My New FL5 Honda Civic Type-R Gets A Handling Upgrade!

[@MTGBros]

REALLY great install DIY video. everything was so clear and high definition.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Glad you liked it!

[@toast-1984]

Great install video!!! Keep them coming on the FL5!

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Thanks! Fun car to work on!

[@boolji]

You made the fronts look really easy!! I don't know why people are removing the axle nuts or having issues with their axles slipping out

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

I think they don't understand the best angle to get the strut out of the knuckle. Took me a long time to get it, but hopefully I showed the process well so people don't have to fight it!

[@ZWortek]

Curious to see how your alignment comes out in terms of toe, I've seen some posts on the forums showing in and out of spec with the available adjustment.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

I talk about alignment in my full review of this setup. It was already pretty off when I bought the car. So it for sure needed it! But we got it dialed in perfectly

[@Fedgery007]

I have never heard of a pass through socket or pass through socket wrench before!

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

They are one of the coolest tools! I've had my kit for probably 10 years and they come in handy!

[@bigbunnyboi]

Great to see that you’re already a Honda fan! Now buy that new GR Corolla. 😉

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

haha it's a fun car! I did really enjoy the GR Corolla. So maybe one day that could be fun to test out

[@francysantos1916]

Hmmm. I’m wondering if I should’ve got H&R lowering springs over my Eibach Pro lowering springs although the Eibach are super good and perfect height

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Not too sure how they stack up. But we love the H&R products on our cars. Always give it the perfect drop and ride. If you ever want a set just let us know! We ship H&R products very quick!

[@NellysaintsSROP]

Question about the tophat nut install. Did you use a pass-through socket to tighten it or did you tighten it while the springs are compressed?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Yeah use the pass through socket to let you loosen it before removing the strut from the car. Then take it off all the way once the spring compressors are on. Once you rebuild the strut you can tighten the nut again and then finish tightening it once the strut is reinstalled in the car

[@Night237]

so just to understand, you are jacking the car from the actual jackpoint on the car correct? how did you get under there through the front? just a low profile jack?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

I drove up on my wood ramp I made. And there is a steel beam surrounded by a circle cutout in the plastic under trays under the engine. My low profile jack is pretty long and easily makes it there. Rear you pop off the plastic fin to the left of the exhaust tips and thats the rear point.

[@Night237]

thank you i have been trying to figure this out, ultimately i need to drive up onto some leverage

[@gipsyavenger9829]

Did you have to trim the bump stops as it looks like that is a very conservative drop ?

[@davidd7175]

H&R instructions does not state to do so, tho other spring manufacturers do. It’s one reason I’m considering them.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Nope! Rides perfect and I haven't seen any signs of bottoming out at all. Great kit for these cars for sure and is 100% reversible if you go back to stock

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Great parts! These ship quick from our website!

[@gipsyavenger9829]

@@BrosFOURRSpeed - Any clunks ?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

@@gipsyavenger9829 nope! I think the rubber silencers around the springs keep them perfectly quite unlike some brands. So I’ve been happy with the ride quality

[@amill1563]

Another youtuber had 20mm front and 25mm back for spacers but it poked out too much for me.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Yeah that'd be a tad aggressive I think. The 15mm front and 20mm in back seems perfect to me

[@hy2473]

removing the axle nut up front will make it go even faster 👍

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

What a great idea! I'll be sure to remove both axle then ;) Can you make a video first so I can follow along?

[@hy2473]

@ kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHSwXoxtmNVka6Msi=NDINm2KdbJZde-uv 6:47 mark.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Not bad, but I did get the passenger side out in about 5 mins with just angling it at the right spot. So to be honest, that's unnecessary to remove the axle nuts.

[@lannym]

@@BrosFOURRSpeed The idea behind removing the axle nut is so that you don't tear the CV boot or pull the axle out of the transmission while you're standing on top of the rotor....plus it allows for the hub to pivot down a little easier which helps in getting the strut out.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

@@lannym honestly they didn’t really get stretched much. The boots were not even all the way stretched out. So just depends on how you angle the rotor. I twisted them towards the rear of the car more than outside the fender. So you really don’t need to take the nuts out if you do it carefully and correctly

[@amill1563]

How much to "rent a foot?"

