Building a LISTENING ROOM from scratch...

[@GiguereSylvain]

Gee It's been a long while since we've seen Herb! I vote so that we see him more regularly in your reviews. Great report and project! Thumbs up.

[@l.m.372]

Herb needs his own channel!

[@bernardomartins733]

youtube.com/@Cocteau61

[@rickyblair8802]

Yes Herb neeeds his own channel but more, we need Herb to have his own channel.

[@FOH3663]

Agreed Anything from Herb. Hell, discussing mating rituals of the Great Horned owl would be compelling af! More herb.

[@Thode-R]

@@FOH3663 mating rituals of siberian mittens would be interesting.. should really be a doctorat in university somewhere...

[@pablohrrg8677]

The listening room has to be inviting, inspiring, etcetera, more than acoustically perfect.

[@crimsonghost6454]

I love Herb. Need him more often. Great video

[@mproyuclan]

Herb is so refreshing in his lack of reverence for the sterile listening space and I have just bought out the entire production of yak wool mittens from a small Mongolian collective and will add them as a wall hanging to my problem walls 🤣 👍👍👍

[@mhart9279]

I've been watching your channel for a few years. This was your best episode. I am in the process of building an audio room; your guests hit on exactly what my goal is - the experience. Not only about the sound but about being able to enjoy it, experience it and not be just about the sound. A big part of what the outcome will be, is what I eventually call it. I haven't settled on a name yet. My ears perked up when the words 'not a man-cave' were spoken.

[@brandonburr4900]

I hereby call this the audiophile mitten video. Herb steals the show again! We need more herb !

[@jeffreythurston1822]

The art to it is having the best sound you can possibly have while at the same time making the room inviting and an experience in itself.

[@g-mail4743]

Yes thats the true art of it

[@lapetitemortbis]

I think you should have Herb come back more often. It’s so much fun to watch him.

[@52gerg]

Great timing on this, as I am in the final planning stages of building a dedicated room myself. I have really been debating having windows in my room, as well as what overall vibe I’m after. I think having natural light, a nice view, and comfortable surroundings will make for a more enjoyable overall experience. This video helped, thank you.

[@adrielrowley]

Firstly, what a fun video, thanks Steve for taking us along. Secondly, in the video with Nelson Pass, did look as though there is no sound treatment in his listening room, other than a rug on the floor. Thirdly, what about a fiber art, ex. a tapestry, on the stone wall? Not the whole wall of course.

[@kjbiz]

Love seeing Herb all the time, especially in tandem with you Steve. I agree it is the experience. We have a rented house with a lot of glass and blinds to assist, but it is what we call the ‘sound lounge’ aptly named by my partner where I can sit listen and drift off as I look over the rice paddies 😊🙏

[@smortega54]

Herb is a wise man. I've been to some high-end listening rooms where the space was optimized for sound- no expense spared. The experience seemed somewhat analogous to rather than having headphones on- being in a "whole-body-phone" and with a similar isolating quality. I instead prefer some compromises in acoustics but a space to enjoy good music, reading and company. With that in mind, instead of mittens, our living/music/library room has books and record albums- lots of them. BTW Steve, I went for a DS Audio E1 after coming across one of your videos- it is a game changer.

[@johnnytran1067]

You have great regulars but these two are my favourite.

[@DannerPlace]

Fun episode. Looking forward to the follow-up episode.

[@markpocock183]

First mention of dimensions was 15x30x10' high. Direct multiples of each other, will cause coincident room modes and uneven bass. Better to have uneven multiples to spread out modes.

[@carlitomelon4610]

AMROC app is a great tool!

[@ronskopitz2360]

I agree - but just having that 30’ depth is a huge advantage.

