Reckless Decisions: The Tragic Loss of Tall Ship Bounty

The HMS Bounty Replica Tall Ship was lost in Hurricane Sandy off the coast near Cape Hatteras, NC on Monday October 29, 2012. A story of EL Faro-esque negligence, hubris and a blatant disregard for the power of nature.
Tall Ship Bounty Episode 1 by Oceanliner Designs: • The Ship That Sank Twi...
Oceanliner Designs Team
Producer - Mike Brady
Visual Effects - Jack Gibson
3D model assistance - Liam Sharpe
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"Your Safety Matters" Merch! www.brickimmortar.com/shop
▶REFERENCES, SOURCES & FEATURED MEDIA: pastebin.com/q4XXeYDR
*Views presented are my own and the appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), NTSB & any other entities' visual information does not imply nor constitute their endorsement.
Soundings Magazine Clip: • Interview with HMS Bou...
▶WANT MORE BRICK IMMORTAR MARITIME?
Cutter Blackthorn Tragedy: • Negligent Navigation: ...
SS EL Faro: • Disastrous Indifferenc...
FV Alaska Ranger: • Deadly Disrepair: The ...
Car Carrier Golden Ray: • Roll-On Roll-Over: The...
FV Scandies Rose: • Frozen, Dark & Far Fro...
USS Thresher: • Crush Depth: The Night...
FV Northern Belle: • Overlooked & Overloade...
FV Emmy Rose: • Suddenly Submerged: Th...
▶MUSIC: Produced by Mors
/ @morsbeats
/ morsbeats
▶Timestamps:
00:00 Opening
01:43 The Replica HMS Bounty History & Mutiny
03:51 Modern Tall Ship Bounty Specifications
05:18 The Vessel's Modern History from TallShipBounty.org
12:10 Bounty Goes Up For Sale - Issues Start to Show
15:40 Sep-Oct Boothbay Drydock Period Exposes Major Issues
18:05 New London & Groton Visit with Looming Hurricane Warnings
22:15 Bounty Underway - On Shore Personnel Post FB Updates in near Real-Time
27:60 Sat AM Oct 27th - Captain Turns Toward Hurricane Sandy
31:00 Hurricane Sandy Punishes the Tall Ship Bounty - Dewatering Issues
39:05 US Coast Guard Sector North Carolina Launches C-130 into Hurricane
47:36 US Coast Guard Launches 3 MH-60 Jayhawk Rescue Units
50:11 USCG & NTSB Findings & Conclusions
1:08:12 US Coast Guard Recommendations & Lessons Learned
1:12:00 Legal Aftermath and Closing Thoughts
1:13:15 In Memoriam...
1:13:28 End Credits
Your Safety Matters. -Sam
#Maritime #Workplace #YourSafetyMatters

[@BrickImmortar]

Tall Ship Bounty Episode 1 by Oceanliner Designs: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aobJg62cg5KKlck "Your Safety Matters" Merch! www.brickimmortar.com/shop Brick Immortar Patreon: www.patreon.com/BrickImmortar

[@chasjetty8729]

Thanks again friend.

[@Straswa]

Love the collab, nice work Brick Immortar and Oceanliner Designs.

[@Andy-rp3ee]

Both these channels are some of the best content on KZbin. I had little idea I would be so fascinated with maritime topics - from history/exploration, to boat building like Leo and crew on the Tally Ho. Great stuff! In the case of BrickImmortar the reverence in which you treat the victims of these tragedies is good to see. Thank you for keeping them in our minds.

[@teddyboragina6437]

I love it when youtubers I like, like youtubers I like.

[@ShadowU69]

I remember during Hurricane Sandy a Father and Daughter died together when Sandy slammed Tottenville here on Staten Island and Sandy also slammed the whole beach side from Tottenville all the way up to the Saint George Ferry Terminal and Staten Island lost lives from Tottenville up to Midland Beach and i was the worst Hurricane ever tha slammed the Staten Island Community and it’s ur seeing this @BrickImmortar i want u to know tha Staten Island has been more stronger and more prepared for the next Hurricane tha will hit Staten Island because it’s a very wonderful place to visit and it’s more safe than New York City itself 😊😊😊😊

[@Biggus_Mickus]

There's ten feet of water below decks, all 3 masts have fallen off, we're on fire, being strafed by Stukas, the Red October is torpedoing us and a Kraken is eating the stern. The ship is FINE!

[@bloodraven8020]

Situation normal, tell the caosties to sodd off.

[@somedumbozzie1539]

and delicious.

[@arypramana6154]

"sir a black hole is forming on the deck" "dang, Wednesday already?"

[@faizalf119]

This sounds so British lol

[@mikefln]

I was expecting a Blues Brothers “Let’s roll” at the end.

[@mipmipmipmipmip]

If only the crew of the Bounty would have conspired to move the captain from his position.

[@silverwheel]

Set him adrift!

[@themidcentrist]

That irony also occurred to me. They should have put him in a raft, gave him a sextant and a few days provisions, and set his ass adrift. Like captain Bligh he was a good navigator and may have still survived if he managed to ride out the storm.

[@quintomalley1196]

Mutiny on the Bounty? Inconceivable.

[@thepolishnz]

you mean partake in a mutiny, on the bounty?

[@amywill9185]

Hahaaa😂! Yes indeed. He sounds a bit befuddles.

[@abrandenburg10]

"A ship is safer at sea than in port" Narrator: "they were in fact, not safer at Sea"

[@MotJ949]

IIRC, Pride of Baltimore II was, in fact, in port and was completely unscathed. As someone once said of Pride II, they operate with the caution of a vessel with a Roman numeral in its name. *all* the other tall ships on the eastern seaboard were in port and *none* were lost in Sandy.

[@sassyfrass4295]

my pop was us navy in the pacific - they always left port and rode out typhoons at sea. he said the worse thing was all the vomit swiling around on the the floors with each wave! but Bounty was not built like modern naval vessels. sad story

[@data_abort]

Even if the ship were safer... That's to say nothing of its crew.

[@Dankleberrrrg]

If that were true, ports would be unusable from all the sunk ships in them

[@bethl7602]

Yeah, every other ship on the Atlantic coast was as far upstream as they could get and tied to every mooring they could find. IIRC, the Facebook posts were coming from a crew member’s father on dry land.