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

haha perks of being married I guess

[@robbann8160]

Car looks great, but those mud flaps are terrible in my opinion. Unless you’re going to take it off-road on some dirt rock roads, then yes but I doubt that’s what you’re going to do. And they also cause a big drag at highway speeds. There are way nicer options for rock guards for these cars.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

These were on the car when I bought it. However they will stop rocks from hitting the paint. I don't even notice them to be honest. But I can always change it up

[@Superdimensional]

This car will be gone after a year 😂

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

We’ll see. But I’m having a lot of fun owning it. Just depends on what my needs are for vehicles.

[@Superdimensional]

@@BrosFOURRSpeed I have an Integra type S, I picked it up as a “daily” have a bunch of mods needing to go on, already tuned and all the OEM carbon etc. also a 2020 GTR (FBO/E85) and a TLX S (FBO-Tuned) so I get why you picked this, fun car and very different handling characteristics to the cars you’ve had/have now.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Oh sweet! Great duo for sure!

[@BitcoinTo150K]

For sure he's content creator let's do a few quick reversible mods and call it a build. Then onto the the next hype car in 2025. Endless cycle of debt moving from one car to the next for all eternity

[@GSek11]

I have no play in my front struts at all to release them? I’m not sure why

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Did you use a spindle spreader tool like what I showed? So liquid penetrating oil helps too as you wiggle it

[@GSek11]

@@BrosFOURRSpeed I did use a spindle spreader tool and liquid penetrating oil. Maybe its because my car only has 500 miles on it, but i had to push really hard to get a couple mm of play. Took me about 4 hours of wrestling to finally get them out 😂😂

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

@@GSek11 took me 4 hours to get the first one out. Then 20 mins on the second. There’s like a sweet spot angle and it comes right out. Helps to have someone stand on the spindle as you wiggle it

[@GSek11]

@@BrosFOURRSpeed yeah second front strut was a lot easier, I learned once you push in the hub, it straightens out the knuckle and the shock. So pushing in and prying down at the same time made it go by so much faster

[@davidd7175]

For anyone interested im these springs, TireRack has these on sale for less than $300 shipped. Curious, any reason went with H&R and not Spoon or Eibach? I’m torn between these and Spoon, given the sale price and someone selling Spoons for not much more.

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

We've always used H&R on our cars, the quality is top notch and I never seem to have issues with quality. And they drop the car the perfect amount.

[@carminered]

exhaust next

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Coming soon!

[@carminered]

@ yesssssss

[@diamondsinthedirt489]

❤

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Thanks for checking out the video!

[@kobi2002]

Are you going to jailbreak the ecu and do hondata?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

We'll see! This car doesn't seem to crave more power. Very well balanced the way it is

[@kobi2002]

@ trust me. You’ll love the car even more. Research pherable.

[@nadow1899]

This car looks amazing. Could you make a video showing how it handles in rainy and snowy conditions with winter tires when you get a chance

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

We hardly ever get snow. So that won't happen. So far I haven't driven it in the rain, but I'd assume being front wheel drive it would be pretty good overall

[@BitcoinTo150K]

​@@BrosFOURRSpeed quick fwd is awful in wet try make a pull 😂 you'll get wheel hop and so much spinning until 40 mph

[@nfspeedy2]

Bro the ride height is measured from the center of the wheel not from the ground

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Much easier to measure off the flat ground surface. Plus it won't make a difference. The measurement is consistent to sho the drop in ride height

[@kevz34]

More low

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Yeah looks great now!

[@ilovetodrift7557]

Cut that bumps stops front and rear you will thank me later

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

I don't notice anything bottoming out tho

[@ilovetodrift7557]

I noticed it more on comfort but I have a de5 so maybe different?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Yeah could be slightly different

[@VinRZ]

"Handling upgrade". Factory roll center, factory designed jacking force, factory designed bumpsteer curve left the chat lol. KZbinrs always think they can do better than factory engineers without doing any analysis. LOL

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

Here's the thing you don't realize. Honda is a massive car company and has to make everything to build a car. They don't specialize in one single vehicle component. Also they need their car to comply with certain regulations and have a certain ride height, comfort level and things like that. H&R and other aftermarket brands only specialize in the one component they make. So H&R takes a Type-R and finds every little way they can improve the handling of the Type-R by making a better spring to lower the ride height and increase it's cornering ability. Honda has a team that turns the normal Civic into a Type-R and certainly makes a capable car. But the aftermarket will fine tune all the details to go above and beyond. You see that all the time when modified cars outperform stock ones. It's because the aftermarket companies spend more time developing one small performance part to out perform a stock part. Manufactures can't spend the time and money on every single part to make it as good as possible. When they do, they make factory race cars which cost about 4X the price. So that's why parts like this exist.

