Buckeye Steam Whistle Repair - TIG Brazing Red Brass

[@tomjewett5839]

I'm not a betting man but I would almost put money that the spring that you took off is what actually caused the problem to begin with. And the reason they put it on there was because of the rattling sound that the handle probably caused. The spring was a fix that caused a problem. What's probably needed is maybe a fiber washer or something in there to keep the handle from moving so freely that it will rattle.

[@lencost1]

The spring @ 19:38

[@georgepitchley3946]

That’s what I thought as it initially didn’t work.

[@rrsteamer]

The spring is to be applied to the steam side of the valve. Meaning, to hold the valve closed when the pressure is low. The spring on the on the lever side probably did cause the lever pivot to break off. Many times the valve stem and that portion of the valve body that guides the valve stem wear and either have to have the body bushed or valve replaced. As for the tig brazing job, nicely done. But beware, brazing or welding cast bronze pressure vessels (I.E.: valve bodies to correct wear or freeze cracks) should not be done. As it changes the bronze chemistry of the base metal. And this can affect the pressure retaining capabilities of the part. Others may have updated procedures for this type work on pressure vessels. Lots of this type work has been done in the past, some repairs work, some don’t. I only bring this up for safety reasons. Suggest not using high speed to grind in small valve seats as it is too easy to get a ‘cut’ seat. Always enjoy your work Keith! This work will keep your mental juices flowing!

[@nigeleaton5715]

For one terrible moment I thought you were going to leave us hanging without blowing it! I should have more faith after all these years. Brilliant job Keith, another one rescued.

[@Bodi2000]

Oh no. From the first explanation of the issue I knew "errel" Keith was going to make it sing!

[@charleswelch249]

I love it when you help people with items like this. It looks like your repair job should be fine. I love the sound of a steam train whistle.

[@ShedBuiltStuff]

Really like these small repair vids. Thumbs up from here in Oz.

[@massimilianonatali514]

Congratulations for your professionalism and passion. In my opinion the external spring serves to eliminate lever play and avoid vibrations.

[@bobengelhardt856]

Check out "locking" adjustable wrenches. Work much better on those rounded heads & nuts.

[@nathanielspoelman9881]

Or even an adjustable hex pipe wrench would get a better grip than a crescent

[@DavidSellars-b8l]

Craftsman tools are nowhere as high quality as the once were, but I still happily use them. And yes, I miss walking into Sears and the tool department. During college over a half century back, I kept all my receipts one year. Over $600 bucks. Craftsman just have always fit my hands.

[@Garth2011]

In Orlando, Florida, there is still a Sears store open and has the usual Craftsman tool section !

[@ronkluwe4875]

Keith - reason for the better sound with steam is there is greater mass flow with the steam than there is with air. Steam whistles typically use wet steam (i.e., low pressure steam) and this means there is a significant amount of water vapor in the steam. Great job on the repair.

[@robertqueberg4612]

I have had some experience with quite a number of steam whistles, from 2”-6”, single chime to five chime, on stationary and traction engines. When you are blowing a whistle that is sitting on a boiler with 150 psi, and up, there is not much in the way of “wet steam”. More likely any perceived difference in sound or tone, is due to the fact that many of these whistles were plumbed with a nipple directly into a boiler with an endless supply of steam over a still larger supply of super heated water that is ready to become steam instantly. Where as an air compressor connection may start at the whistle with a 1 1/2”nipple, that is throttled down to a 3/4npt or 1 npt connection on a compressor of limited volume, which creates a reduction of the velocity of the gas passing through the bell of the whistle. The difference of gas velocity would likely be the cause of any tone change.

[@MrChevelle83]

@@robertqueberg4612 exactly right!! short answer is its all about CFM! a big steam boiler has WAY more cfm than any typical shop compressor so the whistles are calibrated for that cfm. which is kinda obvious due to the 3/4 or 1 inch inlet pipe on this particular unit.

[@CameronMcCreary]

Good morning Keith. You did a very fine job welding the red brass fitting. I know it is a tricky job as l have seen this done before. Thank you for showing us this repair. The whistle makes a nice mellow sound.

[@byronwatkins2565]

Humidity changes the speed of sound in air and shifts the resonance frequencies of the chambers. I imagine that the outside spring is responsible for the original break. Once the shaft mushroomed, it was too short making more force necessary to open the valve against the fully-compressed spring. I might have drilled and tapped the shaft to install a stud and restore the shaft's length.