[@MissJediMouse]

24:32 Sailors 200 years ago lived in fear of the real possibility of a hurricane appearing over the horizon with zero warning. I can only imagine at how gobsmacked they’d be to see the decisions made by someone with access to a fucking live satellite feed!

[@zombiedoggie2732]

"Red skies in morning, Sailor's warning" if I got the saying right.

[@sd80mac]

@@zombiedoggie2732 Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky at morning, sailors take warning.

[@sirridesalot6652]

@@zombiedoggie2732 "Red sky at night = sailors' delight. Red sky in morning = sailors take warning".

[@TDR1990]

@@zombiedoggie2732 the captain of the El Faro said the same thing...and went down.

[@JenkemSuperfan]

​@@TDR1990 because he ignored the warning

[@FlightMate]

Sail a rotten, leaky wooden ship, with an inexperienced crew and out of service comms, into a hurricane. Take in water, lose power, sleep in soaked beds. Crew gets exhausted and hurt. Pumps fail. Water gets waist high in engine room. Send emails downlaying the situation. Refuse to abandon ship. That captain was in such denial that he completely ignored the danger.

[@ryano.5149]

Clearly another graduate from the Schettino school of seamanship...

[@callmeonkeshiasphone]

he is still telling ST.Peter the ship was fine

[@radiosnail]

@@ryano.5149 To be fair, the Master of the "HMS" Bounty was a fool, but not a coward.

[@laxingpiper23]

It's like one of those Gordon Ramsey episodes where the owner is in total denial of the absolute state of the place.

[@weaviejeebies]

Shades of El Faro, for sure. First, he got so fixated on the potential damage or loss of his precious hull that he proclaimed better at sea than in harbor and essentially hard sells the idea to others. I don't care if the craft is ostensibly safer, people are 100% safer on shore during a hurricane. He's got crew telling him to launch lifeboats, crew on their own initiative trying to put survival gear together, and he doesn't listen to his people. Again, so much prioritization of hanging on to the ship at all costs, and his position as master that he decided one mind is better than 3, 5...17. There were so many opportunities to turn around before things were critical that he might have changed the entire outcome, including the two lives lost.

[@daedalus_20v]

39:55 If "the boat is doing great," but you "can't de-water" when you're _actively taking on water inside of a hurricane..._ the ship is not doing great. It is the opposite of doing great.

[@stanettiels7367]

“I’m marooned on a desert island with only a life raft for shelter. Ship is doing great...”

[@UnreasonableSteve]

maybe he meant a different boat??

[@Galfrid]

Drifting in life raft now. Ship has sunk in hurricane. SHIP IS FINE.

[@don_5283]

Talk about irony. The first Bounty's crew should never have mutinied, and would almost certainly have been ultimately better off if they had stayed with the vessel and completed their voyage. The second Bounty's crew should definitely have walked away from the proposed voyage when given the opportunity before departure, and would have been ultimately better off for doing so, and indeed saved the skipper's own life.

[@Yakubmeta-son331]

well said, such irony

[@Roddy556]

Accurate summary

[@youknow-vy1pe]

Nah. Read about the conditions that lead to the mutiny. The crew would have died, they were dieing. They crew that would have "completed" the voyage wouldn't have been the same as the starters. The captain starved the crew, they were dieing of starvation. The mutiny 'failed' ultimately because states sides with their awful captains.

[@ZGryphon]

Well, all things considered, I think Captain Third Rank Yevgeni Bonovia, executive officer of the Soviet submarine _V.K. Konovalov,_ said it best: "You arrogant ass, you've killed us."

[@MacMilly707]

Well said

[@bimmerbomber2002]

I'm reading through Hunt for Red October right now, actually lol

[@aleksanderkorecki7887]

I remember this quote very well. But what surprised me more was the actor who played Bonovia, it was Polish actor Krzysztof Janczar (as Christopher Janczar) who I've seen in many movies before that, but in Polish. It was nice to see a familiar face in the cast.

[@mogyesz9]

I think the bigger factor was he captain was convinced, not without reason that the ship would be left behind if they ask for assistance. He was desperately trying to save the ship, calling help in his mind was not an option.

[@JenkemSuperfan]

​@@mogyesz9the ship is not as valuable as the human beings on it

[@crow9553]

The Captain's irresponsibility, carelessness, and incompetence were off the charts!

[@user-mg6wn4hs5t]

I'm not even finished watching whole video yet but have already determined the captain is as worthless as a tick on a dog. smdh People like that should not be put into such positions of authority. For shame!

[@arueshalaetablebuildingsociety]

Honestly, if it weren't for the weird, WEIRD legal restrictions surrounding it, I'd almost say that concluding the Captain committed "Negligence" is a huge understatement. This series of informed decisions made by the Captain, deliberate misrepresentation of the ship's condition, and the inexplicable decision to sail directly into a Hurricane seem decent grounds for Barratry.

[@Cpt_Wolf]

Captain's big ego played a big role in here. Big ego's and big ships usually don't go well hand in hand.

[@guachingman]

@@Cpt_Wolf they dont go well but sure as hell they do often together. This captain seemed to be in a search for glory in his wooden vessel and his fascination with the eye of he storm

[@evanhughes3027]

Somewhere, somehow, there's a chart for this.

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

Why would ANYONE deliberately sail a 60 year old replica wooden ship into a hurricane?

[@hanzzel6086]

That replica lasted 10x longer than the original Bounty (built 1784, burned 1790), and might still be around if it's crew had "mutineed" 48-16 hours before she sank!

[@bjbrown]

There are men with bravado and ships with failings. She shouldn't have been out in that storm. I am looking in my rear view mirror. Having sailed the coast and knowing how storms will change with a shake of your hat this ship should have stayed in port. It matters not, she and the crew are long lost. This is a sad ending for the crew. The ship? Who cares.

[@unitedfront9717]

Because you think you are god

[@windwatcher11]

His mortal defect was hubris.

[@vernicethompson4825]

It sounds like a case of "get-there-itis" (thanks, Juan Browne of the blancolirio channel!): the overwhelming desire to reach one's destination at any cost. Much like flying a helicopter into a fog bank, as in the crash that killed Kobe Bryant.

[@RagingMoon1987]

Bounty and El Faro remind me so much of each other. Aging ship, violent storm, irresponsible captain. Both ships had all three.

