British Leyland Speke Plant Closure

Story from the BBC Archives about the closure of the Triumph TR7 assembly plant at Speke. It's enough to put you off your dinner.

[@Haffschlappe]

I still have a Leyland Princess 2200 HLS, this was and is the best car I ever had, it never broke down since 1976! Only normal wear.

[@needleontherecord]

😂

[@DrDreggs1]

The workers helped kill it off themselves. I have heard the stories of how the different production lines for the different marques seemed pitched against each other, rather than working together to make good cars. Can you imagine one part of your workplace today regarding the people down the corridor as their enemy? Any places like that deserve to fail and most certainly will.

[@muppetrowlf1473]

This still happens today. Competition is natural. It's what made the British Worker so good. The problem is when poor leadeship allows the competitive nature in a workforce to be protectionst and negative. How do you get peope to put company 1st?. Very difficult question.

[@Watcher3223]

In other words, a house divided will fall.

[@Countryboy-cn1ob]

When the very people building the car call it a load of bloody rubbish, one can only imagine what pride they must have taken in their workmanship.

[@_Ben4810]

When the very people building the cars sabotage & vandalise their own products simply to spite the employer, then the best result for all was to shut that plant...

[@darrenwilson8042]

smacks of Rootes and the Imp - supplying poor quality components up and down the country just ends up with disputes with not only the management but also has plant blaming plant and thats simply the result of govt meddling in manufacturing they do not understand. It took NISSAN to come here with Govt assistance but also no interference to produce quality vehicles. Fact is as a result of Govt interference ( Brexit ) NISSAN Washington is doomed. I know I worked there.

[@stormytempest6521]

YOU SILLY HILLBILLY!

[@WelshyM]

Its quite sad looking at this. By 1970, Triumph motors had a decent line up of models but swallowed up in the dinasour that was BLMC the model range was not replaced and eventually died a sad death... Triumph was a decent brand that should be still with us today, just like Jaguar and Land-Rover

[@raypurchase801]

I recall watching this on the BBC "Nationwide" news programme, back in the day.

[@carpademen1066]

The workers interviewed should have made a motivational video. Their incredible positive energy is epic, can't believe the plant failed and produced absolute metal turds.

[@richardsimms251]

Please see my other comment about British cars. In 1967, I owned a lovely Austin 4 door sedan with a standard transmission and lovely comfortable leather seats. It was a very nice car but this car also, spent so much time in the repair shop that it also convinced me that I could not afford to waste so much time with a vehicle that would suddenly stop working on the highway as I went to university. The present Rover and other British vehicles look comfortable and classy, but I worry about the transmissions and electrical components and would never buy one. I anticipate that eventually no cars will be made in Britain. It is a competitive world out there which the British sadly ignore ( Brexit ). I wish they could change their thinking and pay more attention to how tough and competitive the world really is.

[@ABCDEF-yf4yu]

Merseyside had three car factories in the 1970s producing small rival saloons being the Ford Escort at Halewood, the Triumph Toledo at Speke, and across the Mersey, the Vauxhall Viva at Ellesmere Port, well just beyond the Merseyside boundary in Cheshire.

[@kenon6968]

and yet the docu talks about the merseyside disease, always goes back to blame the workers. Back then governments at least tried to invest in long term employment, now they seem to subsidize just the banks

[@errcoche]

Interesting comments from the one fella in the pub. Definitely true that fan failures, gear box failures etc can't be placed at the feet of the final assemblers. Also no doubt that the scousers were terrible workers. My dad was a senior exec at the Plessey Edge Lane plant back then, also in Liverpool. Scousers were/are notorious thieves and chancers ( clearly not all but also far too many ). Brits in general just don't have a work ethic. I started my working life in '82 at a GEC Telecom plant in Coventry. A sprawling campus of idlers with almost nobody doing any actual work. You could get in trouble for being remotely productive. Actually being good at your job is considered proletarian treachery. In all fairness, I haven't worked in the UK in 25 years so a miracle may have occurred ( but I doubt it ).

[@MarineAqua45]

Yes, I can see what you mean by that, by actually being good at your job. Its absolute madness.

[@abum4595]

I wasn't around then. But I think the worst of it is gone.

[@sh-ig9fm]

Managers fault useless management results in useless workers 99% of the problems at any level within the facility were probably lazy penny pinching managers.

[@grahamariss2111]

At least one of those "excuses" in the pub is not true. The claim they sent to Coventry for front wings, well I know this cannot be true, the wings were pressed and painted in Speke 1 next door, nothing was pressed and painted at Canley in Coventry at that time.

[@stormytempest6521]

GROW UP FELLA.

