Bring a Chair Backpacking? Philmont Gear | Seating Options Discussion

[@gratefulhikes]

Thanks Andy! Very helpful video. Our troop has been using the Alite Monarch for many years and I highly recommend it for those that WANT a chair. 16.5 ounces if you ditch the worthless bag and use a rubber band to hold it wrapped up. Great US company too. I personally used my chair the first night at Philmont, but after that the chair stayed in my backpack for the rest of the trip. I had planned to use it around camp or on trail during lunch stops but as an advisor and being allowed to enjoy the porches, swings, and other seating that the Scouts are not allowed to use, I found I didn't need to break it out. If we end up going this summer, I will be bringing a CCF sit pad to soften the logs and benches. It weights 1.1oz and doubles as additional pack support and padding. I can't justify the extra 15oz. But that is me and my decision. Everyone needs to hike their own hike. I am happy and confident in this decision because I have hiked 1000 miles without the chair to make sure I really won't need it. As a lead advisor, it is critical to have the entire Crew understand the pros and cons of each and every piece of gear they put in their pack. Videos like this are a great resource to help teach that! I feel this analyzation of gear is especially important for luxury items. Yes I believe a chair is a luxury item. Others in my Crew disagreed and felt a chair was a critical piece of their first aid kit, and I can see that side of it too. In the end, each person of the Crew has to completely understand each piece of their gear (and crew gear) as well as completely understand the Trek (mileage, elevation, camp type, water availability, weather, rules and regulations of the area, etc) and they need to come up with a gear list that works for them and that they are happy and confident in. 2 lbs is a lot of possibly unnecessary weight for a Scout that may be limited on how much weight they can carry due to their body weight. If the Scout is happy and confident in their decision to bring a sit pad instead of a chair, that is what matters for this kind of item. Let's also not forget that not everyone is using their chairs at the same time. Some people might be sitting around camp while others are off climbing the Tooth. You could have one chair shared between tent partners or have the medic carry a stool as part of the Crew FAK. There are so many ways to share the load! You are ONE crew after all. I will say that this is a very hot topic and I for one am glad that you decided to tackle it. I feel like these kinds of discussions are the ones that can get people excited about gear while forcing them to really think about the pros and cons of what they are throwing in their pack. There are a few other items like the chair, that I hope you discuss in the future. I know if and when you do I will share them with my Scouts just like I have all of your other gear videos. Thanks again Andy. Be well. Grateful

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Wow... well said, Michael. There is no RIGHT way. Everyone needs to find the right combination of items that will make them successful on the trail. Every scout can be different from the next. I have the same approach for all my scouts when they consider bringing an item. How much weight does it add? How much does it add (benefit) to your trip? Does it meet a need or a want? Is there a better option to solve that need/want? Do you need to cut something else to make room? Do we still have all our NEEDS covered? We are limited by space, weight, & cost. We need to address the environmental and mental challenges we will face in the most economical way possible. Once we address our needs, then we can see if we have room left for our comfort (luxury) items. If someone really wants to bring a chair on the trip, great... Do you have the room? did you reduce other excesses to make space (without cutting essentials)? It's a grand puzzle that we all solve differently. And to be honest, I love some of the creative ideas that they come up with to solve their own question... What is best, FOR ME? In the end, I want them all to have an amazing experience. And having them properly prepared, in their own unique way, is a key piece to that end... Thanks so much for the comment!

[@matthewdougherty1730]

Former 2013 ranger. I LOVED my crazy creek camp chair that they sold in the store. Has the logo on it, which for me, Philmont truly is my second home. But the chair, I would unbuckle it and use it as my sleeping pad as well so it was a 2 for one. and if it rained, it was one of the more solid things to keep rain off my face. had a bad experience with a lightning storm in the north country in 2011.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

That sounds like the definition of multi-functional!!! I'm not sure I'd want to use it as a sleep pad but some of the young guys get by with almost nothing... Thanks for sharing!

[@spinningbacksidekick]

I've had my Crazy Creek for close to 30 years. Easy to clip on to the outside of the pack. Unclip & sit. Indestructible. Can be used as an emergency sleeping pad in a pinch.

[@camerononeill5355]

Crazy creek chairs are amazing, you are also able to use it as a splint and easily collet firewood while at camp.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

I've heard people mention them before, but I've not tried it. How heavy is it and how small does it pack down?

[@MickeyDonald]

Thanks sir. The only unfortunate part of the video are the pre-inflation surge prices! Thanks for all the insight!

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Inflation is the hidden tax, no doubt about it.

[@garygill7960]

The best part of a chair for me is the ability to lean back comfortably. Helinox Chair Zero is my choice, but then I am an old guy.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Personally, I agree. I really enjoy having the Helinox chair zero in camp with me, but there are so many options and many different preferences out there.

[@BlindDesertPete]

With a wall or tree as a back rest I can nap in a zero old guy, phil 66.

[@collegedad8656]

Great information. Going back to Philmont for a second time and taking my REI chair again. Able to save weight with better options for a tent, sleeping pad, and other gear choices to keep the chair a key option. Used it every day on our last 12 day trek and it saved my butt😉👍

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

We all prioritize things differently. But it is definitely possible to make decisions on some gear (cut weight) in order to make room for our priorities or luxuries.