[@Sableagle]

The "It'll be raahht" attitude that leads to collapsing racking, collapsing trailed decks, counterbalance forklift trucks rolling over dock-workers' feet, tonnes of goods falling 10 m off racks, mobile racking 12.5 m tall snapping off 2 m above the floor, reach trucks falling into holes in a floor that was frozen before the concrete had cured, rain coming through the roof onto battery chargers, thigh-thick columns of ice forming overnight where roofs leak, safety bollards getting smashed off by forklift drivers cutting corners, the bent bolts from the old ones being cut off with angle-grinders sending sprays of glowing sparks across batteries being charged and thus giving off hydrogen gas, ...

[@corvinredacted]

"We're going to stay here until it's not safe to be here," is a wild safety plan.

[@milescorporosus4058]

"How do we know when it's no longer safe to be here?" "I dunno, vibes."

[@bo7341]

This situation was so avoidable at so many points. The loss of the Bounty might be the most avoidable tragedy that's been covered on this channel, and that's saying something.

[@BType13X2]

Its this or El Faro

[@koiyujo1543]

yea the captian was a f***ing idi*t

[@SnakebitSTI]

They set out with gaps in the hull filled with compound not rated for immersion in water, rotten wood "fixed" with paint, 0 of 2 backup pumps operable, under-crewed, and almost no experience among the crew... The most flattering comparison I can come up with is that it was more seaworthy than a duck boat. And apparently the captain thought it'd be a good idea to skim the eye of a hurricane.

[@markreeves9350]

El Faro

[@dosmastrify]

Let's talk about ducks

[@ianmacfarlane1241]

Can't believe the Capt made a succession of too late decisions. Also can't believe that he had time to throw shade at the on shore Association member for getting the wrong fuel filters.

[@michaelberens2814]

if it hadn't been for those fuel filters, I'm sure everything would have worked out /s

[@SnakebitSTI]

Captain low-key taking the time to admit that he hadn't checked the emergency gear before setting sail to play chicken with a hurricane...

[@mwalton9526]

If he wanted to make sure they were the right ones, he should of checked them before setting sail.

[@Demiglitch]

As the Captain he or someone nominated by him needed to check in the first place. He is where the buck stops.

[@nate2838]

@@SnakebitSTI Lol, i've hear of playing chicken with a train, never a hurricane. Guess thats one thing slightly less certain than chicken with a train.

[@usaturnuranus]

Massive respect to USCG rescue teams, especially the swimmers. Best of the best.

[@BadWebDiver]

Too true!

[@L.J.McEachern]

This video is the representation, "Oh, it gets worse." I don't think incompetent is a strong enough word to describe the actions of the captain. The amount of hubris displayed in this incident is off the charts.

[@belleslettres354]

💯

[@sabretooth1997]

I'm not sure what the word is, but I would argue that calling him incompetent is off the mark. It would seem he was very competent in his negligence.

[@tocsa120ls]

The skipper is still trying to send the last email as we're watching.

[@tomarmadiyer2698]

Dude used Netscape Navigator

[@unitedfront9717]

Wild 💀

[@ryano.5149]

"I've been underwater for 12 years...but the ship is fine!"

[@musewolfman]

"As per my last Email, the ship is fine, we just need pumps."

[@mwal223]

I am amazed such a cowboy of a sea captain managed to live that long, and his actions only cost the life of one other

[@SnakebitSTI]

One thing I've learned from reading up on all sorts of incidents ranging from maritime disasters to high alpine avalanches is that someone having a decades long successful career doesn't mean they won't one day end up the subject of an incident report which describes in the politest possible terms how they did absolutely everything wrong. Some people are just very lucky until they suddenly aren't.

[@elLooto]

@@SnakebitSTI In trading we call this phenomenon "being right for the wrong reasons." If it happens enough you end up believing in your reasoning. Which works until it doesnt. Analyzing what could have gone wrong with a successful trade is as important as analyzing a bad trade. Still, losing some money is a lot less of a consequence than losing a boat full of people.

[@samiamgreeneggsandham7587]

No kidding. Thank God for the USCG.

[@ridhosamudro2199]

Well, he had a such old horse so he can't ride that often

[@alandpost]

Normalized deviance, taking larger and larger risks until the luck runs out. Columbia wasn't the first foam strike on a shuttle, Challenger wasn't the first o-ring erosion, etc.

[@MissJediMouse]

Only one piece of tall ship sailing lore has survived the two generations since my ancestors sailed, captained and built tall ships; that cyclones are to be feared and respected at all times. I’m so fucking angry, that someone in a time when we can see storms coming before they appear over the horizon would choose to voluntarily place his ship and crew in the path of one is so beyond the pale.

[@Halinspark]

Surely if you're putting to sea for safety, you'd just go up the coast of Canada and maybe visit Greenland or something. I don't know what it costs to operate one of those ships, but surely it would have been less than the cost of a disastsr and two lawsuits.

[@t1intern677]

Pride and ego sink more ships than any storm.

[@stephenhill3286]

Yes but what about loose lips?

[@Fusilier7]

It's shocking that the captain, was so arrogant he deliberately sailed his aging, problem ridden replica vessel directly for a hurricane, he could have killed everyone on that voyage. Even as the Bounty was in clear trouble, wouldn't believe his ship wouldn't sink, but in the end, he paid the ultimate price for his hubris, and took one deckhand with him. It has been almost a whole year since the implosion of the Titan submersible, this reminds me of that, two captains who had too much confidence, that they thought they were smarter than the sea ... they were not.

[@bjbrown]

The sea always wins.

[@themidcentrist]

The captain of the El Faro too. They both wanted to get to their destinations "on time" despite not being under any pressure to do so. The Bounty captain was the most egregious IMO since he didn't have any cargo and wasn't concerned about getting a promotion from his employer.

[@piedpiper1172]

@@bjbrownUSS Constitution givin the sea’s win streak a hard press thou

[@f40carz93]

@@piedpiper1172227 years and counting 💪🇺🇸

[@namAehT]

@@f40carz93 IIRC there's some debate about her actual age. It wasn't uncommon for the Navy to "repair" a ship by simply building a new one and slapping the old name onto it. The USS Constellation is a great example of this, the original ship was disassembled in 1853 and another ship was built with the same name.