[@bradleymilton9372]

These are proper men who actually cared about thier job such a shame it went

[@zetametallic]

The Triumph plant closed when I was 2. I grew up a couple of miles away from it and there is an Asda and small retail park there now (opened 1987). Originally, it was known as the TR7 retail park and there was a (slightly rusty) example in a glass enclosure. The pub they sit in I'm guessing is the nearby Hillfoot which is part of the Stonehouse pub chain nowadays. A few years after the factory closed my Dad took me to see the factory site and I remember seeing lots of twisted rusted metal everywhere off the buildings I'm guessing. A bloke who used to live by me (died years back) worked there and he said it was an easy job, never did much. Needless to say he never worked again after that as he was work shy. However, the majority of Liverpool people work hard. There was a combination of many factors why it failed in this case and calling it the 'Merseyside disease' shows how biased the report was.

[@zeddeka]

There was definitely a huge amount of blame to go round. Industrial Britain in general was an utter shambles - far from the golden era that so many people would have you imagine. Regarding the "Merseyside disease" I think what was being referred to was the reputation Liverpool and the surrounding area got for having some of the most extreme union militancy in the country. It wasn't just the car industry, it also covered all kinds of other areas, notably the docks. It was such a problem that many companies refused to locate in the area. A lot of it was pushed by extreme left wing groups, which later manifested itself as the catastrophic "Militant" run council in Liverpool in the 80s.

[@fk4515]

Similar problems in the US however our President basically gave GM to the union (UAW), the union is now trying to cut wages, increase productivity an close or sell plants, you know the same stuff they've been protesting for last 60 years.

[@darrowby1972]

Fascinating story!

[@MattVF]

Closure cost us the Triumph Lynx. Which was a shame. Sad thing is that the convertible ended up a great car (when built in Solihull and Canley) and the TR8 should have been the car they started with, not finished on. Various governments nobbled the car industry by only allowing assistance if they built factories in Liverpool or Linwood (Scotland) in the case of Rootes.

[@kenon6968]

The lynx is where Mann's design really comes together. It was probably right to can it though, BL were already producing too many models, poorly, and the resounding thud their cars had in the US market wouldn't bode well for sales.

[@mrrolandlawrence]

We were one of the premier car building nations and ended up with nothing. Its basically corruption on a massive scale.

[@johndavies1819]

Roland Lawrence ..h

[@pit_stop77]

Corruption? No, more like total incompetent management a rubbish product.

[@jonnyc429]

Not corruption, we'd been getting away with building cars at a certain quality and selling them to the home market but when we wanted to be a more global player in the decades after the war, and when we entered the common market, our poor quality became very visible

[@sh-ig9fm]

@@jonnyc429 managers also to blame most were only in there position because there families had more money and had more power than everyone else. The Japanese put radios and heating in every car and made sure that managers know how the industry customers and market work when the rich of Britain saw this thay realized that there were no rich people who knew a thing about any of those 3 things and had spent hundreds of years inheriting the top positions in society and adopting that system into their culture bubble

[@arbjful]

@@sh-ig9fm I think they should have first focused on selling within UK, instead of selling to the US market

[@tracydrennan3296]

This American loved her TR7

[@MarineAqua45]

Tracy Drennan Its a pity, as those lazy, good for nothing, scummy, bastards did a dismal job on the majority of them. Your post,just proves that, that idiot who said that the TR7 was ‘bloody rubbish’ was a lazy bastard & spoke such bollocks & embarrassed the entire Triumph brand, in the process.

[@cl3mens]

Big thanks for uploading! :)

[@SuperOldShows]

This is depressing. I must say that although throughout BL various parties were to blame, in the case of Speke the lazy workforce were clearly responsible for it's failure.

[@juankenon]

SuperOldShows As a sports car it simply isn't very good, even in the malaise era there were better options for the money. You can meticulously assemble a car no one wants to buy, it won't change a thing.

[@BritishCommentWriter]

juankenon It wasn't very good, but it wasn't a complete dog either and there were plenty of worse cars available. The Ford Mustang 2 was made at the same time and sold a million units in the same market the TR7 was trying to crack. Was the TR7 any worse than that? Plenty of plants manage to make mediocre cars without closing down. Plenty of mediocre cars find owners if there aren't quality issues. And most damning of all, when production moved to Canley, and then Solihull, the quality dramatically improved.

[@bigmedge]

+BritishCommentWriter But remember, altho the Mustang 2 is certainly no clasic, in terms of build quality/reliability it was lightyears superior to the TR7

[@hermanmunster3358]

@SuperOldShows spurred on by militant socialist unions, who refused to understand capitalism, and market forces. The unions were largely to blame for whipping up anti nanagement sentiment, and advising workers to strike at THEIR every whim, and working to a slower pace. I am working class and proud. But I recognise tgat it is a unionised workforce that helped to kill off many industries, because the unions refused to accept that we had to be more competitive.