[@barefootterry3785]

Getting geared up for 2nd trip to Philmont with my son. Might be looking at a chair for this trip! Thanks for the info!!!

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Glad to hear it was useful. Have a great Trek!

[@dannynye1731]

I carried one that was labled PTC Staff Lounge, Do Not Remove for a week and put it back on our day off. 40 years ago next Summer

[@evilalec555]

I sat on the ground during my philmont hike and never had a second thought

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Like I mentioned, for many, that is completely acceptable. But if you had one of these items (even a sit pad), would you have been more comfortable? I did trips with my chair and without. I will never go without my chair again. It is THAT big of an improvement in experience for me. I had back surgery the fall before going and sitting on the ground was not a good option for me. I was still able to keep my base weight, with a chair, to under 15 lbs. Everyone must decide just what is worth it to them. I just wanted to share some popular options for people who were considering taking something. Thanks for watching and adding to the discussion!

[@johnwayne4217]

It’s fine until it starts raining the entire time like my trek, but I really wish I had a chair ngl.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Enerything is tougher when it rains the entire time. ☔

[@johnwayne4217]

Yeah it is we climbed mount philips, from cyphers mine all the way up philips and camped at the top it was snowing in the summer. 2 guys got hypothermia because we had no clue it was going to rain and did not pack warm enough. And from there it rained the entire time till the last day.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

What dates were you there roughly?

[@vapoe]

While it’s large and will have to be strapped on externally, a slinglight is the most comfortable thing there is. 18oz and you can sleep in it with the headrest.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

In my backpacking adventures, I can honestly say that I have never seen these before. I'll have to look into those a little more... Thanks for sharing with the community!

[@mikedendooven6484]

Great video, but the background music made it hard to hear you.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Sorry about that. I've gotten better over the years... At least I hope...

[@GearreportdotCom]

I like the way you approach this topic in the video. I can rationalize a light, compact sit pad. But to me, this whole topic is pretty silly for most people. Most crews won't have a single person that "needs" a chair. I've seen too many folks get flat out lazy and useless to the crew when they have backpacking chair. I might be able to make an argument for someone with health issues to benefit from a chair... bad knees, bad back, etc. And for car camping or backpacking elsewhere where the hikes are shorter and there isn't program to keep you busy, then a chair makes more sense. I just don't think a chair makes sense at Philmont for all but the most afflicted. Just about everywhere I've been at Philmont have trees that you can lean against. I can sit on my 1-2oz pad and lean back on the tree or on my backpack if I need back support. What I hear most is that the older crew advisors need chairs. I think the older crew advisors would be FAR better served by aggressively reducing the amount and weight of their gear. More "luxury items" means more work, more chance of injury, more likely to slow the crew down. And here are some additional chair thoughts... gear-report.com/best-ultralight-chair-for-backpacking/

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

I would agree that the chairs definitely fall into the luxury category for just about everyone. The question is does it provide a value? How big of a value is that to you? And do you have room for the weight/space penalty? Creating a backpacking setup is like putting together a big puzzle. It has to all fit together in the end. There is only so much room and weight that we can carry. And I would fall into the camp that the further (lower) you can get from your max weight carrying ability, the better you are going to do out at Philmont. I might be able to carry a 45 lb pack, but I'm pretty sure I was happier carrying a 15 lb pack. My son was the smallest boy on the trip and couldn't imagine having to carry a 35+ lb pack. We spent the time picking apart his gear list until we got his base weight down to under 18 lbs (we knew crew gear, food, & water would be sizable additions later). If you pack well, you can earn the right to pick a luxury item or 2 in my book. But you have to make sacrifices to make this work. He took 1 Nalgene, trekking poles, and a stool as his luxury items and was right at 20 lbs and he did great with the physical challenges of the trek.

[@GearreportdotCom]

@@AndyParrishOutdoorsI think we almost completely agree. So, I'm not arguing here. :) I don't see it as "earning the right to carry luxury items". It is more like, earning the ability to be on the trail with the youngsters. I think a lot of crew advisors don't even consider that them being old and slow REALLY does have a massive negative impact on what the crew can do. Everything that can be done to make us old folks faster is a massive win for the crew. I've seen more than a few advisors carrying so much weight that they could barely make it. But if you ask them, they would tell you they have to carry more to take some weight off of the kids. The truth is that the kids would LOVE to carry a bit more and NOT have to keep stopping to wait for the overloaded advisor to catch up. But that is another discussion... :)

[@Ninety9924]

I would have to disagree that it is "silly" to discuss a sitting option. My observation is that scouts do not think they "need" a sitting option when they are packing; however, once they get to the camp site ready to chill out, they sit on any chairs/stools they can find that belong to someone else. To me a sitting option is not for "resting" on the trail but for chilling out at the camp, playing games, having a meal, enjoying camp fire ...etc.

[@CampingGearReport]

@@Ninety9924 And in those areas at Philmont there are already plenty of logs, stumps, etc scattered around just waiting to be sat on. I see taking a chair to philmont as similar to taking your own patch of dirt to pitch your tent on. It is already there in the campsite. Why carry your own?