[@Paul_Wetor]

One crew member said before leaving, "It's only a superstorm." I read that somewhere and thought, "You idiot. That doesn't mean it's less than a hurricane, it means that Sandy is so big that 'hurricane' doesn't accurately describe it."

[@nthgth]

Yeah I remember it being very clear that "superstorm" meant an _upgrade_ from a mere hurricane

[@soyevquirsefron990]

39:49 “the filters you got were the wrong filters” the captain takes the time to throw shade at the guy on shore like that’s the root of the problem.

[@rscull210]

“oh and BY THE WAY Dave, JUST THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW”

[@nwvfd22]

" Keep in mind, the Coast Guard's findings and lessons learned tend to be formatted quite differently... and the Coast Guard can be a bit less, diplomatic, in their wording." The first five personnel points end with " This constitutes negligence." 'Less diplomatic'... no kidding Sam.

[@q3st1on19]

Something somewhat cathartic about the way the coastguard writes their findings

[@musewolfman]

That was far more diplomatic than I hoped for. "This dude really screwed the pooch. I mean, really. Goddamn." But I guess a USCG report is different than a USCG "talk about it at the bar."

[@blotto5]

Hearing the captain's initial plan to sail east of the storm I thought ok, sounds reasonable enough. Must've still gotten too close and swept up in the storm. Unfortunate but the decision isn't *completely* divorced from reality. Listening to the emails about him thinking of trying to sail along the west side: *whispering* don't... NHC downgrading Sandy to tropical storm: DON'T Bounty captain starts sailing west: NO NO NO STOP WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? I could understand if the accident had happened when they were trying to avoid it sailing east but trying to skirt around it to the west is just reckless negligence in the highest order. It's infuriating that he got somebody else killed for his carelessness, should've only been him paying for his recklessness.

[@bjbrown]

Never go on the bad side of a storm.

[@wenthulk8439]

Indeed

[@SnakebitSTI]

Better to not be in a hurricane than to be on the "good" side of it.

[@MrKeserian]

That's something I don't get. I'm from Massachusetts, and from a sailing family, and while I've only toured a tall ship, I do sail, and have a basic understanding of the mechanics at work here. First of all, "a ship is safer at sea" is a total, and complete, lie. Your ship is safer in port, tied up, behind a breakwater, and hooked up to shore power. Hell, even if she sinks, she's in a relatively shallow harbor, and it's not that hard to refloat and dewater a ship in that environment. Second, I don't understand why he turned south. Even if he didn't think the harbor he was in was good enough, he could easily have sailed east, then north, up and around Cape Cod, and then tucked into port along the Massachusetts coast. There are plenty of fantastic, well protected, harbors there: Boston, Salem, Marblehead, and Gloucester to name a few. Or hell, he could have just kept going east until the hurricane passed south of him and then turned south safely. I just don't understand why he thought going anywhere near that storm was a good idea. Massive steel oil tankers, huge cruise ships, and even Navy and Coast Guard vessels were scrambling to get out of that storms way, or to find shelter in Port. What the hell made him think that an aging, compromised, half rotten wooden SAILING ship (which is generous seeing as how her sail plan seemed to be pretty badly set up going by her maximum speeds) with frankly barely effective engines was going to survive that? What I also dint get is that literally anyone who's ever been out on the Atlantic in any sort of vessel what their two biggest fears are, they'd be a fire on board and being caught in a hurricane. It's practically instinctual that you don't go screwing around with hurricanes, and this guy was home ported out of Florida, he should have known that!

[@SatanicBunny666]

@@MrKeserian My take on the decison making of the captain is that it can only be explained by him being essentialy an adrenaline junkie and blided by pride. See the clip of him early in the video talking about 'chasing hurricanes'. It's a good bet he's done something like this before, survived, and that went to his head.This strikes me as the behavior of the classic wannabe 'old seadog' behavior where he's focused more on the epic tales he can tell back at his local pub about how 'all the others stayed at port but we went right on through, and on a sailing boat of all things!" Given all the data about the ship, the crew and the conditions he had access to, there's no rational reqason for him to not head east and make sure he gets enough distance between them and the storm before heading south other than 'Hold my beer YOLO!' -mentality, which usually tends to affect men much younger and less experienced than him, but we all know there are some guys who never truly mentally progress from their early 20s and will seek out adventure at any cost.

[@MerchantMarineGuy]

Six hundred miles east of Norfolk, just after Sandy has passed, spent three days transferring 30,000 tons of ammo via helicopter. 40’ swells with a 240 second period I’ve never seen anything like it. Standing on the deck I could see the other ships flight deck and then minutes later they would be above us. I’ll never forget it.

[@rickdunn3883]

I attended a Maritime Academy, sailed ships for 18 years. Been in many storms, hurricanes, etc. This was incompetence by the Captain. Note how improper emergency preparedness and maintenance will compound a bad situation.

[@Oliepolie]

Note how he took a wooden sailing ship into a hurricane

[@SnakebitSTI]

Are there accounts of ships being abandoned in good order and without accidents? Because I'd be genuinely curious to see a video on such an incident, particularly covered in the level of depth Brick Immortar goes to. It's easy to find case studies on things being done wrong, but very hard to find case studies on things being done right.

[@budgreen4x4]

​​@@SnakebitSTI HMS terror HMS Endurance Ships that just got stuck in ice and we're left. There was another I can't remember abandoned in the Arctic circle that was abandoned and then thawed out and kept floating to different places to get stuck before disappearing

[@McNubbys]

​@@budgreen4x4 I believe the one you are thinking of is the Baychimo.

[@satagaming9144]

@@Oliepolie Halsey sailed part of the navy straight into Typhoon Cobra, lost 3 ships and 790 men. Sailing anything into a hurricane is dumb.

[@ames2000]

i just wanted to say how much i appreciate y’all for providing actual closed captions instead of the youtube auto generated shit. i have an auditory processing disorder and having captions has made it so much easier for me to understand what you guys are saying. thanks again :^)

[@seppo532]

He’s more than a legend! He’s our friend, Mike Brady, from Oceanliner Designs. I love this collaboration so much!!!!!!! I hope there are more in the future. I loved learning about the technical side of these old ships. In elementary school I spent a night on the CA Thayer. It was really memorable.

