Budo: A Tale Untold

[@christophervelez1561]

If you’re looking for a good book, not sure if you’ve included it in this video, but Choque and Craze are awesome references for bjj, judo and jiujitsu as it came to the western hemisphere. Drysdales books are a little easier to read.

[@neotenylv09]

So much interesting stuff in one video, I need to rewatch this a few more times. But so far, thank you for the books recommendations. Now I will be watching your new video then come back later to this one.

[@dirtygeazer9266]

I've not done any of these Japanese martial arts I've done BJJ and wrestling but idk why your and chadis channel going over lore or movements or culture like what is considered trash or banned is just soo good love these videos keeps me pushing through my martial arts journey even if I'm not a samurai or karate or judo person

[@TenguMartialArts]

Hey man it’s all martial arts at the end of the day! I’m glad you’re enjoying the content and wish you well in your training 🙂

[@user-zj3zx9mi5o]

A naturally born fighter, makes a different type of student...some remain beginners forever....the instructor matters more than the "art"....as in anything, take for example guitar lessons, it will be roughly 1 out of 10,000 or 100,000 that will be a "Jimmy Hendrix", while others can never solo and keep the timing, the space, or key being played in real time with others...im 50, and have studied Japanese martial arts since i was 9....we need the "geeks" to keep the notes and preserve the "basics"..and we need born fighters to put life Into how these lessons can still apply today...most "techniques" actually have several techniques in the "basic Kata"...if taking notes, and gaining Rank is your goal, your training may not end up being as effective, as a human with a true mind for combat...

[@kyuken893]

Thanks for the book recommendations, I am glad to find your channel through this video.

[@fhoniemcphonsen8987]

Great stuff. Thanks for posting.

[@christophervelez1561]

Yoooo just in time for my walk with my dog!

[@mizukarate]

Look just keep training and keep an open mind.

[@EmpTrajan]

The first text source you show onscreen indicates a marked dearth of spear use, or at least spear death in japanese warfare. It's not exactly your area, but i'm curious if you have any thoughts on why that might have been

[@TenguMartialArts]

Sengoku warfare is definitely where my study of military history is the most thin, but I’ll recount what I believe is happening there. Spears were basically deployed in tight formation. The aim of these units was basically to shut down attacks, de-incentivize attacks, or otherwise tie up units (usually opposing spear units). The idea here is that you could sit these spear units down and Calvary wouldn’t want to charge directly into them (typically). They could also be used to lock up an opposing spear unit in combat, albeit usually these encounters weren’t all that deadly. And, finally, they could be used to start to pressure opposing firing positions. Obviously, these units were weak to missile weapons because they usually were a mass of targets all moving together as if glued. The flip side of that, is they opened up fire lanes for your own arrows/guns and could lock a unit down so horsemen could sweep through them without having to worry about vaulting over as many spears. And, of course, their mere presence might suppress or draw missile fire from somewhere else. In short, the spear and the units they were attached to had the role of organizing the battlefield and setting up other units for success. In martial arts terms, calvary and missile units might have been a round kick and big cross respectively, but the spear units were a jab. At a glance, this makes their contributions seem inferior because they aren’t killing a whole lot of people, but that is only in a vacuum. In reality, the job of the spearman (and spear) was to enable other units to do damage. This is a great example of how statistics are rarely the full story. Off the battlefield, however, the spear had its day in the sun as a dueling implement to my understanding. Hozoin-ryu spearmanship was the premier martial arts system in that regard. Hopefully that answers your question. Again, I’d take this with some grains of salt as I’m mostly reproducing how it was explained to me back in school. I feel quite a bit more comfortable talking about much older military strategy.

[@charliewenger7682]

nuh uh

[@dorukgolcu9191]

I have read "Legacies of the Sword", this makes me want to track down the other writings of Friday 🤔 Funnily enough, "Softness overcomes strength" can also be stated as "French school of fencing" 😝

[@TenguMartialArts]

A piece of deep lore is that Friday was my advisor. I’m definitely biased, but I also have read the stuff adjacent to his and I genuinely think he is right most of the time.

[@TheCCBoi]

What’s the style on 36:00? It looks really cool - also could you put your sources in the description. The way I look at it, if you take a room clearing class from a former Navy SEAL - Does that mean you’re conducting Navy SEAL training - NO. You’re training on techniques (in isolation) a Navy SEAL used during combat based off their experiences (which may or may not have been standardized across the force). Training a soldier is a holistic process that goes beyond just techniques. The samurai were no different, training in just techniques without the larger holistic process of building a soldier does not prepare you for war. Old Samurai masters creating Koryu are basically the equivalent of a former Navy SEALs creating a school to train wannabe civilian soldiers on the weekend. Training in Koryu doesn’t make you a samurai, just like shooting at a range with a former SEAL doesn’t make you a special operator.