[@TheLinkminer]

Good morning Keith. Just want to say thank you for the many videos. Now I’ll sit back and also enjoy this one with a hot cup of coffee. 😊

[@glencrandall7051]

I also wondered if silver solder would have been a possible repair method. But then again you cannot argue with success. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂

[@ellieprice363]

I think it would have worked but more expensive, a different color and possibly not as strong. I loved that toot toot at the end.

[@russkepler]

I build model locomotives and use a lot of silver solder (really a bad name as it's a braze) and a properly made joint takes a lot of stress. A good silver braze takes 70k psi, strength similar to brass or bronze. Nice thing with it is that it melts well below brass or bronze melting point and flows well, so you can braze mated parts with .005" gap.

[@curtzimmerman8766]

I was wondering the same thing, since it was such a clean, fresh break. I repaired a bronze cleat for an antique boat once, and like this one, TIG welding with a silicon bronze rod worked perfectly. I love seeing a successful repair on antique parts!

[@lwilton]

@@ellieprice363 When I was in metal shop half a century ago, the instructor ground the ends of two 1/2" bolts flat and silver soldered them together. Then he clamped one head in a vise and gronked on the other with a big wrench. As he told us to expect, one of the bolts sheared, leaving the solder joint intact. In most cases a silver solder joint is stronger than the parent metal.

[@grahammorgan9635]

soft jaws would have protected that lovely old fitting, come on Keith.

[@bruceferrero8178]

Great repair! I think you found the reason it was broken, that extra spring blocking the valve...

[@natekelly4667]

I left a note in the box. That was the original spring that was in the whistle. I just stuck it on there so Keith could make sure I replaced it with an abdicate spring. It was never there during operation. I now wish I’d just left it in the box loose. lol.

[@barryolson3998]

Looks like another successful repair. Well done.

[@garybrenner6236]

I wonder when we will see a repair of the Stoker Engine?

[@jimfiles3307]

Excellent work Keith. The luck gods were with you today and the whistle didn’t melt away. I would suggest a set of metric wrenches, as that nut could be a 18 mm.

[@mikewatson4644]

Or the metric wrench would have fit a worn nut. Had to settle for using a metric adjustable wrench

[@stevemahrer7097]

Left or right hand metric? The details are important! 😜

[@robjchristopher]

Great job - I was hoping you would try it out and you didn't disappoint. Love the cheeky toots at the end!

[@Xtx-dv7ll]

great project Keith - you should have a working train whistle in your shop and toot it when you start and stop a video. it would be unique to KZbin. and don't forget the flashing red signal lights when the episode is over!!!!!!

[@TheDanielsherer]

To be honest, I was sort of expecting you to either put that brass nut in your mill and re-square (or should I say, re-hex) the edges. That, or make an entirely new nut from a piece of vintage brass that you just happened to have on-hand. (lol) Great work!

[@chrisarmstrong8198]

Me too. I thought he would trim it so that a standard 11/16" spanner fits it.

[@Rog_Ramjet]

As we were taught "grind back to sound weld metal before welding from second side" makes for a good job well done.

[@peterhobson3262]

I was taught exactly the same thing.

[@surfcitygenecarrothersabec7634]

Thanks for another great repair video!! I was hoping you might have added a bit about your TIG settings since I have a small repair job that I'm hoping I can be as lucky as you. You did tell us the rod you finally chose. Wonderful job and sound!!

[@frankdoner8402]

I agree, work holding is always an issue. I wouldn't have thought of your solution but I will not forget the possibilities in the future. Thank you Keith, great work 😊

[@gilesfone]

I really enjoy watching you put all that accumulated skill and experience to work on these repairs. Hearing the toot of success was great, I was sure it was coming. Thanks for the video 👍

[@mhansl]

‘The toot of success’ is my new catch phrase.

[@Rovinman]

Love that whistle sound ! I think you liked it also ! ! A Really Sound repair ! Stu xx

[@mhansl]

A sound repair. Lol

[@bruceanderson9461]

Nice job of coming up with a jig to hold the pieces. Silver soldering would be a far safer option in repairing this in my opinion.