[@FOH3663]

@@ronskopitz2360 Agreed ... the dimensions are problematic, coincident modal summing, etc. But agree with your point; it's always best to start with as much physical dimensionality in each direction ... possible. False walls, facing ... make the room appear bigger in the lowest octaves. It's my ideal approach; face and trim out w/diffusion the front of mammoth deep effective LF damping. Energy sees a normal sized room from 200hz or so and higher. Yet the bigger wavelengths accompanying the bottom octaves see bigger volume ... thus they're damped and well controlled. Every residential type room is plagued with poor decay times. Ideally, uniform decay times top to bottom is desirable. Unfortunately, most every room is the opposite; fast HF decay, and long decay times as freqs lower. Solution, as much LF damping (bass trapping) as possible, then face the trapping with thick plastic sheeting, thin wood panels, etc. Visqueen type thickness will begin to return energy ... above several hundred hertz or so. Mammoth bass trapping, behind normal appearing scattering type surface. Bass clarity, bass texture, and detail ... that's how you get it. Address LF decay times.

[@Drackleyrva]

Great interview. Lighting is just as important (to me) as the sound---I like the room to have a vibe visually and be inviting.

[@LS-ti6jo]

I could watch you & Herb for hours.

[@garyedwards9617]

I want to give this video 10 thumbs up :)

[@markbayer1665]

Hilarious Herb. All I can think about is the always sunny episode with kitten mittons

[@tomasvalentin6896]

Hey, a big shout out to proffer Herbert, he was my history art teacher, back in my Dowling college days, so good to see him,

[@Cocteau61]

hay hey hello Tomas !

[@tomasvalentin6896]

Hey proffer, it’s so good to see you. All that time back in Dowling college days (2001-2006) I didn’t know that you was into hifi audio. Just started my journey in the world of hifi audio and I watch you guys all the time. Thank you and Steve for all the great video.

[@karlhartwig3981]

I want to live in Audio Wonderland! Great show, super interesting things I will probably never do to my listening space but wish I could. Really enjoyed seeing Herb again in fine form.

[@niveketihw1897]

I'm decently happy with our listening room that also doubles as a home theater (albeit with only two channel audio plus subs, but it sounds light years better than every soundbar any of our friends have)... but my favorite listening area is actually my floor desk with active studio monitors. It's just for one person at a time though.

[@ianyates7742]

I kind of wish Herb lived a bit nearer to me. He sounds like a lot of fun and a man after my own heart and as for building Engins on the white carpet. I’m up for that brilliant video and the front stone wall I wold put some Old Indian handmade carpets on that wall or tapestries

[@Bob_Betker]

Great discussion. I want to disagree a little with Herb about his man-cave comment. To me, a man-cave is my place to display my interests, my hobbies, the things that I like. Yeah, we all have seen the sports man-caves but I've seen ones that focus on the owner's woodworking hobby, their fishing hobby (one highlighted antique fishing nets),, another had his collection of die-cast models on display. Mine would have books, albums, some artwork, some items that I have collected, the silly figurines my kids have bought me over the years, a favorite movie poster or two and some hidden room treatments; I'd not object to an Eames chair but would probably have a sectional just like you showed and one or two folding director's chairs that can be placed in the room's sweet spot on occasion. Too often when I've been in listening rooms over the past 50 years they have always seemed sterile and unnatural and as a result uninviting. The most memorable one was arranged like a living room, it felt warm and inviting and seemed to draw you into the music and listening experience. I'm not saying neglect the acoustic performance but don't hyper-focus on it either. Remove the really annoying acoustic issues but otherwise just let the room live naturally and reflect you. Adam, good luck on your adventure.

[@spunkthecombo]

I thught this was a interview with Adam? Turned into a interview with Herb about mittens!

[@PanAmStyle]

If I were Adam I would watch all the Acoustic Fields videos possible and then talk to Dennis.

[@thegrimyeaper]

Love these two!

[@adamwexler8898]

❤

[@thomasbrice8884]

Thanks for sharing the think tank and looking forward to hopefully seeing the finished project

[@fletchermunson6225]

Instead of mittens, how about bras. Some deflection and absorption. Some padded, etc.

[@thegrimyeaper]

Audioquest Golden Gate Damping Bras

[@paulstearns93]

I would suggest instead of of a 2x6 wall, you might 2 parallel 2x4 walls finished only on one side each with off setting studs on the inside & outside so there is an "air space" between the walls. Fill the airspace with fiberglass. The wall could two layers with 5/8" drywall against the studs, and the ply facing the listening space. This will isolate the listening room so that you can rock out in the listening room and conduct business in the other areas.