[@MarineAqua45]

juankenon Really, then how comes the TR-7 was liked in America, apart from its build-quality, which let it down? Are you telling me that those idling idiots in that pub, could produce better designs than BL legendary designers like Harris Mann, David Bache & Giovanni Micholetti or whatever his surname was?

[@woofusdad]

Thanks for posting this.

[@michaelmoran2022]

My father bought British cars right through the sixties and most of the seventies, he always bought British,I remember he bought a Renault 12 in 1978, he said he was no longer gonna buy British out of loyalty they were just thrown together.

[@kernals12]

The way I see it, BL had the same workforce as Ford and Vauxhall, yet the latter thrived while the former died, the difference of course was management.

[@cyrillicsam]

They didn't thrive, rather they failed much more slowly. Ford only makes engines in the UK & Ellesmere Port will likely close in 2019. Labour relations in Dagenham were agony by the '70s , Granada & Capri production went to Germany. I agree management must be a major factor - Nissan in Sunderland has great productivity.

[@mfletch3205]

Ford and Vauxhall (as Opel) imported from Germany...

[@juankenon]

I'd really like to see the whole documentary. BL had some disputable classics in their stable and a lot of mediocre rubbish. At any rate they didn't invest in any of them really. Coupled with byzantine management and you already have all you need to sink it. Toxic labour relations didn't help but the French and Italians seemed to pull through it. A sad chapter.

[@Chordonblue]

...and, the Americans can't resist an all-British softtop sportscar in the grand tradition. So... They made it a hardtop. Very Pythonesque - LOVE it! Made me laugh out loud.

[@leoncutajar1369]

At the time the car was designed US safety authority banned new convertibles which is why many cars from that era like the trans am and datsun Z had targa tops as a compromise.

[@AdamC66]

5'55" - this man is correct. Poor initial product design, lack of designing products for manufacture, poor quality bought in components... - can't be fixed on the assembly line, yet it's always the assembly workers who are blamed. Sad story all round.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

well ya see they hold the common man to all this work ethic bullshit propaganda just read the comments on here and you'll see the job worshipers curse the run of the mill line worker!! but humm when a turd in a suit says fuck it it's not profitable anymore lets just go home no one says shit to them no one lectures that turd in a suit all about the values and morals of work ethic nonsense!! nope they do whatever they want while the common guy gets all of the shit!! and we have to be on the receiving end of the lectures and treated as children and we are supposed to jump at the chance to build their dream but if we complain we are told to be ashamed and just bow to the company and worship our fucking jobs!! it's sick!!

[@matt8787fat]

@@American-Motors-Corporation Thank you and so well put as it is the truth!

[@sarjim4381]

@@matt8787fat I see an ex communist union member has shown up. You can say it's all management s fault but management didn't tell 15-25% of the workers to stay home Mondays and Fridays. I can't imagine how any company can do well when workers are essentially making their won work schedules.

[@thedangler1754]

That idiot at 0.42 that stated they would strike until it closed if necessary, well he got his wish. If this is the attitude to there work/workplace then there is no help. Frankly the workmanship was appalling and therefore thats why the public didn't but the vehicles. Unions ruled and thats what brought about the Thatcher government.

[@bolldamwad6086]

3:23 'No 2 _actory' Almost poetic.

[@Darwinion]

Part of BL's demise was down to the unions and strike action. But just as big a part of it was down to relying on old technology. While the Japanese for example were designing new engines etc. BL were still churning out shite designed in the 50s. Couple that with the staffing problems and it;s a recipe for disaster.

[@TheShiner46]

most BL engines were bullet prof it was the mentality of the workforce that thought the world owed them a living that shut the factory down

[@Cull-every-Tory]

A discontented, poorly motivated workforce is a primary issue for management to address and resolve. Poor product design and chaotic logistics and inadequate build quality demonstrates wholly inept management, both middle management whose responsibility it is to resolve and coordinate such issues, with senior management oblivious or nonchalant to the production chaos. American “Ford” achieved great and sustained success for decades in the UK with similar workers, indeed Ford’s highly efficient and productive Halewood plant was located on Merseyside too, so not an inherent local culture of failure, as some YT commentators have claimed. Working together, as a team with shared goals and sharing in the success makes the difference. The same culture and attitude that destroyed Britain’s own motor industry by failure, also delivered the failed Brexshit nonsense project too. Seems our problem is choosing leaders of substance, capable of understanding issues, leading, with ideas and an understanding that deliver industrial and commercial prosperity.