[@russcole5685]

Was thinking silver solder myself, thought to read comments first. 👍

[@WilliamWinsor]

I repair airless spray machines and i use diamond lapping compound to lap carbide seats and hardened balls to save expense. Nobody else bothers but i always do on every sprayer .

[@richardsurber8226]

Thank You for a great repair! I know this is not my piece of equipment but in a way because it is an old casting repair you just gave many people a little joy to hear this whistle. Assuming it will be in some public application. Great video too Keith

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

The spring bottoming was probably the reason why the lug broke!

[@MrChevelle83]

likely so! the operator was probably yanking on the valve to open the valve and it was being held back by that spring that was never intended to be there!! the fact he tested with air and saw the problem made it way obvious.

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

@@MrChevelle83 Yep!

[@sd4594]

My traction engine came with a 4" Buckeye. I like the melow sound of the muli chime whistles.

[@buckburton7318]

Good Job,, it's great to rescue those old items and preserve a bit of history.

[@donhuebert9151]

something perhaps a little silly...one of the things I like about your videos are all the Craftsman tools. I have a whole tool box full of Craftsman but in Kanada we don't have access to good American made Craftsman any more. Everyone makes good tools these days but I miss walking into a Sears store with a tool I broke because I was abusing it and getting a new one no questions asked. Anyways, big fan of your work Keith.

[@Gogsnik]

The sound of that whistle shouldn't make me feel as happy as it has!! Thanks Keith, another great video. Wouldn't mind if every video got signed off with a toot on a steam whistle :D

[@cameronskinner6197]

Hi Keith, interesting video, but I wanted to thank you for uploading all those manuals for Boice-Crane bandsaws over at Vintage Machinery. I picked up a BC saw for $65 without the manual (surprisingly) and didn't quite understand the gearbox. Awesome saw, built for high speed (wood) and low speed (metal work). Your manuals helped a pile!! Much appreciated

[@grahammorgan9635]

In the early days of steam locomotives travelling NZ rails some whistles had up to four notes the combination of which helped identify the particular loco that was approaching the station, very clever.

[@tedmiles2110]

I had the same thought about blowing the whistle with compressed air! Thank you for the project! TM long time viewer

[@idiotdrummer60]

Interesting video as usual. Nice to hear someone from the US use the British pronunciation of 'lever' for a change!

[@JASPACB750RR]

There was a bridge that failed because the repairs done to it were too strong for the original construction. Can’t recall its name as it was 20 years ago when I learned about it. But it does happen. It didn’t alllow the proper movement and it cause a lot of its steel to buckle and it collapsed.

[@tpobrienjr]

Keith, you're a magician with metal! Woowoo!

[@odiesclips7621]

Very nice work, Keith!❤❤❤

[@jeffreeder8184]

Great video and great job fixing the whistle. Thank you also for taking the time to hook the air up to it so we could hear it blow. Great treat!

[@Ervan-l9v]

Reading the other comments we are in agreement the outside spring was likely the cause for the breakage.

[@mhansl]

Was going to suggest that.

[@WD4NYT99]

That little spring is probably there to keep the arm from wearing out from vibration. It’s probably a replacement and not the correct size.

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! thanks for the videos.

[@hornorama]

As an Englishman, I find the sound of that whistle is just beautiful! Our train 'whistles' and horns are so aggressive.

[@mhansl]

As an American, I love European whistles. Just different, in my opinion.

[@hornorama]

@@mhansl Agreed. I guess the grass is always greener :)

[@MukYJ]

I have that same Buckeye 3 chime. It’s got that real classic sound to it. I’ve never run mine on steam but it still sounds really good on compressed air.

[@user3141592635]

Nice video as usual, but I prefer to prep the broken surfaces with Silver-Solder (44 % or more) then press them together gently with flux under some spring-pressure, so as not to let the hands disturbing the process, and heat them up to let the solder float and fuze the parts perfectly well together in a very strong, allmost invisible joint. One can watch while the solder is still molten and do some small adjustments with a tool, if the parts are not mating properly at first. Det är den bästa metoden av alla...

[@danmenes3143]

Would there be a way to chemically clan the broken surfaces before applying the solder, or is the flux for the solder sufficient?