[@oldvalvemic]

I think the best you can do is create a comfortable warm acoustically dry space that people want to hang out in. Ultimately they want to see and hear in comfort with good vibes and buy the lifestyle they are looking for. They will take the product home and then reevaluate in their own time and return if unhappy. Sterile listening spaces aren’t any fun to buy in. Being surrounded by nicknacks and records inherently shortens reverb times and increases good vibes. Love the mittens idea although screen printed acoustic panels are fun

[@declanfarber]

Oh that was fun. So much truth there.

[@robertmitchell6015]

I hope we see progress videos and especially the end result

[@Dark_Vader888]

Agreed about the chairs. I have a large sectional in my listening room

[@kenjames246]

It’s NEVER too much to include the Audiophile Viewer System Of The Day Steve. I was so looking forward to it and now am saddened by the absence. 😭😉

[@NickP333]

“Hunting mittens sounds maybe too reflective” Haha 😂 Always great to see Herb on the show, and I dig Adam’s vibe. Great vid. Thanks, Steve! Looking forward to seeing how the room turns out.

[@benburkett6560]

OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!

[@SmallChurch]

*Audiophile Oven-Gloves* are definitely the 'new' acoustic diffusers!

[@ryanweaver1784]

"You got your work cut out for you." Amen to that audiophile brother Steve..He needs to check out John Brandt, a great room designing resource.

[@Pksparty2112]

I’m currently thinking about a listing room. I don’t want drywall and panels. I’m going to make something like what you guys are talking about. A listing/conversation room. I want it to be fun and unique.

[@glenncurry3041]

WOW! The exact position I am in! Just committed to finishing the basement into a listening room. The open space is 40' x 40' x 8.5'. 2 x poured concrete walls and floor. Engineered structural wood rafters I am thinking of filling with different density layers and leave open underneath to make a massive bass trap out of it. Better than corner traps! But the dimensions are the big question. The "Ratio". With my given height, the width is somewhat predetermined? But I want to take advantage of room length to reduce standing waves at low frequencies. So 35' length at least? And what materials for the wall that needs to be built? Wish I could have been in that discussion!

[@FOH3663]

Big thick ceiling trapping is great, it'll be quite effective ... but being just on the top boundary of the room, it's not fully addressing resonances front-to-back, and side-to-side. Re; Corners ... corners are powerfully influential, as all modes inhabit the corners, moreso the tri-corners. Your ceiling absorption, go for it, ... as much as possible. In residential sized room acoustics, there's very few hard and fast rules, most everything depends. Except the ceiling ... nothing good returns off the ceiling, treat it, treat it all! With sidewalls, it depends, front is different from the side, which is different from the rear, diffusion, absorption ... just all depends. But the ceiling? Kill it all, nothing good comes from above! And the big long dimension ... DIY a mammoth bass trap along the back wall ... mega effective, very simple. It could be as simple as rolls of insulation, sill encased in its wrapper, all stacked up ... four foot deep, even more. Then face that with a false wall ... 2x4s covered in fabric, stapled on (that cheapest way, there's fabric system just for this). Then incorporate some diffusion atop the false fabric wall. This is what studios do. Mega bass trap like that ... tightest bass you've ever encountered. Texture, clarity.

[@stephenstevens6573]

More Herb, please!!

[@paulpavlou9294]

I think you should put a patent on Audiophile mitten absorption panels. Good fun video.

[@SuperMcgenius]

My experience is positive with rounded corners in one or two walls or a ceiling. Also good is non-parallel 5-8 degree wall or ceiling . The room is 40-50% of the system.

[@ronskopitz2360]

I agree. And speakers are another 40% - 50% (for a digital-based system, anyway)

[@aitchr8770]

Herb Reichart is an American National Treasure. ❤

[@Scopolamine46]

Putting quarter rounds in the corners of the Music room is probably a great idea. I've gotta think about doing this myself.