[@VinRZ]

​​​@@BrosFOURRSpeed ​you said a whole lot of stuff. But none of them makes sense. 1. FL5 was an improvement on FK8, do you really think that Honda didn't have enough time to improve their Halo car? A company that supplies F1 engines doesn't have R&D time to improve their Halo car is wild to me. No their Halo car isn't the NSX anymore, they discontinued it. 2. "Lowering a car" does not necessarily mean that it's giving you better handling. Lowering a Mac car more than half an inch usual means lowering the Roll Center more than an inche. You technically created more chassis roll by increasing the distance between COG and RC. The only reason that you don't "feel" the car rolling more is probably because you're running out of compression travel. That's never a good thing, because your outside tires can experience close to infinite elastic stiffness aka taking grip away. 3. If H&R didn't shock dyno FL5's dampers, I will not trust it. (Well it's not like you can anyway, since the stock dampers are electronically adjusted). Which it tells me that they have no idea what's the critically damped ratio of comp and rebound from their lowering springs. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO SELL A PRODUCT. They are selling you lowering springs, because they know people like you will buy it. 4. You still haven't answer my questions on whether you've figured out the factory Roll center and factory jacking force. Let's be honest, you're doing lowering springs for the esthetics, and that's okay. Just don't call it "upgrade". Messed up suspension geometries, reduced bump travel are never an upgrade in my opinion. Hey, at least I didn't give you any blanket statements :)

[@VinRZ]

​also stop the copium on "they have to comply a certain ride height". They are selling Integra Type S HRC next year. That car has all the Honda goodies. Oh it's also lowered. So yeah your statement on compliance is wild sir. They aint gotta comply to anything if they want to make a full fledge race car. Problem is, do you want to buy a borderline race car for street application?

[@BrosFOURRSpeed]

@@VinRZ If the TypeR was so perfect then why would they improve it with an Integra HRC? I bet the current aftermarket springs like these H&R springs are on par with the HRC. So clearly Honda didn’t do the best on every component. Otherwise there wouldn’t be an improved version. The aftermarket takes already fantastic performance cars and makes them better. I don’t have all the engineering specs. But judging by when tuning companies and race teams take factory cars and modify them. Clearly aftermarket mods improve the cars performance in some way

[@VinRZ]

​@BrosFOURRSpeed couple of things right? 1. It's not that they can't do it. It's matter fact does anyone want to buy an over priced Civic that will probably push for 6 figures when Dealerships got their dirty hands on it. 2. Yes honda can technically lower the car, change up the top mounts as an compensation of reduced comp travel. Give the knuckles an offset ball joints, give the tie rod ends offset ball joints. All that they can technically achieve to balance out the car. But thinner top hats, higher leveraged balljoints are highly stressed items, so in order to provide a warranty to the customers. They probably have to source out some more durable parts. Higher quality parts = higher price tag. Also the streetablity of the car is lowered... so again do you want to pay closed to 6 figures civic for an uncomfortable street experience? 3. I have a 22' BRZ modified for both street and track. I would keep the stock dampers if they can take the 200tw abuse none stop for a whole weekend, so I don't have to correct all these suspension geos back to stock. However that's not the case. AND I'm fully prepared to swap out all these highly stressed joints every few years. Are you ready for that? PS: They did all these with a data base of suspension components and geos, and they are doing this to chase the last tenth from the chassis. Are you chasing that last tenth? 4. Due to my experience on modifying my car, I've came to the conclusion that if you want performance you have to give up street comfort. Factory engineers are trying to strike that perfect balance (for better or for worse), us backyard engineers have to really educate ourselves before we've gone and modify our cars.