere, but would love to see it in practice
@mossyhollow37323 жыл бұрын
Here ya go. Make sure to read the description. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXjQaKSHqL2HoKM
@RasmusLoen3 жыл бұрын
Well that solves it. Whenever a student ask, I'll just send them to you Capt'n. Take care of the green landlubbers, will you?
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
I’ll do my best
@garagemonkeysan3 жыл бұрын
Great video, very informative. Lots of knowledge passed here. Were you playing with Jessie's toys in the intro? Mahalo for sharing! : )
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
THOSE ARE MY TOYS!
@garagemonkeysan3 жыл бұрын
@@skullandspade lol
@MichaelKieweg3 жыл бұрын
I learned something on that one. Well done, Sir!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Well good
@AndyCPugh3 жыл бұрын
How about pro-coal? A coal forge with extra burners, like an older style gas BBQ? Best of both worlds. ;)
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
That is the dream
@jlarts3 жыл бұрын
Can I ask a stupid question? I don't understand how your steel stock doesn't just transfer the heat from the forge all the way along its length. I always thought steel was good at conducting heat that's why if you have steel (albeit stainless) handles on pans that you leave on the stove it will burn your hand if you just grab it without some kind of glove. Yet I see you grab that piece of stock with no gloves on and no problem. I know you explained how the propane forge pushes excess heat out the front which can then heat the rest of the piece but I still don't get how the steel just doesn't transfer the heat by itself. 🤔
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Honestly, it’s a bit of magic (albeit science) from my perspective. I didn’t really understand how that worked either until I was exposed to it. If I had to hazard a guess: since the air for the coal forge is fed from underneath, and hot air rises (path of least resistance) the hot spot is so consolidated that the speed at which the material heats up inside compared to the bit hanging outside isn’t enough to soak back between working time. I HAVE left a bar in the coal fire (on low air) for a bit, and it has soaked back enough to make the steel pretty damn hot. Again, I think it has more to do with the speed and size of the heat source. Hence, covering the material with a bit of “cold” coal acts as a barrier, since it’ll will pull heat out of the material before it runs up the rest of the bar.
@dragonstonegemironworkscra47403 жыл бұрын
I may not be very experienced in all this. However its just like a hammer or tongs. If you need wolf jaws and a crosspein...you need em but sometimes you need box jaw and rounding hammer. So coal forge complements propane just as propane compliments coal. Ultimate answer??? Both. Every Smith should be able to use what best suits the current needs. Both fits the bill Loved the video captn 🙏 Blessed day and well wishes Sir Crawford out ⚒️🧙♂️
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Well said
@molegrip38603 жыл бұрын
My conclusion - it's best to have both ;) Cheers Brett - thanks for sharing another awesome video. Happy Sunday :)
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank YOU
@bccycle13 жыл бұрын
Enjoy your videos
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank ye
@GrahamDallas3 жыл бұрын
Great info there Brett, I knew some of it but also learned a good deal.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Well, mission accomplished then
@dirmusloner7963 Жыл бұрын
In my humble opinion charcoal or coal forges are always up and running, I am not underestimating propane forges, but I really like coal forges cause you can build them from a grill and it is a budget low to start. Also a coal forge let's you think how things started in blacksmith art, a little bit of history, call me romantic about this. Coal forge is my option.
@skullandspade5 ай бұрын
Truth
@cmw1842 жыл бұрын
Love the skulls lmao
@luciusirving59263 жыл бұрын
I rarely use coal, but I'm sure that it'll put out a lot more heat via pumicecrete rocket stove than pine.
@girunit13873 жыл бұрын
Wait...Ix is a pirate skull....you were playing with dinasours.... Did you also reference an MTG set in your intro?
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Mayhaps
@briangingerich76323 жыл бұрын
So are you saying no damascus with this propane forge,I'm asking because I was considering buying this one?
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
It’s possible, just takes a lot more effort to get the heat necessary.
@fishbonker84273 жыл бұрын
Both undoubtedly heat steel but the coal forge is so much quieter. I just don't like the continual roar of a propane forge.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Right there with you
@redstone713 жыл бұрын
The true argument is summed up in, "what do you want to do . . ." Like any tool, what you want to do should drive the tool you use and not the other way around.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@scoobshagg3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison Bret. I learned on coal and really enjoyed it. Then later I moved into the city with neighbors close by. Starting up a coal forge can be smokey with propane I don't have to worry about that. After a few years with propane I'm now looking for a coal forge again because I miss it and some of its advantages.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Aye. Well said brother
@randomschittz94612 жыл бұрын
Wait till you use feed corn as fuel and see the most beautiful flame ever. I’m new to forging, but I love it.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
That’s weird. I dig it
@archerkn24133 жыл бұрын
Umm, at 6:35 that does look forge weldable.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Camera exposure and lighting is a thing
@Andrewmackinnonripp3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for explaining the differences between the two fuel types, Captain. This helps me make a decision for further down the line when I start the Frenetic Ferret Forge.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Aye aye
@henrydavis61423 жыл бұрын
you need to do some research on forced air propane or NG burners,they run hotter and more efficiently then The Venturi burner you are running
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
This was a comparison of these specific forges. If anyone wants to look into natural gas, I’ll send em your way
@KrakenCasting3 жыл бұрын
If you're looking to forge weld, coal/coke is a better option anyway. Not only is it easier to get to a higher temperature, but coke burns dry. Part of the chemical proccess that turns propane into fire makes water, which makes your steel oxidize faster. You don't get that problem with coke.