[@grahamariss2111]

The engine in the TR7 was the triumph slant 4 that was a relatively new engine designed to go across the Triumph range in the 70s.

[@thomashumber9762]

LORD STOKES. no investment- no motorsport- no new models that were any good.

[@darrensmith6999]

I think its a Beautiful car!

[@kenon6968]

looks way better in person

[@darren2514fv]

Originally broadcast on Nationwide and Look North (Manchester)

[@linearskater]

They were all too busy pulling each other to pieces at precise time when they should of been all pulling together to fix the problems.

[@darren2514fv]

The TR7 was made mainly for the USA where Leyland were trying to challenge the US big 3

[@grahamariss2111]

No they were trying to consolidate the MG and Triumph sports car business that had been US centric since the end of the war into a single product under the Triumph brand in belief they could improve profitability by the higher volumes. At the time this had been met by 4 models, Midget and MGB from Abingdon and Spitfire and TR6 from Triumph in Coventry. Also of course there was an error in the report, the plan had been that alongside the TR7, Speke would build the SD2 ( Triumph mid sized 5 door car), which it shared much of its mechanics, but this had died in the crisis that followed the companies collapse and nationalisation. The Amweican big 3 never competed in the small sports car market, however the Italians did and later the Japanese did with the MX5.

[@newuk26]

So sad what happened to the car industry. All went wrong when the government forced Triumph and Rootes to open plants in Speke and Linwood. Bolshy locals who had no idea how to put a car together, who didn't really want to work, and miles from the supply plants. No wonder it failed, unfortunately the Scousers and Glaswegians took the Midlands car industry down with them.

[@motsigman]

newuk26 Funny that idea, because Ford's is about 700mtrs away still going now 40 yrs later producing Land rover

[@MarineAqua45]

+blue Yes but Ford is American-owned & was a private company & not owned by the government. The government sold off BL, that's why.

[@cyrillicsam]

It hasn't been Ford since 2007 when it bailed out & sold Halewood to Tata of India. Ford only makes engines in the UK... maybe not for much longer. @@motsigman

[@grahamariss2111]

They had been doing Triumphs pressing and bodyshells at Speke for nearly 20 years when this was filmed, it was when they expanded with Speke 2 to do car assembly that things went from bad to worse.

[@NoosaHeads]

I had a TR6. It was the most unreliable car I've ever owned. However, when it worked, it was fun and involving. The TR7 was similarly unreliable but was ugly, effete, inadequately powered and boring. Whoever came up with the design must have been a competing company's infiltrator, sent into BL to destroy the company. It worked.

[@kennymackenzie2123]

You may have had a TR6, but i doubt you ever had a TR7. I have one that was made at Speke in 1977. I'm not saying there weren't problems with cars made at that plant, obviously there were. However my TR7 is actually very reliable and exciting to drive. As for it being ugly, that's your opinion. All i ever receive are compliments about the car, young people especially seem to love the design. I've never had anybody tell me it was ugly. Compare to todays generic blobs and blocks on wheels i actually think it looks beautiful. The amount of people that repeat the same nonsense about the TR7 is staggering.

[@andynixon2820]

Been watching 70s films about the British motor and motorcycle industry , there were serious issues with management , investment , striking workers and poor standards . But in 2018 it's obvious there was a traditional class divide that doesn't exist anymore , it truly was ' them and and us ' and we had to loose this before industry could be reborn in the 80s . The millenial generation have never experienced this and I'm glad it's pretty much gone .

[@matt8787fat]

It is not gone unfortunately were i work it is us against them management work's against us the worker every chance they get!

[@MarineAqua45]

Andy Nixon Unfortunately its not gone away, but its less obvious to the untrained eye. Where Ive worked & work at the moment, its defiantly ‘us & them’. The only way this will stop, is if a change in employment law, creates German-style or Japanese-style management systems-where by union & staff officials are on the executive boards & everyone pulls together by law or face criminal charges? Thats the myth of Japanese & German successes in their industries, explained. They do this & we don’t. At an interview over there for example, union reps & staff reps are part of it. Over here only managers & a token equality rep for ethnic minorities or LGBT minorities, may sit on a panel, alongside management, when they interview people.

[@davidbaker8957]

They built a new factory in a run down part of Liverpool what on earth were the management they thinking. They had the that’ll do mentality on everything they touched. Some of the cars they produced it’s like what on earth had they been taking the design’s were awful. Oh I forgot “that’ll do”. Haha.