[@TenguMartialArts]

I believe that the style is Kashima Shinto-Ryu. Been awhile though and I just arbitrarily picked a sword film out of my files. I’ll see about sitting down and tossing everything into the description later this week.

[@CraigHocker]

At 36:00 it is most definitely video of Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū

[@craigbush363]

Haven’t read the books on Kano, so asking this blindly, but how much do you think his usage of western writing was to better explain his ideas as he found a parallel for his principles (and added bonus of what was popular) rather than taking ideas and adding them in?

[@TenguMartialArts]

I do suspect that was going on a bit to “revitalize” old ideas-which is just a repackaging of martial arts concepts. At the same time, though, I think he was borrowing more or less truly western ideas. When it comes to Spencer, for example, I think we could say he saw a popular philosophical concept and piggybacked a bit on it because it was parallel to an old Japanese ideal. Ostvald, on the other hand, I think was only very loosely a Japanese parallel. I think it would have taken some creative cherry-picking. Not to mention that Ostvald’s theories were eventually proven incorrect from a scientific PoV; and if I recall properly this was in Kano’s one lifetime.

[@iamalonewolf1]

Bushido is both revised history and military doctrine, and as such, it is subject to the same criticisms. Budo is only budo, nothing more and nothing less. I see you read Legacy of Jigoro Kano, a beautiful book. You could do a followup on making a relation with Orientalism. Cheers, good essay.

[@Ninja9JKD]

Some interesting points, but largely I don't agree. Bujinkan holds Ryuha that are up to 34 Generations old, from more than 1000 years ago.

[@TenguMartialArts]

Lots of ryuha hold to this, but there simply isn’t any documentation to support it. In Japan, appeals to tradition lend a strong sense of legitimacy, resulting in a bit of a contest to trace origins back as far as possible. There is simply no evidence to suggest ryuha as we generally think of them predate the 1500’s, however, despite many claims to the contrary. The reality is that without documentation all we have is people’s word that it was some secret oral tradition and, usually, the people giving their word have a vested interest in the lineage seeming as long-lived as possible. Frankly, I view the situation about as credibly as I view the Free Masons being secret architects of social progress or regress. Is it possible? I guess, but it’s really, really unlikely. I’d be interested in seeing these claims validated as much as the next guy, but I’m not willing to take people’s word on it regardless of how immeshed in a tradition they may be. In fact, such entanglement in a system implies a stronger chance of bias than anything else.

[@airon3348]

@@TenguMartialArts It is not information available to the public, not for foreigners anyway. The vast majority of japanese martial traditions have already disappeared and for the very few of those that remain in force today are governed by a strict family system (家元). The secretive and discreet characteristic of this family system prevents much information (if any) from leaving the small circle to which it belongs. The interesting thing is that it is not limited only to the world of Budo. Being accepted into a martial current (流派) today, means being accepted into the family to which that tradition belong; which is almost impossible for a foreigner. Some currents have become "modernized" and welcoming the "internationalization" by opening up _to some extent_ to the public (Hyōhō Taisha-ryū 兵法タイ捨流 is a good example). But they are very, very few cases. True and old japanese tradition alive today is closed and secretive to the core. Much information is transmitted orally and accessing to records (mokuroku) is virtually impossible without a letter of recommendation from a (japanese) person of very high status and reputation. This naturally entails consequences for the outsiders, so misinformation and all kinds of exaggerations or extravagance appear here or there. However, in the past decades, some foreigners who have somehow managed to gain the trust of family members of some of these currents, have disseminated _some_ information in published works. A perfect example are Alex Bennett Sensei, George McCall Sensei or Meik Skoss Sensei. Even Otake Risuke Sensei allowed the translation into English of several of his works, as did the legendary Donn Draeger with authorization. So no, it is not at all an easy task to trace the authentic origin of this or that japanese martial "school" _without_ being japanese, understand, read and speak the language perfectly and above all, having access to the _Iemoto_ and their records. All that can be known is the information they provide when they offer _enbu_ (演武) or in the best of cases, through the very few choosen foreigners who have been able to integrate into those traditions. www.koryu.com/bio.html

[@mizukarate]

Huh!!!!!!!😂

[@moz5831]

Do you have any insight into aikido taking from Shinto practices? Like what would a modern Shinto practicioner say about aikido's philosophy and techniques? I'm not thinking about just the obvious stuff like Tori Fune, but the whole guiding principle of some mysterious energy flowing through us yadi yadi yaa and all this strange videos of a small Japanese man throwing people with invisible judo. Is it all just shinto in disguise, like I have come to believe? On a sidenot, Ueshibas adventures in colonising China with his cult leader I believe are not in any public media as far as I know, apart from few articles - there's basically a movie script there waiting to be made (however whether it's a tragedy or farce one cannot tell).

