Bronica SQ-A vs Kiev 88 || a quick review + comparison

[@kenblair2538]

Great video, John. I purchased a Kiev 88, (Import model) by a retailer in 1990 . First issue was, the internal camera body, needed flocking . This greatly reduced flaring. In addition to the camera, I picked up several lenses and accessories . Early 2000, I put the camera away and moved to digital. Last year, as a result of the resurgence of film , I brought the Kiev 88 back out, and ran some film through it. Two rolls later, shutter jammed . Rather than buy another medium format camera, I sent the Kiev 88 to Araxphoto in the Ukraine. They did a complete upgrade, to all the internals . The camera will out last me. A few rolls later, another shutter jam . Not an issue with Araxphoto. The little lens locking pin, on the back of the camera, came loose and fell into the camera body. No way of getting that out. To all, that are reading this, check your lens locking pins. I unscrewed all pins on all lens , added a little Loctite to threads. SO, back to Araxphoto . Now with $500 invested , including shipping, I have a very serviceable camera. Yes, all lenses very sharp and produce great images. So, take care of those Kiev 88's, with all thats happening in Ukraine, you may not see a camera for a long time. And, there is no longer, any repair services in the USA . KB

[@kenblair2538]

@@johnstamw Thanks' John. I forgot to mention, use a good lens shade on the lenses. I use the Cokin adjustable lens hood, making it easy to add and remove , to customize to the focal length.

[@KoW4LsKy]

I have a Kiev 88. This camer ais like a toxic relationship. You know that you deserve better, you know that your friends have a better time with better cameras, but you still love it and are excited each time you press the shutter button (seriously, noise this huge mirror and shutter makes is addicting).

[@kirchbergphotography5754]

dude the shots are insane.

[@johnstamw]

man, thank you so much for saying so, i appreciate that.

[@ReimannPembroke]

Great comparison! I actually just picked up the Bronica S2A to use on my channel which is another great budget alternative to the hasselblad 500C/M

[@tplyons5459]

I have both an 88 and Bronica S2 and like both. The Kiev has some lenses like the ultra sharp 30mm you can't get with an S2. 80mm on a 6x6 camera (image size 58x58mm) is equal to 42mm lens on a 35mm

[@RogerMunoz-ci7it]

Great Video! I really enjoyed it a lot. I deeply appreciate the time you took to share your photos with us all, they were pretty good. Almost wish I would have gone along with you to be honest. I hope to see more. Thank you and God Bless. Roger

[@brineb58]

I have used various Soviet cameras sine the mid-90s, I love the Kiev 88 ... the crunchy sounds and feeling that you are tearing the gears as you advance is a bit odd, but the images are always cool!!!

[@longde]

You need the back serviced. You shouldn't hear any "gear tearing" noise, this is caused by an unserviced back (i'm a camera tech).

[@brineb58]

@@longde Who services them in the US now?

[@johnstamw]

My camera repairman, Mike with PhotoTronic (also Fix Old Cameras here on KZbin) might be willing/able!

[@oregonez1]

Kiev 88 began production in 1980 and almost all cameras were of excellent quality. The price of the camera was 1000 Soviet rubles, with a monthly salary of 100-120 rubles it was a very expensive camera. An example Zenit camera cost 100 rubles. The medium format was used only by professional photographers and it was practically inaccessible to amateurs due to expensive equipment. The only problem with the Kiev 88 was the spring in the back of the cassette, which often broke.

[@johnstamw]

that's some fun history to know!

[@savinggracechurch4112]

I had an S2a with a Zenzanon 100mm f2.4, and that was tack sharp to. I used it for the cover photo on the jacket for the book "The biggest issue. By IanRayner and Sue Smith, " it was shot wide open using a Gossen profisix meter in incident mode. You can still make out the footbridge in the distance, and I did this because of the story narrative. The image used for the book jacket and the subsequent advertising poster was put into a scanner with just a vertical crop and then the overlay type, added. I shot 10 rolls of Fuji astia 100 that day, bright overcast weather.

[@johnstamw]

this is some really cool info!