[@MrRazzy34]

The government of the day forced standard triumph to build a factory in Speke Liverpool instead of their traditional Coventry same with the Rootes group they had to build new factory in Glasgow instead of their natural home base Coventry to make the Hillman Imp

[@sutherlandA1]

@@MrRazzy34 also BMC in Bathgate and Rover in Wales

[@erich3273]

That dude in the glasses reminds me of little Britain

[@gogriz91]

I thought this was a pilot for another season of The Office UK, a mockumentary right? Then to find out this is a documentary just makes it comedic gold, the only thing missing is Ricky Gervais and Karl Pilkington.

[@PlutoniusX]

I think your wage comparison is incorrect. German car workers are unionized and make pretty much the same as Union US autoworkers if not more. They also have better benefits due to the German government.

[@mikelovatt6625]

The TR7 in the film is a quiet car where you have very little road noise for a sports car of the 70's. You could have a conversation and hear the radio without having it on full blast. I know I had a new Speke TR7 in 1978 and after an MGB it was a way better car all round.

[@grahamariss2111]

So it should have been, it was a 13 year newer design than the MGB and even then the MGB was a reskin of some very mediocre components donated from BMC's very unexceptional Farina saloons of the late 50s. The TR7 took the new strut front end for the planned new mid sized Triumph the SD2 and the rear end from the Dolomite.

[@VCYT]

That factory is still there, it now called ellesmere port.

[@rayaspo4893]

It’s not, it is now a retail park.

[@darrenwilson8042]

Opening scenes have 2 workers entering in Vauxhall Viva HB's - says it all

[@davidbowie2046]

Theres been an asda on that site for years now

[@ChawneB]

Maybe it's days are numbered too if the retailer merges with Sainsbury's

[@GRAHAM5020]

That car is bloody rubbish the boy said, hell they were building them.

[@BritishCommentWriter]

GRAHAM5020 That part really shocked me. He KNOWS he is on camera, he knows he was going to be broadcast to millions of people. To publically slag off the company and the products which put food on your table isn't just ridiculously unprofessional, it's mind meltingly stupid. So what if it's a shite car? Alfa Romeo, Renault, Jaguar, Lamborghini, Lotus, Fiat, Maserati, Ford, Vauxhall and dozens of others have ALL made utter crap at one time or another. You didn't see their workers on the goddamn googlebox pissing and moaning about it. Because this is the kind of horseshit that shifts the public perception from "company that makes a crap car" to "crap company".Oh, and this car that he thinks was so shite? When they moved production of the TR7 to Canley, Coventry in 1978, and then finally to the Rover Solihull plant, quality dramatically improved. Funny that.

[@GRAHAM5020]

BritishCommentWriter Well said.

[@MarineAqua45]

He probably was jealous he couldn't afford it on his wages, at the time. Typical militant twat & if someone had that attitude working for a chef in a kitchen, by saying the foods crap, they'd be booted out the door on their arse & someone would be waiting to replace them. That dickhead didn't realise how lucky he was to have a job in an area of high unemployment.

[@craigworswick9329]

MarineAqua45 Huge difference between making a meal and a car.

[@MarineAqua45]

Craig Worswick It’s about attitudes. Militant fools like this never wanted to work alongside the management & went on strike for the daftest of things imaginable, like the wrong door-parts. These lazy bastards should have gone into the senior management offices & told them that their lower managers were bloody useless & show them the problems with it. Not go down the local pub, bemoaning crap which is what happened here. What’s wrong with the worker, going to the purchasing office & telling them, they’ve cocked up if no one listened to them? Nothing that’s what. Donkeys leading donkeys.

[@rolandjuno1091]

I am from Sweden but I am very interested in british accents and dialects. If you look at the scene from the pub from 5:24 to 8:14 there seems to be different accents. It starts of with a man sounding more intellectual than the others. Than we have some drunks that don't sound exactly the same. If you you are an expert on british accents, where are these people from since I don't think they sound the same?

[@zetametallic]

South Liverpool.

[@kennymackenzie2123]

They all sound like Liverpool accents to me, the man sitting down at the start in the pub has a less harsh accent than the other blokes, but it's definitely still a Liverpool accent.

[@stormytempest6521]

​@@kennymackenzie2123 A more refined accent was spoken by that man, I know I live there.

[@Land_Cruiser_40]

0:00 to 0:35 What cars are the Triumph factory workers driving? I only recognize a Volvo Amazon and a Ford Cortina (I think). Can anyone identify more of these cars? I suspect not a lot of them were BL products?