[@someguy2741]

It would be SUPER helpful if you spoke about how to setup the torches and what to look for. Maybe even a torch size for the brazing of small items. Maybe a tutorial just sticking two things together. Talk about brass and how it burns off into zinc vapours. It doesn't glow like copper it just gets that sheen and then melts. The metallic liquid on the sheen as it melts is zinc. You don't want to breath that in of you will feel unwell for a while. My understanding is silicon bronze does not have that issue but most bronze is tin based so the same thing will happen but bronze will glow and take heat better. I Googled the gas settings and the number one returns on the search said "set acetylene to 15psi and oxygen to 40psi" but acetylene decomposed without oxygen above 15psi. That is bad.

[@davidc6510]

Another successful repair. Well done Keith and thanks for sharing!

[@geneard639]

I know why the whistle sounds different under steam pressure, its the AIR MASS. Steam by volume is HEAVIER than much drier Air: Same as when you speak normally, and when you inhale helium. With a breath of helium its lighter in mass, thus your voice sounds like Mickey Mouse, but if you inhale sulfur hexafluoride your voice sounds MUCH deeper because it has higher mass being heavier than air (O2, N2, CO2, etc.) . So a Steam Whistle using air will sound like 'Mickey Mouse' (higher pitched) but under steam should sound like James Earl Jones (bass rumble). This lesson was taught to me by some old hands that used to throw wrenches at Steam Locomotives with the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio Railroad.

[@Paul-FrancisB]

The densities are different however steam (water vapour) has a molecular mass of 18 compared to air which is 29 kg/kmol, i.e. steam is lighter than air. At 100psig the density of compressed air is almost twice that of saturated steam as it is colder as well

[@MrChevelle83]

the 3 tone whistle gives that beloved high pitch mix low note nice steam whistle scream with a touch of growl that all of us steam power enthusiast love! gives them chills every time!! just like a 2 tone old 80s truck horn vs the single note horn its very distinctive!! whoooo whoooooo!!!!!

[@stephengibson3944]

Nice job using the tig you taught me something thanks

[@tonyn3123]

Congratulations with your fix for the old whistle! I hope the owner is the operator and understands it doesn't take a bulldozer to activate the valve. Looks like it should last for years to come. And the sound is nice. Thanks.

[@lerkzor]

Hi Keith. I had a thought - they may have put the extra spring on there to keep the handle from rattling, or perhaps the weight of the pullchain kept the valve open a bit. That may have caused the break though, because they had to pull too hard to activate the chime. What if you TIG'd a little bit more length on the rod, and made a cup on the lever to ride on a spring ? Always love your videos. See you next time o/

[@Garth2011]

Good planning Keith. If that spring was there when they were using that whistle, I would put much blame on just that causing the lever to break. They couldn't open the valve enough because the spring they put there was taking up too much of the travel of the valve stem and the lever was being stopped by the spring fully compressed before the valve would release the steam. So, it seems that someone put that spring there in error and then pulled and pulled to operate it not paying attention to why it didn't open the valve. It's sad that folks don't see the issues before forcing things past their intended use. If that spring was part of that valve set up, it likely goes inside with the larger spring to offer a step method in opening the valve. Two restrictions vs. one.

[@kenwoodcoda]

All aboard. Well done.

[@jimc.2032]

Chuck a rod the same size as the valve shank into your drill, then use a short piece of hose to connect the rod to the valve shank. Any alignment discrepancy is absorbed by the hose.

[@charlottewilcox4406]

I remember a very old Craftsman wernch set with 19/32 and 23/32 wrenches.

[@LifeBy10000Cuts]

Second spring was probably to prevent rattling while the valve is closed, to reduce the mushrooming that you filed off earlier.

[@TMxl-w5t]

My thoughts exactly, the spring was fitted by the makers of the whistle..

[@derekfawell2853]

I was holding my breath as you were welding. I guess you were too Keith!

[@paulkinzer7661]

I'm glad we got to hear it! I could see collecting these things; maybe even making some kind of instrument out of them if enough notes are available.

[@anthonycollin8303]

Wonderful craftsmanship, many thanks for the video.

[@russellcraven251]

Enjoyed seeing you tooting your success!

[@repete2362]

my son built a steam engine for a science fair .the plans showed making the " boiler"out of a steel juice can. i worked around steam boilers in the oilpatch . so the steel can was out. used compressed air for power. I'm sure steam power would have been a more impressive show but safety first.

[@robertpeters9438]

The piping mart has brass on brass welding instructions using tig and filler rods but requires specific losses and tips.