[@savinggracechurch4112]

@johnstamw thanks and something else I forgot to mention. The image that was used, even though tack sharp, shouldn't have been. It was like divine intervention. I remember quite a few years ago in the 90s Amateur photographer magazine did a really good write-up on these cameras from the s2 all the way up to the ec-tl. I found out that the photo that was used for the book cover shouldn't have come out that sharp. This was because the focusing screen was mounted with an organic foam. At the time these cameras, S2a didn't get a good write-up because, for some strange reason, the nikkor optics were mediocre. The foam had disintegrated, and the screen had dropped a couple of millimetres that caused the focus error. Amazing as I had discovered this on my camera. I bought some synthetic self-adhesive foam from an art shop and fixed it myself, and the camera was good again. Yeah, remember the day all too well when I went into the hire shop back in the 80s when I was an assistant photographer for a television broadcasting company. I saw an ec-tl for hire, but we had gone in to hire a specialist 38mm ultra wide angle Hasselblad for some in-house promotional images. I really miss those days! You just never know what's around the corner. Within two years, the studios closed down into receivership, and I lost everything and ended up begging and sleeping rough on the streets. Life's back to normal now, praise God!

[@thethirdman225]

7:00 I simply don’t understand this. How anyone could complain that an electronic shutter, requiring a battery, is ‘a bit of a bummer’ in this day and age is beyond me. Everything we use today needs a battery. In the case of the Bronica there is a truly simple answer to this: carry a spare and don’t sweat it. Secondly, tests have shown that the Bronica flash sync is more reliable than most so I will be taking the ‘bit of a bummer’ every time. I was a Bronica shooter (pro but not a wedding photographer) 40 years ago and I used one because I believed it was the best choice out there. Hasselblad offered me no useful advantages. Sure, the quality was great but where was the benefit? Even if the price had been the same, I’d still most likely have chosen the Bronica. It was simple no-nonsense camera that provided professionals with pretty much everything they needed in a medium format camera. Back then people cared a lot less about what brand you used, especially if you were shooting for clients. Furthermore, the Bronica is not a mere Hasselblad knock off, as so many people have said. It’s competent and efficient and personally, I couldn’t fault it, save for the loud clunk as the mirror goes up. The P series Zenzanons are every bit as good as any of the Hasselblad lenses and I know because I own some. Trust me: you’re not going to be searching for that undefinable lens quality that makes spending three times as much a worthwhile exercise when the biggest technical variation is probably different film stocks. That’s where the differences are. In other words, these cameras are far, far more about who is using them than some fairy dust about ultra-expensive lenses. I recently bought back into the Bronica SQ system and it was every bit as good as I remember it. I had owned an excellent RB67 but I never gelled with it, despite its unquestionable competence and quality. Moving away from digital occasionally has been great for my photography.

[@johnstamw]

You have a lot of thoughts here, I’ll just respond to your initial statement. It’s precisely because in this day and age where everything requires a battery that I thoroughly enjoy fully mechanical equipment. That’s all there is to it:)

[@thethirdman225]

@@johnstamw Hardly a bummer though. You don’t have to use the electronic meter prism or winder and viewed in that light, the electronic shutter is next to a non-issue. I honestly wouldn’t swap it for the Hasselblad mechanical cocking system. I can’t speak for the Kiev 88 but from memory, that is a focal plane shutter, so it’s more comparable with the Bronica S2.

[@johnstamw]

@@thethirdman225 personally speaking, it bummed me out a little bit, but you already knew that. "Next to a non-issue" for me is equivalent to a bit of a bummer. Not a full bummer, but also not a non-issue altogether you know? Somewhere maybe in-between those two, but closer to a non-issue? Perhaps I'll do some searching to find a better turn of phrase, maybe "a bit of a bummer", isn't quite as precise as it ought to be.

[@m-pbogner7980]

@@thethirdman225 I can only speak as an AE-1 owner, but I’d love to have a mechanical camera for long exposures and not burn 3 battery each roll.

[@thethirdman225]

@@m-pbogner7980 How many cameras burn through three batteries per roll?

[@adrianhlina401]

Absolutely fantastic review John

[@devkulkarniphoto]

Very informative video John. I just bought a Bronica Sq-a and am lucky to have stumbled upon your channel. Subscribed right away. All the photographs are gorgeous. Please make more videos about Bronica Sq-a :)

[@johnstamw]

Thank you Dev!! It's a wonderful camera!! thanks a lot. I sadly had to part with mine so I won't have it for more videos.