[@kailoveskitties]

Sam really missed that opportunity when introducing our friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs at the beginning of this video lol

[@jordanwilliams8040]

Mike Brady is the man

[@donallan6396]

This Captain preceded Stockton Rush in the Hall of Fame of Stupidity. A total disregard for safety.

[@SolidAvenger1290]

Including the captain of the El Faro. The man kept leaving the bridge amid Hurricane Joaquin in 2015, stating, "This storm isn't bad at all. Sleeping like a baby". They had multiple attempts to avoid the storm. Still, the captain believed his "mental model" that they would avoid the hurricane and survive the rough weather at first, given their previous experience in Alaska's waters.

[@Framo60]

@@SolidAvenger1290 And he based his judgement on weather information that lagged three hours behind the actual developments ...

[@kinghenry100]

I remember boarding this ship in Halifax just before she was lost at sea. Very sad.

[@local_authority]

Are you still lost at sea? Turn on GPS we'll come get you

[@MacMilly707]

That is pretty crazy and interesting at the same time.

[@kinghenry100]

@@local_authorityi am drifting

[@c4h5n2o1]

yet another disaster with one man at the center of it all, having spectacular delusions of how in control he is.

[@lolalalia4119]

I was this many years old when i finally learn I've been saying "floundering" when it should be "FOUndering" 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@SPierre-dm4wo]

'Floundering' does mean something very similar (if less dire), though, so no facepalming needed; it's an understandable switch! And I'm speaking as someone who usually gets irrationally annoyed and judgmental about things like 'free reign' and 'for all intensive purposes', lol.

[@nthgth]

​@@SPierre-dm4wo Haha thank you for that, I had the exact same thought as OP. So it's not quite the eggcorn we thought it was! (I'm usually like you about things like that)

[@thatsaniceboulder1483]

⁠@@SPierre-dm4wo mmhmm….. and: pacifically, I could care less, I couldn’t breath, pisghetti and preform instead of perform.

[@ripwednesdayadams]

if a captain thinks their ship is unsinkable, that ship is definitely going straight to davy jones’s locker.

[@nthgth]

The fraternal twin of Murphy's Law, pretty much. Same with the first rule of firearm safety.

[@ImpmanPDX]

Oceanliner Designs, Waterline Stories, Oilfield History and even Scary Interesting. The number of capable folks covering maritime disasters these days is just amazing!

[@vernicethompson4825]

Add Part Time Explorer and Big Old Boats to your list. Big Old Boats focuses on the Great Lakes, which will educate you like never before about all the shipping that has gone on there for over a century.

[@Pippy1]

​@@vernicethompson4825PTE is such a good channel

[@fernandomarques5166]

Don't forget Maritime Horrors, our fav coastie

[@sd80mac]

And they do it better than any major modern network could. These remind me of the documentaries from 30 years ago: No nonsense, no conjecture, no sensationalism, just the incident as it played out and all the known facts. I miss docs like this!

[@iivin4233]

"I hear the voice of my ancestors on the wind. What are they trying to say?" "We would not go out into a storm like this! That's why we survived and you can still buy one of our houses downtown!"

[@Tacitusreborn]

I remember hearing about this whole incident when I first got into the tall ship industry in 2014. I know people who had done restoration and shipwright work on her. It's just a fact of life that the historical organizations which own and maintain these ships are desperately underfunded and do the best they can under the circumstances; man of these ships exist in a delicate condition with the owners juggling what issues to fix and what to let go on extremely shoe-string budgets. That being so, and knowing that the ship was in a somewhat delicate condition, the decision to take her south into the landward side of the hurricane baffles me. Hurricane Sandy was a storm with a pretty predictable track. There was little evidence that she'd turn out to sea and all forecasts suggested she'd turn to make landfall on the mid-Atlantic coast. It's true that often the safest place to be in a storm is offshore, Bounty could have very easily kept heading east and avoided the storm entirely. Furthermore, knowing about the rough weather and the state of the ship, I would have taken the couple of days of fair weather to double and triple check the pumps, generators, etc. and made sure everything was working. I would have run safety drills. I don't hold the crew responsible. They preformed heroically in trying to save their ship. I feel that the responsibility lies solely at the captain's feet. Many of the crew were inexperienced and looking towards their experienced and knowledgeable captain to handle the situation properly. The fact of the matter is that he had both the experience and the information to keep his ship and crew safe. It's such a shame that two people died and that a fine ship, there are so few sailing ships still kicking about, was lost on account of extreme negligence on the part of someone who should have known better.

[@Curt_Sampson]

Not just the captain's feet, though he was clearly negligent. The shore organisation should also have been involved in ensuring that there were regular safety drills, pumps and other equipment were tested, and so on. Better USCG regulation of a ship like this probably would have helped with that. Sure, some would say that it might kill a few organisations that are already extremely strained, but is that as bad as killing a few people? A big issue here was that everything involved with ship safety appeared to rely on just one person: the captain. I don't know why his decision-making was so poor in this instance, since he was apparently quite knowledgeable, but we know that this sort of thing can happen to _anyone,_ which is why we set up organisations and systems to review people's plans, rather than just leaving it all up to one person.

[@markup6394]

I still cant see how a ship would be saver offshore with a hurricane approaching... Mind to elaborate?

[@lordofchaos5378]

​@markup6394 at sea there is more escape room if things turn poor if they had headed east around likr the original plan It would have been quite likely that it would have been fine If a ship breaks off her moorings during a hurricane in a harbor there is a big problem and likely damaged

[@valshevchenko2601]

She was a beautiful ship: I could even understand cutting corners for durability, with craftsmanship eating up the budget, if her owners kept her purely as a floating museum and movie set. The fact that she was being sailed long distances at 60 years old was jaw dropping, never mind her being wedged right into the hurricane. Genuine question from someone with limited experience: would anyone have expected an 18th century tallship to even survive this long?

[@Alan.livingston]

"The boat is doing great. We can't dewater." I think the captains idea of doing great is different to other peoples.

[@callmeonkeshiasphone]

im like WHY DOES HE KEEP SAYING THIS.

[@nthgth]

Yeah I thought that was weird. Maybe in sea speak, the condition of the boat in that context just means it's still in one piece and could be saved if they could just get the water out?

[@BType13X2]

@@nthgth generally speaking any ship could be saved if you can get the water out. The Titanic totally saveable if you could get the water out. But you know its the whole not being able to do that...