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
Coal doesn't burn dry either. It has a water content of up to 20% in anthracite and even coke isn't as dry as you seem to think. And there is more free air in coal forges than in gas ones.
@KrakenCasting3 жыл бұрын
@@Glaswalker1001 are you saying the internet has been lying to me for years?! Oh man... I feel so betrayed. XD Thanks for the info.
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
@@KrakenCasting yeah, I also thought that coal was dry as rock, but while visiting an old coal mine I was corrected. In that particular mine the coal was so moist that they jokingly referred to it as being "the only flame retardant coal in Germany".
@alanscannell3 жыл бұрын
That's a very food comparison between the two. It really depends on your needs. If I had to choose I'd choose both 😉
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
As well you should
@michaelmadison18063 жыл бұрын
I bet you can cook a really nice brisket on one, and some hot dogs on the other. Nice!!! Reeeeeeal Nice.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
There you go
@austinhughes68523 жыл бұрын
So it really just depends on your needs.And what your working with.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Yes. 100%
@bigmikeg843 жыл бұрын
A lot more of an interesting topic then I thought it would be. I can certainly understand the benefits of both.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Mike
@forge521003 жыл бұрын
Pretty easy to forge weld with propane, little bit easier to forge weld with coal. When it comes to forge welding high carbon steel, propane is far superior since you don't run as much risk burning your steel. To me, it's more about isolation, when I'm doing hawks I prefer coal since it's easier to isolate sections vs propane where the whole thing gets hot. To me they both have strengths and weaknesses and compliment each other.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
I’m with you
@sethterro48093 жыл бұрын
Best TV show ever I can't believe the movie killed him off
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Yes
@lostmypicks Жыл бұрын
OK so hear me out. Lining he bottom of a Gas forge with coal?
@skullandspade Жыл бұрын
And then what happened?
@starship30953 жыл бұрын
Gas sure is noisy, got to have a good coal ambience!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely
@finnsailing693 жыл бұрын
9:34 "We call it... Mr volcano" with spaceballs vibe ;)
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Hahahahah
@mattlambert311810 ай бұрын
I didn't expect a reference to "Firefly".
@skullandspade5 ай бұрын
Always
@jeramibanks32762 жыл бұрын
At the risk of sounding foolish, how is the propane forge not hot enough to forge weld?
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
It can absolutely be done with certain propane forges, but this “affordable” model doesn’t quite get to the temperatures I would need. Standard operating on this runs around 1800-1900 degrees. On mild steel, I’d want to push over 2000, or a nice yellow color.
@Bribaebee333 Жыл бұрын
So is rhe coals not dangerous to burn?
@skullandspade Жыл бұрын
Danger is relative. In a forge, most aspects are dangerous
@BoNdzY2 жыл бұрын
Great video Bret, keep it up 👍
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Woohoo
@BulatsSchmiede3 жыл бұрын
Hi Brett!Thanks for showing!Gas or coal !? Depends on the area of application !I forge with coal !(beech charcol )And it works very well !Keep it up brett Greeting #Bulatsschmiede (The Blacksmith Bulat from germany)😎🤟
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank you as always sir
@BulatsSchmiede3 жыл бұрын
@@skullandspade 😎🤟
@Everythings_Adjustable3 жыл бұрын
Very informative Matey 🔨🔨👍
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Cheers brother
@Everythings_Adjustable3 жыл бұрын
@@skullandspade 🔥🔨👍😊
@bruceb71202 жыл бұрын
Your video is very creative.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Woot
@mortenhenningsen9403 жыл бұрын
Short and simple
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@Aaron_Barrett2 жыл бұрын
How deep your fire pot is?
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Is deep. The deepest maybe
@NMBWoodworks3 жыл бұрын
Great video, really informative and you gave a really nice balance of facts and experience. I feel educated!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Well good
@chrisanderton88342 жыл бұрын
Cheers mate. This was really helpful. I purchased a cheap forge as to not invest too much until I was sure this was something I really wanted to do. After a week I knew I needed something a little more serious. Logistically and availability make coal a no go for me. I'm in the process of making my own gas forge and I'll definitely be "borrowing" some of your ideas. So thanks again for the post, appreciated.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Borrow away
@bernardleighan32183 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. I have built myself a coal forge and was wondering if I should include a propane forge in my setup. You have helped me to answer that question. Thanks Cap’n.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
They both have their purpose for sure
@Code_Exodus3 жыл бұрын
Good topic. Have yet to buy my first forge but I plan to work with mild steel sheets so an open top coal forge is about it plus I'm low income. Besides with how bad luck follows me a propane forge is likely to blow my eyebrows off against all odds, I like to avoid compressed flammable containers as a rule in life. Also can't deny the fine tuned old world charm of coal forges.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
There’s definitely old world charm attached to the coal forge
@MooreDoing3 жыл бұрын
Great breakdown
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank ye
@daviddesvaux97862 жыл бұрын
Coal forge has a nice advantage though : no risk of exploding to your face.