[@karenyoung9996]

My chiropractor liked the form of the Flexlite air better than the Helinox Zero. I have never taken a chair before but bought one and will test it in our shakedown trips before our trek this summer. BTW you never told us in this video your favorite but I think you took the Zero with you, right? Schill Brothers actually suggested the Flexlite air frame with the Zero fabric seat. That’s a pricey chair when you do it that way LOL Another thing to consider for Philmont - how many times did you take those 20 min breaks? We’re doing a 7-day trek so I’m considering using my foam pad for breaks but one video showed ants everywhere so that has me leaning toward the chair again

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Breaks could be called by any crew member. So in very challenging conditions, it could be every hour. After the 1st few days we encouraged the boys to call a 5 if possible, rather than a 20. I use the Helinox chair zero. I'm not sure I'd recommend the hybrid option. 😂 But that is interesting isn't it? & yes, pricey too... But the Schill Bros do love their chairs! I'm putting the flexlite air through its paces at the moment and I will have a comparison video in the near future... The Helinox has better stability side to side, while the flexlite air is a bit more stable front to back... Both are very close in comfort. But early impressions have the helinox chair zero slightly ahead.

[@Ninety9924]

I find most of the light weight chairs too low to the ground. If you have problems with your back or knee, it is hard to lower your body to sit and later trying to get back up. My favorite is the REI aluminum trail stool that weighs 1 lb and 2 oz.

[@billmacfarlane8864]

Outstanding information! A few quick questions if I may. Did anyone have trouble with the chairs sinking into the ground? Is a chair sheet or ball feet necessary? Perhaps a future subject, what about something on camp/water crossing shoes?

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Thanks Bill! I'm not aware that anyone had that issue on our trek. We were very lucky that we only had one day on trail with heavy rains. I've had that issue on hikes back east where you can encounter longer stretches of soggy weather. That issue has made me seek out more solid ground options. I know they do sell those accessories, in case you want to pick them up, I've just never felt that I really needed it. I think it also depends on the weight penalty. Funny that you should mention that topic... I am working on a footwear discussion video where that will be discussed... boots/sneakers/camp shoes/sandals etc...

[@billmacfarlane8864]

@@AndyParrishOutdoors ...crocs?

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Crocs are definitely a common option.

[@gratefulhikes]

​@@AndyParrishOutdoors Camp shoes were another one that I would hope you would tackle! I can't wait for that one!

[@nedanother9382]

Im not even done with the vid yet and I just cant make sense of it. 16 ozs! with one comfort use. My butt pad and the pad in my pack are good enough to sit on and is my backup sleep pad when it pops. ...it always pops. I dont think I have any single use items in my kit. At 58 I personally find the lighter pack to be more important during the hard part vs the extra comfort during the easy part. Thanks for the vid.

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

As a dad with back surgery and knee surgery in the past 3 years, I'm interested in comfort on trail AND in camp. I got my base weight under 15 lbs on my last Philmont trek with a 17 oz chair included. I think if you prioritize your choices, you can absolutely go super light and super comfortable... 👍

[@nedanother9382]

@@AndyParrishOutdoors thats the dream baby thats the dream. i figure the more I stare at the pile the lighter it will get.

[@nedanother9382]

@@AndyParrishOutdoors I have another question for you. and Im trying to get more people to do vids on this. So you got your load down to 15 lbs. (Just packed my latest up with 13 lbs 13 ozs.w a bear can) How does that translate into the weight that you leave the car with? I feel like we work so hard buying and assembling light gear then blow it up with too much food. Ive been heading out for about 6 nights at 23 lbs all in with a liter of water. Theres a future video to talk about the food and last minute "grabs" that weigh you down. What do you think? Cheers

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

It can be a lot if you are not careful... For me I find about a pound of food of day is plenty. The water is very dependent on the location. If water is abundant I may only start with a liter and only bring a total of 2L capacity... On drier routes I may have to carry a lot more... I'm usually pretty good about limiting last minute additions beyond that...

[@nedanother9382]

@@AndyParrishOutdoors wow! Ive found my soulmate. Its only you and I that believe that a lb or just over is plenty. I think the average is 2 plus. I hate taking food on vacation.

[@bahaakpinar6643]

Good info. Overly distracting background music. Too loud , repetitive and tuneless. Silence would be better. Especially for people who appreciate the 10 day + treks. :-)

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Thanks for watching & the feedback. Have a great Trek!!!

[@Slow_poke_hiker]

#IWTGBTP!!

[@parkerbowling2010]

Just use your sleeping pad. I’m not the only one who does this, right?

[@AndyParrishOutdoors]

Do you use an inflatable one?

[@parkerbowling2010]

I use a thin inflatable one with a super thin roll-up one. I sometimes forget not everyone has the thin one with them :).

[@jamesthornton3339]

Had a thermarest self inflating pad get punctured on day 2 of a 5 day trek through Pictured Rocks. Now my pad stays in the tent and my chair for by the fire. Haven't had that problem since.