[@Merennulli]

Admittedly, my entire knowledge of sailing comes from channels like Mike Brady's and yours, but I can't fathom why he wouldn't sail northeast to move tangentially away from the range of predicted paths. Obviously, letting the ship sink in port while the crew went inland to shelter was the right call, but even valuing the ship over human life doesn't add up.

[@bethl7602]

There were potential sponsors and a fundraiser scheduled in Florida

[@KitsuneRogue]

​@@bethl7602Well in hindsight,a fat lot of good those prospected sponsors did the ship's crew.

[@zombiedoggie2732]

@@bethl7602 Uh I doubt the sponsership would of went on with hurricane damage.

[@559viking]

I sailed on this Ship in 1999 for Sail Training being a USS Constitution Navy Sailor, we sailed from Rhode Island to New York, I remember feeling unsafe when I was on watch and checked the bilge and noticed alot of water, I reported it to the skipper and he asked me if the duck was floating...they had a duck on a string hanging over the bilge, I said no, he said we are fine then, if the duck is floating then we have to increase the sumps. Oh boy was I freaked! I know it's normal for all wooden vessels to have water but it seemed like alot. Never the less I had a blast on Board that Ship and was saddened to see this on the new back then. It's a weird feeling to know a ship I sailed on is at the bottom of the Ocean. RIP to the captain and the deck hand that went down with her. You have the watch now Bounty, take care of them.

[@DBravo29er]

Captain was behind the power curve at every turn. Also, I don't understand why he decided to intentionally mischaracterize the condition of the vessel in every email and every communication?? Erring on the side of an incredibly and shockingly optimistic interpretation of every negative circumstance. It's baffling to me.

[@sunsetlights100]

Loss of Pride perhaps why captain avoided may day call early ... ..

[@hanzzel6086]

"The ship is fine" sandwiched between "we can not dewater" and "we have 4-6 hours" is bloody insane.

[@johnvanzoest4532]

I think that's known as toxic optimism. He seemed to be at least partially in denial.

[@themidcentrist]

The captain was 63 years old, maybe he had early onset dementia? I'm not saying that to be disrespectful, but I can't otherwise explain his actions. Perhaps there was some pride, overconfidence, and a lack of understanding that hurricanes, even weak ones, are still very large and dangerous? Of all the ships you don't want to sail into a hurricane a wooden sailboat is #1 on the list. Even the large oil tanker didn't want to take the risk.

[@SnakebitSTI]

It seems like some people believe if they can convince themselves, they can convince the weather too.

[@pullt]

Is truly very sad that a great crew member, Claudene Christian, was lost.

[@ryano.5149]

"A ship is safer at sea..." I mean, sure, when you have a ship in good repair, a highly experienced professional crew, and a captain not out-of-his-freakin-mind enough to sail directly into the path of one of the most powerful storms in decades, sure. This whole story is absolutely infuriating.

[@KRDecade2009]

Halsey sailed task force 38 through Typhoon Cobra in 1944 and lost the destroyers “Spence” “Hull” and “Monaghan” these ships while only a couple years old were practically new compared to the 60 year old wooden vessel. Though with Halsey cases he literally wasn’t given accurate information until it was too late to do anything about the situation as his own fleet and the army was given him two different readings

[@GhostMe303]

In an emergency take control of the situation, before the situation takes control of you

[@AshesOfArcadia]

El Faro says Hi! Unbelievable.

[@TexasVernon]

Although the Coast Guard service has well-known deficiencies in management, the front-line members who directly work to protect people on the water are absolutely amazing.

[@TonydeBellis-iq6ly]

I spent 20 years at sea, half of that as master Two points. 1. Confidence does not equal competence. Important to know the difference. I cannot imagine putting to sea in hurricane warning conditions reliant on pumps. Mechanical systems all break and break faster when getting bounced around. Murphy first law. 2. You do a really good job.

[@Historybuff_769]

So excited to see my favorite KZbinrs collaborate with each other

[@jessicam5712]

Now we just need Tom from Part-Time Explorer and we'd have a maritime trifecta

[@themidcentrist]

Yeah. Gotta find a way to work with Angry Video Game Nerd and Kim Justice. 😁

[@dungeonrat]

I'm stunned at the level of arrogance bordering on madness displayed by this "captain"! To deliberately sail any vessel into the path of a hurricane is complete madness. Hindsight is 20/20, but there was no compelling need to undertake this voyage at this time; in a vessel with so many obvious and glaring defects.

[@MIchaelArlowe]

Probably wanted a nice headline to help sell the ship. “HMS Bounty survives Hurricane Sandy”

[@newbatgirl]

@@MIchaelArlowe I suspect you may be close to the truth here. Makes me wonder what the emails he was sending to the organization throughout the situation said.

[@tomconley2458]

It’s ironic that of the 2 people who died, the captain and Claudene Christian, she was a descendant of Fletcher Christian from the real story of the Mutiny on the Bounty.

[@leosv838]

Gotta admit, the candor of the Coast Guard's report as opposed to the neutrality of the NTSB was refreshing. Sometimes you just need an investigation report that makes you go "get their ass".

[@Halinspark]

Practically every section he read ended with the phrase "This constitutes negligence." Can't say I'm surprised the report sounds downright irritated with the captain by the end when they have no explanation for sailing right at it.

[@zaggoth]

"Ship is fine" providing a lot of buoyancy to those emails.

[@Warui88]

Ships with this name just can't catch a break...

[@guachingman]

there s something to that..titanic titan, bounty..

[@Sableagle]

A break? EVERYTHING broke!

[@iRunKids]

The whole time I was thinking that the captain did this on purpose, I’m glad the USCG put that in the report. Do you think he wanted to go down in a blaze of glory or maybe he thought he would captain a new ship from the insurance? Or was he really arrogant enough to believe that he could sail through a hurricane in a pos boat with a bunch of greenhorns?

[@hanzzel6086]

Who knows? But I'm going with "never assume malicious where simple stupidity will suffice".

[@bennitori4]

He may have wanted the bragging rights of saying he captained the ship through the hurricane. Or he thought his historic understanding of the situation was so strong that he'd know enough to actually navigate the ship through a hurricane. He probably didn't think the ship would go down. He may have wanted the experience of what the sailors went through. But a historic experience isn't worth risking lives. Especially lives that trust you to protect them.