[@carlitomelon4610]

I placed GIK curved abfusors 45° across my front corners with additional bass trap panels in the void behind. Needed to diffuse Maggie LRS back wave evenly. 🎵🎶😊🎶🎵

[@keplermission]

@@carlitomelon4610 Yeah but you know, even a placebo works. Doesn't do a thing but we think it does and as Herb says, sounds different. I have a question ... if it works why are the insides of speaker cabinets not similarly finished off? Herb would offer: Why that's easy ... they're never seen! Seeing is believing, I guess.

[@flappospammo]

This always seems to be the thing nobody thinks about when setting up a system , but it’s arguably the most important thing

[@Scopolamine46]

I was lucky enough to move into a condo where my living room/listening area dimensions are almost equivalent to the golden ratio. Perhaps this is why I have done almost nothing in the way of room treatments other than books, record albums a throw rug and non-reverberant furniture.

[@artkulak9802]

It's a LISTENING room. Make it look like/resemble spaces that we know, see and listen to music in that were designed for listening/performing. Concert hall, auditorium. These are typically very grand and visually engaging spaces. And there's plenty of different "architectural styles" to choose from. It can still be comfortable with some domestic twists.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

I could listen to Herb for hours.

[@pickyaudiophile]

Always great to listen to Herb sharing his profound knowledge. That 1/4 sanotube utilized room corner chamfering thing to me sounds like a sludgy DIY nightmare to execute.

[@scottengh1175]

Frank Lloyd Wright built pentagon cross-section. Then about 17° rise from stage to box office. The seats were herringbone/chevron, wide end towards stage. Then the stage has a semi hemisphere concrete bowl under the stage. Amazing sound. I wanted to do the maple plywood walls and ceiling in my listening room. My wife would not allow. My builder looked at me like I was crazy. I did 2x6 studs, 1 inch away from concrete walls, stuffed with Fibre glass. Then 1.5 inch channels perpendicular, 1/2 sheet rock. Ceiling is tongue and groove knotty pine. Back wall are shelves of mostly cork duck decoys.

[@WS-gs6sf]

Herb is onto something with the setting. Wine marketers sell $80 bottles of wine all day long when the wine is tied to an experience.

[@davids2214]

I’m right near Red Hook and look forward to checking out the space. Is the idea that it will be for listening to the current offerings they have in stock?

[@adamwexler8898]

Yup! Mainly for new equipment but vintage too if you’re so inclined!

[@davids2214]

@@adamwexler8898 very cool. is there a website yet/do you know what brands you’ll be carrying?

[@golfsh00ter]

Love the topic and video, it’s not all about gear. And Herb has a glorious head of hair… very jealous.

[@phototristan]

What are the sound panels in this video? Anyone know?

[@FOH3663]

The diffuser over Herb's shoulder? I don't recognize it ... perhaps diy.

[@jeffgrayson7639]

That is a quadratic diffuser

[@keithmoriyama5421]

I'm building a purpose built listening room-- 15'x21' One problem that plagues basement builds is a low ceiling-- 7'8" I decided to have NO ceiling and use the floor board of the above room as my ceiling. Because the joists run parallel to the speakers, they provide a natural diffuser extending the ceiling to 9'. The actual joists are fibreglass filled with curved and flat diffuser panels in between. The result is an infinite ceiling that also adds SPL to the entire space. At least that's my theory BUT-- who knows.

[@svbarr]

corner foam alone can really help. I have a dull but good room. Carpet on floor (with real thick pad) , nothing on the ceiling and major corner foam. One bass trap. No echo or weird reflections...

[@donaldchamble6897]

I've tried to get you a few pictures of my system but it is not working right now.

[@kenhurstmedia]

Aside from this interview, I had already been thinking I’d suggest you consider interviewing Dennis Foley with Acoustic Fields. Dennis can speak to the physics and math involved in controlling room acoustics and creating good listening spaces. I think you’d enjoy his channel and speaking with him sometime. Dennis doesn’t base his suggestions based on guesses. youtube.com/@AcousticFields

[@williamdonovan5709]

So this kinda sound room related. I’m going to the April AXPONA show in Chicago (Schaumburg) and have never been before. Perhaps you could do a short on going to these types of shows and how to enjoy them. 150 rooms of stereo equipment sounds daunting, how does one even begin to navigate them. Find your channel quite interesting and relatable. Thanks.