[@tjrosemond3232]

glad to see you back on youtube! excited to try out my new camera! what light meter app do you use? Thanks again for everything man

[@tjrosemond3232]

Nevermind just saw the last part of the video LOL

[@gaarakabuto1]

The comparisons comes down to, Japanese is an amazing camera with almost head to head with Hasselblad,focusing more on being technical and adding seemingly useful features and the soviet is simply quirky but somehow an amazing experience and result when these cameras happen to work. For anyone it would seem like i suggest Bronica,not exactly. Once you use kiev cameras somehow they grow to you.Bronica is weapon to get the job done though.

[@gaarakabuto1]

@@johnstamw If you do studio work or tripod work I'd say keep the 88 or sell it for an arax counterpart.The P6 lenses offer a better variety than Bronica,actually a better variety on fast lenses. I'd suggest to get yourself a Kiev 4 you can get them for dirt cheap and they are amazing when you get photographic fatigue,a rangefinder with a 50mm and no framelines on the viewfinder is the best way to deal with that fatigue. Have fun shooting.

[@longde]

I have the Bronica ETRSi (similar to the SQAi) and the Kiev-88 (actually a Salyut-C). The Kiev feels more able to be taken out to the streets without suffering any kind of damage, due to the rugged exterior. The bronica is a superior machine overall, but the Kiev's ruggedness is an important asset.

[@noneofyourbusines9976]

I really think the people who end up with these two systems aren't going for the 'Hasselblad' look alike. They want the best interchangable lens 6x6 camera system for the least money! It's the fact they're both cheaper than everything else that they have in common. The 3rd contender would be the Mamiya TLRs. However,if you're going to recommend Kiev's then at least make the Kiev 60 rather than the Kiev 88 and/or the Kiev 88CM which were the last built and seem a little better. Frankly,the Kiev's aren't really in the same league built wise as the Bronica or Mamiya,the the images are just as good.

[@rossmansell5877]

Quite.....I was surprised at the sharpness of the Russian 6x 6 Zenith 80 slide images,,...

[@miller1520]

Thnx! I like your compositions too.

[@thekellyartist3083]

I'm deciding between the Kiev 88 and the Rolleiflex SL66. Kiev is cheaper, but I heard that it is relatively defective. The Rollie does not have a viewfinder with an exposure meter. Well, I do not know.

[@johnstamw]

That’s a very tough choice.

[@bikeandsee1647]

There is a widespread misunderstanding about the long turn around focusing ring. It is a blessing, not a curse. The real curse is whenever you want to focus a subject 7 meters distant and the possible turn of the ring is meager. And when you focus a 5, 7, or 10 meters subject you do not start from 60cm but from infinity, a very small turn.

[@Kref3]

I owned a Bronica SQ-Ai about 10-12 years ago with a few lenses. It was a really nice machine, BUT it had issues. Sometimes the 80 mm lens did not work properly. One of the three film backs broke down and ultimately it were some electronic issues. At the same time a Nikon F3, a camera everybody calls built like a tank and to last forever, died due to electronic failure and could not be fixed (or at least not for a price exceeding the value of the camera by far). I decided that I do not want electronic cameras anymore. And right at that time I found an offer for a Hasselblad 501 CM with a complete set of CB lenses (60, 80, 160 mm), two film backs and quite a lot of additional stuff for only 1500 EUR. The man who sold it lived about one hour drive away and he decided to come to my house. he wanted to see my darkroom and my other cameras. because he loved his camera set, which he had bought for around 20,000 German Marks 15 years earlier. he did not want to split it and sell it for best price but he wanted to ensure, that it will go to a person who will appreciate and use it. I sold my Bronica stuff over the next weeks and I am quite happy with the exchange to this day. It is btw considerably smaller than the SQ-Ai. Would I pay todays money for a HB with three lenses if I already had a Bronica and the lenses I needed? Probably not. But it was a great purchase at the time and I really do not want to go back.

[@ryszard7776]

I had Kiev 88, I have Bronica SQ it is PERFECT CAMER.

[@ryszard7776]

@@johnstamw Kiev 88 is a very emergency camera. He can fail when he needed.

[@shotbydmitry]

It is exactly like swiss watches, japan watches and fake watch. I’ve tried both of these and now own Hasselblad 501cm. Results might seems similar at first glance, but the process of shooting three cameras is different for each.

[@svenquist2617]

One major thing tho, the kiev 88 is made under hadselblad patent. Hasselblad literally give Araxphoto permission to make the kiev.