[@TenguMartialArts]

It’s been a few years since I’ve read the jumble that is Ueshiba’s philosophy and, honestly, it was pretty brutal even then when my Japanese wasn’t so under-practiced. What I can say is that I firmly believe Ueshiba’s beliefs are essentially Daoism with a Shinto coat of paint. I don’t mean this to imply that Ueshiba learned Daoism from his time in China or anything so much as he probably organically pulled on the Daoist influences already inside Japanese culture. I don’t have much interaction with Japanese religion (although visiting temples and shrines is always fun), so I can only relate my suspicions here. Generally speaking, I think most modern Shinto would probably be taken aback or even confused by Ueshiba’s spiritual system. It certainly has a “Japanese aesthetic” and some practices are ostensibly the same. That said, the “Shinto” that Ueshiba was interfacing with was very ultra-nationalist; modern Shinto itself really being a construction of the Imperial Government for all the reasons you’d expect. Shinto today, while undeniably conservative, is in many ways just kind of a background set piece. I’m sure it still has political radicals in the mix, but for everyday folks, I’m not sure they really relate to “Shinto” as a grand doctrine of spiritualism or even state. Traditions are regularly forgotten even where they are strongest, in more rural areas. I know this is long winded, but I think a lot of Ueshiba’s terminology could be substituted for Daoist vocabulary and still retain its meaning. While this might not be wholly alien to a modern Shinto priest, I’d be surprised to learn if they found some kind of connection to it in regard to their own practices. What Ueshiba and the Omoto people were up to is undeniably “Japanese,” but I’ve always envisioned it as an ultra-nationalist cult. Maybe a good comparison would be that the average Christian Protestant probably would recognize the iconography, source materials, etc. of the Branch Davidian cult as it was in the Waco, Texas incident. But in practice, what the Davidians were up to was basically their own thing. Again, long winded, apologies. Japanese religious history is interesting as all get out, but I think it’s a lot more fragmented than most realize. Even today, “Shinto” is more or less defined by the Imperial Family presiding over a whole nation of folk cults. Lots of crossover, but no one is necessarily doing “the same thing.”

[@moz5831]

@@TenguMartialArts Not long winded at all, on the contrary. Very interesting. Thank you, I learned something new!

[@horreheitedet4320]

this is crack for me

[@horreheitedet4320]

finally I can be even more of a bezzerwizzer about martial arts history

[@horreheitedet4320]

What did you study in school?

[@TenguMartialArts]

My degree says Asian Studies, but something like 90% of my graduate school was Premodern Japanese History. Just more generic East Asian history in undergrad.

[@maxpower8439]

Started of interesting then descended into the basic modern US-centric (everything is about racism) view of the development of history of post-Edo period of Japan. All in all honestly the video could have and should have been better.

[@TenguMartialArts]

I’m as exhausted by modern politics as the next person, but doing this story without the inclusion of the racist dynamic would be a historical error. The racism is here in ink. We can’t just cherry-pick sources because we are tired of modern narratives or dislike what those sources might say. But beyond that, this wasn’t at all U.S.-centric. There was plenty discussed about how the Japanese fumbled with their own descent into ultra-nationalist militarism. If anything, the core premise here was that these two nations’ vicious cycle of negative diplomatic engagement in the early 20th century spiraled into harming both our understanding of and overall health of Japanese martial arts. The hard historical facts here are that there really isn’t a “Meiji Period” as we know it without deep western influence and all the good and bad that arrived with it.

[@maxpower8439]

​@@TenguMartialArts The issue here is that they (other League of nations main members) didn't want to allow a new colonial power, in this case Japan, to emerge in Asia. Especially in the part where Germany (and other colonial powers) previously held certain domains which Japan claimed immediately after WW1. Hell, the whole point of WW1 was because of German colonial expansionist tendencies. They were not going to allow Japan either to take that role just yet. However, despite their efforts, afterwards Japan grew as a military power and started it's own expansionist policies in the rest of East and Southeast Asia. That's the main "dynamic" that was in motion at the time and from which everything else occurred not the modern US-centric (everything is about racism) view of the development of history. As for the Meiji period occurring as a reaction to "western" industrial and cultural influence, yeah that's well historically established.