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Mayhaps. But then again, a proper gas forge should never do that
@JohnMadeit3 жыл бұрын
That was great info. And delivered in a great way.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Good deal
@anthonywoodland17413 жыл бұрын
Well said
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir
@gurvinderkau1e5w183 жыл бұрын
Great video on propane and coal forge.l Iike coal forge more👍👍🔥🔥🔥
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
I do too ; )
@TheBobbytables3 жыл бұрын
Oh Wash :(
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Sad
@InsideAlan3 жыл бұрын
Great run through of the issues/benefits of each. How long does a tank of propane last?
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
This is a 10 gallon and it’s been running for... around 12 hours on low psi over the last few sessions. I’m maybe half way through it
@nikond90ful13 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video Brett. Informative and entertaining. Keep safe and stay well.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Colin
@almightybot31763 жыл бұрын
Hello
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Hi
@jebowlin38793 жыл бұрын
I would imagine the debate is irrelevant when you consider your needs as a blacksmith, if you never have a need to forge weld something, then propane is more than enough, that being said, there are some blacksmiths that have larger "higher end" gas forges that get the job done, but like I always say, you use what you want and let the outsiders worry about the small things
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@dereksstuff83953 жыл бұрын
Kids.....
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Yup
@EvanDunville3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison. I used a coal forge at a friend's shop. It was a lot of fun!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
I love my coal forge
@FredMcIntyre3 жыл бұрын
Awesome work Brett, thanks for the info! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Cheers Fred
@chybz3 жыл бұрын
Very well made and truly informative. Thanks Brett !
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thanks As always Remy
@jgclark453 жыл бұрын
both have their pluses. Just get the metal hot and hit it hard
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Aye
@raynoladominguez47303 жыл бұрын
Educational; thank you sir.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thank you as always Raynola
@jaredpaddick58793 жыл бұрын
What an informative and well done video! Great work!
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jared!
@seangere96983 жыл бұрын
What about carbon loss and retention in high carbon steel? Dont you loose more carbon in your steel with propane vs coal/coke.
@mossyhollow37323 жыл бұрын
You cannot loose carbon from steel at forging temperatures. The carbon % will not change unless it's heated to about 6,400°F. For years I've heard that scale is carbon being lost. It's not. It's simply the liquid steel surface becoming oxidized.
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
It's the same myth like coal fire heightening the carbon in the metal. That doesn't happen at those low temperatures and over those short periods of time. Well, unless you are using some nasty chemicals to speed up this process while lowering the necessary temperature for the reaction.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
I believe the comments below express some ideas on that front
@seangere96983 жыл бұрын
Ok was just wondering if it was true or not. I've heard both thoughts and wasn't sure either way. I know there's ways to add carbon to iron to make it a steel in a forge but wasn't sure if you could lose carbon as well.
@jonasgoers30733 жыл бұрын
For the algorithm
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
?
@jonasgoers30733 жыл бұрын
More comments = more recommendations ✌🏾️
@brianmoore11803 жыл бұрын
Taste the meat not the heat
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
lol
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
Uhm... Actually: although you can control the heat better in a gas forge, it WILL burn your stock. As it's not the heat that burns steel, it's heat plus oxygen and there's still some oxygen in those gas forges.
@mossyhollow37323 жыл бұрын
If your piece is directly under the burner you can still get hot spots even at lower forge temperatures. The old saying of too many irons in the fire comes to play.
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
@@mossyhollow3732 although this is a true and well known fact it has nothing to do with my argument. That's like saying: "but in a coal forge, if you just put the metal on top of the fire it won't get hot enough to weld. " a bit of a non sequitur.
@skullandspade3 жыл бұрын
Darius, I tried following your account to see if you had any videos sharing your knowledge. Valuable stuff! What’s your background in smithing? (Metalwork?)
@Glaswalker10013 жыл бұрын
@@skullandspade I'm afraid not. I wish I would have learned some real trade, but I'm just an engineer. I'm blacksmithing for about 10 years now, but only as a hobby and to balance out the office job. I'm making tools and some decorative ironwork most of the time. And some show smiting at something Americans would call renfair I guess?
@RasmusLoen3 жыл бұрын
@@Glaswalker1001 Well actually ... Brett should probably have told the newbies about the fundamentals of thermodynamics and crystalline structure of steel, just to make sure there's no magic left in it, and of course to utterly overwhelm them with necessary information ^^
@s.sradon97822 жыл бұрын
the intro is just him being schizo
@skullandspade2 жыл бұрын
Alright, which one of you said that
@tree_carcass_mangler3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the education. Thumbs up and smooth sailing! (Somehow I became unsubbed to your channel; never fear, that was unintentional and I'm back.)