[@sutherlandA1]

I saw a Ford Corsair, a couple of Vauxhall Vivas (Merseyside made), Rootes arrow, ford zephyr

[@evilrobottolhurst]

look at this video and then say that weak management (hardtop for the US market, mutuality agreement 03:30) and bolshie unions (Motor magazine's test car fell apart 03:14) are innocent. In 1977 you could buy Japanese, or one of the new generation of front-engined Volkswagens, and get great performance and good reliability. Rust sometimes only followed as late as three years later.

[@grahamariss2111]

The hard top v soft top was not really a management error, at the time of designing the car it seemed likely that the US would ban soft tops so the hard top was prioritised. They had wanted it to be a targa top but at that time nobody knew (including the Japnese) how build one at that price point. The soft top version was intended to follow, but was held back due to the quality issues and the waiting list that existed until word got out about the quality. When production moved to Canley the soft top was introduced as part of cars relaunch.

[@richardsimms251]

My father bought mostly Land Rovers in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Most of the time they were in the garage. The mechanics did not say nice things about Land Rovers. Since then, I would never buy a British car and it is now 2022. I now buy only Japanese as I feel American cars are not consistently of good enough quality or reliability. Too bad for the workers. It is a shame.

[@insertnamehere5809]

Land Rovers had a lock on the 4WD market in Australia, but as soon as the TOYOTA HILUX & NISSAN PATROL came into the Australian market, that was it for British Leyland.

[@kenon6968]

@@insertnamehere5809 in Latin America they still soldier on, well the Spanish built ones. A lot are still used as work vehicles, though dearer fuel prices are sidelining them. Still command a premium over anything other than an FJ or the original MB Jeep.

[@achitophel5852]

Liverpudlians have a well deserved reputation of biting the hand that feeds them. I moved from Speke, my birthplace at the age of 17 and never went back. And it wasn't a new attitude. Liverpool dockers went on strikes during the war. Imagine U-Boat surviving merchant ship crews on convoys reaching their home port and seeing dockers on strike.

[@stormytempest6521]

You are so wrong, in fact those are outrageous remarks, and you know it.

[@Indul1]

Do you understand what happened to Leyland...for 10-15 years after 1945 the company did not build new factories or install new assembly lines/plant and equipment...that was the basis of the collapse of the industry from the mid 1960's onwards....Blaming the workforce is a typical British cop out.....like blaming the England football manager for the failures of the team...look deeper...

[@grahamariss2111]

Speke was a new factory at the time of filming Speke 2 was less than ten years old.

[@uskiwis]

Is the same true for the US auto industry?

[@ianjarrett2724]

Most militant workers in UK.

[@roberthughes9527]

The scousers always thought Monday and Friday were bank holidays

[@kernals12]

even in britain they were on a crash course with the Americans, and they didn't have the resources

[@kernals12]

no, the us car companies were not as bad as BL and by the mid 80s they had realized the errors of their ways

[@darrylcpreston4043]

I live near more than one former GM plant. Yes, they realized the error of their ways in the 1980's and made at least adequate cars for a while. Then, they reverted to crap, and went bankrupt in the Wall Street 'too big to fail' mortgage crash of 2008. So, USA taxpayers bailed them out, and the cycle continued. At this point [2021] they are entering a new crap phase, and making huge coin out of their resultant lower costs. Not a penny for the taxpayers who were out $Billions when the dust settled in 2013.

[@spartacusvikinga]

Sad.

[@realbuildsthebasics8091]

What an incredibly, incredibly biased and misdirected report. I was old enough to buying cars and driving at the time ... the build quality was incredibly poor. Yes I watched TR7s come off the truck with mismatched seats, missing parts and in several cases with engines having rod knocks due to missing bearing caps. Now many many decades I own a well sorted pair of stock TR7s and they are great little machines. I'll be keeping mine forever. As to production numbers ... well over 100,000 sold in North America dispells that myth and that was inspite of that very same build quality problems. Sure the car had design issues, needed more power and a 5 speed to be competitive in the market. I am sure there were management issues. But it was the build quality problems were the arrow to the heart. I knew many first time TR7 buyers that loved the car, but would never buy another due to build issues. My experiences anyway.

[@mikecawood]

It was the unions striking that caused the Speke plant to close. Michael Edwardes forced its closure. The hopeless workers at Speke deserved to lose their jobs.

[@darren2514fv]

a waste of £10.5m

[@mtpylkka11]

What can you expect when Austin, Morris and Triumph were competing against each other. There were too many car brands and owners had no courage to face it. No need to blame union or government.