[@svenquist2617]

Hasselblad patent*

[@killa-kitty]

Hello, I'd like to know how to take out the film from the magazine. I've just finished the first roll of a film(number 12 to blank on counter and after that I did two more reloads.) on Kiev. When I open ASA wheel back of the magazine, I can see the paper of the film, so I tried to wind the lever on right side of the magazine, it also doesn't move. Can I open the magazine and take out the film by my hands?

[@johnstamw]

You will take out the film by hand, yes. Unloading the film is scary, but as long as you loaded it correctly and finished and spun the roll to the end you should be okay to remove.

[@johnstamw]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2WlZ5loppqIm6c

[@analogbebop]

Welcome back! Thanks for the cameo!

[@kevin-parratt-artist]

You say that the SQA needing a battery is a problem? ..... and yet you use your cell phone to meter with? 🤣

[@steven.torres]

Great video, what’s your next medium format 👀

[@lexiehaslem1809]

What film did you use? I love the tones. Does it come out like this or did you do post processing for the tones? Also what did you shoot the b-roll video with? AMAZING. Love the grain.

[@lexiehaslem1809]

Awesome! I’m going to check out your LUTS! Love them. I don’t see a vintage 8mm or anything like that? Is it a filter or a overlay or something that gives it the 8mm look?

[@killa-kitty]

thank you for the review. the results of kiev 88 and bronica have much differences? in this video, I feel kiev 88 has much more grain on the prints so I'd like to know if this difference was made from the scanning to digital

[@johnstamw]

any image difference you see is likely from my scanning. yes. however i would say the bronica lenses are generally a bit sharper! not that the kiev lenses are soft.

[@killa-kitty]

@@johnstamw Appreciate you for the reply. I ordered a zenith80, which is an exported model of kiev 88. This will be the first experience of my using medium format!!

[@cheteu7968]

Great pictures

[@johnstamw]

thank you!

[@thomasdezelus5465]

Very interesting comparison. For budget reasons, I'm considering buying a Kiev 88. What 50mm lense did you buy for yours?

[@thomasdezelus5465]

@@johnstamw thanks a lot!

[@KoW4LsKy]

I see your photos from kiev are a bit tilted. i have the same issue. Have you found a solution?

[@KoW4LsKy]

@@johnstamw 2:21

[@shademanirvanipour6870]

Interesting video recordings

[@johnstamw]

thanks!

[@sgroadie6367]

Are the Kiev lenses and components interchangeable with Hasselblad?

[@milesian1]

No. Just the viewfinders are interchangeable. The Kievs use film plane shutters while the Hasselblads use leaf shutters in the lenses.

[@lazarusmoment4682]

what were the negatives scanned with??

[@johnstamw]

I have a video about my scanning workflow!

[@robiulahmed]

I used to think that batteries were a disadvantage, but they are much more consistent with shutter speeds and require less servicing, if at all.

[@sarahsayre2394]

Great video!! I own a hasselblad 500c and a bronica SQ-A. I have contemplated a Kiev just because I like quirky Russian cameras and 6x6 is my fav. I heard they are hard to find someone to fix them, which is a big downside. Definitely think the camera has its merits though. The Bronica is by far one of my favorite medium format cameras and I also love getting that 13th frame! Recently bought a second SQ-A incase mine ever breaks, that’s how much I love and use it.

[@sarahsayre2394]

@@johnstamw lol curious how those two kievs compare.. I’ll have to find you on IG to see your work with the Kiev 60

[@jean-paul7251]

The bronica is far from a budget camera! I'm surprised you even think that! Stop comparing everything to hasselblad.....some camera are just as good if not better. Would you buy a Louis vitton camera that takes 110 film?

[@johnstamw]

Greetings Jean Paul, I hope you are well today. Here’s my concise response: 1. These 3 cameras are _very_ similar: Kiev 88, Bronica SQ, & Hassy 500. That’s why they are often compared in many contexts across a variety of online spaces. 2. Comparative to many other medium format options the Bronica SQ cameras are affordable. Despite any one person’s budget prices are relativized within a given industry and in the film camera industry, specifically the medium format niche, specifically related to 6x6 cameras, specifically related to WLF magazine box style cameras, the Bronica options are relatively affordable. 3. In this fictional scenario… if Louis Vuitton* happened to be based in a country renowned for their engineering prowess, especially during an era of particular focus on high quality manufacturing, and had proven over the course of their history that they were dedicated to incredibly well made cameras and lenses then, in that scenario, I would probably still not buy the camera because 110 film is silly and impractical. But if they made a historically significant 6x6 camera? Then I would say it’s probably the best available and I’d say someone should take it to the moon and if I could afford it then I would consider buying it.