[@jlmain5777]

How about if you grow English Ivy in pots at the base of the stone wall? Right up the wall.

[@underthesun312]

Herb has become Smitten with the Mitten!!!

[@oldvalvemic]

Most listening rooms in Hifi shops in London (Uk) seem to be rubbish acoustically Ive found. I asked one recently why they didn’t do something a little better about the resonant frequency nodes in the room and their reply was interesting. Why make the room really good acoustically so our hifi sounds fantastic here but will sound inferior as soon as it gets to the buyers living room which inevitably wont be a decent sounding space. This really made me think about the silliness of not listening to speakers in the space for which they are intended for. I guess one can make relative evaluations between products.

[@TheHonarable1]

Totally agree with Herb 100%.

[@JimLongCO]

I was expecting to hear more dos and don'ts for when you're starting from scratch

[@geol7408]

Half way through the "mitten" conversation it became apparent that Herb hid the bong right before the taping.

[@williamsharp5973]

Too funny. Hilarious. Superbly informative. Mini-series! No, wait - Cliff Hanger Serial!!!

[@williamsharp5973]

This is like a movie that gets better each time you watch it. LMAO, right now. Thanks so much. :)

[@annebokma4637]

Herb says he likes turn of the century.. first thing popping up in my head is.. what century 🤣 then he says Eames chair.. good choice, not turn of century though 😁 Best advice, Herb keep to your strength, audio mittens all around 😂 Love experiencing Herb again. A listening room at an audio gear seller shouldn't be perfect, that creates false expectations in the buyers. That being said, gonna google audio mittens right now

[@vaneast411]

not big on the ideas here but looks like a cool beginning for a new space

[@gtric1466]

From what I learned so far is the system (speakers) need to pressurize the room. That doesn't mean playing it loud. I'm usually around 75Db. But at that point the band is in front of me and the room disappears.

[@TombstoneTube]

Herb is class.

[@rabit818]

TV in the listening room?

[@madisongraham9307]

Cool picture at intro of a Nakamichi System One-- wish I still had mine… as an architect I would go with a non- rectangular room configuration.

[@FOH3663]

You're right. An ever widening room, sidewalls splayed out front to back, wider in the rear of the room ... addresses clarity, imaging/soundstaging, cleaner Energy/Time curves. Most importantly it's managing the ITD Gap. The initial time delay gap ... For best performance, after the direct sound, reflections within the first ~10ms need to be at least -12dB below the direct sound. For spaciousness, reflected energy should arrive after this, low enough in level not to be identifiable on it's own. That geometry is employed in studios, mastering rooms ... delaying the sidewalls contribution via redirection. Redirect most all the energy, but ideally deep, effective, diffusion is perfect at the first reflection point. Capture and diffuse that energy, return it to the listening position to taste ... ASW, Apparent Source Width, is driven by those diffuse sidewall returns. Spaciousness, as an attribute, is driven by late arriving reflected room energy. A good clean hit of the direct energy, free from nearby reflections via cabinets, shelves, items etc., diffuse sidewall returns, bathed in a perfectly diffuse soundfield!

[@arthurpendragon1610]

My advice is lay out the design for maximum eye appeal so you have something nice to look at and it "looks" like a listening room. Don't stare at blank walls and don't put the rack in between speakers on the front wall (it screws up the imaging big time). Treat first reflections seriously either by choosing angles that don't bounce the wrong directions or furniture or padding that will absorb the reflections. Use Sumiko setup to get the sound right. Finally, spend a year moving the speakers a quarter inch at a time until they explode with tonality in the "magic spot." Ha!

[@djhmax09]

I'd check out acoustic fields if it were me. Dennis has a lot of experience building rooms

[@krwd]

wow, thats klipsch k horn size room

[@airwatersun]

When you talk about acousticians, kinda like those who build recording studios and mastering rooms?...you highlight an interesting point. Audiophiles really don't care about the technical accuracy of their systems, but instead, both in terms of equipment, acoustics, and esthetics, seem to choose a "flavor" translation that suits them. That is OK because they don't have to translate anything to other rooms as professionals do. A very interesting discussion...lots of "color" and "flavor"😁

[@rejean2744]

I stood up a 54" pillow in each corner of my front wall and swear it made a difference in the sound. (for the better) I think there are inexpensive ways to combat a poor room. Do a little studying of what causes a room to be bad and then use your imagination to fix any issues you might have.