[@hermanmunster3358]

I don't think there were too many brands per se. When you look at GM for example, they must have at least 20 global brands under their umbrella, yet are far from bankruptcy. Rover/Triumph/MG/Austin had some really innovative design concepts, and had great potential to be world beaters. Imo, the demise of BL, Austin Rover, and all the marques under that umbrella, was purely due to a fractious workfirce and militant unions who refused to compromise when faced with overseas competition. Add to that the inherent complacency within ALL departments over quality and reliabilty issues, and the writing was on the wall. The company was thrown more than one lifeline when first Honda collaborated, and the company became known as Rover, wIth a much smaller stable of marques and models. But their reputation was already tainted, and so Rover parted company from Honda. Then BMW bought a majority share in what became MG/Rover, but even THEY couldn't solve the problems of a unionised workforce. And it is not down to pay scales, which some would have us believe, as motor industry workers in Germany are on better pay and conditions than their British counterparts ever were. So if Germany, France, Spain, and Italy can have a profitable motor industry, producing good quality products right across Europe, then there is no excuse why we can't do the same in the UK. And they eren't just making budget low priced cars either. BMW, Audi, and VW are all premium brands, and they mass produce many best sellers.

[@grahamariss2111]

It was the Government in 68 that pretty much forced BMH to merge with the Leyland Group, so British Leyland was very much also the fault of the Government.

[@juankenon]

I mean *it isn't a* in the first line...

[@vincentreynolds2127]

Merseyside makes ZERO.

[@stephensmith4480]

So What does the Jaguar Range Rover plant at Speke churn out then? Toffee apples.

[@PlutoniusX]

Again, do you have a source. German Press? Where? When? Blaming Unions for everything is easy, however it is lazy and fails to take in account other factors that contributed to the decline of US Automaker market share. The Big Three are doing perfectly fine now which is do to the automaker focusing on their products and due to union concessions. However you just want to union bash, and you enjoy it. Sure they may have contributed but its more complex than that. You get a kick out of being lazy

[@vincentreynolds2127]

Good Old Britain.

[@philhealey449]

Job Centre man awaiting "unskilled" assembly workers. Was it any wonder the warranty claims were high ?

[@stormytempest6521]

What.

[@mikelovatt6625]

The French and Italian tax payers via their governments still subsidize their companies by preferential loans at low long term rates. Not really independent private companies in the true sense

[@grahamariss2111]

It was a combination of factors, badly conceived product, underdeveloped,, badly built by a poorly managed militant workforce so it could not succeed. Also I note a certain lack of honesty, the "we sent down for Coventry for right hand wings", well that is not true, as the pressing was done in Speke 1 next door, there was no body pressing facility at Triumph in Coventry.

[@PlutoniusX]

That is a lie. According to 2011 forbes magazine article German automaker workers made $67.14 per hour. Detriot`s two tier system is bringing in $20 an hour workers so your argument is laxing at best. Also where is your source regarding this mythical 14/hr wage in Germany?

[@sdrape4964]

Oh look! It's Detroit, but in the UK! Same story as DeLorean. GM. Chrysler. Probably others, but I'm sheltered LOL Just comes down to everyone doing the right thing. Start getting greedy, it falls apart. Every. Single. Time.

[@oktfg]

Not really. Detroit was a historic centre of auto manufacture and design. The plants in Merseyside where exactly that plants. Planted there by politicians to soak up unemployed dockers let go by containerisation of global shipping. Little or no skills and militant in view. Decision makers where 100s of miles away and mostly asleep at the wheel allowing sub-standard parts to filter around the system. Better designs would of kept it going another 5-10 years but eventually Coventry closed. The early closure of speke meant Liverpool has first dabs on European regeneration money long providing it with an opportunity to reskill making it one of the fastest growing cities in the U.K. during the 90s and today

[@peterbustin8604]

Hilarious !

[@dgs6315]

BL is a study on how not to do things

[@Rantomon]

A communist workforce? They may have been hardcore socialist but that is not the same as communist. That's not to say I agree with the damage their actions had on the British auto mobile industry but if you're going to level criticism against them then at least make it accurate. (Don't talk shite).

[@MarineAqua45]

Rantomon Derek Robinson was a member of the British Communist Party & so were other union members- so there was a hot-bed of militarism within the ranks, much like the mines.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

@@MarineAqua45 well Britten is different than the states ok but i can say that plenty of union workers here in the states are not left at all!! but the union does help with wages though now a days it's feeling like a company union!!

[@hermanmunster3358]

There is a VERY fine line between "hardcore socialism" and "communist" Communism is just a set of doctrines penned by a handfull of socialists.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

@@hermanmunster3358 not really at its core is a centralized group of assholes who Dole out everything and then generally they failed bill out enough to really keep people going and they're also notorious for neglecting their industry they're basically the same you can argue small stupid little points of ideology but in reality their whole goal is to control the people!!