[@themidcentrist]

My uncle sank his own boat for the insurance since he basically never used it and couldn't afford it anymore. During a tropical storm he went to the marina and "pulled the plug" and blamed the storm for the sinking. I was a kid when this happened and didn't know the truth until 20 years later.

[@unitedfront9717]

It feels like arrogance honestly.....and when he finally realized what he has done it shows in those final emails and then going down with the ship

[@CM26617]

Sounds like the captain had a 'mental model' of how the storm was performing, especially since the initial, if temporary, downgrading of the storm's strength before it was reclassified the following morning; not to mention the idea he held about how intense winds around the 'eye' operated. Problem was - as in the case of SS El Faro - the captain got literally jarred out of it far too late to make any difference. IMO, the decision to 'cross the eye's T' was simply inexcusable, even under the best of circumstances at the time.

[@ryanwitman8672]

I just came over here from Ocean Liner Designs. I love both of these channels, I’m super pumped that you guys did this, glad to be here 👍

[@Arnold-Larsen]

The captain had a delusional romantic idea of struggling at sea and systematically put his crew in incressingly more dangerous conditions.

[@nerysghemor5781]

On an aviation note, it absolutely blows my mind all the different missions the C-130 is capable of. It goes into conditions you wouldn't dare put any other plane into!

[@MalleusSemperVictor]

"Hey, remember that shipping vessel that sunk in a hurricane in 2006? Let's do that except with this leaky 18th-century replica."

[@morganambler5281]

I didn’t think I could be more excited when I saw a new BI video drop, but then I found out it’s a collab with our friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs!

[@ScoutSniper3124]

15:14 I spent many years as a USCG Ships Engineer. If I had ever heard a Captain, especially one of this type of vessel talk about "Chasing Hurricanes" I wouldn't be anywhere near that vessel, not for ANY amount of money. This idiot was literally a shipwreck waiting to happen.

[@Brock_Landers]

I remember when Sandy came through. I live in Pittsburgh, so obviously we didnt have it anywhere near as bad as parts of NJ, NY, and parts of the extreme NE, but I remember that it was very stormy and windy. I lost a row of four pine trees that were in my backyard. It ripped the grass and dirt up all the way around them all to a mound of roughly 35' by 20'. I also remember hearing of the sinking of the Bounty on the news.

[@katiwithoutthee]

AHHH BI AND OUR FRIEND MIKE BRADY FROM OCEANLINER DESIGNS.... MY SKIN IS CLEAR MY CROPS ARE WATERED MY AUTISM IS FED

[@hagus42]

Yes!!! I clapped my hands with glee!

[@user-yi3yx2fn7g]

LOLed so I scared my cat!

[@user-rn5ks8sf5x]

The unnecessary loss caused by one man’s hubris.

[@wilmantube]

Seeing you do your first true sailing video is *awesome*. As a rec sailor who's racing across the pacific next month, I find this type of stuff absolutely fascinating. I'd love if you'd consider the Farallones tragedy a few years ago. There's a bunch of stuff you could cover, including wave height calculations, negligence, and a tragic backstory. It forever transformed ocean sailing in the SF Bay Area

[@zombieshoot4318]

Amazing that only two died. Captain, based on how the crew described him near the end, was probably too injured to do anything when he went into the water and the deckhand was just bad luck. I hope the 2nd Mate who told her to go doesn't blame himself. He was stuck and couldn't free himself from the ship. I'd bet he thinks had he not been stuck or told her to wait he could have kept her alive. The ship should never have sailed.

[@michaelsinger4638]

WTF would you ever think it’s a good idea to sail into a freaking hurricane? Especially with a ship like this.

[@bjbrown]

Ego. The vessel was not safe and the crew was traveling with incorrect information.

[@JosieJOK]

I feel stupid because I can’t figure out why he didn’t head north instead of south.

[@mommy2libras]

​@@JosieJOK because they were supposed to be moving the ship to St. Petersburg, Florida. And he was like many other captains (and pilots), who have egos too big for their britches, believing they know better and can outsmart nature because "I've been doing this for years". They believe they can't make mistakes and anyone who questions them is just wrong.

[@elLooto]

@@JosieJOK Because the ship was going to a port in Florida, which is south of where he was berthed.

[@guachingman]

he wanted to prove a point

[@c-man7740]

I remember as a kid, seeing the famous picture of the swamped Bounty on the news. As a kid who was obsessed ships it saddened me. I must say, the sheer, negligence and denial of the captain in this situation is astounding to me. However that is almost always the case in tragedies that are so avoidable. I thank you Sam for covering this tragedy and your collaboration with Mike was a treat for all of us fans. You both did an amazing job.

[@thomas_dries]

If this ‘Bounty’ being referred to is the HMS Bounty, then we’re in for a real treat.

[@sergeysmirnov1062]

It's the replica of the Bounty

[@SpearFisher85]

Make sure to watch oceanliner designs collab vid

[@thomas_dries]

Ah! I see that now, I had no idea there was a replica made of the Bounty.​@@sergeysmirnov1062

[@thomas_dries]

​@@SpearFisher85 I am off to watch it now! Thank you!

[@boredi6050]

no

[@ericmcguire9573]

Heartbreaking. Reminds me when my ocean survival instructor said, this is how midshipman die, he wasn’t joking.

[@davidherbst]

It's pretty clear to me that the captain wanted to experience a serious storm in a tall ship. He cost an innocent person their life to cross an item off of his own personal bucket list.

[@app-o-matix]

I grew up in St. Pete in the 70’s and we would go at least once a year to the Bounty. It is one of my favorite childhood memories. I loved going and I would imagine myself living on it. So sad that it is now associated with tragedy.

[@gprich82]

Does the ship float? No Do the pumps work? No Has the engineer ever even worked on a ship? No Is the hurricane coming? Yes Perfect. Send it.

[@richardwalter8341]

There is a suggestion in the sailing community that BOUNTY was scheduled to appear at St. Petersburg for a fee. It is well known that it operating such vessels is VERY expensive, and forfeiting an appearance fee can have a great impact on operations. Like in so many circumstances, follow the money.

[@kathyjones1576]

What a great example of "pride goes before a fall". The captain's 30 year successful career created a prideful attitude that, ironiclly enough, kept him from being a good captain on this voyage.