[@KirkLazurus]

More videos like this.

[@seanb3303]

Didn’t realize this video was a parody at first

[@ben23a31]

Why not use a music studio as a blue print ?

[@vinylrules4838]

If Adam Wexler is not familiar with Acoustic Fields, I high suggest he reaches out Dennis Foley. At a minimum, watch some of his KZbin videos and look at his products. He has the best products on the market for handling the entire frequency range. This includes both building out the room and room treatment.

[@Boudas72]

Steve and Herb. Double Fantasy.

[@scottwolf8633]

Herb is THE Man. But now I can see the cost for used mittens being bid up through the roof. How about custom, woolen, afghans knitted into Pueblo patterns suspended a few inches off the Bricks?

[@jeremyr722]

Without having met Herb, I know for a fact I would like him. He just seems warm and good natured, the kinda guy you could really hang out with

[@ML-rm3vk]

That was fun entertaining and made you think about room full of mittens funny but it may help.

[@hhsymons3866]

Herb is hilarious, and very bright!

[@isaacestep3321]

Herb out of pocket with the mittens but might be on to something. I like rugs and every time my wife asks if we should get another house plant? yes yes yes.

[@markkrause5094]

Thanks for speaking sense into this subject.

[@michaelbrighton5244]

Actually this is not building a listening room from scratch. He is starting with a room and converting it to a listening room. I did actually build a listening room from scratch , a detached purpose built room from the foundations up. There is a lot of planning and time involved in areas not even mentiond in the video. Also a lot of the ideas/info given in the video are not based on actual facts , just personal likes.

[@sunflowerisland]

WHERE'S THE FOLLOW UP VIDEO OF THIS VIDEO?????

[@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac]

It will happen, but the room is not finished

[@danwheetman6914]

More Herb!

[@anystereo]

Building code probably requires the use of GWB on the wood studs. It looks like a heavy timber building. Best to check with a professional

[@karpen]

Great vid Steve. A somewhat related question.. What if any is the sonic impact of having multiple (4) acoustic guitars on stands in the listening area?

[@carlitomelon4610]

Just damp the strings when you're not playing;-)

[@karpen]

@@carlitomelon4610 Yes! All 24!

[@carlitomelon4610]

@@karpen good man! Don't forget to play😉

[@jimgroce9487]

I’ve done this mostly because the guitars are kept in the same room with the system. Once I had one of the guitars tuned to open G and it happened to compliment the record I was playing. Fun!

[@karpen]

@@jimgroce9487 It's sympathetic vibes from Keith Richards!

[@artkulak9802]

What I'd like to know is how Herb intends to hang those kittens on the wall.

[@Cocteau61]

on tiny wire brads into into 0.7mm drilled holes in the mortar

[@Secession1900]

15'x30' width x length is not a good idea. A simple 2:1 ratio will make room modes stronger. Mr. Wexler needs to read up on ideal room ratios. Different investigators have come up with different ratios, so it is difficult to say what is best, but all advise against dimensions that would create a build-up of harmonics like 2:1. Dolby Labs advises a ratio of 1.55:1. On the plus side, the ability to stuff fiberglass between the joists is a huge advantage for this listening space.

[@sjohnston1487]

As good clean stable electrical you can get

[@newardthelman6871]

And the Yiddish word which you spell as "tsiastkie" is derived almost unchanged from the Ukrainian цяцки, pronounced "chachkih", with the final sylable "kih" pronounced with a short i, as in the word "it", or "lit".

[@pickyaudiophile]

Indeed. It's important to make it clear it's a short i, speakers of "unitary i phoneme" languages like e/g Russian wouldn't understand that otherwise. Regards and Smert' Vorogam!

[@dinkjs]

Nothing like 3 Yenta’s conversing about nothing

[@adamwexler8898]

Oy vey