[@RichardHassett]

Good ob. Stronger now than original. I'm sure your customer is tickled pink. I think the purpose of the outer spring is to keep the lever off the vale stem unless the whistle is actually being actuated.. I suspect somebody just used the wrong (too long compressed height) spring.

[@jodyvanliew2514]

Wonderful repair Keith . I always enjoy your videos and it is extra nice when you help a viewer out with a repair .

[@oldfister7460]

I was hopeing you would try the whistle, Mant thanks.

[@uprightsquire]

I think the extra spring was to try to solve the leaking air through the valve. You could hear the tone change when your hands covered the whistle, so it's going through the valve. I think the best solution is replacing the internal spring with something stronger to keep the valve closed.

[@julianold4441]

Been looking to see if anyone suggested this. Yes it was leaking and a stronger spring (or even stretch the original at a pinch) is a good shout. Of course, the little spring did nothing after the mushrooming was fixed. Still, now it's welded up serviceable it's an easy fix.

[@RobertFay]

*- Nice weld. Good craft work.*

[@zuke-ci4vd]

You fixed it, never a doubt in my mind... 😎👍 Great job, as always, Keith.

[@P61guy61]

Thank you for your videos!

[@seapy2398]

Well done, tricky job.

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Keith

[@PhilG999]

Just a thought: Sometimes you might find a Metric wrench that fits. I have both as I've found a mix of SAE and Metric fasteners on my cars. ETA I posted this before I scrolled down and saw genesun71's post.

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@Tishers]

I think it is the increased density of steam vs. air that gives a steam whistle the more complex sound.

[@davesharp7159]

Hi Keith. I think silver solder brazing would be best. Just my guess. Model brass boilers use silver solder brazing for pressure set I think it could here. Use 55% silver solder. Dave

[@lleavell92630]

Very interesting.

[@SciPunk215]

Great project in one video!

[@dfye55]

Maybe I missed it, but how you cleaned the lapping compound out would have been interesting too.

[@JurgenStrauss-ow2ge]

Of cause it is louder under steam , because then it works with much higher pressure ! Most steam engines work with 14 - 16 bar .

[@thirzapeevey2395]

I'm with Tom Jewett, that extra spring is probably what broke it, The other spring may be the cause of the air leak: it isn't strong enough to keep the valve closed.

[@terrycannon570]

Keith if function is the object then I would have used oxy-acte torch and sylfos brazing rod with flux. I'm sure you already know sil-fos is used a lot in the refrigeration industry to braze copper and brass. If you are wanting to color match it then I guess welding is a better choice.

[@eliduttman315]

IIRC, steam contains more energy than compressed air. The heat of vaporization of water is quite substantial.

[@belatoth3763]

In the movie "Evil Roy Slade" bandits took the whistle from the train because they liked its sound. They mounted it to a carriage. Thebmovie makers had not much understanding how a train whistle works.

[@Jim-ie6uf]

It was probably the small spring on the valve rod that caused the breakage. The lever couldn’t be pulled far enough to make the whistle blow, so they just pulled harder.

[@ddblairco]

thank you Keith

[@davidhudson5452]

Well done Keith

[@robertharker]

Feed the KZbin algorithm with a comment. Great video. Thank you!

[@KarlLittle1975]

Great job Keith!

[@michaelwade9348]

Thanks for the test!

[@Drottninggatan2017]

British standard 7/16 W is 0,710" or 18,03 mm Smaller than 3/4" and larger than 11/16". If you use imperial tools on these they will round over. But you can use a 18 mm wrench or socket.

[@GWBoen]

Good morning Keith, Good video, as always.

[@bobcoombs7924]

Could the extra spring cause the break because it wouldn't open. Great Whistle!!!

[@ljackson8220]

Nice repair

[@mattomon1045]

great repair

[@robertpeters9438]

The spring on the handle prevents a rattle of the handle.

[@paulsilva3346]

20:30, KEITH, could that extra spring denote something like the mainspring is too weak and they wanted extra spring to keep the valve closed? I hope LAPPING IN the vavle seat helps... 23:02

[@TheUncleRuckus]

I bet you that spring is what caused it to break in the first place, someone was pulling too hard trying to get it to sound but it wouldn't bc that spring kept it from compressing like it's supposed to and it broke off. 👍👍

[@timf6916]

Good job

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video Nice Job as always.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing.👍