[@jonh6503]

Always on strike

[@Darwinion]

Lazy Scarse Gits!!!

[@kailashpatel1706]

Take Trade Unions out of Leyland and the company would have gone to the demise that it did...It had none of the fundamentals to be a success. Blaming trade unions is the age old post war story of placing the blame where it does not lie...It fits an easy right wing narrative...

[@patcoghlan3852]

Leyland had garbage management and a poor investment and R&D strategy. But it also had a very low quality workforce, arguably one of the worst in the whole industry. Plenty of blame to go around.

[@MarineAqua45]

Kailash Patel The trade unions were infiltrated, by Marxists & Communists. They should not have been allowed to be union representatives at all.

[@mfletch3205]

Sorry, but at several key times industrial action crippled BL. The first were over the abandonment of piecework and the second was the tool makers strike in 1977. The one in 1977 was probably the most tragic as it kiboshed the European car of the year - the SD1. You can’t invest if you don’t make cars or don’t make enough cars and BL needed investment. This was the reason you saw the Marina go on till 1984 (as the Ital) and the Princess into the 80’s (as the Ambassador). Additionally if the cars had been assembled properly people may well have continued to buy British. They weren’t and after 1973 with EEC membership you could buy cars tariff free from the continent and this doesn’t even take into account the Japanese. If you around at the time and remembered the 70’s it was a grim time with strikes being very common. Management may not have been stella ,some of the BL cars not the greatest,but be under no illusion as to the damage people like Robson did to British industry.

[@kailashpatel1706]

@@mfletch3205 They did damage through taking kneejerk reactive actions but the core stargetic decisions were taken by a management that was ill equipped for the task...No evidence that piecework led to a very big improvement in wages or earnings overall for BL workers..No evidence shop floor control stopped BL introducing automation systems etc...

[@chiefrocka8604]

Scousers did a mint job there All them strikes and for what Kids that sit at home on benefits 😂

[@deswillis3490]

Harold Wilson made Triumph move to his constituency a stupid political decision.

[@matt8787fat]

Worker's are not too blame it was piss poor management and unloyal British buyer's buying foreign.

[@_Ben4810]

Workers were VERY much to blame...They sabotaged & vandalised TR7's going down the line resulting in so many defects & rectification requirements, & that was before they'd even been loaded onto the boat to go to America...

[@MattVF]

The British public had enough of poorly built,unreliable cars. They stuck with them till the prices of European and Japanese cars dropped post tariff abandonment and realised that it was not “normal” to have a shonkily built car.

[@TelexToTexel]

If there were a so-called "Merseyside disease", I just don't get how LiverpoolFC and Everton could win 13 (in total) First Division titles during the 70's and 80's ? Those two teams also won 8 European cups during that time, so they were not just dominant in England. Why do work have to be a four letter word :-( kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3PSnKyQZdyCo8U

[@hoodwinker7932]

Bit different from building cars tho, football

[@DolleHengst]

Every monday and friday training session, the players would be encouraged and praised in chant, by hundreds of fans who had called sick from work...

[@Cull-every-Tory]

A discontented, poorly motivated workforce is a primary issue for management to address and resolve. Poor product design and chaotic logistics and inadequate build quality demonstrates wholly inept management, both middle management whose responsibility it is to resolve and coordinate such issues, with senior management oblivious or nonchalant to the production chaos. American “Ford” achieved great and sustained success for decades in the UK with similar workers, indeed Ford’s highly efficient and productive Halewood plant was located on Merseyside too, so not an inherent local culture of failure, as some YT commentators have claimed. Working together, as a team with shared goals and sharing in the success makes the difference. The same culture and attitude that destroyed Britain’s own motor industry by failure, also delivered the failed Brexshit nonsense project too. Seems our problem is choosing leaders of substance, capable of understanding issues, leading, with ideas and an understanding that deliver industrial and commercial prosperity.

[@James-vw9os]

Another factor was a Tory government more concerned with their short term electoral gain, than the long term prosperity of what had been a world leader in automotive design and volume production - it lacked much needed investment in production and quality control. It was sold by the Tories to British Aerospace on the basis they had a significant fleet of company cars and potential fleet contacts around the globe - to grow sales. Notice the cash cow, highly profitable brands, the jewels in BL were all removed or sold off separately, Jaguar, LandRover or in the case of MINI, retained by BMW. If those profits had been reinvested, the outcome would have been substantially more positive. The sale to BMW was a second option, the ten year collaboration with Honda Motor was the basis for a first option for a Honda buyout, but the European BMW option was preferred over the Asian. Hindsight would no doubt see a different choice, I’m sure.