[@boingkster]

As an Australian I'm keen to hear your compilation of information on this one. Cheers for all you do.

[@katywalczak9839]

I got to go aboard Bounty at a tall ship gathering...i was saddened by her loss during Sandy. Thank you Sam for another well done narrative

[@paulw4310]

I understand command structure very well, but I think this was a situation in which this ship named Bounty should've had it's own mutiny! Seriously, there was something VERY SERIOUSLY flawed with that captain's judgement and decision making. "Reckless" is a huge understatement.

[@orionbarnes1733]

"A ship is safer at sea than in port" Yeah, the Titanic was famously already in New York when that iceberg came in out of nowhere and slammed into the ship, can't believe Cameron left that detail out of the movie

[@jennifertwede7142]

Crazy karma and mirroring between these two Bounties; it’s so fascinating! Congrats on a fabulous collaboration!

[@hardcasekara6409]

I remember seeing the Bounty Replica when I was a kid and it visited San Juan Harbour in Puerto Rico, it was a nice sight and the crew were really kind to me and my stepfather thou he did most of the talking for me since i was too nervous to talk in english to some strangers, its a shame i later found out what happened to the ship and that some of the crew passed away.

[@niallgoddard02]

Few things make me happier than a new Brick Immortar upload. ❤

[@Deltarious]

The term 'casualty' is much easier to explain if you just treat the vessel as a person, which is the root of a lot of naval terms anyway. If the vessel is 'injured' in any way, then it's a casualty

[@callmeonkeshiasphone]

luckily the ship was fine

[@Ntwadumela84]

The parallels between the loss of the Bounty and the loss of El Faro are striking.

[@Prototheria]

Dude, that was the smoothest transition from content subject matter to promoting Patreon membership that I've ever heard.

[@MacMilly707]

Mistake after mistake after mistake. Super sad story. I'm definitely going to take the lessons from this story and never let anyone lead me to death. RIP to the women who lost her life. Poor lady.🙏

[@grelymolycremp7838]

1) Beautiful video as usual, your exceptional quality and respect to victims is fantastic. I/We greatly appreciate your effort and dedication. 2) The usual of industry/naval terms is enjoyed, I hope to see more of the vocabulary. 3) USCG brutality in reports is definitely justified; not just risking their lives, but also the illogical decisions made by hubris. Egos need to be popped.

[@CCCW]

What a collab. Two channels I love cooperating is always a very special treat. Thank you both and everyone that helped!

[@billsmith5166]

I would never have though that KZbin, as it was ten years ago, would eventually produce documentaries that are superior to those of PBS in it's heyday. This is outstanding work. Thank you for the video.

[@SolidAvenger1290]

Awesome!! A contribution with our good friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner designs.

[@houseofsolomon2440]

"A ship is safer at sea than it is at port." Ridiculous fallacy.

[@martcon6757]

The ship may be, but unfortunately nobody took the crews lives into consideration.

[@markup6394]

In case of a Tsunami, that saying would hold true... but this wasnt a Tsunami.

[@gavriloking5637]

Even if that was true - which is isn't - people are safer on land than at sea.

[@jordanledoux197]

Even if that IS true, it's definitely not safer for the CREW.

[@blackhawks81H]

I mean, it really depends. An aircraft carrier? Yeah definitely, a massive container ship in a good state of repair, sure. Even a big old sailing ship that's in good shape? Probably. But a 120 foot replica that's been a museum ship for years and needs a LOT of work, with an under-experienced, too small crew? No way in hell.

[@corvinredacted]

"A ship is safer at sea than in port." I don't know whether that's true, but I do know the crew sure isn't safer at sea. That really says all you need to know about their priorities.

[@sauter1]

In general it's true. Out at sea you have sea room, there's way less chance of hitting anything or running aground, and also the deeper the water under you, the less chance of steep breaking waves, turbulence etc. Statistically most bad things that happen to boats, do happen on or close to land. But that does NOT mean you're automatically in no danger when out at sea, especially when there's something like a frigging hurricane happening, and the ship and crew are not in the best of conditions...

[@abnurtharn2927]

She was here in Bergen Norway back in 2011.

[@DJCatmom]

It's quite bizzare to see a sailing ship disaster with modern rescue services involved. Even though I'm not into sailing ships at all, this is a very interesting and unique case and it's great that you brought it to light as thoroughly as you usually do with your videos. Thank you, Sam!

[@Nostradankus]

This was beyond reckless, this was flat out suicide. With the possible exception of the newer deckhands, everybody on board *must* have known this was going to end poorly. The ship was barely seaworthy and any storm probably would have sunk them but it being Hurricane Sandy certainly didn't help. It's a testament to just how good The US Coast Guard is that only 2 members of the crew lost their lives, and in the case of the captain I believe that death was intentional, at least subconsciously. Perhaps the captain was worried the Bounty would get destroyed by Sandy in port and so made the choice to fabricate his own last stand rather than let her to go down on her own. A tragic decision.

[@MadScientistsLair]

It's like the captain of HMS Bounty and El Faro were in a competition to see who had the most hubris, who could make the worst decisions, and who's ship was least seaworthy...a literal race to the bottom of the sea.

[@nickw7619]

As someone who lives a block from the beach in Atlantic City, NJ I can not even imagine what it was like for those on board.. I live in a 5 story concrete building next to the Tropicana and it felt like the building was going to sink. The absolute hubress of the captain and non-reciprocation of respect for the crew and their lives is astounding

[@dracorex426]

I know they worded it that way because they technically can't confirm that the captain is dead, but it's funny how the report mentions the death of one person, and the captain.

[@Silverghost992]

The team up we needed, can't wait.

[@littlespinycactus]

I know nothing of tall ships, but I know a fair bit about timber: one look at those photos of the decaying hull and, like the doomed vessel, my heart sank. In such a parlous state of disrepair, it's a wonder she held together as long as she did in those savage conditions, and nothing short of a miracle that most of her crew survived. So sad that the brave deckhand didn't make it, though there's some solace in knowing that she was returned to her loved ones. As for the Captain, he is where he belongs.

[@pastorjerrykliner3162]

The similarities between this episode and the El Faro are striking... Both include Captains who either underestimate the storm they are sailing into and overestimate their ship's capabilities. They also feature Captains who are operating on out-of-date information and who trust their own opinions over-and-above reality and over the opinions of others.