[@johnstamw]

Okay, in the spirit of playfulness, I found this and had a laugh, hopefully you do too: luxurylaunches.com/gadgets/perfect-for-a-fashionista-the-louis-vuitton-edition-nikon-z7-camera.php

[@JohnAvantiBK]

Hasselblad knock-offs? The Bronica system is nothing like Hasselblad. All they have in common is 6x6 formats. Kiev is more like a Hasselblad. Hasselblad was not as reliable as Bronica was.

[@johnstamw]

Hey John, if you rewatch the 1:10 part it might help, I use the term “knock-off” with air quotes to describe two cameras that are functionally and visually very similar to the much more expensive hasselblad 500.

[@JohnAvantiBK]

@@johnstamw ok 👍

[@steven.torres]

I want to see your scanning and coloring process please 🙋🏻‍♂️

[@gunnwilliams]

Cottonwood Falls Kansas

[@constastar1660]

58E59

[@antoniogarcia7431]

A Kiev 6x6,nao é russa ,é Ucrânia

[@johnstamw]

ah, not sure where I said that, but if I did, my mistake!

[@cecilsharps]

I shot commie medium format stuff for 10 years. it wasn't worth the trouble. I have an etr and gs1 and a few cheap tlrs. Anything is better than a Kiev. Kievs will leave you disappointed and heartbroken. they never work quite right and they never work for long. to make any kiev work not quite right requires an almost insane ritural. Loading the k60 is one, fixing the light traps in a k88 back is another. On one k88 sample i had I think making the pc-synch terminal work required a rain dance. I got some great shots with commie cameras but anything is better than a kiev.

[@johnstamw]

They have their issues that is for certain haha. I've loved the images I've made but not without hassle. For folks who may not be able to afford more they can get you along for a bit. If you start on a Kiev too it makes all other cameras feel premium haha!

[@cecilsharps]

@@johnstamw I adapted the glass for awhile to mamiya 645. The problem is people are going to shell out more for a kiev than they would for a decent tlr. they want around 400 or more for kievs on the ebay. you can get a cla'd tlr for around that or less and not have to worry about the film advance, frame spacing, light leaks, shutter banding, or 1/3oth a second flash synch speed. They worth putting up with the idiosyncrasies at 250-310 bucks, so many better choices for newbs at that 400 clam price point.

[@HarveyWallbanger-ho2cq]

Beauty vs. Junk

[@johnstamw]

haha

[@serdgiusya639]

если ты криворукий, тебе никакая Броника, Мамия и т.д. не поможет!!! Киев 88 отличная камера!!!

[@johnstamw]

Agreed, Киев 88 отличная камера!!!

[@abdelkadernazef6999]

What do you mean by finicky. You've been using this word all along your video. Could you put your problem in real word, instead of being so vague. Also give us time to see your pictures.

[@johnstamw]

Hello Abdelkader, here’s a useful definition from vocabulary.com - “Finicky can also be used to describe something that demands a great deal of care and attention to detail - a finicky lock might require that you jiggle the key just so. Finicky generally conveys the sense that the person or thing it describes is quirky and pointlessly precise.” Finicky is a real word that really describes my real experience using the Kiev 88, nothing vague about that! As for needing more time to see photos I recommend using the pause button. I do hope this helps!

[@denisbabary]

Arrrggghhh! Please, please!!!! How come most of videos like yours on KZbin have the same set up??? You talk 10 minutes to explain this and that about the photo you are going to shoot and then show us the picture for less than 2 seconds???????? It's absolutely ridiculous....we don't even have time to see any details.....it looks like all the photographers are afraid of showing us those details that would interest us so much, to evaluate the camera you are showing, so what's the point ?

[@kevin-parratt-artist]

The Kiev are built on the design that Hasselblad discontinued, and discontinued for good reason. Kiev is modelled on flawed foundations. It's junk. The Bronica of the SQa era are their own design, well made and reliable. I have used Hasselblad for decades. Excellent. Prior to Hasselblad I had an S2A Bronica which was tinny. Not good. Cheap, constructed from pressed metal. Bronica dumped the S2/S2A, and rebuilt from scratch to create the SQ models and ETRS models. They are related to the early models in name only.